Hello,

I recently purchased a home on the 12th(all papers signed sealed, etc). The home is heated by electric and wood. A propane tank is used for the stove and water heater. The purchase agreement did not specify any particulars, yet on the 26th, the prior owner contacted the propane tank company (the company who supplies the propane and the leased tank) to have the gas reimbursed. On the 8th of the next month, I arrived home to find the propane tank disconnected (I was not given any notice by the prior owner or the propane company). I contacted the propane company and found out the owner had requested a reimbursement from the propane within the tank.
The gas company representative said is is standard practice to automatically refund the gas to the prior account. They stated quite the opposite that the home purchase agreement must state that gas transfers over to me.
Is it not true that unless otherwise specified within the purchase agreement, that ownership of anything on that property would become mine? I was without hot water and a stove for 8 days and am looking into suing the prior owner for the price of the full tank of propane and loss of comfort for not being able to shower, cook my food, do laundry, or have hot water on the premises.

Thank you for reading this. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Most contract for sale of reality property covers this, re-read the contract for sale. IF nothing in the contract than after the sale the propane belongs to the new owner.

Thank you for your quick response. I reviewed the paperwork on the purchase of the home, the only thing specifically specified in the purchase agreement was a lawnmower, a canoe and several speficications of the prior owner removing old paint from the workshop.
Should I look for anything else in the purchase agreement?

Generally, at the closing the purchaser reimburses the seller for any oil in the tank or similar. So the first thing to do is contact the attorney who represented you at closing to see if this was done. With the bewildering amount of paperwork being signed and checks written at a closing it wouldn't be hard to forget or overlook it.

I'm not sure, however, whether you have a case against the former owner. But you may have one against the propane company. The former owner, request for a reimbursement might not be out of line. But the propane company should not have disconnected the tank. There was no call for that. They should have been able to take a tank reading without disconnecting.

On the other hand, I'm disturbed by the timing. You closed on the 12th, did you take possession that day? Did the previous owner actually move on or before the, or after the 12th. For the previous owner to wait 2 weeks after you took possession seems a long time. I doubt if the propane company could task a reading on a daily basis. That means, he would be getting reimbursed for 2 weeks during which you owned the home.

I think you may have a cause of action against both parties, but you need to quantify this. You need to put a monetary value on the loss of services and then sue for that. Did you keep receipts for the meals you had to eat out because you couldn't cook? Or the laundry costs for going to the laundromat?

Thanks again for responding so quickly. All of your opinions are greatly appreciated!

Nothing was specified at all regarding reimbursement of propane. The propane was purchased by the prior owner and physcially resided on the land after puchase.
I literally took ownership on the 12th. The house was vacant for months(he acquired the house from his parents, he lives in another state). That day the prior owner called the gas company and said "ownership of the land is transferred, he will be calling in to have the propane acct transferred"

On the 26th he called again to demand his money back for the propane.

Without any notice by his realtor or the gas company, they disconnected it on the 8th of the next month. Mind you, the propane in the tank was already paid for by the prior owner so he was not being charged anything additionally. I do have my visa account for any food charges. Luckily my family lives about 20 miles away and I was able to do laundry. I think I can quantify acceptable costs to the judge if requested. Loss of comfort is another thing as well as verbal/written abuse by the prior owner that went through both realtors (he sent a nasty email with name calling etc and actually said to forward it to me.. it went through his realtor, to mine, and then to me).

I still think you have a greater beef with the propane company. They were informed that the account was going to be transferred (did you transfer the acct?) For them to disconnect and then wait 8 days to reconnect is unconscionable. The only thing the previous owner did wrong was to try and get reimbursment 2 weeks after he turned over the property. You could have had the tank refilled at that point and he would be getting reimbursement for gas you paid for. I dobut if he requested disconnection, that was a mistake made by the propane provider.

I transferred the account the day after they disconnected it(had to wait after the weekend the company was not open). Which was Nov 8th. Gas rehooked up on the 16th. That's the earliest time the gas company said they could reconnect it.

I would think that some stipulation should have been made by the prior owner that purchased propane would be reimbursed backed to him and that I would have to refill the tank myself in some form or fashion whether its his propane company or one I choose... lets say hypothetically that this was the case.. I should, in all fairness be given ample time to find another propvider and also have the current tank removed by his contracted propane company. No time or information was provided by the prior owner

Ahh, now the fly in the ointment comes out. You took possession on the 12th and did not make any effort to transfer the account until they disconnected you? Your case just got a WHOLE lot weaker.

Lets look at this from the Propane company's point of view. Former owner contacts them on the 26th and asks; "why haven't I gotten my reimbursement yet? I called you on the 12th and told you the land had been transferred." Now, another 2 weeks have passed and the propane company hasn't gotten any request to transfer the account. So maybe they figure you aren't going to transfer the account and disconnect.

So I'm no longer sure you have much of a case here. I would send the propane company an estimate of your expenses and see if they will pay. But if they don't pay, I would let it drop.

In some aspect I disagree. The propane that I would conclude is my property should not have been touched until I transfer it. No specific instructions in the purchase agreement gave the prior owner the right to take the propane out of the tank beause any said item on that property became mine the day we finished writing up the purchase agreement unless otherwise stipulated. Hence the propane was owned by me, not the prior owner, and he has no basis for requesting money back on something he does not own.

Also, there is no stipulation anywhere that I know of that says I must transfer an account within a certain amount of time. The prior owner was not charged anything during the time that I took ownershi of the property and the day I transferred the account else I would gladly reimburse that to the prior owner but that is not the case.

Propane isn't like electricity where it is stored off the actual property itself, so I would contend that the ownership of anything purchased for that property became mine. There was wood for the fireplace on the property for heating, that became mine too, it is an implement of a utility.. just like he cannot request reimbursement of the wood as a utility resource... am I far off?

Not necessarily. I agree, he should have put reimbursement for the propane into the contract so he was paid at closing. That's how I handled the oil in the tank when I have sold and purchased homes. But maybe he didn't know better and figured it was understood. I'm not saying he was right in asking for reimbursement, but I don't see it as an actionable offense.

I'm not sure how propane companies work, but do you own the tank? Its possible they own the tank (you mentioned its removal). Generally, its understood that utilties should be transferred immediately. Almost a month is a long time.

So I really don't see you having a cause of action against either party.

Once again, thanks for the opinion, I do appreciate it.

I would think that "utility" isn't necessarily correct. It is not like electrcitiy where it is a constant source. The actual propane itself is physically on the property and not at the power grid where its not in possession of the owner. The tank is leased, but the lease had already been paid for by the owner which I have repaid for and wouldn't be suing for.
It's the actual gas that is mine. Also for failure to notify me as the new owner of his actions. I think it would be considered an actionable offense because because of his actions I was without laundry, hot shower and cooking for that amount of time. If I received a call or anything from his realtor saying "Hey..he called for reimbursement, you need to contact them now else your gas will be turned off" would be a different story, but that never happened.

Not quite. Unless you know exactly what he said to the propane company, you don't know his culpability. If he simply asked for reimbursement of what was in the tank as of the 12th then he was responsible for what the propane company did.

Its still a utility in the same way an oil company is. So you are leasing the tank from the propane company. Since you didn't transfer the account, they could have made the assumption you were going a different route.

I'm sorry, but under the circumstances I just don't think you have much of a case. It won't cost you much to go to small claims court so you don't have much to lose trying. But I think you will have a hard time proving wrong doing on the part of the propane company, let alone the previous owner.

Lots of propane tanks are rented from the company that furnishes and fills them. A home owner can not sell property that he does not own, and any beef should be with the former owner.

Lots of propane tanks are rented from the company that furnishes and fills them. A home owner can not sell property that he does not own, and any beef should be with the former owner.

I suspected that most propane companies lease the tanks, unlike with oil.

I don't understand how you can say "any beef should be with the former owner". The previous owner didn't disconnect the tank. Nor do we know what the previous owner said to the propane company. The previous owner appears to have been wrong in asking the propane company for reimbursement of what was in the tank as of the date of sale. That may have even been a contributing factor in the disconnection. But the propane company is the one responsible for thair actions. And, based on the info we've been given, they may have acted reasonably since several weeks went by with the new owner not transferring the account.

I would not take the requirement for the propane rebate to be required in the purchase contract that the gas representative told you as truth.

The tank belongs to the propane company and the gas still belongs to the seller. The tank is not a part of the real estate as propane companies don't want the liability of maintaining the tank so they often LEASE the tank to the property owner and then fill it for their use. With the break in the title, the tank lease is broken and the gas in that tank belongs to the old owner.

Your RE agent should have handled this better.

Excellent point. The prior owner had no idea and cannot assume that I would transfer the account to my name. I could have gone with another company! Ergo the propane was not his to be reimbursed.

Excellent point. The prior owner had no idea and cannot assume that I would transfer the account to my name. I could have gone with another company! Ergo the propane was not his to be reimbursed.

Actually CVille's point brings just the opposite conclusion. The lease for the tank was in the previous owner's name. Since that lease was never transferred, its still in his name. Ergo, he might still be considered the owner of the gas. If you chose to go to another company, then the old provider would reposses the tank. Since you had no relation with them, any gas left in the tank would belong to their leasee.

By not transferring the account into your name, you have pretty much given away any chance of recovery of damages. I suggest you write it off as a lesson learned and go on.

Since you now have the option of what compnay you want to provide you with fuel, call the company involved ask them their price and check with other companies in the area. You already have a bad taste for the one compnay, you may want to move to another.

Find the best deal>

Hello poor:

I think the propane is yours. It was within an attached appurtenance (the tank - which was attached) and should transfer to the buyer. Ok,, so, what are you going to do about it? Go after the realtor, the seller, the sellers realtor, the propane company, the two brokers??

Maybe you need to file a small claims action against ALL of 'em, and let the court sort it out. I would, because frankly, I can't tell who did you dirty.

excon

I have to disagree with excon here. If the tank was leased then it was NOT part of the property. It sat on the property as part of an implied easement to provide services. Therefore it doesn't follow that the contents of the tank would automatically transfer to the new owner.

You can file in small claims court, won't cost you much, but frankly, I think you will lose.

Hello again, Scott:

I'm not saying that the tank should transfer. Clearly, it should not. But ownership of the tank isn't the issue. Ownership of its contents are. Based upon your conclusion, he would own the propane if he owned the tank. Why would he not, because he doesn't own the tank?

excon

PS> (edited) The tank, no matter who owned it, WAS an attached appurtenance. The attachment does not give title to the tank, because it was leased. But I suggest that it does give title to the propane.

The tank, no matter who owned it, WAS an attached appurtenance. The attachment does not give title to the tank, because it was leased. But I suggest that it does give title to the propane.

The leasee would own the contents of the tank. They were leasing the tank for the purpose of storing the propane.

I understand your point and it might go either way in a court. But I'm trying to look at the whole picture here. The Propane company is notified of the change in ownership. The new owner has not entered into a lease arrangement with them for several weeks after transfer of ownership. They are reminded about the change in ownswershp after 2 weeks. More than another week has passed and they decide to disconnect in preparation of recovering the tank. Maybe they should have given notice first, but I can't see that they were not within their rights to protect their property (the tank). They could easily conclude that the new owner was stealing the propane since they did not pay for it.

So, given the full set of circumstances as we have been told it, I definitely don't think the previous owner is liable for anything and neither was the Propane company. Ergo the OP has no case.

The propane in the bank belongs to whoever paid for it - probably the seller- and the tank belongs to the propane/leasing company.

You need to reimburse the seller or get a new propane provider, have a new tank installed and fill it.

Ok, I live in the county and I guess it is a matter of what is considered standard procedures and what is normal and customary in your areas.

It is obvious that you must not have had experience with propane tanks.

The large tanks are normally never "owned" but are always rented and owned by the propane company. Most even have a sticker on them stating this.

And just because it is "on " your property it is not always yours, light poles, in the county outside lights on the poles still belong to the electric company many times ( although some are owned)

But gas in the tank would have belonged to the previous owner, and should have been addressed specificly in the sales contract, as to buying the balance, or having it taken out at purchase.

This was a oversite not covered, and it leaves it vague as to who owned the gas, The previous owner would have a written agreement with the gas company, he owed the gas according to his contract with the gas company.

You would have to pay a tank deposit most likely, a connection fee and a fee for the gas in the tank, This should have been expected, just like hooking up your electric, your water and the such, and should have been done from day one, just like you did the electric.

So I think this is a mistake you made by not understanding and not looking into the gas situation.

I see no case.

Hello again:

This has been an excellent discussion. I agree with everybody - the proposition is 50/50. It could go either way.

I think we all agree, that one of the two realtors (or maybe the escrow company?) failed in their fiduciary duty. I also think we agree that he has no case against the seller or the propane company (they owe him no fiduciary duty - although I'm not sure), but he does have a case against somebody.

Who?

excon

Yep, if the law was so clear cut that everyone had no debate over it, lawyers would be out of business, and since lawyers write the laws, they like things to have issues, ( talk about job security)

So your real claim, if there is one, would be the value of the gas that was left in the tank, not your fees to connect or fill the tank.

It may or may not be that much money to get to excieted over and should be able to be handled in small claims court.

Lets remember what the original question was. The OP was asking whether he could sue the seller for the problems he had with the tank being disconnected.

I think the answer is now clear and that answer is no. As Chuck pointed this should have been covered in the contract. As he also pointed out, the tank is owned by the Propane company so it contents do not necessarily go with the property.

But the REAL key is the tank being disconnected was a mostly a result of the OP not transferring the account to his name. So any losses suffered was due to his own inaction.

OP should have made a phone call to the propane company during the "due diligence" period of OP's purchase contract... yes, the propane co's name is on the tank and YES, just like fuel oil; buyer needs to pay for whatever has already been paid for by the seller.

OP should have caught this at the inspection
OP's Realtor should have had this acknowledged in the purchase agreement.
Escrow/closing should have had the propane "credit" figure to handle this at closing.