Was driving home the other day, stopped at a stopsign, took off and my car died. Now, about 3 days before I was in a wreck but it was minimal damage, and only bodu damage, so I didn't associate the two. Especially because it ran perfectly. Fuel pump comes on, all fuses are intact, no spark. I'm buying a test light today but I'm so poor right now its not even funny. Can someone please walk me through what to test? I'm pretty sure its my igniter because I used a 13w lightbulb to try and test see if it would light, and it didn't. This may be because they use different voltages? Not sure. But I have my distributor open ready to replace the ingniter if need be. Also, if the tachometer jumps when I try to start the car, wouldn't this mean the igniter is bad because the tach is connected to the igniter. Just a thought. Thanks guys! I'm really banking on your help because I'm 19 paying all my bills, school, and now this with my little Starbucks job :(

Nice job of analysis--I agree with everything you said. Here's how to replace the igniter:

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/cars-trucks/faq-how-troubleshoot-repair-maintain-hondas-selected-other-vehicles-46563-4.html#post265896

Tachometer jumping was a dead giveaway that the igniter is bad.

Follow these maintenance tips to avoid any big unexpected repair bill, while you are in school:

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/cars-trucks/faq-how-troubleshoot-repair-maintain-hondas-selected-other-vehicles-46563.html#post219991

If you take care of the engine and transmission, everything else is relatively minor.

I think I phrased it wrong, but if the tach DOESN'T jump when I crank, then that means the igniter is bad, correct?

Erratic tachometer rpm is often a sign that the igniter is bad. I don't think the tachometer will show starter motor cranking rpm.

If your CEL goes on and off normally, when you turn the ignition switch to ON (Position II), then the lack of spark is distributor-related. Usually, the problem is caused by a bad igniter or coil. If you replace those components and the problem persists, the distributor housing (genuine Honda only) needs replacing because one or more internal sensors (CKP, TDC, or CYL) are bad.

Ok let me go test a few things, thanks for the help bro

Ok, the CEL comes on for roughly 1-2 seconds as the fuel pump initiates, then the CEL goes off right when I hear the fuel pump click off(?) Not sure if its clicking "off" necessarily.

Update: OK I've taken all of the little components off and I can now access the screw on top of the ICM and the two small screws under it. I stripped about 3 screws so far, and one was in such a horrible place, it was under that little black magnet, it took me FOUR HOURS to get it out due to its lame location. I don't want to strip these two little screws but I almost did and it is about to be dark out. I've never in my life had so much trouble with screws!! Help is appreciated :)

I use precision tip screwdrivers--it makes a difference. See if a friend has one of the omnipresent bit driver sets--they have nicely machined tips that will work.

How about I just pick a set up when I get paid this Friday, might as well. But, I had a question, when an ICM goes bad, what happens to it specifically. If its something on the circuitboard that can be resoldered or a busted capacitor, I could fix that. What exactly goes "bad" on them?

The microchip inside gets damaged from heat and electron migration. Here's a picture of what they look like inside:

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/cars-trucks/faq-honda-civic-wont-start-read-here-before-you-post-9924.html

They are very problematic components. ICMs are electronic "points," which are responsible for opening and closing the primary circuit to the coil. When this happens, voltage increases in the secondary circuit of the coil (step-up transformer) and the plugs fire. When they start to fail, they no longer "fire" when the ECM directs and precise timing is lost.

In the old days, points had to be replaced every 15,000 miles. Now, ICMs need to be replaced around every 120,000 miles.

Hmm OK, seems like a lot of common problems are heat related. When I reattach the heatsink to my new ICM I will make sure my thermal compound is a good brand and applied well. And for all reading this, the prolong the life of your ICM GREATLY, then use a good thermal compound to transfer heat from the circuit board to the heatskink/heat spreader. It does matter!! And always look up how to properly apply the thermal compound. Building computers for 10 years has really made this very evident for me. And this thermal compound is very very cheap. Comes in a small tube for just a few dollars.

A seemingly small, but very important step.

And I forgot to mention. Best heat transfer has taken place with a thermal compound called arctic silver 5. Super cheap, look up reviews online and such. And thanks for all the help guys!

Here is my current roadblock, lol. Everything iis removed from the distributor except the ICM itself, I can't get those 2 little screws out. I even bought a precision tip screwdriver, but to no avail. Would PB Blaster be a sure way to solve this problem?

Yes, try applying PB Blaster several times and let it soak. With a true precision tip screwdriver, place enough downward pressure on the screw head to keep from buggering the head. Stand directly over it. Have a friend hold it on the floor while you are doing this.

Have a friend hold it on the floor? Its still in my car lol.

You have to remove the heat sink and ICM from the distributor first. I thought you were talking about the two screws mounting the ICM to the heat sink. I see where you are, now.

You might find it easier to do the job if you remove the distributor from the engine. Be sure to mark the distributor housing and bracket, for timing to be fairly close later.

This link may help:

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/cars-trucks/faq-how-troubleshoot-repair-maintain-hondas-selected-other-vehicles-46563-4.html#post288473

Ok so should it just slide out then? It seems that way, there were two screws holding the bracket on that held the magnet. Then there were three holding like a metal bracket and I thought it would just slide out but I couldn't get it to.

After you remove the two screws holding the heat sink to the distributor housing, the heat sink-ICM assembly comes out.

I don't quite understand step 6 in that guide. Id that referring to the plug part?

After you remove the two screws holding the heat sink to the distributor housing, the heat sink-ICM assembly comes out.

Been trying to find a picture, bud can't find a good one that shows this specifically. Lol gimme a minute.

Step 6.

Yes, there's a "tower," where connectors from the distributor come together. The point is to figure out how the connectors come apart first. Don't just start prying on them or they may break. Remove them from the mount (tower) first and then they should just come apart.

I'm trying to understand but I think you are losing me with the word tower. I'm trying to find a good picture, if you have one that'd be great! And thanks again for the help. We're making progress. My goal is to know this thing inside and out by the time Friday comes when I get paid. I need to be back on the road asap! :)

Towers are where two or more connectors are stacked together on a mount.

The important thing is that you may find all of this easier if you remove the distributor from the engine and place it on a desk and work on it. Many times, that's how I prefer to work on things. It allows you to do a perfect job.

When the distributor bearings failed on my Honda, I completely removed the distributor from the engine and carefully replaced the ICM and coil from the old distributor into the new Honda housing. It saves your back.

Okay I'm going to go take it out now. Thanks!

Okay, got it out of my car and on my desk. I'm trying to remove the two screws on the distributer housing connected to the heatsink and one of them are too badly stripped. :( I can fix that Friday but until then I want to buy all new screws and bolts for the distributor. How would I do this, autozone? Also, how do I reset the timing? I marked on the housing but that only gets it close, right? Thanks.

Your final exam this semester involves replacing the ICM in your distributor. You are only allowed 45 minutes.

Yes. If you marked it with a scribe, that should work just fine. You can place a timing light on it if you want, but it won't be really necessary. Honda might be the best place to get replacement screws or your local FASTENAL store.

Haha yeah this has been a good little project.

I'm going to check on all this, but as for timing how precise does it have to be? Also, I've noticed that on my distributor cap the contacts inside are a tad corroded. Can I use coke on a swab to clean these? Or are they permanently damaged calling for a new distributor cap?

How many miles are on your Civic?

If you accurately placed a straight scribe mark across the housing and bracket, you shouldn't need to use a timing light.

150k

Amazing. My distributor sounded like a thrashing machine at 95,000 miles. You should probably replace the distributor cap--I recommend BWD caps from O'Reilly Auto Parts. They have brass contacts inside, instead of aluminum, and come with a lifetime warranty--cheaper, too. Since you are short of money, however, there's no rush.

The corrosion is not like battery acid--it won't respond to Coke. Best thing to do is just replace the cap later.

Spray the new machine screws with WD-40, before you install them. It will help with any corrosion.

Did you get the heat sink out?

Yeah this car purrs I love it, the body is gorgeous too besides my front fender from the wreck :(

But definitely will pick up the cap.

And I'm curious now since I've dealt with this problem. When I used to take off in 1st gear it would sputter, and even worse, when I took off in 2nd. It wasn't all the time, though. Was this a sign of my ICM going bad?o

No I never got the heat sink out. I haven't gotten the ICM out of the housing. I stripped a screw and I am going to borrow my neighbor's dremel later to cut a notch so I can get it out. I see now how to do it now though so that's not a problem

Yes, that was likely caused by the ICM breaking down. They are problem-prone parts. Look at all that have been replaced at AMHD--several a day. This is "bread and butter" business for most Honda dealerships--likely several a day.

Especially since you are a struggling college student, be sure to use SAE 5W-30 full-synthetic engine oil in your Civic. Change it every 6 months or 6,000 miles, whichever comes first. This is to help you avoid the big unexpected repair bill. Here are some other tips that will save you a ton of money:

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/cars-trucks/faq-how-troubleshoot-repair-maintain-hondas-selected-other-vehicles-46563.html#post219991

It's all about playing good "defense" with your wallet.

Lol OK, so after I fix this, I have one more payment on the car then I want to start doing preventative replacement on more of these "bread and butter" parts.

Start a Maintenance Log for your car--Date, Mileage, Work Performed. Keep it on Microsoft Word. It will save you time and money.

Mmk, so, brilliance has found its way into my mechanical skills once again! Lol when I marked the rotor position, I apparently used a marker that is wiped away easily. So now my positioning is lost, but, I think I have the right idea on this I think, from things I've read.

To set the timing right, I can pull out the #1 spark plug, and see down to the #1 piston. Would I be able to turn the engine myself and get the piston in the highest position then point the rotor towards the contact in my distributor cap for the #1 spark plug wire?

I wasn't sure how to phrase this for Google to give me a good answer lol.

No, you don't need to do that or go that direction at all. Just replace the distributor and center the top mounting bolt in the slot and you should be able to get it starter with little trouble. You can set the timing very close by ear--you can tell how it sounds, runs, and performs. Later, you can get an induction timing light and set it spot on.

Well, I have spun the rotor accidentally when working on it on my desk, wouldn't that cause problems even starting the car? Once started I know how to adjust (thanks to one of your many amazing guides) but I thought it would have trouble.

Makes no difference, since, because of the brilliant offset shaft, it cannot be installed incorrectly. You're safe!

You'll see this in action, when you install the distributor. Then, you'll have to rotate the rotor, until the offset shaft on the distributor mates with the offset shaft on the camshaft.

Amazing! Love import cars! I'm finding all of these cool little things on imports, I used to be a chevy dude :) oh how I'm in love with my honda haha.

I love my Civic. However, I've never met a car or truck that I didn't love. Here's a little tid bit for you. Besides my 1993 Civic I own a 2000 Taurus with the 3.0L DOHC engine. The Taurus is really a fully-loaded Civic. Many engineering features are similar. In fact, when they are next to each other in the garage, their shapes are so similar it's scary. One is white the other is British Racing Green.

Okay, so I am having to wait until Friday to buy my new ICM but I've been reading everything I can get my hands on about this car. So you told me about how to get my timing close, but I was reading your guide and I think I can get my hands on a timing light pretty easily. Thing is, at the end of your guide you only have the d16z6 listed, would my d16y8 be the same steps?

I don't know how many degrees BTDC your car should be set at. It's also important to set the idle rpm first, when the engine is at normal operating temperature. There also is not a Service Check Connector to jump. You need to find out those specs.

Okay. I'm just a little fuzzy on a few details here. When I reinstall my distributor how accurate will the timing be? And upon installation and setting idle speed would that be good enough? And I don't understand what you meant by adjusting the timing by ear.

Through experience, I can set the timing on my Civic by ear. In fact, where the timing is now is slightly retarded from where the timing light set it. I did this because it runs better, particularly with the air conditioner on in the hot Texas summers.

Once you install your distributor, with the three mounting bolts in place, you will be able to rotate it counter-clockwise and clockwise to advance or retard the timing. You will know when it's about right, particularly when you drive it. If need be, through trial and error, you will find where it runs best; then, take a straight-edge and a scribe and mark a horizontal line on the distributor housing and mount.

Do you have a manual transmission?

Great description, that's what I thought but I had a mechanic give me some ridiculous explanation. Okay, and I live in Texas as well lol, so a slight retardation in the timing might be in line with spring approaching?

And no my car is automatic unfortunately. I am craving so bad to do a 5 speed swap but there are financial constraints :) soon enough though, soon enough :)

In my opinion, you want to keep your ATX. The ramifications on the ECM, wiring harness, lack of clutch, and more are horrific. Instead, I'd drain the tranny and add Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF. It will only take several quarts and the performance will improve markedly.

That is such a bummer to hear :/ but I'll definitely do that. Any chance of a solid way to do a swap?

Nope. If you studied the histories of people on this site who have tried engine and tranny swaps, you would leave well-enough alone. There's a lot more to it than most people realize.

If you follow the maintenance recommendations I gave you, your Civic should go 350,000 miles.

What outfit are you going to buy your igniter from? I ask because this link may save you a little money:

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/matt9229/AdvanceAutoParts5-off-25coupon.jpg?t=1263325595

I was going to go with autozone, but I'll check with advanced auto parts and see what their prices are.

Shop for price and lifetime warranty. They will match each other's price.

Ok got my ICM and I was putting things back together when I may have run into a snag. The screws that connect the heatsink to the igniter seem to thread and fit fine on the heatsink portion but when they travel through the igniter holes they are much too small, and I don't think I see threads at all. Is this right? Because basical the screws hold it in place but the heatsink is just sitting right on the igniter. I know this is a must in computers, but most people don't shake their computers when they are running :) just wanted to double check.

There shouldn't be threads on the igniter--just two holes. This allows the igniter to fasten securely to the heat sink. If the igniter's holes were threaded, it would not work. This is an important point and lesson for you. The holes in the original igniter were not threaded, either. You don't want the piece you are mounting to have threads--it won't tighten as much otherwise. This is a basic mechanical engineering principle.

That's what I thought, but this heatsink stays connected to the frame of the distributor, where the igniter will detach. It holds it in place, as in pegs in a hold, but it doesn't fasten down to the igniter. This is correct?

Isn't the new igniter identical to the old one? The #2 Phillips cap head machine screws should not pull through the holes in the igniter.

It should look like this:

AutoZone.com | | Control Module - Ignition | CONTROL MODULE (http://www.autozone.com/autozone/catalog/parts/partsProduct.jsp?itemIdentifier=167626_0_0_&skuDescription=Duralast+/+Control+Module+-+Ignition&brandName=Duralast&displayName=Control+Module+-+Ignition&categoryNValue=15799999&sortType=&store=1264&isSearchByPartNumber=false&fromWhere=&fromString=search&counter=0&itemId=29-0&navValue=15700029&filterByKeyWord=control+module&productId=167626&searchText=control+module&categoryDisplayName=Electrical+%26+Lighting&parentId=57-0)

Problem solved I'm retarded lol. So now, the 4 prongs coming off the ICM where the wires attach, will that one on the side have a wire connected to it?

Only 15 min. left on your lab class final--then, all tools will be taken away.

I believe the one on the right side goes to the BLU wire (tachometer).

After the igniter and heat sink are installed in the distributor:

YEL/GRN wire goes to the male terminal on the left.

BLK/YEL wire goes to the center male terminal.

WHT/BLU wire from the coil goes to the male terminal on the right.

A failure of epic proportion. I broke off a screw that holds the wire connector down on the coil. I have no clue what to do. Its inside the hole, broken. :( :( :(

Did you tighten it too much?

Ya, but it didn't even go down far enough to hit the metal contact. And the screw is the same one that came out of it.

You may need to buy a new coil and screw.

First, try removing the coil from the distributor, by removing the two mounting screws. Then, take a small jeweler's screwdriver and see if you can ease the sheared-off screw out, as you apply pressure. If you do it right, you should be able to get it out.

It broke the head off the screw. Ahjsuerhjaskrg I can't explain my frustration. I have no money for a coil :(

See if my approach works or take a strong needle or awl and see if you can work it out--you should be able to. This is a time for you to be creative. Once it starts to come, you should be able to get out.

Well its too soft, I cut a notch with my dremel pretty deep, got a flathead in there and it just bent the screw and my notch had disappeared as if it were made of clay.

Ask you friend, who has the Dremel Tool, to cut a very small channel across the sheared-off screw. Use a small screwdriver to then back it out.

See if a salvage yard will sell you a coil for a couple of bucks--just ensure it's the right one.

Yeah I'm going to check salvage yards. I have it on VERY snug with a little lock-tie thing. Its sitting fine, but only temporary.

Now, where would the tach wire be to plug into the ICM. I seem to have lost it

Other than that, is everything else reinstalled in the distributor and ready to go?

The tach wire should be inside the distributor. It may have fallen beneath the igniter/heat sink.

Take your old coil to a mechanically inclined friend and ask him for help.

Now, where would the tach wire be to plug into the ICM. I seem to have lost it

It should be a blue wire.

But where does the tach wire come from? I can't seem to find it >:(

Also, I have everything in the car, lined it up, tried to start it. Nope! Lol maybe because the tach wire? But I pulled out my test light and both contacts on the coil will light, but all of the contacts on the igniter will not light. What does this mean?

The tach wire should not be the problem. Review how you have the three other wires attached. Did you have the negative battery cable off while you installed everything? The coil connection is likely so poor that it doesn't work properly.

No the negative cable wasn't off, would this fry something? Let me recheck wiring.

And the coil connection is actually pretty good. But, doesn't the coil's power come from the igniter? Why are the contacts on the coil testing fine but not the igniter?

You never know.

:O I'm stumped..

No. The igniter is like a switch that opens and closes power going to the coil. The coil is a simple step-up transformer and this build-up and collapse of the magnetic field by the igniter is what converts 12v DC to 35,000v. The ICM opens and closes the current, however, precisely when the ECM directs.

I think if you get everything hooked up properly and securely that the engine will start, when the ignition switch is turned to START. Obviously, the leak cover, rotor, and distributor cap need to be on.

So what should I test? Just re-did wiring, put it back in, to no avail.

I usually recommend replacing the ICM and coil together. It's possible the coil is what was bad.

All right, I'm going to cruise some junkyards in a minute. Sigh.. but I'm pretty sure my icm was bad too.it had a big crack/gash on the back side and a burn mark

That's likely true. They are crammed in that distributor together and they both experience very intense heat.

Don't give up.. . victory is very close!

Is there no way to test and check for sure to make sure its one or the other? I can't keep doing guess and check work :( no $$

Coil Test.

1. Remove the two screws to disconnect the BLK/YEL and WHT/BLU wires from terminals A (+) and B (-), respectively.

2. Measure resistance (ohms) between the terminals. Replace coil if the resistance is not with specifications. Primary Winding Resistance (between A and B terminals) should be 0.6 to 0.8 ohms. Secondary Winding Resistance (between A and secondary winding terminals) should be 12.8 to 19.2 k-ohms.

My experience is that bench testing ICM and coils is not reliable. They don't simulate the heat that is generated under load. They may bench test OK but not work at all. I've seen that many times.

Normally, if they bench test as bad, they are really bad. However, if they bench test as OK, they may or may not really be any good. So there's a little bit of value to it.

Here's the deal, just found a full distributor at the junkyard for 55, came of the same car totalled at 110k miles.

Cars can be expensive, which is why some of us get into preventive maintenance (especially for engines and transmissions). Otherwise, you had better have deep pockets.

Can you return your ICM? I don't want to spend your money so you have to decide. If you go that route, keep your old distributor.

I'm keeping my old one and all the parts, I just can't afford the new coil and the junkyards will only sell the whole distributor. So for now, to get back on the road, I'm buying this one. But I'm not stopping there lol.

Ok so the distributor is in, and I have spark! Tried to start up my engine, it almost started but struggled a lot.

Oops hit 'post' on accident, but yeah, what do you think I've done wrong?

The timing is too retarded--rotate the distributor more counter-clockwise.

Ah I've been so busy today. Finally got it though! Its been awesome!

So a few questions though, how do I set the idle speed? Its sitting ~100 and sounds like it might die sometimes. Not to bad but I want to get it ~700

Did you try advancing the timing by rotating the distributor housing counter-clockwise?

Yes but I don't know if its right. Is that the only way to change the idle speed?

Since your Civic was probably idling fine before you removed the distributor (around 700 rpm), I would rotate the housing counter-clockwise until the rpm is about 700. Then, allow the car to reach normal operating temperature, get your friend's induction timing light, and set it to spec, which you need to find out.

Use your common sense on this, but I expect your idle rpm is so low right now because the timing is retarded. Again, you should be able to tell by ear when it sounds right and performs well. After you get it set correctly, remember to tighten the three mounting bolts.

Awesome! Now I get to start my maintenance so this doesn't happen again. :)

And I'm idling perfectly, 700 on the money. Flawless timing. Pretty awesome.

How does the car perform?

Its great, but my rpm seems to be a little low at idle still, where the engine takes a bit longer on takeoff. Should I adjust the idle speed specifically or rotate my distributor more? The timing sounds pretty flawless though.

Sounds like the timing needs to be advanced even more. Don't touch the idle speed, yet.

Now, it's time to borrow your friend's timing light and check things out.

Well when I judge my idle speed, are we talking about when the car is cold or warm? Just want to clarify.

Normal operating temperature--fully warmed up.

Awesome, everything is great :)

Did you put a strobe light on it?

Couldn't get ahold of one, but I took it to a shop I had visited before and the guy remembered me and checked it for free. He even complimented me on the distributor haha - total confidence boost.