PDA

View Full Version : Two Intermittant Problems


jam7340
Jan 5, 2010, 09:34 AM
I've noticed two problems with my heating system, but not sure if they are related. Here's the background - sorry for being so long winded.

Background:
I have a Weil-Mclain Gold CGi Series 2 (which was probably installed in the 2002/2003 time frame). I have four zones:
Zone 1 - main floor
Zone 2 - upstairs (bedrooms)
Zone 3 - indirect water heater
Zone4 - radiant floor in the kitchen

I also use Honeywell programmable thermostats for zones 1 and 2, and a manual thermostat for zone 4.

At night, the temperature for zone 1 (downstairs) is programmed to drop from 66 to 62 and zone 2 is set for 66.

Problem 1:
On at least 3 or 4 occasions now in the last month, right before bed, I do a final check and have noticed zone 2 (upstairs) drop to as low as 63 (about 1 degree higher than downstairs), even though it is set for 66. My guess is that it is no longer switching on, but the downstairs heat is rising and keeping it at 63. Switching the thermostat from heat to off and then back to heat again seems to reset it and all seems to work fine for the rest of the night - with one exception...

Problem 2:
Again, not sure if this is related or not, but since my bedroom is above the furnace room, I can hear the furnace blower when it turns on, and several times now, I've heard it cycle on for about 10 or 15 seconds, then off, then on. It does this 3 or 4 times before finally cycling on and staying on for several minutes. The following morning, when zone 1 starts requesting heat, I don't notice this cycling problem anymore.

Any thoughts?

hvac1000
Jan 5, 2010, 10:08 AM
Sounds like you have control/thermostat problems. You will be better served by a on site visit from your local HVAC professional since these intermittent problems cannot be diagnosed here due to the fact that a much closer examination of the system is necessary than can be accomplished on this site. Sorry but it is all guess work with this kind of problem unless you are at the unit and perform proper control testing.

You seem to like to micro manage your system and that is good that you notice these problems but unless the fault is pronounced we do not know exactly what direction to send you in to come to a conclusion for your problems.

jam7340
Jan 6, 2010, 11:38 AM
UPDATE:

HVAC guy came out today. Felt it was a sticky relay in the air handler and replaced it. Items leading to this decision were:

1. Boiler appeared to be working since other zones were not having any problems (though the occasional cycling of the boiler is still a mystery)

2. Hot water was getting to the air handler - so the pumps were working as well.

3. Air was not blowing from the handler when it should have been. Turning the stat to manual fan would begin blowing hot air, but when set to auto - sometimes would work, sometimes wouldn't

4. Turning stat off and back on would sometimes fix the problem - probably because it would reset the relay.

Regarding the boiler cycling issue - recommended a boiler cleaning and keeping an eye on it to see if the flame sensor is going bad.

hvac1000
Jan 6, 2010, 03:28 PM
Thanks for the update. It was in the control system/thermostat so my guess was correct. It was a smart move on your part to call for on site service and get fixed. It is cold out side. LOL

jam7340
Jan 8, 2010, 11:29 AM
I do need to vent for a moment. As I researched this problem further, I've come to realize that the fan relay is a fairly cheap device and probably fairly easy to install. However, to fix this problem, I was charged $65 for the service call, and another $250 for the part. Is it just me, or does this sound completely unreasonable?

hvac1000
Jan 8, 2010, 11:43 AM
I do understand your feelings in this situation but it is expensive to be in the HVAC biz today. As to mark up or costs of business, keep in mind a quality contractor that will be there for you when you need him may have some or all of the following business expenses:

Not limited to;

401K
Coffee
Health Insurance
Holiday Pay
Office Benefits
Sick Pay
Uniforms
Vacation Pay
Air Conditioning Equipment Maintenance
Building Repairs
Cleaning Service
Electric Utilities
Facility Mortgage Payments
Furniture
Gas/Oil Bill
Landscaping
Office Rent
Parts Storage Racks
Security System
Shop Tools
Callbacks
Miscellaneous Hardware
Air Conditioning License
Answering Service
Bad Debt
Business Licenses
Cash Reserves
Certification Tests
Chamber of Commerce Dues
Collections
Company Picnic
Dealer Meetings
Employment Testing
Help Wanted Advertising
Interest Expense
Internet Access
Inventory
Inventory Shrinkage
Invoices
Legal Services
Liability Insurance
Management Training
Mobile Phone Charges
Mobile Phones
Office Training
Pagers
Property Insurance
Recycling
Subscriptions
Tax preparation
Technician Training
Trade Association Membership
Brochures
Charitable Contributions
Customer Satisfaction Surveys
Door Hangers
Home And Garden Shows
Magnets
Newsletter
Newspaper Advertising
Other Advertising
Outdoor Advertising
Patches
Radio Advertising
Sales Commissions
Warranties
Website
Yellow Pages
Youth Sports Team Sponsorships
Accounting
Calculators And Adding Machines
Computer System Maintenance
Computers
Copier
Copies
Fax Machine
Files And File Cabinets
Network
Office Supplies
Phone Bill
Phone System
Postage
Postal Equipment
Printing
Software
Stamps And Pads
Telephone Bill
Telephone Equipment
Training Equipment
Trash And Disposal
Water Bill
Call Taker
Dispatcher
Employee Incentives
Employee Pay
Management
Office Staff
Receptionist
Technician Pay
Federal Taxes
Local School Taxes
Local Taxes
Municipal Property Tax
Other property Taxes
Sales Tax
Social Security Taxes
State Taxes
Unemployment Insurance
Worker's Comp
Gasoline
Ladders
Radios
Tires
Tools
Truck Decals
Truck Depreciation
Truck Insurance
Truck Inventory
Truck Ladder Racks
Truck Maintenance
Truck Shelves
Trucks
Profit
Tool Insurance
Truck Plates
Life Insurance
Equipment Insurance
Warranty Expenses
Code updates
Other trade book updates
Permits
Dental / Vision Insurance
Equipment Consumables
Inventory Tax
Research & Development