Okay. I've been single for a while and have been playing around on a dating site. I have gone on a few dates, but nothing much happened. Either I wasn't interested, or they weren't and I didn't really care.

So I was writing to this person who seemed neat but too far away. It felt safe, except that over a few days, we could not stop writing to each other. He called me last night and we talked for nearly 4 hours. He lives a thousand miles away. If he lived around here, I would certainly date him.

Why am I trying to make my life so difficult?

I feel confused and don't trust myself. Plus there is a lot I don't know about him, obviously. I don't really even know what my question is. I just wonder why I've let this go so far and if I should just follow along or pull back and be sensible. I just have that this-is-going-too-fast feeling. Except it's fun and exciting.

I have two kids still living with me, 16 and 20. My younger son has a year and half more of high school and lives half time with his father.

Help, AMHD friends!

If you like him you should tell him its moving to fast and that you would like to slow things down abit and see how things go.
Don't blow it out the water because he lives to far away

Just to reassure some of you, I do know what he does for a living and that he is for real and seems pretty straightforward and honest. It's not some scam or like that. But I don't remember ever talking to anybody on the phone for more than about 2 hours, in my whole life. Nor was he feeding me lines. It didn't feel like that.

If it's not feasible for one of you to move to your respective countries, then you might not be able to take this friendship to the next level since you would only be able to communicating online or by phone.

If you are looking for something more than a friendship, then try meeting more people in your area. Dating sites is an option, but I would suggest doing activities that you're interested in. By doing an activity (hobby, sport, volunteering, etc.) you would be sure to have something in common with the other person. So it would already make it easier to get along.

Thanks I wish and cookie monster. Just for the record, he is not in another country. Not sure if that matters. Just two different states in the US. And I met him on a dating site. I was volunteering all last year and didn't meet anyone. It's discouraging to look and look in your own area and not find anyone and then find someone who seems right but who is so far away. Of course, I want more than a friendship.

If he's willing to spend 4 hours with you on the phone, then he's has some interest in you too. Just keep talking to him and getting to know him better.

How far apart are the two States? Driving distance?

San Francisco Bay Area to Denver. I haven't measured it yet. A long way.
I think this is a distance it's cheaper to fly.

He seems EVEN more interested than I am, but I think sometimes men do that. Yes? I don't want to get confused about that.

I don't think you need to measure his interest level so soon. You haven't even met in person yet, so just keep getting to know each other better and go with the flow.

SF and Denver isn't too far. I think about 1-2 hour flight.

That is romantic if you fly all the way just to see the man that might be the right mach for you as for me I have the biggest question that I'm having problems with and don't know what to do. Yes men do that I don't know why but they do which is nice but just have a sit down with him and ask him how interrested he is about you that is what I would do if I had a guy.

The only trouble with long distant dating, is the distant. I have had it, and at some point, it all boils down to when and where it moves into a in person relationship.

At some point if it is going to be a real in person one, someone will have to move, In may case I sold a house, quit a job and moved to a new city with no job, and just LOVE to go to.

These type of things don't happen easy and for people who can't just step out in faith, it may never work

At some point if it is going to be a real in person one, someone will have to move, In may case I sold a house, quit a job and moved to a new city with no job, and just LOVE to go to.


I know it's different for everyone, but did that work out for you? Weren't you leaving behind friends?

The more you know about someone before you get into a relationship with them, the more comfortable you will be when it comes to transitioning into a relationship. Start with being friends with the guy and learn as much as you can about him. It could take months or years of friendship as, most guys and gals hide their negative qualities in the early stages of a relationship, and you want to know who the person really is. Observe him in different situations if you can. Ask him about his family so that you know how he treats his mom and/or sister.

Thanks for the feedback. I have asked about his family and have some mixed feelings. His mother was sick for many years and died when he was in his 20s. He has a father and two brothers. It seems like they are not that close.

He is close to his daughter who is 22 and he seems like a really good parent from what I can tell.

I think it might be better to meet him and get a sense of him in person rather than draw out a long distance friendship if there's something wrong when we actually meet. Is that unromantic? I can get a roundtrip flight for $130.

It's really easy for people to seem too good to be true at first or to sweep you off your feet. I've learned that here.

Everyone is "nice" at the beginning of a relationship. Show a little patience and he will show his true colors. Like I said, it could take months or years. Trust plays a big part. The more trust you gain, the more you will become honest with each other. It may be a good idea to meet him. Long distance relationships can work, but not for everybody. Go on a casual date, and see where things go.

I think it's a very romantic ideal to meet someone from hundreds of miles away and find that he may be someone that you could end up falling in love with. It used to happen years ago... when people actually communicated via letters and the postal service. It can happen... and it's very romantic!

I agree with your clear thinking that it's better to find out if you're compatible at the beginning of this "something" than waste the time getting to know each other over the distance and find out that you're not compatible.

That being said, I think you may want to make it a girls trip or something. Not that you'd have to have a chaperone, but that someone would be there if you needed it. It's kind of scary flying to see someone that you (honestly) are taking at face value.

Or, if you choose not to bring a girlfriend along, make sure that someone has your itinerary/hotel arrangements/etc before you go.

Good idea. Bring a couple girls along for support! It will take the pressure off you to come up with conversations out of thin air, and will probably relieve some of the awkwardness that there may be.

Thanks! This is exactly what I have been thinking. Even though he seems really nice on the phone, I just don't feel comfortable showing up alone in a strange city. To be honest, I'm getting cold feet.

I've been out of town for a few days and without internet (not in Denver).

So there have been some odd things and I don't know if they are red flags or not, but I'm starting to think they are. Here's one:

He has been really infatuated with me and we have talked every night which I am really enjoying. Two days ago he said he was taking his profile down from the dating site where we met. I obviously don't mind that. He also said he had been corresponding with several women and he told them he was not available now. Okay. BUT he said he had a preexisting date with someone he has never met for Friday (tomorrow) and he says the honorable thing to do is to meet her and tell her the situation. He brought it up, so I suggested he just tell her he is pursuing another relationship, but he said no. He has to meet with her.

I'm baffled by this. He is eagerly encouraging me to come visit, has offered to fly out here, has told me he Loves me (which just seems weird since we've never met! ), but he says he would be a terrible thing to email this woman and cancel their date. He equated that to "standing her up." He says he likes to do the right thing and this is very important to him

So why does a man need to meet a woman he's never met in order to tell her he cannot date her? :confused: Am I missing something? Over analyzing?

What do you guys think?

The guy could at least consider your opinion on the matter... it does seem like he's rushing. You really can't love (commitment, trust, the whole bag of chips) without truly knowing a person. Personally, I would be thinking the same thing you are thinking! If a guy I was interested in set up, and KEPT a date the day before he was supposed to go on a date with me, I would, honestly, not even bother. The guy is trying to make you feel great by telling you that he is in love and you are the only one he is seeing, but he isn't willing to give up a date with a woman who SHOULDN'T (by the way he's talking to you) stand a chance with him! This is a weird situation. You've already seen some red flags and you haven't met the guy yet. This one's up to you!

Hi Asking.

It's late and I'm tired so I have to admit that I didn't read all the other posts.

I have a few things to add. Starby (Starbuck8) and I were very good friends, talked on the phone every night, met on this site, never met in person.

Sneezy and I talk every day, met on this site, never met in person. He's a very good friend.

There are more.

In other words, give it a chance. Yes, the distance is a problem, but if you're enjoying the company, the talks, the flirting, then go for it.

You only live once. :)

I think you have to know if you have good instincts about people and if you trust yourself ,then let it progress on a natural basis.

I would not be exclusive at this point.

Its always good to keep your options open.

If you are interested in meeting like minded people in your immediate area ,here is a good link for you.

It's a cool site,not a dating site but a place to get together with people and do community activities,hobbies,all kinds of cool things.

Do something, Learn something, Share something, Change something - Meetup.com (http://www.meetup.com/)

Trust your own instincts. Do what feels natural to you. You don't need to force anything.

I do suggest that you meet in neutral settings the first few times you meet each other, at least until you've gotten to know him better in person.

It takes effort, patience and time to get to know each other and to build a higher comfort level. So instead of analyzing all his actions and talking about your situation with each other, I suggest that you spend that time continuing to know get to know each other better and enjoying the conversations. Let things flow naturally.

I don't feel like I have good instincts at all. That feels like my biggest problem. I have instincts and thoughts and they don't all agree and I don't know if any of them is a useful guide to anything. That's why I am here asking for some perspective. On the plus side, I feel a good connection to this man, but I felt that way about the man I married who turned out to be abusive. So that tells me nothing except that this phone friend is smart, funny, and determined to charm me. I'm totally charmed.

I think I tend to go along with things I have reservations about because, by definition, my instincts are no good until there's no avoiding the obvious so I let other people make decisions or sweep me along in a tide of enthusiasm.

How do I develop better instincts? Or recognize the ones I've got as legitimate. When is anxiety just anxiety and when is it a good instinct? I know I need to give it time and get to know him better, but I really hate the process of spending months waiting for someone to reveal their hidden flaws. I'm impatient, I guess.

Thanks for the meetup suggestion, artlady. I know about it but have not used it. I'll go look at it today.
Still confused...

You develop better instincts through experience. Whatever the outcome is in your situation, you'll definitely develop better instincts as it plays out. You also develop better instincts through trial and error.

You do sound impatient. If you feel that you have a good connection with this person, then continue to make that connection stronger.

If you feel uncomfortable, don't be afraid to speak up. As you may already know, keeping your thoughts inside can build fustration.

Thanks. I will talk to him.

I am about to turn 55 and I figure if I don't have any instincts about men by now I'm never going to have them. It's not that I don't have instincts but that I don't know which ones to trust. I go back and forth, like a squirrel in the road.

And when I try to talk to men about concerns it seems like they just tell me what they think I want to hear. And in the process of sharing my concerns they get to know me better and are better able to tell me what I want to hear, which just makes things harder for me to sort out. I wonder, is this genuine or just "dealing" with me?

But I do keep things inside too much. Even my mother used to say that when I was a kid. She'd tell me that I bottled things up and was "too eager to please." I don't seem to have changed much.

:)! Woof.

I just called him and had a good conversation. I feel better. Thanks for the help!

So he had his date of Friday and stayed out until 1 am. I think this first date lasted between 6 and 7 hours. Seems like a long time to me considering he was supposedly telling her he had found another relationship. I had asked him to call me afterward even if it was late, but he emailed briefly at 1 am to say he was too tired to talk to me.

Then I got really sick with the flu. He called yesterday afternoon and I told him that I was sad not to hear from him Friday night. He changed the subject. Then he told me that he had talked to his daughter about feeling hurt when she stood him up recently (I had advised him to tell her) and that she had instantly expressed remorse and apologized. He said it was a bonding experience and thanked me for suggesting that he be open about his feelings.

I then said, using his exact words to his daughter, "I felt hurt that you didn't call me on Friday." He started making excuses. I said, what did you daughter say when you told her you were hurt? And he told me. And then he acted confused by the conversation. I was beginning to feel really sick. I had a fever of 102, so I just said I was too tired to talk anymore and said good bye. He did not say good bye back, but I hung up anyway. He sent me an email later saying he was sorry he hurt my feelings.

But still, I am feeling like he wants me to be exclusive to him but rationalizes going out himself. In principle there's nothing wrong with him going out, it's the idea that it's a one time thing and that I should not go out even if he does. Based on my experience in other relationships, I am thinking that he'll have another reason next time. Or it will be something else that I can't make any sense of. I think I will not go to Denver but instead tell him he's welcome to visit here and stay in a motel. Going to Denver now feels like too much of an investment in the relationship.

Maybe I'm making too much of this. But it just feels like there is a disconnect between him telling me he's thinking about me all the time and the out 'til 1 am date.

He also made a point of putting her down, saying she was boring. I know this was intended to make me not feel threatened and insecure. But I don't feel insecure about that and it made me respect him less. It's such a cliché to reassure one woman by putting down the competition.

I guess that's what's happening, a fairly catastrophic breakdown in my respect for him. He also told me that he drank too much before she arrived (she was late) and earlier in the week, he told me that he drank a beer while driving. He tried to frame it as funny, but I didn't think it was funny. I guess I was a little surprised, shocked even. He's been through a lot in the last few years, and I'm sympathetic to that, but I'm sensing he's not ready for a stable relationship right now.

I think you're sensing right-and the way he drinks would be a red flag to me.
I most definitely wouldn't go to see this chap-if he comes to your city,fine,but it seems you're having second thoughts?

So he had his date of Friday and stayed out until 1 am. I think this first date lasted between 6 and 7 hours. Seems like a long time to me considering he was supposedly telling her he had found another relationship. I had asked him to call me afterward even if it was late, but he emailed briefly at 1 am to say he was too tired to talk to me.

Then I got really sick with the flu. He called yesterday afternoon and I told him that I was sad not to hear from him Friday night. He changed the subject. Then he told me that he had talked to his daughter about feeling hurt when she stood him up recently (I had advised him to tell her) and that she had instantly expressed remorse and apologized. He said it was a bonding experience and thanked me for suggesting that he be open about his feelings.

I then said, using his exact words to his daughter, "I felt hurt that you didn't call me on Friday." He started making excuses. I said, what did you daughter say when you told her you were hurt? And he told me. And then he acted confused by the conversation. I was beginning to feel really sick. I had a fever of 102, so I just said I was too tired to talk anymore and said good bye. He did not say good bye back, but I hung up anyway. He sent me an email later saying he was sorry he hurt my feelings.

But still, I am feeling like he wants me to be exclusive to him but rationalizes going out himself. In principle there's nothing wrong with him going out, it's the idea that it's a one time thing and that I should not go out even if he does. Based on my experience in other relationships, I am thinking that he'll have another reason next time. Or it will be something else that I can't make any sense of. I think I will not go to Denver but instead tell him he's welcome to visit here and stay in a motel. Going to Denver now feels like too much of an investment in the relationship.

Maybe I'm making too much of this. But it just feels like there is a disconnect between him telling me he's thinking about me all the time and the out 'til 1 am date.

He also made a point of putting her down, saying she was boring. I know this was intended to make me not feel threatened and insecure. But I don't feel insecure about that and it made me respect him less. It's such a cliche to reassure one woman by putting down the competition.

I guess that's what's happening, a fairly catastrophic breakdown in my respect for him. He also told me that he drank too much before she arrived (she was late) and earlier in the week, he told me that he drank a beer while driving. He tried to frame it as funny, but I didn't think it was funny. I guess I was a little surprised, shocked even. He's been through a lot in the last few years, and I'm sympathetic to that, but I'm sensing he's not ready for a stable relationship right now.

There are a few red flags here.The drinking being a big one and the idea that he is still on the dating circuit and then putting down his date is pretty lame too.

I think your instincts are right on the money and I think you are wise to proceed with caution. :):)

Don't jump the gun. You can find a guy like that around here. Be patient

Thank you! It is so helpful to get some feedback on this. You guys are great.

Yes. I'm having second thoughts. But I feel sad about that because I really enjoyed talking and corresponding with him. You want someone to be the one when they are so much fun. I guess I'm looking for a middle ground, so I can have more time to decide what to do.

Sometimes people aren't who we thought they were,and that is sad. Find your middle ground and make your mind up when you're ready.
I hope your flu's better.

I talked to him today briefly and he said he drank a lot Friday night, "and I never do that." He added that he drove home drunk. At least he's honest... But this is sounding pretty unlikely. :(

You shouldn't have to be made to feel that you are "accepting" things that you wouldn't normally accept in a man, just because he is a potential LDR.

Whenever I feel like I"m "lowering my standards" or "Well, normally I don't like that, but... ", I step back and re-evaluate.

You don't think it is acceptable that he drove "buzzed" (me neither), why should you have to lower your standards and accept it in him? You feel you "have" to because you don't really know him and it could all be a mistake...

I'd say go with your gut.

I totally agree with you about not going to Denver. Things changed when he stayed out until 1, got drunk, and didn't call when he said he would. He needs to work for your affection now. He needs to make this right if it's going to work out.

Don't lower your standards for anyone. You've become the amazing person you are because of those standards. :)

Yes,sorry that's not good news. Seems drinking and driving's a habit of his.
I'd say it's very unlikely.

There's a lot of warning signs that are clear in this guy. It sucks, but when you give up a guy for his cons, you're giving up all of his pros too, but sometimes it's got to be done. You don't want to keep a guy around because you think his pros discredit his cons.

See, your instincts are kicking in. Something does smell fishy when it sounds like he wants you to be exclusive, yet he's going out on a date.

I sounds to me that you're not on the same page. I think you need to define the type of friendship/relationship you want with each other. If you can't find a mutual agreement, then maybe it's better if you go your separate ways.

It's tough to tie each other down if you're not committed to one another at a level that you're both comfortable with.

Okay. I have been gone from AMHD because I spend at least 2 hours a day talking to my guy from Denver. We get along wonderfully 90% of the time and when we have problems, we work them out. He has come to visit me twice and he's great and I am going to visit him next week.

But I have a question for which I need an objective opinion.
So here it is:

A friend's daughter is getting married in LA in June and it's important to me to go to the wedding. I suggested to Denver that he meet me there and we spend a couple of days in LA together. He immediately asked if he was invited to the wedding. I said I wasn't sure yet. We have so far spent a total of 6 days together, although probably hundreds of hours on the phone. I said I would ask my friends if he could be added to the guest list but that I wanted to wait to ask. I didn't say this, but I just don't want to embarrass myself with my friends by asking to bring a boyfriend and then realizing later it's not going to work out and having to tell them he's not coming. If we'd been together longer and things were going well, I wouldn't hesitate. I think this hurt his feelings, although he said it was fine.

Now he says he's not going to LA at all since he has yet to be invited to the wedding and his daughter has asked him to watch her dog that weekend. I want him to come to LA and I would probably want him to come to the wedding. I just wanted to wait another month or so, until closer to the RSVP deadline to ask. Also, he apparently thought I would have a ton of friends there and I just told him no, I mainly know the parents and their three adult children. I don't know if that was a factor.

Did I do a bad thing in stalling on asking my friends to add him to their guest list? We were going to offer to pay the difference, by the way. And they still might say no.

I feel like he's pushing a little too much. I am getting the impression that he's not satisfied with my level of commitment, at least on this issue.

PS. We have not met any of each others friends or family yet.
I am supposed to meet his grown daughter next week.

Don't want to burst your bubble but be careful! Words are easy, phone time is not a problem. I would suggest that you check out this person... Google, a non identifying call to his employer, credit check. People are not always as as they appear. If he is after you do the checking, then meet with him in a public setting (first letting someone know where, when and who you are meeting).

Good luck.

Asking,

I'm getting in very late in this one but it seems to me that you are being manipulated here.

My red flags are: his insistence that you be exclusive before you were ready for these labels, the early stage at which he said he loves you, I'm sorry but this is no school boy and he should know that love does not happen over the phone or overnight. (I am aware that you have met now but he was saying this beforehand!) His obviously manipulative and immature manner that he has dealt with this LA issue. For whatever reason you want to hold off for a while, whether he knows what that reason is or not, he should respect your thoughts and opinions. Especially regarding your OWN friends and family.

I think that the issue with the other woman earlier may have been a way of controlling as well, going out with her presuming you would be jealous and then putting her down, to elevate the relationship in your mind. Not only is that not classy but it's immature.

His drinking is another big red flag I don't agree with in the slightest, even if he does not care for his own well being what of the others on the road that he may crash into?

Asking, do you think, and I don't mean to be rude, but do you think he may have seen you as a vunerable older woman with a naïve streak? The only reason that I say this is that you seemed to have yourself in that mind frame when you began seeing him.

Please be careful. I have met a man from a dating site and as great as he seemed chatting over the internet and on the phone, he turned out to be a very possesive and single minded man. Not a bad man but not the right man for me. It took a while to realise this, but in the end I went with my gut and got out. In hindsight I was definitely right. Not saying this guy is the same as the one I was seeing but there are some definite red flags there.

Hi neverme. You make some excellent points that have given me a lot to think about.

Still, I am not sure-- I think I need to wait and see.

I have seen NO other signs of excessive drinking in the two months we've been in contact. I will watch for that when I go visit him. He was concerned that his over-21 daughter told him she drinks, but then it turned out she meant one beer. My sense is that he's usually conservative about alcohol. But I'll pay attention.

In general, this has been a much better than other relationships I have had. But he is definitely rushing things. I don't always feel like it's too much, but he keeps pushing things forward in a way that seems surprising to me, like talking about living together (asking if marriage is important to me), and moving out here.

I do think he's a good guy. But I also want more time. I guess I should not have invited him to spend time with me in LA without knowing if he could go to the wedding. It seemed appealing to me when I suggested it.

I don't THINK he sees me as a naïve, vulnerable older woman. That's certainly not myself image. (And he's the same age as me.) I am surprised I came across that way and will give it some thought.

So, to get back to the possible LA trip, it crossed my mind that he was being manipulative, but I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt.
Maybe he is just saying what he wants, which is to go to the wedding with me. I can understand that. I guess what I'm asking is, Was it unreasonable to ask him to meet me in LA and NOT be invited to come with me to the wedding (it's not like he's going to know anyone)? Was that a hurtful thing to do? I guess if our positions were reversed I would not like it that much. But I also think I would be okay with waiting and trusting the other person to act eventually.

I'll go back many posts to "Historian" - what does your heart/gut (maybe that's the same thing) say?

I married my late husband after about 7 weeks following a blind date - it was just right. I dated other people for eternities (OK, half an eternity) and it wasn't right.

What does your heart/gut say?

I am really glad that you have seen no other signs of excessive drinking and I hope that that continues. I, personally, don't condone drink driving because it only takes once and it might, well really would, be a deal breaker for me. But I understand that I have lost loved ones on the road to drink driving and am biased.

He really is rushing things with all this talk of moving and living together, it has been less than a week of real person to person meeting, you know? But at the same time as Judy says, when it's right it's right.

I REALLY did not mean to insult with that comment about you being naïve and older, the only base of reference I have is my own mother who got divorced and back out on the dating scene and the perceptions of her that I have seen people, both men and women, persume. As I said it was only a question and you and 'Denver' are the only ones that can shed some light on this.

As far as LA goes, I think if you had established, or have, an exclusive dating label then I may be hurt by this. At the same time, I think that you are both adults with full lives and if you felt for any reason that this may be uncomfortable for YOU OR HIM that he should understand and trust that.

MY best advice to you right now is to sit down and be honest with your feelings and see what he is thinking. Speculation breeds uncertainty and craziness. Be honest, it will be better for you both in the long run.

Talaniman Rule- Doesn't matter how intense the feelings, or how much fun you have, never give your heart to someone you don't know well, and thats only after the lust has worn off for you both.

My point is simple, have fun, don't get carried away, and no matter what our ages are, whats the freakin' hurry? Enjoy it for what it is, and don't worry about the rest for now.

Its always so good in the beginning, but the real test is seeing how you get it on when you start getting to know the real person that your talking to. That takes time, ( a few months isn't time, try 6/7 months, at least you should have more facts by then, the more the better. ) so be patient, and pay attention, and enjoy the now.

You don't have to be starry eyed to enjoy yourself, just keep it real, and in perspective, so when you see what you don't like, you can stop, and nip it in the bud.

And contrary to popular belief, 55 is not old, not teen aged mind you, but hardly old. We have plenty of pep left, and the common sense to go with it.

Don't question yourself, but always question him.

Okay. Things have been going really well. He's visited me four times and I am about to go visit him for his birthday and again in a few weeks, my second and third visits. We have definitely had some bumps, but most of the time we are able to resolve things, increasingly without much drama. I invited him to a memorial for a friend and he met a lot of old friends and I was proud to be with him. He has met my kids.

One problem is that his 22-year old daughter seems set on not meeting me.

But last night he casually mentioned that he has still not told his family (father and brothers and cousins) about me. He says that this is because he does not want his aging father to find out that he and his wife were separated four years ago. (She died last summer.) So they all think that he and his wife were living together when she suddenly got sick and died and are treating him like a grieving widower--when in fact, he says, he was finally getting ready to divorce. Also, unclear why it took so long.

This level of deception and omission and lack of dealing with reality (including not getting divorced all those years) is freaking me out. I can't even begin to imagine separating from the father of my kids and not telling anyone in my family.

He says it is because he doesn't want his father to know. But (a) he's already been divorced once before, a short marriage in his 20s and (b) he says his father is losing it anyway and doesn't always remember his own grand daughter.

He is totally sweet to me 99% of the time, interesting and SEEMS to have good values. How can such a great guy do such a bizarre thing?

Update: He just cc'd me on an email telling his brother about me and saying that even though he plans to move to the west coast, he will be spending more time on the east coast in the future helping with his father. Up to now, he hasn't been out there helping at all, although he helps in other ways. It seems like he is guilty about all kinds of things and trying to please everyone. I am wondering how I am going to fit into this family scene long term.

Okay. There's more. I am just so confused today. This weekend is his birthday and he was supposed to come out here, but decided he couldn't, so I said I'd fly to his city, and he was very enthusiastic.

I also had said previously that I wanted to meet some of his friends. He said he would introduce me to "David" and arranged for us to have dinner on Saturday and that he would invite his daughter (who doesn't want to meet me) and David's son who is his daughter's age.

Then his daughter said she was not available then and my boyfriend changed the time and date several times and finally made the party on Tuesday next week after I'm back home. He called me last night to tell me this. I was hurt!

I thought we had a date with David and pointed out that it was almost inevitable that his daughter would not come if I was there. So he called David this morning and persuaded his friend to have dinner with me on Saturday and with his daughter and the son on Tuesday. He also says he does not want to celebrate his birthday with David and me on Saturday. I just feel so weird, like he is just mollifying me since the "real" party is Tuesday. I feel embarrassed to even go meet this guy David now who is giving up two evenings so I won't feel bad.

I feel like the currents here are just so confusing. How do you all read this situation?

Last time I was visiting him, he set up three different times for his daughter to meet me (one for dinner, one for an activity, and one for just 5 minutes) over four days and she canceled each one. She is 22.

I think it wise to not trip over his daughter, she is an adult, and has issues. I don't think you fan the flames with her by force or coercion, just wait until she is ready and not before. This is not something to take personally, or even make a big deal over.

As to his friends, I see no need for a lot of fanfare and planning as its his birthday, a good time and private celebration is really cool, and as with the daughter, I do not see a need to force anything at all, as things will happen in due time.

My whole point is keeping it rather simple without complicating things makes it smoother in the long run, and natural, even though he has met your side of the family already, his seems to be a more complex problem. Given the distance and time constraints, and the unknown quality that you both have to deal with, patients rather than persistence is what I think should be the watch words here.

I think there is always a very real danger of getting out of your own routine during the dating process, that you can be overly accommodating with each other in an effort to please. Especially when he hints of family obligations that will take up a lot of time.

I don't think you're at that point of a true understanding of his ways as of yet to really be able to establish the kinds of communications it takes to keep things going well, but it is also slowing down the whole process for you and that's a good thing.

Sure you want the experience into his life to be as good as the one he has had into yours, but frankly the dynamic is totally different and one that says go slower with eyes open, because there is more there that meets the eye.

I think asking, its about enjoying and getting more facts, than investing more of yourself at this time until you have a lot more facts.

What I see at this point, is you moving a bit faster than him, and moving further along than he is, and maybe you are more skilled in those social types of things, but slow down and see what's going on and recognize you are more invested than he is right now. Balance that a bit and let him come out some so you can see what your getting into without influencing anything.

I guess all that writing comes down to saying he needs to chase more, so you can see deeper into him. Its been 6/7 months? I think you will have to get together to see how long this distance will be between you, before you can actually move forward, or decide the direction to take. If all he wants is a sometime date and pen pal, then if that's okay with you, so be it, but that's not what I am getting from your side.

Asking, I think that one of the issues is the distance. Things seem to be fine when you're talking over the phone and not having to fit into his life, but once you are in HIS environment, it all seems to go slightly pear shaped. Clearly he's having difficulty weaving you into his life.

There are a couple of mildly red flags, and one is that you're very accommodating as well as very keen to see it as a long term relationship, the other is his family.

First it was him being too keen and now it seems to be you. There is a sort of 'push-pull' thing happening here because as you want to get closer to him he's pulling away. Previously, when you were holding back, he wanted to get closer to you.

I question whether he's actually emotionally and physically available for you - east coast, west coast what's it going to be? His daughter may have more influence on his relationship with you than you realize, and there is not much you can do about that!

You don't have the luxury of seeing each other regularly to work through these things naturally so expectations will always be high when you see each other. Additionally, he seems to have a number of skeletons in his closet - I know you've invested time and energy in this guy, but perhaps back off a little?

Wow - a lot to digest!

I wouldn't push to meet his friends; I certainly wouldn't push to meet his daughter. She may very well be grieving; she very well may have met other women and doesn't want to meet one more; she may have some other agenda.

I feel the same way about friends. If you were in the same City I would see it differently but all of this arranging and rearranging simply complicates your relationship with him. I would build a relationship with him and meet his friends when that falls into place.

My bigger concern? Apparently he doesn't tell the truth (I am skirting the word "lies") - to his family, particularly about his status as a widower. I'd be concerned that he also isn't telling the truth to me.

He certainly lost a relationship and a person who was significant in his life. But pretending to be the grieving widower? That's an insult to anyone who has ever been widowed.

I'd back off a little bit.

Thanks, Judy. I am still puzzling over this relationship, which now beginning its 8th month. I guess this is an update and a chance for me to mull things over.

At times it is very good, one of the best I've had, and I am trying to just enjoy the good parts. But I still find a need to keep my distance emotionally at times.

I visited in June and the daughter came to town to visit (she lives 1.5 hours away) and texted her father to leave a piece of her mother's furniture out front of his house for her. She came while we were home but did not come to the door. She texted him later to say he'd left her the wrong thing. I was not comfortable with her coming so far out of her way to not speak to me. It's clear she would normally come in and talk to her father and she avoided us only because I was there. (Also, she visited someone within 30 minutes of me a month ago, even though she lives half a continent away.) I still have not met her.

He says his daughter has only met one other woman he dated. Daughter is almost 23 and as everyone says, it's only been a year since her mother died.

I lost my own mother when I was 14 and was uncomfortable with the girlfriend my father began seeing, but I would never have refused to meet her or socialize. It just seems like basic manners to me. In the end, my father's girlfriend and I became close and maintained a relationship even after she and my father broke up. The hard part was at the beginning which began immediately after my mother died suddenly in an auto accident. In fact, she was the one who told me my mother had died, so there was definitely some tension there.

I feel that things should be a lot different for my boyfriend's daughter. She's older and my boyfriend says he was apart from her mother for about 3 years before she died last year, although, to be honest, I am unclear about the exact timing as he gets vague about that and has given different amounts of time. But at least 2 years. He also says that the mother slept in the same bed with the daughter until the daughter was 10 and that the daughter wouldn't speak to him for most of her early adolescence, only talking to her mother. He says neither of them really talked to him much, which seems strange because he is affectionate and cheerful. Now he and his daughter seem close and he has taken her on several trips in the last year.

He sent me pictures of two of the hotel rooms they stayed in, reminiscing about how beautiful they were, and I was uncomfortable with how romantic they looked. But as has come up in other threads, I can be jealous. I told him in an email that it made me uncomfortable and that I felt he should transfer that romantic impulse to me. He was offended but asked if I would like to take a romantic trip together. I said yes, but he said he could not really afford it now. He suggested a weekend trip that would be as cheap as possible (pretty much the opposite of what he did with his daughter).

I am happy to wait, but it's worth noting that he just inherited half of the value of his wife's house and other assets. He does not share financial information with me, although he described how he had set up a complex arrangement of accounts so that his deceased wife could continue to pay her share of his daughter's education as a "virtual mother." I think this arrangement prevents him from settling the estate, but I have resolved not to ask about it.

I have planned some nice activities when he visits, which we both enjoy, but don't feel like he reciprocates. He has met my friends and family and spends the night when my kids are here--they are 17 and 21 and live with me. I have not met anyone in his family.

When I visit, our activities have included emptying his wife's house of furniture and clothes and walking his wife's dog. This was okay at first, I wanted to help, but I'm ready to move on to our own life together and I don't sense any real progress in that direction. The wife's house is sold and the daughter has the dog, but she leaves the dog with him so often that it's hard for us to plan to visit each other. That is, he can't leave town because of the dog. When I'm there, our days are all structured around the needs of the dog as its diet requires daily shopping and he never leaves the dog alone. (As far as I can tell, it is an ordinary looking healthy older dog.)

Over the weekend, the daughter brought her new boyfriend to meet her father. I found myself actually a little annoyed that she would expect her father to meet her brand new boyfriend when she has refused to meet me for months. But I am trying to be grown up. :)

My bigger concern? Apparently he doesn't tell the truth (I am skirting the word "lies") - to his family, particularly about his status as a widower. I'd be concerned that he also isn't telling the truth to me.

He certainly lost a relationship and a person who was significant in his life. But pretending to be the grieving widower? That's an insult to anyone who has ever been widowed.

I'd back off a little bit.

I have reread everyone's great advice. Now seems like a good time to back away.

He didn't exactly lie; but it was the most dramatic omission I've ever encountered personally. He certainly let's people think he's a widower, though he doesn't actually say he is. I found out he has done that with others outside the family as well--some of his clients. I agree with your take and it is only because we get along so well otherwise that we are still a couple. I find I have pulled back since learning about this. At least, he has finally told his family about the lie and about me, or at least he says he has. How would I really know? Once in a while, I wonder if there is anything else like this.

I just read the entire thread and I am wondering why you are putting up with this person (the father not the daughter).

How do you know the daughter doesn't want to meet you? Has she told you that or has it all been from his lips? The same lips that say he hasn't told his family (I'm not buying the cc of the email to the brother) because he doesn't want them to know he wasn't living with his wife when she died. Like his daughter couldn't let that slip (especially if they had been separated for over a year) or that a year later they wouldn't expect him to be dating again.

I think there is a lot more going on and I don't think it has as much to with the daughter or the dog as it does him getting what he wants while stringing you along with just enough line to keep you interested.;

Cat,
Thanks. I've had all these thoughts and more. He says his daughter hardly talks to his side of the family. He says he took her to see them last winter, but he might have told her not to tell them? I never asked that. Would she go along?

I have never spoken to the daughter, although we recently exchanged email--brief, friendly.

I agree that this is about him, not the daughter or the dog.

I have put up with it because 90% of the time he so extremely nice to me and most men I have gone out with have turned out to be angry and rather unkind.

I will admit that I haven't dated in a long time, but I do hope you keep a healthy emotional distance so you can see the red flags waving and be OBJECTIVE with what you are seeing.

After 8 months there should be no doubt that you both are seeing each other for the same reasons, and that may be partially true, as you both fill a gap in each others lives, and while not a bad thing, is hardly enough to build on, because its not equal, or mutually as satisfying, because you have doubts, too many for this stage of the relationship, and maybe your expectations are a bit much to fit his place in life at this time.

Maybe it's the timing, or the way you describe the personal dynamics, but I doubt he has the same intentions as you do, and has other priorities in his life to give you the time and attention you need.

This is more about him, and not his family, nor his daughter, because if that's all it was and he felt as you do then the obstacles would be overcome because you would overcome them together.

The biggest red flag though, is the questions you have that go unasked, and that's a clear lack of proper communications, and I can't tell if its your own fear, or his inability, or unwillingness by you both to put the cards on the table.

I highly recommend you do so, before the attachment gets any further along, if nothing else, just to clear the air.

You can't build anything solid, without eliminating the presuming, assuming, and emotional speculations, fueled by feelings, and no facts.

I think you will see as do I, your in deeper than him already. The distance between you physically doesn't help bridge the emotional, and spiritual distance that has to be closed by honest expressions of your feelings to him.

Not the sloppy love stuff, but enough facts that will show you whether further commitment is worth it, or not, and not just a situation that looks good on paper(?), but without true substance.

Fun is fun, for a diversion from the routine, but a relationship requires a lot more.

Hi Tal,
I really appreciate your thoughts. It's funny you think I'm expecting more than he is, because most of the time it feels like it's the other way around. He is the one who talks a lot about moving to where I live and even getting married. He calls me more than I call him and seems lonely when we don't talk. His days seem a little empty at times, whereas I feel too busy. He talks about helping me with things, but when he's here, it doesn't seem to happen. He does what he wants to do, not what I need done. I admit I don't make demands though.

It is hard to read him sometimes because he emphasizes how serious he is, but then doesn't always follow through on things. Other times, I'm amazed by his energy and ability to see things through.

I don't expect a fancy trip right now, if that's what you mean by expectations, but it bothers me that while he's taken his daughter out of the country twice this year on pretty elaborate trips, our few dates are to the bookstore for coffee or the cheap restaurants he goes to all the time. Most of the time this is fine, but a little romance would be fun. When I tried to organize something special for his birthday, telling him I would pay, he refused to let me take him somewhere nice. I guess, I'm confused by the messages I'm getting.

And I've told him that, but I don't really know what the answer is because I tend to get either 100% resistance or 100% capitulation. When I say, "I am not looking for you to just give in, I want to discuss things for a few minutes and find out how you feel and why, so we can find common ground," he acts like he doesn't understand. And it's not as if he doesn't like to talk and discuss things. We still talk an hour a day or more, so there's plenty of time.

I feel like I've tried to talk to him about nearly all this stuff and sometimes I feel satisfied with his answers, but other times he gives vague unsatisfying answers, or, like I say, just capitulates to the specifics without my knowing why he was resisting something in the first place. It's that "yes dear" syndrome, which leaves me baffled. I don't know what's behind it.

On days like today, the doubts seem to pile up. When he fills up his monthly schedule with dog sitting and says he can't come visit, then I think it's safe to assume I'm not a priority. He wants me to come see him, but I don't really want to fly 1000 miles to help him spoil his deceased wife's dog. And I've told him that in the past, but he somehow seems not to remember that we talked about this. So I'd have to bring it up again and it sounds so petty and selfish to have to say again that I want for us to have some time to play. Plus he's allergic to the dog and can't sleep when the dog is there and gets a little irritable.

I guess, yes, we have different needs at this time. He has said more than once that he wasn't really ready to start dating when he began pursuing me and basically apologized for that--and not because I complained either.

He seems like a genuinely nice person, but I think he often deals with even minor conflict through evasion or simply giving in to whoever pushes hardest. I guess by talking (at such length!) I'm starting to see what you mean about my having more expectations.

And I agree that we should be overcoming the family conflicts together and I don't feel that's happening although I've tried very hard to work with him. We've logged many hours talking about his daughter and her problems. Sometimes we agree on a plan, but then he does something completely different and doesn't tell me until later. I've become so used to this that I've sort of stopped investing in these conversations. I just listen.

I feel that he gets what he wants by a slow process, like water on a stone.

Its really no ones fault when people have a hard time interacting, especially when there is distance involved, and easy to overlook when words, and actions don't match up.

For sure, when you find you can't talk about everything, that's when you pay closer attention.