Dear Sir--
I'm trying to investigate a drain problem and hope you can help:

Our 1500 sq ft house with 2 bathrooms is new construction in Oregon and we're still working out a few kinks, the most significant of which is the main plumbing drain. We are on a septic system. The plumbing drain line exits the house and runs forward 50' to the septic system (conventional drain field system.) Here's the problem:

Even though the system is completely new we periodically experience unexplainable backing up in the toilet closest to the end of the drain line (meaning that this toilet is the last fixture in the main drain line before it exits the house.) We also hear and see periodic air bubbles coming up from this toilet. We have tried to keep track of when this happens and why. We don't experience this in the other toilet or other fixtures.

First I suspected the toilet, removed it, reinstalled it, checked everything out, and frankly it's fine.

Following that, I've suspected the septic tank to be the problem. Last weekend we went through the outside piping that leads to the septic tank (50' piping) and snaked it and completely checked it with our septic installer. Everything checked out absolutely fine. We even ran the garden house into the cleanout and let it pour the length of the line into the septic tank and everything checked out fine. I'm satisfied that the septic system is not the problem, and I think the problem is "upstream" of the cleanout.

I observed that the problem occurs after we've started a load of laundry, and believe the laundry discharge is creating some sort of vacuum in the line. Sure enough, when running the laundry and peering down the outside drainline cleanout, I noticed that the laundry discharge tends to create an "air lock" or vacuum (or whatever the proper term is) in the drain line. To remedy, I disconnected the laundry discharge from its present standpipe and have it discharging to a deep sink in the laundry room. I hoped this would alleviate the problem. Unfortunately, when we do laundry, I still observe some "air lock" or vacuum created in the main drainline cleanout when the washer discharges. I'm stumped (and frustrated) and hope you can offer some wisdom or advice. The laundry discharge is moving quickly and efficiently through the drain line so I don't suspect clogs, but it is creating some sort vacuum. >:(

Hi Owen, There are bubbles and there are gurgles. A bubbling indicates a partial clog or blockage in the line. A gurgle indicates a venting problem. Bubbles=pressure or blowback. Gurgles= vacuum or suction. I'm presenting both of them because I'm not there to see which is which so I'll take your word that it's pressure blowing back and not air being sucked back into your toilet. The reason it's worse when the washer runs is because there is no other fixture in your house that discharges with more pressure and voluum . You said, "I noticed that the laundry discharge tends to create an "air lock" or vacuum (or whatever the proper term is) in the drain line. " Please explain in more detail what happens at the cleanout when you discharge the washer. If the problem were in the house main or one of the branches you shouldn't see any action at the clean out other then a flow of liquid. I'm a little confused here. At the toilet there are bubbles, (blowback/ partial blockage), however at the cleanout you have vacuum/air lock (blocked vent). Can't be both, got to be one or the other. Does the toilet back up and over flow? When you ran a snake down the cleanout to the septic tank did you also drop the snake down the washer vent and put out enough snake to past the cleanout? If you can still contact the plumber ask if he used 1/4 bends instead of sweeps on the drainage? That would give you back pressure under a high volume discharge such as a washer puts out. I'm still not discounting a vent problem. If there were a partial blockage then the water would back up when it hit forcing air to back uo also but after the bubbles there's usually a overflow. If there's a vent problem the dischage will set up a vacuum and vent through the nearest trap. In this case it could be the trap in your toilet. So, no backups? No liquid gushing out of the tub or shower drain when the washer discharges? Does the cleanout bubble back when the washer discharges? I'll wait on your answer and reply ASAP. Refards, Tom

Thanks Tom--I'll try to explain exactly what I observe.

When the washer discharges and I observe through the cleanout, I see laundry water rushing by, then slowly backup (because it appears there's so much volume), then slosh back and forth, making an occasional slurping sound. When any other fixture is used (toilet, sink, etc) and I observe through the cleanout, I see the water rushing by with no backing up whatsoever.

I snaked from the cleanout to the septic tank and everything came out clean. I have not snaked the vent.

The toilet does not overflow. What happens in these situations is that when you flush, even if just water, it doesn't go anywhere, just fills to the top of the bowl. A few bubbles come up and the problem clears itself after awhile. As a temporary fix, we try to just use the laundry late at night when no other fixtures will be used for awhile.

I don't know if the plumber used sweeps or 1/4 bends, but given the layout of the piping, and the location of the cleanout relative to the septic tank, I suspect he used 1/4 bend after the cleanout. Thanks--Owen

Have you opened up the septic tank to see if it needs to be pumped?  If the problem were upstream from the cleanout then you would not have a backup at the cleanout.  Do you still have the problem with the toilet when the cleanout's open? I hate to mention this considering the house was just built but if the filter bed/drainfield were not percolating and the discharge load was too heavy for it to disperse the outflow of the washer the tank would  fill and send a back blow back up the line.  The filter bed could be draining enough for normal discharge but a high volume discharge could just choke it enough so it would send a blow back up the line.  One more time.  If things were right in your septic system there would be no backup at the cleanout.   Please keep me in the loop on this one.  You're one of the more interesting problems I've had lately.  keep giving me all these little facts and your observations  and I'll try to build a case.  When we started I wasn't sure it wasn't a vent problem but you have taken the problem out of the house,( unless you tell me something in your next post that puts it back inside.) PS.  If there were sharp 1/4 bends in the line to the septic tank that would do it also.  Cheers Tom 

Tom--haven't opened the tank, but here's what I did with the septic installer last weekend (because I suspected the septic system to be the culprit):

We dug enough dirt so we could observe about 3' of pipe entering the septic tank, then we opened the cleanout and inserted a garden hose. We ran the garden hose for 30 minutes to see if we could "overfill" the system/drainfield. Everything drained fine and we could hear the water passing through the line into the tank (which was simultaneously satisfying and frustrating.)

To answer your question, when the cleanout is opened, the toilet does not bubble.

My thought about the washer was that it's so much water rushing so fast through the system that when you watch it go past the cleanout it zooms by, then sloshes back and forth making the occasional slurping sound. It seems that this problem is alleviated when I have the cleanout open, but I'm trying not to "overanalyze" this and miss a different problem (for example, others I have asked have blamed it on low-volume toilets, etc.)

A garden hose doesn't have the pressure and volume that a washer pump can put out so that test doesn't tell you much.? It's not in the vents , you steared me away from there. Congratulations! ;D You have nailed it down to one place. The fact that the toilet doesn't bubble when the cleanout's open tells me that the problem's in the septic system. The air that would normally bubble up the john is now venting through the open clean out. That could only happen if there was a backup downstream of the cleanout. As for the 1.6 gallon lo flush toilets, our problem is a heavy volume of water rushing down the pipe too fast. Any how it gave me a chuckle. You will find your problem somewhere between the cleanout and the end of the drain field. Good luck and I hope I've helped some. Have a great week end! Me? I'm going to the beach and work on my tan. Cheers, Tom 8)

:-/
I am having a *similar* problem. My clothes washer overflows in the laundry room and sends water up the vent pipe to the roof. The Roto Rooter (RR) people used their auger thing to clean the drain pipe all the way to the septic tank. He said he felt no obstructions. However, it still flooded the laundry room and sent water to the roof after he "cleaned" the line. RR didn't charge me, since they couldn't find/fix the problem. My neighbor suggested that a tree root may be pushing on the drainline, ever so slightly, to cause it not to have enough "fall" and a bubble is impeding the water flow. So now I am considering a tree surgeon to rip all the trees out by their roots and letting the drainline raise back up. Is there method to this madness?

I seriously doubt a tree root pushing the line out of place would cause the problem. Look at the trap under your sink, and the way the water has to go down, up, and back down again. Did the rotorooter guy start right at the washer drain, or an outside clean out? If so, have him come again and start at the washer.

You can cut down a tree and even have the stump ground away, but most of the tree roots will still be there. I don't think anybody can completely remove all of a tree's roots. I would certainly wait until tanned Tom makes it back from the beach and gives his opinion. It would be one thing to sacrifice the trees if it worked. I am afraid you would be out time, money, the trees, and still have the drain problem. Reread the other posts, and study the problem some more. At least you roof should be water proof.

Hey Star, A sunny hello from Florida. Lab man was right. I played hooky and spent the day at the beach. Sarasota's beautiful this time of year. Most RR men aren't regular plumbers. They just snake out the sewer line from the house to the street or the septic tank to remove roots. If you had tree roots in the sewer line to the septic tank then ALL of your fixtures would be affected. It sounds like you have a blockage in the branch line that drains the washer. This blockage will be located downstream from the vent in the branch line. Did the RR man run a snake down from the roof vent. Because if he didn't then you will still be left with the blockage. Get a man out there to run a snake down the vent and break up the clog and send it on through. Let me know how you make out. Cheers, Tom

Hi Tom,

The RotoRooter (RR) guys came back out. They used a camera to check the drain line and the vent to the roof. The vent was OK, but the drain line was clogged about 50 feet out from the house. Apparently, the drain line didn't connect to the septic tank after all. It was a "graywater" line that ran independently. He said that in our area, it was OK, but in some places that was illegal. He connected the washer to the main septic tank line at the house, capped off the old "graywater" drain line and even pumped the septic tank. He did all of this for $200, which seemed cheap to me, but I didn't question it. Everything seems to be working fine so far and I'm glad I didn't have all the trees ripped out. THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH FOR YOUR ADVICE!! Too many times people tell me things just to charge me more and I like having enough knowledge to tell when their lying, or not. Thanks again!

Hi Star, Thanks for keeping us in the loop. :o Ya got off cheap ;D. Glad things worked out for you :-* No thanks necessary. ::) An time Labman or I can help out just let us know. 8) Cheers, Tom

Toilet in MBR doesn't flush most of the time. Water comes up to the lip and stops. Slowley it goes down (10-15 min) We've been in the house for 3 years; it is 13 years old, on a slab with a septic tank and lift station.
The problem started a year ago with occasional problems and sometimes serious bubbling. We had the septic Tank pumped several weeks ago but no change. Yesterday a plumber routed from the toilet to the inspection port and from the port to the septic tank. He said it couldn't be the vent because the shower and the sink drain freely. He then said it had to be the toilet. I replaced the toilet but it still won't flush. Help!

Toilet in MBR doesn't flush most of the time. Water comes up to the lip and stops. Slowley it goes down (10-15 min) We've been in the house for 3 years; it is 13 years old, on a slab with a septic tank and lift station.
The problem started a year ago with occasional problems and sometimes serious bubbling. We had the septic Tank pumped several weeks ago but no change. Yesterday a plumber routed from the toilet to the inspection port and from the port to the septic tank. He said it couldn't be the vent because the shower and the sink drain freely. He then said it had to be the toilet. I replaced the toilet but it still won't flush. Help!


Hi David,
Sorry about the delay, Did the plumber pull the toilet and run his snake down the closet bend to make sure the branch wasn't partially clogged?

I had a problem with a cloged washer drain line once... The washer would put out so much water it would back up and when I tried to duplicate this with a garden hose I could not (garden hose flow<washer flow)... I know it sounds weird but it is true. Eventually the drain blocked up completely and I called RotoRooter.

My home is about 11 months old. It is a 2 story with 2 full baths upstairs and a half bath downstairs. We are on a sceptic tank. We have had some problems off and on with bubbling in the downstairs toilet and the water draining out. It always seemed to fix it self. Just recently it started happening more often and seems to be getting worse. I noticed about 3 weeks ago that the toilet bubbles and makes noises when someone is using the shower upstairs. Then it started filling up with water to the top when ever water drained anywhere in the house (shower, sinks, washer). First it bubbles, then it fills, then it slowly receeds all the way down to empty. After awhile, it fills to normal. Now it is doing it if you use other toilets too. It has only filled over once, while my husband was showering yesterday. I heard water rushing and went to the bathroom and saw it rushing over. In addition, someimes this toilet will work fine and other times it backs up when flushed and doesn't completely flush. I also noticed yesterday that it filled with brown stuff a couple of times ( I assume that was sewage). Anyway, neither my husband or I know anything about plumbing and we have no idea what is wrong. Is there a blockage or an air pressure problem (a neighbor suggested this) or a sceptic problem? Please help.

My home is about 11 months old. It is a 2 story with 2 full baths upstairs and a half bath downstairs. We are on a sceptic tank. We have had some problems off and on with bubbling in the downstairs toilet and the water draining out. It always seemed to fix it self. Just recently it started happening more often and seems to be getting worse. I noticed about 3 weeks ago that the toilet bubbles and makes noises when someone is using the shower upstairs. Then it started filling up with water to the top when ever water drained anywhere in the house (shower, sinks, washer). First it bubbles, then it fills, then it slowly receeds all the way down to empty. After awhile, it fills to normal. Now it is doing it if you use other toilets too. It has only filled over once, while my husband was showering yesterday. I heard water rushing and went to the bathroom and saw it rushing over. In addition, someimes this toilet will work fine and other times it backs up when flushed and doesn't completely flush. I also noticed yesterday that it filled with brown stuff a couple of times ( I assume that was sewage). Anyway, neither my husband or I know anything about plumbing and we have no idea what is wrong. Is there a blockage or an air pressure problem (a neighbor suggested this) or a sceptic problem? Please help.


First off it's not a "air pressure problem", you have a partial blockage. What you have to do now is isolate it. Locate and open the sewer clean out, hint: It's on the same side as your septic tank within 18" of the house foundation. It may be just under the dirt but ,trust me, It's there.
Now flush a upstairs toilet and check the clean out, it should have a good flow past it. If not and the downstairs toilet bubbles then the blockage is inside the house in the main and it will have to be snaked from the roof vent.
If the cleanout overflows then one of two things. The line from the cleanout's to the septic tank's got a partial block and should be snaked from the clean out or the tank is full and needs to be pumped. Good luck and let me know what you find

Speedball1,

Thanks for the reply. I have another question. Are you talking about the round green cover that is in the ground (almost looks like alarge disc or maybe a trash can cover) or are you talking about the white pipe that sticks up with the unscrewable cap? Pardon me for my plumbing ignorance, I don't know the names of any of these things or why they are there. My mother suggested openning the white pipe to see if there was blockage and said to get a "plumbing gun" and shoot it in that pipe. Does that sound right? We did open that pipe and stuff was at the top and came out. If we flush or use any plumbing upstairs or use the dishwasher or washing machine downstairs, etc. the downstairs toilet bubbles and water flows out of this pipe. If we flush the downstairs toilet it does not flush very well and water does not flow out. Should we try the plumbing gun? Is there anything we should know first? Should we open the green thing?

Speedball1,

Thanks for the reply. I have another question. Are you talking about the round green cover that is in the ground (almost looks like alarge disc or maybe a trash can cover) or are you talking about the white pipe that sticks up with the unscrewable cap? Pardon me for my plumbing ignorance, I don't know the names of any of these things or why they are there. My mother suggested openning the white pipe to see if there was blockage and said to get a "plumbing gun" and shoot it in that pipe. Does that sound right? We did open that pipe and stuff was at the top and came out. If we flush or use any plumbing upstairs or use the dishwasher or washing machine downstairs, etc. the downstairs toilet bubbles and water flows out of this pipe. If we flush the downstairs toilet it does not flush very well and water does not flow out. Should we try the plumbing gun? Is there anything we should know first? Should we open the green thing?

It's not the green cover. That sounds like the top of a propane tank . It's the white PVC pipe with a cap. One of two things. (1) you have a blockage downstream from the clean out and it will have to be snaked using a sewer machine,(plumbing gun) or (2) your septic tank is full and needs to be pumped. Since you have a newer home I would have to select (1). You may rent a sewer machine from your local Rent All. Ask for a Ridgid K-60 or equivalent. Good luck, Tom

Speedball1,

Thanks again for the reply. We are going try fixing it today. I'll let you know how it goes. BTW - is there anything special that we can buy to pour on the stuff that came out of the pipe to help kill the bacteria before cleaning it up? It is probably just wishful thinking on my part but I have to ask any way.
As for the green lid, we do not have a propane tank. Our home is alll electric. Our neighbors all have the same lid, actually 2 lids (I think our 2nd one got covered up when they tried to regrade our lot to fix the divots their trucks left). Both lids are located in the area of the sceptic tanks. That is why I though they had something to do with our sceptic.

One more question, we were recently told by a couple of people that all the rain we have had lately might be causing our sceptic problems, has anyone ever heard of anything like this before?

Thanks for all the help. This is a great website with lots of great info.

Speedball1,

Thanks again for the reply. We are going try fixing it today. I'll let you know how it goes. BTW - is there anything special that we can buy to pour on the stuff that came out of the pipe to help kill the bacteria before cleaning it up? It is probably just wishful thinking on my part but I have to ask any way.
As for the green lid, we do not have a propane tank. Our home is alll electric. Our neighbors all have the same lid, actually 2 lids (I think our 2nd one got covered up when they tried to regrade our lot to fix the divots their trucks left). Both lids are located in the area of the sceptic tanks. That is why I though they had something to do with our sceptic.

One more question, we were recently told by a couple of people that all the rain we have had lately might be causing our sceptic problems, has anyone ever heard of anything like this before?

Thanks for all the help. This is a great website with lots of great info.
The green caps are the inspection ports for your septic tank. Ours are cement down here. Try full strength bleach for the smell. Put a auger tip on the cable when you snake the line. It would be prudent on your part to open up a inspection port on the septic tank and check to see if it's full and needs to be pumped. If the tank was full it would give the same symptoms as a blocked line. Good luck, Tom

I'm having similar issues as the above members, but mine has a little deviation. My home is about 100 years old. I just moved in about a year and a half ago. The attic is half finish and it has a full bathroom, small, but for the most part functional. I'm sure that the bathroom is not as old as the house though, but it had to be installed after the 40's, maybe in the 50's. Unfortunately the previous owners never used the attic and the toilet and sink were in such a bad shape that I had to replace them. So far everything was fine. At first the sink was a little clogged, but Drano fixed the problem. After installing the toilet I have been experiencing flushing problems, water would come up to the top of the bowl and then slowly come back down. Sometimes it will flush for a day or two without issues, but eventually it would comeback to the same. When the problem is happening, as I flush the toilet the bathtub drain fills with water, well, water comes up the drain, but slowly drains again. Luckily the bathroom have not being used for decades and I cleaned and tried to disinfect the place several times before and after I replaced the toilet and sink. I also noticed that when I leave the water running in the sink or bathtub for a minute or so, air bubbles start coming up the toilet bowl. I already tried few commercial clog removers from Home Depot, which alleviated a little the flushing of the toilet. But after few more tries dropping paper towels in the toilet and then flushing I'm back to the same, slow draining or no draining at all (bowl would fill to the top and slowly the water would come back down). If I use the plunger in the toilet water will come up the bathtub. After few tries of using the plunger it will start working again. Still I have bubbles coming up the bowl every time I leave the sink or bathtub running for a minute or so. This attic bathroom has a separate drain line that goes all the way down to the basement. I'm new at plumbing, I don't know if this sounds like a partial block or a vent problem, or maybe both. The only thing I have not tried is to snake the vent pipe from the roof because the house is really high and the roof pitch is way too much for me. Any help, advise, or plain "just get a plumber" will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

This is just something I might try... Seems you have a clog below that bathroom group somewhere. If the roof is way too high then perhaps you could remove the toilet and snake from there. To do a good job you will probably need a sewer machine or call roto rooter. Roto Rooter is pretty good and they give a 30 day guarantee so if they miss it they come back for free... at least they do around here.

Wait to hear what speedball1 says. Also... don't flush paper towels or any other heavy stuff in the toilet... that can cause clogs. Only toilet paper.

Good luck.

Tom

I'm having similar issues as the above members, but mine has a little deviation. My home is about 100 years old. I just moved in about a year and a half ago. The attic is half finish and it has a full bathroom, small, but for the most part functional. I'm sure that the bathroom is not as old as the house though, but it had to be installed after the 40's, maybe in the 50's. Unfortunately the previous owners never used the attic and the toilet and sink were in such a bad shape that I had to replace them. So far everything was fine. At first the sink was a little clogged, but Drano fixed the problem. After installing the toilet I have been experiencing flushing problems, water would come up to the top of the bowl and then slowly come back down. Sometimes it will flush for a day or two without issues, but eventually it would comeback to the same. When the problem is happening, as I flush the toilet the bathtub drain fills with water, well, water comes up the drain, but slowly drains again. Luckily the bathroom have not being used for decades and I cleaned and tried to disinfect the place several times before and after I replaced the toilet and sink. I also noticed that when I leave the water running in the sink or bathtub for a minute or so, air bubbles start coming up the toilet bowl. I already tried few commercial clog removers from Home Depot, which alleviated a little the flushing of the toilet. But after few more tries dropping paper towels in the toilet and then flushing I'm back to the same, slow draining or no draining at all (bowl would fill to the top and slowly the water would come back down). If I use the plunger in the toilet water will come up the bathtub. After few tries of using the plunger it will start working again. Still I have bubbles coming up the bowl every time I leave the sink or bathtub running for a minute or so. This attic bathroom has a separate drain line that goes all the way down to the basement. I'm new at plumbing, I don't know if this sounds like a partial block or a vent problem, or maybe both. The only thing I have not tried is to snake the vent pipe from the roof because the house is really high and the roof pitch is way too much for me. Any help, advise, or plain "just get a plumber" will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
Tommy gave you good advice. You have partial clog in the branch. I try to stay clear of pulling the toilet and snaking through the closet bend for two reasons. One, the hassle and mess of pulling the toilet and two, the snake is black and greasy when you pull it back and can really mess up a nice clean bathroom. However sometimes it just isn't practical to go down the roof vent. Snake out the line and your troubles will be over. Good luck, Tom

Hello,
Our home is about 1.5 years old and last couple days have noticed when shower in master bath is turned on, toilet begins to slowly and repeatedly bubble, rather like "belching". Have not noticed any odor and did notice this once before, about 3 months ago, but only once and not again until last two days. A friend suggested plumbing vents maybe problem, builder says not to worry about it, that it's just releasing air bubbles, mom says we should panic and assume it has something to do with our septic. We've never had septic on property and don't know what's normal and what's not. Can anyone help? :confused:

Hello,
Our home is about 1.5 years old and last couple days have noticed when shower in master bath is turned on, toilet begins to slowly and repeatedly bubble, rather like "belching". Have not noticed any odor and did notice this once before, about 3 months ago, but only once and not again until last two days. A friend suggested plumbing vents maybe problem, builder says not to worry about it, that it's just releasing air bubbles, mom says we should panic and assume it has something to do with our septic. We've never had septic on property and don't know what's normal and what's not. Can anyone help? :confused:
... also belch when it is flushed? If not, then you probably don't have a septic tank issue. Wait for "Speedball1" to reply with an exact solution.

Hello,
Our home is about 1.5 years old and last couple days have noticed when shower in master bath is turned on, toilet begins to slowly and repeatedly bubble, rather like "belching". Have not noticed any odor and did notice this once before, about 3 months ago, but only once and not again until last two days. A friend suggested plumbing vents maybe problem, builder says not to worry about it, that it's just releasing air bubbles, mom says we should panic and assume it has something to do with our septic. We've never had septic on property and don't know what's normal and what's not. Can anyone help? :confused:

It doesn't sound like a vent but sounds more like you have a partial blockage in your drain line. If your builder is telling you that "air bubbles" and "belching" are normal he's blowing smoke and attempting to tapdance out of any kind of responsibility. A partial blockage isn't normal and will only get worse over time. When a toilet is flushed the dischange goes down the pipe and hits a partial clog and bounces back sending a bubble of air ahead of it. This is the "belch" that you see. It then drains away until the next flush. The repair is to snake out and clear the drain line. Since you're new to septic systems let me give you a few pointers. Since the septic tank is such an essential part of a sewage system, here are some points to remember about the "care and feeding" of that part of the onsite sewage treatment system.
A "starter" is not needed for bacterial action to begin in a septic tank. Many bacteria are present in the materials deposited into the tank and will thrive under the growth conditions present.
If you feel that an additive is needed, be aware that some may do great harm. Additives that advertise to "eliminate" tank cleaning may cause the sludge layer to fluff up and be washed out into the drainfield, plugging soil pores. Some additives, particularly degreasers, may contain carcinogens (cancer-causing) or suspected carcinogens that will flow into the ground water along with the water from the soil treatment unit.
Send all sewage into the septic tank. Don't run laundry wastes directly into the drainfield, since soap or detergent scum will plug the soil pores, causing failure.
Normal amounts of household detergents, bleaches, drain cleaners, and other household chemicals can be used and won't stop the bacterial action in the septic tank. But don't use excessive amounts of any household chemicals. Do not dump cleaning water for latex paint brushes and cans into the house sewer.
Don't deposit coffee grounds, cooking fats, wet-strength towels, disposable diapers, facial tissues, cigarette butts, and other non-decomposable materials into the house sewer. These materials won't decompose and will fill the septic tank and plug the system. To use a 5-gallon toilet flush to get rid of a cigarette butt is also very wasteful of water. Keep an ash tray in the bathroom, if necessary.
Avoid dumping grease down the drain. It may plug sewer pipes or build up in the septic tank and plug the inlet. Keep a separate container for waste grease and throw it out with the garbage.
If you must use a garbage disposal, you will likely need to remove septic tank solids every year or more often. Ground garbage will likely find its way out of the septic tank and plug up the drainfield. It is better to compost, incinerate, or deposit the materials in the garbage that will be hauled away. As one ad says, "You can pay me now, or pay me later."
Clean your septic tank every 1 to 3 years. How often depends on the size of the tank and how many solids go into it. A rule of thumb is once every 3 years for a 1,000 gallon tank serving a 3-bedroom home with 4 occupants (and with no garbage disposal).
Using too much soap or detergent can cause problems with the septic system. It is difficult to estimate how dirty a load of laundry is, and most people use far more cleaning power than is needed. If there are lots of suds in your laundry tub when the washer discharges, cut back on the amount of detergent for the next similar load. It's generally best not to use inexpensive detergents which may contain excessive amounts of filler or carrier. Some of these fillers are montmorillonite clay, which- is used to seal soils! The best solution may be to use a liquid laundry detergent, since they are less likely to have carriers or fillers that may harm the septic system.
Each septic system has a certain capacity. When this capacity is reached or exceeded, there will likely be problems because the system won't take as much sewage as you want to discharge into it. When the onsite sewage treatment system reaches its daily capacity, be conservative with your use of water. Each gallon of water that flows into the drain must go through the septic tank and into the soil absorption unit. Following are some ways to conserve water that should cause little hardship in anyone's standard of living:
Be sure that there are no leaking faucets or other plumbing fixtures. Routinely check the float valve on all toilets to be sure it isn't sticking and the water isn't running continuously. It doesn't take long for the water from a leaking toilet or a faucet to add up. A cup of water leaking out of a toilet every minute doesn't seem like much but that's 90 gallons a day! So be sure that there is no water flowing into the sewer when all water-using appliances are supposed to be off.
The most effective way to reduce the sewage flow from a house is to reduce the toilet wastes, which usually account for about 40 percent of the sewage flow. Many toilets use 5 to 6 gallons per flush. Some of the so-called low water use toilets are advertised to use only 3.5 gallons per flush. Usually the design of the bowl hasn't been changed, however, and often two flushes are needed to remove all solids. That's 7 gallons! Toilets are available which have been redesigned and will do a good job with one gallon or less per flush. Using a 1-gallon toilet rather than a 5 gallon toilet will reduce sewage flows from a home by about a third. This reduction may be more than enough to make the sewage system function again. While prices may vary, 1.6 gallon toilets can usually be purchased in the $200 range, far less than the cost of a new sewer system. Baths and showers can use lots of water. "Setting up camp" in the shower with a shower head flow of 5 gallons per minute will require 100 gallons in 20 minutes. Shower heads that limit the flow to 1.5 or 2 gallons per minute are available and should be used. Filling the tub not quite so full and limiting the length of showers will result in appreciable water savings.
Is the water from the faucet cold enough to drink? How long do you let it run to cool down? Keep a container of drinking water in the refrigerator. Then it won't be necessary to run water from your faucets in order to get a cool drink.
There may be other ways to conserve water that you can think of in your home. The main idea is to consider water as a valuable resource and not to waste it.
Following a few simple rules like not using too much water and not depositing materials in the septic tank that bacteria can't decompose should help to make a septic system trouble-free for m, too! Any years. But don't forget the septic tank does need to be cleaned out when too many solids builtreatment system.
With a water meter you can determine how much water your automatic washer uses per cycle. Many washers now have settings to reduce the amount of water used for small loads. Front loading washers and suds savers use less water than top loading machines. If your sewage treatment system is reaching its maximum capacity, try to spread the washing out during the week to avoid overloading the sewage system on a single day. Septic tanks need tender, loving care too. Good luck, Tom

Speedball1, WOW, thanks so much for your reply... :) will feel much better as do-it-yourselfer and homeowner with support like yours! Thanks again, will heed advice and let you know results. Take care!

I've read the other posts about the bubbles in the drain lines. I am having a similar problem. Let me start by saying that about 1.5 years ago my husband took out a sink that was in our basement. All he did was disconnet it and cap it off. It was located right before the cleanout. Since he did this we are having problems when doing the laundry. When the water is emptying we will get some bubbles in the toilet (last on the line before the cleanout) and then the water will back up into the bathtub (located right next to the toilet). I would have said it was a clog of some sort but it only seems to happen when the weather gets colder outside. The last time we had this problem was in march/april. At that time we had a plummer come in and snake out the line from the toilet to the cleanout and from the cleanout to the town's main line. We still had the problem after he left as well. Then the weather got nice and it never happened again until now. While the last plummer was here he also got up on the roof and ran the garden hose down it to make sure there wasn't a blockage with the vent. There wasn't. He was at a loss and didn't know what else to tell us. I am wondering if it could be a venting problem since it only started happening after the sink was removed. The guy who owned the house before us did his own stuff and put the sink in. He didn't have the right stuff to do the pipes properly so he put 2 pieces together and just put silicon on it and tape. Thinking about it now when it was there we would always get a sewage smell in the basement when doing the laundry. I am at a loss. I really hate to have the lines snaked again since we still had the same problem before after having it snaked. I think you asked someone else about opening the cleanout and observing it. That was done and when the cleanout is open all is fine and there are no bubbles and backup into the bathtub. I hope I am not confusing you. Any help you could give me would be much appreciated.

Hi Heather,

" I think you asked someone else about opening the cleanout and observing it. That was done and when the cleanout is open all is fine and there are no bubbles and backup into the bathtub."

Which tells me that there is back pressure somewhere on down the line to the city main. By bet would be at the raiser,( where your sewer connects to the city main.) your plumber didn't get it. This clog isn't bad enough to backup when you drain a sink or flush but a washer pump discharges with great force and volume send a lot of water down the line in a very short time. The "bubble" occurs when all that water hits the partial clog and bounces back sending a bubble or air ahead of it. This isn't a vent problem unless your hubby capped off the sink vent, Sooner or later you're going to hafta snake out the line to the street. Good luck, Tom

I mentioned before that we had the lines snaked. The last guy that was in did snake out the line from the house to the main towns sewer line. I know that he got all the way out because the towns workers were also here at the same time and they lifted the manhole cover and made sure that the snake was all the way out of our line and in the main. He did remove some small amount of roots but nothing to really talk about. What is confusing me the most about this is why we don't have any problems in the nicer weather. If there was a partial blockage wouldn't it happen any time of year? Right now (and when it seems to happen) is in the spring and fall when things are still cold but there is some melting. I should also mention to you that our sewer line is higher then the bottom of the foundation so the washer dosen't drain directly into the lines. It empty's into a sink and then has to be pumped up and out into the line. I don't know if that would make any difference. Is it possible to put in another vent to the outside by the cleanout for the air to escape there instead of coming back up to the toilet? I'm just grasping at straws here trying to think of things since I've talked to about 4 plumbers and the town and no one seems to know what I am talking about.

By the way... THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR HELP!! I really appreciate it.

Good morning Heather,

You're really using your head when you ask, "Is it possible to put in another vent to the outside by the cleanout for the air to escape there instead of comming back up to the toilet? I'm just grasping at straws here trying to think of things since I've talked to about 4 plumbers and the town and no one seems to know what I am talking about."
Bingo! The sink vent should exhaust the bubble if it's not blocked but since it don't the next best thing would be to install a capped vent next to the outside clean out. That would keep the sewer gas out of your home. You may be able to adapt a threaded raiser to attach the capped vent to off the cleanout but if you can't a tee will have to be cut into the sewer and a raiser brought up to grade for the vent to connect to. Good luck, Tom

I sure hope I am posting this in the proper place, if not I do apologize in advance. Here is our problem. My husband and I recently moved in to a house and noticed that our master bathroom had slow drainage. After about a week or two our toilet began to have flushing problems. When the toilet is flushed water fills to the top without flushing and then after about 10-15 minutes it goes back down at times leaving very little water in the bowl. There are times when it works properly, so we are not sure what the problem could be. We also noticed that when the shower is on in the same bathroom the toilet bubbles or gurgles. It does the same thing when the sink is used as well. We have another bathroom in the house and its usage does not seem to affect the main bathroom at all, everything seems to be working properly with no slow drainage or toilet problems. We are also experiencing problems with our clothes washer drain. The water flows back up when draining in the rinse cycle, but if you fiddle with the washing machine as it is draining and keep it from a continuous water flow the water does exit only it doesn't seem to work properly when the gush is one big flow. And lastly, I just recently noticed that the water I use when washing dishes in my kitchen seems to be exiting out of a vent/hole in the wall located on the side to our backyard. I do apologize as I do not know what this is called. :) I don't think this is normal and I am not sure the water should be exiting this way. This was not the case prior to moving in and we are wondering if it has to do with some type of blockage. We were informed that the plumbing was redone. There is new piping in the bathrooms, kitchen and washing room, but we can't tell you the extent of the work as we are newbies to this entire process. Please advise at your convenience. Your input will be greatly appreciated. Both my husband and I have no knowledge when it comes to plumbing and we want to make sure that when we do have someone out we at least have some idea of what the possible problem may be and not be charged for something that isn't.

You've come to the right place. And your complaint is very detailed, however you failed to tell us whether you're on city sewer or a septic tank system.
This is a detail we have to know before we can answer your question. I'll be waiting for your answer. Cheers, Tom

Thanks Tom, I'm showing it is a public sewer system, so I assume it is a city sewer. Hope this helps and thank you once again for your quick reply.

If you had a septic tank I would have advised you to see if the tank needed pumping. You are describing a blocked vent in your main bathroom. Have the lavatory vent in the main bathroom snaked and cleared.
That was a vent problem, however the kitchen and washer problem's a drainage problem. The branch's gota partial clog and the drain needs to be snaked out from the kitchen roof vent. If the areas are what was repiped then I would call back the plumbing company. You shouldn't be having this kind of trouble with new work. Did you purchase this home or are you renters? Regards, Tom

Hello Tom, again thanks for your quick reply. We will have both of these matters looked at. You have given us some relief in knowing that we will be going into this situation with at least a bit more knowledge. Unfortunately, the home was a purchase in "as-is" condition. When we had our home inspected the inspector advised us the plumbing was redone and he did mention it was a very good job at that so we didn't think anything major would come of it. OOPS! :( The slow drainage to the bathroom sinks were easily resolved as the drain plungers were too low. Once adusted they worked fine. The only thing that continued was the master shower which initially drained slowly yet now it seems to have gotten worse, which is why we stopped using it. These other issues are nightmares we are hoping will not cost us an arm and a leg as someone suggested that the problem may be coming from the plumbing not related to the work done inside, but on the outside which I would assume would have to do with whatever is underground outdoors. Luckily we do have a home warranty, although we are not sure what all it is they will cover. We are keeping our fingers crossed at this point! :) Either way, thank you so much for your input. I will definitely keep you posted to what happens. Glad I found this forum! Best Wishes!

-Mary

jim dandy I am a plumber first time visiting the web for answers to plumbing problems but I have a customer that lives in a two bath ranch on a slab! And when they discharge the washer on the second load not the first the master toilet which is the farthest upstream fixturwe in the system whitch is a wet vented bathroom group the trap blows some info that will be helpful is I have already snaked all vents in the system I ran a camera from the master pot all the way to the main in the city sewer it was clean as a whistle no puddling no bellys no clogs no breaks the double lavs carry the vent for the bathroom and the laundry has its own vent as well and they are tied together right at the vtr with no back fall in the vents or any drains in the house and the toilet is less than 6 feet from the vent with no offsets can you shed any light on this problem

Hey Jim, I like the way you frame a question. You touched on all the facts and gave a rundown on what you've done so far.
You have done everything I would have done if this were my call. Has this problem come on suddenly or has it been a ongoing problem for the home owner? Where in relation to the washer is the toilet that bubbles up? The fact the it takes two washer loads to do this tells me the problem may be in the drainage design. Drainage pipes that can't handle the volume the washer puts into them. Let's "noodle" back and forth on this and perhaps come up with something. I'll toss out ideas and you can shoot them down. Regards, Tom PS. I'm a retired plumber with over 50 years out in the field.

This is a new construction house plumbed under the new washer rules with 3"to the tee at the washer box and the toilet in question is upstream about 15' and in that bathroom group starting from the pot and going down stream towards the 3"wye that picks up the washer it goes pot double lavs (vent) shower then about a 10' run down to the 3"wye for the washer witch is on a 10' developed length branch we have also tried this with the vents cut wide open to the attic let me throw this at you what do you think about the presence of soap into the drain the first cycle has more soap than the next but it only blows on the 2nd cycle and after it blows you can drain both master lavs at the same time and it will blow the toilet and will blow it less and less each time you drain them up to 4 times cocecutively and then starts over to where you must run a load of laundry with soap and on the 2nd cycle it blows the toilet and starts all over again if you don't put soap in the washer it won't blow the pot until you doon the 2nd cycle I know this sounds both like a vent problem and a back up problem but I have video proof the drain is not blocked or holding water in any way and in this plat we have done this model several times the same way with no problems except this one and also the washer is old not in any way a new style washer house is 1 year old

I would be happy to hear any suggestions that you may have with this one and thank you for taking the time to try and help

Good morning Jim,

" i know this sounds both like a vent problem and a back up problem but i have video proof the drain is not blocked or holding water in any way and in this plat we have done this modle several times the same way with no problems exept this one and also the washer is old not in any way a new style washer house is 1 year old"

Jim, If it's not the drainage or the vents then that leaves just one thing. The drainage design. I realize that you said all the houses were plumbed off the same set of as-built prints but something in this house is different. How about installing a "dedicated vent" from the bathroom to exaust any blowback? If we can't locate the problem let's work on modifying the set up to make it go away. I like the New washer rule increasing the drain to 3".
On another note. We can always use expert plumbers on this page. Ever think of signing up as a AMHD plumbing expert? Cheers, Tom

I never heard of that being legal before?

I never heard of that being legal before?

Please explain when dedicated vents were outlawed? This will be a vent just the same as the others. A dedicated vent is used in all holding tank systems and has never been "red tagged" yet. Cheers, Tom

Illegal should have been the word. I guess I am getting old. LOL

My "double" septic is about 34 years old and will probably needs to be replaced in the near future. I just want to postpone that as long as I can. I also don't want to pay for both the rooter guys and the pumping guys if I only need one service but I think my line out to the septic might be broken and slightly offset. The septic was pumped around 1990 and then again in 2000 and the guys said it was only half full at that time.

The laundry is one the second floor and the lowest drains are a toilet and shower on the first floor. When doing the laundry during or right after a heavy rain, one upstairs and the downstairs toilet sometimes gurgle. Recently, soap bubbles came up the downstairs shower drain and from under the new downstairs toilet. What do you think is the cause? Tank full, main line blocked, partial blockage elsewhere, vent blockage? Also, should I replace the seal in the downstairs toilet or will these bubbles always force their way out? Note, this bathroom is at one end of the house and its waste line runs about 20 feet before it meets the waste lines from the upstairs. That means the bubbles back up 20 horizontal feet plus 4 or 5 vertical feet to come out the drain.

The laundry is one the second floor and the lowest drains are a toilet and shower on the first floor. When doing the laundry during or right after a heavy rain, one upstairs and the downstairs toilet sometimes gurgle. Recently, soap bubbles came up the downstairs shower drain and from under the new downstairs toilet. Also, should I replace the seal in the downstairs toilet or will these bubbles always force their way out? Note, this bathroom is at one end of the house and its waste line runs about 20 feet before it meets the waste lines from the upstairs. That means the bubbles back up 20 horizontal feet plus 4 or 5 vertical feet to come out the drain. What do you think is the cause? Tank full, main line blocked, partial blockage elsewhere, vent blockage?
It's sounds like the problem's downstream from the house. Locate the house clean out and open it up. (You should find it not over 18" out from the foundation on the same side as the septic tank. It might be buried under the soil so probe for it.) Once it's open cycle the washer. If the pipe fills up then the problem could very well be the tank full, main line blocked or a partial blockage. It doesn't sound like a blocked vent. I would focus on the septic system. Good luck, Tom

Speedball

Thanks for your quick reply. I'm sorry I didn't thank you sooner but I forgot my login information.

You confirmed what I suspected and it that it would be outside the house, but I'd have to flip a coin on whether to pump the tank or clear the line first. I guess the problem will always be whichever you pay to get checked second.

The septic people pumped out my tank and said my problem could be the offset waste line from the house to the tank OR my field is starting to fail. He recommended that I should consider getting my tank pumped out more often and putting in a 24" cleanout to replace the original 8" one we have. He said the bigger connection allowed him to better reach corners in the tank and do a better job cleaning. Sounds reasonable.

Do you think that the soap bubbles had enough force to break the seal between the toilet and the floor flange or was it just a bad seal to begin with? I just noticed that it now leaks with each flush. The problem here is the flange is much larger in diameter (maybe 9" or 10" OD by 5" or 6" ID) than a standard flange and, as such, the standard wax rings are too small. Should I just use an extra think ring or try to take a few rings and mold them by hand to fit the flange?

Do you think that the soap bubbles had enough force to break the seal between the toilet and the floor flange or was it just a bad seal to begin with? I just noticed that it now leaks with each flush. The problem here is the flange is much larger in diameter (maybe 9" or 10" OD by 5" or 6" ID) than a standard flange and, as such, the standard wax rings are too small. Should I just use an extra think ring or try to take a few rings and mold them by hand to fit the flange?
I think the seal may be ruptured or open. I would pull the toilet and replace the wax seal with one with a funnel. If you feel that there isn't enough wax to make a deceit seal you may add some from the old wax seal. Just make sure you bevel the wax outward so it doesn't spread inward and block the flow. Good luck, Tom