My son's father and I broke up in 2005, he was very physically abusive and I did not want my son to be apart of it, so I left him. After about a year or so, my son's father came after me for full custody of son. My son was about 1 1/2 at the time. My ex at this time had one DUI, a life's restraining order against him, two counts of misdemeanor destruction of property and multiple time of losing his license, driving without a license and detox stays. I have no criminal history what so ever. Needless to say my ex ended up getting full custody of my son and was sent 1000 miles away to live away from me with his father with me getting visitation one week per month. It was very hard for me to loose my first born that I raised all by myself and than just had him taken away. Went through counseling, depression, anger, the whole nine yards.

Well last year my son was 4 years old and I learned that while my son was in his custody permanently, my ex has had two more DUI's, two more counts of Domestic Violence, one bar fight incident where he was sent to jail, and had another son with a women he only knew for six months and then he gave up the baby and has a restraining order against him on the baby now as well. I took my ex back to court and the case was finalled in August of 2009 with the decision that my ex still has full custody of my son and I actually lost some visitation time with my son and have to pay a lot more child support. Now I promise that my criminal history is perfect, NOTHING on it what so ever so of course now I am really depressed and sad and angry and all I can think about is what if something ever happens to my son and no one in the court system ever listened to me who could have avoided it?

My main question is should I keep fighting for my son, because this is not right, legally, morally or under any circumstances. But as my son gets older I do not want him to grow up with the court system. It hurts me in every feeling and way possible. I almost feel that if I stop fighting than I will be a horrible mother, but then again it not only puts a hardship on my son to have to see this is whole life, but it puts a hardship on my family as well. It is just so emotionally draining... Should I just leave him alone and be there like the courts say, only during my visitation period?? Or should I fight for him because of the danger and how immorally wrong this is?? What is best for him??

Did you have a lawyer? And did you use the same one each time you went to court? On what grounds did they give him sole custody?

Oh my god.. . The judge should be kicked in the head.

Can I ask, you obviously did not have an attorney??

Im sorry you've had to go through that. It must have been hard.

Yes, I had three lawyers. One of them I actually fired because he just gave up and one of the lawyers was involved in both the first and second case and appeal. I also had two different CFI's and one child family phsychologist. Both CFI's were women and went totally against me. The phsychologist was very thorough and testified on my behalf but the judge through out his testimony because it I guess it went against what the other two CFI's said. The physchologist had negative and positive things to say about both of us, but he said my parenting skills and lifestyle all around was more stable for my son mainly because I have no issues with the law and have never harmed my children or put any of my children in harms way. It was all very confusing. I appealled the first case and lost because the courts found no grounds for an appeal or they found that my grounds for an appeal were not enough. The past two court cases I have spent easily over 75,000 dollars just trying to get good lawyers and the best CFI's and help with counseling and phsychologists. But everyone seems to tell me that they can't help, but they still take my money every time. I even had testimony from my son's father's ex wife which matched what the police reports said but since she was I guess a "hostile" witness a lot of her testimony did not count??

The only gounds the courts found to take my son was because I could not nurture a healthy relationship between my son and his father. And that was said because of all of the stories, police reports and bad things that he did to me, I told the courts. Nothing I ever said was false about him but it is true that I never said anything positive about him. But he repeatedly failed UA's during court and the judge through them out with no reason why, my ex made me and my husband take hair follicle tests and we passed, no problem with that but it made no difference. I still have evidence of everything until this day.

One really weird twist to this whole story is that when I went through my first custody case, my husband was going through his divorce and child custody at the very same time with his ex wife, we both had the same judge and both of our children lived in our household with us at the same time. The same judge, no more that 30 days apart, granted my husband with full custody of his daughter, but found our household not good enough for my son and gave him to his father??

What should I do now. I now something is wrong with the system, obviously, and it is corrupt, my ex and his family are very very wealthy. But should I stop and let my son go with his father or should I pursue fighting for something I know is not right? Am I bad mother if I just give up and let him be??

Believe It or not, I went through something like this... There was temporary orders though. I finally ran myself out of money but refused to give up. I eventually retained custody by using state legal services. This was free. And the best counsel team ever. Yes a team!

Believe It or not, I went through something like this... There was temporary orders though. I finally ran myself out of money but refused to give up. I eventually retained custody by using state legal services. This was free. And the best counsel team ever. Yes a team!

Thank, I appreciate that! I have thought of using state services, but I thought it would make me look like I couldn't afford to take care of my son if I can't afford a lawyer so that is why I hired one. I will definitely keep this in mind and at least it gives me some hope to not give up. Thank you!

Thank, I appreciate that! I have thought of using state services, but I thought it would make me look like I couldn't afford to take care of my son if I can't afford a lawyer so that is why I hired one. I will definitely keep this in mind and at least it gives me some hope to not give up. Thank you!

I really hope that you get your son back. Whatever state you are in, is full of a bunch of Jacka$$es. I can't believe the court would even CONSIDER giving a child to a parent on drugs that's been in and out of jail for assault and such, rather than giving the child to a nurturing mother. What in hell are they thinking? I want to go and kick the crap out of these absurd people.

I'm pissed at them for you.
You have my blessings. Just keep praying, and we'll be rooting for you.
Good luck! All hope is not lost, so DON'T give up. Your baby needs you!

I really hope that you get your son back. Whatever state you are in, is full of a bunch of Jacka$$es. I can't believe the court would even CONSIDER giving a child to a parent on drugs that's been in and out of jail for assault and such, rather than giving the child to a nurturing mother. What in hell are they thinking?! I want to go and kick the crap out of these absurd people.

I'm pissed at them for you.
You have my blessings. Just keep praying, and we'll be rooting for you.
Good luck! All hope is not lost, so DON'T give up. Your baby needs you!

Thank you, I appreciate everything and I will not stop. I guess it will just take more trying and more faith.

Thank you, I appreciate everything and I will not stop. I guess it will just take more trying and more faith.

Absolutely! Just know that all of us are here for support and encouragement. :)

Why couldn't there be a decision by jury?
I sat on a custody case once,my only time to sit on a jury,nightmare!

why couldnt there be a decision by jury?
I sat on a custody case once,my only time to sit on a jury,nightmare!!

I did not know you were allowed to have a jury for a child custody case. I think that would have been the best way to go though. I will have to look into that. Thank you, I appreciate the comment because I never thought of that.

I feel so sorry for you (as a mom)... why did they give custody to your husband? Tell us why they would take them away from you. You say he was abusive towards you? How, emotionally, physically?

"I have no criminal history what so ever. Needless to say my ex ended up getting full custody of my son and was sent 1000 miles away to live away from me with his father with me getting visitation one week per month."

How is this 'needless to say'?? How did this happen? I'm all right with the BS... but won't believe it. How could that happen... there's more of a story to this, what's going on with you Sprung. I don't personally believe everything I read, so give us an update here... why would a judge take away custody of a perfectly good mom and give it to a dad who's broken several laws??

Sorry bigblack, I feel the need to say that, Sprung did say, the court found negatives on both sides. If you haven't been through a custody dispute, don't think you know what your talking about. There are many factors that could have led to this outcome... One being, bad counsel. Two, lies. Three, custody evaluaters that don't like your race, religion, and or, views on parenting. In many instances these so called professionals have no credentials whatsoever. I had one removed from my case due to this.
In any case, does your 'answer' seem helpful to you?

Sorry bigblack, I feel the need to say that, Sprung did say, the court found negatives on both sides. If you havent been through a custody dispute, dont think you know what your talking about. There are many factors that could have led to this outcome...One being, bad counsel. Two, lies. Three, custody evaluaters that dont like your race, religion, and or, views on parenting. In many instances these so called professionals have no credentials whatsoever. I had one removed from my case due to this.
In any case, does your 'answer' seem helpful to you?

Bigblack, I promise I am not lying about anything. The negatives the CFI's found on my part were that I had my son when I was 17. That is it! I still finished high school with my graduating class with honors. I even had counselors and teachers testify that I had to take my son to school because I had no child care and his father refused to take him while I was at school. I actually went back to school three weeks after I had my son because I had him during the summer three weeks before school started. No one knows how hard it really is to go into a high school with a baby and sit through classes with your peers who are not nice nowadays and still be able to accomplish. When I say that I have proof of everything I am not lying. I have even gone the extent of spending extra money to get transcripts of all of the court hearings because I know that it is just to unbelievable to believe. Like I explained before, the courts say they gave custody to my son's father because I could not nurture a relationship between my son and his father.

I know the situation does not sound real, but again I promise it is. I am so angry, depressed, scared and astonished about everything that has happened that everyday I go over and over in my head what did I do wrong, when really deep inside myself I know I need to be asking what did the courts do wrong. This is the main reason I am sharing my story and need advice. I need to know what strangers think about the situation so maybe I can get a better grasp of what I need to do. Sometimes someone that does not know you is more willing to tell you the truth about the situation whether you want to hear it or not and I think no matter what the advice is I am ready to hear what anyone has to say about this. Thank you again Rockie, You really must have gone through something similar if you know that this is realistic and can happen to anyone. I appreciate all the help, advice and comments from anyone.

Once again, we're here for you!

My opinion is the old catch phrase
"money talks" usually when there is a decision that is biased money is behind it,and this was a biased decision.
The best thing for you (again opinion)is to do your best with the visits etc to be a mom,it is good you documented and kept EVERYTHING because one day when he is old enough your son is going to see those papers and he is going to know what his mom went through
And hopefully he will appreciate it.

my opinion is the old catch phrase
"money talks" usually when there is a decision that is biased money is behind it,and this was a biased decision.
The best thing for you (again opinion)is to do your best with the visits ect to be a mom,it is good you documented and kept EVERYTHING because one day when he is old enough your son is going to see those papers and he is going to know what his mom went through
and hopefully he will appreciate it.

I really hope you are right. I do not want to show him everything when he gets older because I want him to have his own opinion of his father but if it comes down to it I will have everything for him. And I definitely believe money talks, I tried not to believe that for so long, but it is true. Thank you~

why couldnt there be a decision by jury?
I sat on a custody case once,my only time to sit on a jury,nightmare!!

Where was this? And are you sure it was a custody case? I have never heard of a jury in Family Court. I suspect this was a civil trial that may have had a custody element.

Child issues are too important and too sensitive to leave up to a jury.

This was in montgomery county,TX
I think I would know what kind of case I sat on for 4 days sir
Thank you
Good day


So your saying one judge who could be biased is better than 12 citizens,you don't hold a high opinion of the citizens of the uinited states do you?

So your saying one judge who could be biased is better than 12 citizens,you dont hold a high opinion of the citizens of the uinited states do you?

I am going to look into it in my state and let everyone know if it can be done in my case, because I would have definitely preferred it.

How/why did you lose custody the first time around? It is highly unusual for a child to be taken from his/her mother and sent a distance to live with a father with a criminal record.

I suspect all of the info is not posted here.

How/why did you lose custody the first time around? It is highly unusual for a child to be taken from his/her mother and sent a distance to live with a father with a criminal record.

I suspect all of the info is not posted here.

If you read all of my other posts in reference to this I have explained that because I know it is hard to believe and others have said the same thing. The first time around in court, the judge ordered I could not nurture a relationship between my son and his father which is why he was given custody. The second time around the courts would not give me custody because they said there is no endangerment in my son's current household, which is crap. Many different lawyers have told me the only way I can get my son back now is if my son is in physical endangerment, which I don't understand how domestic violence and numerous DUI's are not endangerment?

How/why did you lose custody the first time around? It is highly unusual for a child to be taken from his/her mother and sent a distance to live with a father with a criminal record.

I suspect all of the info is not posted here.

And it is obvious that something does not add up here which is why I am asking for any type of advice at all. I have thought about going on talkshows, writing a book, writing the president, the news channels, everything, but then you get into legalities of using real or fake names, which I don't know about.

When was the last actual custody hearing. Not appeal but an actual case filing ? Also Im going to assume this came from somewhere else and its now been moved to the law board and here it isn't as touchy feely because we try to base answers on the law. Im sure judy as a respected member did read the previuos postings and that's why none of this is making sense. Im even in disbelief. Something really strange is going on.

This was in montgomery county,TX
I think I would know what kind of case I sat on for 4 days sir
thank you
good day

Apparently not. I just checked several Texas sites including this one:
Montgomery County Circuit Court - Jury Office (http://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/cictmpl.asp?url=/content/circuitcourt/jurors/index.asp#_What_types_of)

And every site says juries sit on either criminal or civil cases. And they all indicate that Family court is not considered a civil court.


So your saying one judge who could be biased is better than 12 citizens,you dont hold a high opinion of the citizens of the uinited states do you?

I hold a very high opinion of US citizens individually and on their own. I don't have such a high opinion of a group of laymen being able to interpret correctly the law in various situations. There are times when I think a jury trial is the better choice and there are times when it isn't. And Family Court is one place where I feel knowledge of the law and adherence to it is paramount.

But this isn't about me and it was off base of you to try and make it that way. Bottom line is as far as I knew Family Courts do not allow jury trials. Another reason for this is people don't, generally, want to air their dirty linen before their neighbors. So, since I was unaware of any Family courts that allow jury trials I questioned it a I would question anyone who posted information that I thought was inaccurate.

As my research shows it would not appear that Montogomery County in Texas does not allow Jury trials in Family court.


our first silent vote was like 9 for him and 3 for her

Ok, you've stepped in it again. According to my research of Texas courts only Criminal courts have a 12 member panel. Civil courts use a 6 member panel. So even if Family court was considered a civil court you would not have a 12 member panel.

When was the last actual custody hearing. Not appeal but an actual case filing ? Also Im going to assume this came from somewhere else and its now been moved to the law board and here it isnt as touchy feely because we try to base answers on the law. Im sure judy as a respected member did read the previuos postings and thats why none of this is making sense. Im even in disbelief. Something really strange is going on.

I didn't want to be rude to Judy because I was trying to explain that I know and understand that a lot of people would question this issue.

The last custody hearing was started in Oct of 2008 and the final court date for that was held in August of 2009. Something really bad is going on, I really believe that the courts (judge) was paid off, because my ex, mainly his mom is very wealthy and I am average. I am not wealthy what so ever but I pay all of my bills on my own every month. Everyone can't believe my story but just think if it was you, what would you do? When I lived it I almost had the feeling that I didn't want to be apart of the USA anymore because of all the corruption. It has taken me five years to tell all of you this which is a huge step for me.

and that the thing Sprung
you may spend alot of money that could go to a college fund ect. and loose because there are so many people that think money buys happiness,like I said it was 9 in his favor for a long time,i would suggest what i said earlier and is there anyway you can move,i wouldnt want to be in the same time but closer maybe how can you be expected to travel ,is it half way apiece?

The one fair thing was that airfare is split 50/50 monthly, but the amount of child support I pay in one month for one child would buy him two or three tickets for one month.

I didn't want to be rude to Judy because I was trying to explain that I know and understand that a lot of people would question this issue.

The last custody hearing was started in Oct of 2008 and the final court date for that was held in August of 2009. Something really bad is going on, I really believe that the courts (judge) was paid off, because my ex, mainly his mom is very wealthy and I am average. I am not wealthy what so ever but I pay all of my bills on my own every month. Everyone can't believe my story but just think if it was you, what would you do? When I lived it I almost had the feeling that I didn't want to be apart of the USA anymore because of all the corruption. It has taken me five years to tell all of you this which is a huge step for me.

If your asking my opinion on what I would do the first thing would be to move closer to my child if your goal is custody. That way you can be closer to the solution. The next thing is to examine the court system your sealing with. Most don't allow for changes in custody unless there are changed circumstances or aprox 2 years has passed. You can do an end around and keep getting more and more time until there is an opening for dramatic change. Your staements of 3 lawyers and CFI's and everything sounds like your doing too much at one time. You have to focus and keep your etes on the prize. By all means get things in writing and get the court to approve them. Things like if dad is unavailable then you have the right to the child. That can mean if he is arrested and goes to jail you can get the child. If your too far away you can't do things like that. Another thing is you need to narrow your focus. You going in too many directions. Plan ahead and document but again from 1000 miles away that becomes impossible. You need to really take a look at what's going on.

im telling you i sat on this case in july of 1999,so i really can't say anything else your going to call me a liar?

First, I received some additional info that may support your statement. This link: http://www.texasbar.com/Template.cfm?Section=Texas_Bar_Journal1&Template=/ContentManagement/ContentDisplay.cfm&ContentID=15917 is to an article that discusses the decline of jury trials in Texas.

This article does discuss that in 1986, 7% of jury verdicts were from "family law and juvenile cases". However, the article goes on to cite figures for 2005. In doing so, it refers ONLY to criminal and Civil cases. From this and from the research I did, there may have been changes between 1986 and 2005 that eliminated the jury option from Family Court. Which leaves open the possibility that in 1999 they were allowed. And that they used a full 12 person jury.

But it seems clear, from my research, that they are not allowed now and that Civil juries use a 6 person panel. I'm not going to waste my time seeing if the laws have changed since 1999. I will, however, state that, while you may very while have been part of a Family court jury 10 years ago, that wouldn't be the case today.

And that will be the end of this discussion. We now return this thread to the OP ;)

I appreciate that the OP was not rude to me; however, I did read all of her posts. I work in the system. I investigate these cases.

I have two concerns. There HAD to be some evidence which was NOT favorable to the OP/mother. There HAD to be some evidence which WAS favorable to the father.

As soon as the "conversation" turns to Judges who are paid off I lose interest.

Either an Attorney did not do his/her job OR something isn't being posted.

An initial appeal should have been successful if things are as stated.

As far as writing a book, going on TV - I'd channel that energy into improving whatever life situation the Court found to be unfavorable to the OP and/or finding another Attorney.

I'm afraid I have to agree with Judy. Traditionally courts have given the mother preference in determining custody. So when a father gets custody over a mother, especially when there is such a distance involved, it's a very unusual situation. To accept that a judge awarded custody to a father simply because the judge felt the mother was driving a wedge between the father and the son stretches credulity. More so, if that was the only stated reason in the decision, I would think that would be prime grounds for appeal as that would indicate the judge may have overstepped the bounds of the law. This is not to say I don't understand the judge's ruling. Too often the children suffer most in a contentious custody battle. I can understand a judge who believes that one parent is trying to put down the other ruling against that parent. But not solely on those grounds.

So I have to be skeptical that we are getting the full story here. Not that the OP is not telling the truth, just not all of it.

But, to answer the question asked in the subject, you should never stop fighting for child, NEVER! All that does is give the child a sense of abandonment.

What you should be doing is striving to maintain a civil relationship with the father. Work together to provide your son with the best environment possible under the circumstances.

As an aside, NYS just enacted laws upping the severity of the crime of DUI with a child in the car. Your area may have similar laws. If you find your husband arrested for such, then I would immediately file for a change of custody. I would NOT however, attack your husband over it, but take the tact that your ONLY concern is the safety of your child.

- Or that the OP just simply doesn't understand the decision or the process by which it was reached.

Without knowing more about living situations, income, support of family members, it is impossible to add anything more.

- IOr that the OP just simply doesn't understand the decision or the process by which it was reached.

Without knowing more about living situations, income, support of family members, it is impossible to add anything more.

That is the only reason the judge gave custody to my son's father. I have nothing wrong. I make a lot more money than my ex, I have lived in the same home since all of this started, I have the same job since all of this started and moved up in my job. Everything is true that has happened.

I live in Colorado and all cases have been through the same county.

If what you two are saying is true, then what could be the reasoning of why the same judge with in 30 days of ruling gave full custody for my step daughter to my husband and I but took custody away from me with my son? We both live in the same household and testified for each other in each case, so the judge was very aware that we both had open child custody cases at the same time. My husbands ex wife has no criminal history what so ever either, same job, stable etc. etc. So if I am good enough to take care of my step daughter, why not my own son?

You say that's the only reason the judge gave. Do you mean this is the grounds written in the decision handed down by the court or was it something he said to you in court?

If what you are telling is accurate (and I have no doubt you believe it to be) then his ruling makes no sense. We are as incredulous as you are. What I find even more incredulous is that you had 3 lawyers looking at this case and none of them could overturn this decision.

That's why we have trouble believing we are getting the whole story. The story as you relate it makes no sense. Again, you may believe it's the whole story, but we have hard time doing so.

You say that's the only reason the judge gave. Do you mean this is the grounds written in the decision handed down by the court or was it something he said to you in court?

If what you are telling is accurate (and I have no doubt you believe it to be) then his ruling makes no sense. We are as incredulous as you are. What I find even more incredulous is that you had 3 lawyers looking at this case and none of them could overturn this decision.

That's why we have trouble believing we are getting the whole story. The story as you relate it makes no sense. Again, you may believe its the whole story, but we have hard time doing so.

Agreed.
It is very hard to believe that it is the whole story.

If you haven't been through a custody dispute, don't think you know what your talking about.
In any case, does your 'answer' seem helpful to you?[/QUOTE]

You are absolutely right... I'm not sure how I ended up in family law - I thought I was in another section before I answered this question - no experience to answer here at all!

Does my answer seem helpful? Errrr, yes, it does, because I didn't just accept the OP's initial explanation and wanted more info... very helpful in my opinion, rather than offering completely speculative advice. If that seems helpful for you, so be it. It's not realistic for me.

If you havent been through a custody dispute, dont think you know what your talking about.
In any case, does your 'answer' seem helpful to you?

You are absolutely right... I'm not sure how I ended up in family law - I thought I was in another section before I answered this question - no experience to answer here at all!

Does my answer seem helpful? Errrr, yes, it does, because I didn't just accept the OP's initial explanation and wanted more info... very helpful in my opinion, rather than offering completely speculative advice. If that seems helpful for you, so be it. It's not realistic for me.[/QUOTE]


Problem is that this is a legal thread - unfortunately the law is written in black and white and not shades of gray.

Speculative advice really isn't helpful and "we" who post here take great pride in our answers. What appears helpful to you may very well simply cloud the waters.

I have no idea how you ended up in the Family Law section without realizing it.

You say that's the only reason the judge gave. Do you mean this is the grounds written in the decision handed down by the court or was it something he said to you in court?

If what you are telling is accurate (and I have no doubt you believe it to be) then his ruling makes no sense. We are as incredulous as you are. What I find even more incredulous is that you had 3 lawyers looking at this case and none of them could overturn this decision.

That's why we have trouble believing we are getting the whole story. The story as you relate it makes no sense. Again, you may believe its the whole story, but we have hard time doing so.

No, it is put in my legal permanent orders saying this is the reasoning. I did fire one lawyer, the other two just went along I guess and when the appeal process came along, one lawyer backed out of that part and the other lawyer took it on but came back with nothing from the courts.