An elected leader bows before an anointed emperor; excuse me while I puke.

I think Obama is wonderful to acknowledge a senior, anointed emperor. He is setting a precedent worldwide.

Tick

He's grovelling

Want to know what really happened here ? The President is getting his protocol training from the Evita State Dept . He's been punked .
Login | Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/notes/michael-v-pelletier/is-obama-getting-punkd-by-the-clinton-department-of-state/216219819672)

Actually, I see this as one more case of him practicing the ancient art of kissing @$$. If he bows over any further, he'll be able to kiss his own @$$, thus completing his bid to be the biggest @$$ kissing world leader in history.

Elliot

"Love is in the air, everywhere you look around..."

http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/files/2008/04/300_bush-saudi.jpg

You old people crack me up!

You old people crack me up!
It doesn't take much to get all hot and bothered.

"Get off my lawn you kids!"

I hate that... getting punked... bet jesus was pissed after he washed the feet of his disciples.

Fool.

Hello kp:

Wow, dude. You shut 'em up like I've never been able to shut 'em up.

So, Jesus never invaded anybody, huh? But, I'll bet he had a Gitmo for the Romans, no?

excon

The reason I did not respond was because the comment was incomprehensible.

the reason I did not respond was because the comment was incomprehensible.
Pretty sums up the whole point of the thread.

Hello kp:

Wow, dude. You shut 'em up like I've never been able to shut 'em up.

Um, besides what tom said, the subject was already addressed on another thread.


So, Jesus never invaded anybody, huh? But, I'll bet he had a Gitmo for the Romans, no?

I think they call it Hell. And you think indefinite detention at Gitmo is bad?

Let us pray... PS 109:8

I think they call it Hell. And you think indefinite detention at Gitmo is bad?Hello again, Steve:

That's a goodun.

excon

let us pray ....PS 109:8

LOL... now THAT was a goodun. :D

Michael Ramirez captured the moment:

http://hotair.cachefly.net/images/2009-11/ramirez-bow.jpg

"The rich rule over the poor, and the borrower is servant to the lender." Proverbs 22:7

1 John 4:20-21
If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen. And he has given us this command: Whoever loves God must also love his brother.

"The rich rule over the poor, and the borrower is servant to the lender." Proverbs 22:7Hello George:

Speak softly and carry a big stick... West African proverb.

excon

Hello George:

Speak softly and carry a big stick... West African proverb.

excon

Naaaa, you mis-speak: It is, Speak softly and denigrate your country. Obama

Proverbs 17:7

Hosea 13:16
Deuteronomy 23:1
Ezekiel 23:19-20
Deuteronomy 25:11-12

Hello again, Righty's:

If the only argument you got left is scripture, then my job here is done.

excon

Hello again, Righty's:

If the only argument you got left is scripture, then my job here is done.

excon

Didn't want you and yours to think you owned it partner.

John 4:4 ( has nothing to do with the question, but heck I like bible verses also.

I think he did the proper think, bowing is a custom much like the handshake in the US, and had he not bowed, it would have been very disrespectful.

I am glad he did, it was the proper form of greeting.

I find it odd that NK quotes the bible, a book he does not believe in. That is like me quoting out of the mouth of the "flying spaghetti monster."

I don't think it is a bad thing [ sorry about the double negative ] for a US president to be aware of a cultural norm and show humilty and respect, but I find the bow gratuitous compared to the bow the Japanese gave.

So what is next? The next time a championship team visits the Whitehouse, will POTUS Obama pour gatorade on the coach [ Calipari ;) ]?


G&P

He can bow, show humility, and apologize, in private.

Hello again, Righty's:

If the only argument you got left is scripture, then my job here is done.

NK is a righty?

John 4:4 ( has nothing to do with the question, but heck I like bible verses also.

I think he did the proper think, bowing is a custom much like the handshake in the US, and had he not bowed, it would have been very disrespectful.

I am glad he did, it was the proper form of greeting.

I just spent half the day with a bunch of Korean bankers. I didn't bow to a single one of them, and nobody took it amiss. They were quite well aware of the fact that I am an American and they were not insulted by the fact that I didn't bow to them, despite the fact that ONE OF THEM WAS MY BOSS. Nobody had a problem with it. (My boss even bought me lunch today, which he would not have done if he was insulted.)

Sorry, but I don't buy the line that the President of the USA should be bowing to ANYONE. He is NOT expected to do so, and not doing so is NOT taken as an insult. Anyone who argues that it is an insult has not actually dealt with the Asian community for very long. Frankly, Asians in general and Japanese in specific don't get insulted by that sort of thing. Japanese are some of the friendliest, most polite people in the world, and they don't get insulted by someone not bowing to them, especially when that person outranks them in the social/political strata.

The idea that someone will get insulted if the President of the USA doesn't bow to them is a myth. We've been dealing with the Japanese for over 100 years now, and no President has ever bowed to one of their dignitaries... and nobody has taken insult from it.

The idea that they would is pure BS made up by Hollywood movie-makers who like chop-saki stories about comic-book Samurai who get insulted easily and then spend the rest of the film trying to "avenge their honor".

Get real folks.

Elliot

I find it odd that NK quotes the bible, a book he does not believe in. That is like me quoting out of the mouth of the "flying spaghetti monster."


Wait... you don't believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster? What kind of heretic are you?!

:eek:

Elliot

...
Sorry, but I don't buy the line that the President of the USA should be bowing to ANYONE. ...

The idea that someone will get insulted if the President of the USA doesn't bow to them is a myth.
...
Elliot

Political correctness, run amuck, indeed.

The idea that they would is pure BS made up by Hollywood movie-makers who like chop-saki stories about comic-book Samurai who get insulted easily and then spend the rest of the film trying to "avenge their honor".Hello again, Elliot:

Here's another thing you guys miss. The IDEA of diplomacy isn't to avoid insulting people. It's to engage with them.. Honoring them, even if not doing so wouldn't insult them, is a good thing.

That would be, of course, if you understood diplomacy and even just plain good manners. Alas, and alack - you don't. Now, bombing is something you understand.. But, talking about stuff - not so much.

Besides, the only ones who're insulted by his greeting is you guys, and Obama don't you guys crap.

excon

Hello again, Elliot:

Here's another thing you guys miss. The IDEA of diplomacy isn't to avoid insulting people. It's to engage with them.. Honoring them, even if not doing so wouldn't insult them, is a good thing.

That would be, of course, if you understood diplomacy and even just plain good manners. Alas, and alack - you don't. Now, bombing is something you understand.. But, talking about stuff - not so much.

Besides, the only ones who're insulted by his greeting is you guys, and Obama don't you guys crap.

excon

So @$$-kissing is now "engagement". The President not bowing down to foreign leaders is "bad manners".

That's what you get when you have a lib in power redefining common terminology for political purposes... in this case, in order to 'apologize' for the evils of the USA.

Sorry, excon, but not bowing down to the Japanese wasn't "bad manners" before Obama came to office, and it ain't "bad manners" today. And we were engaged with the Japanese for the past 60 years, nothing has changed that would make us have to engage them further today.

It's just @$$-kissing, plain and simple.

Elliot

Here's another thing you guys miss. The IDEA of diplomacy isn't to avoid insulting people. It's to engage with them.. Honoring them, even if not doing so wouldn't insult them, is a good thing.

My first post on the subject noted that even the Japanese didn't want an American president that looked weak, which is what they saw in this bow. Is that how we honor them, by showing we're weak?


That would be, of course, if you understood diplomacy and even just plain good manners. Alas, and alack - you don't. Now, bombing is something you understand.. But, talking about stuff - not so much.

And what about our norm which is American presidents shouldn't bow to monarchs? Keep at it though ex, you'll have plenty more opportunities to defend the amateur you guys elected.

O is for Obsequious .
Plain and simple American Presidents are the EQUAL of any foreign leader. Bowing is a sign of subservience and submission . In the world of diplomacy that type of symbolism is treated seriously . Our allies don't expect it and our enemies see it as a sign of weakness .Neither Japan or the US needs an American President that appears weak. If someone can show me this bow in the Japanese press I'll be surprised.

These are freshman errors that the Obama administration should've corrected by now.

Besides symbolism what is this President actually accomplishing on his 7th apology tour junket ? Has he a deal yet to stop the NORK nukes ? Nope.Has he made progress on Iran ? No ,he has run into a dead end and even he has to see his style of personal diplomacy doesn't impress the Mahdi Hatter and the Ayatollahs. An arms reduction treaty with Russia is about to expire with no new one negotiated yet. And yesterday he disappointed the Europeans by saying that Copenhagen talks are DOA .

If someone can show me all his peers at these Asian summits bowing to the cermonial Emperor of Japan then I'll prehaps believe it is some custom that if ignored would be an insult to the Japanese.
Meanwhile this novice President who is so concerned about appearances gave a hearty greeting to the thug dictator of Myanmar... oops I mean Burma ,Gen. Thein Sein,. while at the same time refusing to meet with fellow Peace Prize recipient the Dhali Lama .

This President makes no lip service at all about human rights abuses in China. It used to be a practice for the Chinese, in a gesture of good will,to release a dissident ,a political prisoner or two when an American President or Sec State was visiting . On this trip they are arresting dissidents. He held a town hall in Shanghai of hand picked students that the Chinese heavily censored .Reporters were told to stop questioning the students after the event . And he knowingly participated in the charade.
But has he come away with a trade agreement with the Chinese or even an understanding towards one ? None that I can tell. The last I saw he was engaged in a petty trade war with the Chinese that threatens to explode into something significant.

Because he is immune from critique by the MSM they chose to ignore this obvious breach of protocol. But 15 years ago ,Bill Clintoon did a head bow to the Emperor of Japan during one of these events ,and the NY Slimes took him to task .

THE WORLD; The President's Inclination: No, It Wasn't a Bow-Bow - The New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/1994/06/19/weekinreview/the-world-the-president-s-inclination-no-it-wasn-t-a-bow-bow.html)

Bowing is a sign of subservience and submission . In the world of diplomacy that type of symbolism is treated seriously . Our allies don't expect it and our enemies see it as a sign of weakness Really? So what happens now? What earth shattering change of events do you expect to occur because you are now the world's b!tches?

Nope.Has he made progress on Iran ?

Not only that, word is now that El Baradei has made a secret deal (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article6919329.ece) to persuade the world to lift sanctions and allow Iran to retain most of it's nuclear program... allegedly (and likely) "to secure his legacy." That my friends, is what Obama is all about, securing his legacy.

Really? So what happens now? What earth shattering change of events do you expect to occur because you are now the world's b!tches?

Are you really that naïve?

Are you really that naive?You said that it was treated seriously; what did you mean by that?

You may have a point though. The last time a Republican president held hands with a saudi king over 3,000 lives were lost at the hands of terrorists from... Saudi Arabia! Yet you still keep a strong alliance with them. Why is that?

You said that it was treated seriously; what did you mean by that?

I know, we all look alike. You might ask tom that question since he was the one who made the statement.


You may have a point though. The last time a Republican president held hands with a saudi king over 3,000 lives were lost at the hands of terrorists from... Saudi Arabia! Yet you still keep a strong alliance with them. Why is that?

That was in 2005, 4 years after 9/11 and as far as I for one do not excuse Bush's hand holding. Let's see the same kind of bipartisan scorn Bush received for that when it comes to Obama's kowtowing and groveling. Fair enough?

What I meant about the world taking it seriously can be found in the Jake Tapper report about the incident .
“The bow as he performed it did not just display weakness in Red State terms, but evoked weakness in Japanese terms. . . . The last thing the Japanese want or need is a weak-looking American president and, again, in all ways, he unintentionally played that part.”

I'll quote the Slimes article about the Clintoon bow

It lasted no longer than a snapshot, but the image on the South Lawn was indelible: an obsequent President, and the Emperor of Japan. Canadians still bow to England Queen. So do Australians. Americans shake hands. If not to stand eye-to-eye with royalty, what else were 1776 and all that about?”


His bow is not intended to show his politeness .It is intended to diminish his own country.
Michael Ramirez Cartoon (http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/PhotoPopup.aspx?id=512640)

That was in 2005, 4 years after 9/11 and as far as I for one do not excuse Bush's hand holding. Let's see the same kind of bipartisan scorn Bush received for that when it comes to Obama's kowtowing and groveling. Fair enough?So obviously Bush's dimishing of your country had no ill effects did it.

His bow is not intended to show his politeness .It is intended to diminish his own country. Hello again, tom:

Do you hate my country so much that you would denigrate my president simply because you disagree with his policies??

I suppose anybody who would besmirch my country's name by turning us into torturers, doesn't care much what he says about his president.

America, love it or leave it!

excon

So obviously Bush's dimishing of your country had no ill effects did it.

I don't know what "dimishing" is, but it was not a proud moment. You've raised the issue how many times as an embarrassment? You tell me if it had any ill effects.

Ex I want to know why he hates his country so much. Even the NY Slimes called bowing inappropriate and gave the same reason I have been giving.

Take your blinders off .He is embarrassed by the country ;it's history and traditions .So he attempts to embarrass it in turn.

I want to know why he hates his country so much.
Judging by your posts and threads I have the same question for you: why do you hate your country so much? You say absolutely nothing positive about it.

Hello again, tom:

I want to offer my apologies for accusing you of not loving your country.. It's not true, and I know it. As a patriot myself, I how much it hurts to be accused of that.

Frankly, it's not my style, and I only did it to parody the right, anyway. But it fell on deaf ears. It IS a right wing schtick, after all. I promise that MY participation on these pages will not drop to that level again...

On that same note, no matter what the policy under discussion is, I'm going to presume that the speaker, or the presenter of that policy ALSO loves his country, even though HIS fix may be different than mine. So, if you accuse HIM of not loving his country just because you don't agree with his fix, I'm going to call you on it.

excon

Ex He may love the country . I made no judgement on that . But he has been very blunt on his intention to diminish the country .That appears to be the central plank of his doctrine. Maybe that's done out of love . I don't know .

I intend to go with the same mantra I heard from the Bush opponents ;that all dissent is patriotic regardless of the merit of the position being opposed . I saw them when they were the minority call American soldiers terrorists, Nazis, and cold-blooded murderers. They snubbed and insulted our allies, and did everything in their power to prevent the successful prosecution of the war against jihadistan. I see no difference in their policies now that they are the majority .

I see their approach as dangerous to the country because I think that indeed our enemies see exaggerated bowing as a weakness ;and even if that is not real ,it is still a dangerous perception to foster . We have responsibilities to free nations in the region from alliances we have with them. They include nations like Japan ,South Korea,Taiwan and others.They face real threats with a China that is growing in strength ,and a rogue North Korea .The perception of weakness makes out allies unsure of our commitments .

Ex He may love the country . I made no judgement on that . But he has been very blunt on his intention to diminish the country .Hello again, tom:

I suspect that he wouldn't have been elected if he said that he was going to "diminish" the country. That's YOUR word, and YOUR opinion about what his policies will do...

Of course, I could say that he was very blunt about his intention to re-establish America's greatness... In fact, I'm going to say that..

excon

Of course, I could say that he was very blunt about his intention to re-establish America's greatness... In fact, I'm gonna say that..

excon

Obama's off to a 'great' start, in his "war of necessity":

"Morale has fallen among soldiers in Afghanistan, where troops are seeing record violence in the 8-year-old war, while those in Iraq show much improved mental health amid much less violence, the Army said Friday." Army: Soldiers' morale is down in Afghanistan - St. Petersburg Times (http://www.tampabay.com/incoming/army-soldiers-morale-is-down-in-afghanistan/1051739)

Maybe he's a little prouder of his country than his wife...

"For the first time in my adult lifetime, I'm really proud of my country."

I must have missed Obama's words that said he was going to reestablish America's greatness, I do recall him repeatedly claiming he would restore America's 'standing' in the world, whatever the heck that means.

I have a hunch Obama is directing the Afghanistan situation into a 'crisis', so that he can get his 'fix' on it, as well.

Let's see: how many of these 'crises' do we have for this 'great' leader to solve? Perhaps there is a branch of Acorn in Afghanistan?

Looking at that photo again:
Obama is what 6'1'' and the Japanese in that picture look like 5' tall - maybe that is why Obama bent so low. :confused:

This scene has probably been in several kung fu movies: the student and the teacher bow to each before sparring, but the teacher smacks the student in the head as he bows saying that grasshopper, or any such nickname, should keep his eye on the opponent at all times.

Obama should always keep his eyes open, lest he gets smacked ;)


G&P

Here was the diagram he used to study proper form for the grovel bow

http://morningcoffeephysics.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/drinkingbird.jpg?w=240&h=241 (http://go2.wordpress.com/?id=725X1342&site=morningcoffeephysics.wordpress.com&url=http%3A%2F%2Fscitation.aip.org%2Fgetabs%2Fserv let%2FGetabsServlet%3Fprog%3Dnormal%26id%3DAJPIAS0 00071000012001257000001%26idtype%3Dcvips%26gifs%3D yes)

Looking at that photo again:
Obama is what 6'1'' and the Japanese in that picture look like 5' tall - maybe that is why Obama bent so low. :confused:

This scene has probably been in several kung fu movies: the student and the teacher bow to each before sparring, but the teacher smacks the student in the head as he bows saying that grasshopper, or any such nickname, should keep his eye on the opponent at all times.

Obama should always keep his eyes open, lest he gets smacked ;)


G&P

ITB, you just proved my point. All of this stuff about a President not bowing being some form of insult is just chop-saki flick nonsense. Nobody in Japan actually expects ANY American to bow as part of a normal greeting, much less the President of the United States.

Elliot

Of course, I could say that he was very blunt about his intention to re-establish America's greatness... In fact, I'm gonna say that..

Like I said before, his pledge was to "restore America's standing in the world," not America's greatness. Well, mission accomplished...

Obama: 'We've restored America's standing' (http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/11/18/obama.henry/index.html)

Did you catch Barack "I love myself" Obama's video commemoration of the fall of the Berlin Wall (he didn't have time to make a personal appearance)?


PRESIDENT OBAMA was too busy to attend the celebrations in Germany this week marking the fall of the Berlin Wall 20 years ago. But he did appear by video, delivering a few brief and bloodless remarks about how the wall was "a painful barrier between family and friends" that symbolized "a system that denied people the freedoms that should be the right of every human being." He referred to "tyranny," but never identified the tyrants -- he never uttered the words "Soviet Union" or "communism," for example. He said nothing about the men and women who died trying to cross the wall. Nor did he mention Harry Truman or Ronald Reagan -- or even Mikhail Gorbachev.

He did, however, talk about Barack Obama (http://www.jeffjacoby.com/6564/obama-and-the-great-i-am).

"Few would have foreseen," declared the president, "that a united Germany would be led by a woman from [the former East German state of] Brandenburg or that their American ally would be led by a man of African descent. But human destiny is what human beings make of it."

As presidential rhetoric goes, this was hardly a match for "Ich bin ein Berliner," still less another "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall." But as a specimen of presidential narcissism, it is hard to beat. Obama couldn't be troubled to visit Berlin to commemorate a momentous milestone in the history of human liberty. But he was glad to explain to those who were there why reflections on that milestone should inspire appreciation for the self-made "destiny" of his own rise to power.

Was there ever a president as deeply enamored of himself as Barack Obama?

The first President Bush, taught from childhood to shun what his mother called "The Great I Am," regularly instructed his speechwriters not to include too many "I's" in his prepared remarks. Ronald Reagan maintained that there was no limit to what someone could achieve if he didn't mind who got the credit. George Washington, one of the most accomplished men of his day, said with characteristic modesty on becoming president that he was "peculiarly conscious of his own deficiencies."

Obama, on the other hand, positively revels in The Great I Am.

"I think that I'm a better speechwriter than my speechwriters," he told campaign aides when he was running for the White House. "I know more about policies on any particular issue than my policy directors. And I'll tell you right now that . . . I'm a better political director than my political director."

At the start of his presidency, Obama seemed to content himself with the royal "we" -- "We will build the roads and bridges . . . We will restore science to its rightful place . . . We will harness the sun and winds," he declaimed at his inauguration.

But as the literary theorist Stanley Fish points out, "By the time of the address to the Congress on Feb. 24, the royal we [had] flowered into the naked 'I': 'As soon as I took office, I asked this Congress.' 'I called for action.' 'I pushed for quick action.' 'I have told each of my cabinet.' 'I've appointed a proven and aggressive inspector general.' 'I refuse to let that happen.' 'I will not spend a single penny.' 'I reject the view that says our problems will simply take care of themselves.' 'I held a fiscal summit where I pledged to cut the deficit in half.'" In his speech on the federal takeover of GM, Obama likewise found it necessary to use the first-person singular pronoun 34 times. ("Congress" he mentioned just once.)

At this rate, it won't be long before the president's ego is so inflated that it will require a ZIP code of its own.

Whatever happened to "yes we can?"

Thanks for these interesting pictures. Obama is really a nice human being.

http://image.patriotpost.us.s3.amazonaws.com/2009-11-24-humor-king.jpg

Dear god tom, how old are you?

Great cartoon, Mr. Tom.

"Obama's Nice Guy Act Gets Him Nowhere on the World Stage"

"The Asia trip revealed the limits of Washington's new foreign policy: Although Obama did not lose face in China and Japan, he did appear to have lost some of his initial stature."

Conclusion: "A shift to Bush-style bluntness may be coming."
US Foreign Policy: Obama's Nice Guy Act Gets Him Nowhere on the World Stage - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International (http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,662822,00.html)

Here's another one .

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/rids/20091118/i/r3100408959.jpg?x=400&y=280&q=85&sig=D34F4tkrlJgAMShzwJxVNA--

Obama bows to the Communist Premier of China.

Yes, that's what they do in asian culture. You need to get out more.

American President's don't represent Asian culture. American Presidents don't bow to other leaders period.

Even the libs here understand that .Here is Obama koolaid sucker and liberal columnist Richard Cohen.



The Obama who was leading a movement of professed political purity is the very same person who as president would not meet with the Dalai Lama, lest he annoy the very sensitive Chinese. He is the same man who bowed to the emperor of Japan when, in my estimation, the president of the United States should bow to no man. He is the same president who in China played the mannequin for the Chinese government, appearing at stage-managed news conference and appearances - and having his remarks sometimes censored. When I saw him in that picture alone on the Great Wall, he seemed to be saying, "What the hell am I doing here?" If so, it was a good question.

Richard Cohen: The Obama I remember - Press-Telegram (http://www.presstelegram.com/opinions/ci_13852036)

Didn't know who that guy was: Richard Cohen (Washington Post columnist) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Cohen_%28Washington_Post_columnist%29)
Now I do. He wouldn't be a guy whose opinion I would follow.

American President's don't represent Asian culture. American Presidents don't bow to other leaders period.

Even the libs here understand that .Here is Obama koolaid sucker and liberal columnist Richard Cohen.


Richard Cohen: The Obama I remember - Press-Telegram (http://www.presstelegram.com/opinions/ci_13852036)

Is the honeymoon finished?

Is the honeymoon finished?tom is married?

At least one of Obama's bows has paid off, his grandmother is going on the Hajj at Mecca courtesy of King Abdullah (http://www.adnkronos.com/AKI/English/Religion/?id=3.0.4036802442).

On another presidential note, the White House turkeys are pardoned (http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/2009/11/obama_pardons_turkey_makes_fun.asp). "All told, I believe it's fair to say that we have saved or created four turkeys."

http://image.patriotpost.us.s3.amazonaws.com/2009-11-24-humor-king.jpg

Oh that is really a very funny picture. Cartoons always make the fun double.