I am seeking help for my son. He has tried for years to deal with this situation on his own at no avail. When he was 18 years old he moved out of the house into a roommate situation and they threw a party. A girl at the party decided to sleep with every guy in the house. She found my son passed out on the bathroom floor and forced him to have sex with her.. He told her no and tried to push her off. But he could not stop her. Then came a baby girl. In the beginning my son did not want me to help him with this situation he said he can deal with it. Well the dealings did not go so well he got 20% custody and had to pay top dollar amount of child support. He got to see his little girl once.

After that the family refused to let him see the little girl. The other family kept coming up with excuses that they had plans they where busy. My son struggled to maintain paying child support. There was times he was unemployed and fell behind on child support but he still managed to get another job and still paid. My son in the mean time was married and now divorce has another child who lives with him 100% my grandson is 7 years old. He is a wonderful father to his son. His son is the smartest kid in his second grade class. The mother of the little girl we could not locate her for years. We have finally found them she moved out of the county she was living in before. My son tried calling her and she refuses to return calls. She finally returned one call and said he was a felon. My son has never even been in Jail he is not a felon. I tried to call her and she hung up on me as soon as I said who I was.

This little girl deserves to be with her father and her brother too. She deserves to be with her grandparents too. My grandson keeps asking about his little sister and it is very hard to explain it to him. My son wants 50% custody of the child. We need to know how to make this happen. We do not have a lot of money my son's funds are tapped out because he pays so much child support the mother of the little girl makes 4 times more than he does. He struggles financially to raise his son. He lives with my husband and I and works 70 to 80 hour a week.

My son has gone to the courts legal assistance department numerous times and they keep telling him he has the wrong paper work. The paper work is very confusing. I have even tried calling the child support department and they where very rude to me on the phone.

This is pretty sad when even if he is behind on his child support he is still paying and he can not see the little girl.

My son has not seen his little girl in over 6 years. Can anyone please help us with some advice our how to get a pro bono attorney to help us.. any help would be appreciated..

Thank you,
TerrieS

The whole "the woman overpowered my son" story is a little hard to accept and makes me think he does not take responsibility for his own actions. That aside -

He needs legal representation. If he cannot afford legal counsel then he has to call your local Bar Association and ask for a referral to someone who offers services either at a reduced fee or no fee.

If it's been six years since he saw the child and he has been actively pursuing visitation for six years... something is being left out of the story.

There is nothing YOU can do here. You have no rights. Well, you could theoretically sue for grandparent visitation.

My opinion - and you will not like it - the best thing you can do for your son is stop thinking of him as a victim and stop enabling his lack of action.

I am being honest about the story how the child was conceived. But he was passed out on the floor he told me the story before anyone even knew she was pregnant. I told him he needs to report it because either way it is a rape.. he wouldn't do it.. it is a little embarrassing for a guy to do that. The mother I talked to her once and she admitted to what she did to my son on the phone. And yes he has been dodged every time he tried to get help. My son is not a criminal he is a good dad.. and it is not fair to him nor me to keep this little girl away from us.
And least all he does pay child support...
I did mention my son works 60 to 70 hours a week.. and he has a son he takes 100% care of. He has gone to the courts which is not in the same county as we live in numerous times with paper work given to him.. then they tell him he does not have the correct paper work.

If you guys want to believe me or not.. there is a child involved in this situation. And I am seeking help for my son.. if you choose not to help me.. because of the situation is a little shocking.. well I am sorry.. Does your smart comments hurt.. you.. so I guess asking for advice and help is too much..

I do not teach my son to be a victem... he did not bumm around all these years with no job and not pay child support... and I did not teach him to be the poor me type guy... He is just bull headed and thought he could handle it himself in the beginning.. shortly after this all came up he was already married with a baby... and obviously if he is a stand up dad who pays attention to his son.. who is only 7 years old.. and smartest little guy in his class.. who can add and subtracts in the thousands because he likes to thank he is just like his dad.. my son did not do such a bad job..
My son wants his daughter... and his rock head finally sees he needs help...
I do not like the way she got pregnant it shocks me.. but there where other people in that house that can verify what happened right down to the girls brother.

Terrie... I'm sorry if I sound harsh, but we hear stories similar to this almost daily and they are all hard to believe. It doesn't change the fact that its been 6 years because of him and no other reason. If he was serious about this he would have found a way to pay a lawyer. You said he had 20% custody... has he ever taken her to court to have that enforced? Family court will not turn him away because he doesn't have the right paperwork.

I suspect... and I'm sorry... that you do not have correct information from your son. We have heard them all and this one sounds like BS. Nothing against you... we understand that you are a third party in all of this.

For a solution: save some money. Cut back on whatever possible to save up and hire a lawyer. Chances of him getting 50% custody at this point very slim but he should at least get his legal visitation set up and have enforced what was already awarded to him.

Ya, I have heard bs stories too.. I am not stupid.. I had my son when I was 14 years old.. and yes I was raped... the man was over 21... I was legally pregnant at 13. I was to scared to even explain what happen to me.. so the only words that could come out of my mouth was "I don't know".. and it worked because I did not have to see the person ever again. I have worked hard all my life to raise my son decent.. "not trash".. I worked double shifts in restaurants and went to college at the same time just to get a little further a head in life. And there is no father in my sons life. Do you think he would want the same for his own child. My son is the most honest guy I know.. because I am honest.. He is rock head yes a pain in the butt at times yes.. but honest all the time. I never had to worry about that with my son.

When the girl he was dating came up pregnant and in the beginning he did not know who the father was he said he would be the baby's dad no matter what.. is my son a stand up guy.. yes he is.. Thank God the baby was his..

I wanted to help my son from the get go.. and he told me NO. It was very hard on me to have to respect his wishes.. but I had to because he needs to be a man..
They let him see her once.. and after that started making excuses why he couldn't.. that they where not going to be home that day.. It continued like that.. My son has gone to family court and asked for help.. they kept leaving out paper work that he needed... so he had to turn around come all the way back home. Now that I am helping him I emailed the family law division and asked for all the paper work I needed for my son to request 50% custody. A mother has no right to hold the father away from the child. It took us a few years to find her and we have just now found her in Sacramento.
I know what BS stories are.. and if it came from anyone else you.. I would probably think the same..
If she did not want my son to be apart of that baby's life she should have never told him about the baby... But she was obviously money hungry.

Right now is just a bad time because I was just laid off from work.. and finding a new one in the field I work in.. is a little hard right at the moment.

Nothing has changed the advice I gave - "He needs legal representation. If he cannot afford legal counsel then he has to call your local Bar Association and ask for a referral to someone who offers services either at a reduced fee or no fee."

And I'm sorry but I find it impossible to believe he was passed out on the floor but the mother of the child overpowered him and forced him to have sex with her, the details of which act he clearly recalls.

But - that's a side issue. He needs legal representation.

JudyKayTee,

Thanks for advice.. I did call the local state bar in my county and the county the case is in. They can not help me find a pro-bono attorney.

I have been doing a lot of research. Men do get raped and the reason why they do not report it is because they feel no one will believe them.

If you tell anyone no once it is considered rape. He told that girl 3x's NO.

And you and Stevetcg are well aware of the fact that most women like myself do not report rape.

He is not the only guy in the world who woke up with someone on top of him..

My son was in a relationship at the time. Shortly after this happened his girlfriend who became his wife was pregnant.. My son is a stand up guy.. and obviously he worked and did not live off me all these years and paid his child support... he is not that far behind on the support.

That girl raped my son
raped him of his daughter
raped him my grandson of his sister
raped her daughter of a excellent caring father
raped my son's income all these years.

so no matter how hard it is to believe the word NO Means NO.. If it was your daughter what would you do... would you like to be told it is hard to believe.

If he didn't report the rape, it has NO legal standing in his child support/child custody case.

Since it was not reported, as far as the OTHER issues go, it never happened, and is not a valid argument for anything.

He needs a good lawyer, and should call around to find out if any in your area will work on a sliding scale fee system.

If he does NOT get a good lawyer, well... then he's consenting to
Loss of his daughter
Losing your grandson of his sister
Losing the opportunity to be an excellent caring father to his daughter
Losing his income all these years for child support.

HE is responsible for getting visitation enforced.
HE is responsible for making sure to keep in contact with his daughter.
HE is responsible for STILL being an excellent, caring father, even if he does not live with the child
HE is responsible for paying child support, or for filing for an adjustment to it.

She's only gotten away with doing what she has because your son hasn't stood up and demanded differently in a court.

PS--it's going to be more expensive in the long run to NOT have a lawyer than it is to figure out how to get the money NOW to fix things.

JudyKayTee,

Thanks for advice.. I did call the local state bar in my county and the county the case is in. They can not help me find a pro-bono attorney.

I have been doing a lot of research. Men do get raped and the reason why they do not report it is because they feel no one will believe them.

If you tell anyone no once it is considered rape. He told that girl 3x's NO.

And you and Stevetcg are well aware of the fact that most women like myself do not report rape.

He is not the only guy in the world who woke up with someone on top of him..

My son was in a relationship at the time. Shortly after this happened his girlfriend who became his wife was pregnant.. My son is a stand up guy.. and obviously he worked and did not live off me all these years and paid his child support... he is not that far behind on the support.

That girl raped my son
raped him of his daughter
raped him my grandson of his sister
raped her daughter of a excellent caring father
raped my son's income all these years.

so no matter how hard it is to believe the word NO Means NO.. if it was your daughter what would you do... would you like to be told it is hard to believe.


You asked me a direct question or two so I'm going to answer a direct question or two -

I don't know what "most women like {yourself} do" when raped. I don't know that has to do with what your son did or didn't do (because it's water under the bridge) but for the record I WAS raped and I DID report it. I also wasn't intoxicated at the time which would have been your son's problem with the Police. I'm also a 5'4" woman and he was a 6'1" tall man.

I have no idea if he is or isn't the only man in the World who woke up with a woman on top of him and was forced to have intercourse. Either your son is a very small guy or this is a very big woman! Again, what does it matter?

The fact that "shortly thereafter" he got another woman pregnant but did marry her doesn't matter.

What I would or wouldn't like to be told doesn't matter, either - what does matter is what he does from now forward. When I ask for advice I take it and move in, whether I want to hear that specific advice or not.

What matters is why it's taken six years to get to this point and what he's going to do now.

And quite frankly with your attitude toward the mother I can see that there will be problems with visitation. That attitude will be apparent and I'm sure EVERYONE knows the story about the rape.

Not good for the child.

Synnen,

Thank you, I know the rape part does not stance anymore.. but it is how the little girl was conceived. We do not hold that against the child. My son just found her and he is doing every thing he can to enforce his 20% visitation until we are able to get him into court. We are awaiting the original court order for we can do that.
I also found a paralegal that would help us and get the fees waived from the courts.
I also, got a hold of her parents whom my son never talked to before nor have I. They had know idea what really happened, their daughter never told them anything.
They are LDS.. So are we... they do not even know they knew or family for years.. I still have not told her father that part.. but I will.. I know their son was at this party and I know he knows what happened and how he knew are family.. the girls mother was my nieces Sunday school teacher.
I know my son has been depressed for a very long time over this.. the only thing that kept him from killing himself was his son.. thank god..
I know my son is to blame for not pursuing as strong as I would and not letting me help him.. he is a rock head..
But again, I think you for the sound advice..

JudyKayTee,

I do not have that bad of an attitude.. my words did not come out well yesterday it was a long stressful few days for me. I do not know the mother. It is the child I care about. Yes, my son is part to blame for not pursuing as hard as he should have.. he only drove out to that county once a year.. If it was me I would be parked out side the girls house with a court order in hand from day one.

I am sorry you do know rape.. and yes you're a much braver women than I.. I could not report it when I was raped.. I was 13 and scared and before I knew it I was pregnant.. and all that I could muster out of my mouth is I do not know.. I regret that and yes I was lighter and shorter than you at the time.. and the man was a grown man.

I do have my son and I have done everything I could to be there for my son and show him a good example. When he got older I worked double shifts in restaurants and went to college at same time just for we can do a little better.

He is a good kid.. sure he did stupid things when he turned 18 but lots of kids do.

And know I would never tell that child what she is a product of.. I wouldn't even tell my son that..

I understand the rape is not the issue anymore thank you for pointing that out to me. What he does for now on is what matters you are correct there. I am sure that little girl has a open loving heart and will get to know her daddy.. I just pray it is in a nice way.. so far I have had no return calls. I am sorry if I got to emotional and I think you for your advice..

I will be blunt, if he has not seen his daughter for six years then he has not done what he should, what the family wants or when they are busy means nothing, he gets a court ordered visit, and shows up, if he can not get the chid, he documents it, and takes the girl back to court for contempt.

After being fined or even locked up for contempt normaly they will allow the visits.

But again that is what he did wrong for the last six years, now his mistake is not working a extra job or saving some money over six years to pay for an attorney.

As for the rape, sorry if I don't believe it but it has no bearing on he visits at all anyway..
a. passed out drunk can't even perform
b. he made the choice to be at that party and get that drunk
c. most likely a good story to tell mom or family but hard to take serously

And I guess did he even get a DNA test to prove he is the father to start with?

I am posting again because I learned something very new... The mother of my grandchild who has done everything in her power to keep my granddaughter away from her father.. who denied every visit he ever requested when he has the 20% visitation rights. Her excuses where doctor appoints or they where not going to be home that day and it continued for the first couple of years.. then she just ignored all calls from my son. Then she just disappeared and he finally found her.. at least we think we have.
It is called Parental child Abduction. This is a crime. My son only wants to see his daughter and she is still is denying him the access..

She is refusing to pick up the phone. Her parents refuse to tell us where she is at or her address and we think we found her address, if it is her address. The address is in a different county. Sure, my son was complacent and did not know this was even called abduction. I mean who would think that a custodial parent can be considered to kidnap a child from a non- custodial parent when they only have 20% visitation rights with no set days.

Today or tomorrow we will have the visitation orders in our hands and we will be filing a report... I think that will solve things..

When I talked to the mothers father I warned him we might have to show up with the police if she keeps denying my son visits. He said he wanted to stay out of it was between the parents.. How do you stay out of something when it is involving a parent not seeing his child in 6 years.

First, you know only what your son told you. I'm not saying he isn't being truthful, but you do not know the facts, only what you have been told.

Second, you never said if a paternity test was ordered and whether he came back as the bio father.

But the bottom line here is that, he has a court order for visitation. If he hasn't been to court asking for a contempt citation against here, he's not doing what he should be doing. Family Courts are often more lax as to to formalities. So I find it hard to believe that he would keep being refused because he didn't fill in the paperwork properly.

Finally, yes, if a parent takes the child and does not notify the other parent where they are when there is a visitation order in place, that is parental kidnapping. It might even be enough to get him primary custody.

ScottGem,

My son did have a paternity test he is the father. He has paid 6 years of child support with only being less than 1 year behind. He has never been in jail for being behind. He has some proof that has tried contacting her through out the years. He emailed her on her myspace account requesting to see his child. He still has that email. Plus the next witness is his x-wife who knows numerous times on how many times my son tried to get a hold of her for visits.
Then the fact she just up and disappeared about 3 or 4 years ago..
My son had no idea this is abduction. Him and his x-wife have never had this problem of visitations with their son. My son has never denied the mother or the other grandparents visitation and his son lives with him.
The mother of his child in the beginning let him see her once. She was 1 years old. Then after that every time he called she made excuses and eventually started ignoring the calls.
Every time I asked him he would say, She won't let me see her because of this reason or that reason.. and just to stay out of it. He was deeply hurt and that is unfortunately how he acts when he is hurt.
When I talked to the mother's father the other day he told me to stay out of it.. I told him he did not want to have the police go to her door and force visitation in that manner. It would be easier for the little girl if the family was cooperative. He said it had to be handled threw lawyers and my son has no money for a lawyer. He has his son living with him and pays child child support for his daughter and after his pay check well welfare recipients get better pay than my son does.
I called the mothers father again left a message asking for her address and they have never returned my call.. should I keep trying until someone answers?
Should I start calling other peoples who numbers I found on the internet. I even found a family website should I post there too asking to confirm her whereabouts?
Or should I just wait until we are able to talk to the police when the visitation order arrives?

I forgot to ask how do I get emergency custody for my son once this does start moving. I am worried her family will jump in and try to take the child.

Wow... what you are doing is borderline harrassment--and YOU might have the cops showing up if you don't back off.

Her father is right--it IS between the parents. YOU have no legal standing, unless you are suing for grandparents' rights.

YOU don't get emergency custody, your son does. HE needs to contact a lawyer. YOUR SON needs to contact the courts and let them know she's violated the visitation order.

While I realize you are trying to be helpful, HE needs to do all of this--NOT YOU. I doubt the courts would look that favorably on him getting custody of his child if your son's MOMMY had to do all the work for him. That just doesn't show ANY maturity!

I stand by my original answer: Your son NEEDS to afford a lawyer (perhaps THIS is where YOU can help?), because it will be a LOT more expensive in the long run if he doesn't get one.

I am helping my son because he did not know what to do... and just because I care enough to help him.. that does not make me bad. My son works full time and has his son full time he needs help. I am just seeking as much advice as I can for him.

He is not the only father in this situation... and he does have legal 20% visitation rights that have been denied. I am learning that my son is not the only one who had deal with the depression and frustrations of all this..

I have been reading websites saying contact neighbors, family friends of the parent who is with holding a child to try and locate the child. I did not know that was bad advice. That is why I am asking on here before I call any more people. And yes I called her parents.. and talked to them on the phone twice.

My son never called her parents only her with no avail and she disappeared. For 3 or 4 years. He has proof of trying to contact her in the pass and a witness.

I am trying to sale a motorcycle I for I can help him hire a attorney right now. I was laid off from work.. Thank god my husband still works.. but we lost more than 1/2 or income...

I am the grandmother of that child. My son does not deserve to have his little girl hidden away. I begged the other father to please help make this easy on the little girl. We do not want her traumatized by just showing up with the cops.

No parent should be denied the rights to have a child kept from him.. specially if they are good parents. I have seen my son be a really good dad to his son. He is even good to his son's mother side of the family. If she did not want my son to see the little girl then she should have never told him he had one..

The first visit with her and the last was "oh, here is what your paying for don't come back". That is not right.

This is for her own financial and gain. She is the only one who has hurt her daughter.

They are claiming my son never paid child support and has been incarcerated.

My son paid 6 years of child.. and has never been in jail. He is only under a year behind on paying her. She has been getting top dollar because California makes the paper work so frustrating and confusing I am now helping him with that paper work.

Now this is parental kidnapping the police department said it was. So if you can not let me know how to file a emergency custody order can someone else please help me.

Thank you

Was the child support FILED through the court system, and PAID through the courts?

If it's not, he never paid--or he'll have a tough time proving he did.

You want an emergency custody order for a child you don't even know where it is? GET A LAWYER!

I'm sorry... I know it's not that helpful, but your son NEEDS a lawyer for all of this, or he WILL lose in court.

I don't have children of my own, but other people that raise children are able to make phone calls to lawyer's offices while taking care of their children. It's called multi-tasking. He should get a phone book and start making calls before work in the morning and after work in the evening, to see if he can contact a lawyer's office that will work with him on payments for their service.

We are in California. The child support automatically is taken from his paycheck. Child Support in California is dealt with the Child Support Department which is a separate department from the Courts. Visitation is separate from the Child Support. Here in California even if a father does not pay child support he has the right to visitation.

Lucky my son is one that has paid his child support.

Thank you for your advice..

Basically your son has taken a lackadaisical attitude towards seeing his child. Emailing her on MySpace is not trying very hard. As soon as he got the court order for visitation, he should have agreed with the mother on a schedule. If she refused to set one, haul her back into court and have the court set something. If a schedule is set and she refuses to turn the child over when he shows up for his time, then haul her back into court for contempt.

I don't see any real effort on his part, I see a token effort probably to satisfy you.

You can and should help him, but not be making calls or harassing people. You did what you did here, find out the law and find out the processes he needs to go through, but HE has to go through them.

First off.. If you really need help filling out the paperwork there is always the Family Law Facilitators Office. There number is listed in the phone book and every court has some. They can help with which paperwork to file etc and then you pay the fees for starting the action. Another thing is he also should file for a reduction in child support. From the sounds of it he didn't have another child before he had this one. So the situation has changed. Another thing Im going to add is that you are sadly misinformed about him not having set days or anything. That is impossible. You keep quoting 20% custody and the only way to calculate that is by having set days of some sort. Sorry but that's the way it works. HE can do this without a lawyer but he really should have one. Also he can go through the child support agency and tell them he wants to make a reduction based upon changed circumstance and that part is free. So no matter how busy he is he needs to make the time to clear up this matter. The ball is in his court.

Calidadof3 my son has tried 6 times to get a reduction and could never figure out the paper work. He would drive all the way to the county where the case is at and they turned him away for having incorrect paper work. The county we lived in turned him away because the case is not here.

But I am going to take him down there and talk to the family law facilitators and make sure it is all done correctly.

He just broke his hand and needs surgery. Right now he is heavily sedated on drugs.. but I told him today or the next he has to tolerate going with me.

I am very upset with him for not letting me help him out with this. The paper work is very complicated. You being in CA you must know it is very difficult. Even the online calculator is hard.
I think he has been mostly overly frustrated and depressed and gave up way to easy..

I love my son very much but his defiance to come to me with help when he needs it really kills me.. specially when it has been this long.

We are still waiting on the visitation orders for I can actually see them. I talked to his ex-wife, the times where set verbally by parents which sounds about right when it was first open the mother just never allowed the visits.

I read, you are allowed visits but they say the courts let the parents decide to work out the schedule and if they can not decide then they need to use a court mediator. Which my son should have used. That is his fault he did not.

Thank you for the answer though I do appreciate it.. any help I get is good.. and I am very thankful.. I am taking what everyone says and I am learning from it. I am very new at this..

Calidadof3 my son has tried 6 times to get a reduction and could never figure out the paper work. He would drive all the way to the county where the case is at and they turned him away for having incorrect paper work. The county we lived in turned him away because the case is not here.

But I am going to take him down there and talk to the family law facilitators and make sure it is all done correctly.

He just broke his hand and needs surgery. Right now he is heavily sedated on drugs.. but I told him today or the next he has to tolerate going with me.

I am very upset with him for not letting me help him out with this. The paper work is very complicated. You being in CA you must know it is very difficult. Even the online calculator is hard.
I think he has been mostly overly frustrated and depressed and gave up way to easy..

I love my son very much but his defiance to come to me with help when he needs it really kills me.. specially when it has been this long.

We are still waiting on the visitation orders for I can actually see them. I talked to his ex-wife, the times where set verbally by parents which sounds about right when it was first open the mother just never allowed the visits.

I read, you are allowed visits but they say the courts let the parents decide to work out the schedule and if they can not decide then they need to use a court mediator. Which my son should have used. That is his fault he did not.

Thank you for the answer though I do appreciate it.. any help I get is good.. and I am very thankful.. I am taking what everyone says and I am learning from it. I am very new at this..

As far as the reduction goes all he has to do is make the call to the child support office. It was decided years ago that they MUST assist the NCP as well as the custodial parent. They may have a backlog in this economy but they should help and file the paperwork for you. Also they should have her current address if they are sending her checks. If you do it yourself then it will be up to you to find her and have her served. Mediation is mandatory in Calif if your going for a change in custody and that's through the courts. It's a one time shot. And that is the sole focus is visitation and not any other disputes. Its provided free by the state. That's only if you file for change in custody.
The family law facilitators office is limited on time but well worth the trip for making those types of changes.

We have managed to submit the paper work for the child support modification. We have also submitted in court visitation/custody papers asking for reasonable visitation. The meet/confer orders stated both parties had to work out the issues before court. My son and the mother met and she still is denying him visits. She threw out comments that she never wanted him to see the child from the beginning, She also told him three times to give up his parental rights and she would drop child support. My son told her No. She told him if he peruses this he will be paying a lot more. My son had a witness with him and she had a witness who recorded the whole conversation. She was very mean and she said she does not owe him anything. She is right she does not owe him anything but she does owe that child something. If she continues with this attitude.. what are our chances in court. For the visitation and 50/50 custody?
Doesn't it already look bad on her not to try to work out visits before the court hearing inst that proof enough that she has kept this child from him for over 6 years.

First, she has no control over what he will pay. This is up to the court and its based on income. So those threats are empty.

I think your chances are very good for visitation and pretty good for joint legal custody.

If she persists in her attitude she risks losing custody entirely and it may turn out that she is the one paying support and having visitation. Yes the courts will not look kindly on someone refusing the father access to the child without good reason.

ScottGem,

Thank you so much for giving me hope.. I have been seriously whacking my brains on trying to help my son. We are going to his daughter school today to push his non custodial rights for he can learn what he can regarding her. She is claiming she has serious illnesses it took him three times asking to find out what they where she is saying severe type one diabetes. When the child was a baby she kept saying she had severe allergies. The mother now claims she does not have allergies anymore.
I have found a couple things I have questions about.
1. I read under the educational rights and privacy act (FERPA) he can go to her school volunteer and eat lunch with the child is this true?
2. I found a blog that said as long as there's no court order, either parent of a child is free to be with that child whenever and wherever he or she wishes. Is this true?
Our court date is not until next month.

1. Can you show us where you read this. It doesn't quite sound right and I'd like to see what the rule actually says.

2. Its partially true. Its not that cut and dried. The problem is that once there is pending litigation you don't want to try an end run around the courts, they won't like it.

First off lets sort a few things out. What he is going through can and is parental alienation. That's a VERY serious thing. Another thing is that what he will be facing is mediation. And if she takes that attitude there then your son needs to plan for full custody on his part. As far as access to records so long as he has " legal " custody of the child then he has access to all the records for school and for doctors. So he should be speaking with them directly. When visiting a child at school he can do that but there needs to be a line drawn so it doesn't fall into the excess category. Doing so would ruin his case against the mother. Im not sure about what your stating in the blog you found and in the future if you come across information you want veryfied here you need to post a link to it. It sounds like what's being said is that without a court order they are equals.. and that is correct. I hope that answers some of your questions.

Also as a side note. If your in California you can if your close enough ask the courts to recommend this place for the both of them. Your son can request it and the courts will confirm they went.

KIDS' TURN www.kidsturn.org (http://www.kidsturn.org/pages/page.php?pageid=52)

See if its close enough to him.

Hi ScottGem,

This is the first link that I found regarding about the no court order and who has custody. I thought it was pretty simliar to our case.

This is the link from ask your lawyer. You can also Google Mom Scared Dad Might Take Child Q&A it will pop up.

Family Law - Mom Scared Dad Might Take Child Q&A Archive on Lawyers.com (http://www.lawyers.com/ask_a_lawyer/q_and_a_archive/show_question/index.php?QID=5851&specialty=0&keywords=&site=537)

The next link I can not find I was just reading blogs and articles about the non custodial rights to child education and it popped up.

We are not going to just drive up there and see her like that. My son does not want any negative confrontations at all. The mother says he has to wait until the court date. My son only wants what is best for his little girl and that is for her to know she has two loving parents not just one.

He is going to just check on her school records and find out who her teacher is and try to build a parent/teacher relationship with her teacher. I think that is would be good that way he will be prepared for if she is smart and bright like his son or if she has any learning disabilities he needs to be aware of to be prepared to work with his child on.

I hope the courts do not frown on that.

He is going to just check on her school records and find out who her teacher is and try to build a parent/teacher relationship with her teacher. I think that is would be good that way he will be prepared for if she is smart and bright like his son or if she has any learning disabilities he needs to be aware of to be prepared to work with his child on.

I hope the courts do not frown on that.


The Courts in NY would frown on this. I would suggest being very careful when making ANY inquiries of this type. I can see this type of behavior being classified by the other party as threatening - "what if he tries to kidnap my child? Why does he want this info?"

I don't think he has a right to develop a relationship with the child's teacher. I hope I'm wrong - for your sake.

Ok, While the answer was technically correct, it didn't go far enough. In fact if that answer had been posted on this site, it would have been objected to.

First, the question was asked from the custodial parent's view, not the NCP. We have actually had that question asked here several times. Yes its true that both parents have equal rights, but lacking a court order, the CP CAN refuse to hand over the child, forcing the NCP to go to court to enforce those rights.

Your son's case is somewhat different. He's been trying to get visitation, the mother hid the child from him and he's now going to court to enforce his rights.

Now that the case is in the courts he doesn't want to risk alienating the court by going behind their back. He should NOT take any action to try and see his daughter or insert himself into her life (see her teacher, go to the school, etc.) without the knowledge and permission of the court.

Califdadof3

I am in California. My son does not have any visitation/custody orders. He thought he did because of the visitation papers states 20%. No one told him he had to go seek visitation and custody. He assumed that she had the custodial and he had the visitation because of how the child support papers and he was paying child support.
He has tried to find her in the pass with no avail. The child support department has always refused to give him her address.

I still can not believe anyone one would do this to their child. My son has a son that lives with him most of the time and the mother and him never fought over visitation. They do not even fight over money they fixed it where neither of them pay child support because that would bring hardship on all of them. My grandson is ready for the gate program and just received the perfect attendance award and citizen of the month award.

We are hoping to show what a well rounded little guy my grandson is that he could prove what a good father he is. We are hoping that the family relationship with the mother would be in our favor in court.

My son is living with me but we have a 4 bedroom house and plenty of room for everyone even the other child. My son moved back home for he can get more education. I know it might not look good to the courts he lives with his parents but I am very worried that if we let this slip away again then she will disappear again.

The conversation he had with the mother the other night that she recorded. My son's friend heard her say that she never wanted him to have anything to do with the child from the beginning. Can he be used as a witness for that conversation?

My grandson wants to write a letter to the judge to tell him that he loves his big sister and would like her to be able to be apart of our lives.. are we allowed to give that letter to the judge?

I am planning to make a portfolio of categorize everything, for we will not walk in there empty handed.

Also, I attend to get affidavits from my mother over a call that was made to her from the mothers brother saying the child had server allergies and was sick all the time. The other day the mother said she did not have allergies anymore now she has sever type 1 diabetes.

I do not know what to believe but I found tons of information on diabetes. I am also searching for a class my son can take for if she does have that we can learn how to take care of her also to show the judge we are prepared for her illness. If she doesn't have it well she is going have to explain to the judge why she told us that.

Here is a really good question. I am a notary and I need to know am I allowed to notarize affidavits for this case. Example I got an affidavit from someone who witnesses or can say what type of parent he is. My son is not the one signing the document. Does that still constitute as personal gain? If you know that answer I would really appreciate the advice. We do not have much money to pay for tons of notary's.

I am also going to add notes regarding parental alienation because I can not explain what else it could be to cause someone to do this.

Please let me know if this is a good game plan with no attorney.

Now that I know to post what I find here I will do my best to do that for now on.

Thank you

ScottGem & JudykayTee,

I am sure glad you both mentioned that we will listen to you and stay far way until the court date.

I'm a little confused here. If he has court papers that say he has 20% visitation, then he already has a court order for visitation. So you should be asking the court to order the mother to setup AND adhere to a schedule. If you are looking for increased visitation, that's another thing.

As for your grandson's writing a letter to the judge, you should be asking the court to appoint a guardian ad litum to represent the child. The GAL will act in the child's interest and will forward any letters from the child to the court. The GAL can also request copies of any medical history. Your son should ask the court to appoint a GAL immediately. So the GAL can get this info in advance of your court date.

As to notarization, I'm surprised you ask. I believe a notary is not allowed to act in any situation where they have a personal interest. That would be unethical.

As to notarization, I'm surprised you ask. I beleive a notary is not allowed to act in any situation where they have a personal interest. That would be unethical.

Scott is absolutely correct here. A notary is not allowed to notarize paperwork if he/she has a personal interest in the matter. That is strictly prohibited.

Also, I would like to address the school situation. Neither you nor your son should show up at school, or talk to the teachers, unless either of you are on the school's paperwork. This could be viewed as stalking and could raise some eyebrows at the school as far as possible parental abduction is concerned.

This day in age the schools are very leery to let adults visit children in school unless they are on an approved list made by the legal custodial parent.

ScottGEm

The family clerk told me when I was in the office that the child support papers are not visitation papers they stated that it is what they use to calculate what the father needs to pay in child support. That is where my son was confused.

I have only used my notary for work. I have not personally used. I do know that I can not use for personal gain and the book clearly states is a graded shaded area and only in some circumstances but does not give any good examples. When I asked the secretary of states office they told me they could not tell me the answer and I needed to ask an attorney.

I have never heard of a GAL. I will call the courts and find out about that. My son, son has such a big open loving heart. He is already very excited that one day he will see his big sister. With my grandson having that personality this is how I know my son's daughter will adjust too. My grandson will help her a lot also just by being her brother.

J_9, I did get that about the school we are staying away from all that completely. I believe they did the meet/confer orders to contact each other upon arrival of paper work to try to work it out.

I have been looking into the kidsturn.org program calidadof3 suggested. It sounds like a great program and they go by your income.

I do appreciate all the advice all of you have given him. I was so confused when I first started trying learn what I was doing. You all have helped me very much even with the advice that at first I thought was not great.. but then realized it helped me focus in to what I really need to care about. It helped me learn so much. If I have more questions I will come back.. and when the court date is over I will let you all know how it turns out.

Thank you all
Your all in my prayers
Your all very good people helping people the way you do. :)

I am back to ask for more information. I really do appreciate you all giving me the help you have given me in the past.
We have a court date coming up next week for visitation and 50% custody. We are in Calif.

Here is the problem. My son met with the mother once about a month ago and she still denied him visitation. She tried to talk him into giving up his parental rights. He refused.

Last night she called asking him to give up his rights again and drop the whole case and she will pay him $10,000. My son told her NO. She then told my son that she moved out of state 12 days ago. Inside the court papers that was served to her are child abduction prevention orders. We have not had the court date yet. But is she suppose to move if we put in the court summons that she can not move and the abduction prevention?

How should we handle this? Do we call the police to report this. She did not give my son an address where she went to and I notice she changed her phone number. We have not tried to contact her because we do not want to mess up the court date. I know she has one relative in the state she claims she moved to and I looked up the address to where he works..
My son's number one concern is he does not want to hurt his duaghter. He just does not want to take her from her mom when he is a complete stranger to her.

Will the judge notice in court the things she is doing before the court date? We are planning to call the police and make a police report for her moving our of state. She has hidden this child for 7 years from my son.

Since the court date is next week, I would wait for the hearing. If she doesn't show up, then the court will swear out a warrant for her.

If she does show up, then you report the phone conversation to the judge. Did you know where she was living? Can you check to confirm she no longer lives there?

I have to tell you, however, if she is determined to keep your son's child from him, and she is willing to go underground to do so, there may be little that can be done to stop her.

If she doesn't show for the hearing, the judge should, as I said, swear out a warrant for her arrest for parental kidnapping. The problem here is that the police will probably not do much to serve that warrant. Your son may have to hire a PI to find her. If he can find her, he can get a copy of the warrant, go to the police where she is and have them serve it, place her into custody and have him take the child.

Scottgem has covered it all - I will add NY that your request that she be ordered to not leave the State has no effect unless/until the Judge orders that particular relief. So, no, asking that she not be allowed to leave is meaningless in this situation.

Many times in the Family court system in California there are standard restraining orders issued when there is a child custody case pending. It sounds like those orders may have been already issued. If she has crossed state boarders with the child then she would be guilty of a major offense at this point. First off you need to verify if she did in fact move. If she has moved then you need to move quickly. The old address should have a forward on it. If it does not then you could try mailing an overnight letter to that address and see what happens. If she has violated orders clearly then the FBI will get involved if she has crossed state lines. Your son needs to be strong and not be namby pamby about any of this. She should go to prison.

Califdadof3, I got a hold of the police department where she lives to do a welfare check. No one answered the door. She told my son she got a job in the state she moved at which does not surprise me because she works in the medical field and can get a job anywhere. She had two wonderful jobs here so I think that proves she moved because of the pending court date.

I got a hold of the police where I live.. and they said since it is not court order there is nothing they can do. They said to just wait till the court date. Are the sleeping on this instead of taking action?

My son told me she mentioned she did not go to orientation for the courts and if she is out of state and with the court hearing just being 5 business days away I doubt she will be fulfilling her obligation to the courts. When I called the court's it took them almost 2 weeks to get them to call me back for a date for the orientation.

Can this women really get away with what she has been getting away with?

Can the courts order her to move back to California if we can prove she moved just because the visitation/custody order being brought to court?

I have proof that she was planning to return back to work in April she has been out of work on maternity leave. She just had another baby as far as I can tell there is no baby daddy in the picture of that child either.

Please, if you can help with some suggestions.. on how to deal with our handle it.. the site you gave me for kids turn there is one in the County that she lived in before this latest move.

Well any advice real be very helpful right now..

Thank you,
Terr

Califdadof3, I got a hold of the police department where she lives to do a welfare check. No one answered the door. She told my son she got a job in the state she moved at which does not surprise me because she works in the medical field and can get a job anywhere. She had two wonderful jobs here so I think that proves she moved because of the pending court date.

I got a hold of the police where I live.. and they said since it is not court order there is nothing they can do. They said to just wait till the court date. Are the sleeping on this instead of taking action?

My son told me she mentioned she did not go to orientation for the courts and if she is out of state and with the court hearing just being 5 business days away I doubt she will be fulfilling her obligation to the courts. When I called the court's it took them almost 2 weeks to get them to call me back for a date for the orientation.

Can this women really get away with what she has been getting away with?

Can the courts order her to move back to California if we can prove she moved just because the visitation/custody order being brought to court?

I have proof that she was planning to return back to work in April she has been out of work on maternity leave. She just had another baby as far as I can tell there is no baby daddy in the picture of that child either.

Please, if you can help with some suggestions .. on how to deal with our handle it.. the site you gave me for kids turn there is one in the County that she lived in before this latest move.

Well any advice real be very helpful right now..

Thank you,
Terr

Otherwise - the Police are correct. This is not a Police matter. As I read it there is no Court Order telling her she can't move so she is/was free to go wherever she wants to go.

Whether there's a "baby daddy" in the picture is really more of an assessment of what you believe her character to be than anything else. It is not a legal issue. You continue to blame all of this on the mother - from her somehow forcing your son to have sex with her in the first place - without any blame on the part of your son.

This should have been in the hands of an Attorney a long time ago. I do realize that didn't happen and you can't change the past but I trust you, in person, are a lot less judgmental than your written word. It will not do you well to make comments about her when you are in Court.

It's going to come down to what you can prove, not what anyone believes or thinks. Again, with no Court Order she is pretty much a free agent. I don't think (if she has found gainful employment somewhere else) the Court will force her back.

The police normally do not get involved in domestic disputes except where required to uphold a court order. Since there is no court order issued, there is nothing the police can do right now. And with the court date so close I don't see anything to be gained by trying to find her and dragging her back now.

If the court papers served on her included warning about abduction (and I suspect they were warnings rather than orders), when she does not show for court and your son can prevent proof that she has moved without informing him of where, then he can ask that a warrant for parental kidnapping be issued. You then go to the FBI with this warrant.

Unless she went underground, they should have no problem finding her. If she is trying to get a job in her field, her license to work in the medical field will have to be shown, that and her SSN should make it easy for the FBI to locate her and she will be returned to the jurisdiction of the court. Very likely, the child will be placed with your son and he will have a good chance of getting custody and she will be restricted to supervised visits.

So go to the hearing with a positive attitude. She screwed up and your son should benefit from that screw up.

Again, with no Court Order she is pretty much a free agent. I don't think (if she has found gainful employment somewhere else) the Court will force her back.

Umm Judy:

Inside the court papers that was served to her are child abduction prevention orders.

Whether these child abduction prevention orders had the force of a court order or were simply a warning, I'm not sure. But I think its clear that the court, in establishing a hearing on this issue, was telling her not to leave the jurisdiction.

I strongly believe the court will issue a contempt warrant in this case. And that the FBI will view this as parental kidnapping. Assuming the OP is correct that she has moved out of the court's jurisdiction without permission or informing her son of where she is.

I hope you're right, Scott. I have no idea what a child abduction prevention order is or, in fact, if this relief was requested or granted.

In reading through it was my opinion that this was simply requested relief, not ordered relief. I see nothing indicating that the mother was ordered not to leave prior to the hearing. I see all sorts of relief requested all the time but that relief is either granted or denied at a hearing, not based on the request.

No problem correcting me if I am misreading something here.

Once litigation has started in a Custody hearing, the custodial parent is normally enjoined from leaving the jurisdiction. At least that's my understanding.

But even if it was only a request and not an order, what judge would not be upset at someone defying even his requests? Throw in the fact that she has hidden herself from the father and I don't believe the court will be favorably disposed to her.

I see your side of it, although I don't know which of us is legally correct. As I said, I see requests on a regular basis, requests which have no effect until an Order is issued.

I'll be curious to see how this plays out.

Whether insulting the Court (which this very well may be) harms the mother's case or not will be interesting.

I'll be curious about the outcome.

EDIT: I'm working - just asked an Attorney. He asked if the papers referred to where the "usual" Petition or an Order to Show Cause. An Order to Show Cause would have prevented the mother from moving; otherwise, depends on Court and State.

Wow, all the information you guys are giving is making me have some hope...

When I turned in these papers to the court house and they gave me a date for court.

I turned in:
Order to Show Cause (Child Custody/Visitation)
Application for order and supporting Declaration
Child Custody and visitation Application Attachment
Children's Holiday Schedule
Additional Provisions-Physical custody attachment
Joint Legal Custody Attachment
Request for Child Abduction Prevention Orders

I did complete the order to show cause.

No judge has looked at this our talked to us. The family court clerk only took these papers and stamped them and gave them a court date.

I do not think a judge will be happy with the choices she made. I have access to a account that she has on line and read about when she was going to be returning to work in April in this state and I have the print out of that. I have printed out where she stated her phone is disconnected just recently. Also, about her new job at a very good paying hospital here.. She was working for 2 different hospitals. Now 14 days ago she just up and moved.

I can not for the life of me see that benefiting her. I am hoping that will show proof that she has been hiding this child and running with her. I pray a judge stops her.

So far for court we have:
(Thanks to Calidadof3) we found a good counseling place that deals with parental alienation.

The mother told my son she is ill with severe type one diabetes if this is true or not we got information on that.

We have declarations from my grandsons mother (they are divorced) and grandparents saying they have never had issues over visitation with my son's son and what a great father he is.

We have documents how well my grandson does in school.

I am hoping this is going to wrap up the case to show that my son is a good dad and deserves to see his daughter.

I am scared that my son is not working and her moving will the courts order my son to pay the transportation to and from the visits?

The last thing my son wants to do is rip his daughter who vaguely knows him out of her mothers arms.. He just wants his little girl to know he is here and wants to be apart of her life.. and she has a family who loves her. If the courts do give him full custody he is ready to deal with that but he wants that to be the last option because he does not want to hurt his little girl.

Now I'm a little bit confused. You say you turned these documents into the court. But was the mother served with them? If she was, then its as I've said. However if she was not served with them, then she was unaware of the prevention and may not be enjoined from moving. However, she is still not allowed to keep her location from the father.

She was served the same day the papers where turned into court with the papers. I had to call the police to come out and make sure she was home by having them do a welfare check on the child. When she answered the door the police made her get served by me.

Wait a minute - you served her? The Police "made" her take service from you?

That would disqualify service in NY due to the family connection IF the mother complains. Did you also notarize the papers (which you were considering)?

Service is legal according to what's said here.

From Calif self help center.

Ref:
California Courts: Self-Help Center: Free and Low-Cost Legal Help: Get Ready for Court (http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/selfhelp/lowcost/getready.htm#serving)

Main page:

http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/selfhelp/lowcost/getready.htm

She was served the same day the papers where turned into court with the papers. I had to call the police to come out and make sure she was home by having them do a welfare check on the child. When she answered the door the police made her get served by me.

So what we are seeing here is the mother DID NOT move away as had been stated before ?

JudyKayTee,

No I did not Notarize the papers the Family Law place at the court house told me all I had to do was have people write up a declaration which is a court paper that does not need to be notarized.

I was told as long as I am not the petitioner or the respondent on the court case I can serve her I got that directly from one of DA's at the court house when I talked to her. She told me to make sure I served her right away before the mother takes off.

Califdadof3,

I served her on Dec. 7th. She called my son the other night and said she moved to Oregon 13 days ago refused to give him the address and phone number where she is at.

Did you get back the forms from the courts with a signature on it ? Im talking about form FL-341 (B) that would be the abduction form. If she has moved then that signed copy would be good enough to show to police and should get some actions started.

Ref:

http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/forms/fillable/fl341b.pdf

Califdadof3,

I served her on Dec. 7th. She called my son the other night and said she moved to Oregon 13 days ago refused to give him the address and phone number where she is at.

Which box was checked off on the paperwork as far as where not to move from without written permission ?

They never gave me a signed copy just a court date. I turned the paper work in with the all the other required forms. Should I be calling the courts asking why I did not get that?

Service is legal according to whats said here.

From Calif self help center.

Ref:
California Courts: Self-Help Center: Free and Low-Cost Legal Help: Get Ready for Court (http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/selfhelp/lowcost/getready.htm#serving)

Main page:

California Courts: Self-Help Center: Free and Low-Cost Legal Help: Get Ready for Court (http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/selfhelp/lowcost/getready.htm)


Should have checked the Law before I posted and I apologized - in NY this would be a set-up (Police do not get involved in service of process and it appears they were called in on a physical check which turned into a process service) and server was a relative. I wouldn't take the chance at having service set aside - but, again, I'm in NY.

Good catch, good info.

JudyKayTee,


I know the laws differ in each state.. but please relieze You have been giving me great advice and your also helping me to tone my prejudice in court. Which will defiantly help us. I know some of the advice you gave I did not want to hear it at first but I needed to hear it and that really helped me a lot. I did not know I could serve her until I talked to a DA on the phone and she told me to do it quickly.
I was sitting out her house for about 5 hours. I did go up and knock a couple times no one answered. It got dark I saw someone open the door and shut it.. it looked like a little girl. I went to the door again and knocked, no one answered. So I called the police and told them I was worried the little girl was there a lone. They came I told them what I was there to do and how she hidden the child. They made her stand there while I handed her the paper. I can not even explain the look on her face. Needless to say she was not happy..
I guess a lot of the police officers do no like women like her either.
The officer that came to our house yesterday came by today and gave my son a print out of the call. I mean wow, he made a special trip to make sure we had that document for court. That is way and beyond the call of duty for a officer in this city.

They never gave me a signed copy just a court date. I turned the paper work in with the all the other required forms. Should I be calling the courts asking why I did not get that?

You should have gotten a signed copy by now showing that the courts received it and it was entered. On that form it was on the lower RH side. Also it should be stamped by the court.

Calidadof3,

Here are the boxes I checked for Request for child abduction prevention.

Application for Order and supporting Declaration.

Question 1. asking your name.

Question 2 Do you think the other parent might take the children without your permission to:
I checked
a. another county in California.. Yes..
B another state... yes
c. another foreign country... yes

Then asks if parent is a citizen of the country I put NO
Asked to explain: I wrote how she has hidden the child for 6 years.

3. Why do you think the other parent might take the children without your permission?
Checked A.
Checked B.
Checked C I also checked other

D. Has a history
Checked not cooperating with me in parenting
Taking the children without my permission I explained how she avoided the visits in the beginning.

Question 5.
I checked Post a bond of $10,000.
Checked 6, do not move without my permission or court order

Checked 7. NO travel witout my permission or court order
This country the united states, California

Checked 8 notify other state of travel restrictions

Checked 9 turn in and do not apply for passports or other vital documents

Checked 10. Provide itinerary and other travel documents.
The children's, copies of round trip airline tickets
Addresses and telephone numbers where the children can be reached, an open airline ticket for me in case the children are not returned.

Checked 11 notify foreign embassey or Consulate of passpoert restrictions

Checked 12 foreing custody and visitation order

On the child custody and visitation application attachment (FL-311)

Question 5 I checked it
Travel with children She must have written permission from the other parent or a court order to take the children out of
Checked State
Checked the following counties sacramento, solano and san joaquin.

Checked 6. child abduction prevention

Califdadof3, JudykayTee and ScottGem,

I wanted to let you know about what happened in court yesterday. After over 2 hours of long mediation that my son set in with the mother. He came out and said he gets to see his daughter for right now every two weeks. One of the weekends of the month he has to drive to see her which is a twelve hour trip. The other weekend her mother has to drive here.
But then it states they can agree to meet half way. Everything is at the mothers choice.
It also, says for right now it is supervised with the mother. He does not get no a lone time right now until his duaghter gets to know him better. Which that part it fine, but it does not state how long that would take. We might have to go back to the courts to fight that one for he can have her more later on after she gets to know him better.
My fears are my son will be driving there every other weekend which costs more than 200 dollars to drive. Spending the weekend up there. Then turning around coming home. And when it is her turn to drive she might say, she wants to drive halfway. The next fear she can try to drag this out for years with my son.
I had a package put together with tons of proof that she lied about a lot of things the mediator said that would not fly in court and the judge would not even take that into consideration.
She did admit not answering the phone when he called in the beginning.
My son, being the great person he is.. he said, it is just as much fault for this as she is. In the beginning he was working 16 hour days 6 days a week and it was very hard to do anything about the situation when he was paying child support and taking care of his wife and son at the time on top of everything.
I am just worried the order is not very clear on a lot of things. About when they meet halfway. How long his visits can in that day or how long this is going to be before she can spend half her vacations from school with him.
She did hire an attorney to do her paper work and I assume the attorney told her she better agree to something. But it sure did make it hard on my son when he is not working and is going to school. The financial burden of the trip falls on me.. and I already have my own financial problems. I am very angry with my son for not considering the financial burden it puts on me. I know that trip costs 200+. He claims he will find a part time job.. but still jobs are not falling out of the sky right now.. I was laid off and I am having difficulty finding work.

Well there is what the judge ordered. I feel with out the orders being more detailed in defining how many times 1/2 ways are or how many long these visits with mother present are that it is going to again hurt my son in the long run.

The mediator said that the judge would not care about her moving when there was attached child abduction preventions in there.
I believe that mediator is not the judge.


Again, I like to thank you for all your great advice.. I guess I have to sit back and see how this plays out..

I am racing out the door so I skimmed through this - will be back later. It doesn't sound like a bad result, it really doesn't. It sounds like this might be step #1 in a resolution.

(Your son should be very grateful you're on his side and supporting him; not all parents do.)

Congratulations on getting something. The bad news is that your eithr using the wrong word or there is something really amiss. A mediator isn't suppose to say anything to you as far as what a court might say. A mediator is only suppose to help steer the conversation and stay focused on the child. If that person really is a mediator then they should be reported. They crossed the line. As far as time goes. If he does good for 6 months then he can request another modification. As far as meeting 1/2 way. That situation is before hand and not after. So it wouldn't work per your example. It has to be agreed upon and equal to both sides. Visitation times ? That should have been stated. That IS what the mediator is for. Also Im wondering how his current wife will feel about him spending so much time with the ex. It might have been better to get the supervision elsewhere. It can reduce conflict. And also keep "her" friends from disrupting the visits.

Thank You for letting us know what happened.

Ok, I agree with Judy that this is a first step. I also agree with the mediator that the judge is probably not going to be interested in the proof of lies and stuff. But I disagree that he would ignore the child abduction.

I also think your son is too nice and screwed himself to some extent. Mediation is designed to free up judges by getting the parties to agree without a trial or hearing. The mediators are not judges, but usually lawyers. They want to get the parties to agree rather than turning it over to a judge. So they may be biased towards getting an agreement.

I suspect the mother stood her ground and your son caved. You are probably right that the mother was advised that she would have to give some visitation, otherwise she would lose. So she probably agreed to the minimum her attorneys advised she could.

So currently they share in the costs since they have to alternate dropoffs. If she starts requiring meeting halfway on her turns but requiring he come all the way on his turns, then you go back to court with a log of this happening and a complaint that she is not adhering to the spirit of the agreement that they share the costs.

Was a GAL appointed for the child? The GAL can help determine when supervised visits are no longer required. I also think that the age of this child (she is more than 6) is such that she should not take too long to get used to your son.

Keep us posted! When is the first visit?

A GAL was not appointed. Right now my son wants to see how it goes.. He is to nice because he does not want conflict in any way. He was able to see his daughter right after court. He came home grabbed his son and left. The orders are that he was to meet her at her parents house. Her parents had to leave for they can visit a lone with no interruptions. On the 6th of next month he needs to go to Oregon where she is. Then 2 weeks later she is to come down here to Calif. And When they get here. My husband and I have to leave. My son is not married he is divorced but he does have a girlfriend.
I hope it is going to be as easy as my son says it will be. They also, put in there open access to phone calls and webcam, and my son needs to send her cards each week. That is not to bad. My son is very excited about seeing his little girl. But he is not allowed to be alone with her until the mother claims the duaghter is ready. (that part bothers me because that could be never) But I agree with you guys there should be a time limit there. It is a very expensive trip to take up there once a month.
The mediator got after my son for things like not going to her parents door in the beginning to pound it down demanding to see his daughter. At the time my son lived over 150 miles away and was working 16 hour days 6 days a week. Plus he had a wife and his son was a baby. It made it difficult for my son. But yes, he should have done that. But he would have gotten no where by doing so. The mother did not deny ignoring his phone calls in the beginning and she did not scold the mother. The way it sounded the mediator was more compassionate to the mother.
But she did take note of my grandson's achievements in school and she liked that because it does show what a good father my son is.
We did have strong evidence against her. She said her house foreclosed. I got a hold of a real estate agent she in return got a hold of a title company and they corresponded in emails. Saying there was not a default on the house. The real estate agent forwarded me that email.
Then she had lots of plans to do stuff here in Calif. I got that directly off her face book. She even put down she was returning to work in April from maternity leave at a job in Calif.
I thought threw all my investigating that it was very well put together to make her move proof enough that she moved to make it more difficult for my son to have access to his daughter.
But she did have paper work she was behind on her mortgage but she did not have a default letter. Then she also, had a letter saying she got a job offer in Oregon.
Their daughter does have type 1 diabetes.. and the mediator made comments that her husband had the same illness. I think that is how she won the mediator's compassion.
I prepared my son enough to know about how to answer questions about the illness and the mediator did take note that he recognize one eating habits for one person with diabetes does not mean it is going to work for the next person and some other important things like the classes he found to attend.
My son was to easy to agree to everything it scares me that there is no stipulations or dead lines noted in the order.
My son did the same thing with his x-wife. She took him to court for visitation because she wanted to be able to file for their son on taxes every other year. My son let her.. he did not want a dragged out issue because he thought that would only hurt his son. She does not put no financial obligation into him. My son never denied her visits so the visits was not the problem.
I am upset with my son because he is not thinking of his future only the present. I feel if he does not prepare for the what if's he is going to screw himself more.
The one time he can not afford or we can not afford to go to Oregon he could be held in contempt of court. And right now money is tight.

I will let you let you all know how it goes.. I know in about 6 months I will probably need some really good advice from you all.

Hi everyone, I am back again.
We traveled over 600 miles for the visit. My son was able to visit with his daughter. I did not get to see her just to respect the court order for they could have bonding time. He did bring his son. As the visit was ending. The mother told my son that their daughter only wants to see him twice a year. She also, mentioned if he wants to see her he needs drive up there because they will not be coming down here.
My son told her No, that is not acceptable. The court order states that alternating weekends one weekend my son drives up there and the for the following visit she drives down here.
She already made plans for the next visit weekend. She told my son she has a class. My son told her that was okay but she would have to come the following weekend.
She emailed him telling him that she will not be here until March 19 which is next month. She said it was to hard for her and the children to travel that far.
She already wants money from him outside the child support and there is a court date to get the child support modified. She at least gets to go to that court date. My son never was notified of any child support court dates only the final judgment. She said she is not going to let them modified the child support. I know that is ridiculous she can not speak for the judge.
While the visit this weekend. My grandson and granddaughter where playing a dare game. She dared him to lick a window and he did. Then he dared her to lick a wall she did. Then the story is I do not know what to believe. But my grandson dared her to kiss him and that is when my son and the mom walked back in the room and separated them to find out the truth. They never kissed.
My grandson has never showed any interest in girls that way. He is only 7 years old. She is 8 years old. But to an email to my son the mom twisted the story around saying words like forced and sexual assault and she is talking to her attorney for the daughter to never be with her brother.
What a sick perverted mine she has.
We are planning to file contempt papers in court the minute she does not come down here for this month.
Wow! This girl is something else.
She had her brother and his family there for part of the visit. Which she was not suppose to. Then she went out and bought a hamster for her daughter that day. My granddaughter mostly paid attention to the hamster than her dad and brother.
Do we file contempt the first time she does not bring the little girl to Calif. Or do we wait?

Do we file contempt the first time she does not bring the little girl to Calif. Or do we wait?

The first time! Your son tells the judge that he tried to be as accommodating as possible. That it seems clear the mother never intended to honor the mediated agreement. That her history of trying to hide his daughter from him shows that she will do anything to keep his daughter from him and to alienate his daughter from him. Request that the mother be ordered to either adhere to the agreement or turn over custody to him.

Next question is what about the sexual assault claims she is trying to push on my seven year old grandson? I know it sounds outrageous but she emailed my son stating she is going to talk to her attorney. She turned it all out of whack saying he tried to force her and he didn't.. they never even kissed.
I do not know where the dare game came up and him asking for a kiss has never happened before. He has never shown any signs of being interested in girls before. The only kisses he sees is little pecks.
Can she use that as an accuse not to bring my granddaughter to California for her visit?
My son says that was just innocent kid stuff and she is blowing it out of whack. Which I know she is. But will the courts recognize that too?

A 7 yr old is not capable of sexual assault. I doubt if any prosecutor would take that seriously. Even if he was caught touching her inappropriately (which, as I understand was not the case, it was just a kiss), I doubt if there would be criminal prosecution. So let her rant and rave. But do not bring it up the judge. If she does, then explain to the judge what happened.

Personally, I would be more likely to believe an 8 yr old girl dared her 7 yr old half brother to kiss her, than that a 7 yr old boy was trying to steal a kiss.

Hi, We just had or second visit to Oregon and once again it turned into a nightmare worse than last month. The mother took sneeked my camera and took the little girl to a different room undressed her and took a nude picture of her and called the police and said my son did it. The police showed up and took a report. My son had his son with him and the police did not arrest him. They said they where familiar with parental alienation. They let my son leave with his son. My son explained about the visit the month before when she tried to accuse my grandson of sexual assault. I believe they believed my son is innocent. But they said they can not decide the case needs to go in front of a DA up there. She is getting a restraining order for he can not see his daughter anymore. This whole thing is a nightmare. I am trying to file emergency custody papers against her today. I am still very worried how she can do this with out a thought of another human life.. the thought of her own daughters or another child or what it would do to destroy the life of another human being if she did get away with her sick game. She is surely not fit to have any child in her care if she can do something this sick..

ScottGem, califdadof3.

Hoping you guys can tell me what forms I need to file for emergency custody. If you see my last posting please reply as soon as possible. Thank you very much.

Hi, We just had or second visit to Oregon and once again it turned into a nightmare worse than last month. The mother took sneeked my camera and took the little girl to a different room undressed her and took a nude picture of her and called the police and said my son did it. The police showed up and took a report. My son had his son with him and the police did not arrest him. They said they where familiar with parental alienation. They let my son leave with his son. My son explained about the visit the month before when she tried to accuse my grandson of sexual assault. I believe they believed my son is innocent. But they said they can not decide the case needs to go in front of a DA up there. She is getting a restraining order for he can not see his daughter anymore. This whole thing is a nightmare. I am trying to file emergency custody papers against her today. I am still very worried how she can do this with out a thought of another human life.. the thought of her own daughters or another child or what it would do to destroy the life of another human being if she did get away with her sick game. She is surely not fit to have any child in her care if she can do something this sick..

First off you need a copy of the police report to start with. Filing for custody at this point isn't even an option until you know the whole situation. Its not what your son believes it is what the police and the follow up report is going to say is what your going to have to work with. Right now filing for emergency custody is a desperate act and could be seen as interference in an ongoing investigation. It may not be right but that is how it works. Once you can get a copy of the report and see what has been done or not done then that is the time to act. Its obvious that this isn't going to work out having visitation in the mothers home. It would be well worth it to use the resources of the courts and to go to a nuetral place. Once the dust has settled and if the report has a favorable outcome then is the time to make your move. Right now all you can do is wait and pray. Do you have any idea when you can get a copy of the police report?

The police said I had to talk to the officer on duty that night regarding the report. I called him two days ago and he has not returned my call as of yet.
He did tell my son the picture didn't look right and that he got three different stories. He let my son leave with his son. We are back home.