This could be long, so I apologize in advance.

I need to know what kinds of rights and other things I have to stand on. What kinds of costs am I looking at (ballpark figure) for the future? What things do I need to keep in mind now, and when pursuing things in the future? What other kinds of questions do I need to ask when I do get a chance to speak with a lawyer? What actions can I take now, if any? What are things I need to think about for the opposing side?

I have a daughter who will be 3 in February. Her bio father has not seen her in almost a year. From finding out I was pregnant, he wasn't there. He saw her a handful of times the first year and a half of her life. Then he moved to FL about a year ago. She has never really known him. You show her pictures of him and she tells you it's a boy. The only daddy she has ever known is my fiancé.

Her bio father has never called to even ask about her. He is not on the birth certificate. She has my last name. He does pay child support-but it doesn't pay for even 1/4 of her care. My fiancé has taken full responsibility for her in EVERY aspect-emotional, financial, you name it. She is his little girl. We are getting married in less than 2 years and he want to legally make her his, as do I. This is where all my questions come in.

I know the biggest reason the bio father is going to fight me is because of his mom. As far as I know, neither one of them has the money to fight with in court. She is the one behind him telling him don't do this, don't do that. The last thing I want to do is go to court. He (bio father) now has another child with someone else in another state. This all started in IL, he moved to FL, my fiancé and I moved to MO, and bio father's mom still resides in IL. I also recently learned that she is *thinking* of pursuing grandparent laws. What all does this mean? What kinds of grandparent laws does she have? (she being in IL, us being in MO)

We (fiance and I) want to change daughter's last name to fiancés (mine will change when we marry). We want him to legally adopt her and get bio father and family out of the picture-they are no good for daughter.

I hope that was all as clear as mud ;) Please help me to gain some insight to my questions. Feel free to ask anything that you need more info on. I do plan to consult a lawyer eventually (sooner than later hopefully) but fiancé and I are both full time students and work so we don't have a lot of extra time on our hands.

I would move getting a lawyer up on your priority list. Adoptions are complicated to begin with. Since you're confident that bio father will contest it, it will just be that much more complicated. Doesn't really matter much what the grandmother wants. The only way she could ever possibly get any sort of guardianship or custody of your daughter would be if she went through court and had your daughter taken away from you. She would have to prove you unfit and the court would have to believe that it was in your daughter's best interest to be with the grandmother instead of you or her bio dad. Since you've given us no indication what so ever that that would be the case, I wouldn't even stress over it. Let her think about going after whatever she wants. It's your child, not hers. She can't fight for custody the same way her bio father potentially could.

First, you CANNOT avoid court here. Adoption is a legal process. Is the child support court ordered? When was the last time the grandmother saw your daughter?

I agree with justcurious. Start shopping around for an attorney now. Once you pick an attorney they can advise you of your rights and the adoption process.

You WILL need to get the bio father to relinquish his rights to clear the way for the adoption. If you explain that will end his child support, he may agree.

As for grandma, if there was no court action in IL, then she would probably have to file in MO.

Ok, Missouri, from my last check, they will require you to be married for him to adopt, and normally will have to be married about 6 months to file, and I believe a year for it to be final.

You will have to have lived in MO for over 6 months with the child to file in family court there.

Is there a child custody agreement in place ?

Is there child support order in place?

If there is no child support order then bio father is not behind in any payments.

Grandparents rights are the right of the grandparent to see and visit the child. ( visitation rights) they can get the rights and then fight the adoption unless those rights are still allowed.

If the father merely shows up and protests ( fights) the adoption, normally it is not going to happen.
You are going to have to serve him papers for him to sign over his rights, Very seldom will the court allow the adoption if the bio father is not in agreement.

Okay I agree with the others that you need to find yourself an attorney because you have to have one for an adoption period. You will have to go to court period... that's just how it works you are dealing with legal matters, legal matters are handled in court. The first mistake was not putting the bio father on the birth certificate because now relationship has to be established before an adoption can take place as well as all the other hoops to jump through. Why didn't you go to court for an order for support? He dosen't owe you anything unless you have an order signed by a judge.

First, you CANNOT avoid court here. Adoption is a legal process. Is the child support court ordered? When was the last time the grandmother saw your daughter?

Child Support has been ordered and has been in effect since Feb 6, 2008 (just shy a couple weeks of my daughter's first birthday). Grandmother last saw the child on July 30, 2009 for a very brief and uncomfortable time. It was an unannounced visit while we (fiance, daughter and myself) were visiting friends of mine that don't live far from the grandmother. She saw we were there and just invited herself over.

Is there a child custody agreement in place ? Not that I am aware of. There has never been any court proceedings between us. Nothing has ever been set about the bio father seeing the child X amount of days or he has her every other weekend or what have you. There is no visitation agreement set up.

Is there child support order in place? Yes. Established on Feb 6, 2008. I get $26/week

The first mistake was not putting the bio father on the birth certificate because now relationship has to be established before an adoption can take place as well as all the other hoops to jump through. Why didn't you go to court for an order for support? He dosen't owe you anything unless you have an order signed by a judge.

Why was my first mistake NOT putting him on the birth certificate? I did fail to clarify that he demanded a paternity test, which took the state 11 months to get to. He HAS been established as the biological father of my daughter-through DNA testing. I refused to put him on the birth certificate and I also refused to give her his last name. I didn't have to go to court for a court order of anything. Everything was done through the state at their own pace. After paternity was established, he had no choice but to begin paying me child support. The only thing he does is pay me child support, that is if he keeps his job.

When I stated that I wanted to avoid court, I meant in all aspects OTHER than the adoption process. I know court is inevitable with adoption proceedings, it's a legal matter. What kinds of costs am I looking at as far as the adoption? Fiancé and I are 2 full time students with lots of student loans so I'd like to know how deep we will be getting in.

This could be long, so I apologize in advance.

I need to know what kinds of rights and other things I have to stand on. What kinds of costs am I looking at (ballpark figure) for the future? What things do I need to keep in mind now, and when pursuing things in the future? What other kinds of questions do I need to ask when I do get a chance to speak with a lawyer? What actions can I take now, if any? What are things I need to think about for the opposing side?

I have a daughter who will be 3 in February. Her bio father has not seen her in almost a year. From finding out I was pregnant, he wasn't there. He saw her a handful of times the first year and a half of her life. Then he moved to FL about a year ago. She has never really known him. You show her pictures of him and she tells you it's a boy. The only daddy she has ever known is my fiance.

Her bio father has never called to even ask about her. He is not on the birth certificate. She has my last name. He does pay child support-but it doesn't pay for even 1/4 of her care. My fiance has taken full responsibility for her in EVERY aspect-emotional, financial, you name it. She is his little girl. We are getting married in less than 2 years and he want to legally make her his, as do I. This is where all my questions come in.

I know the biggest reason the bio father is going to fight me is b/c of his mom. As far as I know, neither one of them has the money to fight with in court. She is the one behind him telling him don't do this, don't do that. The last thing I want to do is go to court. He (bio father) now has another child with someone else in another state. This all started in IL, he moved to FL, my fiance and I moved to MO, and bio father's mom still resides in IL. I also recently learned that she is *thinking* of pursuing grandparent laws. What all does this mean? What kinds of grandparent laws does she have? (she being in IL, us being in MO)

We (fiance and I) want to change daughter's last name to fiances (mine will change when we marry). We want him to legally adopt her and get bio father and family out of the picture-they are no good for daughter.

I hope that was all as clear as mud ;) Please help me to gain some insight to my questions. Feel free to ask anything that you need more info on. I do plan to consult a lawyer eventually (sooner than later hopefully) but fiance and I are both full time students and work so we don't have a lot of extra time on our hands.

I suggest getting an attorney. ASAP. If the bio father has not established paternity , then that would be the only way he would have any rights to fight you. If he decides to establish paternity , then he could fight you not meaning he would win.Since he is not on birth certificate , he would have to file a petition to legitimate the child in the county you reside.I am going through a custody issue myself and have really been amazed at al the legal steps in regards to children. Be aware there are a lot of "Father's Advocate Services out there that offer low or no cost counsel.Do not take this situation for granted and get the legal help now.

I suggest getting an attorney. ASAP. If the bio father has not established paternity , then that would be the only way he would have any rights to fight you. If he decides to establish paternity , then he could fight you not meaning he would win.Since he is not on birth certificate , he would have to file a petition to legitimate the child in the county you reside.I am going through a custody issue myself and have really been amazed at al the legal steps in regards to children. Be aware there are alot of "Father's Advocate Services out there that offer low or no cost counsel.Do not take this situation for granted and get the legal help now.

We have established paternity-I refuse to put him on the birth certificate and refuse to give her his last name. Thanks for the info on the advocate groups-I didn't even think about that. Now it's just convincing my fiancé to seek legal advice now rather than later.

Child Support has been ordered and has been in effect since Feb 6, 2008

Child support is ordered by a court!


I did fail to clarify that he demanded a paternity test, which took the state 11 months to get to. He HAS been established as the biological father of my daughter-through DNA testing.

Paternity testing is ordered by a court!

You may have never been to a hearing, but someone has! And if the paternity test came back positive, then he is the LEGAL father (which is why support was ordered), not just the bio father.

As such he has the RIGHT to be on the birth certificate. I don't know who you refused to about putting his name on, but if a court orders it, it will be done whether you like it or not.

You can shop around for an attorney, costs range depending on area and other factors. You can get an idea of what it will cost and start saving.

P.S. Please use quoting correctly. Quoted passages need to be between quote tags.

If the court already did all that I would bet that the judge also added him to the birth certificate you can't refuse it once a judge orders it. You will have to get a lawyer and they set their own rates so start shopping around now so you will know how long it will take you to save up the money.

Sorry. I'm new. I don't have the time to figure out all the quoting. My apologies.

There was no judge that ordered he be put on the birth certificate. He is not on the birth certificate. I refused at birth to name him as the father on the birth certificate. No one ever ordered to alter the birth certificate and add his name. And before you tell me to check and see if they have-nope. I just got copies of her birth certificate last month and it is still only my name. The only way he can get his name on there is if he takes it to court-that I know.

Just be aware that if he goes to court, its likely a judge WILL order the birth certificate changed.

Out of curiosity---why are you cheating your child out of knowing her biological history? Why is it so hard to make sure she knows her biological ancestry?

You are not punishing ANYONE but your child by not having her biological father on her original birth certificate.

I also truly hope that you intend to be honest with her about her background. Children that find out even at 5 or 6 that they are adopted (even a stepparent adoption) have more issues with trust and honesty than adopted children who know from the get-go that they are adopted. Essentially--if you LIE to her about who her biological father is, regardless how well the father who is raising her does, she will see that lying is okay, and she'll have problems trusting you about ANY other important part of her life.

I suggest getting an attorney. ASAP. If the bio father has not established paternity , then that would be the only way he would have any rights to fight you. If he decides to establish paternity , then he could fight you not meaning he would win.Since he is not on birth certificate , he would have to file a petition to legitimate the child in the county you reside.I am going through a custody issue myself and have really been amazed at al the legal steps in regards to children. Be aware there are alot of "Father's Advocate Services out there that offer low or no cost counsel.Do not take this situation for granted and get the legal help now.


Did you read that paternity HAS been established by DNA and child support HAS been ordered?

I don't know what "do not take this situation for granted" means under these circumstances. It would appear this matter HAS been in Court already.

Out of curiosity---why are you cheating your child out of knowing her biological history? Why is it so hard to make sure she knows her biological ancestry?

You are not punishing ANYONE but your child by not having her biological father on her original birth certificate.

I also truly hope that you intend to be honest with her about her background. Children that find out even at 5 or 6 that they are adopted (even a stepparent adoption) have more issues with trust and honesty than adopted children who know from the get-go that they are adopted. Essentially--if you LIE to her about who her biological father is, regardless how well the father who is raising her does, she will see that lying is okay, and she'll have problems trusting you about ANY other important part of her life.

I am not cheating her out of anything. She will ALWAYS know the truth, in an age appropriate manner. She WILL know her biological ancestry, again in an age appropriate manner. The birth certificate is a piece of paper, yes a legal paper, but still a paper nonetheless.

I chose not to put his name on there after the things he said and did during my pregnancy. He did not deserve it and since he wanted a paternity test I could not put him on any legal document naming him as the father. After establishing paternity, it was never put on the birth certificate. He only calls or texts me whining and b*tching telling me what I will and will not do-once ever 4-6 months or so. It took him 2 weeks to come see her after she was first born. Then over the next 18 months of her life, he only saw her about a dozen times. She doesn't know who he is and that has been his OWN CHOICE! He is the one that didn't see her, after my repeated tries. I called him ALL THE TIME to see her and spend time with her-his most common response? I can't, I've got other things I have to do.

If he was a much more willing father, we wouldn't be in this situation. He was never active in her life and never even tried to work with me. He just wants everything handed to him and I won't do it. He lives 1,500 miles away from me with his girlfriend and their new baby. His hands are full. Daughter has not seen him since Christmas 2008 and I have not heard from him since July. He has never once called and asked how she was doing-never. Only calls to throw a fit at me because I won't change her last name. That's all I ever hear from him about.

So, now you tell me, am I really cheating her? Is this really someone that should be influencing a little girl? She will know about him and I will allow her to make her own decisions about him. If she choses to seek him out later in life, that's her choice, not one I am making for her. I will also not deny her having a little brother. She will know about her biological side of things. My fiancé has his Bacelor's in Psychology and is currently working on his Masters-we both are fully aware of the psychological aspect of things in this situation. We have discussed them in depth many times. We will always answer any question she ever has, without bias.

Here's my problem - do you think you can discuss her biological father with your child without allowing your bitterness to influence your tone and words?

Was the father a problem when you were having sex with him or did that come later, after you found out you were pregnant?

Here's my problem - do you think you can discuss her biological father with your child without allowing your bitterness to influence your tone and words?

Was the father a problem when you were having sex with him or did that come later, after you found out you were pregnant?

Yes, I can and will discuss her biological father without the problems I have with him, my bitterness, my aggravation, etc coming out. I can, I have before, and I will. I will always allow her to make her own decisions about him-without MY personal feelings being forced onto her.

The problems came later-after finding out about the pregnancy.

I just have to ask, if you will always allow her to make her own decisions, then what happens if this adoption does go through, but later she decides she wants to have a relationship with her bio dad and he's willing to see her?

The problem still remains the same. You are jumping the gun. You first have to be married before even filling for adoption, you also are required to have an attorney so go out and find one. He/she will tell you all of your local laws and your best route at having a successful adoption.

i just have to ask, if you will always allow her to make her own decisions, then what happens if this adoption does go through, but later she decides she wants to have a relationship with her bio dad and he's willing to see her?

Then that will be her decision. I will give her all the information about everything surrounding her-the pregnancy, her birth, the adoption (if it goes through, of course), her early years, her biological family, etc. Anything and everything she wants to know. If she asks my opinions then she will get them, if she doesn't ask then she won't get them. I can only hope that she will take the information I have given her and make a well educated decision. If she chooses to seek him out, I hope he has either changed by then or that she sees him for who he really is.

And to stinawords (since I do not know how to quote correctly) I do not feel I am jumping the gun. I am trying to go into all of this PREPARED. I KNOW I need to seek out the advice and consult of an attorney/lawyer but like I have stated I am a very busy full time parent, college student and employee. That is why I came here asking for a little info. I have a few minutes here and there throughout the day, but it is very difficult for me to find time for appointments. I am not trying to do anything as far as the adoption any time soon, I know we need to be married for that to happen. I am not contesting that. I am merely trying to gather information to get things together and lined up for myself and family.

I plan on making an appointment with a lawyer, but I won't have any open time until mid to late December. Until then, I will continue to try to gather information on my own.

As long as you realize you're going to need a lawyer and this isn't a simple speedy process, I think that's fine if you wait another month or so to see one.

It sounds like you're prepared for if your daughter wants anything to do with her bio dad. Is your fiancé? If the adoption goes through, but she still wants to have a father daughter relationship with her bio dad in a few years, will he be OK with that too?

as long as you realize you're going to need a lawyer and this isn't a simple speedy process, i think that's fine if you wait another month or so to see one.

it sounds like you're prepared for if your daughter wants anything to do with her bio dad. is your fiance? if the adoption goes through, but she still wants to have a father daughter relationship with her bio dad in a few years, will he be ok with that too?

I don't know that I'm fully prepared for the day if/when she wants to know her bio dad, but I've still got some time. I put myself in her shoes and that's how I think about everything. If I were her, what would I want to know/do? That's how I have gone about thinking through things.

My fiancé on the other hand, I don't know how OK he will be with things. I really can't answer for him, but I think he wouldn't like it and he will probably have a different approach than I on things. I think as we grow as a couple, and as a family, we will all grow and develop and learn as we go. He is going into the field of counseling psychology so I think with more experience in his field he will grow and understand this situation more and more and be OK with her wanting to see/have a relationship with her bio dad. He probably won't like it, but he will be OK with it.

None of us are really prepared for anything, but we sure are trying hard and I know with time and growth we will know how to get through things.

Uh, doesn't that seem like something you should be discussing with him now? Before you even attempt an adoption. I'm getting the impression you haven't.

Agree with "Justcurious" - you are this far into the process and don't know his true feelings?

I see a problem here -

uh, doesn't that seem like something you should be discussing with him now? before you even attempt an adoption. i'm getting the impression you haven't.

It's not that we haven't discussed things-we most certainly have. I just am not sure on how he will handle things in the future-if daughter wants to pursue her biological father. No one can judge how someone will handle something that far into the future.

I do know where he stands and his feelings on the subject NOW. He is NOT crazy about her seeking out her biological family, but remember she is still a tot right now. I was simply saying that as she gets older and we grow together as a family and as she begins asking questions and understanding the situation, I don't know exactly how he will respond to her wanting to know her biological family.

But if you're discussing this with him, you should have some idea. And I'm getting the impression that you don't. This is something you two need to be in agreement over. It's not something as simple as what to have for dinner or if she should be allowed one scoop or two scoops of ice cream for dessert. This is something that if both of you do not handle right could really screw up her relationships with all three of you. It's really not a, "let's wait and see what happens" situation. This is a "we'd better have a plan for everything" situation. So you need to remember that kids grow fast. She may be a tot now but she could start asking questions before you know it.

but if you're discussing this with him, you should have some idea. and i'm getting the impression that you don't. this is something you two need to be in agreement over. it's not something as simple as what to have for dinner or if she should be allowed one scoop or two scoops of ice cream for dessert. this is something that if both of you do not handle right could really screw up her relationships with all three of you. it's really not a, "let's wait and see what happens" situation. this is a "we'd better have a plan for everything" situation. so you need to remember that kids grow fast. she may be a tot now but she could start asking questions before you know it.

I should have some idea? I do
Are we in agreement? Yes
I never said that this was a simple situation, I know this is something very complex and that's why I asked questions here. We both know this is a touchy subject and situation and we are as prepared as we can be at this point. I came here looking for some help to point me in the right direction for the time being knowing my best source for answers is an attorney. Right now, with some aspects of this current situation, all we can do is wait and see and talk to an attorney.

Almost all adopted children seem to have a need to find "who they really are" or claim they are missing a part of their life sometime as a teen.

Others feel they have some right to know.

So expect her to want to search and find him, that is something that I would say is nearly sure to happen

I will address a very very serious mistake you are making, from day one, she should know that this other man is not her bio dad, you can even make him more special, by letting her know he did not have to choose her but he choose to be with you and her as a choice. This starts as early as 2 years old. If done properly the hatred of you hiding something or some family member already saying something does not happen. If you wait for that "right" time, it will never come till it is far to late

Next at least in GA, as long as he is paying child support that is considered contact even if he never actually looks at her in person. Also in GA, you can not take away a fathers fight because he does not pay child support or because he does not visit.

So the only way the bio father is gong to loose his rights and allow any adoption is if the bio father signs those rights away. And he may since he gets to stop paying child support

Also at leats in GA, he can at anytime since he has been proven the father, file in court for visits and it would be awarded, it may be supervised or the child required to have counseling first. So this is something that could always happen at this point

I will address a very very serious mistake you are making, from day one, she should know that this other man is not her bio dad, you can even make him more special, by letting her know he did not have to choose her but he choose to be with you and her as a choice. This starts as early as 2 years old. If done properly the hatred of you hiding something or some family member already saying something does not happen. If you wait for that "right" time, it will never come till it is far to late

I never said that this was something we were trying to hide from her-even at this age. All she knows is that my fiancé is Daddy, and he always has been to her. It is difficult for a 2 or 3 year old to grasp the concept of Daddy vs. Biological Father. I will not ever hide this from her and when she is old enough to begin understanding the situation, I will not hesitate to tell her and explain to her. Right now, even at almost 3 years old, she doesn't get it. I don't know many kids her age that would. Her biggest worry at this age is what fun things do mommy and daddy have planned and am I going to get any candy after dinner.


Next at least in GA, as long as he is paying child support that is considered contact even if he never actually looks at her in person. Also in GA, you can not take away a fathers fight because he does not pay child support or because he does not visit.

So the only way the bio father is gong to loose his rights and allow any adoption is if the bio father signs those rights away. And he may since he gets to stop paying child support

Also at leats in GA, he can at anytime since he has been proven the father, file in court for visits and it would be awarded, it may be supervised or the child required to have counseling first. So this is something that could always happen at this point

I know IL laws, but since we're living in MO now, I am not in the loop with how everything works here. I assume it would be the same as you are saying. This is something I have kept in mind and again something I need to take to an attorney. We are hoping that the incentive of him not having to pay for 2 children and only one instead that he will sign away. He does also know that all he has to do is take this to court and file for visitation rights, but he hasn't. All he cares about is he gets what he wants and all that is is for him to have his name on her birth certificate, for her to have his last name and for me to be unhappy and "not get what I want". That's all he wants and cares about. And you may ask how do I know this? He told me, that's how I know.

That may be all he want's and saddly it might be what he gets. For the simple fact that he is her legal father and has to pay support. For your sake I hope he is willing to sign away his rights to allow the adoption because if he can prove that he does pay even if he dosen't want to visit then I don't know of a judge that would terminate his rights with out him wanting it. So, even if the adoption never goes through your child will know who was there taking care of her through everything she goes through and who shares in her joys as well. Just out of curiosity you keep saying at an age that she will understand... at what age do you think that will be? I have a daughter in kindergarten she's six and just from being around all the different kids that come from all kinds of different families (a lot of them with step-parents) she asked who her step mom was I smiled and told her I'm the only mom she has and I hope that is enough for her because her parents are married. Saddly that is the minority of the cases anymore. So you see, sooner than you will expect, she will be able to start to understand and if you are so open to the idea like you say you are you will tell her sooner rather than latter because if you continue the "daddy" thing after she starts school you will have to lie to her when she asks the same question my daughter did.

That may be all he want's and saddly it might be what he gets. For the simple fact that he is her legal father and has to pay support. For your sake I hope he is willing to sign away his rights to allow the adoption because if he can prove that he does pay even if he dosen't want to visit then I don't know of a judge that would terminate his rights with out him wanting it. So, even if the adoption never goes through your child will know who was there taking care of her through everything she goes through and who shares in her joys as well. Just out of curiosity you keep saying at an age that she will understand... at what age do you think that will be? I have a daughter in kindergarden she's six and just from being around all the different kids that come from all kinds of different families (a lot of them with step-parents) she asked who her step mom was I smiled and told her I'm the only mom she has and I hope that is enough for her because her parents are married. Saddly that is the minority of the cases anymore. So you see, sooner than you will expect, she will be able to start to understand and if you are so open to the idea like you say you are you will tell her sooner rather than latter because if you continue the "daddy" thing after she starts school you will have to lie to her when she asks the same question my daughter did.

When I say at an age she will understand, it all depends on her. When she comes to me with that first initial question (of ANYTHING relating to the situation) that's when I know she is old enough to begin understanding. I don't know when she will be ready or old enough to start understanding, that is all up to her. I imagine she will be able to start understanding around the age of 4 or so. I imagine it will be something like what your daughter asked you. It will always be told to her in an age appropriate manner. If she is 6 then she will get a 6 year old version. When she's 15 she'll get a 15 year old version. There are just some things you don't tell a 6 year old that you can tell a 15 year old. When I feel she is old and mature enough, she will get everything I have saved up in the closet that pertains to her biological father (pictures, some notes, documents, etc) and those things will be hers to do with what she pleases.

I know that hiding things, regardless how small or minute I think they may be, would be absolutely the wrong thing to do and would backfire in every way. She will always know the truth, I will never hide anything from her.