Hi guys! I have made some research on the forum, found lots of relevant information and I think it's time for me to try to reach the core of the members' thoughts about it. :D

Ok, pornography: is it a nearly harmless entertainment because we are mature enough to decide whether to have access to it?

I know most people, especially parents towards their teens, children, see porn a real danger, a taboo if I may say so.

I found that porn relieves sexual tension and stress, and it is used as a way to stay virgin for as long as possible.

Some of the arguments I found were:
Porn is easy to get addicted to
This in turn leads to broken relationships;
Interference with work & productivity
Compulsive sexual behaviour which can lead to illness & contradicted diseases
Depression/Suicidal thoughts and behaviours
Shame and self-hatred
Guilt and loss
Legal and financial troubles

I'm inviting everyone to comment, discuss on the theme! I hope all will turn out smoothly :)

Have a great day everyone!

PS: If you just joined the discussion, try reading the previous posts before stating something. It really gets annoying if we turn in circles forever.

Ok, pornography: is it a nearly harmless entertainment because we are mature enough to decide whether to have access to it?Hello Unk:

There is no "we".

To MOST of us, porn is harmless entertainment. To SOME, it's a hazard to be avoided. MOST of us drink responsibly too, but there's a few who don't/can't. Same thing with driving - some abuse it - most of us don't.

So, it's not much to do about the substances we smoke, or drink, or what we read or watch on TV... It's WHO we are in relation to those things.

excon

Thanks for your answer Exy, I was thinking you might be the first poster, lol!

Yep, that's true. I was just typing the question for the debate :)

That is one of the reason why I wanted to make this thread, to have the point of view of people in general.

Hey unky,

For me porn has never been an issue,in any of my relationships.

But I wondered if teenagers/young men/women who over expose themselves to soft/hard core porn have unrealistic expectations from their partners,when in a relationship.

Different age groups will have varying degrees of opinion on porn,perhaps because,younger people have not yet experienced any relationship problems from watching porn,while older people who have seen marraiges crumble because of it,will be dead against it.

There are pros and cons to almost every subject,I agree with excon in that its depends on the person, and also where that person draws the line.

Thanks Red for your answer!

Yes, I think that everything has it's 'good' and 'bad'. Abusing however always become 'bad'.

I have two interesting anecdotes for you, Unk, one pro, the other con.

Many people like myself struggle with addictive personalities. I have found that over the years my tastes in adult art have become more jaded, leading me to seek out more explicit/extreme works. This can easily be compared to the tolerance phenomena found in drug addicts. By the way, my fantasy life is under control, and my wife tolerates it.

My children were exposed to porn as infants. It was on while they were going to sleep. To this day, it knocks them out faster than a political speech.

The definition of pornography is also relevant. I have said many times that I would prefer to see people making love rather than some supernatural serial killer slashing young girls to pieces. Which do you think is more hurtful to developing psyches?

My opinion on porn is about the same as my feelings towards other vice/moral issues such as alcohol, gambling, cigarettes, etc. I think that child porn should remain illegal, but other porn should not be regulated by the government, adults should be free to use it if they wish and people who don't like it should choose not to watch it themselves and not judge people who do. It is up to parents to monitor what their children are doing and not leave porn accessible to children in their homes. I don't think that porn is that harmful though, when I was a kid, nearly everyone flipped though old copies of their dad's or older brother's Playboy and Penthouse magazines and it didn't turn us into criminals.

I think if you'r single what you do is your business but if you are married and your spouse is not "into it" as much as you,then you should cut it out completely,I feel like a husband that watches porn behind his wife's back is messing with the sanctity of the marriage.

I started looking at playboys and penthouse at 8 or 9 years old(note to dads with young sons under your bed isn't the best hiding spot) Then a friend of mine showed me a porn film when I was 10 or 11. You would think that I am probably some porn addicted freak but I am not. If anything I think looking at it that young made me get bored of it like any other kid who loses interest in something at that age. By the time I was 12 I started dating anyway. I never expected my girlfriends to act that way but I did lose my virginity very young so maybe the porn had something to do with that. But I would credit the girl I first had sex with more then the porn.

I rarely watch porn now the only time I do is if my wife is gone for business and I need to release which isn't very often.I never go to strip clubs, Never cheated on my wife or pretty much any girlfriend I had. The only thing I think it did do to me is I really like to talk dirty during sex. Nothing disrespectful or anything like that but you know what I mean.

It depends on the porn and how it's used. Snuff films at one extreme, obviously not good. But I think there's lots of porn out there that is less extreme that still depicts women as basically useful objects, or a collection of cool sex toys, rather than as people. I think that's bad for both men and women, morally and functionally.

In principle, I'm not against porn, for the same reasons earl237 said, but the reality is that I think a lot of porn is objectionable, because it's violent or because it promotes a lack of respect for women.

Also, so *many* women come here saying that their boyfriends and husbands won't make love, preferring to wait until the woman is asleep and then go satisfy themselves with porn. At that point, it's less about objectifying women and more a chronic behavior that is damaging intimate relationships. To an extent, I think that's a sign of the individual guy's lack of self control and general immaturity--just short term thinking generally--and not directly the fault of the porn per se. Nobody is making them do that. But is it good for society to have so many men doing that? Hard to see how it is.

So to sum up, I'm conflicted about it because I'm not generally in favor of censorship, but I do think that porn has a negative effect on women overall. That said, I'm sure there are plenty of exceptions. I'm just talking about the overall picture.

Hi Unky!
I think as with anything else in life a good motto is "moderation in all things".

Anything to excess and that's where the trouble begins.

While some couples would say viewing porn has saved their marriage ,some would say it has ruined it.

Exploitive porn in any way ie; child pornography is always a huge no no in my book.
As is porn that is deviant in nature,people and animals ,creepy things like that.

Hi Unky.

I agree with the others and have to add, I can take it or leave it, porn that is.

Most porn is just too cheesy for me. I'm the girl in the room that's snickering because the acting (if you can call it that) is terrible and the music isn't fit for an elevator. Yup, I'm the buzz kill. ;)

As for magazines, it depends. I don't like the hardcore, in your face, look at my junk magazines. I like the tasteful ones, where something is left to the imagination.

I know, shocking isn't it? ;)

I've never had a problem with porn.
If my partner and I are having an "off week" but he still needs a bit of action then he will have a bit of a porn session on the computer.
Doesn't bother me at all, saves him annoying me when I'm not in the mood

Most of the time though it's a mutual thing, we watch together.
I agree with you on the cheese factor Alty, some of the movies are more comedy than sexy!
We actually have a couple of hentai (or cartoon porn) movies that we watch just for a laugh rather than to get in the mood, the translations from japanese are hilarious!

I've never had a problem with porn.
If my partner and i are having an "off week" but he still needs a bit of action then he will have a bit of a porn session on the computer.
Doesn't bother me at all, saves him annoying me when I'm not in the mood

Most of the time though it's a mutual thing, we watch together.
I agree with you on the cheese factor Alty, some of the movies are more comedy than sexy!
We actually have a couple of hentai (or cartoon porn) movies that we watch just for a laugh rather than to get in the mood, the translations from japanese are hilarious!

You want cheesy?
Zombie strippers from hell ,now that a real turn-on :D It's a movie by the way! Not my personal preference :rolleyes:

If I want to watch people, um, "make love" (I'm going to vomit) then I prefer the how too kama sutra tapes that hubby and I got.

There, I bared my soul. Go ahead, throw rocks. ;)

If I want to watch people, um, "make love" (I'm going to vomit) then I prefer the how too kama sutra tapes that hubby and I got.

There, I bared my soul. Go ahead, throw rocks. ;)

Are you kidding?
That's what its all about is the inner connection! I get it baby , and as often as I can :D

Are you kidding?
Thats what its all about is the inner connection! I get it baby , and as often as I can :D

Ditto. :cool:

Oops, this is Unky's thread. Unky is under 18! We have to keep this PG.

Unky, we get popcorn, that's what Arsty was talking about. With butter, and salt. :D

Ditto. :cool:

Oops, this is Unky's thread. Unky is under 18! We have to keep this PG.

Unky, we get popcorn, that's what Arsty was talking about. With butter, and salt. :D

I said love so that's a good thing to know... all we need is love Unky,that's the way to go :D

I said love so thats a good thing to know...all we need is love Unky,thats the way to go :D

Make love not war? :cool:

Do you have Halloween in Canada?
I'm really that stupid that I don't know :)

I had a wonderful young man, hired him to work in my warehouse, there was a computer in the office, he was not suppose to be using it, but was "allowed" to check emails during lunch.

Well we had a program to tell us every web site visited, and had a strick computer use policy that he signed.

Well he could not stop looking at porn, I gave him two written warnings and even banned him from the computer, but he still had to sneak in and look at porn. I fired him.

I had a wonderful young man, hired him to work in my warehouse, there was a computer in the office, he was not suppose to be using it, but was "allowed" to check emails during lunch.

well we had a program to tell us every web site visited, and had a strick computer use policy that he signed.

well he could not stop looking at porn, I gave him two written warnings and even banned him from the computer, but he still had to sneak in and look at porn. I fired him.

Now that's addiction! :eek:

I don't understand this particular addiction, seeing as it's not a chemical addiction like cigarettes or alcohol, but a mental one. I would think this particular addiction would be easy to control, then again, I've never experienced it, so what do I know?

I just don't understand how someone can get addicted to unrealistic sex acts on a computer monitor or TV screen. I mean really, I've never seen a good porn movie, they're all just fluff, bad acting, unrealistic crap. I see how they can serve a purpose, but I don't understand the addiction.

If I want to get in the mood then putting on a regular porn video will do the exact opposite. Unless you're turned on by me rolling on the floor laughing so hard that my side aches. ;)

From my past ( we all have them) I have known a lady or two that was turned on by them but that was "thier" thing, not really mine.

Too often it gives men esp a unrealistic idea of what sex is suppose to be, gives them a very low opinion of women as a sex toy and not another person to respect.

From my past ( we all have them) I have known a lady or two that was turned on by them but that was "thier" thing, not really mine.

Too often it gives men esp a unrealistic idea of what sex is suppose to be, gives them a very low opinion of women as a sex toy and not another person to respect.

I've always found them cheesy and unrealistic, but to each their own, I guess. ;)

The women in porn are not only bad actors but over the top, unrealistic, store bought boobs, arse, legs and tan. They're not real in real life, much less on the movie screen.

It does give men an unrealistic expectation of sex.

Let me assure all you boys, no girl is going to come up behind you while you're making photocopies in the mail room and just rip off your clothes and go at it on top of the machine. It'll never happen, so stop dreaming!

My work here is done. You're welcome. ;)

Hello again:

Ok, let's talk about porn. I'm cool with the IDEA of porn, but in reality, most of it sucks.. I got a lot of complaints...

First off, I don't like fake boobs. They don't jiggle right. What's worse is when you can see 'em moving under her skin. YUK! If I was, shall we say, getting into it before that, it was over for me...

Next, I don't like shaved beaver. I don't like a jungle, either, but, let's just say that smoothy and I have different tastes.. A shaved bush looks, how shall I put it, pre-pubescent. I'm not into kids...

I don't like the slam bam, stuff. It kind of hurts me just thinking about it. And, what's with all the spitting?? That doesn't turn me on either. I don't spit. I lick... And, you know without clitoral stimulation, all that moaning is fake...

I also don't like all that a$$ wacking. That doesn't do it for me. I don't hit my wimin. A little bite here and there, maybe...

I also don't like all that choking and gagging. If the chick can't take it and make it at least LOOK palatable, then she shouldn't be gobbling more than she can handle..

Ok, is there any stuff I like?? Not much. I like lovemaking. I like kissing. I like taking a woman's clothes off slowly. They don't make hetrosexual porn like that...

They DO make lesbian porn like that. I like it.

Is that more than you wanted to know?

excon

PS> Artsy, I speak Japanese..

Hello again:

Ok, let's talk about porn. I'm cool with the IDEA of porn, but in reality, most of it sucks.. I got a lot of complaints...

First off, I don't like fake boobs. They don't jiggle right. What's worse is when you can see 'em moving under her skin. YUK! If I was, shall we say, getting into it before that, it was over for me...

Next, I don't like shaved beaver. I don't like a jungle, either, but, let's just say that smoothy and I have different tastes.. A shaved bush looks, how shall I put it, pre-pubescent. I'm not into kids...

I don't like the slam bam, stuff. It kinda hurts me just thinking about it. And, what's with all the spitting???? That doesn't turn me on either. I don't spit. I lick... And, you know without clitoral stimulation, all that moaning is fake...

I also don't like all that a$$ wacking. That doesn't do it for me. I don't hit my wimin. A little bite here and there, maybe...

I also don't like all that choking and gagging. If the chick can't take it and make it at least LOOK palatable, then she shouldn't be gobbling more than she can handle..

Ok, is there any stuff I like??? Not much. I like lovemaking. I like kissing. I like taking a womans clothes off slowly. They don't make hetrosexual porn like that...

They DO make lesbian porn like that. I like it.

Is that more than you wanted to know?

excon

PS> Artsy, I speak Japanese..

Oh my goodness,I was watching a show with my BF tonight and I said"now those are nice boob's ,they move",they are real and so we are on the same page again!
What's up wit that? :cool:

I had a wonderful young man, hired him to work in my warehouse, there was a computer in the office, he was not suppose to be using it, but was "allowed" to check emails during lunch.

well we had a program to tell us every web site visited, and had a strick computer use policy that he signed.

well he could not stop looking at porn, I gave him two written warnings and even banned him from the computer, but he still had to sneak in and look at porn. I fired him.

You need to preface this better than I had a wonderful young man.It sounds different that how you meant it.If you get me.

What's worse is when you can see 'em moving under her skin.

I have to say something before I forget. My hubby was watching that annoying show "Manswers" yesterday and I think I finally figured out why by breasts are so big. Beer! Yes, beer!

Apparently women who drink beer can go up 1 or 2 cup sizes because of it.

I better stop drinking, I can't afford a new bra.

Back to Exy.

It's the moaning and rolling of the eyes that really gets to me. I've had sex with a mirror on the ceiling, trust me, I know what I look like whilst in the throes of passion and it's nowhere near what those girls are doing, thank God, or whoever you pray to. ;)

The fact is, it's so fake that it's funny. It's also annoying because people get off on it and it's not even close to the real deal.

So, Unky, my dear sweet underage Unky. Porn is okay if you think it's going to satisfy your urges, but, if you're watching it instead of doing the things you love to do, or if you're beginning to believe that the stuff you're watching is how it really is, then turn it off, burn the tapes and talk to us, because you know we care about you and you know I'll tell you the truth. :)

Another beer? Oh, what the heck, G cup, here I come. :eek:

PS> Artsy, I speak Japanese..
I have NO CLUE what that means ,seriously,I'm laughing but I have no clue .
Did we have a Japanese moment I forgot about ? :confused:
I feel pretty good about it actually

I feel pretty good about it actuallyHello again, artsy:

It was good for me too.

Ex

PS> I think the kama sutra is Japaneseish... Or, maybe it Chineseish. I don't know. Mongolianish??

Hello again, artsy:

It was good for me too.

ex

PS> I think the kama sutra is Japaneseish... Or, maybe it Chineseish. I dunno. Mongolianish???

Once you unleash me I am a whole different person :)

Do you have Halloween in Canada?
I'm really that stupid that I don't know :)

I just saw this. Now I'm giggling. Reminds me of being in Germany when I was 16. A bunch of girls interrogated me about Canada. Do we have McDonalds, do we live in Igloos, do we all wear seal fur? LMAO!

Yes, we have halloween, it's tomorrow, October 31, just like you. :)

Also, we do have McDonalds, I've never seen an igloo and I'm allergic to seal fur. I didn't find this out by wearing it or hunting these animals that I have to admit, I've never seen. I got an Eskimo doll for Xmas one year, it's clothing was made of seal fur, I broke out in hives.

What were we talking about? Oh yeah, porn.

Discuss. :)

Hello again, artsy:

It was good for me too.

ex

PS> I think the kama sutra is Japaneseish... Or, maybe it Chineseish. I dunno. Mongolianish???

Exy baby, I'm the one that brought up the kama sutra. :)

FYI, it's Indian. :)

I just saw this. Now I'm giggling. Reminds me of being in Germany when I was 16. A bunch of girls interrogated me about Canada. Do we have McDonalds, do we live in Igloos, do we all wear seal fur? LMAO!

Yes, we have halloween, it's tomorrow, October 31, just like you. :)

Also, we do have McDonalds, I've never seen an igloo and I'm allergic to seal fur. I didn't find this out by wearing it or hunting these animals that I have to admit, I've never seen. I got an Eskimo doll for Xmas one year, it's clothing was made of seal fur, I broke out in hives.

What were we talking about? Oh yeah, porn.

Discuss. :)

Once this buzzed lady said it (I use the term lady lightly) I knew I had messed up.
Druids.. jeezs they were everywhere :eek:
I am a Druid.Mother Earth.. COOL! :D

Once this buzzed lady said it (I use the term lady lightly) I knew I had messed up.
Druids..jeezs they were everywhere :eek:
I am a Druid.Mother Earth ..COOL! :D

Buzzed lady. :p

Too bad you're taken, you'd be perfect for Exy. Sadly, I've got my claws into him. Shhh, don't tell him, he doesn't know. ;)

Did I scare everyone away? :(

:: pout, pout, pout::

Sigh.

Waaaaaa!

I'm so bored I could knit!

Did I scare everyone away? :(

:: pout, pout, pout::

Sigh.

Waaaaaa!

I'm so bored I could knit!

Good girl :)

Good girl :)

:confused:

Are you talking about the knitting?

I hate knitting.

I can knit, but I hate it.

I'm also not fond of cooking, even though I'm a good cook.

I need a maid.

Any volunteers?

Exy?

Ooops... WT. :(

No worries guys! Thanks for the wonderful answers! :)

Don't worry Alty, the first time I saw porn was at the swimming pool during a competition, yes, surprisingly! I was waiting for my turn to swim, all the swimmers were grouped on a fleet of stairs (steps perhaps would be better). And one girl, she was around the 18s I think, had her mobile with a vagina on the screen! I was thinking "what the h*ck was that!?" Well, I had only a glance, then she switched off.

It was only later, much later on that I realised what that actually was. I'm not hooked to it, I don't watch it either. I have other things to do ;)

It's perhaps one of the reasons I started that thread. I have little experience, and cannot say concrete facts about it, but you, you have a lifelong experience, plus your own personal experience that I really appreciate. :)

Cats: I never expected that you use porn to make your children go to sleep :eek: [if I got what you said earlier, that is to say]

Their first exposure was accidental. Walking around carrying a baby as he/she fights going to sleep is well known to every parent. Late night TV had some softcore on, and the cheesy music lulled him right to sleep.

He never stayed awake past midnight after that. A couple of months later a videotape in another room made nap time easy.

It worked the same way on our second. They're 24 and 16 and totally bored with the whole concept now.

Just like any potentially addictive substance or act, it needs to be used, or viewed in moderation.

I truly feel that GOD's greatest creation was woman. From head to toe.

Ever since I found my Daddy's old Playboys in the attic, I have been a big fan of the female form. But now, at this stage of my life, I only have eyes for one, the mother of my children. And before the boys were born, she would renew my subscription to Playboy. Tasteful pornography is not a problem for us.

However, here is a quote to ponder:

". . . I've met a lot of men who were motivated to commit violence just like me. And without exception, every one of them was deeply involved in pornography . . . "


Ted Bundy in an interview with Dr. James Dobson shortly before his execution.

One problem with modern Playboy centerfolds is that they are now skinny and unnatural looking. Look at old copies from the 50s to the 70s and the women looked very beautiful and natural, but by the late 90s, they looked like barbie dolls, only with more plastic, fake tan, tattoos, etc. I can see why hardly anyone reads it anymore. The articles have also gone downhill. (Yes people did read the articles believe it or not!)

One problem with modern Playboy centerfolds is that they are now skinny and unnatural looking. Look at old copies from the 50s to the 70s and the women looked very beautiful and natural, but by the late 90s, they looked like barbie dolls, only with more plastic, fake tan, tattoos, etc. I can see why hardly anyone reads it anymore. The articles have also gone downhill. (Yes people did read the articles believe it or not!)

Haha they old "I only buy it for the articles" excuse ;)

Nah, my partner buys them on occasion, we have fun going through and picking the fake boobs out and picking our 'favourite' girl on each page...
The articles used to be good but as you said, even they aren't worth the read anymore, I don't think we have actually bought one for about 6 months, he used to get the old ones for free because he worked next to a newsagency.

But presumably Playboy is giving its readers what they want. So I think you have to ask why other men want that?

I just read the Linda Lovelace entry at Wikipedia. What an awful life she had. I see lots of efforts to discredit her, and I think anyone subjected to so much brutality and pain (psychic and physical) is bound to be an imperfect person given to deviousness and occasional lies (a survival skill), but I think the overall picture of total humiliation, degradation, and abuse by her pornographer husband is inescapable.

I believe that most successful pornography fosters the idea that men are entitled to have women and to take women with some degree of force if they are not willing and that women enjoy degradation, so it's "okay."

I have always been puzzled by the whole concept of the rape fantasy. I have the feeling that (some) men fantasize about raping women a lot more than women fantasize about being raped and that when women do have such fantasies, they are pretty tame compared to what men have in mind. I have never had any desire to be raped. And the times men have attempted it or coerced me in some fashion, I felt awful, just awful. I felt betrayed.

The articles used to be good but as you said, even they aren't worth the read anymore,..

I am guessing this is a market problem. They may have lost circulation due to pornography on the internet, which means less ad revenue, which means less ability to hire good writers. I'm just surmising, but I know a little about the magazine business.

I read somewhere that 80% of the pornography industry is owned by organized crime. Is that true?

Hmm, this is interesting.. organised crime linked to porn :rolleyes:

I don't know, but I have read an article about employee misconduct in a tax thingy, and they were accessing porn from their governmental computers. According to that article (Washington times), one senior executive spent at least 331 days looking at porn and chatting online with nude or partially clad women without being detected.

I got that from a post of speechless, http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/sep/29/workers-porn-surfing-rampant-at-federal-agency/print/

The rape fantasy is a common one among both men and women. I've never had that fantasy, probably because I lived the reality.

Porn is so easily accessible now, it wasn't back in the 50's, 60's, 70's, even the 80's and part of the 90's. Now you just have to type in a few words on Google and the sky's the limit. I would imagine that this would have a big impact on magazine and movie sales. It only makes sense, why pay if you can get it for free?

The scary thing is that the internet isn't regulated well enough. There is really no limit to what you can find. Child porn, hard core porn, videos of rape. It's a scary world and we're allowing it into our homes just by having internet access.

The regular porn, magazines, videos at the video store, although cheesy, they are mainstream and regulated. They go under scrutiny before being released to the public. The porn on the internet doesn't.

I think this is why we have so many people asking about porn and porn addiction, because we've made porn too available.

I posted this to another thread, but it seems relevant here, in terms of my question about organized crime.

Local News | Feds say prostitution rampant at strip clubs | Seattle Times Newspaper (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2004453793_search03m.html)

Alty, are there surveys that show that a lot of women enjoy rape fantasies? I accept that some do. But I'm questioning whether there's actually good evidence that it's mainstream.

Alty, are there surveys that show that a lot of women enjoy rape fantasies? I accept that some do. But I'm questioning whether there's actually good evidence that it's mainstream

I know it's a common fantasy, but mainstream, I'm not sure. I haven't seen any surveys, I'm just going by my friends, some of the posters on this site etc.

One thing that I find interesting when talking to people that do have this fantasy,there is one common theme. Although they're being raped, they are still in complete control of the situation.

Fantasy is fine, whatever floats your boat, but the reality of rape, I don't think many people understand it, unless they've lived through it.

Although they're being raped, they are still in complete control of the situation.

I find this hard to believe... :eek:

Thanks for the link asking! I'll check it soon.

I find this hard to believe... :eek:

Thanks for the link asking! I'll check it soon.

That's their fantasy Unky, not the reality.

No one in their right mind would fantasize about an actual rape. Even a woman that hasn't been raped has some idea about what's involved.

The fantasy rape doesn't resemble a real rape. Most times it's just a man (always attractive, strong, a stranger) comes into your home and demands sex. You want to resist but you're also turned on. He rapes you but, in the fantasy you always have control. At least that's the common theme among the people I've talked to. Like I said, I don't have this particular fantasy, because I've experienced the reality of rape.

Ah, thanks for the 'enlightenment'. :)

I see that you're not as 'empty headed' as you said you are, but more like full of knowledge, fun and niceness ;). I know I know, don't look at me like that, I won't say it to anybody!

Originally Posted by Alty
Although they're being raped, they are still in complete control of the situation.

I find this hard to believe... :eek:



Me, too. I don't get what that means. If they are "in control," how is it rape? Do they just mean an aggressive and enthusiastic male but the woman consents completely? That's not rape; that's fun!

I agree that it sounds like they don't really know what rape is...

Me, too. I don't get what that means. If they are "in control," how is it rape? Do they just mean an aggressive and enthusiastic male but the woman consents completely? That's not rape; that's fun!

I agree that it sounds like they don't really know what rape is...

It's a rape fantasy, and because it's fantasy you are in control.

You're right, it's not really rape, not in the real sense of the word. It's a romantic version of rape, if there is such a thing.

It's not something I fantasize about so I really can't describe it, I can only tell you all what my friends that do have this fantasy say about it.

Ah, thanks for the 'enlightenment'. :)

I see that you're not as 'empty headed' as you said you are, but more like full of knowledge, fun and niceness ;). I know I know, don't look at me like that, I won't say it to anybody!

Empty headed? :confused: :eek:

I'm full of something, maybe it's knowledge. ;)

Now shhhh, don't tell anyone, it's our secret.

Alty, I didn't see your post explaining before I posted. I see better what they have in mind. Yeah, it is pretty far from a real rape. "They want to resist" sounds like they feel they should resist, which is pretty different. ;)

Alty, I didn't see your post explaining before I posted. I see better what they have in mind. Yeah, it is pretty far from a real rape. "They want to resist" sounds like they feel they should resist, which is pretty different. ;)

Exactly. It's a rape in the fact that it's a stranger, he's barging in, he's forcing himself on you but you're thrilled, know you should resist but you don't want to.

It's very far from an actual rape but it's still considered a rape fantasy.

Empty headed? :confused: :eek:

I'm full of something, maybe it's knowledge. ;)

Now shhhh, don't tell anyone, it's our secret.

Yes, well, you said it in another way:


I've come to the conclusion that I know nothing, or very little anyway. ;)

From social groups ;)

Back in a few!

AHHH! Unky, are you stalking me? ;)

It's very far from an actual rape but it's still considered a rape fantasy.

I think it's important to make that distinction. It's easy for some men to justify rape (or at least considering or condoning it) because they think "women secretly want it."

(I wish you had not been raped. :()

Exactly. It's a rape in the fact that it's a stranger, he's barging in, he's forcing himself on you but you're thrilled, know you should resist but you don't want to.

It's very far from an actual rape but it's still considered a rape fantasy.

You've just summarized the plotlines of half the Romance section at Barnes & Noble.

To say nothing of Romeo and Juliette. They both know they should resist but don't want to. Forbidden fruit and all that.

I think it's important to make that distinction. It's easy for some men to justify rape (or at least considering or condoning it) because they think "women secretly want it."

(I wish you had not been raped. :()

I wish it hadn't happened too, but as my mother always said "If wishes were horses then paupers would ride". ;)

It was a long time ago. I was 18. It was a friend of an ex boyfriend and it happened in my house, in my bed, while my parents were away. I didn't have a snowballs chance in hell.

In a twisted sort of a way that rape lead me to where I am now. Actually, it's amazing, if you look back at your life, all the things you regret doing, or having had happen, you'll realize that everything has lead you to now. I like now. Now is good. :)

I can't change it, so I live with it. It's a part of who I am, and I like who I am. It doesn't define me, it's just something that happened to me. There are so many other things that I am, I'm not a victim, I'm a survivor, and I survive every day with my head held high.

I'm also a survivor of child molestation, which was a lot harder to overcome. That was at the hands of my cousin and lasted for years. But still, that doesn't define me. It's a small piece of my past, not a big chunk of my future.

I've overcome a lot of obstacles and I'm here, ready to leap over any obstacle put in my way. No sense sucking my thumb and crying over it, that won't change anything and then I lose. I choose to win.

:)

You forgot I was in the conversation too and your words there sort of just clicked in my mind Alty, I was not stalking!

You forgot I was in the convo too and your words there sort of just clicked in my mind Alty, I was not stalking!

LOL!

I was just pulling your leg Unky. You know me, I like to tease. ;)

sucking my thumb
:)

Let me do that for you.

Let me do that for you.

:eek: Wrong thread! :eek:

Oh, what the heck. Here it is. :: offers thumb::

FYI, I just picked up dog poo. Sorry. :o

LOL!

I was just pulling your leg Unky. You know me, I like to tease. ;)

Yes, I know quite a part of you by now :)

I too was saying that in joke, no worry :p

:eek: Wrong thread! :eek:

Oh, what the heck. Here it is. :: offers thumb::

FYI, I just picked up dog poo. Sorry. :o

T'is okay to suck thumbs here, I allow you to :D

T'is okay to suck thumbs here, I allow you to :D

The moment passed, Unky. Not to worry.

A good friend of mine is very into the whole 'rape fantasy' thing.
She has never done it but very much would like to.
Her and her husband have a very open relationship, they are both allowed to sleep with other people as long as they have permission. She wants her husband to organise a friend of his to sneak into their house and have his way with her.
She doesn't want to know the time, date or person that is doing it, she just wants some sort of indication that it is not real (guy in the mask has a bowtie or something)

I do understand the attraction to it but I personally could never do it.

To add my 2 cents there also seems to be a hell of a lot of confusion when it comes to porn and even fantasies of how far people are willing to go.

Ive been subjected to porn from a young age, and I also don't mind watching porn as shazamataz said but that's where the fantasy stops for lack of better wording.

We have some friends that are into some pretty weird stuff
But whether they would actually go through with them, that's another story entirety!

Oh, well thanks Shazzy and Bahamut! :)

Weird, isn't it how some people want to get raped, and think that is some kind of pleasant thing, or good thing for them, the way I see it anyway.

Oh, well thanks Shazzy and Bahamut! :)

Weird, isn't it how some people want to get raped, and think that is some kind of pleasant thing, or good thing for them, the way I see it anyway.

I think it's really a non-alcoholic way of shedding inhibitions. The old "It's not my fault, I was forced to" argument.

Hmm, I think I get your point...

Sort of want it, but not letting everyone else know that 'you' want it because this sort of 'downgrades' 'you', so 'you' look for some excuse to be able to experience it.

Exactly. If you have no choice but to have sex, then you are free to have sex without feeling guilty about it.

A solution to the Puritan attitude of repression.

Phew! I didn't think people had to do this kind of thing anymore.

My children were exposed to porn as infants. It was on while they were going to sleep. To this day, it knocks them out faster than a political speech.


?

I'm sorry but I find this disturbing.
If it was anyone else everyone would have jumped all over it.
Exposing children to pornography is a form of child abuse and disgusting.
Infant or not growing minds do not need this exposure.

I'm sorry but I find this disturbing.
If it was anyone else everyone would have jumped all over it.
exposing children to pornography is a form of child abuse and disgusting.
infant or not growing minds do not need this exposure.

What do you find disgusting about naked people making love?

I'm sorry but I find this disturbing.
If it was anyone else everyone would have jumped all over it.
exposing children to pornography is a form of child abuse and disgusting.
infant or not growing minds do not need this exposure.

Are you thinking that Cats exposed his children to hard core porn?

I was raised with very German parents. In Germany nudity and sex aren't kept in the closet like they are in the States and Canada. Because of this most teens aren't that eager to have sex, because it's not something mysterious that has been hidden from them all their lives.

It's a lot like alcohol. The legal drinking age in Germany is 14 (not the hard stuff, but beer, wine etc) and because of this early exposure most teens get it out of their system by the time they're 18.

So let me ask you a question.

I don't run and hide if I'm naked and my 11 year old son is coming into my room. It's my body, there's nothing to be ashamed about. If he's uncomfortable with it then he knows not to come into my room when I'm just out of the shower or changing.

He isn't uncomfortable with it, because he grew up with it. After all, we all have a body, and underneath our clothing we're all naked. Because of this he's not one of those children that needs to make it his life mission to see a girl naked. A lot of people think that I'm wrong, that I should quickly cover myself if my son happens to walk in while I'm naked. Why, so I can teach him that the naked body is a scary thing? I don't think so.

No, I don't let my kids watch porn, nor do I invite them into the bedroom when my husband and I are having sex, but, if they have questions, I answer them. I'd rather they hear it from me then their friends that think that babies come from storks or the cabbage patch. Misinformation is the reason we have so many teens posting on AMHD about pregnancy and other sexually related things that should be common knowledge.

I have a video tape of my daughter being born. Around 2 years ago, when my son was 9 and my daughter was 5, I was watching the tape. We were going through our videos to put them on an actual video tape and I got all nostalgic when I saw the birth video, sat down to watch. My son walked in, I paused the tape. Not because I was ashamed, but because I thought it might upset him. I had an episiotomy and there was a lot of blood.

I told him what the video was, that it may scare him and that it was his choice to watch or not. He called his sister in. I told her the same thing. They decided to watch and I sat back with my hand on the remote ready to stop if they found it too disturbing. They loved it. They found it amazing. To this day they ask to see it every once in a while. My son is actually upset that we don't have a video of him being born. We didn't have a camera then. :(

Am I a bad parent? What's your opinion?

My maternal grandparents were German and I remember having wine when I was about 12. I admit I got drunk once when I was in grade 12 at a graduation party but I quickly outgrew it and from then on, I only drank in moderation. I never saw what was so fun about getting drunk and sick every weekend like typical Canadian people.

You can TRY to make it sound innocent all you want

you can TRY to make it sound innocent all you want

What about it do you find so alarming?

Is nudity and sex a bad thing to you or part of who we are?

I'm not saying that you should put on hard core porn and sit your kids down to watch it, either is Cats. I think you're reading too much into this.

Sex is a natural act, it's people that make it unnatural and something to be ashamed of. Nudity is also natural, but society has deemed it as inappropriate and taboo. My kids haven't seen porn, but if I was watching it and one of them walked in, I would explain, I wouldn't just rush to hide what I was doing, making it seem like a bad thing.

I would like to hear what you find so alarming about all of this. I would recommend that you re-read Cats post before you respond because I think you missed something when reading it the first time.

Zippit, did you happen to read Cats follow up post that it was the music that put the kids to sleep? They didn't even stay awake long enough to hear any sounds that could be construed as 'sexual'.

Taste and morality are not always easy to justify. Why should the fork be on the left? "Why does it matter and why do I have to remember that?", asks my 16 year old son. I give him answers, but they aren't good ones.

Sex and nudity are similar. If you belong to a tribe of natives who habitually go nude, the idea that you would need to cover up at all ever would seem bizarre. On the other hand, if the CEO of Bechtel showed up at the office in the buff, it would be an issue. So I think we have to respect what people are accustomed to.

There is nothing intrinsically wrong with nudity, but nonetheless it makes some people uncomfortable. I went to a nude beach once by accident. I got there early in the morning when no one else was there, and was just sitting watching the waves. Gradually more and more nude people began to show up and soon I was one of only a couple of people with clothes. I tried to be cool about this, but one naked guy kept walking by and trying to start a conversation with me, and another couple came and set up immediately behind me and they smelled really bad, in a genital sort of way. Yuck. I got up and left. Not my thing. That's me. Their beach, I won't go back!

Frankly, sexual mores are no different in my opinion. Bonobos, which are the "other" chimpanzees, the ones that have sex constantly and are semi-matriarchal, engage in passionate kissing, oral sex, you name it. They are probably our closest relatives and they also engage in sexual activities with juveniles (children). Is it "wrong" for them to do this? It's hard for me to say that it is. They obviously don't think so. Is it wrong for humans to do this? We nearly all agree that it is. And partly because we all agree it's bad, it becomes bad. Someone who has been sexually abused as a child feels shamed. I'm not defending child sexual abuse by any means. I am just saying that nudity in front of kids may feel fine for Alty and not fine for Zippit. I have a hard time saying that either of you is wrong (or right). (Nor do I feel like I am a moral relativist generally.)

I feel that the important question is always whether someone is injured. In the case of household nudity, I don't know of any evidence that it injures children. But it still feels wrong to me, like putting the fork on the right, only more so. When my 7-year-old starting coming into my bathroom specifically to stare at me naked, I began to feel uncomfortable and asked him to leave. Maybe that was wrong, but that was my decision. I was trying to be relaxed about it up until then. I was certainly more relaxed than my own mother. But I just wanted some privacy. He was making me uncomfortable.

I think pornography falls into a different category, because so much of it is not simple depictions of love making between consenting adults or of simple unaffected nudity, but mostly depictions of various kinds of humiliations and inequities in power. My opinion is that humiliation and inequality are never good for people. I'm really clear about that in my head.

A long time ago, my ex pressured me to watch pornographic videos with him and they left me feeling kind of sick. I particularly remember being disturbed by Behind the Green Door. After a while I wouldn't do it anymore. On the other hand I had a boyfriend in my 20s who liked to look at Penthouse with me and somehow he made it seem safe and amusing. He was just a nicer person and I never felt like a third wheel. During my marriage, I tried to share what felt like safer pornography with my ex husband and he rejected it and made fun of it. So that was that.

I feel that the important question is always whether someone is injured. In the case of household nudity, I don't know of any evidence that it injures children. But it still feels wrong to me, like putting the fork on the right, only more so. When my 7-year-old starting coming into my bathroom specifically to stare at me naked, I began to feel uncomfortable and asked him to leave. Maybe that was wrong, but that was my decision. I was trying to be relaxed about it up until then. I was certainly more relaxed than my own mother. But I just wanted some privacy. He was making me uncomfortable.

If you are uncomfortable with it then of course you shouldn't do it. My kids have never come into the room just to stare at me, nor does it make me uncomfortable to be naked in front of them.

It's not like I walk around the house naked shaking what my mama gave me, I just don't hide my nudity if my kids should happen to walk in on me when I'm naked.

The thing that bothered me about Zippit's post was the fact that he was judging because it's not okay to him. That's his right, but to admonish someone else because of a choice that they made, that's not his right and it made me mad.

We all have different parenting styles. We all have different boundaries with our kids. We all have been raised differently as well and that also reflects on how we raise our children.

I am a survivor of child molestation by my cousins hand. I am a lot more careful then most parents about who I leave my children with. Because of my fears we don't get to go out a lot, because there are only two people that I trust to babysit.

Most people would say that I'm being overly cautious, but I'm not comfortable changing my ways. I could do it, but I wouldn't be happy about it.

Would I look down on someone else because they leave their kids with teens they hardly know? No. I may not be comfortable with it but it's their choice.

I just don't think it's right that Zippit would dare to judge someone else. I'm sure that there are things he does as a parent that we wouldn't agree with either.

Good points all, asking.

Zippit, please come back with your reasons you think pornography is bad.

Unky started this to get a debate going, let's go.

Here are my points, please refute them in any order you choose:


Simple depictions of men and women having sex are positive images/videos.

Using implied sex and violence to sell Halloween costumes(among other things) is much more negative and harmful to developing personalities than explicit sex.

Explicit sex movies are boring to those not interested in sex.

False depictions are everywhere, not only in pornography.

Poor dialogue, strained plots, forgettable music, and mediocre photography make for bad movies regardless of subject matter.

You see more hardcore stuff on billboards these days than in the old cheesy porn films...

Boom-chicka-waa-waa

Simple depictions of men and women having sex are positive images/videos.

It depends firstly on who is watching. If you take Zippit for example, I don't think he'll see it as positive ;). Hmm.. positive perhaps in the way that is provides some sort of experience of how to do things, except that nowadays, like you said earlier, it's not the real thing most of the time, but fake ones, set up, nothing like what really happens in life.


Using implied sex and violence to sell Halloween costumes(among other things) is much more negative and harmful to developing personalities than explicit sex.

I agree. However, that doesn't mean that explicit sex is not harmful at all.


Explicit sex movies are boring to those not interested in sex.

True, though some might have some weird reactions in seeing them (:p)


False depictions are everywhere, not only in pornography.

Yes, but again, does that mean that we have to go forward with pornography?


Poor dialogue, strained plots, forgettable music, and mediocre photography make for bad movies regardless of subject matter.

Then, don't watch the movie!

~~~~

Okay, not my real me in there. I'm trying to simulate the arguments, trying to give rebuts. Sorry if that may sound 'offensive' or who knows 'defensive' but I consider that in a debate, you have to do everything, even if that may be insensible to some, to win.

Anyone has other ways to tackle with that? Or perhaps more arguments?

Oh, yes, Zippit, I'd love to hear your arguments. They will definitely help me :)

Please, Unky, no apologies for legitimate debate. I welcome the response, especially from other points of view.


Refuting the rebuttal:

The eye of the beholder is the entire point of the debate. Those of us who prefer complete nudity and cornstatch gel (used to simulate sexual fluids) over semi-nudity, knives, and red-dyed corn syrup (fake blood) get very defensive whenever the corn syrup crowd pronounces from on high that the cornstarch should be banned.

There are six billion people on this planet. If sex is harmful, why is there so much of it? Depictions of anything will cause questions to be asked. Answering the questions, while sometimes awkward or embarrasing, is not harmful to asker or answerer.

If, by allowing pornography to go forward, other subject matter escapes censure, does that not move everyone closer to wisdom?

Cheap exploitation makes bad movies of all subjects. Foxy Brown and Navy Seals did not contribute to the art of moviemaking, while House of Dreams and 91/2 Weeks did.


In Conclusion:

Everyone has different tastes. The entertainment industry will try to profit from every subject imaginable. Sex is only one of many. Should only one be labelled "bad?"

There is so much of it because people have to procreate. It is only natural to do that. Porn, on the other hand is affecting people. From the previous page, I posted a link to an article, showing that a great majority of people showing misconduct were watching porn through their computers during work hours. Teens are being affected by it in a way that they want to perform sex as soon as possible, resulting in early motherhood.

A better way to wisdom is (perhaps) to separate all censures, and deal with them separately.

Ok, I had to think of that one for a while:

1. There are many other films that certain people call bad. Films involving violence, too much sudden colours (an example are some video games and cartoons where some children suffered from epilepsy).

2. And what about the free ones, that circulates around through mobile phones, internet, etc? Film companies have nothing to gain, but everything to lose! Their audience is largely reduced.

Porn should be banned imo.

Why should it be banned, because you can't stop watching it?

Here's the great part about being a human being, you have a choice. You don't have to watch porn if you find it distasteful, you can walk away.

Freedom of choice. If you ban porn how long before you ban cigarettes, then beer, then perhaps chocolate, or milk. If we banned things because a small portion of the world didn't like it, we'd have nothing.

Well masturbating to your imagination is pretty crap. Only thing is porn. Yet it is disturbing.

You find it disturbing but you need it in order to get off? That's disturbing!

Well masturbating to your imagination is pretty crap. Only thing is porn. Yet it is disturbing.

Then you need to develop your imagination. You might even imagine how to ask a girl out nicely, just to have fun with.

I agree it's possible to masturbate without porn. So that's an option, Serious Student. Or wean yourself from this porn and use something more innocuous.

But about banning things, I don't agree that banning things is necessarily bad. I am no libertarian (although I joined the libertarian party briefly, before I knew they objected to public schools and public libraries :) ). There are lots of things that we all agree are not good for us, either individually or as a group. We ban child pornography to protect children; nobody with a felony is allowed to teach children. Why not protect young women as assiduously as we protect children? A 19 year old may be an adult, but if she is unable to escape from an abusive pornographer like Chuck Traynor, aren't we all partly culpable for not making laws that limit the power of people like him?

Banning shouldn't be banned. The main reason not to ban cigarettes for example is not that it is essential to human life, but that banning creates a black market, provides a revenue stream for organized crime, and makes a deadly product more difficult to tax and regulate. (The other reason is that the industry has bought certain congressman.) We learned these things with prohibition. The failure of prohibition was not because alcohol wasn't a dangerous product that destroyed families. We ban or regulate all kinds of things, including a lot of materials needed to build bombs, and the distribution of thousands of pharmaceuticals. Why is it okay to tightly regulate a drug like Nexium or to ban speech that incites to riot but not things that kill thousands of people annually--like cigarettes and unhealthy foods?

It's become clear from the epidemic of obesity and diabetes that the food industry is destroying our health with what they call "eatertainment." Yes, we should resist eating too many nacho cheese doritos, but it would be a lot easier to resist if we were not bombarded with similar foods everywhere we went. These products appeal to us at a biological level that is difficult to resist and I think it's disingenuous to say to people, "just say no." It doesn't work for sex and it doesn't work for food.

I'm not saying individuals have no willpower, but average lifespan is getting shorter instead of longer. Are we going to let that happen and just shrug and let it happen because banning things is never good?

As far as I know, porn isn't being regulated anyway. Why not regulate it?

I have just convinced myself that pornography should be regulated! To be honest, I really hadn't thought much about it before.

The main reason not to ban cigarettes for example is not that it is essential to human life, but that banning creates a black market, provides a revenue stream for organized crime, and makes a deadly product more difficult to tax and regulate.

You hit the nail on the head Asking. That's what would most likely happen if porn was banned. After all, child porn is illegal but still available, it's just gone underground.

No, I'm not saying child porn is okay, of course not, but porn is supposed to be with consenting adults. Bad things happen in every industry, that's life. If porn was banned then it would be even more difficult to monitor people like Chuck Taylor. They'd still exist but we wouldn't have any control at all.


As far as I know, porn isn't being regulated anyway. Why not regulate it?

I have just convinced myself that pornography should be regulated! To be honest, I really hadn't thought much about it before.

It depends on what you mean by regulated. There are laws in place to protect every person against sexual acts, porn isn't above that. So in a way it is regulated.

I agree that more regulation would be a good thing, but not banning, because of what I stated above. :)

I never knew anyone who talked about his "massive boner" who actually HAD a massive boner. Maybe it's in the eye of the beholder.

This is one person who two user names -

Too funny!

Yes, masturbating must rot the mind.

So far I haven't seen anyone saying that pornography is itself bad or wrong. Unky posted a link about workers misusing government computers. Asking and Alty talk about nicotine and alcohol and raping children. Serious Student explains his impulse control issues.

Does erotic material cause any of these things? There were "no personal phone call" policies long before there was the internet or even phone sex companies. "Altarboys" has meant something other than religious for generations. Chronic masturbators have been around so long that hairy palms and going blind are jokes. Worldwide, the temples in Cambodia (Angor Wat) and the Kama Sutra are how many millenia old?

As far as banning things, Robert Heinlein said it best:
"If any government, any church, any group says 'This you may not see, this you may not read, this you may not know," the result is tyranny and oppression."

Unky, have you got enough material for your debate project yet?

Teens are being affected by it in a way that they want to perform sex as soon as possible, resulting in early motherhood.

This is one argument that keeps being brought up usually by those who forget human history and biology. They seem to have a tendency to believe that humans do not become aware of their bodies in a sexual sense until they are over the age of 18 years old and those that have an earlier awareness had to have been subjected to sexually related materials by someone else. They tend to deny that humans start exploring their own bodies as toddlers.

Children have a natural curiosity about touching and finding out what 'feels' good. As they mature the curiosity extends to other people. Potty training can be very interesting as the child learns that males and females have different genitalia that causes them to urinate in different ways resulting in urinals and toilets.

Children have to be taught the boundaries of what is permissible. Those boundaries change as the society/culture children grow up in changes. It wasn't too long ago (due to a shorter life expectancy) that it was common in most societies for females to be 'married off' not long after their menstrual cycle began (sometimes as young as 13 years of age with 18 years old being considered abnormal). They were considered adult women and capable of producing offspring to further the family and the community. Males were given a little longer to mature only because they were expected to learn a trade (even if it was taking over the family farm) before marrying.

Life expectancy increased. The age at which children become sexually aware didn't. Teenage pregnancy has always been around. As mentioned, it was (and in some places still is) considered normal. However, many societies set an arbitrary age at which youth become adults and ignore that biologically the reproductive and sexual drives are still there. Those new 'laws' resulted in a lot of young people still being driven by hormones and nature to reproduce or at least explore those 'sensations' with no legal outlet for those 'needs'.

As for teen pregnancy and society, 'shotgun' weddings or sending the girl off to 'visit' relatives or to a 'special' school was the way to handle the 'inconvenience'. Today, it is still frowned upon, however, it isn't hidden like it was a few decades ago and more teens are choosing to raise their children rather than for the child to become their 'sister/brother/cousin' or to put the child up for adoption.

So far I haven't seen anyone saying that pornography is itself bad or wrong. Unky posted a link about workers misusing government computers. Asking and Alty talk about nicotine and alcohol and raping children. Serious Student explains his impulse control issues.


Catsmine, I feel misrepresented by this statement. Just for the record, I did not use the phrase "raping children." And I barely mentioned child abuse. But I have talked about the denigration of women, which occurs in pornography. You didn't mention that I said that but that is my main objection to it. I feel that to characterize some men's rape fantasies, as well as milder forms of humiliation, as merely normal erotic sex is misleading.

Erotic is one thing. Pornography is rarely merely erotic.

Unky, this might be of interest to you.
BOLD - Violence Against Women on the Internet - (http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/vaw02/mod2-6b.htm)

Cats, I want to state that my comments in the beginning were about porn and my thoughts on the subject.

As most conversations go one thing leads to another, talking about rape fantasies etc.

It's all connected, sadly.

But, since I've obviously gone off track, I will leave the debate.

Good luck Unky, I hope you got what you were looking for. :)

For example:


In Maxwell and Check's 1992 study of 247 high school students described above, they found very high rates of what they called "rape supportive beliefs", that is, acceptance of rape myths and violence against women.

The boys who were the most frequent consumers of pornography and/or who reported learning a lot from it, were more accepting of rape supportive beliefs than their peers who were less frequent consumers and/or who said they had not learned as much from it.

I don't see how anyone could argue that reducing men's inhibitions to rape is a good thing.

Also, according the Department of Justice, although rape rates declined dramatically between 1980 and 2002, they have been rising again since 2002.

Bureau of Justice Statistics Rape Trends (http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/rape.htm)

I'm actually typing a post in a different window, but email notification after email notification is telling me to see xxx thread. I'll be answering soon, OK? :)

Yes, thanks for the input everyone, I really appreciate :) I hope that this will go on like this, or who knows, perhaps better?

Cats:

The article was about misconduct among governmental workers, who happen to be also watching porn on their working computers. I'll be using this as one of the consequences of porn

I have scribbles here and there. By next week, I'll be having all well planned and reviewed. Any more sources that might help me is most welcomed! :)

Cat:

Yes, I know that teens (female) were married early and it still is happening in India. Since 3/4 of the mauritian population consists of indians, I can say I quite know their culture. Also, when we have teenage pregnancy, the body of the teen is not yet prepared to bring the baby. The skin, the tissues of the womb are not 'elastic' enough to endure it (if I remember my biology class well). In some countries, it is some sort of humiliation. Sometimes, the parents put pressure on the teen to abort, and that is the thing that would definitely not be much beneficial to the teen.

Asking: I just had a glance at the sites, they seem very interesting indeed. Now I have to read them all! Thanks! :)

Alty: Yes, they are linked, one to the other, one chained to the other. :(

Alty, Asking, I did not mean to give offense, nor to misrepresent anyone's position, merely to highlight certain points.

My point was that pornography is blamed for many problems, like guns being blamed for violence. That's as silly as blaming Burpee for spots on your homegrown tomatoes.

Asking, that is the exact sort of evidence that was needed. A direct causal link between pornography and harm. Very, very good.

Alty, don't leave. There's still more to come and your input is invaluable.

As for denigrating women, Western society treads a very narrow ridge right in the middle of that one. We don't bind feet or insist on bhurkas, nor do we sell our daughters and orphans into prostitution, as a norm. Those things are denigrating. I do not think looking at and enjoying the beauty of the female form is, despite the views of Betty Freidan and the N.O.W.

[QUOTESerious Student
This message has been deleted by Fr_Chuck. Reason: under review, this is evil deeds
?[/QUOTE]


Do I get points for my spidey senses tingling? I KNEW it!

At any rate - my concern with pornography (and in this instance it is unfortunate that this post had to be pulled as Evildeeds/SeriousStudent made an argument that he "had" to use porn in order to masturbate in order to relieve tension) is the addictive nature, more so from the point of needing to see more and more in order to be "intrigued."

I have no problem with porn if the adults participating and watching are consentual. I think everyone feels the same.

I question whether the addiction "requires" more and more (or, for example, for people who like to watch rough sex, rougher and rougher sex as time goes on).

I don't really know.

There is nothing specifically wrong with your name, but it tends to give the image of someone not very serious. It also conjures up an image of someone who wants to be disruptive. Wouldn't you feel different about a questioner with a name like Serious Student, than Evil dead?

What 'spider-sense'? Lol. It should have been obvious it was me.

Make no mistake, I am a troll at heart, but I came here to contribute. Occasionally I might post something with an underlying trollish tone, but I always try and contribute when I post.

I don't want any arguments please. Now put back my previous, I think it was pretty lol but truthful.

Personally, I believe porn is degrading in reference to women. Have you ever seen a bukkake scene? It's really disgusting I always get turned off.

What is frightening however, this kind of aggression sex seems to 'hit the spot'. When you blow your load after watching an anal scene you know that it DID appeal to you somewhat. What I don't know is whether this an underlying psychological problem with people who end up watching porn regularly to relieve tension like I do.

I would love not to watch porn, but if I try and use my imagination it seems like a wasted effort when I blow my load. However when I do watch it, I'm ashamed but satisfied. I don't want to go through life like this until I have it for real.

Why is this happening to us?

Hello:

The idea that there even IS a gateway to anti social behavior, or that it can be identified, is preposterous. I reject the notion it on its face.

excon

you can TRY to make it sound innocent all you want



I understand watching porno can be very helpful if a man is having difficulty obtaining or maintaining an erection. https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/adult-sexuality/boyfriend-cant-get-erection-412125.html#post2065712

Apparently, the evidence is all there that watching pornography predisposes males --those most likely to watch it-- to imitate what they see and reduces inhibitions to rape and other aggressive behavior. This is particularly true in young males.

Here's another sample.


In a more recent anonymous survey of 247 Canadian junior high school students whose average age was 14 years, James Check and Kristin Maxwell (1992) report that 87% of the boys and 61% of the girls said they had viewed video-pornography. The average age at first exposure was just under 12 years.


33% of the boys versus only 2% of the girls reported watching pornography once a month or more often. As well, 29% of the boys versus 1% of the girls reported that pornography was the source that had provided them with the most useful information about sex (i.e. more than parents, school, friends, etc.). Finally, boys who were frequent consumers of pornography and/or reported learning a lot from pornography were also more likely to say that is was "OK" to hold a girl down and force her to have intercourse (abstract).

BOLD - Violence Against Women on the Internet - (http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/vaw02/mod2-6a.htm)

I think it is interesting that approximately a third of these boys got most of their information about sex by watching pornography, because another study showed that about one-third of male college students felt that it was sometimes okay to use force to get sex. That is, they were accepting of the idea of rape if they could justify it in their minds, which apparently they could.

And this:


"over 50% of various categories of paraphiliacs [sex offenders] had developed their deviant arousal patterns prior to age 18" (Einsiedel, 1986, p. 53). Einsiedel goes on to say that "it is clear that the age-of-first-exposure variable and the nature of that exposure needs to be examined more carefully. There is also evidence that the longer the duration of the paraphilia, the more significant the association with use of pornography"

My italics.

If in 1992 a third of 14-year-old boys were regular consumers of pornography, I wonder what the numbers are now?

Hmm, many thanks Asking! :) You're truly valuable here. I haven't read everything in the previous link you posted, yet. I go through them thoroughly tonight.

I can do this all day, but I shouldn't.

I have expanded abbreviations to make this more readable.


Victim reactions in aggressive erotic films as a factor in violence against women.
By Donnerstein, Edward; Berkowitz, Leonard
Journal of Personality and Social Psychology. Vol 41(4), Oct 1981, 710-724.

Abstract
Investigated whether the behavioral characteristics of the people in erotic films and the nature of the targets available for aggression afterward can affect subsequent aggression. In Experiment I, 80 male undergraduates were angered by a male or female confederate. They were then shown a neutral film or 1 of 3 erotic films. The erotic films differed in terms of their aggressive content (2 were aggressive and 1 was not) and the reactions of the female victim in the 2 aggressive films (positive vs negative). Subjects were then allowed to aggress against the confederate via electric shock. Results indicated that films had no effect on male targets, whereas both types of aggressive erotic films increased aggression toward the females.

In Experiment II, with 80 male subjects, the effects of the above films on nonangry viewers were investigated with only female confederates. Results indicate [again] that angered subjects were more aggressive toward the female after viewing either aggressive erotic film but that only the positive-outcome aggressive film increased aggression in nonangered subjects. The theoretical and applied aspects of aggressive and nonaggressive erotica are discussed. (40 ref) (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2009 APA, all rights reserved)

http://psycnet.apa.org/index.cfm?fa=buy.optionToBuy&id=1982-09803-001&CFID=3159034&CFTOKEN=47514459

Sorry, Asking I have a little difficulty to understand the second experiment's conclusion here.

Which one is supposed to be the positive-outcome aggressive film? :confused:

There were two kinds of erotic films with aggressive content. In "positive outcome" films, the woman basically liked being attacked or reacted positively. In the other, the woman resisted or cried or fought back. (Hard to say from this abstract. But basically the woman reacted negatively and that was a negative outcome.)

So (in Experiment I) if you show a mock rape to angry men, they will punish the woman they are mad at more than if you don't show them the mock rape. (If they are mad at a man, they will not punish HIM more after viewing a mock rape.)

In Experiment II, if you show a mock rape to non angry men, even they will punish a woman more--IF they viewed a mock rape where the woman responds positively (but NOT if she responds negatively to being assaulted).

So, to simplify, men viewing pornographic rape fantasies increases male aggression towards women. In men who are already angry with a woman, it doesn't matter how the woman in the film reacts. In men who are not angry with a woman, the mock aggression increases real aggression if the woman in the film responds positively to being assaulted but not if she reacts negatively.

In addition, other studies report that boys and men do try out what they watch.

Edit: Actually, I have no idea what the aggressive content here consisted of. I'm assuming some kind of mock rape. But it could be something milder for all I know.

Ah, that clears up the thing. I wonder whether a million thanks would ever be enough ;)

You are welcome!

I'm surprised that all these studies are rather old. I haven't been able to find anything recent. Did psychologists lose interest when it became so clear? Or did funding dry up for some reason? Or maybe they are using new jargon that I haven't been searching on.

The quality of the research with controls and such is better than I expected. I find it really persuasive myself...

Asking - this is really GREAT research.

My hat is off to you!

Judy,
Ahh. I'm blushing! Thanks!
Asking

Make no mistake, I am a troll at heart

I thought this was funny. My son likes to troll, sometimes elaborately... He and his brother just made a funny movie this week and posted it anonymously, just to troll someone.


but I came here to contribute. Occasionally I might post something with an underlying trollish tone, but I always try and contribute when I post.

We'll see. :)


I don't want any arguments please. Now put back my previous, I think it was pretty lol but truthful.

I think the post contributed, but it would be nice if you could tone down your descriptions of your sexual urges. We have all experienced the same or similar and don't need it explained with such urgency. :)


Personally, I believe porn is degrading in reference to women. Have you ever seen a bukkake scene? It's really disgusting I always get turned off.

I had to look this up on Wikipedia.


I don't want to go through life like this until I have it for real.

Why is this happening to us?

Well from what I've been reading, the more you watch porn, the less you will be able to respect the women in your life, and the harder it will become to see them as completely human like you, especially if you are angry.

It's all very well for people to say that fantasy is not a crime and no one should be judged for what they think about, but what we think about and how we feel about that is really who we are.

So IMO we have to think about who we want to be and make choices accordingly.

Asking, that's an astounding amount of research. I'm very impressed. Did you find any studies regarding positive outcome non-aggresive material?

The reason I ask is that I don't want to be seen as defending the extreme forms that are admittedly out there. People will push everything too far, just to find out how far too far is. The slasher softcore in the "Halloween," "Friday the 13th," and "Saw" series of movies sound like they would fit the study as easily as the "Learning the Ropes" bondage series.

Where does the line get drawn? Penetration? Genitalia? Pubic hair? Buttocks? Breasts? Shoulders? Ankles? All of these were at one point or another considered scandalous.

I'm just reading through the various arguments and responses here, and I'm with Asking.

I sincerely believe that porn objectifies men and women, but particularly women. People argue that it objectifies men as much as it does women, but the problem is that the power relationship is not equal.

Ultimately it diminishes women in the same way that sexual repression used to because it is often misogynist and controlling in its depiction of women - the women are stereotypes, the acts formulaic.

Because men are the main consumers of porn, what are we to do with these depictions of women that seem to be less than real human beings? Many men are able to see past this fantasy and use porn for the visual stimulation that it provides. This thread clearly provides proof of that.

But. And it's a big but. Porn is much more mainstream and available now. Sex is a commodity to be bought and sold and many more people are involved in the industry. Vanilla porn is becoming 'boring' and porn producers are looking for new things to stimulate and titillate. Where will it all end, and how will it affect men's expectations of women in real life relationships?

It may be that I am just an old feminist from way back, but these are some of the questions I ask myself. Even this old feminist has watched a range of porn - from consensual sexual acts to things that you don't really want to know about.

Alty talked about Germany where sexuality is much more open - I have to say that some of the most horrendous, degrading and disgusting porn I have ever seen was made in Germany. Is it because it is more out in the open that the filmmakers need to go to greater lengths to shock or titillate the viewer?

Food for thought.

Hmm, yup, good points Gemini. Thanks for your input! :)

I'll be looking forward to the answers :)

Yes, because of the internet, porn is so easily accessible. With the modern mobile phones, people send clips from one to the other in so little time!

Gemini, do let me point out that the plain old "boring" vanilla porn is primarily what I have been advocating, in case that wasn't clear.

As far as objectifying, doesn't the industry objectify the entire act in order to merchandise it? Power relationships may have made women the first to become objects, but I think the process has moved well past that stage. Or are Chippendale's dancers available for the book club(sorry, had to get my smart-aleck points in)?

A word of warning - if you don't like the leather flavor of German material, stay far away from the Czech.

I agree the industry is pushing the boundaries. In about ten more years we'll see the Texas Chainsaw Hookers and Freddie Krueger does Dallas.

Unky, here's a couple of links you should also consider
Obscenity and Pornography: Behavioral Aspects - Evidence Concerning Behavioral Effects (http://law.jrank.org/pages/1612/Obscenity-Pornography-Behavioral-Aspects-Evidence-concerning-behavioral-effects.html)

Nasty Porn, Friendly Porn, and Antisocial Behavior (http://www.humanismbyjoe.com/NastyPorn_FriendlyPorn.htm)

Thanks Cats! I'll have a look at them:)

Cats, I'm sorry, but the example of the Chippendale dancers doesn't wash. Just because some guys go to the book club in G strings doesn't make the power relationship between men and women equal. It's not.

Look at some of the really degrading porn. Who is the on receiving end of the degradation?

Even in the vanilla porn who is on the receiving end of the butt slaps, the multiple penetrations, the come shots etc?

I was trying, in my rather inarticulate way, to ask where is it all leading? And how is it affecting our attitudes in general towards sexuality and women?

I totally agree with Gemini. I have not been able to contribute more because of an, ahem, job obligation.
I am reading though!

Well, one thought I've been having. When humans (and other animals) learn, we do some of that by association. So, classically, dogs who heard a bell every time they got fed, "learned" to salivate every time they heard the bell, because they associated that with meal time.

In the same way, pornography that emphasizes the humiliation of women teaches both men and women to associate the mistreatment of women with orgasms and pleasure generally. As I pointed out before, studies have shown that men who view pornography lose their inhibition to the idea of rape and are more likely to express anger toward women. I'm guessing it feels good to view women that way, it's just a little closer to having an orgasm. Mistreating women is the equivalent of salivating before a meal. (Just my idea.)

None of the studies I cited were done on women, but I would be amazed if viewing such pornography did not affect women's view of themselves negatively as well, by similar association.

asking

Even in the vanilla porn who is on the receiving end of the butt slaps, the multiple penetrations, the come shots etc?


That is a very cogent point Gemini. These could also be used as examples of the industry pushing the boundaries, or how far they have already pushed them, but the "receiving end" remains the same.

Asking, unless you presuppose that all explicit sex depictions humiliate women, which I think is what Gemini is trying to say, you are generalizing from some very specific studies that don't support that premise.

All I am trying to say here, besides sparking debate to give Unky more material for his, is that explicit sex does not have to be rape or power exchange or sadomasochistic.

My favorite scene has a nice looking guy and girl and he proposes to her. She asks if he'll get better looking and he responds that he'll try. She accepts and they make love. Scintillating dialog, I know, but where's any degradation?

By the way, the Chippendale's thing was supposed to be facetious.

Asking, unless you presuppose that all explicit sex depictions humiliate women, which I think is what Gemini is trying to say, you are generalizing from some very specific studies that don't support that premise.

Hi cat, that's not what I was trying to say. I was actually saying that the industry is pushing the boundaries so that a lot of the sexual acts depicted are degrading to women. I don't have a problem with explicit, I have concerns about where the industry is heading and the trickle through effect to women in society.

Some of the best sex scenes and most erotic are explicit and they simply depict two people making love, having sex. I have to say that I prefer to watch explicit sex in movies rather than in porn these days - give me a French or Italian film any day!

I would not say that all explicit sex humiliates women!
And I would not say that all explicit depictions of sex humiliate women, either.
(I assume that's what you meant.) Your scene sounds pretty innocuous. :)

I would say that though that the sexual humiliation of women is the standard of the industry.

By analogy, color television is the standard of the industry. That's not to say that black and white couldn't still exist if someone wanted it. But it would be hard to find.

(And this is not meant to be a comparison between the value of b&w TV and non degrading depictions of sex. :))

In today's Chicago Sun-Times was an article, "Does porn empower women?" "Yes!" says the December Playboy cover girl. "Finally a woman gets paid more than a man for comparable work, she gets to set the rules, gets to be in a real teamwork with other women, as many key positions at Playboy are in fact held by women!"

One conclusion is that "being photographed naked is not, in fact, a job that moves women as a group closer to equality with men in terms of employment and earning opportunities. Instead, it reinforces the distinctly unfeminist and demonstrably false idea that the commodification of certain sexuality is a form of real power."

"Men, for instance, are favored for all sorts of powerful, high-paying jobs, and often respected more as they get older. Women can sometimes make a bunch of money by taking off their clothes when they're young and most attractive, but then they are less respected in that profession as they get older, no matter how much valuable information they've learned about posing naked by that point."

Read more at Does porn empower women? :: CHICAGO SUN-TIMES :: Nation (http://www.suntimes.com/news/nation/1870419,CST-EDT-open07a.article)

Wow, thanks WG! That's some piece of interesting information! :)

Thanks to all of you! :) I'll have to get through all of this again to have a better overview. Keep 'em coming! :)

I don't know how much more we've got for you, Unky. Asking and Gemini and I seem to have reached a consensus that the subject, in and of itself, is ok; but that the merchandisers have gone past the boundaries of good taste in marketing the perverse.

Thanks for the spirited debate, you guys. I hope you all know how much I respect your opinions.

Now for some porn...

It's OK. Well, if any points come up, and you wish to share, feel free to post! :)

I don't know how much more we've got for you, Unky. Asking and Gemini and I seem to have reached a consensus that the subject, in and of itself, is ok; but that the merchandisers have gone past the boundaries of good taste in marketing the perverse.
Thanks for the spirited debate, you guys. I hope you all know how much I respect your opinions.

Now for some porn....

Well, not exactly. I would have said, "but that merchandisers have poisoned their own product by selling the degradation of women and teaching millions of men and women to associate sexual arousal and orgasm with debasing and shaming women in every conceivable way simply for being women."

I think that captures our consensus a little better. ;)

Well, not exactly. I would have said, "but that merchandisers have poisoned their own product by selling the degradation of women and teaching millions of men and women to associate sexual arousal and orgasm with debasing and shaming women in every conceivable way simply for being women."

I think that captures our consensus a little better. ;)

Absolutely! Five greenies for that!

Unknown,
Here's a documentary about the Business of pornography. I'm not advocating anything in particular in it.

Hulu - Vanguard: Porn 2.0 - Watch the full episode now. (http://www.hulu.com/watch/106936/vanguard-porn-20)

Edit: Irony Alert. Because so many people steal porn, the industry is starting to lose money for the first time ever.
The irony is that Hulu (which is showing this documentary about porn) is giving away so much content that cable is getting ready to crack down and force Hulu to charge for content.

I cannot believe that I've been so busy that I completely missed this thread.

Need to read back before throwing my thoughts in, though.

We should have told you!

Porn is no fun without Synnen!!

Lol... although I was posting in the peeves thread, she didn't see the line in my sig :rolleyes: Anyway, gald you're here Synn, waiting for your part of comment ;)

I'm not in for a debate but here's my opinion, if it matters:

I like porn. I watch porn.

Porn is like gambling. You can enjoy it but if you get addicted it'll cost you.

Porn does ruin relationships if you let it. Most of the time women want to be the only woman the guy sees and so the guy sneaks around and watches porn. It's not exactly the porn that ruined the relationship it's the sneaking around part.

Well that's my two cents.

Porn is good. It's not bad and a destroyer of relationships unless you let it be.

Sarah

Thanks Muddy :) I really appreciate it.

Okay, have still only made it through part of reading everything, but wanted to put in my two pennies.

Porn is like EVERY other sex issue: it depends on the people involved and how they use it. The problems arise when couples are not open in their discussion about it, and then find out that they are on opposite ends of the spectrum in their opinions on it.

Personally, I think that as long as you and your partner are on the same page about it, or at least respect each others' opinions, there's not an issue.

HOWEVER--I will agree that porn--JUST like Disney movies--can and does put some unrealistic expectations out there for people to follow in relationships. Porn makes people feel badly if they aren't that freaky, or sexy, or aren't squirting or don't have a big enough penis or pretty vagina---or whatever! I think that SOME of that problem is that those people have self-esteem issues to begin with. Either way, porn tends to make people, specifically young men, see sex as being good ONLY if it's done a certain way, or they need their girl to be "freaky' (or the other side of it--they'll only date "vanilla" girls because you screw freaky girls, but you marry good girls), or they have gotten used to the perfection of porn stars/centerfolds.

Disney movies, by contrast, make people, especially young women, see marriage and love as being too easy, too perfect. Most Disney princesses marry the first guy they meet and live happily ever after with him, no fights or struggles between the two of them--it's always the two of them against the world. This is NO MORE unrealistic than porn is--yet we encourage our daughters to watch it!

My point is this: Women go into relationships expecting a fairy tale. Men go into relationships with an expectation of a certain kind of sexual progression. This is especially true of young men and women with little life experience to teach them otherwise. Part of the reason that it IS so damaging, though, has nothing to do with the media pushing all of this: it has mainly to do with the lack of a parental example of a good marriage/relationship. With so many comign from broken homes, and raised by single parents that date (and usually have no problem being open about the dating in front of their kids--good and bad)--where do kids have an example of a real, live relationship that is healthy and normal?

ANYTHING taken to extremes is bad--porn, fairy tales, smoking, drugs, alcohol, going to your mother's house every night instead of home to your spouse, whatever.

If porn is used as a tool to help a flagging relationship, or as a masturbatory tool for when your partner is not available--well, fine then. If porn is something you're looking at at work on a daily basis and you neglect your spouse for it---there's a problem.

Great Post, Synnnen.

I agree that Disney sets up weird expectations too. I also think Disney depicts women has helpless and relatively incompetent compared to men. These are not good for girls' development of competence.

I think there are plenty of strong competent female characters in Disney movies, they are not all helpless and weak. I hate it when the politically correct crowd complain about things such as ethnic stereotypes in old Disney movies. You can't judge a movie made in the 70s and earlier by today's standards and they were meant to be funny not intolerant.

I think there are plenty of strong competent female characters in Disney movies, they are not all helpless and weak. I hate it when the politically correct crowd complain about things such as ethnic stereotypes in old Disney movies. You can't judge a movie made in the 70s and earlier by today's standards and they were meant to be funny not intolerant.

I think there are plenty of strong and competent female characters in porn--you just have to choose which ones you watch.

JUST like in Disney movies.

I think there are plenty of strong competent female characters in Disney movies, they are not all helpless and weak. I hate it when the politically correct crowd complain about things such as ethnic stereotypes in old Disney movies. You can't judge a movie made in the 70s and earlier by today's standards and they were meant to be funny not intolerant.


Hey! I'm not a "politically correct crowd." I'm one person. And I am telling you what I think! I have watched a fair number of Disney movies, willingly and not. And they were not made in the 70s.

I hate it when crowds of politically correct conservatives defend canned culture. ;)

Thanks Synn, very precious opinion from you :)

Well, most cartoons are what they are because of fantasy, right? And I think porn, in one way or the other does the same thing, as stated before.

Ok, the debate occurred an hour ago, I posted this in the lounge's ship, here it is:


Anyway, got the debate an hour ago. My friend was the one who had to up up the arguments, and me the rebuttal. However, he lacked some material, I proposed to give him mine, since I got more arguments than required and I only needed to rebut.

He said that he was ok, that I need not give him mine. Then, he was short on ideas, too late to give him more info now :( Used half the time allocated.

Then rebuttal round, I was nervous about the fact that we had wasted a lot of time, that I forgot my rebuttal and got off completely. Fortunately, the opposing team did that too. Then, the summary time, my friend, well, sort of didn't say the required things and made my team lose the debate.

However, as I replied to many questions after the debate from the audience, and my opposing team member who did too, both of us were close to the 'best speaker'. She once or twice got 'black out' (of ideas) and that made me the best speaker, so yeah! :D

Many thanks to all those who supported me in that debate, I really would never have got that best speaker title if you were not there :)

We're all here to help people, Unky. It's especially gratifying when it's a friend.

I think it's not harmful for us to talk about porn,but I don't recommand it.

I think it's not harmful for us to talk about porn,but i don't recommand it.



And why is that? We aren't viewing it, of course. We're talking about it.

Well, from the debate, I've learned that education is the best weapon against porn. So, better talk about it :rolleyes: Of course, not talking of what happens in the clips, but about it, it's dangers, etc and that's what we are doing :)

Well, from the debate, I've learned that education is the best weapon against porn. So, better talk about it :rolleyes: Of course, not talking of what happens in the clips, but about it, it's dangers, etc and that's what we are doing :)Hello unky:

Well, I haven't followed the whole thread.. But, I HOPE we're not talking about the dangers of porn, because there ISN'T any.

I submit that pornography is very mainstream in this country, and MOST people consume it with NO difficulty. You know, of course, that it's on EVERY cable TV network in the country, and it's in EVERY hotel room in this country.

I DO submit, however, that there is a small segment of the population that can't handle porn, just like there's a small segment of society that can't handle liquor. That's probably around 10% of the people. Like liquor, we found that it doesn't work to ban something that MOST people do without any problems.

So, I don't buy into the evils of drinking, drugging, and pornography. They are only inanimate objects. In and of themselves, they aren't good or bad. People are good or bad.

excon

Sorry Exy, but I have got information about porn saying the opposite.

A study showed that 100% of people watching porn were affected.

Whether it is a long term effect of not, that is what depends on the individual (that's my view)

Sorry Exy, but I have got information about porn saying the opposite.

A study showed that 100% of people watching porn were affected.

Whether it is a long term effect of not, that is what depends on the individual (that's my view)



Do you have a site for this? I wonder what the study meant by "affected." Excited? Sickened? A little of both? "Affected" seems to be a very broad based word.

So, I don't buy into the evils of drinking, drugging, and pornography. They are only inanimate objects. In and of themselves, they aren't good or bad. People are good or bad.
Couldn't agree more.

This trails off into people not being able to take responsibility for their own decisions. I'm with excon on this, although there may be statistical evidence, I just don't believe it.

Hmm, OK, look at post 114. That should be on page 11.

It's concerning aggressivity towards female, positive outcome and negative outcome.

A study showed that 100% of people watching porn were affected. Hello again, unky:

Yeah... When I watch porn, I'm affected... Damnit!

But I, like Judy, wonder if it's so bad and it's been PROVEN to be so bad, why is it absolutely everywhere, and why isn't your government doing something about it?

excon

Well, my opinion is that it makes people feel uncomfortable to talk about sex, people find pleasure in watching them, unconscious of how it affects them...

Don't take it too seriously, it is a study, based on some people of a certain age, not all people of the Earth! :eek:

There might be some out there not affected by it at all. Who knows?

Results indicated that films had no effect on male targets, whereas both types of aggressive erotic films increased aggression toward the females. Hello again, unky:

This is one study. There are others... But, I don't buy it in any case...

I WILL submit that BAD porn makes for a lot of unsatisfied ladies out there... But, that's a sexual thing, not an aggression thing. There is GOOD porn, though, where people actually kiss.

excon

Well, for me, good or bad, no thanks, at least that's how I think right now. We never know what might happen, but I don't think that will change.

I do agree though that there are unsatisfied ladies out there :)

There's no shortage of such studies. But nobody talks about them much.

Here's another one that shows that men who pressure women to watch and mimic violent pornographic scenes are more violent towards the women.

Violent pornography and abuse of women: theory to ... [Violence Vict. 1998] - PubMed result (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?db=pubmed&uid=10328441&cmd=showdetailview)


Violence Vict. 1998 Winter;13(4):319-32.

Violent pornography and abuse of women: theory to practice.
Cramer E, McFarlane J, Parker B, Soeken K, Silva C, Reel S.

Texas Woman's University 77030, USA.

To examine violent pornography use and associated violence against women, an ethnically stratified sample of 198 abused women were asked about their partners' use of pornographic materials, and if they had been asked or forced to look at, act out, or pose for pornographic scenes or pictures. Overall, 40.9% of the women reported the abuser used pornographic material, with the proportion significantly higher for Whites (58.7%), compared to Blacks (27.1%) or Hispanics (38.5%). When groups were formed according to the abuser's use of pornography and associated involvement of the woman, violence scores as measured on the Index of Spouse Abuse, Danger Assessment, and Severity of Violence Against Women scales were significantly higher (p = <.001) for women reporting the abuser requested or forced her to look at, act out, or pose for pornographic scenes. Severity of violence was not related simply to whether the abused used pornography. This analysis is a beginning step toward understanding how pornography influences woman abuse.

It's understandable that people who regularly use pornography would not want to believe this. No one wants to think they are contributing to the injury of others. We all want to think we are nice.

This study focuses on violent pornography but even non violent pornography that involves humiliation of women affects people.

Here's another one that shows that men who pressure women to watch and mimic violent pornographic scenes are more violent towards the women.Hello again, a:

I'm not talking about VIOLENCE. I'm talking about two people making love. If somebody is interested in VIOLENT porn, maybe there's something abnormal about them in the first place.

excon

Hi Ex,
I think a lot of porn is violent. Some of the violence is implicit as in rape fantasies. And then there is just the attitude that women are there to please and often to be humiliated.

Two people making love is two people making love. That's real life. Porn is not real life. Every media depiction of anything -- whether cooking, politics, art, or sex -- has a point of view. In the case of porn, that point of view is overwhelmingly male and also overwhelmingly hostile to women. I'm not saying there are no exceptions.

I want to say again that I did not really know what I thought about this until I started reading for Unknown's thread.

I think a lot of porn is violent. Hello again, a:

I don't disagree... And, I don't disagree about your conclusions regarding violent porn... I'm only suggesting that not ALL porn is violent. Ergo, porn doesn't cause the malady's you describe - BAD/VIOLENT porn does.

excon

I'd just like to point out that the porn industry is really taking a hit monetarily, because of the free porn on the internet.

And nearly every man I talk to about this prefers the "amateur" porn--with real people having real sex--over the fake glamorized stuff.

I'd just like to point out that the porn industry is really taking a hit monetarily, because of the free porn on the internet.Hi, Synn:

Free Porn featuring full length dvds and videos only at Sex Tube (http://www.sextube.com/)

excon

Excon, darling...

While I'm okay with porn, and will occasionally watch it with the hubby... I'm more of an erotica sort of girl

Excon, darling...

While I'm okay with porn, and will occasionally watch it with the hubby....I'm more of an erotica sort of girlHello again, Synn:

It wasn't for you. It was for the masses.

excon

Well, from the debate, I've learned that education is the best weapon against porn. So, better talk about it :rolleyes: Of course, not talking of what happens in the clips, but about it, it's dangers, etc and that's what we are doing :)

:)Sorry for my misunderstanding...

No worries Shihouzhuge :)

And Synn, perhaps you all the men you meet who watch porn are the 'sensible' ones, not the ones who would prefer the 'fake glamourized stuff' ;)

Or maybe if women were more discriminating and CHOSE sensible men, and not the masses who prefer the "fake, glamorized stuff", then those men would ONLY get laid in their imaginations, and the whole thing would stop.

As if.

And Excon--you owe me a present then, if that wasn't for me.

The sad thing is that their imagination does not stop there, but they want to make it a reality, hence rapes, or they do their own porn film?

Some people's fantasies INCLUDE making porn.

Hell, I've got a video of myself somewhere---it was HOT to make it. Never published, but it was fun to do.

Rape isn't about sex. Rape is about power. Personally, I think the right answer for a punishment for rapists is not to cut their balls off---but to put them in a collar and slave clothes for the rest of their lives, to be used by anyone who wants to. Take away ANY chance of power they might have.

Honestly--if you need a SPECIFIC stimulation to get off, then you either need to find someone who is GGG and has the same fetish---or you DESERVE to be alone.

What I don't understand isn't the fact that so many people enjoy porn---it's why people who cannot stand it stay with people who really enjoy it. It's like staying with someone who HAS to have a drink when they get home from work, to me. Either you're on the same page, or get out of the relationship, but for heaven's sake don't REWARD the person for the behaviour you don't like by sticking around and still being there when THEY want you!

Good point...

I guess the answer to this one is fear. They fear that they'll lose the one they 'love'. And fear is the consequence of lack of education...