Thanking you for taking the time in advance to read my situation.

I am 32 and she is 25, we work-live-travel together... a

We met online through a mutual friend's Facebook account. Ever since I saw her picture the first time I KNEW this was the girl I was going to marry(and still feel that way). When we met she had been single for a year and was not quite ready to start dating again. We took it real slow... to the point she thought I was gay for not making a move too soon. My reasoning had been to allow things to progress naturally and not pressure her as to not frighten her away.

Our personalities are similar at the heart of it but differ as they meet the outside world. We are both highly educated and true realists. Myself I am more of a critical thinker (engineer) and I tend to see things in black and white. When problems arise I always look for the root and try to solve it. I tend to be the solid rock for people to lean on, always solving everyone's problems whether relationship or financial. Now my problem is that my best friend and girlfriend are the same. We always talked about everything together as best friends and now I can't talk to her about this as best friend because I have to play the boyfriend role.

On her part she is an extremely beautiful person inside and out. She is very artistic, expressive and creative which I am not and which I admire and look up to. She is a fiercely independent woman. When I met her that really attracted me to her like no one before her. Myself confidence has always been high so when we met I had no problems with that. As the relationship progressed and I became attached her independence began to hurt as she needed much personal space and I just wanted to be closer; holding her hand and kissing her constantly... perhaps to the point she was suffocated. She said that I too often show affection, thus don’t give her the time to do it herself at her own rate.
About a year ago she finished school and also held a 40hr/wk job. She took the last year off and began working with me as well as travelling extensively with me. About a month ago she began having strong nervous reactions to the fact that she believes she lost herself in the past year and has just tagged along my life. She feels like a kept woman as I own the building we live in and basically everything in our lives is expensed or I pay for. She recently took over a loft in the building and started making it a creative studio to work on her clothing line, blog. Im hoping that this space will give her the independence she needs so badly and put her on the track to being herself again.

3 Days ago during her time of the month she had a total breakdown saying that as mentioned above she lost herself, she is unsure of her relationship, she is unsure of if I am right for her. It is hard for me to deal with the fact that she says she loves me but that she needs so much time to ``re-find herself and bring things back to where they were before``.

I know she truly loves me with all her heart but I always think she is not IN LOVE with me. I am not particularly romantic by nature but I am learning and willing to make the efforts to give her what she needs. I do however do many little things out of the blue, help her with whatever I can and always encourage her to push herself and accomplish whatever is at hand. Another issue we have is that in the intimacy department we have our own preferred speeds of doing things (slow-fast) which makes her feel used afterwards. She strongly disagrees with marriage seeing it as a legal more than emotional bond. She would be comfortable having kids (when the time is right.. shes only 25) or adopting and living together unmarried. Marriage for me is not important as long as I know we will always be together.

The first day of this I couldn’t eat, my head was a total mess and I felt ill all day. Day two (yesterday) was better for me but that was because I was slowly coming to terms we were going to break up and I started thinking about moving on (even though she never said that). Tonight I'm meeting an old friend who at the beginning of this relationship really set my mind clear about this type of women.

Ill keep you guys posted with as many updates as are worth posting.

Thank you for taking the time to try and fix the rest of my life—

Alex-

try my relationship break up guide below asap.

If she is the type that needs space and plenty of it, give it to her. Just back away to a safe distance.

Just give her the space she needs and be patient and keep yourself busy. It never does a man any good to become dependent of any woman. Once you do, you're a dead man! She wants space so let her have it and be glad that you are a good man and you did the best you can. Karma will be around soon for her. Good job on your part and continue being a good man. Everyone will respect that. Take care of yourself. You are better than this.

Update #1.

Its 730 am here and her phone juts BEEPED loudly from an email received. I was hoping to get some extra zeez today but alas not; this is the time I usually wake up for work and there is no way I can fall back asleep.

Last night you might remember I met up with an old friend. We spent from 730 till 1230 chatting over a healthy dinner (she's a personnal trainer with a killer 6pack). It was nice seeing her and I felt bad that I only called her now after 2 years of no contact to help me through this... ill definitely make it up to her.
- showed her the above huge post to fill her in. She was most stuck on the part about my GF loving me with all herself but not being able to answer the question if she was in love with me.
Do I really want to be with someone like that? No.. but its hard to just walk away when things were so good just weeks ago.
I have always been a big fan of pre-emptive breakups strongly believing that the pain is much less when you are the breaker than breakee.
My GF has never mentioned breaking up but for some reason my mind flies straight to that situation. WHY??
As I give her the space she needs I feel myself putting up a firewall to distance myself emotionally from her. It makes me feel better but slowly putting thoughts in my head that She hurts you She doesn't deserve you She should be better with you. I can't help these though, they might be untrue but they ease the pain.
Last night she spent with an girlfriend whom I know well. We got home about the same time and she was OK, talkative... excited about her new blog layout that a web designer just submitted her and we went right to bed. She did mention that the previous night of 3am relationship talk really messed her up, made her take a few steps back but that this evening was a good forward push.
Today I have no plans to occupy myself with and it worries me. Ill just start going back to Facebook and seeing who's free for coffee.
Yesterday she asked me on a 'date' tonight. I said I had plans with a friend and could not (He has yet to confirm)... I want to go so badly but I know she should see her friend(same as last night) and go party it up.
Early this week we met a tenant that said he had friends in from :olland and we did tell them we were goint to take them out tonight... I hate not keeping my word.

What do I do?
1- go on a date with her
2-let her see her friend by herself
3-go with her, her friend(female), and the three dutch guys out on the town?

I just want to make the right call...
-input appreciated.
Thanks to all.

You seem to be a great guy,thoughtful,mature and very grounded.That will always help you out in messy situations as this.

I am seeing your situation this way : There's a great girl in your life and you both are generally happy together.Being the more sensitive,balanced and practical person you complement your girlfriend who's independent yet unsure,a bit confused and complex.

Talking,a lot of it,with the right things said calmly and respectfully,at the right time can easily save this situation since you both are willing to work things out.She didn't mention a break-up but you somehow want to save yourself a lot of apprehension and pain by breaking it off with her since you want to be in control.

Why take such a decision without going the whole way and trying to work things out first?Of course,that doesn't mean dragging the thing to the point where it becomes bitter.Just means,back off a lot to exactly that point where she's able to get a grip,a proper perspective and miss you a lot.Stop being there for her so much.But do all this in a manner which doesn't add to the confusion as in if you go out with other people(esp women),you of course don't need to justify that to her but keep her informed subtly so that she doesn't think you've started meeting other women behind her back.

You have that right mix of confidence and sensitivity so I think you can pull off being busy and happy with your own life along with being in a relationship.Keep talking to each other by giving each other a lot of space.

As for your present question,I think be spontaneous and decide what YOU WANT TO DO rather than what YOU SHOULD DO.Whatever you do,just remember that till you officially break up,you are still in a relationship with a woman who might say she wants to back off and all that but trust me when I say that she would still want to know if you go out with a woman(yes,we are like that,no matter what we do is OK with us but the moment the love of our lives does something we don't know/approve of,it becomes an issue with us!).

Carry on the way you are doing.You're doing a good job.

I think Starry has it right, just make some adjustments, and be considerate, and enjoy your life, and each other. You can do both. You also can just pay attention, but say nothing without thought. I think she wants you to let her be independent. I would, until things didn't sit right, but being needy for her attention, and always having insecurities will understandably, turn her off.

Yesterday we woke up together and had a talk, the vibe was good... felt almost normal.
Apparently she has issue with the tone I speak to her in. This comes from me being a construction company VP... I deal with really rough around the edges guys that require a certain tone and attitude to get them to do the work properly. I believe that I have unfortunately brought that attitude and tone home. Through my actions and in my head I place her on the highest of pedestals and it hurt so bad that my words made her feel differently. I'd like to know if any of you have any tips on how I can separate my work personality from my personal one.

I ended update 1 with a dilemma I had. Well last night we did our own things, I went to see UFC with friends and she had dinner with a girlfriend. We both had a good time. That somehow brought up an insecurity of how come she can have fun with her friends and not with me. I know it's a ridiculous thought but I have been having a lot of those lately.

Today was good, we spent some quality time together in the morning. It felt so good holding her that I trembled for a moment. The day went well, had a birthday party and now I'm waiting for a movie to start with a friend and she's doing blog postings with one of her friends.

It feels like things are slowly moving back towards normality. As she gave me more attention and affection these past 2days I am afraid ill want more and more, smothering her again and pushing her further away.

Man I wish I could stop thinking so much and get these stupid bad thoughts out of my head.

Alex, I get the feeling that you love this woman so much that maybe you have been holding on to her a bit too tightly.

From what you have written, you don't really know how to be in a relaxed committed relationship. That as the 'honeymoon' phase relaxes into a stable, familiar, comfortable phase, you have a tendency to think it's over and walk away or (at least with this woman) hold on tighter to keep her from trying to leave. Holding on tighter can have the opposite effect causing her to feel smothered and lost. You mean well, but I think you are already seeing the benefit of both of you having some personal time with friends.

Now for the tone issue, since she is the one who is sensitive to the tone, ask her to give you a gentle reminder when you start sounding like a boss instead of a lover. It can be as simple as saying 'whoa' or maybe 'tone'.

I can related to you, I am myself an engineer and I also see things in practical ways. The difference is that I'm more rational, I'll never make assumption when seeing a girl on Facebook for the first time, especially saying she is going to be with me for the rest of my life.

My suggestion is take things slow and try a new activity, or volunteer in something it will take your mind off her.

Man I wish I could stop thinking so much and get these stupid bad thoughts outta my head.

Alex,you have answered your own question!No wonder you're so smart!You are getting too bogged down at the slightest of the issues.This is quite natural since you are so obviously in love with your girl-friend,which is causing you to feel insecure about thoughts of her leaving you,which,in turn is causing you to push her away.

Ok,why don't I try and use your language:p

Too serious and in love with girl-friend--insecurity--clinging and smothering her--pushing her away--she has doubts about her independence with you in her life--she wants space--you think she might want to break-up--you think of breaking up before she does--confusion,sorrow,frustration.

Solution:

Backing off the moment you feel "too much in love.So much in love that you are blinded by it".Take a deep breath,physically move out of the same room she is in/if you are in her vicinity.Work out,let some steam off,do anything to take your mind off and re-focus.Get a grip.She's wonderful,amazing and you want this to work with her.But its not the end of the world.You have a great life going for you as well.Why not enjoy that and then when it feels right to go back to her,do it.You will realise the spark's back again and moreover you are not so scared of her leaving you because of the other activities that you have done and can always do,with or without her.

I do this a lot,in fact have made it a habit,in order to deal with my insecurity issues that always spoil a good relationship.I have learnt to not think and act impulsively and back off from the situation that's causing me all the worry and hurt.Trust me,it gives me perspective and allows me to think rationally.

Love is about liberation and feeling light and happy and free.Why ruin things when all you need to do is tweak a few things here and there and make some adjustments?

I get the impression that you have never dealt with these emotions before.

Perhaps you are presuming that she needs more space because of you, when it really has nothing to do with you at all. She is an independent person, and whether with you or anybody else, she is that person. Don't take it so personally.

Interrupting that need she has, makes you appear needy, and insecure. You are preparing for a breakup, but maybe that is not something she is planning at all.

Have you asked her?

It is okay to be concerned, apprehensive, unsure of how to act and feel. She is not a mind reader, and neither are you. With putting so much effort into figuring it all out, you've put yourself in an impossible position. It may not be as complicated as you think.

Make a date with her. Clear your busy schedule maybe even for a weekend away. Then start talking. Try to strip away some of the role(s) you think you should be playing, and open up. Be honest. What are your expectations, fears, concerns. What is it about you that can improve, and how can she help you understand how she feels.

I get the feeling that she is holding back, not wishing to upset the apple cart, but at the same time I don't get the impression that she wouldn't be willing to really open up too, and maybe just a simple act of spending time together and really talking things through, will move you both in the right direction.

Update #3

It has been a few days since I filled you guys in on what's been going on. Things were feeling back to normal for a while but it seems that the deeper I dig for answers the bigger the can of worm gets.

Last night I had family in from abroad and we were on the way to see them. She gets a text from her friend that Friday they are all getting together for a rock N roll dress up party. One of them is married and I get along with the husband very well. I asked if he was going and she was not sure, so I got a bit offended that he might be there but not me.
Then I hear Thursday she is seeing another friend of hers for drinks after work. Im slowly starting to get a picture that her in her life right now I am no longer a priority. Can I stay here in second class while she's in first with her life and her friends? Is this long crappy flight going to pay off when we reach our ultimate destination?


A few minutes afterwards I pulled over to talk a bit about stuff in general.

I found out the following:
She wanted her space because apparently throughout the whole relationship she gave her "all" to me and put me first in any situation. Even in arguments she thought about how I felt first and her second. I told her this was normal and that I did the same for her. She informed me that this was over an from now on she would behave in such ways that put herself and her needs first. I was offended by this as I feel left out in the cold, and back in a time where things were different.

As I previously mentioned I have in the past spoken inappropriately to her. There are two notable incidents where I called her two offensive words. My day to day behavior, tone and thoughtfulness are all on the up and up( I wish she realized it more). I always strive to put her needs and interests first not caring if I go without in order for her to have. She told me that during arguments she feels that I put her down even lower and "step all over her". I feel that all I want in an argument is to get my point across, make sure she sees it, make sure I see her point and move on. This point is something we spoke about a while back and resolved it by promising to take a time out when an argument happens so we may both cool off and come back level headed. About two weeks ago she did something to shatter my trust, she spoke to a guy that she promised she would not. I was furious at that but kept my complete cool, talked to her politely during the evening and the situation is behind us.

I still can't swallow the face that I asked her if she thought we were going to end up together after all of this is over. She said that the bad talking in fights and the construction attitude I sometimes brought home was a HUGE issue and she can't seem to let it go. She feels like she was too lenient and let a lot of stuff slide. Now she realizes that and is furious at herself for being like that. I feel all the good that was is being looked over for a few bad episodes.
How can that be the right way of looking at things?
Why can't she just listen to her heart who does love me and get through the issues and work them out. I am not a bad person.


As always I really take the time to understand and as best apply all your comments.

Thanks

This seems to be a more complex, but from what I gather you are still together. The situation sums up like this: She felt she always put you in priority but now she wants to be first in her list of priorities.

I can only say, give her a bit of space a day or two and communication is the key for your relationship. Try to be calm every time you talk to her.

I sense some red flags there. Her attitude that she puts herself first over you means that she started to DISRESPECT you. Before, she was putting you first because she had respect for you and she wouldn't want her actions or words to hurt you.

I can tell you from experience that you need to stand strong! Give her space and don't act or be NEEDY. She will lose even more respect for you if you do this. Let her be and let her miss you. Perhaps she will gain some respect back for you and put you in more of a priority. I know it hurts, but this is what you should do.

Pay attention to what she is saying guy, and see things through her eyes, and not your own insecurities. Its not about her putting you second, its about her coming first. She likes to do other things besides meeting your needs. That's not a put down, but her cry to have a life that she enjoys without you. That makes her happy, and you get the benefits of having a happy partner. You have to do the same, and make yourself happy in what YOU do, so your happy, and she gets the benefit of a happy partner (with a calm soothing voice, and a sweet temper when your around her). She will love you for it.

I sense some red flags there. Her attitude that she puts herself first over you means that she started to DISRESPECT you. Before, she was putting you first because she had respect for you and she wouldn't want her actions or words to hurt you.

I can tell you from experience that you need to stand strong! Give her space and don't act or be NEEDY. She will lose even more respect for you if you do this. Let her be and let her miss you. Perhaps she will gain some respect back for you and put you in more of a priority. I know it hurts, but this is what you should do.

I don't think that she disrespects him just because she found that she was losing respect for herself and is trying to regain it.

As someone who has a tendency to want to make everything right for everyone else at my own expense (mentally, emotionally, and physically), I can tell you that after a while you start to hate yourself for being wimpy and a doormat. It is very easy to lose yourself in a relationship as is shown all over this board. Luckily, I have a husband who understands that I will damage myself if I don't care of my needs first sometimes. He gives me the support I need to tell myself 'stop, do something for me.'

Both people need to be strong in his/her individual self to be able to work together to build a strong relationship. Without 'you' and 'me' there is no 'we'.

Alex, you want to place her first. She has been placing you first. You both need to back up so that there is room for you to grow as individuals in the relationship. Think about planting trees to build a windbreak. You don't put the saplings right up against each other. They won't grow properly. They need their own space to grow strong and to create and effective windbreak.

Update #

Hello forum:

Its been a while since I wrote you all. I really felt things were getting better between us. I see now that its because for me things were not so bad and it didn't take much positive reinforcement from her but for her things were so bad that the few good days that we had were not so impressive.

Tonight on the way home from a family dinner we had a talk. I was very calm, sensitive and open. Her mood was very defensive and not too forward with information. She told me she felt suffocated by everything around her and she needed to get away. Her personality is the type that when too many things happen she can't deal with them and her first instinct is flight. This happened a long time ago in our relationship and after a little time she got her head back and was good as new.
You see.. I know this about her but my natural instinct is to be there for her to lean on and help her through it.
I will be signing us up for couples therapy tomorrow. I am a firm believer of always hiring qualified trained professionals with whatever you need done right. I don't know if it will work but I see it as another route worth exploring; along with giving her the total space she needs.
I feel I already lost her last week when everything hit the fan. I know I will hurt but believe the majority of sadness is over. Seeing her hurt me so badly(info to come) has really put up an inferno of a firewall when it comes to her.
I still want to spend the rest of my life with her but if she doesn't... I don't want someone like that to be with me no matter how much I love and respect her.
As you know I have brought "work talk and attitude" home and for that I am ashamed of myself and wish more than anything in the world I could take back. We recently had two hue fights because of her actions.
You see about two months ago this guy moved into the buuilding. He's not handsome or anything special but an actual heroin and coke user and former junkie. Since the first time I met him I knew there was something with this guy. I told her about it but she paid no attention to me. They started being friends, hanging out on the roof and talking. I know she was not attracted to him but she likes hanging out with "characters" or people with very different lifestyles and experiences than her own.
This friendship grew till he invited her to a sporting event after which he professed his love and lust to her. I found out about it that night by accident and it felt like she cheated on me although I knew she would never do such a thing. From then I forbid her to see this guy. We went away to Hawaii for a week, talked and seemed to be on the right track to get back on our feet as a couple. A few days after we returned I found out he contacted her and they met up for coffee. I was really hurt and felt the utmost betrayal from her. But I stayed calm and talked to her gently, politely and explained my position. She realized that she was unknowingly leading this guy on as all she wanted was friendship but all he wanted was all of her. She say by herself the wrong that seeing this guy was doing to her, us and him(who mistreated his GF because he thought he was going to get my GF) We got back to working out our issues and a few days ago I found out that this week she went for coffee twice with him. She promised on her mothers life the first time that she would never lie to me again and in one week she broke that strong promise twice. She said she liked his input and advice...
What advice can she possible get from a guy that wants to steal her and sleep with her... how is that fair to me... to us?
A large part of the things in her head are because of the fights we had about her seeing him behind my back. She told me she could not tell me because I would get mad. Possibly... but no where to the extent that I got hurt by her doing it behind my back.
Tonight she left to sleep at her moms house for a few days. It sucks but I do know she needs it and whether she comes back or not neither of us know.
She told me that her heart says she loves me but her mind is not sure anymore because of some things I said and she feels like I don't respect her. On an almost daily schedule I put her up; by motivating her to start her business, telling her how great and unique she is and trying to unleash her huge potential on a personal and professional level.
I will live my life like she was not in it, though we are still "together". If she calls.. good. If not then it was not meant to be. I do know she will keep in touch with me and I don't know...

What should I do?
Should I see her for coffee if she asks?
Go to dinners?
Play it like we first started dating... be cool and a bit distant not showing too much interest.

My ex started going out behind my back... after the third time, I did it back for her own medicine and she dumped me. Go figure... I personally think this relationship is over. She is trying to put the blame on you. It's not your fault. You have only been trying to help her. She cannot be trusted either. Be done with her for being so selfish and damaging the relationship. You can do better. I'm sorry. She cannot be trusted. No trust, no relationship. Believe me!

Update #

Hello forum:

Its been a while since I wrote you all. I really felt things were getting better between us. I see now that its because for me things were not so bad and it didn't take much positive reinforcement from her but for her things were so bad that the few good days that we had were not so impressive.

Tonight on the way home from a family dinner we had a talk. I was very calm, sensitive and open. Her mood was very defensive and not too forward with information. She told me she felt suffocated by everything around her and she needed to get away. Her personality is the type that when too many things happen she can't deal with them and her first instinct is flight. This happened a long time ago in our relationship and after a little time she got her head back and was good as new.
You see.. I know this about her but my natural instinct is to be there for her to lean on and help her through it.
I will be signing us up for couples therapy tomorrow. I am a firm believer of always hiring qualified trained professionals with whatever you need done right. I don't know if it will work but I see it as another route worth exploring; along with giving her the total space she needs.
I feel I already lost her last week when everything hit the fan. I know I will hurt but believe the majority of sadness is over. Seeing her hurt me so badly(info to come) has really put up an inferno of a firewall when it comes to her.
I still want to spend the rest of my life with her but if she doesn't.... I don't want someone like that to be with me no matter how much I love and respect her.
As you know I have brought "work talk and attitude" home and for that I am ashamed of myself and wish more than anything in the world I could take back. We recently had two hue fights because of her actions.
You see about two months ago this guy moved into the buuilding. He's not handsome or anything special but an actual heroin and coke user and former junkie. Since the first time I met him I knew there was something with this guy. I told her about it but she paid no attention to me. They started being friends, hanging out on the roof and talking. I know she was not attracted to him but she likes hanging out with "characters" or people with very different lifestyles and experiences than her own.
This friendship grew till he invited her to a sporting event after which he professed his love and lust to her. I found out about it that night by accident and it felt like she cheated on me although I knew she would never do such a thing. From then I forbid her to see this guy. We went away to hawaii for a week, talked and seemed to be on the right track to get back on our feet as a couple. A few days after we returned I found out he contacted her and they met up for coffee. I was really hurt and felt the utmost betrayal from her. But I stayed calm and talked to her gently, politely and explained my position. She realized that she was unknowingly leading this guy on as all she wanted was friendship but all he wanted was all of her. She say by herself the wrong that seeing this guy was doing to her, us and him(who mistreated his GF because he thought he was going to get my GF) We got back to working out our issues and a few days ago I found out that this week she went for coffee twice with him. She promised on her mothers life the first time that she would never lie to me again and in one week she broke that strong promise twice. She said she liked his input and advice....
What advice can she possible get from a guy that wants to steal her and sleep with her...how is that fair to me....to us??
A large part of the things in her head are because of the fights we had about her seeing him behind my back. She told me she could not tell me because I would get mad. Possibly....but no where to the extent that I got hurt by her doing it behind my back.
Tonight she left to sleep at her moms house for a few days. It sucks but I do know she needs it and whether she comes back or not neither of us know.
She told me that her heart says she loves me but her mind is not sure anymore because of some things I said and she feels like I don't respect her. On an almost daily schedule I put her up; by motivating her to start her business, telling her how great and unique she is and trying to unleash her huge potential on a personal and professional level.
I will live my life like she was not in it, though we are still "together". If she calls..good. If not then it was not meant to be. I do know she will keep in touch with me and I don't know....

What should I do?
Should I see her for coffee if she asks?
Go to dinners?
Play it like we first started dating...be cool and a bit distant not showing too much intrest.
Alex,I have been thinking,after reading your latest posts,she doesn't really feel she's into this relationship with you anymore.

I can sense you are being extra sensitive,caring and patient,almost as if you are on your toes all the time,trying to do all the talking,listening,smoothening the rough edges,basically,all the work in the relationship only because you are believing everything she's saying.Yes,she does sound to be an extremely independent and strong personality,but its also true that many such character types also have very fulfilling,stable relationships where they are happy with their partners.Your partner doesn't act or feel she's happy and she feels its all your fault.Which makes you feel its all your fault as well.Which is why you are changing yourself,trying to please her.

Alex,you might not like to hear this but constantly cribbing about feeling stifled and suffocated,going out and having fun times with other men are all signals she actually's considering wanting out from this relationship.Why and for what reason is really something only she knows and can tell.She may be putting the blame on you but I have a feeling it goes deeper than that.Maybe she finds other personality types more suited to her,maybe she would like to really see what other fish are in the sea,maybe she finds your constant analysis of your relationship and her attitude frustrating,who knows.

My suggestion is,in such scenarios where a relationship's squarely banking on one individual,its better to stop doing all the work and analysing and rationalising.Just stop figuring her and her attitude,your relationship out.Just stop being sensitive and caring so much.Whether you want to break up or go one a break,or just stop communicating,is your choice.But just stop carrying the burden of the relationship.

Start spending some time on your own,go out with friends(yes,women too,if you want,since in an earlier post I had suggested doing that would be improper but now that she's going out with other men,you totally can do the same),start doing things for yourself,say what's on your mind,she likes it or not,generate an idea that you are also focusing on your needs and thinking a lot about what makes YOU,as a person happy.

And start believing you are doing all this for yourself and not to get her back.Be this way for a few weeks,see if the distance and "feeling good about yourself" factor brings back the spark or not.If the answer is still no,then just break up and move on.

Birthday Update

Its been two or three nights since she's been staying with her parents. She writes me messages but I try being brief with replies wanting to give her the space she needed. She offered to go to lunch for my birthday (Nov6) but I said that it was not a good idea and we both needed to have clear heads before we saw each other again. You see, I'm not willing to try and make things work out after so little time has elapsed. I need to know that she made a realisation that she loved me and wanted to be with me. She told me that at her moms house she found an old pic of us and placed it next to her bed.
On her days away all she did was meet friends and family to talk about the situation. That shows her trying to get different perspectives on how to solve this really rough ground we are on.
Two nights ago we met for coffee... I had a lot of built in anger and frustration and so did she. When I picked her up sparks really flew. I needed closure with respect to the other guy; all I wanted was to see her make some effort on resolving the situation and betrayal she caused. It tool a long time to convince her she that what she did was a form of cheating and betrayal. All she could say was that she "only went for coffee with a a friend". About now, I am almost 100% convinced that nothing happened between those two. I know they have "chemistry" but I don't believe she is interested in pursuing a relationship with him.
I tried and tried to get her to come up with solutions on reassuring me and making me feel comfortable she would not see him again but she could not. She wanted my help to meet her halfway with those solutions as she "didnt want to guess" what was in my head. So here is what I told her I needed:
1. Delete number from phone
2. Delete all his emails
3. Kick off Facebook
4. Block his email account from all of hers
5. Write him an email stating that he means nothing to her but a friend, that she loves and wants to be with me and that she will stop seeing him because he his presence has brought only trouble and pain into her life and mine

Now with my issue being resolved with the above I believe I can move on and see how to work on the issues she has with me. If its something I do that I don't realize (and I am sure it is) I want to change to be a better person.
I am not willing to change who I am and what I stand for (like honesty and fidelity) but am willing to alter destructive behaviors and attitudes.

Now its 9am Nov 7th. I have been up since 7am; I wish I could sleep in on weekends but because of my weekly schedule I can't sleep past 8 no matter with. I guess this free time early mornings on weekends could be used to go work out...
Im on the couch writing you guys this while she sleeps in my bed. Yesterday afternoon around 3pm I went home from work and saw her on the couch working from home. I said hi and went straight to sleep as I was in no position to talk being completely drained. When I woke up I suggested to her to spend the night and talk and she agreed. Unfortunately for me I forgot a birthday dinner with my family and that caused a huge fight. She was rightfully upset because she canceled going to her father's house and seeing him to spend the night here. I ended up leaving for an hours or so and returned to find her exhausted. She really got majorly upset and stormed out but returned.

A few days ago I was right on the fence if I wanted to go on or break it off. I felt hurt, betrayed and she would not communicate with me nor take responsibility.Now I see hope for change.

I feel both of our war chests are completely drained and we are so tired of fighting. I am beginning to feel like a soldier who has just been broken and is ready to be instructed. A fresh start really seems possible from my end of things.



Here is my plan:
I want her to stay here but I know she needs her space. I am willing to bring her two days a week to stay with her parents. If I see her departures as positive time away for her I won't feel so hurt and abandoned and have my a-hole firewall up when she returns. During all of this I realized that when I am hurt my natural reaction is to hurt the other back to show how much they hurt me. When reflecting on this trait its easy to see how this makes situations worse.

Since right now we have issues talking and really understanding the other person verbally I proposed to write down our issues, concerns and solutions. This will give the other person a hard copy to consult at a later date when unsure as well as a memory aid.

During the week since we both have a lot on our plates I want to start fresh, like going for coffees and small things one does at the beginning of relationships. I feel a fresh start is just what we need and take the time to heal the wounds properly.

In a few days I want to BAN talking about the past. It always comes


So thank you again for reading this and if you have any suggestions on helping us start anew I will gladly put them into practice and let you know how they work.

Your problem seems VERY similar to mine... I'm also an engineer and everything is (as you put it so perfectly): black and white, and I believe all problems can be solved when analyzed and approached logically.. Your girlfriend's character also sounds VERY similar to mine.. independent, sometimes unpractical, (can I add confusing? Complicating?).. I've been thinking and thinking and thinking about my problem (I was here actually to browse some advice) and although I can't say I've figured anything out yet I'd like to brainstorm with you and keep me updated with your situation I'm curious though..

1) Did you actually make it to couple's therapy in the end? Caz that doesn't sound like something her character would go for.. (in fact when I remotely mentioned any therapy of the sort to my girlfriend I understood it was total no-no and never even bring something of the sort up again).

Here's a few suggestions and tell me what you think I could also use your feedback:

1) Can you accept the fact that you can't always understand why she does some things she does? You can think with your brain all you want but she thinks with her heart (how? I dunno) and its very difficult to understand. Maybe you, like me, need to let go of trying to understand and analyze EVERYTHING and just accept some things the way they are and accept that you can't change her. We might have conquered our respective fields but taming our curiosity and need for understanding is far more difficult. Maybe we just need to let go and put it on faith, trust and love.

2) Is it possible that she might be feeling threatened by your logical pragmatic attitude? If you tell her to do something and you always back up your argument with a logical reasonable explanation, then she's going to end up doing everything you say.. If she's independent she's going to feel threatened, even though in your view you're not controlling her, you're just stating facts.. but from her point of view she's starting to lose her personality... she might even feel stupid or always less than you because you always tell her what to do or you always find fault and point it out to her.. If she starts rebelling and, in reply, you corner her with your reason.. she just might blow up and say to hell with all your logic I'm going to do what I want.. which is going to up everything..

Tell me what do you think...