It's been two weeks now since I brought my chocolate lab pup home. Crate training seems to be going well, aside from a couple of accidents in his crate during the first two days.

I have yet to let the pup roam free in the home, so in order to give him some free space while he's inside I've built him a 25sq ft. play area and it's located in the living room where someone is always around. Problem is I don't think I socialized him with the area properly. As I'm typing this he's shredding up the newspapers I've laid down and occasionally he'll have a barking tantrum.

When I place him inside the area I reward him with a treat and ensure that there's a toy inside for him to play with. Despite these measures he'll occasionally pee in there or have a whining tantrum. Some methods I've attempted to employ are to play with him for a brief period or stand close by so as not to make him feel lonely - despite this the issue persists.

The only place he seems content with is hanging out in the backyard (which is small mind you) or playing with me in the living room.

So essentially:

1. Despite what I've tried doing, how do I get him to enjoy the space>
2. How can I get him to stop peeing in there. I take him out into the backyard at least once an hour yet there will be the odd time where he'll release.

Thanks in advance.
James

I have worked fairly closely with a dog trainer, and you are doing a few things wrong. I know many disagree, but the best punishment for a puppy is a good wack with a newspaper. There is little to no pain, its more of an emotional thing. They know you are displeased with them, or even angry. Puppy's desperately seek two things from their masters. Love and to give loyalty.

I would suggest that when you catch him peeing or within minutes after the fact, you give him a stern NO, and a good swat. Be consistent in whatever you are doing. If you want an allotted time which you will play with him, do so each day and ignore his whining. Over time the whining will stop.

The person I have worked with in the past train's the dogs for the blind. They train labs mostly. They react to your mood effectively. Positive reinforcement is a good thing but it can only go so far, as the puppies will tend to try to keep pushing the boundaries, which is where you need to draw the line with negative punishment. The puppy doesn't need to be let out to pee every hour. It seems to work best if they are let out certain times of the day. If you puppy doesn't use that time to go to the bathroom, bring him back in and punish him if he goes inside.

Often puppies will pee inside to gain more attention. Giving them more will not solve the problem because it teaches them that they can do that when they seek attention. Over a couple weeks of consistent training like this, he will learn that outside is the only place to go, and when you take him out, it is time for him to go.

That's all I can think of for now.

Don't hit your baby! There is no need for that.:(

If it doesn't hurt and is an 'emotional thing' for the pup (like the previous posted indicated) than why bother? A firm 'No' will work. It just takes time to potty train, some take to it right away and others take a little longer.:)

He's a ten week old puppy. Stop confusing him. Why do you put the papers down if not for him to shred and use the bathroom on?

If people are in the house make sure that he is taken outside frequently. Less than an hour between trips and make sure he urinates out there. As he grows so will his bladder and the amount of time he can go between potty breaks.

He is bored and lonely. Even at ten weeks of age he needs mental stimulation and he needs emotional support of his 'pack'. Give him an interactive toy like a kong that you put treats in. At regular intervals give him a petting and a different toy. Leave him alone if he is asleep (unless it is potty time). Increase the time away from him as he settles in. Do not pet him or give him attention if he is whining. However, the second he stops pet him. Once again increasing the time as he learns what you want him to do.

Infojunkie, please tell me you're sterile.

I really don't want to pay for your time in prison for child abuse.

If you'd like to know what a rolled up newspaper feels like to a 10 week old Lab, have someone take a whiffle ball bat to your nose at about 50mph, batting cage speed. It probably won't injure you. Or you could take a tap from anything that weighs 10 - 15% of your body weight.

There is a place for negative reinforcement in dog training. There is not a place for violence. Who's your friend the trainer, Michael Vick?

Mr. Toronto, see Cat 1864's synopsis of training. The negative reinforcement comes from denial of attention, not "getting his attention."

InfoJunkie, bad boy, go to your corner. :(

You never hit a dog! EVER!

Where you raised in the 1930's when they still thought this was okay? There are laws to protect animals now because scientists discovered that animals (brace yourself) can feel!

It makes me so mad when people come to the dog forum and tell someone to hit their dog. No, no, no, no, no! NO!

If you want a scared, untrusting, aggressive dog, and you want to end up paying a fine or going to jail, then that's the way to do it. If you want a companion, an animal that trusts you, obeys you, loves you, then this is the worst thing you can do.

I will admit, hitting your dog will stop him from his bad behavior, but only because he's afraid of you, not because you trained him.

A dog doesn't understand being hit. It doesn't understand when you yell at him. Those are human emotions, not dog emotions, and until you start treating your dog like a dog, you won't have any luck.

Infojunkie, please, tell me you don't have dogs.

One and very well behaved...

One and very well behaved...

I'm sure he is, otherwise he'll get beaten.

Do you have kids?

Just want to add.

I have three dogs, and I've never raised my hand to any of them. The youngest is a beagle, he's 1 year old. They're notorious for being stubborn and hard to train.

He's 1 year old now and the perfect pup. There were some hard times, potty training didn't go as quickly as it did with the lab and the border collie, but we stuck by it and now he's fine.

Hitting a dog is abuse, not training.

Sorry no children.

The law does not define abuse as "Don't Hit" but rather "intentionally causes serious physical injury to a companion animal with aggravated cruelty" NYCCS.

I have never beaten an animal. I don't condone beating. I don't like cruelty. But as a matter of opinion, I find nothing wrong with a firm swat with a newspaper on an animals rump.

The animals I have personally trained and have worked with in the past cannot have any room for error. Some are guiding blind people around, and others are used for hunting. They have to obey at all costs, sometimes it is a matter of life and death. A good number of these dogs end up walking the streets of NYC or Atlanta.

I am sorry if this displeases you, but if you want a dog to obey no matter what, that is what I would recommend. If you want a dog that can do a few tricks, not pee in the house, and is fun to cuddle with... then it isn't necessary, however you will find that these can be more quickly achieved.

Sorry Infojunkie, but you couldn't be more wrong.

You seriously think that you have to hit a dog in order to get complete obedience? Really?

My border collie is the most obedient dog I've ever known. The lab isn't bad either, but because he's now 14, almost completely deaf and blind, he doesn't hear or see my commands anymore, so let's cut him some slack.

The border collie would never defy an order, EVER! He hates cats, despises them. When off leash I never have to worry. If he sees a cat and I call him back, he never hesitates, because he knows who his pack leader is.

I've never hit, smacked or whacked any of my dogs. The trainers I know, and I know a lot of trainers, would never condone this behavior.

Dogs are dogs, they don't understand human behavior. Hitting is human behavior, it's not something you'll ever see in the dog world, so how can they possibly understand?

Will it work? Yes, hitting your dog will teach him, but for all the wrong reasons. A dog that's hit obeys out of fear. One day, if the dog has had enough, the hand that hit him will get bitten off.

A dog that's taught with patience, that dog is loyal and will never ever bite the hand of the person that trained him.

I assume that you'll have kids one day. Maybe not, but I'm going to assume.

When you have those kids, how will you potty train them? Will you whack them when they have an accident, or will you patiently show them what you want them to do?

Info, would you really punish a 10 week old puppy for his owner's mistakes?

Putting paper down for the puppy- what does that tell the animal? It's okay to go potty there and it makes an acceptable play-toy when you're bored.

The puppy is 10 weeks old how long do you expect him to be able to hold his bladder?

The pup gets loud- maybe the pup is saying "I need to potty". If he then pees, who takes the blame?

Train the owner to train the dog. Would you recommend using a rolled up newpaper on the owner?

Cat, I had to spread the love, but I agree.

There are no bad dogs, only misinformed owners.

This puppy is already confused, smacking him will only make it worse, like it would for any puppy.

At ten weeks of age most puppies need to use the potty at least every 2 hours, more then that and you will probably have an accident.

I also have to ask the OP, how often do you walk your puppy? The consistent barking is a sign of boredom and frustration. He needs exercise and a stint in the backyard isn't enough.

Two one hour walks a day, it's you're responsibility as a pet owner.

I think that a news paper would have helped me a few time in the past. Sorry, I assumed that with my first post that was a given, no newspaper. I am sorry I wasn't clear.

You are right, however, in saying train the owner. When working with the guide dogs, the trainer has to go to the new owner's home and teach him how to work with the dog. Even after the guide dog school, the training process is ongoing.

I think that a news paper would have helped me a few time in the past. Sorry, I assumed that with my first post that was a given, no newspaper. I am sorry I wasn't clear.

You are right, however, in saying train the owner. When working with the guide dogs, the trainer has to go to the new owner's home and teach him how to work with the dog. Even after the guide dog school, the training process is ongoing.


Here's where I have a problem.

You seem to be saying that these trainers advocate hitting a dog. I've never met a trainer yet that thinks this is okay. In fact, all of them would be astounded to hear this.

Two of the trainers I know house and train puppies that will be used for the blind. They're method is socialization, patience and consistency. They take the puppies everywhere they go, including shopping. The puppies wear a special vest saying that they're guide dogs in training, so the stores allow them in.

I'm going to call one of my friends that is a trainer for guide dogs and read her your posts. I'll let you know what she says, but I can already tell you without calling. She will be shocked that anyone thinks that hitting a dog is an acceptable method of training.

Okay, this is directly from my friend. She insisted that I quote and then post her response. The following post is her words, not mine.


I have worked fairly closely with a dog trainer, and you are doing a few things wrong. I know many disagree, but the best punishment for a puppy is a good wack with a newspaper. There is little to no pain, its more of an emotional thing. They know you are displeased with them, or even angry. Puppy's desperately seek two things from their masters. Love and to give loyalty.

I would like the name, number and address of this so called trainer. I am appalled that anyone, much less a trainer, would condone whacking a dog with anything.

As for the dog seeking love. Well, in a humans mind that's what it is, but in fact it's leadership that a dog seeks. They wish to please their leader, their alpha. Dogs don't love in the way humans do. By hitting a dog you take away trust and your position as leader. You are now just the thing that hits them and they do what they think you want because of fear, not loyalty.


I would suggest that when you catch him peeing or within minutes after the fact, you give him a stern NO, and a good swat. Be consistent in whatever you are doing. If you want an allotted time which you will play with him, do so each day and ignore his whining. Over time the whining will stop.

I really cannot believe that anyone would think this is okay. I am so angry right now I could smack you with a newspaper. This is the worst advice I've ever heard in my 20 plus years of training dogs.


The person I have worked with in the past train's the dogs for the blind. They train labs mostly. They react to your mood effectively. Positive reinforcement is a good thing but it can only go so far, as the puppies will tend to try to keep pushing the boundaries, which is where you need to draw the line with negative punishment. The puppy doesn't need to be let out to pee every hour. It seems to work best if they are let out certain times of the day. If you puppy doesn't use that time to go to the bathroom, bring him back in and punish him if he goes inside.

Your friend is a joke. He is not a legitimate trainer, he's an abuser and he's destroying dogs. I cannot believe that any trained trainer would be doing these things. He should be fired and not allowed to work with dogs or own dogs ever again. I am appalled. I have been personally training seeing eye dogs for over 20 years. Before that my parents were breeders and trainers of seeing eye dogs, so I grew up with this. I also took many courses on how to work with these special dogs and never, ever have I ever heard of something this horrible.

I am beside myself with anger right now.


Often puppies will pee inside to gain more attention. Giving them more will not solve the problem because it teaches them that they can do that when they seek attention. Over a couple weeks of consistent training like this, he will learn that outside is the only place to go, and when you take him out, it is time for him to go.

Are you serious? Do you know anything about dogs? Puppies are animals. They are small baby dogs, that's lesson number one. In the wild, which is still in their blood, they pee whenever they have to. They live outdoors in the wild, and the ground soaks up the pee. You will never see a mother dog scolding her puppy for peeing.

We humans have brought dogs into our home. Of course we don't like them peeing in that home, but you think they're doing it for attention? No, they're doing it because their bladders are full and need to be relieved. Just like when your bladder is full, then you go to the bathroom. Are you understanding yet?

A young puppy needs frequent bathroom breaks and should never be ignored when it needs to potty. Once an hour at first, go outside with the dog, say "potty" and when he does his thing, go nuts with praise.

That's how you potty train a puppy.

Alty read me the rest of your posts but I am way to upset to answer. I can't believe that there are people out there that think this is acceptable. What kind of monsters hit a dog instead of training the dog?

I am very upset and really would like the name of this so called trainer friend of yours. I would make sure that he'd never "train", or abuse another dog again.

Okay, it's Alty again.

That was all she had to say. She was almost in tears. This really upset her.

I'm still on the phone with her, so any questions you have, or anything else, she's willing to answer.

Cesar Millan hit two dogs tonight. A sharp slap to his body under the chin. Actually he does it every episode.

I don't advocate hitting, but to say no trainer would ever do it, that's being naïve.

There are many highly regarded books out there that advocate getting physical with your dog. One of the most popular, written by the Monks of New Skete say you should pick up your dog by both sides of his scruff, and lift him off the ground and shake him. They call it a shakedown.

That being said, Once again, I don't believe in being physical. I believe in patience, consitency and being positive. But being the owner of a 10 week old puppy, I can also see why people can get so frustrated.

Cesar Millan hit two dogs tonight. A sharp slap to his body under the chin. Actually he does it every episode.

I don't advocate hitting, but to say no trainer would ever do it, that's being naive.

There are many highly regarded books out there that advocate getting physical with your dog. One of the most popular, written by the Monks of New Skete say you should pick up your dog by both sides of his scruff, and lift him off the ground and shake him. They call it a shakedown.

That being said, Once again, I don't believe in being physical. I believe in patience, consitency and being positive. But being the owner of a 10 week old puppy, I can also see why people can get so frustrated.

Are you sure it was a hit?

I watch Cesar Millan all the time, I've never seen him hit a dog. I've seen him do the hold, where you grab the side of the dogs neck like a mother dog would and then pin him. That I agree with. I've never seen him hit though.

I'd like to see a clip of that, if you have a link.

I don't think that a trained legitimate trainer would ever advocate hitting a dog Those that do shouldn't be allowed to train. That's my opinion, and that of my friend and she's been a trainer for 20 plus years and knows many other trainers as well.

No, he slaps them on the side of their body all the time. What you are describing he also is a HUGE advocate for. "The Alpha Roll."

I don't have video, but you could probably pull it off the Nat Geographic website. He hit a big German Shepher tonight about 20 minutes into the show.

He's not beating the dog. It's just a sharp, quick strike to the body of a dog.

Reward Dog Training - Bad 1

May not always solicit a prompt response to your commands.

For most dogs, a reward may not be as strong a motivator as an aversive stimulus (e.g. leash jerk, slap on the muzzle, alpha roll). Some dogs may dislike an aversive stimulus to such an extent that they fear it.

Fear is one of the strongest motivators for dogs and most dogs will respond more consistently and more promptly to it compared to a reward.

Consistent and prompt response to commands becomes important when your dog is involved in a life or death situation, for example when he is running into traffic.

Reward Dog Training - Bad 2

May sometimes require creativity to out-think your dog.

With reward dog training, you may need to get creative and come up with your own obedience training methods. This is especially true when you are trying to stop bad behaviors such as jumping, leash biting, or biting.

While there are many reward methods for stopping these behaviors, they may not always work with your dog. I.e. your dog may decide that the reward from the bad behavior outweighs your offered reward. As a result you may need to experiment with a variety of methods and reward systems before finding one that works well.

In contrast, fear is more universal as a strategy. The same aversive method, for example the leash jerk, can be applied to a wide variety of situations.
Reward Dog Training - Bad 3

May require that you bring along some food or toys when on walks and outings.

Remember though that dogs do not care about the monetary cost of a reward. Many dogs consider sticks, pine cones, and leaves to be quite exciting and awesome. If you find yourself in a situation where you need a quick reward, some may be readily available in the trees and bushes around you.

It is sometimes possible and very desirable to use the dogs and people you meet during walks as rewards for your dog. For example, if he doesn't jump, he gets to go up and meet the new person. Once he starts jumping move him back, do a sit, and restart the greeting.

As your dog training lessons progress, you can begin to phase out the food rewards. Be careful to phase the rewards out slowly so that your dog stays motivated.

Reward Dog Training - Bad 4

May cause your dog to gain weight.

Obesity can sometimes become a problem if you give your dog too many dog treats.

This issue can be easily resolved by using part of his regular meals as training rewards, using smaller sized treats, and switching to low calorie food and treats.


I am not saying that reward dog training is bad. But aversive dog training is also accepted and sometimes there is more of a need for one over the other. My dog was trained using a combination of both techniques. Each has its risks and its positives.

James, you have gotten some great advice (apart from the hitting which I don't agree with)

Instead of going through and quoting all the responses I will just type up my own (sorry guys :o )

At 10 weeks old he is the equivalent of a toddler just learning how to walk and get into things.
Hitting him and disciplining him isn't going to do a great deal at this point, it's great to start training at this age but don't expect dramatic results.

Toilet training is a tough one at this age, you just have to grin and bear the accidents and praise praise praise when he goes potty in the right place (being outside)
When we have puppies we set up their little area or room completely covered in newspaper on the floor then we put their bedding down over top in one corner or side.
Puppies will rarely potty on their bedding and naturally go towards the paper (which is the rest of the space) As the days/weeks go by take away some of the paper exposing carpet, the pup should still keep going on the paper as you are only making the papered space smaller a bit at a time.

Once they are confident going on a smaller piece of newspaper then we start on training them to go outside.

Seeing as how he likes ripping up the paper you could try substituting it for puppy pads, these are a cloth like material with plastic backing and they are very absorbent. Even though they are cloth they don't feel like bedding due to the slightly crinkly plastic backing.

Another alternative that is new on the market (I have not tried them) is fake grass. You can by washable patches of fake grass for your dog to potty on, it gets them used to the feel and sensation of going on grass.

First of I'd like to thank you all for your responses, some more colourful than others. None the less I've received some insight into the two different schools of thought that are out there.

Thank you Shaz for the summary!

I did purchase some puppy pads but I haven't used them as of yet due to a simple issue that came up. I was under the impression that having pads inside and attempting to get him to pee outside may be confusing to a pup. When the pup is given two choices (indoors vs backyard) it could lead to problems with respect to potty training.

Before I move forward on replacing the newspaper with the puppy pads (I feel like that's a good idea), I just want to get some confirmation that this is a good approach.

Also I'd like to get some feed back with regards to my schedule for the puppy.

5:30 AM - 30 min walk
6 - 9 AM - Back in the Crate
9:00 AM - 1 Hour walk / jog
10 - 1 - Hangs out in the pen I built him or the backyard.
1:00 PM - Lunch
1:30 PM - 1 Hour walk
2:30 - 7 - Hang out in pen or backyard (every hour I try and take him to the backyard to pee.
7:00 PM - Dinner
7:30 PM - 1 hour walk / jog
8:30 - 11 - Hang out in pen / backyard
11:00 PM - 30 min walk
11:30 PM - Bedtime in crate

*If I or someone else is not home for any duration of time we crate him.

This is just opinion but I think there is a little too much exercise at the moment.
Medium/large breeds can end up with joint problems if you exercise them too much at a young age, running around playing is fine but fast walking or jogging should be left until they are a little older.
Slow walks are fine though, it will tire him out and socialise him.

If it were me I would substitute a couple of the walks for playing sessions... just chasing a ball in the backyard and having a little one-on-one time at home.

Would be a good idea to do this at the 1:30 walk... I'm not sure how common it is in labs (hopefully someone can help me out) but I know that any larger breed can be susceptible to bloat if they exercise too close to eating.
Bloating is where the stomach twists and the food inside it creates gas which makes their stomach expand... because it is twisted there is no way for the gas to escape.

Other than that your schedule looks really good, you are definitely spending plenty of time with him :)

From Infojunkie for lifes own citation:

Start with reward obedience training on your puppy.

It will be easier and less stressful, on both you and your puppy, to start with reward obedience training. I started with aversive obedience training and it made my puppy develop even more behavioral issues as well as develop dog aggression. Even aversive based dog trainers will not use leash jerks and alpha rolls on dogs that are younger than 6 months old.

Today, I only use reward training because it is more effective for me and my dogs.

It is also important to establish yourself as the leader of the pack by controlling your dog's resources through the Nothing in Life is Free (NILIF) program. This simply means that your dog has to do something for you (e.g. a Sit) before he gets any resource (e.g. food, toys, affection, freedom). Any bullying will be ignored or will result in the removal of that resource.



Puppy Training
The Other End of the Leash: Why We Do What We Do Around Dogs
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Don't Shoot the Dog!: The New Art of Teaching and Training
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Many people make the mistake of equating pack leadership with the use of aversive training. Aversive dog trainers may tell you that for a difficult, strong-willed, dominant dog, you must use stronger, punishment based methods in order to show him who is boss.

This is not true.

One of my dogs (a Shiba Inu) is extremely strong willed and can be quite difficult but he responds much better to reward training.

http://hubpages.com/hub/how-to-train-a-puppy-training-puppy-care-puppy-tips-new-puppy-training-tips-how-to-care-puppies-training-dog-training

I meant aversive training.

Thanks again for the suggestions.

I've switched the newspapers for the puppy pads but he's already begun chewing those up. I've lined the edges of the pads with diluted dabs of tobasco sauce.

Any better solutions? What can I do to stop him from chewing?

Thanks again for the suggestions.

I've switched the newspapers for the puppy pads but he's already begun chewing those up. I've lined the edges of the pads with diluted dabs of tobasco sauce.

Any better solutions? What can I do to stop him from chewing?

Is he teething? That's going to bring you a whole new understanding of chewing. When he gets seriously into teething I'd recommend some beef bullion ice cubes. Tasty, soothing to irritated gums, and cheap.

The Tabasco sauce is a great idea, a little vicks vapor rub can also work to stop them chewing (I recommend this for b*tches in heat) or bitter sprays from pet stores.

And as always I love Catsmines bullion ice cubes ;)