I am a resident manager. One of our tenant had a fire damage due to his family member's carelessness. His family member tried to cook chicken in the oven/stove and they did not know that there was a plastic container left on the bottom section of oven/stove. After couple minutes, that caused fire.

Tenants(2 adults and a child) moved in Aug. 2009. When they were moving in, they were in hurry. They wanted to move-in without cleaning and any preparation. They signed acknowledgement form says whatever the damage was their was not their responsible and took pictures of it. And about a 2~3 weeks later, 3 more adults came along and lived with them since without giving me any notice. Leasee, father, is not living with them, but mother, 3 adults and a child were living in one bedroom. All the utilites are paid by the landlord.

The son, who is not on the lease, is asking us to compensate the damage, mentally, phisycally and financially. Their mother is ill and her condition got worse after the fire.
Now they are living in at 2 BD, paid rent but not giving me the leae contract and asking to lower the rent. Otherwise they will sue us for misconduct of renting and damage.

I've been dealing with this people for 2 weeks.
I need some advice.

Thank you:(

Since they made the fire and the subsequent fire damage why do they possibly think they can sue you for the damages THEY made? You need to itemize what the fire damages are to this apartment and take them to small claims court and have them pay for this.

Have you turned this fire damage claim over to your insurance company in the meantime?

Also, you might want to check with your county zoning dept to see how many people are permitted to live in a one bedroom and two bedroom apartment. If there are too many people per apartment, you need to inform the tenants they are breaking the density laws of your county and that the "extra" people must leave the premises immediately or you will evict everyone.

Where is this? Did they not have renter's insurance? Does that apartment complex not have damage insurance?

All of the background is meaningless - they caused the fire. They are responsible for the damages.

Since they made the fire and the subsequent fire damage why do they possibly think they can sue you for the damages THEY made? You need to itemize what the fire damages are to this apartment and take them to small claims court and have them pay for this.

Have you turned this fire damage claim over to your insurance company in the meantime?

First of all, thank you very much for your opinion.
Tha damage is not done greatly, tenant sprayed fire extinguisher all over the kitchen, so cleaning will do.
Los Angeles county limits certain number of family member, density, I am going to looking for that fact as well.

Thank you again.

All of the background is meaningless - they caused the fire. They are responsible for the damages.

Thank you for your opinion, the building has insurance and the damage is about cleaning.
Will talk to the lawyer tomorrow. Thank you

You said you are the "resident manager". This indicates this is a multi-apartment building or complex. I would be surprised if the landloords do not have an attorney. So this should be just turned over to the attorney or insurance carrier. You should not be getting in the middle of this.

Unless the tenant can prove the fire was a result of some defect in the stove that the landlords were aware of, then they don't have a case.

If they insist on some sort of financial accomodoation simly tell them to consult the landlord's attorneys.

But the tenant

thank you for your opinion, the building has insurance and the damage is about cleaning.
Will talk to the lawyer tomorrow. thank you

Just an aside, Judy was not giving you opinion, but legal fact. As I said, unless they can prove the fire was the result of a problem with the stiove that mgmt was aware of, then there is no liabilty.

Just an aside, Judy was not giving you opinion, but legal fact. As I said, unless they can prove the fire was the result of a problem with the stiove that mgmt was aware of, then there is no liabilty.

Thank you very much.
Of course, Landlord has a lawyer but I was very upset about the tenants complaints and wanted get some advice first. They are accusing the previous tenant and me that I did not do the proper walk through and previous tenant did not clean. Which they acknowledged before move in and signed the paper, specifically mentioned the status of the unit and conditions which they said OK.

The fire was not the result of a problem nor malfunction with the stove. It was a plastic container left on the bottom section of the stove.

The tenants can say anything they want but they aren't going to win THIS one - all else aside, if this had been the same day they moved in, they had a RESPONSIBILITY not to do anything unsafe or allow anyone else to do anything unsafe.

That includes starting the oven without checking inside.

Let us know how it works out for you - I'm curious to see what happens next.

I WILL add that last Christmas I put my oven on preheat, the heating coil literally exploded, the fire department came, my smoke detectors went off and I had a bit of damage - not my fault. It was a defect in a 4-year old stove. Of course, my homeowners paid but then they sued the applicance manufacturer.

I suppose it's good that the tenants didn't claim defective product.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH Judy~
I WILL inform you later, for sure!

Please - I'll be looking forward to your follow up.

I'll be your experience as a resident manager can be helpful to other people with questions so I hope you come back and join us!

OF COURSE, I WILL.
I will update and follow up the procedure.

I've been dealing with this people for 2 weeks.
I need some advice.Hello Don:

You got GOOD advice. In terms of them hasseling you, I'd give them the lawyers phone number and tell them to call him... I wouldn't even speak to them about it.

The next thing I would do is evict them. I'm sure starting a fire is against your lease.

excon

Thank you ~
I should have known about this web site earlier!

Thanks again, I will update what happens next.

Hello everyone~
I am updating the news regards the "fire accident".
I just got a letter from the tenant's lawyer.

Attorney at Law
Northridge, CA 91325
URGENT - VIA FACSIMILE
October 27, 2009
Los Angeles, CA 90005
RE: Unit
Dear Mr Don
Please forward this letter to the landlord of your apartment building, and his/her attorney. I represent and who are currently tenants of your apartment building, (2 BD). The purpose of this letter is to negotiate an appropriate rent amount for this unit, in light of the recent fire damage in (2 BD)and surrounding circumstances that forced my clients to move into (2 BD) on October 3rd. Enclosed is an October 7, 2009 letter from my clients explaining the events in more detail, which you previously received.
My clients' request is to remain in (2 BD) for a six (6) month term, with a rent amount of $1900 per month. As you know, when a tenant is forced to move to another unit because the original unit has become uninhabitable, a landlord is restricted from charging higher rent than the amount under the original lease agreement. For (1 BD), my clients agreed to pay $1800 per month. Notwithstanding this, my clients are willing to pay $1900 per month for a short-term lease of (2 BD), which is what they can afford. (I understand that for the month of October 2009, they have already paid $2300 shortly after moving into Unit 204. They will not be able to continue such payments.)
In return for a rent amount of $1900 per month for (2 BD) (under a six-month term), my clients agree to waive all claims and reimbursement requests for medical expenses and property damage that were directly caused by the fire. Of particular concern is the mother of , , who has been gravely ill with cancer, is bed-ridden, and now continues to suffer the effects of smoke inhalation from the (1 BD)fire, as well as emotional distress. This has been clearly documented with her health care providers, and I can provide you with copies of such documentation.
We believe the above is a fair and reasonable offer. Thank you for your attention to this matter. You may reach me at my office number above, or on my cell at
Sincerely,
r
Cc:
Enclosure

And the following is the letter from tenant.


Resident name: Unit#
Contact Phone#
Email:
On October 3 2009, around one o'clock in the afternoon, our family began preparing lunch for the day. We decided to use the oven for the first time since our move into the apartment to bake some chicken. We set the timer for 15 minutes to bake and within approximately two minutes, smoke filled the kitchen. As soon as our visiting brother, Vincent, noticed the smoke, he proceeded to take action and retrieved the fire extinguisher in the hallway. Jeopardizing his own safety and health, he put in his best effort to extinguish the fire (while the gas-powered oven was still active) to prevent further damages to the unit and potentially the building. He then evacuated our family out of the unit and we immediately called 911 and reported the fire. The fire department came within 10 to 15 minutes and put the fire out. After they secured the unit, Captain of the Los Angeles fire department, came and reported to us that the fire was not caused by the contents in the oven, but by an unknown object inside the broiler. We confirmed with every member of the family that no one put any kind of object(s) inside the broiler since the move in date of August 2009. Therefore, the object inside the broiler was present prior to our residence.
Due to the smoke, our 65 year old mother, who is suffering from stage four colon cancer, has added breathing difficulties ever since the horrible event. Our brother Vincent is also suffering from headaches and dizziness from the smoke he breathed in, as well as emotional stress and trauma. We are also raising a five year old little girl and are very concerned about any potential damages to her health. Furthermore, our family is having financial difficulties, but due to the circumstances at hand, we determined the unit inhabitable with our mother's highly sensitive condition in mind, as well as our child's well being. We had no other choice but to move out and into a two bedroom unit (2 BD) that we are not able to afford at this time. In addition, the smoke from the fire damaged our furniture, clothes, food, kitchen utensils, and other materials.
We are very displeased with the way your management handled this situation. You (the management) insist that the entire blame is on us, without any consideration of your safety (not sanitation) measures of (1 BD) before our tenancy, and left us without any options or assistance on your part. The transition from unit 200 to unit 204 was dreadful with no sense of urgency or sensitivity from your management. Our other visiting brother. Kevin, suffered a back injury because we had to move all our furniture by ourselves without any offer of assistance from your management. Upon moving in (2 BD), we had no electricity for two nights because the unit had a circuit problem, which was very inconvenient for us. We requested on numerous occasions to sanitize the kitchen in (2 BD) but still no action and again no safety inspection. Our brother Vincent asked repeatedly that your management make any remedies of the situation but all he received was denial. The remedial actions of your management are unacceptable and we request that this situation be resolved by the ownership.
Our first priority is the well being of our sick mother and we do not wish to prolong any more stress and discomfort for her and our family. We do not have the time, energy, or funds to clean (1 BD) as you have demanded from us or to stay in (2 BD) paying twenty three hundred per month. The only resolution to this dilemma is that we stay in (2 BD) paying eighteen hundred dollars a month with a six month or one year lease. We just want to continue with our lives and do not wish to waste any more time and energy to this matter. Please consider our proposal to prevent any unnecessary hassle in the future.


I need to forward this to the lawyer, I think.
1 BD - all the utilities are included 1,000 sf large size.
I replaced unit # into (1 BD) & (2 BD)
They did not forced to move into 2 BD and ill mom and brother were not tenants, visitors, and stayed longer than 40 days without any advanced notice.
No circuit problem, the service was not turned on under their name and they even did not sign the 2 BD lease yet, and reject return the 1 BD keys!

I am very frustrated and... do not know how to express this feeling...

So laugh at them and tell them you will forward it.

Your apartment complex should have sued them for the damages long before this anyway, or at least billed them for any and all damages.

1. the person who caused the fire is responsible for any and all damages.
2. and the complex can hold both the person who started it and the tenant responsible.

So they did not sign a lease, they are just month to month renters there, does not give them any special status.

They have to stay in what ever you have open at the going rent. In fact if their unit is fixed, they move back to it.

Ok, first I missed the fact that they were moved into another unit at a higher rent. But all you need to do is forward this to the landlord, let him handle it.

Many people (I do it) use ovens for storage. So, if they did not check to make sure the broiler was clear, that is not the landlord's problem. Especially when they signed a release that the apartment wasn't cleaned.

I think the complex was nice by moving them into another unit. If they had renter's insurance, as they should have, then their insurance would have covered a move to a hotel into the apartment could be repaired.

I'm assuming the apartment has been repaired and cleaned by now. So the landlord can tell them they can move back in if they can't afford the rent in the larger apartment.

I would, however, as a good will gesture, refund them the $500 difference in rent for the one month. But that's just me. If they try litigation it will cost more than that. Though I don't think they will win.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR ADVICE AND HELP~!
I forwarded the letter to the landlord's attorney. Let me update you as I get some news.

Thank you for your word. I will update you the situation.

Please do. By the way, is their original unit now habitable?

Yes, their new unit is spotless.
I spoke with our attorney, and it is the same response as yours and others'.
They just want to get cheaper rent and want to move out asap without any credit damage.
Let me update you what is happening next.

Have they been told they can move back into their original unit? What was their response to that?

They want to move out without damaging their credit.
They want 30% cheaper rent for another 6 months.
They do not want to go back to 1 BD cause of their mother, who is ill, and 4 adults in 1 BD seems too many than 2 BD. Now they tasted honey, they do not want to go back.

Did you look into the density laws as I suggested? That definitely is way too many people now living in a 2 bedroom apartment and a 1 bedroom apartment previously. And, you need to remind them that their visitors have overstayed the 40 days' limit a long time ago. (be sure to count the days to present date when you inform them of this). What are they doing to do about remedying that rule?

They made the fire happen. The apartment complex didn't.

At this point in time I would not deal directly with them anymore than you have to. Let the lawyers handle it.

Did you look into the density laws as I suggested? That definitely is way too many people now living in a 2 bedroom apartment and a 1 bedroom apartment previously. And, you need to remind them that their visitors have overstayed the 40 days' limit a long time ago. (be sure to count the days to present date when you inform them of this). What are they doing to do about remedying that rule?

They made the fire happen. The apartment complex didn't.

The local density law(LA county) is not specifically mention/limit certain number, especially to a family member visitor. Attorney called it, "Grey Area". We can only define with the lease contract for sure, if it mention the number of tenants and fees for the visitors. I mentioned their overstay period, and the local law is treaky. If a visitor/visitors stay 14 days and out, and come back again a day or two, that cannot be charged as the lease agreement. Anyway, I will update you as it goes to the end of the story.
Thank you for your concern~