I'm looking at my credit card transactions and blown away already, just 3 Makari items and I am $300 poorer instantly. And these products may only last me 2-3 weeks, I am going to be treating my whole body.

When I finally get my starter order, I plan to use the Caviar Cream mostly. Which is about $65 shipped. For 1 ounce.

That might only last me a couple weeks And the other products are no cheaper. Melederm is $100, Fair and Flawless is $180. Even if I find something that works satisfactorily, how much is that going to add up to per year. The economy is bad and I have school to pay for too :(

What do you guys find both works AND is low priced?

Anything? And why are they so expensive anyway? How can the ingredients in 1 ounce of cream really cost $60? I can buy a whole a whole new wardrobe for schoo instead of a couple jars of makari. :rolleyes:

I have to say, if you're considering paying this much money to change your appearance, well, it's not a cost that needs to be spent.

It's the same as spending money on a boob job, nose job or tummy tuck. It's not a needed expense, it's a personal expense.

If you can't afford it then you don't do it, it's really that simple.

Altenweg, thanks, I see... that 1 oz bottle of $60 cream or that $180 lightening kit from FF is a luxury expenditure that why it's so expensive.

Anyway, guys, does high-end necessarily mean its more effective? Makari seems definitely high-end! :)

Altenweg, thanks, I see... that 1 oz bottle of $60 cream or that $180 lightening kit from FF is a luxury expenditure that why it's so expensive.

Anyway, guys, does high-end necessarily mean its more effective? Makari seems definitely high-end!! :)

Not necessarily!
Some are high priced products such as ones from the department stores but have very little of the active ingredients. High price pays for the pretty package, the magazine advertisements and the super model spoke person endorsing it.

Makari definitely has that high end look, there products are packaged real nice.

The world may never know.

I just have to shake my head when I see those numbers... The most money I ever spent on my skin was 80.00 for Obagi... and I was an ignorant fool to do so... I can buy 4% HQ online for 15.00 but I didn't know better.

Personally, I pretty much refuse to spend over 40.00 on any lightening products, it's just not necessary, same yourself a lot of trouble and money and compound your own damn HQ

Makari could cut back big time if they didn't have such high-end looking jars. The jars can't make you lighter, nor can the advertisements and celebrities. That's why I have been searching for much lower cost products that lightens very well.

Are you using any peels or Retin-a.. something to really exfoliate & prepare the skin for the skin (& yes wallet)-lightening products?

I honestly don't think the F&F and Othine would be working nearly as well if I didn't use the glycolic peels regularly. Peeling was a key part of the spa's treatment too.

*peeling
*hq/kojic or bleaching agent of choice
*sunscreen

It's synergistic. This system is definitely working on my tanned parts & melasma.. I'm not sure if it's the answer for all-over lightening.

I just ordered 50% glycolic for my outer arms, back of hands, tops of feet that are resistant & laughing at the 35%. The 35% is working fine for my face and neck. My skin feels great and I'm sure it allowed the lighteners to sink in, bringing my face and neck closer to the color of my décolletage & torso.

I've quit the hq & sepi on my face for now so that my arms and hands can catch up.

Flash
http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/6251/picture5kk.jpg

No flash
http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/2091/oct15comp2noflsh.jpg

I'm so thankful that I haven't exposed my legs to sun in a while so I'll only have to tackle my knees (with TCA 20%) and tops of feet. Hopefully the 50% Gly will break up the perma-tan crud and let the hq & sepi do their thing.

They're very big on HQ and Retin-A regimens over on SkinCareTalk.com's lightening forum. I'm going to try it on my darker areas to see if it speeds the process. I'm too nervous to use it on my face also as I mentioned before, my face is light enough for now.

Keep in mind that we didn't get scorched overnight, so patience is key. Over there(SCT) they're rec'ing 6 months(?) of HQ & RA for lightening. I've only been at this since the beginning of August and I do see a difference.

Again make sure you're doing something to peel away the old cells and get the most from your pricey (okay maybe not Othine and Nadinola) potions. HTH!

Makari could cut back big time if they didn't have such high-end looking jars. The jars can't make you lighter, nor can the advertisements and celebrities. That's why I have been searching for much lower cost products that lightens very well.

Truth! LMAO!

I am a white woman but I live in a community of black people.
I know all my black friends do not use these products.
People,I am shocked to see that you are not happy with you and will spend all this money to make yourself lighter!
C'mon
Love yourself.
Are you nothing but the color of your skin?
C'mon,I thought we were past that.
Please stop!
Honor yourself for who you are !

I am a white woman but I live in a community of black people.
I know all my black friends do not use these products.
People,I am shocked to see that you are not happy with you and will spend all this money to make yourself lighter!!
C'mon
Love yourself.
Are you nothing but the color of your skin?
C'mon,I thought we were past that.
Please stop!!
Honor yourself for who you are !

I do think there's a difference between fading & peeling away melasma and sun damage to get an even-toned complexion and lightening one's base color simply for the brighter shade and imagined status it will supposedly bring.

I've been thinking and feeling a million things since joining this board and reading some of the posts but I don't want to judge... I get the history of racism and need for self-acceptance.

OTOH, as a reformed tanner, I simply thought I that looked better darker. Part me wants to think for some people that this is an inverse of what I went through for years with darker=sexier.

If only there were safe (and easily reversible) ways to tan, bleach, or heck... dye one's self green... then it would be all fine by me. The possible health risks make me nervous most of all.

I'm assuming the lighteners might have a revelation and stop at some point just like many tanners wake-up and stop. It took me until 40 yrs old.:o

I do think there's a difference between fading & peeling away melasma and sun damage to get an eventoned complexion and lightening one's base color simply for the brighter shade and imagined status it will supposedly bring.

I've been thinking and feeling a million things since joining this board and reading some of the posts but I don't want to judge... I get the history of racism and need for self-acceptance.

OTOH, as a reformed tanner, I simply thought I that looked better darker. Part me wants to think for some people that this is an inverse of what I went through for years with darker=sexier.

If there were safe ways to tan, bleach, or heck... dye one's self green... then fine by me. The possible health risks make me nervous most of all.

I'm assuming the lighteners might have a revelation and stop at some point just like many tanners wake-up and stop. It took me until 40 yrs old.:o

We need to accept who we are are what we look like! Bottom line ,we are who we are.
My best friend is black as black and beautiful.
She is beautiful.inside and out.

Lets stop these young girls thinking they have to be caramel or white to be pretty.It's insane.
WHY?
I don't get why you want to be light.
Explain it to me please.
Embrace your color ,please embrace who you are and your beautiful color is who you are!

We need to accept who we are are what we look like! Bottom line ,we are who we are.
My best friend is black as black and beautiful.
She is beautiful.inside and out.

Lets stop these young girls thinking they have to be caramel or white to be pretty.It's insane.
WHY?
I don't get why you want to be light.
Explain it to me please.
Embrace your color ,please embrace who you are and your beautiful color is who you are!

I am embracing my color. I've stopped tanning. I've never wanted to be light, white or even my own medium neither-here-nor-there shade of brown. Hence the laying out to get darker.

I've stopped tanning for several reasons:

It aggravates my melasma (since having children)

Unless I was able to lay out nude or nearly nude, I was uneven. (chocolate head w/ caramel boobs etc.)

Finally and most deeply I've stopped for peace and self-acceptance. I've worn my hair natural for years and I've grown to love it. My next challenge was to accept my G-d given coloring.


I'm not sure that you're reading my posts closely enough.:)

I do understand what you're saying and I agree. I find a naturally dark-skinned, even-toned complexion one of the more beautiful sights in life.

We need to accept who we are are what we look like! Bottom line ,we are who we are.
My best friend is black as black and beautiful.
She is beautiful.inside and out.

Lets stop these young girls thinking they have to be caramel or white to be pretty.It's insane.
WHY?
I don't get why you want to be light.
Explain it to me please.
Embrace your color ,please embrace who you are and your beautiful color is who you are!


Melasma

Melasma - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=1&ved=0CAwQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FMelasma&ei=8HnZSvjFDoT-tQOev5WxCQ&usg=AFQjCNHqJ7de0CKs9Ps-FCswiGbKs-s8kQ&sig2=OmqCpnppOwtIR1efbZPo5Q)
http://ep.yimg.com/ip/I/yhst-14738549992190_2058_15428734

Hydroquinone Creams: PharmacyMix Mexoryl SX, Mexoryl XL, Anthelios Sunscreens, La Roche Posay, Hydroquinone Cream, Lakota, Thorne Research, Green Cream, Retinol Cream, MaMa Lotion, Anti Aging Skin Care (http://www.pharmacymix.com/hydroquinone-creams.htm)

Uneveness/Sun damage

http://www.howtogetridofstuff.com/wp-content/uploads/how-to-get-rid-of-farmers-tan.jpg

http://earthboundkitchen.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/tan-line-back.JPG

http://www.studio404saratoga.com/farmertan.jpg

For years, I took more sun to disguise these problems (and because I liked being much darker than my natural shade!) but the best solution is actually in removing the damage and using sunblock.

Again, I understand what you're saying Artlady.

Maybe it is irresponsible of me to post here and perhaps I should simply stick to the melasma and anti-aging forums?:confused:

Melasma

Melasma - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=1&ved=0CAwQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FMelasma&ei=8HnZSvjFDoT-tQOev5WxCQ&usg=AFQjCNHqJ7de0CKs9Ps-FCswiGbKs-s8kQ&sig2=OmqCpnppOwtIR1efbZPo5Q)
http://ep.yimg.com/ip/I/yhst-14738549992190_2058_15428734

Hydroquinone Creams: PharmacyMix Mexoryl SX, Mexoryl XL, Anthelios Sunscreens, La Roche Posay, Hydroquinone Cream, Lakota, Thorne Research, Green Cream, Retinol Cream, MaMa Lotion, Anti Aging Skin Care (http://www.pharmacymix.com/hydroquinone-creams.htm)

Uneveness/Sun damage

http://www.howtogetridofstuff.com/wp-content/uploads/how-to-get-rid-of-farmers-tan.jpg

http://earthboundkitchen.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/tan-line-back.JPG

http://www.studio404saratoga.com/farmertan.jpg

For years, I took more sun to disguise these problems (and because I liked being much darker than my natural shade!) but the best solution is actually in removing the damage and using sunblock.

Again, I understand what you're saying Artlady.

Maybe it is irresponsible of me to post here and perhaps I should simply stick to the melasma and anti-aging forums?:confused:

All I am saying is love you and be who you are NATURALLY! That is all!
I abhor the thought of someone trying to change their skin color,It hurts me to think someone has a no sense of who they are because of the color of their skin.
I have fought for
People to have human rights for many years and it pains me to think my work was in vain.

A beautiful person is someone who is good and kind and real and real is the bottom line!

We need to accept who we are are what we look like! Bottom line ,we are who we are.
My best friend is black as black and beautiful.
She is beautiful.inside and out.

Lets stop these young girls thinking they have to be caramel or white to be pretty.It's insane.
WHY?
I don't get why you want to be light.
Explain it to me please.
Embrace your color ,please embrace who you are and your beautiful color is who you are!

Hi, artlady!

Hey, my skin is white (and red!), freckled, oily as well as dry, wrinkled in certain areas, and also there's the possibility that I have a touch of skin cancer.

Of course, you know me in a number of other ways now...

Do you care what my skin looks like? Could I possibly be one of your best friends? You're already a good friend of mine, at least online, and I don't even know what you look like!

By the way, I'm going to be the piano soloist at the next concert for a local concert band of about 60 music professionals. It's just like the local symphony, except it's a concert band.

I plan on keeping my now, long beard and moustache as well as long hair for the concert!

My point here is, it ain't so much what you look like that counts, but your attitude and what you can do that really counts!

Thanks!

Hahaha, I don't know ANYONE who doesn't have an uneven tan...
I have white boobs and butt (so white they could literally blind you on a sunny day lol) but the rest of my body (that isn't covered by a bikini top and shorts) is a bit darker... it's not as bad as that guy in the first pic but I do have definite lines...

The only person who sees my tan lines is my boyfriend... I don't go walking around town naked so who cares?

I get that my black friends are uneven and I have a friend who has vitiligo and that really sucks.
I see on this board ALL the time about people who are working so hard to achieve something that is illusive and it makes me sad.
I am going to have my girl next door come over and talk to people.
She is very light and beautiful and her sisters are way dark so there is issues there.
I am white but I understand to a point!
I will never get not being YOU!

Hi, artlady!

Hey, my skin is white (and red!), freckled, oily as well as dry, wrinkled in certain areas, and also there's the possibility that I have a touch of skin cancer.

Of course, you know me in a number of other ways now...

Do you care what my skin looks like? Could I possibly be one of your best friends? You're already a good friend of mine, at least online, and I don't even know what you look like!

By the way, I'm going to be the piano soloist at the next concert for a local concert band of about 60 music professionals. It's just like the local symphony, except it's a concert band.

I plan on keeping my now, long beard and moustache as well as long hair for the concert!

My point here is, it ain't so much what you look like that counts, but your attitude and what you can do that really counts!

Thanks!

Hay Bud!
My youngest son (22) has always had freckles and a bit of red hair.
He never liked it.As a kid. Freckles.

I helped him to understand at an early age that what he looked like was cool! He came to accept it.

There was no person in this world who looked like him!

I put makeup on him one day when he was 10 and we looked in the mirror and I asked him what he saw and he said not me and that was the end of him bumming out about freckles. :)

I was surprised,and happy that he got it.

Not too surprised because he was and is a cool kid but he stopped feeling bad about his freckles.

I will remember that day forever:)

So, it didn't cost him any money, loss of reputation, time spent on more worthwhile endeavors, etc. to realize that, the way that he looked was just fine?

Thanks!

I do feel that different people are at different stages of development and I thought that I was trying to be sensitive to that by withholding judgment. (Or at least keeping some of my thoughts to myself.)

OTOH, I have no idea how old some of the members are here so maybe my old lady skin drama and gory details aren't appropriate and possibly misleading.

I thought I've made it quite clear in the short time that I've been here that I don't believe lighter shades of skin are better in any way.

I found this AMHD forum searching for info about side effects and safety of hydroquinone. I've posted before that I am frightened about some of the more dangerous methods that people with perfectly fine skin are using to lighten and even attempt to depigment it.

My personal issue is that I feel better with even skin. I've already done tanning to 'even'(disguise) it a bit & I know how that story ends.

I'm not alone in simply preferring to have even skin... many people esp. women (my husband is 50 different shades but IMO it's different for men) do.

Hormonal changes & pregnancies can trigger melasma and if you've experienced this, you know it stinks. Even wacky tan lines, farmer tans etc can be bothersome and irritating.

OTOH. I realize that there are people like my dh who don't care.

He didn't get this at all at first. I had to explain my little wood varnish stripping project to him as well. He is now curious and full of jokes about my 'restoration' but there is a slightly nervous undercurrent.

On super shallow note, I simply don't like my face to be one color and décolletage another.
We can't cover up the calico in a dinner jacket like men can.

***
My question is how far does all of this groovy self-acceptance go?

Is it negative to treat wrinkles modestly (not Stepford-level botox)? How about surgery for a poochy stomach after several children?

Are these tweaks the 'be-all, end-all' of life? No, but I feel that if something can be fixed safely , why not?

& Not fair, freckles are cute!

... Being calico-tortoiseshell is another story entirely. Lol!

I do feel that different people are at different stages of development and I thought that I was trying to be sensitive to that by withholding judgment. (Or at least keeping some of my thoughts to myself.)

OTOH, I have no idea how old some of the members are here so maybe my old lady skin drama and gory details aren't appropriate and possibly misleading.

I thought I've made it quite clear in the short time that I've been here that I don't believe lighter shades of skin are better in any way.

I found this AMHD forum searching for info about side effects and safety of hydroquinone. I've posted before that I am frightened about some of the more dangerous methods that people with perfectly fine skin are using to lighten and even attempt to depigment it.

My personal issue is that I feel better with even skin. I've already done tanning to 'even'(disguise) it a bit & I know how that story ends.

I'm not alone in simply preferring to have even skin ...many people esp. women (my husband is 50 different shades but IMO it's different for men) do.

Hormonal changes & pregnancies can trigger melasma and if you've experienced this, you know it stinks. Even wacky tan lines, farmer tans etc can be bothersome and irritating.

OTOH. I realize that there are people like my dh who don't care.

He didn't get this at all at first. I had to explain my little wood varnish stripping project to him as well. He is now curious and full of jokes about my 'restoration' but there is a slightly nervous undercurrent.

On super shallow note, I simply don't like my face to be one color and decolletage another.
We can't cover up the calico in a dinner jacket like men can.

***
My question is how far does all of this groovy self-acceptance go?

Is it negative to treat wrinkles modestly (not Stepford-level botox)? How about surgery for a poochy stomach after several children?

Are these tweaks the be-all end all of life? No, but I feel that if something can be fixed safely why not?

I totally get what you are saying,please don't get me wrong.

I am not speaking of you specifically but I do believe there is some point where we have to have self acceptance .

This is who I am and I am fine!

Looks are superficial and that is a lame way to go.

I know we all want to look good but.. what length are we willing to go to achieve that aim?

My personal issue is that I feel better with even skin. I've already done tanning to 'even'(disguise) it a bit & I know how that story ends.
My question is how far does all of this groovy self-acceptance go?

Is it negative to treat wrinkles modestly (not Stepford-level botox)? How about surgery for a poochy stomach after several children?

Are these tweaks the 'be-all, end-all' of life? No, but I feel that if something can be fixed safely , why not?[/B]


Exactly, Eggo!

Many of the "answers" in Skin Lightening are reminders "I will never understand why you dont want to be YOU!"... Made me wonder if this person ever wears makeups, colors hair, uses anti-aging products, ever used fake bake or self tanners, everrrrr.

:D

I do feel that different people are at different stages of development and I thought that I was trying to be sensitive to that by withholding judgment. (Or at least keeping some of my thoughts to myself.)

OTOH, I have no idea how old some of the members are here so maybe my old lady skin drama and gory details aren't appropriate and possibly misleading.

I thought I've made it quite clear in the short time that I've been here that I don't believe lighter shades of skin are better in any way.

I found this AMHD forum searching for info about side effects and safety of hydroquinone. I've posted before that I am frightened about some of the more dangerous methods that people with perfectly fine skin are using to lighten and even attempt to depigment it.

My personal issue is that I feel better with even skin. I've already done tanning to 'even'(disguise) it a bit & I know how that story ends.

I'm not alone in simply preferring to have even skin ...many people esp. women (my husband is 50 different shades but IMO it's different for men) do.

Hormonal changes & pregnancies can trigger melasma and if you've experienced this, you know it stinks. Even wacky tan lines, farmer tans etc can be bothersome and irritating.

OTOH. I realize that there are people like my dh who don't care.

He didn't get this at all at first. I had to explain my little wood varnish stripping project to him as well. He is now curious and full of jokes about my 'restoration' but there is a slightly nervous undercurrent.

On super shallow note, I simply don't like my face to be one color and decolletage another.
We can't cover up the calico in a dinner jacket like men can.

***
My question is how far does all of this groovy self-acceptance go?

Is it negative to treat wrinkles modestly (not Stepford-level botox)? How about surgery for a poochy stomach after several children?

Are these tweaks the 'be-all, end-all' of life? No, but I feel that if something can be fixed safely , why not?

Let me get this straight,no groovy self acceptance thing going on,
Why can't you just not use anything and have your normal skin color?

I totally get what you are saying,please don't get me wrong.

I am not speaking of you specifically but I do believe there is some point where we have to have self acceptance .

This is who I am and I am fine!

Looks are superficial and that is a lame way to go.

I know we all want to look good but ..what length are we willing to go to achieve that aim?

Oh, until the hydroquinone pickles my brain? :p J/k

How far? Well, I'm done when I'm relatively even. The sunscreen is for life, as it should be for everyone.<casts meaningful look around the room>

Oh well, my husband (he's Euro & very melanin-challenged) doesn't listen about that either.

Glycolic peels are safe AFAIK.. they keep you smooth and yummy so that's a keeper but less frequently.

My aesthetican said that 3-6 months is the max rec. for HQ (at 4%), so I'll drop that part Februaryish whether I'm monchromo or not.

That's what I don't understand about some of the threads here and at other sites ~ How people plan to bleach their entire bodies for years? It seems beyond toxic and even if it could be done safely, exhausting.

Also the high % HQ creams I've read about make my eyes burn just thinking about. I don't if it's online bravado or creative storytelling but the tales of long-term use of super strong blends worries me.

Your consciousness can always evolve but if you've damaged your vehicle irreparably, well that just sux tragically.

Let me get this straight,no groovy self acceptance thing going on,
Why can't you just not use anything and have your normal skin color?

Impatience and vanity?:D I have an event in Dec.

Yes, I could only use sunscreen and a loofah or scratchy gloves (am I allowed to exfoliate intentionally in this scenario?) and eventually snap back but that would take forever.

I could also do say... lemon juice, apple cider vinegar, olive oil & papaya soap too. That would help it along but still much more s-l-o-w-l-y than with my dear peels & potions.. . and I'd reek like a salad in the process.

After my first real east coast winter at college, a friend from home asked... no.. more like delicately accused me of lightening myself... nope. I didn't see the sun for months!

Exactly, Eggo!

Many of the "answers" in Skin Lightening are reminders "I will never understand why you dont want to be YOU!".... Made me wonder if this person ever wears makeups, colors hair, uses anti-aging products, ever used fake bake or self tanners, everrrrr.

:D

I know.. I stopped straightening my hair years ago but I still use a mountain of different conditioners, aloe gels, spritzes, even my own concoctions etc. to maintain my 'natural' hair.

I have a couple of discreet(easily hidden with clothing) tattoos and few extra holes in my head too... so it's hard for me to say where someone else should draw the line.. . garsh, if I were named the Empress of Earth, honestly I probably would make it a rule that people should make the best of their given skin coloring.. . Sort of polish it up, rock it and live life.

There's always fashion to drive us nuts.

That proclamation would also come from experience and having to do a clean up job when I should have taken better care of myself. My aesthetician told me what to do and what not to do but I didn't listen.

OTOH

Every time I read one of those 'mono' posts I hope that it's a lie or prank because that entire depig idea is terrifying and sad to me.:(

Beyond the racist/colonial echoes around bleaching... I've been trying to look at lightening thing in a body modification context. One person's modification might be considered a type of mutilation by someone else?

Can you tell I'm reeeeeeally trying to get my brain around this?lol.:D

I don't want to harshy judge people who I assume are already stressed about feeling too dark.

Eta: On yet another hand, I don't want to enable or imply that I agree with the negative color assessments either.

I'm also flashing on body dysmorphia. Hmm I don't know, I'm so out of my depth. Maybe I'll just stick with talking about melasma & peels for now.
****

I'm rambling and I apologize for OTing your thread GB. To answer directly, I think some of the lightening products are ridiculously priced because the companies play on people's desperation and/or impatience.

Umm, that would be me and F & F... the impatience

if I were named the Empress of Earth, honestly I probably would make it a rule that people should make the best of their given skin coloring. ...Sort of polish it up, rock it and live life.

OTOH

Everytime I read one of those 'mono' posts I hope that it's a lie or prank because that entire depig idea is terrifying and sad to me.:(

Beyond the racist/colonial echoes around bleaching.... I've been trying to look at lightening thing in a body modification context. One person's modification might be considered a type of mutilation by someone else?

Can you tell I'm reeeeeeally trying to get my brain around this?lol.:D

I don't want to harshy judge people who I assume are already stressed about feeling too dark.

eta: On yet another hand, I don't want to enable or imply that I agree with the negative color assessments either.

I'm also flashing on body dysmorphia. hmm I don't know, I'm so out of my depth. Maybe I'll just stick with talking about melasma & peels for now.
****

I'm rambling and I apologize for OTing your thread GB. To answer directly, I think some of the lightening products are ridiculously priced because the companies play on people's desperation and/or impatience.

umm, that would be me and F & F...the impatience


I loved this read -- I would love to be part of your Earth Empire!

On the area of "depig" I think people are under the false impression that term implies total vitiligo stripping of color like with mono. Actually if one googles "depigmenting agents" it's clear the dermatological profession uses that term to refer to all skin lightening items even the mild ones like licorice, bearberry, collectively:
http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1068091-overview

To me, anyone impying that AMHD having a Skin Lightening category under Health & Wellness sheds a dim light on darker skins just doesn't see the light.

I wondered why there's no comparable cat for tanning since its pretty obvious that more Americans and Europeans TAN than LIGHTEN; the reason must be tanning is the cancerous option and just as well, tanning whether intentional or inadvertent chronic actinic damage, often results in the desire to lighten up darkened area whether they be small dark solar lentiges on the face, neck, chest, hand etc, or large darkened areas on the face, neck, chest, hands, etc :)

Well it remains a fact, millions more people are tanning than "lightening" yet no one tells/asks those tanners (paraphrasing) "Why can't you just love the skin you're in?"
I do agree with the reminder but not with the casting of judgment implied with that tone when used in context of an answer to a question about the nature of skin lightening products, nor the lack of reciprocity with tanning, esp when one considers most skin lightening endeavors are to some extent a wellness response following somewhat repentant excess sun exposure in one's youth.

Since you mentioned Fair & Flawless prices, yes the starter kit is $180 yes perhaps harsh skin lightening critics are are onto something - since skin lightening is highly elective, like most any non-surgical cosmetic mod, these companies likely see the opportunity to prey on desperation and so especially the overpriced ones are more bold-faced about being most concerned with lightening up our wallets.

Skin lightening products are all about business. Most are generally compounds of various ingredients, only a portion of which may be scientifically proven, while the rest are all myth-based, or simply natural ingredients added to raise the product's 'naturality' level.

On top of that, they provide unpredictable results, don't work for everyone, nor are they FDA approved. Price and demand also plays a role; it's rare that you see any commercial brand lightener sold for less than $30, therefore the price plateau's as such.

I loved this read -- I would love to be part of ur Earth Empire!

On the area of "depig" I think people are under the false impression that term implies total vitiligo stripping of color like with mono. Actually if one googles "depigmenting agents" it's clear the dermatological profession uses that term to refer to all skin lightening items even the mild ones like licorice, bearberry, collectively:
Skin Lightening and Depigmenting Agents: eMedicine Dermatology (http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1068091-overview)

To me, anyone impying that AMHD having a Skin Lightening category under Health & Wellness sheds a dim light on darker skins just doesn't see the light.

I wondered why there's no comparable cat for tanning since its pretty obvious that more Americans and Europeans TAN than LIGHTEN; the reason must be tanning is the cancerous option and just as well, tanning whether intentional or inadvertent chronic actinic damage, often results in the desire to lighten up darkened area whether they be small dark solar lentiges on the face, neck, chest, hand etc, or large darkened areas on the face, neck, chest, hands, etc :)

Well it remains a fact, millions more people are tanning than "lightening" yet no one tells/asks those tanners (paraphrasing) "Why can't you just love the skin you're in?"
I do agree with the reminder but not with the casting of judgment implied with that tone when used in context of an answer to a question about the nature skin lightening products, nor the lack of reciprocity with tanning, esp when one considers most skin lightening endeavors are to some extent a wellness response following somewhat repentant excess sun exposure in one's youth.

Since you mentioned Fair & Flawless prices, yes the starter kit is $180 yes perhaps harsh skin lightening critics are are onto something - since skin lightening is highly elective, like most any non-surgical cosmetic mod, these companies likely see the opportunity to prey on desperation and so especially the overpriced ones are more bold-faced about being most concerned with lightening up our wallets.

LOL! About my Emipre.:D

Ok, thanks for explaining GB... I thought that 'depig' only meant the vitiligo treatment that must not be named. Lol Seriously though.. one of my teachers had and a cousin has vitiligo and I can't even imagine what that's like. It's great that there's a treatment to finish what the body starts but I cannot fathom intentionally putting one's self in that state.:(

Re:suntans

ITA, in my experience tanning/sun damage is much more widespread, esp where I'm from. Everyone needs to use a good sunscreen, period.

When I was younger, sunning laying out was part of socializing and relaxing... also a cheap way to change my look the sun is almost always available. It's the path of least resistance, esp in CA. lol

It became a cycle because the tans faded, the patchiness returned (often worse because the dark bits only get darker and it's evident when the new tan has faded... Not sure if it makes sense but there's:

Permatan: usually on forearms, hands, back of neck, facial areas but it depends on clothing and exposure patterns

Fresh tan: can temporarily give a glow and more even appearance but fades

Natural base color: areas never-to-rarely exposed


And it's back for another hit of sun. I even considered going to salons but honestly feared that I'd be laughed at for already being 'black' enough. Soon after I actually met an African American girl who used tanning beds to even her skin and get a glow. That was my 'green light'.

As you know GB, My eye is very much trained to a darker look. Remember the photo I posted of Sanaa Lathan and Gabrielle Union? Lol. If I could wiggle my nose and magically change to one,

http://alllayedout.com/Images/Animated_Images/graphics/bewitched.gif

I'd pick G.U. (though I suspect that she too tans to her sexy perfection.. lol)

... it's the same when I look at Destiny's Child photos (or any group of people)... my gut response is that I'd rather be Kelly's color than Michelles (closer to mine) or Beyonces.

I'm working on this. I don't want to blame my mom but I will.:p LOL! She's lighter than I am and has always gushed over and admired very dark skinned people. My darker-skinned dad(RIP) never commented about anyone's color either way. He would lay out in the sun because he thought it was healthy and undoubtedly for the great feeling. He was very into alternative medicine/health, spirituality/metaphysics, consciousness/self-help etc.

So somewhere he read that extra sun exposure is actually good for you. (Vit D, recharging esp for darker-skinned people, help the auric field.. all sorts of claims)

Even after one of his surgeries (he had health problems totally unrelated to sun & skin issues) he felt that laying out would help him heal faster! My mom almost had a heart attack @ him stretched out on the deck, stitches to the sun.

Anyway, I guess I had the Bizarro World version of what I'm learning many POC(people of color) go through. So I grew up thinking that being super dark was sort of special (thanks again mom!) and that looking like my mother or myself was boring & unremarkable.

***
I really think that humans are almost always doing something to alter our basic packages. Dental braces, hair and cosmetics, fashion, exercise, plastic surgery, piercings, and so on.

You'd have to be made of steel to not indulge or tinker on some level.

Also, BTW there are many European and American whites using the same products I'm using to dissolve & fade their permatanned areas too. A lot of people are waking up about tanning for aesthetic and health reasons.

I hope the future trend will be to sort of 'optimize' your basic look. So in my mind, that would cut down on dangerous levels of both bleaching and tanning.

Skin lightening products are all about business. Most are generally compounds of various ingredients, only a portion of which may be scientifically proven, while the rest are all myth-based, or simply natural ingredients added to raise the product's 'naturality' level.

On top of that, they provide unpredictable results, don't work for everyone, nor are they FDA approved. Price and demand also plays a role; it's rare that you see any commercial brand lightener sold for less than $30, therefore the price plateau's as such.

Yes, all about money. Just like cosmetics, 'cosmecuticals', and pharma companies.

Le sigh.

for the over 18 & of somewhat sound mind:


To circle back to what I posted last night.. IME, glycolic peels (at a spa if you're unfamiliar with them) make a huge difference in the look and feel of one's skin!

If you're slathering pricey brighteners (or moisturizers) on top of too many dead skin cells then it is wasteful and less effective... more costly.

Caveat: I'm not sure that this works for full-body lightening projects or not. Just the thought of head-to-toe glycolic makes me itchy and dizzy!

Also maybe do some soul-searching about exactly why you want to make such a change? In what ways are you expecting your looks & your life to improve? Learn about possible health risks associated with what you're using or thinking of using.. See a dermatologist/aesthetician/psychiatrist for an assessment and advice.

... IME, exfoliation (w/glycolic, loofah, mitts) is great. It helps to get a nice glow on it's own(sans lighteners) whatever color (or colors) you are.

And sunscreen sunscreen sunscreen!

are you using any peels or retin-a..something to really exfoliate & prepare the skin for the skin (& yes wallet)-lightening products?

I honestly don't think the f&f and othine would be working nearly as well if i didn't use the glycolic peels regularly. Peeling was a key part of the spa's treatment too.

*peeling
*hq/kojic or bleaching agent of choice
*sunscreen

it's synergistic. This system is definitely working on my tanned parts & melasma..i'm not sure if it's the answer for all-over lightening.

I just ordered 50% glycolic for my outer arms, back of hands, tops of feet that are resistant & laughing at the 35%. The 35% is working fine for my face and neck. My skin feels great and i'm sure it allowed the lighteners to sink in, bringing my face and neck closer to the color of my decolletage & torso.

I've quit the hq & sepi on my face for now so that my arms and hands can catch up

flash
http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/6251/picture5kk.jpg

no flash
http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/2091/oct15comp2noflsh.jpg

i'm so thankful that i haven't exposed my legs to sun in a while so i'll only have to tackle my knees (with tca 20%) and tops of feet. Hopefully the 50% gly will break up the perma-tan crud and let the hq & sepi do their thing.

They're very big on hq and retin-a regimens over on skincaretalk.com's lightening forum. I'm going to try it on my darker areas to see if it speeds the process. I'm too nervous to use it on my face also as i mentioned before, my face is light enough for now.

Keep in mind that we didn't get scorched overnight, so patience is key. Over there(sct) they're rec'ing 6 months(?) of hq & ra for lightening. I've only been at this since the beginning of august and i do see a difference.

Again make sure you're doing something to peel away the old cells and get the most from your pricey (okay maybe not othine and nadinola) potions. Hth!
Your skin look really nice,what soap are you using

Thank you! I've been rotating Likas Papaya Soap, Dove Sensitive Unscented, and Fair & Flawless cleansing scrub.

I just noticed that Dove makes an exfoliating version too. I'm going to try it.

Dove Moisturizing Lotion Gentle Exfoliating Beauty Bar Soap - 4.2 Oz, 2 Pack Buy Online (http://www.americarx.com/Products/38954.html)
http://www.americarx.com/admin/ARXPRODUCTIMAGES/Dimages/Dove/739094.jpg

Eggo, I like your after pic, you are quite light and it has an over-all evening too!

GG actually those were taken one after the other! Lol.. For some reason, turning off the flash is making me look light. I took them both during the daytime... indoors... same sitting.

Weird.

IRL, I'm somewhere between the two photos.

Well, the photo looks very natural, I'm hoping to achieve that by December... fingers crossed.

Great sunglasses, I should get myself a pair. ;)

Lmao...

Thank you! I've been rotating Likas Papaya Soap, Dove Sensitive Unscented, and Fair & Flawless cleansing scrub.

I just noticed that Dove makes an exfoliating version too. I'm going to try it.

Dove Moisturizing Lotion Gentle Exfoliating Beauty Bar Soap - 4.2 Oz, 2 Pack Buy Online (http://www.americarx.com/Products/38954.html)
http://www.americarx.com/admin/ARXPRODUCTIMAGES/Dimages/Dove/739094.jpg


Awesome!

I love your chest skintone its so creamy and delicious looking!

She has cute lips too.:)

Well, the photo looks very natural, I'm hoping to achieve that by December...fingers crossed.

You can do it! If I can turn back the clock a bit, anyone can. I was in deep denial and neglect. Lol!

Great sunglasses, I should get myself a pair. ;)

:p:D:cool:

^ those shades have got to be customs! :)

What are you two lighteners doing up so late?

On a twilight/vampire schedule!

awesome!

i luv ur chest skintone its so creamy and delicious looking!


She has cute lips too.:)

Thanks! You all know how to make an old lady feel great! :D

I hope to get my whole body the color of my torso... I'm still not sure if it's possible or not. I've had some serious tans over the years but if what I'm reading (here and @ SkinCareTalk) is true maybe it will happen eventually.

I wish other people would post more progress photos. There are a few more at SCT but it's pretty much tumbleweed-city visually there too.. . Excellent advice & experience but few photos.

Re: the topic and prices

The HQ and RA + sunblock regimen seems much more reasonable (even with the shipping fees) than some of these lightening lines (F&F, Makari etc).

I'm still laughing about what someone (GG I think?) said about the extra fancy Makari containers. I agree, they really could stand to tone it down.

They're, like, fit for the Pharaohs! Lol!. It's a psych thing though... some people really go for that.

Give me a simple tube or plastic jar with more product any day!

qn_u7OsJ8DA

on a twilight/vampire schedule!

http://twilightguide.com/tg/wp-content/themes/Aspire/graphics/cat/twilight-movie-posters/twilight-movie-edward.jpg:p

What are you two lighteners doing up so late?

Peace & quiet... children are asleep... If I don't watch the clock, it's easy for me to read, YouTube, or look at forums until 3 or 4.. then of course I'm extra wrung out the next day.:o

He he...

Fit for the Pharaohs jars indeed. When someone mentioned they saved their makari jar, it reminded me of how I saved mine too. I think I threw only one in the trash so far and wiped it clean, I wasn't sure what to do with them... keep them as souvenirs? Pour some Jergens lotion in them, repackage them, and regive as gifts? I don't know? So pretty and are a waste once your finished with it a month later. I was wandering if I can recycle them?

Probably can't recycle unless you can separate the plastic part from that clear frosted glass.

If you make your own creams you can use the jars and bottles as your containers... if its nothing that would oxidize like hq or kojic.

probably can't recycle unless u can separate the plastic part from that clear frosted glass.

if u make ur own creams u can use the jars and bottles as ur containers... if its nothing that would oxidize like hq or kojic.

Good point. I might as well save the previous jars, sterilize them, and use them for later use like an alpha-arbutin crème or something.

Funnily enough I put my jar out for recycling and the next thing I knew, it was in my bathroom. My Mum had retrieved it and was using it for one of her creams. Good job I had removed the sticker that said it was a lightening cream, eh!!

Funnily enough I put my jar out for recycling and the next thing I knew, it was in my bathroom. My Mum had retrieved it and was using it for one of her creams. Good job I had removed the sticker that said it was a lightening cream, eh !!!

Lol me mummy rummages through my recycling trash, looking for what can be salvaged too!

Jeez what's that about ? Sometimes it drives me mad because I hate clutter and feel so good when I recycle, give or throw things away. If my Mum had her way, we wouldn't be able to move for the clutter.

Lol... funny! Well, you all have me thinking that I should sterilize them now and put them to use, I hate clutter too soI might as well make use of them since they are pretty and sturdy.

So I have been here a month and a half, and come to see the ugly side of skin lightening products.

Some of these products often discussed are peddled by greedy, conniving members who created the websites, products, and reviews right here to cash in on those of us prone, out of our desperation for a quick solution, to fall for the professional image, raving reviews, and alluring promises. That's why they are priced so expensive like $100 5X gel or $100 10X gel, because here in our questions we describe what we are looking for and spend so much time talking about it, that it must be so valuable, the answers, the solutions by way of specific product recommendations. Do you agree with me?
By the way, $300 on makari got me nothing but awful breakouts for the past month. I've learned a valuable lesson from my new experience here. I'm going to save my money for school and other needs, instead of waste it through unbridled vanity on some of these expensive, spiteful, shady, products.

Thanks so much the genuine people here including Golden sis, Maharani, Eggo, lilgreg, artlady, Clough!

So I have been here a month and a half, and come to see the ugly side of skin lightening products.

Some of these products often discussed are peddled by greedy, conniving members who created the websites, products, and reviews right here to cash in on those of us prone, out of our desperation for a quick solution, to fall for the professional image, raving reviews, and alluring promises. That's why they are priced so expensive like $100 5X gel or $100 10X gel, because here in our questions we describe what we are looking for and spend so much time talking about it, that it must be so valuable, the answers, the solutions by way of specific product recommendations. Do you agree with me?
By the way, $300 on makari got me nothing but awful breakouts for the past month. I've learned a valuable lesson from my new experience here. I'm going to save my money for school and other needs, instead of waste it through unbridled vanity on some of these expensive, spiteful, shady, products.

Thanks so much the genuine people here including Golden sis, Maharani, Eggo, lilgreg, artlady, Clough!

You better not go anywhere golden, your post reads like a fairwell speech.. lol. I warned you about the makari with their prices and possible breakouts. That's why I went generic, far cheaper with very pleasant results. It's easy to get caught up w/ the testimonials and glitz of the advertising, not saying I won't try branded items again. But, this was what I came to realize that many lightening companies will charge $40-$200 for a couple of ouces of crème that costs about 5 bucks to make, and I always hate the feeling like I'm getting ripped off. If it's worth $5-$15 to get great results, then that's all I want to pay.

So I have been here a month and a half, and come to see the ugly side of skin lightening products.

Some of these products often discussed are peddled by greedy, conniving members who created the websites, products, and reviews right here to cash in on those of us prone, out of our desperation for a quick solution, to fall for the professional image, raving reviews, and alluring promises. That's why they are priced so expensive like $100 5X gel or $100 10X gel, because here in our questions we describe what we are looking for and spend so much time talking about it, that it must be so valuable, the answers, the solutions by way of specific product recommendations. Do you agree with me?
By the way, $300 on makari got me nothing but awful breakouts for the past month. I've learned a valuable lesson from my new experience here. I'm going to save my money for school and other needs, instead of waste it through unbridled vanity on some of these expensive, spiteful, shady, products.

Thanks so much the genuine people here including Golden sis, Maharani, Eggo, lilgreg, artlady, Clough!

Well no need to leave the forum just be more aware of the scammers and in my expereince the cheap hq based otc creams work the best

Golden_Boy,

I know exactly what you mean. I could have flown around the world several times with what I have spent over the years on useless, hyped up and overpriced rubbish! There have been a few "gems" over the years, but they have been the ones that have suddenly disappeared, for whatever reason. And funnily enough, they have always been the more reasonably priced. I wish I had your guts to say that I am giving up on this skin lightening lark and spending my money on more productive and fruitful pursuits. However clearly, I am more vain than you LOL.

Please don't totally leave. As you say, it is difficult to work out who is being genuine and who is here for their own means and it's people like you with your very honest opinions who will be missed.!

Maharani what you using now?
You sound like a lightening veteran like myself

Lighterr,

Have been using F & F along with makari. Both these products have given me good results in the past but at the moment Results are just OK. Last year I was much much lighter with other products but am unable to get hold of what I really want, which is dermabright by Rosa skin care.

Have also just received Tonique, but there seems to be a lot of drama around it, but will start to use shortly. Not necessarily expecting great results as a lot of these overpriced and much hyped products just DON'T do what they promise. I wish there were a law against false promises. I know that everyone has differing results but at prices like F & F and Tonique, surely it should be comparable to what say a good HQ product should produce. I would happily pay good money for something that really works.

Golden_Boy,
There have been a few "gems" over the years, but they have been the ones that have suddenly disappeared, for whatever reason. And funnily enough, they have always been the more reasonably priced.



lighterr,
Have been using F & F along with makari. Both these products have given me good results in the past but at the moment Results are just ok. Last year I was much much lighter with other products but am unable to get hold of what I really want, which is dermabright by Rosa skin care.
Have also just received Tonique, but there seems to be a lot of drama around it, but will start to use shortly. Not necessarily expecting great results as a lot of these overpriced and much hyped products just DON'T do what they promise. I wish there were a law against false promises. I know that everyone has differing results but at prices like F & F and Tonique, surely it should be comparable to what say a good HQ product should produce. I would happily pay good money for something that really works.

Maharani that is what these peddlers like f&f and tonique are feeding off, our willingness to pay a lot for something that promises really works. I am also a veteran and in all these year for me the only "gems" have been the original herbalinn formula and that lovely smelling rosa dermabright. Too bad the most cost-effective have become the most elusive.

f&f, tonique, makari can't possibly cost around $100-$200 to make a jar of cream and there is sufficient evidence to conclude they don't even contain what they claim to do, if you look closely at their ingredients lists, it's clear they are homemade and including the ingredients lists were made up. You have to look closely enough then you will see.

5XF Intensive Skin Whitening Gel Ingredients:
Pure Aloe Vera Extract, Purified Sea Water, Sorbitol, Glycereth-26, Corpus Crispus, White Tea Extract, Allatoin, Lemon Extract, White Ginger Extract, Carbomer –940, Wild Chamomile, Alpha Arbutin, SepiWhite Msh, Glycolic, Lactic and kojic Acids, tamarind extract, Malic Acid, Apple extract, Horse Chestnut, imidazolidinyl Urea, methyparaben, Fragrance. Sepiwhite MSH (Undecylenoylphenyl alanine) is a patented skin-whitening product of Seppic. Patent Numbers: WO03061768, FR2835252, EP1471881, US20051181192, JP2005521658.

New Extra Stength! Tonique 10x Intense Whitening Gel
purified sea water, aloe vera gel, ginko biloba extract, ginseng extract, Sepiwhite MSH, sepicalm VG, Sepinov EMT 10, extracts of watermelon, cucumber, mulberry, marigold & mulethi root, alpha arbutin, lactic acid, glycolic acid, vegetable glycerin, vitamin E, propylene glycol, natural fragrance



It's pretty obvious they are both just competing brands, versions of the same way overpriced, misrepresented long made-up ingredients list crap.

So the long and the short of skin lightening products, which Golden_Boy seems to have learned, is that something really works would not be overpriced. Because when it works we would naturally return to buy it.

It couldn't be more obvious f&f and tonique are poised to get big money from each one-time ignorant buyer. Those who say they work, you will usually find are also using other strong product which really work, like .1% retin-A, anyway.

maharani that is what these peddlers like f&f and tonique are feeding off of, our willingness to pay alot for something that promises really works. i am also a veteran and in all these year for me the only "gems" have been the original herbalinn formula and that lovely smelling rosa dermabright. too bad the most cost-effective have become the most elusive.

f&f, tonique, makari can't possibly cost around $100-$200 to make a jar of cream and there is sufficient evidence to conclude they don't even contain what they claim to do, if you look closely at their ingredients lists, it's clear they are homemade and including the ingredients lists were made up. you have to look closely enough then you will see.

5XF Intensive Skin Whitening Gel Ingredients:
Pure Aloe Vera Extract, Purified Sea Water, Sorbitol, Glycereth-26, Corpus Crispus, White Tea Extract, Allatoin, Lemon Extract, White Ginger Extract, Carbomer –940, Wild Chamomile, Alpha Arbutin, SepiWhite Msh, Glycolic, Lactic and kojic Acids, tamarind extract, Malic Acid, Apple extract, Horse Chestnut, imidazolidinyl Urea, methyparaben, Fragrance. Sepiwhite MSH (Undecylenoylphenyl alanine) is a patented skin-whitening product of Seppic. Patent Numbers: WO03061768, FR2835252, EP1471881, US20051181192, JP2005521658.

New Extra Stength! Tonique 10x Intense Whitening Gel
purified sea water, aloe vera gel, ginko biloba extract, ginseng extract, Sepiwhite MSH, sepicalm VG, Sepinov EMT 10, extracts of watermelon, cucumber, mulberry, marigold & mulethi root, alpha arbutin, lactic acid, glycolic acid, vegetable glycerin, vitamin E, propylene glycol, natural fragrance



it's pretty obvious they are both just competing brands, versions of the same way overpriced, misrepresented long made-up ingredients list crap.

so the long and the short of skin lightening products, which Golden_Boy seems to have learned, is that something really works would not be overpriced. because when it works we would naturally return to buy it.

it couldn't be more obvious f&f and tonique are poised to get big money from each one-time ignorant buyer. those who say they work, you will usually find are also using other strong product which really work, like .1% retin-A, anyway.


Yes I used dermabright when I was 15 and it worked great, but we still got it otc in Canada at all the black hair stores, if you want I can have my sis send you some, right now I'm using hq and I missed my own sefi white that I use on my legs:D

All so true. You all have good points. Companies taking advantage of what is in demand, whether they actually work or not. They could honestly care less about us, they only care about their pockets. Their products actually costs no more than what a good brand of lotion would cost, it's a billion dollar industry and they are all willing to rip people off by any means necessary... especially the ones who market their products as "natural" are among the greediest.

Last year I was much much lighter with other products but am unable to get hold of what I really want, which is dermabright by Rosa skin care.

Maharani are one of these it? It must work really good.
http://www.rosaskincare.com/
https://rosaskincare.plimus.com/jsp/buynow.jsp?contractId=2028948&paymentMail=N&paymentFax=N&paymentWire=N&paymentPhone=N&paymentPO=N&paymentBankTransfer=N
http://critiques.she.com/beauty/product/dermabright-intensive-brightening-serum/16136/

Well I am still here sis, guys, just discouraged at all the unofficial fighting going on here between Tonque and Fair & Flawful, of the most greedy, I tried them years ago when their gel did contain what seemed a strong acid, and I believe hydroquinone, now they have turned even greedier and it is so true sis they are saying their products are "natural" when their main ingredient seems to be Sepiwhite, there is nothing natural about it, undecylenoyl phenylalanine is synthetic! And 50% identical to the artificial sweetener, aspartame, also a phenylalanine.

And cancer experts say the phenylalanine molecule is the building block of all cancers.

http://www.wnho.net/1976_groliers_encyclopedia.htm

Both SepiWhite & NutraSweet are 50% Phenylalanine.

So I am strictly avoiding sepiwhite and I will heed SC's warning that high price tags are generally a sign of greed.

And spitefulness.

True. Undecylenoyl phenylalanine is synthetic. You can always go to Making Cosmetics, Skin Actives, or any other good place that sells lightening active ingredients and make your own at the percentage that you want. I get tiered of all the bickering too, as it is fruitless and only cause distraction of the real reason of why we should be here, to lighten our skin. Bro don't be discouraged.

true. undecylenoyl phenylalanine is synthetic. you can always go to Making Cosmetics, Skin Actives, or anyother good place that sells lightening active ingredients and make your own at the percentage that you want. I get tiered of all the bickering too, as it is fruitless and only cause distraction of the real reason of why we should be here, to lighten our skin. bro don't be discouraged.


Thanks sis, will try not to be discouraged!
I Just remembered, F&F 5X was $160 last month when I looked, now it is $100 and I believe will probably drop lower, it seems like bickering between F&F and Tonique is also mainly a pricing war of sorts. I still don't get it, who in their right mind would pay $160 for a jar of Sepi gel?

On Skin Care Talk the most frequent poster stated that it probably costs $5 to make their $160 jar of gel, so those websites MakingCosmetics and Skin Actives are so much better than rewarding con-artists amongs us, yes we are here to lighten, unfortunately some of us are being conned.

Thanks sis, will try not to be discouraged!
I Just remembered, F&F 5X was $160 last month when I looked, now it is $100 and I believe will probably drop lower, it seems like bickering between F&F and Tonique is also mainly a pricing war of sorts. I still don't get it, who in their right mind would pay $160 for a jar of Sepi gel?

On Skin Care Talk the most frequent poster stated that it probably costs $5 to make their $160 jar of gel, so those websites MakingCosmetics and Skin Actives are so much better than rewarding con-artists amongs us, yes we are here to lighten, unfortunately some of us are being conned.

Yep good old CAPITALISM at its best, isn/t this land grand. Everything we do is a virtual rip off, let me name a few

1.) go to the mall buy clothes from GAP, who gets it made in India or China for dirt cheap and sells it to us @ a ridiculous mark-up
2.) go to bank get a mortgage, uy the time you finish paying it off you could have have 3 houses, from the interest alone they charge

Where all products of our societies and these vendors just see a way to exploit us more:(

Thanks sis, will try not to be discouraged!
I Just remembered, F&F 5X was $160 last month when I looked, now it is $100 and I believe will probably drop lower, it seems like bickering between F&F and Tonique is also mainly a pricing war of sorts. I still don't get it, who in their right mind would pay $160 for a jar of Sepi gel?

On Skin Care Talk the most frequent poster stated that it probably costs $5 to make their $160 jar of gel, so those websites MakingCosmetics and Skin Actives are so much better than rewarding con-artists amongs us, yes we are here to lighten, unfortunately some of us are being conned.

So my guess is right. $5 products being marketed at high prices. Even a product priced at $40 or $50 is way overboard, I sometimes think what I could have done with the money I spent w/ makari within those 5 or 6 months.

Lightening companies should take off the "0s" and sell it for what it's actually worth. I could never make a purchase so high for only an ounce or 2. Only way for me to spend that much is if I purchased in bulk and had enough to last me for a good 6 months to a year. Well, for all I'm concerned, they all can keep dropping those prices until it hits at most $17 or less before I consider ordering.



Lighterrr, you are 100% correct. That's the word, Capitalism w/ a capital "C"... I always hated capitalism :( , because it's always about someone's greed and what they can con out of people. I always said to myself I would be the one to go to China and India and just buy to my heart's content of all of the name brand clothes manufactured at $1-5!! Well, I haven't reached that far yet, but in Ethiopia I purchased in bulk at the outdoor markets buying loads of namebrand clothes and shoes sent from china for about $1-5 actually! I was so happy... but I had to speak straight amharic, no english.

so my guess is right. $5 products being marketed at high prices. even a product priced at $40 or $50 is way overboard, i sometimes think what i could have done with the money i spent w/ makari within those 5 or 6 months.

lightening companies should take off the "0s" and sell it for what it's actually worth. i could never make a purchase so high for only an ounce or 2. Only way for me to spend that much is if I purchased in bulk and had enough to last me for a good 6 months to a year. well, for all i'm concerned, they all can keep dropping those prices until it hits at most $17 or less before i consider ordering.




I'm with you on that 100%, sis!
$40-$200 for a barely $5 jar of homemade basement or kitchen sink cream from their deceptive websites is pathetic.
We need to band together, send a stronger message we won't fall, any longer, for outrageous, overinflated prices and the constant plugging, only for the scandalous truth to be dug up much later on after wallets, bank, credit accounts are cleaned out.

Enough is enough!

We need to band together, send a stronger message we won't fall, any longer, for outrageous, overinflated prices and the constant plugging, only for the scandalous truth to be dug up much later on after wallets, bank, credit accounts are cleaned out.

Enough is enough!

These vendors including Fair Flawless, Tonique, Funkymomma have confirmed their daily presence on these forums, and confirmed they abuse the forums by peddling and providing false info here.

We as members just as well have every right to question all their false claims, and expose their trickery, Golden!

these vendors including Fair Flawless, Tonique, Funkymomma have confirmed their daily presence on these forums, and confirmed they abuse the forums by peddling and providing false info here.

we as members just as well have every right to question all their false claims, and expose their trickery, Golden!

Well I agree is very obvious who is supporting tonique on the site? I think that person should face the music, and they should not be excempted.

In my opinion ALL of the prices should be greatly reduced. I'm tiered of the guilty parties lingering around to market... all of this is giving me a headache. This week has taken so much rest from me. It is possible to have many of them to drop their prices, but the challenge comes with majority of customers and potential customers who makes purchase to complain, boycot, petition, and so forth in order to make the prices to take a major drop to a less offensive price. More than the 25+ members here though, there would have to be hundredas of thousands... lol.

yes i used dermabright when i was 15 and it worked great, but we still got it otc in Canada at all the black hair stores, if you want i can have my sis send you some, right now im using hq and i missed my own sefi white that i use on my legs:D

lighterrr, you don't mean dermabright by Rosa skin care do you ?

This is what it looks like

Order | Rosa Skincare (http://www.rosaskincare.com/order/)

If it is, you need to let me know!!

maharani that is what these peddlers like f&f and tonique are feeding off of, our willingness to pay alot for something that promises really works. i am also a veteran and in all these year for me the only "gems" have been the original herbalinn formula and that lovely smelling rosa dermabright. too bad the most cost-effective have become the most elusive.

it couldn't be more obvious f&f and tonique are poised to get big money from each one-time ignorant buyer. those who say they work, you will usually find are also using other strong product which really work, like .1% retin-A, anyway.


sweetcaroline, those two products (herbalinn & Rosa) are exactly my best ever products!

As for F & F & tonique, this is why it is so important that people share their experience. I know we are going to get those marketing people coming here to delibrately mislead us, but hopefully we wll be able to see our way to the truth. I give a vow now that whatever I say will be the TRUTH the whole TRUTH and nothing but the TRUTH. I will say that F&F has worked for me, but is not so fantatstic that it warrants that price. In addition to the fact that it does not ALWAYS work. The whole truth.

Maharani are one of these it? it must work really good.
Advanced Skin Lightener for Skin Lightening, Hyperpigmentation, and Skin Whitening - Rosa (http://www.rosaskincare.com/)
https://rosaskincare.plimus.com/jsp/buynow.jsp?contractId=2028948&paymentMail=N&paymentFax=N&paymentWire=N&paymentPhone=N&paymentPO=N&paymentBankTransfer=N
she critiques - beauty: Rosa Skincare DermaBright Intensive Brightening Serum (http://critiques.she.com/beauty/product/dermabright-intensive-brightening-serum/16136/)


Golden_Girl, that's the one!

Promise you, it worked beautifully for me.

Mahrini did you buy this over here? How quickly and how many shades?

Purchased it online from their website and had been using it for maybe a year or so. It was so good I even set up the standing order set, where they would send me a replacement product every month, so I would not have to keep ordereing. However for a year now, the website is permanently out of stock and I have been unable to locate an alternative source.

I think there was a member, perhaps Lighterr, who in another forum topic, was willing to purchase Rosa Skincare DermaBright in Canada, for another member, Sweetcaroline, who said Rosa and the Old Herbalinn were the 2 "gems" of all of the Skin Lightening realm. (See also the previous page of this topic)

Golden_Girl, that's the one !!

Promise you, it worked beautifully for me.

Let me know if your going to purchase it, I want to know your progress with it. It must be some really good stuff.

Golden_Girl,

Not sure if I will ever be able to locate it as I have been trying for nearly a year. The only thing that keeps me slightly hopeful is the fact that the website is still up and running.

I think there was a member, perhaps Lighterr, who in another forum topic, was willing to purchase Rosa Skincare DermaBright in Canada, for another member, Sweetcaroline, who said Rosa and the Old Herbalinn were the 2 "gems" of all of the Skin Lightening realm. (See also the previous page of this topic)


Just waiting to see if it is the same product. My fingers are crossed!

MAHARANI did you order the Rosa Dermabright, what is the website how much did it cost you and what size? It sounds like SweetCaroline and you really liked the Rosa.

This is where I am at now, two different colors on my face :(

http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/8302/0010000098.jpg

I hope the rest of my face catches up, my nose and around my browns got light but my forehead and under my eyes is look hideous right now. And my body is lightning faster than my face, why is that?

Hey buddy, people, avoid expensive products because even if they do "work", think of all that money over the yrs could be spent on a much more altruistic cause like feeding starving children - than looking lighter or whatever!

hey buddy, ppl, avoid expensive products because even if they do "work", think of all that money over the yrs could be spent on a much more altruistic cause like feeding starving children - than looking lighter or whatever!

That is true Ishq. I think about how costly it is, what I could have done with all of the money, and when I find out how much it cost them to make... :( :( much cheaper that it can be sold over the counter at walmart and imagine how much they could have made.

By the way I'm loving your picture, very artsy