I cannot find any state or federal law governing the rights of subletters that have not signed a written lease in the sate of California. My question is that my roommate and I have been sharing a 2 bedroom apt for a bit more (and by a bit I mean weeks) than a year. He has decided that for whatever reason he wants to live alone. He would not give me any other reason. He cannot give me valid reasons such as late rent payments or unsatisfactory living conditions or that I am a disturbance. (My areas are always clean and I leave very little or no mess in the common areas, and rent has been paid by check to him every month ("rent" always memoed on check) on time (and occasionally early). He's just decided he wants to live alone. He has gone on to tell me that I need to move and that he is my landlord and that I have no standing on the matter because he and I never signed a lease/contract. Prior to me moving in I had him talk to the landlord (both by his and my discretion) to insure that she would allow me to live there. She and I met, she gave the OK, and see each other regularly (she gardens at the complex regularly).

Point: Do I have any legal standing with above said? Additionally, I have received mail and packages at the apt for the entire time I've been there. I can also prove via cashed checks that I have never failed to pay rent nor has it ever been late.

Please help?
I thank you for your time and consideration!

Pseudo Subtenant in SoCal.

Hello Pseudo:

At the very best, you are a month to month tenant (most roommates aren't EVEN that). As a month to month tenant, he can ask you to leave with 30 days notice.

excon

Dear "excon"

If you are not a lawyer would you be so kind as to educate me on where you found this information?

Thank you.

excon is entirely correct. If you pay rent on a monthly basis but have no written lease then you are considered a month-to-month tenant. Either the landlord or the tenant (in your case the sublandlord or subtenant) can terminate the tenancy with 30 days notice.

You can read all about it at
http://www.dca.ca.gov/legal/landlordbook/catenant.pdf

Yes you are a very rude person and I can see exactly why they want you to move out.

You owe excon a apology for being so rude to him.

You asked for what was your legal status.

You are a month to month rental, ( if you are paying rent by the month, which you said where)

So when in absent of a written lease, you are on a rental based on the standard payment procedure. If you paid every week, you are on a week to week, if you pay by the month you are on a month to month.

So you are a month to month renter with no written contract.
And under real estate laws a land lord with a renter, that is not on a written rental or lease is on that. This is just common knowledge of anybody in the real esate or rental business.

So since you are on a month to month ( which can be even on a written rental) the landlord can always evict you with a notice equal to your standard rental. Some cities or areas require a 30 days notice regardless of the status of payments.

So if the person who has the lease, gives you a 30 days notice they can force you to leave.

So stop trying to be a perry mason with all of that bull with I received mail there, your agreement is with the other tenant, and you sub rent from him.

And since there is no signed rental or lease, you have no defense what so ever.

1) Excon, my intent was not to be rude in any manner and I appologize if I came across that way.
2) Friar, your version of rude is quite precise in my opinion. Asking excon to cite laws or rather to offer his sources was not at all rude. You are however entitled to your opinion.
3) Excon, I am not trying to find a loophole. My roommate and I are good friends. My main concern was that if he can evict me "because he wants to" than what's to stop any landlord from evicting a tenant who hasn't done anything wrong?

Navz22, one of the ideas behind a month-to-month tenancy is that either the landlord or the tenant can terminate the tenancy with 30 days notice, for any reason or even NO reason. That's why it's a good idea for there to be a written lease. This protects both parties and insures that the tenancy can't be ended early for any reason other than a violation of the written terms of the lease.

Oh and Lisa, thank you very much!! I appriciate your answer and the link you provided.

1) Excon, my intent was not to be rude in any manner and I appologize if I came across that way.
2) Friar, your version of rude is quite precise in my opinion. Asking excon to cite laws or rather to offer his sources was not at all rude. You are however entitled to your opinion.
3) Excon, I am not trying to find a loophole. My roomate and I are good friends. My main concern was that if he can evict me "because he wants to" than whats to stop any landlord from evicting a tenant who hasn't done anything wrong?

The reason why Chuck felt you were rude has to do with your giving Excon a negative comment. You might want to review the guidelines I suggested here:

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/feedback/using-comments-feature-24951.html

Excon gave you a factual answer. Therefore telling him it wasn't helpful could be considered rude. You were within your rights to ask for specific cites, but not give a negative comment.

So excon, Lisa and Chuck have given you the same, accurate info. To answer your last question the only thing to stop a landlord from terminating a tenancy whenever he wants to is a written or tacit lease. A written lease will specify the term of the rental. To terminate the rental prior to that end of the term would require some cause. But, without a written lease you are on a month to month basis. Therefore EITHER of you can terminate with one months notice without cause. Remember this is a two sided street. What if you were the one deciding to move out. You would be depriving the landlord of income.

Eh regardless of Friars opinion. (although I don't nessacarily accept it - he is entitled to it) Scott, thank you for your words. I wasn't aware there were rules governing freedom of speech. Regardless. I understand what you're saying with respect to it being a two way street. My roommate was more under the impression that he could x me out on any given day w/o notice regardless of whether I've paid that months rent (and he'd accepted it in the form of cashing the check). Additionally, I would give (and have in the past) anyone I was living with more than due notice that I'd decided to terminate my tendency (usually 2 months).

Hello again, navz:


1) Excon, my intent was not to be rude in any manner and I appologize if I came across that way.

K.


3) Excon, I am not trying to find a loophole.

I didn't say you were. You asked for the law. I gave it to you.


if he can evict me "because he wants to" than whats to stop any landlord from evicting a tenant who hasn't done anything wrong?

Nothing, other than 30 days notice!

Apparently, because you're clean and get mail, you think you have a right to stay. Maybe you can explain how you came about that information.

excon

Scott, additionally I read your comments "guidelines". And I stick by my initial comment to excon. He did not prove that it was factual. I specifically asked at one point if I had any legal standing. Regardless of the answer (be it that I do or do not) it would have been most pertinant to cite something. My negative comment was not a slam or to offend anyone. It was solely that his answer did not help me legally or point me in any direction. I am thankful for his opinion, and for him responding so quickly.

excon
My lawyer actually.

Hello again, navz:

Fire that lawyer.

excon

excon. You can't fire military lawyers unfortunately. 1) They're free. 2) The military appoints them to you with an "end of discussion" type authority.

WHOA! You will not find a greater free speech advocate then myself, But maybe you should understand it before you wrap yourself in it. There has ALWAYS been rules governing freedom of speech. For example, libel and slander laws, you can't shout fire in a crowded theatre, among other restrictions. That being said, there is NO issue of free speech here. The post I linked to are suggested guidelines for using the comments feature. I specifically referred to them as that, not as "rules". Finally, if you specifically refer to the First Amendment of the US Constitution, it has no application here.

If your roommate is just telling you to move out tmmw (something you did not specify in the OP), then he is overstepping his bounds. He can't claim to be your landlord and not adhere to certain general rules and accepted practices. Yes he can terminate the arrangement at any time, but he has to give you one months notice before requiring you to move out.

Military, eh? *sigh*

Find a new roommate and give your friend his space, he hasn't resorted to tossing your stuff out on the street, reporting you to his or your XO, or anything else that would be considered worse. Talk to him about maybe have an extra payday or so to find another roommate or place of your own, sounds iike he's being pretty upfront and honest with you.

I know that from your point of view it's a shady situation, but just get it taken care of WITHOUT any legal action, just my honest opinion.

Hello again, navz:


I am thankful for his opinion, and for him responding so quickly.

Had you thanked me initially, nobody would have thought you rude. You only thanked me after you were taken to task.

Your response was rude. As noted, you are free to be rude, but let's call a spade - a spade.

excon

Sentra: 1) Why the "sigh"? 2) What would he report to my XO that wouldn't make my xo laugh in his face?
Excon: 1) Again, versions or perceptions of "rude" apparently differ widely. And if you'd like to call a spade a spade as you so aptly put it, enlighten me as to why I would even bother considering an answer from someone with a screenname such as "excon"?
2) I did thank you, regardless of whether it was after the fact.

I sigh because I've seen what can happen to roomies in the armed forces, and I am only giving possible scenarios and trying to get across that the situation you are in isn't as bad as it could be, that's all, really.

No offense navz22, but we here at this site are giving advice because we want to help those who ask for it, lets not make this a battle over something that has nothing to do with your dilemma, which I hope becomes remedied.

I agree with you Sentra. He is not in the armed forces. I think the whole issue with him now that I think about it is that he wasn't allowed in to any branch due to his eye sight (even though it was corrected) and now he resents me for being a high ranking naval officer. I'm not trying to turn this into a battle by any means, I just got back from one! (One's enough lol). I do appriciate everyone's comments and opinions, and Lisa's link to the California tenants and rights booklet.

Scott, additionally I read your comments "guidelines". And I stick by my initial comment to excon. He did not prove that it was factual. I specifically asked at one point if i had any legal standing. Regardless of the answer (be it that I do or do not) it would have been most pertinant to cite something. My negative comment was not a slam or to offend anyone. It was soley that his answer did not help me legally or point me in any direction. I am thankful for his opinion, and for him responding so quickly.

Its not up to him to prove its factual. Your OP did not asked for specific cites. Your negative comment was predicated on the basis that he didn't give you what you didn't ask for. Not on whether the info was factual or not (which it was).


You can't fire military lawyers unfortunately
Ok, so you can't fire him. But you can tell him to not give you incorrect advice. I would assume that military lawyers are well versed in military law. I would NOT assume they are well versed in civilian law. There are so many different aspects of law, that one can't assume one lawyer would know answers out of their field.

If this military shyster told you that your roommate/landlord can't terminate the arrangement without cause, then he gave you incorrect advice. Bottomline, in the absence of a written lease, an occupancy arrangement is considered on a month to month basis. Either party of that arrangement can terminate the arrangement with one months notice. So I hope you are looking for new digs. Maybe the shyster will let you move in with him.

HAHA Scott. Thank you. Very kind of you. Thank you again for your advice and opinion (and facts as we've now come to understand them) Much appriciated sir.

I agree with you Sentra. He is not in the armed forces. I think the whole issue with him now that I think about it is that he wasn't allowed in to any branch due to his eye sight (even though it was corrected) and now he resents me for being a high ranking naval officer. I'm not trying to turn this into a battle by any means, I just got back from one!! (One's enough lol). I do appriciate everyones comments and opinions, and Lisa's link to the california tenants and rights booklet.


Welcome back to the mainland, then, and quite honestly, tell those people over at JAG to stuff the cockamamy jargon into an F-17. Sounds like they are giving you the runaround.

LOL. Sentra. There's too many politics in the mil to fit into an f-17!

That's what we have aircraft carriers for. :)

Lol

Sentra: 1) why I would even bother considering an answer from someone with a screenname such as "excon"?

Hello navz:

I don't why you would bother to ask a question and then denigrate those who took the time to answer you, even if they had names that you don't like. I don't know what motivates you, at all. You asked a question. I answered. You insulted me, and you continue to do so.

You think you have permission to insult me, because you don't like my name. Where did you make that up from? In truth, Sir, you do not! In polite society, people don't do that. I wouldn't think I'd have to point that out to an, apparently, educated man. Bummer. I'm wrong.

You wanted to know the law. I taught you some manners instead. What do you want to bet, that you haven't yet, learned them?

excon

Dear Sir,

I never insulted you. If you took it as an insult, my sincere apologies.
I do not need anyone's permission to insult anyone. I am aware you answered my question, however put yourself in my shoes. Someone that I don't know with a name such as yours gives me information and I'm supposed to believe it without questioning the source? That would be quite foolish on my part sir. Furthermore, I don't care about "polite" society or "politically correct" society. Both of those terms as I see it go against everything I fight for, both here and overseas. [Freedom]. You claim to have taught me manners, but failed to recognize that manners are not the same for everyone. What one person may consider proper manners may be quite rude to someone else, due to a variety of different reasons (i.e. culture, tradition, religion). So with respect, I will tell you that I appriciate your attempt to "teach me manners" but would rather you keep them to yourself as I do not plan on adhering to or adopting any of them. Finally, I would not make light of my education. I possess three degrees from a very distinguished university, and am one of the youngest officers in the Military. My education, is well above the competition for lack of a better term. Thank you.

Well lets see now. The lowest officer title in the Navy is Ensign. Graduates from Annapolis enter the Navy at that rank. Assuming most who enter Annapolis do so from high school, they would graduate at 22 or 23. So being "one of the youngest officers in the Military", could simply mean that you are a recent grad from Annapolis. I notice that twice now you referred to being an officer but withheld the exact rank. Just something to make me go hmmmm.

I can see that a "politically correct society" as going against what you perceive to be fighting for. But a "polite society" is simply a matter of being respectful of others. And that shouldn't go against anything that you fight for. My understanding of military training is that one is taught respect as a matter of course. Even to the point where you respect things that have not earned it.

It may just be me, but looking back over this thread, I detect a certain degree of arrogance in you. One of entitlement. Just because you do things in a way you consider right, you seem to thinkl that entitles you to certain considerations you may not be entitled to.

Let me try to make light of this: Keep on with this thread, as long as it can be done and hashed out in a mudpit.

:)!

Scott,
I am not entitled to anything that anyone else isn't. Don't let arrogance be confused with confidence. In the military we are taught to respect yes. We are not however taught to respect people that haven't earned it, but to respect the uniform they wear, should they. I always withhold my rank unless the situation calls for it. I am not a recent grad, I graduated quite a few years ago in fact.
To Everyone: I did not intend for this post to become a pissing or ing contest, or a contest about whose is bigger. I believe that everyone, including myself is to blame. For that fact, I can only take account for myself and once again say thank you to those of you who provided answers backed by facts, and additionally, thank you for your opinions.

Keep us up to date on the living situation, we'll be here.