Want to add a sub panel so I can power up my new addition. Can you help?

Why did you start a new thread. Stan's question still stands.

What do you want help with?

You have to tell us more.

Things like how big is your present panel? Where is it located. How far is it from the addition? Do you have any open spaces. Its quite possible that you don't need a sub panel. Sounds like you need about 4 circuits. Quite possible 4 circuits could be added to present panel. If you are planning on doing this yourself, do you have the basic understanding of residential wiring?

Why did you start a new thread. Stan's question still stands.

What do you want help with?

You have to tell us more.

Things like how big is your present panel? Where is it located. How far is it from the addition? Do you have any open spaces. Its quite possible that you don't need a sub panel. Sounds like you need about 4 circuits. Quite possible 4 circuits could be added to present panel. If you are planning on doing this your self, do you have the basic understanding of residential wiring?

Stan, I'm new to this web site. Hope I'm doing the right thing. My current panel box is just outside of the new addition. The subpanel will be located just next to it. My questions are 1)what gauge wire do I use to connect the two boxes, and how do I decide what type/size of box do I need.

Why did you start a new thread. Stan's question still stands.

What do you want help with?

You have to tell us more.

Things like how big is your present panel? Where is it located. How far is it from the addition? Do you have any open spaces. Its quite possible that you don't need a sub panel. Sounds like you need about 4 circuits. Quite possible 4 circuits could be added to present panel. If you are planning on doing this your self, do you have the basic understanding of residential wiring?

Mr. Stroud, I'm new to this website and am having a bit of trouble figuring it out. Otherwise, I'm OK.
I have a panel box with no room for extra breakers. I need to add a subpanel. I need to know what gauge of wire connects the two. And, I need to know how to decide what size/type of box to buy.

Why did you start a new thread. Stan's question still stands.

What do you want help with?

You have to tell us more.

Things like how big is your present panel? Where is it located. How far is it from the addition? Do you have any open spaces. Its quite possible that you don't need a sub panel. Sounds like you need about 4 circuits. Quite possible 4 circuits could be added to present panel. If you are planning on doing this your self, do you have the basic understanding of residential wiring?

I need to know the gauge of wire to connect the two boxes, and I don't know how big/band of box to buy.

Why is everyone beating around the bush. This guy wants: I want to add a sub panel. It will serve my home's new addition of a bedroom, den, two bathrooms, laundry and closet. Help

OK, the right answer is to do a load calculation, but I'd bet this would suffice:

One 15-20 amp circuit for all the lighting, ceiling fan in bathrooms)
One 20 Amp circuit bedroom (hairdryer, tv)
One 20 Amp circuit Den (Entertainment center, no treadmill)
Two 20 Amp circuits (1 for each bathroom receptacles only) (Given)
Three 20 amp services for laundry (washer, dryer, recep (Iron etc)
(Washer circuit Given)

Added: One smoke detecter circuit
... Electric dryer not included
... Given's added

Assumes no electric water heater.

Your box can be bigger than the serving breaker. i.e. you can hve a 60 A breaker in the main panel, sized for 60 A and a 125 A sub-panel with a 125 A main breaker.

In order to size the panel, you'd have to look at what loads can be on simultaneously. I'd be inclined to go with 100 A with a 125A panel with a 125 A main breaker. That 125 A main breaker will act as a disconnect for the addition.

Remember that the feeders need to be 4 wire and neutral and ground need to be separate at the sub-panel. You will likely need to purchase a ground bar kit for the panel. And the neutral/ground bond screw will need to be removed.

What's The distance from the main panel to the proposed location of the sub-panel?

I missed a couple of things:

Is dryer electric? I assumed gas dryer and that the washer requires a separate circuit. No uncommon now.

Wired smoke detector regulations. The bedroom I know requires one. The laundry may.

It requires a separate circuit.

You might also consider a separate circuit for the hall receptacles and one other lighting circuit. This could be hall receptacles and hall lighting together. The reason is the vacuum cleaner and if the other lighting circuit developed a fault. You could combine the hall lighting and the hall receptacles.

You need to plan that the vacuum cleaner cord will reach down any hallway without moving firniture, etc. In commercial spaces I've seen hall circuits shared with inner rooms with disastrous results. Commercial space almost always has separate circuits for lighting.
So, let's say your ironing in the dark and the iron develops a fault. Your in the dark with a hot iron.

Lighting circuits in general don't pop breakers very often and you really don't want to be in the dark.

If this is a nanny flat or similar, consider emergency lighting. You can just run the wires, no need to purchase the emergency lighting system now.

Don't forget low voltage conduits. The orange ones. 2 RG-6's, and 2 cat 5's minimum for all but the entertainment area which needs more. Fiber is also a posibility. TV, telephone or internet is often needed together.

Wow, KISS, that was an excellent set of responses. Goes a long way to helping me meet my goal. The water heater and dryer are gas. The proposed subpanel is about 10 inches from the serving subpanel. I followed everything you explained except the orange low voltage conduit instructions. I'm not quiet understanding that. Again, thanks for your thoughtful response. Most excellent.

Mike

A couple of other things. I'll get back to wire size. There is no reason to use a main breaker panel, you can use a main lug panel (No main breaker). Use conduit between the main and the sub and use THHN or THHN/THWN wire between the panels. Use colored electrical tape and mark the ends red/wht and green. Usually the wire comes in black.

The NEC code can be read online for free after registering. Go to Electrical & Lighting at the top left of this page and see one of the stickies.

Conduit size is based on fill. I'll get back to on wire size.

I'll also recommend running 12/3 for the switch loops. This will allow future additions of timers and other home automation controls because a neutral will be available at the switch.

This is a low-voltage raceway HomeTech Solutions: SCx4X1C - Resi-Gard Flexible Raceway - Carlon C/o ElectriGrou (http://www.hometech.com/hts/products/wiring/raceways/cn-scx4x1.html)

There are lots of products and explainations on HomeTech Solutions: Whole House Wiring Products, Automation & Security (http://www.hometech.com)

So, the suggestion is in addition to the cat5's and RG-6's at each location, run a low voltage conduit for expansion.

For the entertainment center, consider running two.

Example of additional stuff might be IR control of stereo equipment.

Do a "google search" on "structured wiring" and hopefully you'll see that the low voltage stuff matters just as much as the power wiring. The idea is to have ALL of the low voltage stuff terminate at one point in the house. This can mean, coax, fiber, telephone, home automation, doorbell etc.

What's not covered, but possible is:

Lighting controllers: In this case the lights have a home run to a lighting controller in a central location. That controller is capable of dimming etc.

Low-voltage controllers are placed at the room entrance and they can implement scenes like Gaming, theater for the den or clean, bedtime for bedrooms.

Thus having a low voltage conduit near the light switch to be used at a future date increases the possibilites.

Lutron Electronics, Inc. - Dimmers And Lighting Controls (http://www.lutron.com) has such systems. They can also control drapes and shades.

Initially, I described a minimum system and now I've described some useful additions. This time I explained the low voltage stuff a bit better and offered some other places to get some information on "structured wiring".

Burgler alarm is yet another low-voltage system that can be considered. Even a remote doorbell.

I think that this addition is substantial and warrents a design approach I like to use:


What if I had all the money in the world, what would I like?
then what's required? (e.g. 20 A in bathrooms)
then what do I need?
What would be nice: (e.g. 12/3 for switches, low voltage conduit, burgler)
What I don't care about?: (home automation pads, drapery control, lighting control panel)
What might increase the value of the home when I sell?
(low voltage conduit, security wiring, low voltage conduit to handle drapery/shade controls)
What can I afford? A hole with a fish string doesn't cost much.

Conduit does, but it may make sense for the low voltage stuff.
Satellite required multiple RG-6 feeds and telephone.
Cable requires RG-6 and telephone
Fios requires internet and RG-6




Actually in the future we may have glass whose transparency is electrically controlled and affordable. Shade controls can save energy, but probably don't have a decent payback period. Handicap things can sure help.

Even drilling some holes that can be used to fish wire and leaving fishing wire in place would be a great help even if you don't use it. Get the drift?

#4 copper with #8 copper or larger for ground for 100 A.