I'm a 29 year old gay man. I'm very out with my sexuality and comfortable with it. As open as I am with it, many people are surprised when they find out I'm gay. I've always been a 'guys guy', and fit in easily into straight circles. I'm grateful for my acceptance in the straight community, but its been a double-edged sword because ever since I was young, I found myself developing heavy crushes/infatuations with straight guy friends. Additionally, since I do have a lot of straight guy friends, my 'guys guy' demeanor has drawn a lot of gay behavior out of them. I'll admit, it's a turn on to see just how far a 'straight' guy is willing to take it with me.

About 2 years ago, I met a guy at work. I found him very attractive. We almost immediately became buddies. At the time he was engaged, and obviously quite intent on 'living it up' before he settled down. I gladly obliged. We spent plenty of wild nights at local bars and clubs. Generally, these were at straight bars, but a few nights he came along with me to some of the gay bars. He is a very open minded person. Soon, though, I started to wonder if there might be more to it. It wasn't long after that I kissed him for the first time. Soon after that I gave him oral sex. Two years later, he is married, and we are still very close. Not just physically, but emotionally. Almost not one day has gone by without seeing each other, talking, texting, or some type of communication.

We've become quite dependent on each other. We're both in stressful careers, and I think we both legitimately enjoy having each other just to talk to. But, it isn't just talking that goes on. Now that he's married, a lot of our time together is spent at his hosue. I come over regularly just to hang out/watch TV, etc. His wife routinely goes to bed at 9-10:00. Almost immediately after, he will start drinking. It's important to mention that most of the gay behavior I see from him happens after he's been drinking. This obviously isn't a coincidence, but I think a big part of it is having the 'excuse' to initiate the kissing, touching, and other things that have gone on between us. I've intentionally done my best to try not to initiate them, simply out of the guilt that it causes me.

What may look like the 'gay predator' situation I feel is actually the opposite. Because of my feelings for this guy, I often feel that I'm being taken advantage of. He knows how I feel about him, and I think he uses it to get the emotional rush that most people associate with having an affair.

My big question is WHAT ARE THIS GUY'S MOTIVATIONS?? I know that straight men pursuing sex with men is not terribly uncommon. But I also know my fair share of gay men that are married to women. It would take me hours to recount all of the flirty and suggestive texts and messages that I've received from him, and the actual encounters that almost anyone would categorize as gay, but I don't know if it would matter. Maybe he's more-or-less straight and just pursuing an emotional high from a gay man. Maybe he's more-or-less gay and just hiding behind a marriage to make life easier.

Thoughts?

Does not matter he is married, same advice, gay or not, he is off limits, if he wants to divorce and have a relationship, then he can

Have you heard of guys being on the down low?

That is what is happening here.

While this behavior was coined as being an African American experience,it happens with every race.

He will not leave you for her and he is using you for sex,and maybe even companionship but it is morally wrong and you know it.

I don't think its all that complicated...
I think he is just enjoying getting his rocks off,that's all!

Motivation is that he likes sex and maybe his wife is not delivering.

Married = off limits.

Gay, straight, black, white, old, young, doesn't matter. He's married, so stay away and find someone that is available to have a relationship to you.

His wife doesn't deserve this, does she?

I don't really think it matters what his motivation is.

I think that you like the 'thrill' associated with attracting guys that are not overtly gay and clearly he likes the thrill associated with having a bit on the side. Don't kid yourself and tell yourself that he's taking advantage of you. You have a choice, and you choose to participate in it. You continued to exercise that choice when you knew he was engaged and now that he's married.

I would say the same thing to you as I would to any woman that is having an affair with a married man. It's cheating - plain and simple - and you are both acting without integrity in this situation.

Hey, how would you feel if you were the wife in this scenario?

If you are as comfortable as you claim with your sexuality, stop this nonsense and find yourself a man who is available, and to whom you can genuinely commit.

Hi, deviover!

What sort of relationships do you consider to be okay between yourself and others, please?

Thanks!

Hey deviover!

His motivation is simple - he wants the kind os sex that a man can only get from another man. Pure and simple.

I'm a married bi male, not out at all. Love my wife, kids, grandkids, but also have a need for male bonding at times. I'm not going to get into a morality discussion here, I've reached an internal understanding and am comfortable with it. But any guy who has experienced M2M sex will tell you, it is a different animal from hetero sex. Maybe not better, maybe not worse, but different. Fills a different need. That is your connection to him - you, as a gay man, fill the different need that he has.

Now, the drinking part I think is just a rationalization for himself - an "out" so he could say "I was drunk and didn't know what I was doing". He's not comfortable with his dual sexuality, so he has a safety device to fall back on.

It is NOT your place to disrupt his married life - that is out of bounds. But you can enjoy the "alter ego" that he has.

Thanks, Woodsman33, I appreciated your answer. I think you're right, and your perspective gives good credibility. Its obviously EXTREMELY difficult to get an answer on something like this, because most that could answer it would need to be totally anonymous about it.

It's obvious to me that he wants sex, but I do also believe that emotional relationship with his wife is lacking. He complains about her a lot, and comes to me a lot for emotional love, too. If he only wanted the sex, I think I would have lost interest a long time ago... I can get that anywhere. But I truly value our emotional relationship as well. In fact, one time he asked me "If I wasn't married, and I was gay, would you be committed to me?" This is where the moral issue comes in. I know that disrupting a hetero or bi man's marriage to a woman is wrong. But is passively supporting a gay man in an unhappy marriage to come out and find true happiness wrong? I sympathize with his wife. I truly do. But if it weren't with me, I'm fairly certain that her husband would still be doing what he's doing with another man.

Finally ,woodsman33, if I may ask you a direct question. When you're having sex with men (which I assume you do at times), do you explain to them that you're bisexual? I would be much more at ease with my situation if my married man at least owned up to that reality, however, he continues to insist that he's straight... to the point that I think it's starting to sound ridiculous.

Tough questions there, guy.

Passively supporting a gay man in an unhappy marriage... I think that MAY be a stretch. You don't know he's gay, so making that assumption puts you in a bad position right off the bat. Lots of hetero marraiges are not worth the paper the license is printed on, but it's not anyone else's business to hasten their demise - unless there is abuse going on. The some encouragement to leave or get counseling is called for. I don't see that in this situation.

Yes, any partners I have know upfront that I am a married bi male. A lot of guys really get into that for some reason (I don't understand it myself). Insisting that one is straight when you are obviously not is just another self denial tactic. I'm more honest with myself than that.

If you want to take this offline, let me know...

If you want to take it offline, you will both need to have more posts so that you can send private messages. Email addresses and phone numbers are deleted from threads.

I think this is quite educational, and SHOULD stay public, personally.

Thanks for the tip. I was wondering if the conversation was getting too "deep" for some folks. Thanks.

woodsman33, I really appreciate your advice, and I'd take this offline, but I agree with Synnen, this may be beneficial to others online if kept that way, and I honestly don't mind who listens in.

One point I should mention is that he and I have never had actual anal sex. I have given him oral sex, but he has never reciprocated. This, to me, argues for the emotional side of our relationship... we've known each other for over 2 years and have grown close to each other more through emotional means, not physical. I will say, however, that I've never had a straight man that's so willing to kiss me at any time, tell me he loves me at any time, or that is so sure to send a 'good night' message to me nearly every night over the last 2 years.

I do know that this man loves his wife, but I unfortunately also see the pain in him for knowing that he's not living his life as honestly as he could. That said, I partially understand why. Without trivializing the subject, I honestly just want to know what this man might be thinking. Is he straight and just seeking emotional refuge with a good friend that just happens to be gay? Is he bisexual? Or is he gay, and truly living a lie but afraid to become the person that he really is? I feel very trapped in the middle. Any honest, non-judgemental advice would be appreciated.

woodsman33, I really appreciate your advice, and I'd take this offline, but I agree with Synnen, this may be beneficial to others online if kept that way, and I honestly don't mind who listens in.

One point I should mention is that he and I have never had actual anal sex. I have given him oral sex, but he has never reciprocated. This, to me, argues for the emotional side of our relationship...we've known each other for over 2 years and have grown close to each other more through emotional means, not physical. I will say, however, that I've never had a straight man that's so willing to kiss me at any time, tell me he loves me at any time, or that is so sure to send a 'good night' message to me nearly every night over the last 2 years.

I do know that this man loves his wife, but I unfortunately also see the pain in him for knowing that he's not living his life as honestly as he could. That said, I partially understand why. Without trivializing the subject, I honestly just want to know what this man might be thinking. Is he straight and just seeking emotional refuge with a good friend that just happens to be gay? Is he bisexual? Or is he gay, and truly living a lie but afraid to become the person that he really is? I feel very trapped in the middle. Any honest, non-judgemental advice would be appreciated.


He sounds bi to me, but only he knows for sure and it sounds like he's struggling with it.

If he loves his wife then he should be committed to her and only her. If he is gay then he should stop playing around and tell his wife. Heck, even if he's bi he should tell his wife.

Here's the dilemma as I see it. Being married means making a commitment to one person and only that one person. If you're not ready to do that then you shouldn't get married.

He's cheating on his wife, with you. That's not fair to his wife and it isn't fair to you. Also, if he's so willing to cheat on the woman he claims to love do you really think he'd be faithful to you?

I'm not trying to be judgemental, I just think that you deserve better, so does his wife.

Thanks Altenweg, I truly do appreciate the advice from you as well. Another thing that I haven't mentioned is that his wife is pregnant... which complicates things significantly. I truly don't have any interest in getting between him and his wife. I know that it's wrong and I don't to contribute anything to it. But, if he really is gay, and really just leading on a wife that shouldn't be led on (especially considering a child on the way), than the truth needs to come out. But I also understand the contradiction and strife that goes along with a gay man and his anxiety with coming out... I've been there myself.

Woodsman, you are upfront and honest with partners, and tell them you are married, and bi. Please excuse my ignorance here, but does your wife know?

Perhaps, if she does, and this is a situation that she has adjusted to, maybe some insight on that aspect may help deviover's friend.

I would think that the friend's wife is aware something isn't right. Call it instinct or intuition, but, for him to have that emotional side with you, deviover, which includes being such a supportive friend, and someone he can totally rely on, and he feels he can relate and trust you, would his wife not clue in here somewhere?

Also, do you get the impression that this is reaching a critical point. And, do you think that his relationship with his wife would improve, if you weren't in his life.

Or, do you think that he is still married, because of his friendship with you.

Jake2008,

I hear you... I'm fairly certain his wife knows that something's not right as well. Female instinct is strong... and she's always acted fairly cold towards me. But what is your point? Truth is, I refuse to be the one to blame in the situation.

I have a creepy feeling that I may in fact be one reason that he is still married... his 'escape' from a marriage that he doesn't seem happy in. So, which is worse? Continuing my relationship with him as it's gone, or pulling away and potentially being part of the cause for a divorce where a child's involved?

And you may be right - you may be the reason he stays, if that is the home situation. Sure puts you in an interesting position - leave, and he has nothing to offset the bad situation (if it is one), or stay and run the risk of his wife figuring it out and possibly ending the marriage. A very difficult choice to be sure.

One thing is for sure - you can't think for him, or make his decisions. All you can do is take the direction you feel is best, and let the chips fall, so to speak.

Would there be any benefit to ending the sexual portion of the relationship, and "tone it down" to a friends only arrangement? Or would your friend not accept that?

In all honesty, while I think you may be a source of strength for him, and being such a good friend, you may be alleviating some of what he is missing, that he should be getting from his wife. By that I mean, communicating to her and addressing his marital problems with the one he is married to.

Nothing will be resolved with their relationship, if they themselves, do not address it.

So, while you are a great emotional support for him, I think it is a place that will bring heartache to you, and no resolve to him and his wife. I suspected that she would be cold toward you as you said, and that is because she is in an unknown 'void'and does not know the true relationship, or nature of the relationship, between you and her husband. All she can do is suspect, and I doubt she suspects that her husband is bi.

She may resent the time you spend with him that he does not spend with her. She may resent that he can talk to you and enjoy your company, and he doesn't with her. She might be thinking that the two of you are hitting the bars and picking up girls. Nobody knows, we only can guess that she is completely in the dark here.

In a way, and don't take this wrong, you are contributing to the problems of the married couple, by being a third wheel so to speak. You didn't cause their problems, you are not responsible for your friend being bi, and you are not to be faulted in my opinion, for being a supportive person in your friends life. We should all be so lucky to have someone like you in our lives.

But, for what its worth, and if I were in your shoes, I would be inclined to move toward encouraging him to seek counselling, both for his own well being, and also to work toward resolving problems in his marriage. It may very well be that he will decide to divorce, and live a truer life, and a happier life for himself.

But, the important part here is that he needs to step up himself, and solve his own problems. Eventually, with or without your friendship with him, he will face some sort of showdown anyway, and in fairness to his wife, she needs to know the truth sooner, rather than later.

I'm sure I'm going to get slammed for this, but I have a problem with the statement: "Eventually, with or without your friendship with him, he will face some sort of showdown anyway, and in fairness to his wife, she needs to know the truth sooner, rather than later."

Yes, I agree sooner or later it will come to a head, but what is the point of telling his wife if the marriage is going down the dumper anyway? The way I see it, all that would do is turn his children, friends and neighbors against him - and for what? So he can say "I was totally and brutally honest with her? (and it destroyed my family?")

Sometimes, the price of "admission" is too high. Jake2008, you asked me if my wife knows I'm bi. She does not. It would destroy my family, both close and extended. In my opinion, too high a price. I do not let my "encounters" impact my family or schedule, I don't blow money on it. Family comes first, but yes, I have a secret vice. Better than drinking at the bar every night, or spending hundreds of dollars hunting or fishing for weeks out of the year, or secret gambling, or a drug habit, IMO.

But, this isn't about me, it's about deviover and his situation.

I'm trying hard to understand. Not in a million years would I judge you.

And pardon my ignorance here, but obviously this is something that works for people. An intact marriage, family, and a bi life that is secret, distinct, and apart from the other life.

I don't know if it is right or wrong, to live a secret life, or if this other life is what is making the married life/family, work.

Maybe we are just all evolving. Thinking differently, accepting options out of the box, I don't know.

I'm going to sit back, and just read the comments for a while, and hopefully you will post more and deviover as well.

Thank you for your understanding. Maybe the way I see things will help others, maybe not. Secret life? Yeah, I guess so. Is it making my marriage work? No, I have a strong marriage and family life. The bi life fills a need for me that I cannot get elsewhere. Now here's the kicker: I can't even consider having sex with another WOMAN. That, to me, is a complete betrayal. Does it make sense, nope, and I don't know why either, but that's the way I see it.

I'm sure I'm going to get slammed for this, but I have a problem with the statement: "Eventually, with or without your friendship with him, he will face some sort of showdown anyway, and in fairness to his wife, she needs to know the truth sooner, rather than later."

Yes, I agree sooner or later it will come to a head, but what is the point of telling his wife if the marraige is going down the dumper anyway? The way I see it, all that would do is turn his children, freinds and neighbors against him - and for what? So he can say "I was totally and brutally honest with her? (and it destroyed my family?")

Sometimes, the price of "admission" is too high. Jake2008, you asked me if my wife knows I'm bi. She does not. It would destroy my family, both close and extended. In my opinion, too high a price. I do not let my "encounters" impact my family or schedule, I don't blow money on it. Family comes first, but yes, I have a secret vice. Better than drinking at the bar everynight, or spending hundreds of dollars hunting or fishing for weeks out of the year, or secret gambling, or a drug habit, IMO.

But, this isn't about me, it's about deviover and his situation.

But it could impact your wife. What if you get an std? What if she finds out because one of your lovers decides to come to your home?

Don't you think those scenarios would be infinitely worse then just being honest with her?

Here's my problem with all of this, you made a commitment to your wife, just as the OP's lover made a commitment to his. That commitment should be honored, bi or not.

There are many bi-sexual people out there that choose one partner and then remain faithful to that partner.

Cheating is cheating. Being bi isn't an excuse to cheat.

The bi life fills a need for me that I cannot get elsewhere.

A question for you and the OP's "friend", what needs are your wives getting met outside the marriage? If they had a relationship with someone else (say bi or emotional), how would you react?

I'm sure I'm going to get slammed for this, but I have a problem with the statement: "Eventually, with or without your friendship with him, he will face some sort of showdown anyway, and in fairness to his wife, she needs to know the truth sooner, rather than later."

Yes, I agree sooner or later it will come to a head, but what is the point of telling his wife if the marraige is going down the dumper anyway? The way I see it, all that would do is turn his children, freinds and neighbors against him - and for what? So he can say "I was totally and brutally honest with her? (and it destroyed my family?")

Sometimes, the price of "admission" is too high. Jake2008, you asked me if my wife knows I'm bi. She does not. It would destroy my family, both close and extended. In my opinion, too high a price. I do not let my "encounters" impact my family or schedule, I don't blow money on it. Family comes first, but yes, I have a secret vice. Better than drinking at the bar everynight, or spending hundreds of dollars hunting or fishing for weeks out of the year, or secret gambling, or a drug habit, IMO.

But, this isn't about me, it's about deviover and his situation.

I'll not slam you, I'll simply discount you, as your opinions are colored by your lack of integrity. Did your wedding vows not include fidelity? Mine did. Then there's the whole std thing, and you CANNOT know anymore.

Let's stick to answering the OP here, please.

Let's stick to answering the OP here, please.

My comments were indirectly aimed at deviover, as well. Deviover, you have either enabled a failed marriage to produce a child or you're going to cause a marriage with a child to fail. Other people have said it, too.

If only for the baby's sake, BACK OFF

I posted this question for advice and input; not criticism, assumption, or accusation. I think we've carried on a very interesting and civil debate. Let's keep it at that.

Jake2008 does make a point, this is obviously something that does work for some people. It does, however, leave certain people in the dark which I also don't think is fair. I do, also, understand how strong the attraction (whether physical or emotional) between two individuals can be, and how those feelings can affect one's behavior. I'm just trying to understand what my role is in this situation, and whether what I'm doing is right or not, regardless of one's moral standpoint. Is not one's happiness and contributing to the happiness of others one of the most important lessons of life? To complete this debate, I do agree that the outcome of this situation rests on my friend's actions, not mine. He needs to own up to the life that he's living, and make some decisions to ensure that not only he, but also his wife to whom he owes obligation, is as happy as possible as well. What would all of those involved in this discussion say that those are? Please keep in mind the feelings and needs of ALL those involved.

I posted this question for advice and input; not criticism, assumption, or accusation. I think we've carried on a very interesting and civil debate. Let's keep it at that.

Jake2008 does make a point, this is obviously something that does work for some people. It does, however, leave certain people in the dark which I also don't think is fair. I do, also, understand how strong the attraction (whether physical or emotional) between two individuals can be, and how those feelings can affect one's behavior. I'm just trying to understand what my role is in this situation, and whether what I'm doing is right or not, regardless of one's moral standpoint. Is not one's happiness and contributing to the happiness of others one of the most important lessons of life? To complete this debate, I do agree that the outcome of this situation rests on my friend's actions, not mine. He needs to own up to the life that he's living, and make some decisions to ensure that not only he, but also his wife to whom he owes obligation, is as happy as possible as well. What would all of those involved in this discussion say that those are? Please keep in mind the feelings and needs of ALL those involved.

This is hard because the one that stands the most to lose is your friend.

If he chooses to come out, or to admit that he's bi, then he could lose everything, including the child that is yet to be born.

Your role in this is very clear to me. You are the man that is having an affair with someone that's married. Morally, that's wrong. He's not available to be with your, therefore he shouldn't be. You have the power to walk away, you don't have the power to make him be truthful, faithful or to accept who he is.

Personally, I think you deserve better then this. Don't you want to be with someone that can be with you openly and honestly? Someone that doesn't have to slink around behind his spouse's back? Someone that knows who he is and what he wants? Someone that can love you and only you?

This isn't going to end with everyone being happy, sadly, someone is going to get hurt.

I wish I could give you a quick fix but I can't, there isn't one.

This is all up to you, you alone can change your part in this.

Good luck. :)

I'm just trying to understand what my role is in this situation, and whether what I'm doing is right or not, regardless of one's moral standpoint. Is not one's happiness and contributing to the happiness of others one of the most important lessons of life? To complete this debate, I do agree that the outcome of this situation rests on my friend's actions, not mine.

Your role in this situation as far as I can read is as the other man. You are the "friend's" lover (oral sex is sex) and accomplice in adultery.

You seem to want to distance yourself from any emotion except happiness in this situation. Your happiness and his. What about his wife's happiness? What about the hurt and pain that finding out her husband was unfaithful could and would cause? Do you take any responsibility for adding to that?

You could take care of the entire problem by walking away and leaving him to his marriage and the mess he is making of it. But that isn't what you seem to want to read.

, I do agree that the outcome of this situation rests on my friend's actions, not mine. He needs to own up to the life that he's living,

Your actions will determine the outcome of this situation, not his. Granted he could be more open and honest with his wife, but you are the outsider here. You have the option of distancing yourself from this troubled relationship. Neither he nor his wife nor the baby do, if there is to be a relationship.

You don't want to hear this, but your lover has chosen someone else. You are still free to find someone, he thinks he has and it isn't you.

This is not criticism, accusation, or judgement. These are the facts as you have stated them.

Catsmine, I respect your answer. And I agree. You're right. Neither my friend, his wife, nor their unborn child have many options or decisions to make. With reference to Woodsman and some of the comments he's made, he has made it clear that he's happy in his marriage, and his encounters with men seem to be more temporary fulfillments than long-term nurturing. I say this to simply point out the difference between his situation and mine I, unfortunately have allowed myself to develop something more long-term with this man than even I wouldn't ask for myself. And, yes, he HAS made his decision. I do need to step back sexually from our relationship.

Deviover, I was thinking the same thing. Outside of what others think (and judge), you are correct - my encounters are on a more "basic" level, where yours seem to be emotionally tied. That is a fundamental difference, and not an easy one.

I don't have an easy answer for you - there are too many variables. I do think your "lover" is using you as an emotional crutch - and maybe a sexual one as well. The next move is up to you - maybe a withdrawal to a neutral "friends only" status would allow him to make a decision as to whether he wants to stay in his marriage or not.

I still maintain that it may be better to not let his wife know, if possible. I believe I've explained my reasoning in that regard. My opinion, of course.

I would let his wife know for this reason... STD's. THings like Herpes and AIDS have no cure. Many married couples assume there is no fooling around. Thus rely on birth control OTHER than condoms. THat opens up the unsuspecting partner to uncurable and possibly fatal infection.

Now if she knew about it and allowed it, and took precautions.. then that's their choice to make as it would be an informed one.

Hey,

Quite interesting I may add. Well here is my story in a nutshell. I met a guy 5 months ago. Married of course. I was so attracted to him the first time we met. It felt a very strong connection. I didn't know he was married until the second time we met. It was difficult for me but I knew that it wouldn't work out so I let it go but we kept seeing each other. The sex was great but something else was going on and for some reason I was developing feelings for him... but I could def feel that he was dealing with the same thing... We didn't act on it until he wanted more. It was very scary at first and morally felt bad for him but he was feeling very secure about his feelings for me. At this point he is getting divorced and came out completely to his family; it has been very difficult to deal with all this but its worth it. We love each other very much. He is struggling with stuff right now and I am being very supportive. I don't think a guy can be straight if they are messing around with another guys. I honestly think they are repressing themselves to conform to the standards which I understand since I was married to and I tried to be part of it as well. I didn't cheat on my wife but I did watch porn and I was getting involve with a guy emotionally which was not right. It is difficult to be gay. I don't care for the night life and that's what I think it will work for us. My thing is to be happy and as weird as it sounds I rather experience this with a man that being with a woman. Woman can't make me happy fully.
Well my suggestion to you is to wait or maybe ask him if he would be willing to change his entire life for actually be who he is. Although that can be very difficult to do. Hope the best for you.