I've got an apt. community of 134 apartments.

12 years ago I did the research and was told that with only 134 apartments, I was "safe" to use just one master key for them... but now I find that some of them are cut WAY too close to each other.

I found that there are some resident keys that open other apartments.

... so I'm considering re-doing everything.

The little research I've done tells me that 134 locks on 1 master IS safe... so I'm thinking that maybe our locksmith is just not using a good cut list (some are clearly just too close to each other).

So the bottom line(s):

1. Is 134 locks mastered to 1 master key safe if the generated cut list is good?
2. If so, do you know a reliable and nicely priced supplier? I currently pay $6 for the cylinder and $6 to have it mastered to my master.
3. Is there another cylinder that will fit into my Weslock housings? I don't mind changing the cylinder type if I can find a better deal with someone who can do it right...

Thanks for any input you can give.

I did some snooping. I have a friend who has been a locksmith for many years, but he may be overseas now.

Most locks have 5 pins and 5 cutting depths. From Weslock literature, I found that they have 5 pins, but I could not find the available number of cutting depths. Some yale cylinders have up to 9.

There's all sorts of masters. In an apartment complex, you could have one for the laundry for instance.

The cutting codes must be at least 2 apart.

14532 and 14531 isn't good. You must use 14533 or something else. 12345 is not a good combination. Neither is 55555 or 11111, so you have to be selective with you cutting combinations.

So, it looks like problem #1 would be to make a list of all the cutting codes and make sure they differ by two digits and I would guess 2 digits from at least one pin of the master key.

So, without knowing anything, that's my engineered reason.

For reference, I pick relativeky simple combo locks usually in about 20 minutes. No multiple turns.

Thanks, KISS. Yes and yes and yes. I used to master all our cylinders myself, but tired of it once we acquired the big community.

I think the problem is that the guy I've had doing the mastering has just gotten lazy and stopped keeping track of what he'd done prior... so there's ones that are cut too close.

Looks like 10 depths on the Weslock:
WESLOCK|0|.330|.156
WESLOCK|1|.314|.172
WESLOCK|2|.299|.187|.030
WESLOCK|3|.283|.202
WESLOCK|4|.268|.219|.060
WESLOCK|5|.252|.234
WESLOCK|6|.236|.250|.090
WESLOCK|7|.221|.265
WESLOCK|8|.205|.281|.120
WESLOCK|9|.190|.297
Are these separate buildings? How many buildings.
If possible have the first cut be the deepest, this will make it difficult for picking. Spool or mushroom tumblers will help.
With 134 Keys, someone could jiggle around and likely open at least 1 of them. Cameras, or Fake cameras may stop some one from trying each of the doors.

Are these seperate buildings? How many buildings.
If possible have the first cut be the deepest, this will make it difficult for picking. spool or mushroom tumblers will help.
With 134 Keys, someone could jiggle around and likely open at least 1 of them. Cameras, or Fake cameras may stop some one from trying each of the doors.

Does number of buildings matter? The 134 apartments are in 21 buildings... with each resident door being a private entrance.

It sounds like you're saying that 134 doors on one master is a bit "loose". What, in your opinion is a maximum number of doors to have on one master (provided that the list is generated with good software)? I have no problem splitting the units so that half are on one master and the other half on another master...

I was thinking they could be grouped, and have a Master opening several buildings, and the Grandmaster to open all. Maybe a different Manufacturer for half of the buildings, or a third(seven buildings 1 manufacturer) to reduce the number of possible key depth variations.

Hey strat:

You do you read the numbers. Is zero closest to the bottom of the lock and 9 at the grip part of the key?

What are the three sets of numbers?

Depth? Top of triangle ? And Part that hits tumbler?

I don't know the terms.

Kiss, I borrowed from here:
Lock Picking 101 • View topic - Pin Spacing Files (http://www.lockpicking101.com/viewtopic.php?t=5240)
Actually, some keys will have a 5 digit number stamped on key, 57227 for example, and each represents the depth, no code book needed to decypher.
If these numbers are on your locks, it is good to make numbers not readable, as someone could easily see 57227, and be able to make a key easily from that.

Strat:

Thanks. I'll check it out.

I will correct my above post, I mentioned the number was on the lock, it is NOT, it is on some manufacturers keys, and if key were left exposed, key can be easily duplicated, leaving yourself/someone vulnerable.
RickJ, do you have a book like this:
http://www.aerolock.com/master-key-systems/
Edit, just noticed no mention of Weslock

I have a book on how to master locks - which is how I did the initial mastering.

I use key blanks and do not put the cut codes on them... It cracks me up that some manufacturers (such as Baldwin) put the cut code right on the key!

Never put key codes on the key,or for that matter what they open. There can be indications on the key that they are masters, sub-masters or off masters, but not things like Apt 22 or building 3.

Never put key codes on the key,or for that matter what they open. There can be indications on the key that they are masters, sub-masters or off masters, but not things like Apt 22 or building 3.

I had a key in which I know a few codes. Exterior, external doors, masters, sub-masters and off masters were clearly marked. A general area was encoded,so was facility rooms, and construction cores. I never saw a cylinder removal key.

The building number/name might be oddly encoded and so was a relaive area. Key blank grooves were on the key itself. This was a Best lock system.

Kiss, I haven't been able to find a photo of the "Control" key, but here's the cylinder, it shows the piece that holds the cylinder in place:
Notes on SFIC (Best) Interchangeable Core Locks (http://www.crypto.com/photos/misc/sfic/)

That was sooo cool.

The control key is cut to operate the outer cylinder. Nothing special. As he said, it can be found out by using the upper most cut depths. It's a single key, but it's almost like a master. It just operates a second cylinder. Neat.

Thanks bunches.

Rick and Kiss, Have you seen this yet. You can change key quickly with this, pretty cool, Probably Expensive?:
Smart Key Versus (http://www.kwikset.com/smartkeyvs/default.aspx#/demo)

Battery? Energy Harvesting? RFID? Confused.

http://www.lockpicking101.com/viewtopic.php?t=29323

A little late and just an opinion, I normally have always done one master per building, in the long run if there is a issue with a missing master due to maintenance or other issues, not the larger issues. But again that is just me

Kiss, don't know why link is not showing for you, this is the link on the spacing:
Lock Picking 101 • View topic - Pin Spacing Files (http://www.lockpicking101.com/viewtopic.php?t=5240)
The Smart key link has to be clicked on, should be showing in blue?

RickJ, Look through here, starting on Page 5, Master Keying:
http://www.crypto.com/papers/mk.pdf

I am a locksmith and have done this many times before: the more 'individual keys' (called change keys) you have under one master, the less secure the system is. 134 changes under one master shouldn'd be an issue, as I recall weslock has 10 depths. The key is to keep the steps (variance between the master and change cuts) at least 2, and also to keep the MACS (difference of adjacent cuts on one key) within weslocks tolerances, usually 5-7 (i.e. a 1 cut next to a 9 cut is too far) depth measurments. If your local locksmith isn't keeping up your system, get a new 'smith. To be the MOST secure, group your buildings together so that you have maybe 5 masters and new changes under each. Shop your services around, I'm sure any locksmtih worth his title will be able to service your needs quite well. Look for someone who advertizes that he is an ALOA member, and ideally has a CML certification. What often happens with big rekey jobs is that the smith will just grab random keys from the bin and put the master under them, which leads to interchange (where keys that aren't supposed to work do). The biggest thing to remember is that pin tumbler locks (which you have) are inherently easy to manipulate with a little knowledge and a file (you already referenced lockpicking101.com, read up and you'll see why). It's not hard to get it right, just be aware that you have to pay for it.

Also buy a gun you can never be too safe if you have love ones you want them to be safe god bless

Yeah, an armed security team would make this condo complex more secure. Just have to convince the residents to pay for it.