Is anyone else sick of Sarah Palin talking nonsense? We all new she was at best semi-literate but her new comments about so-called death panels wanting to execute the elderly and disabled people are too ridiculous for words. What bothers me most is that not one prominent Republican politician has openly denounced her ignorant comments. A few conservative writers have mildly condemned her but she really needs to be told she is just plain stupid. Thankfully her approval ratings are sliding. I just hope she doesn't get the Rep nomination in 2012 or the Republican party is finished. I think she makes Dan Quayle sound like Einstein. I support Ron Paul - Mitt Romney for president in 2012.

I like Ron Paul also. I was an independent before the PA primary almost switched to republican to vote for Ron Paul but he was already out of the race by April 22nd so I switched to democrat and voted for Obama. Now I am an independent again.

I don't care what people have to say on Facebook and Twitter. That is the perfect soap box for her.

Ron Paul CANNOT win. He's too off the wall on his foreign policy, and will not get the votes.

I'd like to see Mitt at the TOP of a Presidential ticket.

As for Palin talking about "death panels" I point you to HR 3200, section 1233, subsection 5(b), the part about LIMITING care to patients by getting them to sign "living wills", DNR and DNI orders, etc. It specifically lists what treatments "could" (read "would") be limited.

After looking over section 1233 in its entirety, come back here and we can discuss whether Palin was so off-base or not in her claims that Obamacare seeks to limit care to the elderly. That is CLEARLY what it says.

Elliot

Earl, if you had said enough Keith Olbermann already I might be sympathetic, but Palin has been unfairly reamed in public enough to have earned the right to speak her mind.

ET Remember the Terri Schiavo fiasco. Maybe if she had a living will things would have gone a lot smoother. You had her parents saying no Terri would want to stay connected to the machines. Then her husband saying no she would not. If she had a living will none of that would have mattered.

That is why I have one. If I need a machine to keep me alive then I would consider myself dead. Pull that plug and let my family and fiends move on with their lives.

earl, if you had said enough Keith Olbermann already I might be sympathetic, but Palin has been unfairly reamed in public enough to have earned the right to speak her mind.

I can't believe that people actually get their news from the guy who was on sportscenter!! I love Lou Holtz but I am not trying to get my news from him.

Death panel or not, what exactly is the purpose of having that section in this 1000 plus page bill?

The ability to make a living will is already commonplace?

She calls it like she sees it, and apparently, many people agree.




G&P

Sarah rallies up the base but she holds no weight with anyone else.

Aparently, the "base" is enough to have Obama and congress slow down in trying to pass this bill.





G&P

Yup but not enough to win an election

Spit ; please read your living will and make sure it makes it clear that you do not wish to be unplugged from a feeding device for the purpose of slowly and agonizingly starving you to death.

That is the lesson of Terry Schiavo

ET Remember the Terri Schiavo fiasco. Maybe if she had a living will things would have gone a lot smoother.

Perhaps.

But it's NOT the government's place to get involved in those decisions.


That is why I have one. If I need a machine to keep me alive then I would consider myself dead. Pull that plug and let my family and fiends move on with their lives.

That is YOUR choice, and you made it for yourself. (My own choice would be different, but that's not the point.) Do you think that it is the job of the government to get involved in that very personal decision? I certainly don't. I certainly don't see any CONSTITUTIONAL basis for the government to be getting involved in it, and I find the idea of them taking it upon themselves to be very intrusive in my freedoms. Don't you?

Elliot

Yup but not enough to win an election

The base may be a bit larger than you think.

If there had been a strong conservative at the top of the GOP ticket in 2008 you wouldn't be saying "President Obama" today.

Sarah rallies up the base but she holds no weight with anyone else.

When the base is 60%+ of the population that seems to agree with her over OBAMACARE, rallying the base would seem to be all she needs.

Sarah has survived the political equivalent of a lynch mob ever since she was revealed as the VP nominee. She became the butt of every vile joke the Marxist media could come up with, and was lied about constantly, and there seems to be no end in sight.

Those who engaged in this behavior may come to regret keeping her name in the forefront of the political scene.

A very good question is why does the Left fear Palin so much?

And how can you justify saying that she shouldn't be able to speak her mind? She doesn't have 1st amendment rights, like you do?

GO SARAH!

Since we were talking about Terri Shiavo and living wills, the Terri Shiavo incident shows the importance of having a living will or one can be kept alive and given horribly painful treatment against their will when dying peacefully would be preferable. A good example of this would be the case of Dax Cowart. In 1973, he was severely burned in a propane gas explosion and was treated against his will even though he clearly expressed his wishes to die. He lost his hands, eyes and ears and burned over 65% of his body. He was forced to undergo horribly painful treatments such as being dipped in bleach baths while having dead skin brushed away and changing bandages daily. He survived and got a law degree, but still maintains to this day that his wishes to die should have been respected. I urge everyone to write a living will so you won't have to go through what he and many others have had to experience.

A very good question is why does the Left fear Palin so much?The left wholeheartedly endorses her for the republican ticket.

But it's NOT the government's place to get involved in those decisions.Hello again, El:

No, it's not - unless its run by right wingers who DO get the government involved, ala Terri Schaivo, when they don't like the private health care decisions made by its citizens.

Look. The people know the right wing can't be trusted...

excon

Gal no one is saying she shouldn't speak her mind. We are just tired of the inane drivel that comes out when she speaks. She is the butt of every joke because of that drivel.

She didn't want to be a lame duck Governor and that is a fine reason if she was in her second term. She couldn't even finish the first. So now she is like my idiot brother in law she wanted to be unemployed so she can spend her day on Facebook and twitter. Now that I think about it 5 schools in 6 years seems like she has a problem with finishing strong.

No one on the left picked McCain and her for your ticket. So what happened? If you needed a strong conservative ticket to win how did you guys blow your own primary?

Tom the medical world respectfully disagree with you about her suffering.

Medical News: Schiavo Feels No Pain - in Primary Care, Preventive Care from MedPage Today (http://www.medpagetoday.com/tbindex.cfm?tbid=753)

And that's a reason to starve someone to death ? Remember ;that was the ONLY life support she was on .

Anyway you slice it removing feeding tubes is immoral or are you saying the starving to death is a dignified way to go ?

The fact that hubby had a cool 1/2 million bank account waiting for him adds suspect motives to his decision.

Gal no one is saying she shouldn't speak her mind. We are just tired of the inane drivel that comes out when she speaks. She is the butt of every joke because of that drivel.

I don't think this (http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=120607013434) is exactly inane drivel. This (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/current-events/will-united-states-ever-have-universal-healthcare-389870-2.html#post1943762) is inane drivel - from the Amateur-in-Chief:


At the 17-minute mark we hear this:

“Medicare and Medicaid are on an unsustainable path. Medicare is slated to go into the red in about eight to ten years. I don’t know if people are aware of that. If I was a senior citizen the thing I’d be worried about right now is Medicare starts running out of money because we haven’t done anything to make sure we are getting a good bang for our buck, when it comes to health care”.

Five minutes later:

“I do think it’s important for, particularly seniors who currently receive Medicare, to understand that if we’re able to get something right, like Medicare, then there should be a little more confidence that maybe, the government can have a role, not the dominant role, but a role in making sure the people are treated fairly when it comes to insurance.”

Arguing for the post office and Medicare (both a rousing success and an abject failure according to the same man) as examples for health care reform, that's inane drivel. And what's even funnier to me is that so many people who think of Palin as a complete dufus voted for Joe "stand up Chuck" Biden

Hello again, El:

No, it's not - unless its run by right wingers who DO get the government involved, ala Terri Schaivo, when they don't like the private health care decisions made by its citizens.

Look. The people know the right wing can't be trusted...

excon

Actually, it was the people on the left (namely Schiavo's husband) who got the government involved by suing for custody and making decisions on his wife's behalf... decisions that were HERS, not HIS, to make. HE used the government to get his wishes and impose HIS will.

Despite the fact that she was a demonstrably religious woman who was actively anti-suicide, was demonstrably physically healthy except for the brain injury, demonstrably awake and ACTIVE and had recognition of people, and demonstrably without pain, the state decided to kill her anyway.

She was murdered by the state at her husband's behest. She wasn't reliant on breathing machines and heart machines. Pulling the plug wouldn't have killed her. So she was starved to death so her husband wouldn't have to pay to take care of her anymore. She was a financial burden, and the state got rid of her because of it.

THAT is the treatment you can expect under Obamacare. And HR3200 Section 1233 would give them the power to do it.

Elliot

As for Palin... you can tell how scared the left is of her by how hard they go after her.

I love it ! I don't think she will ever rise to national electoral positions .But what the Republicans need right now is some good ole fashion populism... and that's what she is providing . She is saying the things bluntly everyone else is thinking but are afraid to say.
The left should pay more attention to one of their own regarding Palin... Camille Paglia . She gets it.

Oh Biden is an idiot but but I love those teeth he has Palin has nice teeth also. The difference is Biden was an afterthought of the Obama Campaign Palin was the centerpiece of McCains.

Tom I'm sorry but in my opinion if you even have to be hooked up to one machine to stay alive you are not alive.

As for Obama... you can tell how scared the right is of him by how hard they go after him.

Tom I'm sorry but in my opinion if you even have to be hooked up to one machine to stay alive you are not alive.



Wow ,I'll be sure to forward this to all the handicapped folks I know who other than the inconvenience of the life support the machines give ,live productive lives .

Does that include pacemakers ?

wow ,I'll be sure to forward this to all the handicapped folks I know who other than the inconvenience of the life support the machines give ,live productive lives . How do the people you know hooked up to life support machines lead productive lives? What are they doing that's productive?

as for Obama....you can tell how scared the right is of him by how hard they go after him.

One is in power, backed by a majority that doesn't need a single Republican... and one isn't.

One is in power, backed by a majority that doesn't need a single Republican...and one isn't.So? Irrelevant.

Oh Biden is an idiot but but I love those teeth he has Palin has nice teeth also. The difference is Biden was an afterthought of the Obama Campaign Palin was the centerpiece of McCains.

Biden is still an afterthought, just like Hillary. Obama put people in place he could marginalize so as not to take any attention off him. And face it, McCain just doesn't energize much of anything, Palin did... and she also has great legs. :D


Tom I'm sorry but in my opinion if you even have to be hooked up to one machine to stay alive you are not alive.

Dialysis, anyone?

How do the people you know hooked up to life support machines lead productive lives? What are they doing that's productive?

There is a person I work with, he never misses a days work. But he is dependent on his portable respirator .

I know more than one person who's kidneys get flushed twice weekly by dialysis .

Let me ask you ;would you take Professor Steven Hawking off life support ?

I believe spit (and I) are referring to people in comas that cannot breathe or feed unassisted. That's the usual connotation surrounding the term "being on life support". My sister runs a dialysis department is the US so I'm familiar with that.

Tom i'm sorry but in my opinion if you even have to be hooked up to one machine to stay alive you are not alive.

Then I guess, by that standard, that Christopher Reeve died the day he was thrown by that horse. From that day forward, he was hooked up to a breathing machine that breathed for him because he could not breath by himself. During the period between May 27, 1995 and October 10, 2004, he was, by your definition, already dead.

But during that period between his accident and his death, Reeve probably accomplished some of the most important work regarding disability activism in history.


He appeared at the 1996 Academy Awards to a long standing ovation and spoke of boith his ordeal and the responsibility of filmmakers to attack important issues like disabilities head on.
In the same year he hosted the Paralympics and spoke before the DNC about finding cures for disabilities and spinal injuries.
He narrated the HBO film "Without Pity: A Film About Abilities" which won an Emmy for Outstanding Informational Film.
He was elected Chairman of the American Paralysis Association and Vice Chairman of the National Organization on Disability.
He co-founded the Reeve-Irvine Research Center, which is now one of the leading spinal cord research centers in the world.
He created the Christopher Reeve Foundation to speed up research through funding, and to use grants to improve the quality of the lives of people with disabilities. The Foundation to date has given more than $65 million for research, and more than $8.5 million in quality-of-life grants.
In 2002, the Christopher and Dana Reeve Paralysis Resource Center, a federal government facility created through a Centers for Disease Control and Prevention non-compete grant, was opened in Short Hills, New Jersey. Its mission is to teach paralyzed people to live more independently.
Reeve lobbied for expanded federal funding on embryonic stem cell research to include all embryonic stem cell lines in existence and for open-ended scientific inquiry of the research by self-governance.
In 2002, Reeve lobbied for the Human Cloning Prohibition Act of 2001, which would allow somatic cell nuclear transfer research, but would ban reproductive cloning. He argued that stem cell implantation is unsafe unless the stem cells contain the patient's own DNA, and that because somatic cell nuclear transfer is done without fertilizing an egg, it can be fully regulated
In June 2004, Reeve provided a videotaped message on behalf of the Genetics Policy Institute to the delegates of the United Nations in defense of somatic cell nuclear transfer, which was under consideration to be banned by world treaty.
In the final days of his life, Reeve urged California voters to vote yes on Proposition 71, which would establish the California Institute for Regenerative Medicine, and allot $3 billion of state funds to stem cell research. Proposition 71 was approved less than one month after Reeve' death.
Also in 2004, Reeve directed The Brooke Ellison Story. The film is based on the true story of the first quadriplegic to graduate from Harvard University.
At the same time that he was involved in this activism, he was also adding to his prolific professional portfolio as well.


In 1996, he then acted in a small role in the film A Step Towards Tomorrow.
In 1997, Reeve made his directorial debut with the HBO film In the Gloaming with Glenn Close, Whoopi Goldberg, Bridget Fonda and David Strathairn. The film won four Cable Ace Awards and was nominated for five Emmy Awards including "Outstanding Director for a Miniseries or Special."
In 1998, Reeve produced and starred in Rear Window, a remake of Alfred Hitchcock's 1954 film. He was nominated for a Golden Globe and won a Screen Actors Guild Award for his performance.
On April 25, 1998, Random House published Reeve's autobiography, Still Me. The book spent eleven weeks on the New York Times Best Seller list and Reeve won a Grammy Award for Best Spoken Word Album.
On February 25, 2003, Reeve appeared in the television series Smallville as Dr. Swann in the episode "Rosetta". In that episode, Dr. Swann brings to Clark Kent (Tom Welling) information about where he comes from and how to use his powers for the good of mankind. The scenes of Reeve and Welling feature music cues from the 1978 Superman movie. At the end of this episode, Reeve and Welling did a short spot inviting people to support the Christopher Reeve Paralysis Foundation. "Rosetta" set ratings history for The WB network
Reeve also appeared in the Smallville episode "Legacy".
In April 2004, Random House published Reeve's second book, Nothing is Impossible. This book is shorter than Still Me and focuses on Reeve's world views and the life experiences that helped him shape them.
At the time of his death, Reeve was directing the animated film Everyone's Hero, a work which was completed by Colin Brady and Daniel St. Pierre, which was released in September 2006.
(Most of the above information comes from Wikipedia. A little of it comes from my own knowledge of Reeve, being the Superman fan --- read: comic book geek--- that I am.)

Not bad for a dead guy.

Sorry, but I cannot buy the argument that if someone is hooked up to 'even one machine to stay alive you are not alive'. Christopher Reeve was an amazing human being, and Reeve's life after his accident is certainly stupendous... but it is NOT UNIQUE.

I think you are wrong on this one, Spitevenom.

Elliot

Maybe that is what spit meant . But what he wrote was :

Tom i'm sorry but in my opinion if you even have to be hooked up to one machine to stay alive you are not alive.

Now let's take your argument.. you say it applies for people in comas that cannot breathe or feed unassisted.

More often then not ,people get hooked up to these life support machines temporarily and their conditions improve. Are we saying that these people do not deserve to be hooked up ? Seems too many of us are willing to make value judgements on other peoples lives.

Bringing it back to HR3200... what Palin called the "death panels" sitting in Washington and not knowing that person one way or another will be making those value judgements... probably by the grotesque formulas devised by the likes of Zeke Emanuel and Tom Dashelle .

More often then not ,people get hooked up to these life support machines temporarily and their conditions improve.
Yes that's true but usually the doctors can tell by ECGs and other such metrics what the likelihood of recovery is.

I didn't clearly say what I meant I always assume people can read my mind when I am doing 4 things at once. Christopher Reeve and Stephen Hawkins brains aren't dead they can think they can ask for things they know what is going on around them. Terri Schiavo couldn't.

yes that's true but usually the doctors can tell by ECGs and other such metrics what the likelyhood of recovery is.

No, they really can't. They can only tell from EKGs and EEGs what the patient's condition is RIGHT NOW.

There is no reliable method for predicting the future. That is why doctors never predict with certainty. They tell you what the ODDS are based on prior studies, but they never tell you what WILL happen.

And that is the problem with blanket policies regarding health care that force only one possible response from the medical community. That is the problem with taking the decision out of the hands of the doctors and the patient and putting it in the hands of the government. The government looks at the odds (statistical probabilities) and makes policy. The DOCTOR, on the other hand, looks at the individual patient's specific case as well as the odds for the population as a whole, and makes decisions that are best for that PATIENT.

This illustrates the danger of government-controlled health care.

Elliot

They tell you what the ODDS are based on prior studies...Yes we agree, that's why I said

what the likelyhood of recovery is
BTW the doctor still makes the decision regardless of whether an HMO is paying the bill or the gov is.

Bringing it back to HR3200 ...what Palin called the "death panels" sitting in Washington and not knowing that person one way or another will be making those value judgements ...probably by the grotesque formulas devised by the likes of Zeke Emanuel and Tom Dashelle .

But how is that any different then an under writer at an insurance company? Regardless of what your Dr wants or you want the under writer tells you what you are going to get.

But how is that any different then an under writer at an insurance company? Regardless of what your Dr wants or you want the under writer tells you what you are going to get.This is correct. They will counter with "but you have choice you can go somewhere else" but you really can't.

I didn't clearly say what I meant I always assume people can read my mind when I am doing 4 things at once. Christopher Reeve and Stephen Hawkins brains aren't dead they can think they can ask for things they know what is going on around them. Terri Schiavo couldn't.

I knew what you meant, but it's still not that clear cut.

Right NK that is the point go somewhere else and it is exactly the same. Just a different name different logo but the undertakers I mean writers job does not change.

Speech that has been my problem my entire life. I just don't understand why people just don't straighten up and learn to read my mind.

But how is that any different then an under writer at an insurance company? Regardless of what your Dr wants or you want the under writer tells you what you are going to get.

Can you provide an example where the plug was pulled based on an underwriter's recommendation ?

I didn't clearly say what I meant I always assume people can read my mind when I am doing 4 things at once. Christopher Reeve and Stephen Hawkins brains aren't dead they can think they can ask for things they know what is going on around them. Terri Schiavo couldn't.

Based on the films that I saw of Terry Schiavo, she was responsive to her family, to outside stimulus (music, color, light, touch, etc.) and she had limited responses to conversation. There were even videos of her attempting to communicate verbally.

I know that many "specialists" (especially the ones that supported Michael Schiavo) claimed that these were all "autonomic responses", but based on the films, I'm not convinced of that.

In any case, Schiavo did NOT follow the normal and usual pattern for people with her form of Persistent Vegitative State. Despite her supposed PVS, her responses were of a higher level than normal for a PVS case. On that basis alone, the decision to unhook her feeding tube was unjustified, in my opinion.

But again, the Schiavo case is just simply an illustration of what happens when the government gets involved in health care. Whether the decision of the government (the courts, in this case) was correct or not is beside the point. The point is the fact that the government got involved at all in what is really a matter between the doctor and the patient.

The MOST that the court should have decided was whether Michael Schiavo or Terry's parents, the Schindlers, were the legal guardians. Once guardianship was determined, the courts should never again have been involved in either ordering or stoping Terry's treatment. From that point on, it should have been a matter between the patient (and/or her legal guardian) and the Doctor. But the government insisted on getting involved over and over again, each time overrulling itself in unexpected ways that were pretty schizophrenic in nature.

Whether you agree with the decisions made in Schiavo's case or not is beyond the real point. The issue is the place of government in personal health care decisions. And I say that the government HAS no place in such decisions. The entire mess of the Schiavo case was due to government interference where it didn't belong.

Elliot

can you provide an example where the plug was pulled based on an underwriter's recommendation ?
The day you can prove where a plug was pulled by a bureaucrat in a universal healthcare system. This is one of the rightys main assertions.

Speech that has been my problem my entire life. I just don't understand why people just don't straighten up and learn to read my mind.

I hear you brother.

The day you can prove where a plug was pulled by a bureaucrat in a universal healthcare system. This is one of the rightys main assertions.

Here they try to catch you while you're still alert to help push you along.

Oregon health plan covers assisted suicide, not drugs, for cancer patient (http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=12857)

Speech Strange coincidence you posted that story. Last night I messing with my wife saying that if I ever had cancer I would not get any treatment (which of course I would treat). I should really freak her out and tell her we are moving to Oregon then show her that article.

But cancer drugs should be covered. And I think Assisted suicide should be covered. I know there are religious things about suicide but if you want to die I say go ahead.

The day you can prove where a plug was pulled by a bureaucrat in a universal healthcare system. This is one of the rightys main assertions.

Yes ;the "Remmelink Report" reported over 1000 cases of involuntary euthanasia in Holland... without the patients' knowledge or consent.

But.. All I need to do is show the thought process behind the main architects of the Dems plan... and I have done that more than once already.

Edit to add link
http://www.internationaltaskforce.org/fctholl.htm

Speech Strange coincidence you posted that story. Last night I messing with my wife saying that if I ever had cancer I would not get any treatment (which of course I would treat). I should really freak her out and tell her we are moving to Oregon then show her that article.

I'm sure your wife thinks you're a fun guy :D


But cancer drugs should be covered. And I think Assisted suicide should be covered. I know there are religious things about suicide but if you want to die I say go ahead.

I've always said if people want to die that's their choice... just don't drag others into it.

Oh yeah she thinks I am Hilarious :rolleyes:

I haven't really looked up anything but for the first 3 years I was out of school I worked at a very large Insurance Co. I know exactly how they work. If an under writer was having a bad day people didn't get covered. The guy would get a power trip from it. It was scary to think my treatment is all dangling because of how this person is feeling today. Now I know all people aren't like that but come on.

Oh yeah she thinks I am Hilarious :rolleyes:

I haven't really looked up anything but for the first 3 years I was out of school I worked at a very large Insurance Co. I know exactly how they work. If an under writer was having a bad day people didn't get covered. The guy would get a power trip from it. It was scary to think my treatment is all dangling because of how this person is feeling today. Now I know all people aren't like that but come on.

An underwriter at a private company can be fired for doing what you describe.

Ever try to fire a government employee who was an AFSCME Union member? They are one of the two or three most powerful unions in the nation, and NOBODY who is one of their members gets fired for anything short of premeditated murder. (And that assumes that the government agency would give enough of a $h!t to even try.)

Even at it's WORST, in my opinion, a private company is better to deal with than the government.

Elliot

If an under writer was having a bad day people didn't get covered. The guy would get a power trip from it.

I think that applies just about everywhere. Heck, I'm guilty... I charge some customers more just because they're such a pain in the a$$. That's why a lot of men especially fear sending a meal back in a restaurant, they suspect something may be added for flavor and/or texture. Think of tenured professors or IRS agents or dare I say it, "going postal." Now imagine all those bureaucrats having a bad day with your government health care :D

I guess what I don't understand is why is it so much worse if it is a government employee to you guys? They company I worked for knew how this guy was because I said something about it, but they didn't care he was saving the company money. One higher up actually said to me it's because of him we get to have company retreats at the red door spa. I quit after that.

Clearly this is being lost... it is not the issue of the money and if it is covered . It is an issue of if you can even get the treatment once the desk jocky says no.

Earlier I noted Camille Paglia's take on Palin.

This is what she wrote in Salon about Palin's "death panel" comments:

As a libertarian and refugee from the authoritarian Roman Catholic church of my youth, I simply do not understand the drift of my party toward a soulless collectivism. This is in fact what Sarah Palin hit on in her shocking image of a "death panel" under Obamacare that would make irrevocable decisions about the disabled and elderly. When I first saw that phrase, headlined on the Drudge Report, I burst out laughing. It seemed so over the top! But on reflection, I realized that Palin's shrewdly timed metaphor spoke directly to the electorate's unease with the prospect of shadowy, unelected government figures controlling our lives. A death panel not only has the power of life and death but is itself a symptom of a Kafkaesque brave new world where authority has become remote, arbitrary and spectral.

She's as idiotic as Palin.

Lol ;clearly..

Although the intelligencia of the left regards her as one of the leading teachers and social critics of our age.

although the intelligencia of the left regards her as one of the leading teachers and social critics of our age.Who is this "intelligencia of the left" that you refer to?

Don'cha just love it? Everybody who disagrees with NK is an idiot.

Since this thread is about Sarah Palin:

Why I like Sarah.

She is not a plastic politician. She actually HAS core values that she adheres to. How refreshing is that?

She knows what is is to run a small business and keep a home afloat without unlimited sums of money to deal with.

She understands the thinking of a majority of her fellow countrymen, and shares their values.

She is honest. Oh what a difference THAT makes.

She can actually make a speech without a teleprompter.

She has exhibited good judgment as shown with regard to the policies she brought to Alaska.

She was smart enough to change her position before she and her family were pauperized by baseless charges ad nauseum.

She knows how to energize her base. Unlike someone I could mention.

She is not afraid of a fight. She took on her own party when she believed it necessary for the good of her state.

As to her lack of foreign experience, I think you will find she is a quick study. Besides, the President of the USA doesn't have to know every detail about every country in the world. That's what intelligence agencies and counsellors are for.

I'm not saying she is the only one. We may have others who also have these qualities .

She's as idiotic as Palin.

And I guess the 60% + of Americans who share the same concerns as Palin are idiotic too.

But... you're the bright one.

Righto...

Elliot

And I guess the 60% + of Americans who share the same concerns as Palin are idiotic too.Hello again, El:

What? And those people were doing their laundry during the last election?? You're right. I'm not going to give you any slack when you make up numbers.

excon

She is not a plastic politician. She actually HAS core values that she adheres to. How refreshing is that?
Name one she has adhered to.

She knows what is is to run a small business and keep a home afloat without unlimited sums of money to deal with.
You're her bookkeeper? How do you know this otherwise?

She understands the thinking of a majority of her fellow countrymen, and shares their values.
"Majority"?

She is honest. Oh what a difference THAT makes.
When spending public money to take her family along on political trips for which they weren't invited?

She can actually make a speech without a teleprompter.
You actually understood what she said??

She has exhibited good judgment as shown with regard to the policies she brought to Alaska.
Yup, got to kill those wolves however cruelly possible and cut off a front leg for proof while the wolf is still alive. And oh yea, got to get those big-box stores into town to destroy local businesses and family values.

She was smart enough...
Wha?? Whoa! When was that?

I think you will find she is a quick study
Has she learned world history and political science yet?

Besides, the President of the USA doesn't have to know every detail about every country in the world.
Thank god she can even keep an eye on Russia for us from her front porch!

Don'cha just love it? Everybody who disagrees with NK is an idiot.I think you made a grave error in logic here. You could extrapolate that everyone who agrees with Palin is an idiot but not the extrapolation that you made, that's nonsense.

I think the fact that you 'intelligent' men / women on this board revere this women is an insult to that intelligence. Each and everyone of you people here have more intellect in your little finger than this imbecile of women has in here head, yet you pin her up like some national hero / saviour. Give me a break. If this women ever leads your Country then you really are in trouble.

She's probably a good mum and a nice lady. But intelligent she isn't!!

Hello again, El:

What? And those people were doing their laundry during the last election??? You're right. I'm not gonna give you any slack when you make up numbers.

excon

So you don't think that 60% of the American population is against Obamacare? The polls are all wrong, and the only poll that matters is the 2008 election?

Good. Hold onto that thought. Keep living in the past.

I'm looking forward to watching your reaction in 2010.

Elliot

So you don't think that 60% of the American population is against Obamacare?Hello El:

Of the eleven respondents to MY poll, 73% of the Americans that populate THIS board support MY positions over YOURS.

You may continue to believe your phantom polls if you wish, but you ain't fooling anybody.

excon

Hello El:

Of the eleven respondents to MY poll, 73% of the Americans that populate THIS board support MY positions over YOURS.

You may continue to believe your phantom polls if you wish, but you ain't fooling anybody.

excon

Yeah, but you voted 4 times. I voted only once.

I voted for EX!!

Yeah, but you voted 4 times. I voted only once.Hello again, El:

I tried, but the software wouldn't let me. I know you don't like the results... Deal with it.

excon

I think the fact that you 'intelligent' men / women on this board revere this women is an insult to that intelligence. Each and everyone of you people here have more intellect in your little finger than this imbecile of women has in here head, yet you pin her up like some national hero / saviour. Give me a break. If this women ever leads your Country then you really are in trouble.

She's probably a good mum and a nice lady. But intelligent she aint!!!

Did I miss where we "revered" her?

Did I miss where we "revered" her?Hello again, Steve:

There you go, using that "you" thing again. You are really a closet liberal, so of course, you don't revere her. But, Galveston and 450 would vote for her for ANYTHING in a New York minute. You know that to be so. Yes, I mean YOU!

excon

I get it ;someone makes a blanket statement and when challenged the retreat is... well I wasn't talking abut you... just everyone else like you.

There you go, using that "you" thing again.

Ah, my mistake. And by the way, that proves I'm not a closet liberal - they don't admit to mistakes unless it's someone else's mistake.

Take Nancy Pelosi for instance... please.

Hi, Ex.

I think you're reading your poll wrong.

You are always on the opposite side from Elliot, Speech, and Tom.

When I looked at the bar graphs, it looked like the total for the 3 named is greater than yours.

What do you say?

What do you say?Hello gal:

I say you're a very good Republican like the Wolverine. You see the data you want to see.

If you want to include people besides just me and Elliot, NK, and Wondergirl are on my side. What happens when you add THOSE totals to mine?

excon

I think I know where they are getting there polling numbers from. The RNC sent out mailers to "poll" people on health care here is one of the questions. You guys are too much!! FEAR FEAR and More FEAR!!

That's their bread and butter.

I think I know where they are getting there polling numbers from. The RNC sent out mailers to "poll" people on health care here is one of the questions. You guys are to much!!!!! FEAR FEAR and More FEAR!!!!!

LOL spit, I love it when people accuse the GOP of fear-mongering. Just what the heck have Dems been doing? By the way, I don't put any stock in Dem or GOP polls and view the major polls with a skeptical eye as well. But, they don't look good for Obama or Obamacare right now.

I don't put any stock in Dem or GOP polls and view the major polls with a skeptical eye as well. Dude, the RNC sent this out.

Dude, the RNC sent this out.

Uh, yeah, NK. That's what he was talking about. Please try to keep up.

Dude, the RNC sent this out.

Dude, what part of I don't put any stock in Dem or GOP (http://www.rnc.org/splashpage/index.aspx) polls do you not understand?

Well that's an easy way to sweep everything under the rug isn't it. Unfortunately I don't believe all the recipients of the mailer feel that way.

Spit . Would love to see a link to that image posted.

If that is truly a GOP mailer I will send them a response.

Certainly no one here has used that as a part of their argument.

It was an email forward to me. I'll see if I can track down a link for you Tom.

Here Tom I found this link.

Think Progress Despite Steele Saying He's Not Trying To 'Scare' People, RNC Poll Says Health Bill May Deny Care To Republicans (http://thinkprogress.org/2009/08/27/rnc-sends-poll-to-constituents-suggesting-that-democratic-health-reform-will-deny-medical-treatment-to-republicans/)

Well that's an easy way to sweep everything under the rug isn't it. Unfortunately I don't believe all the recipients of the mailer feel that way.

You're just never satisfied are you?

Other links to the issue:
The Washington Independent Obtained: The RNC's Health Care Survey (http://washingtonindependent.com/56844/obtained-the-rncs-health-care-survey)
http://columbian.com/article/20090825/NEWS02/708259961/-1/NEWS

What's funny still is you guys act as if the RNC is the only who EVER uses such devices. From your own link, NK:


It's standard practice to use such faux "surveys" to raise money for a variety of causes, said Portland pollster Mike Riley. "It's common, trying to stir the pot to see what kinds of issues get attention."

"Both parties do that," Riley said. "They are using some of the hot-button issues to see what activates the voters. It's politics as usual within the party faithful. No one that I know puts any credibility in these types of polls."

Riley recalled a recent fundraising "survey" sponsored by Democrats that attempted to link issues of child safety and gun ownership. One question asked whether it is important to keep children safe and to keep them away from guns. The implication, he said, was "that guns shouldn't be in homes where children are present."

A tip-off that a survey really is a fundraising tract, Riley said, is when questions cover more than one issue. "It's called a double-barreled question" and would not be used by a professional pollster, he said.

Portland pollster Bob Moore agreed.

"It's a fundraising appeal, is what it is," he said. "Everyone does it — Democrats, anti-tax groups, environmentalists. The audience that receives it has given to that organization at some point in time and is on the list to receive solicitations."

If such tactics "weren't effective, they wouldn't be using them," Moore said.

It was a stupid and leading question and that is why I don't give any credence to such "surveys" from anyone, left, right or otherwise. But it's certainly no shock that it happens... what would be a shock is for someone in the media to actually pay attention to what the DNC has been doing.

I like where the RNC rep said it was inartfully worded. Is inartfully even a real word?

"Inartful" has become a politically popular word. Tom DeLay used it in the Schiavo case and Obama has used it a few times.

Obama Camp Disavows Last Year's 'Inartful' Statement on D.C. Gun Law (http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/06/obama-camp-disa.html)

Obama calls Clark's remarks 'inartful' (http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/07/01/1178384.aspx)

Obama Dismisses Inartful FISA Statements (http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/UnNews:Obama_Dismisses_Inartful_FISA_Statements)

I think the RNC rep was taking a dig at Obama...

I just looked it up it was in the 1913 Webster Dictionary but was removed because it is very uncommon. Lawyers and Philosophers use it.

Bak to the OP.

Earl is merely expressing the prevailing attitude of the dumb masses blindly following their Marxist leaders.

That attitude is briefly translated: "Sit down, and SHUT UP.

Does the RNC even have a leader? Or is it Jesus?

Does the RNC even have a leader? Or is it Jesus?

It's Rush Limbaugh, didn't you know? Or so Dizzy Dean and the Leftist crowd would have us believe.

Actually, at this point, I would argue that the Republicans are much better organized than the Dems at this moment. That's what's pissing off the Obamanites and why they are accusing the right of "astroturfing".

It's just that the organization is coming from the bottom up (tea parties, town hall meetings, even talk radio) rather than from the top down (party leaders). The Obama "machine" can't counter that right now.

Call it a bottom-up sort of organization. Our leaders are being found in the streets, not in the offices of DC politicians. (Perhaps that's why Palin is striking such a cchord with so many people... they see her as part of that bottom-up leadership, as opposed to McCain, who represents top-down leadership.

From a political-science perspective, it's really interesting to watch. I can't remember anything like it in my lifetime. It is different from even when the Reagan Revolution got started.

Any comments?

Elliot

Call it a bottom-up sort of organization.
Any comments?
Yea, it's more like corporatism. The corporations who are worried about their profits are the organizers and funders. And that leads to:

Franklin D. Roosevelt in an April 29, 1938 message to Congress warned that the growth of private power could lead to fascism:

The first truth is that the liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic state itself. That, in its essence, is fascism—ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power.

Elliot ; excellent comment ;one deserving it's own posting . In the Harvard Business Publication , Umair Haque argues that the left is losing the public policy debate because the right has adopted “5th generation warfare”.He says that the leaderlessness is a strength because it means that every group of conservative protesters can initiate and plan its own actions within the context of a shared narrative.
Ten Rules for 5G Warfare - Umair Haque - HarvardBusiness.org (http://blogs.harvardbusiness.org/haque/2009/08/obamas_war_and_how_to_win_it.html)

What he really means is that the left's methods, tried and true, relying on controlling the dialoge with the MSM and decapitation strikes on the right's leadership cannot be used when there is alternatives to the MSM narrative ;and the opposition is leaderless at the time. That explains their efforts for naming leaders for the right. They identify Palin ,or Limbaugh as the leader so they have a name to attack and demonize.

He proposes 10 ideas to counter this which I won't get into in detail because some of them ;like "Meta-Attack" are stupid (you have to attack not with “facts”, but with meta-information about how to value facts) .

What NK and others don't understand is that the same bottom up revolt being waged against the Obots is also being waged by the base against the Republican party. When the dust settles a leader from the base will emerge.

Getting back to Palin (and I don't care if she ever is a national candidate again) ;what she says in the national debate about health care speaks the same language as the plumber ,and the "rubes " of the country ,and they understand issues of life and death at least as well as ,if not better, than Harvard educated eggheads like Zeke Emanuel and Hague . By losing the tag of 'elected leader ,Palin liberated herself to speak the language the people understand.

I get it ;someone makes a blanket statement and when challenged the retreat is ....well I wasn't talking abut you ....just everyone else like you.

No... I was talking about you!

Is anyone else sick of Sarah Palin talking nonsense? We all new she was at best semi-literate but her new comments about so-called death panels wanting to execute the elderly and disabled people are too ridiculous for words. What bothers me most is that not one prominent Republican politician has openly denounced her ignorant comments. A few conservative writers have mildly condemned her but she really needs to be told she is just plain stupid. Thankfully her approval ratings are sliding. I just hope she doesn't get the Rep nomination in 2012 or the Republican party is finished. I think she makes Dan Quayle sound like Einstein. I support Ron Paul - Mitt Romney for president in 2012.

I agree. I am beyond tiered of Sarah Palin ramming her mouth every second. I prefer well-educated and intelligent women in power to speak, and she is definitely not in that category. I just hope people really do not support her if she does decide to run for president in the future... bad choice

I agree. I am beyond tiered of Sarah Palin ramming her mouth every second. I prefer well-educated and intelligent women in power to speak, and she is definitely not in that category. I just hope people really do not support her if she does decide to run for president in the future...bad choice

Don't worry about her she will soon be on the scrap heap of history along with all those who tried and failed, they don't often get a second chance

Ramming her mouth every second? Do you somehow have her confused with the Bloviator-in-chief?

Hello again,

I repeat. If the Dems don't get the public option in health care, Sarah Palin will WIN the presidency in 2012.

Then we'll really be able to keep our eyes on Russia.

excon

I really don't think that Obamacare is going to be the deciding factor on Palin. There's a whole lot of other stuff that affects Palin's presidential ambissions.

I know that Palin is unpopular and that you would like to link her unpopularity with Obamacare in order to boost Obamacare's popularity. But frankly, that tactic isn't working for the DNC, and I don't think it's going to work for you either.

Elliot

This attack on Palin is pure Alinskyesque . They have successfully used that ploy with the compliant press to demean Conservative for at least the last 30 years. Reagan , Quayle ,President Bush and now Palin have all been smeared with the too stupid label .

Tom,
I have revised my view - Sarah Palin represents the best that the Republicans have to offer. Go Sarah!

tom,
I have revised my view - Sarah Palin represents the best that the Republicans have to offer. Go Sarah!

This from the person with an Avatar of the Swedish Chef.

Ha Ha, Great line ETWolverine, I think his avatar is actually beaker. I fondly remember the old Muppet Show.

Ha Ha, Great line ETWolverine, I think his avatar is actually beaker. I fondly remember the old Muppet Show.

Yeah, I know it's Beaker. But NK hates it when I call it the Swedish Chef.

Elliot

tom,
I have revised my view - Sarah Palin represents the best that the Republicans have to offer. Go Sarah!

And obviously, Obama is the best the Democrats have to offer.

GO SARAH!

Yeah, I know it's Beaker. But NK hates it when I call it the Swedish Chef.

ElliotNah, call it what you like. I know you like baiting people into anger. Life's too short plus I got happy kids to deal with. :)

Meep-meep!

don't worry about her she will soon be on the scrap heap of history along with all those who tried and failed, they don't often get a second chance

That is true. Personally, I think the best way to help clear the air is to avoid the media at any cost until the media pretty much forgets about you and targets someone else. That's what I would have done any way..

I don't think it's going to be any time soon, she's reportedly already received over 1070 invitations (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0809/26604.html). The first one she has accepted is in Hong Kong to address the CLSA Investors Forum (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32624246/ns/politics-more_politics/).


"Our keynote speakers are notable luminaries who often address topics that go beyond traditional finance such as geopolitics," company spokeswoman Simone Wheeler said in a statement.

"We just felt it would be a fabulous opportunity for CLSA clients to hear from Mrs. Palin," Wheeler said, adding that CLSA approached Palin with the offer.

How many of you expected that?

How many of you expected that?Hello again, Steve:

(meekly raises hand)

excon

How many of you expected that?
Hope she uses a teleprompter.

Hello again, Steve:

(meekly raises hand)

Too funny :D

The first one she has accepted is in Hong Kong to address the CLSA Investors Forum (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32624246/ns/politics-more_politics/).I see that they accept only a select few <snicker>:
CLSA | CLSA Asia Investors' Forum 2009 | 9 - 11 Feb 2009 (http://www.clsa.com/forum/lv09/index.cfm?action=invited_presenter)

CLSA Asia Investors' Forum 2009 Invited Presenter
[N/A] Martin Bellamy
Bangkok Bank Public Co. Ltd. Kulathida Sivayathorn
Bangkok Bank Public Co. Ltd. Piyapan Tayanithi
Boeing Commercial Airplanes Drew Magill
Boeing Commercial Airplanes Rob Young
BP Capital Management T. Boone Pickens
Bright Automotive Michael Brylawski
Bursa Malaysia Berhad Dato' Yusli Mohamed Yusoff
C C Land Holdings Limited Peter H. M. Lam
C C Land Holdings Limited Eva Y. W. Chan
Cairn India Limited Ananthakrishnan Balakrishnan
Cairn India Limited Anurag Mantri
Caterpillar Inc. Richard Lavin
Caterpillar Inc. Michael DeWalt
China Academy of Telecom Research, MIIT Lina Shi
China Academy of Telecom Research, MIIT Xia He
Chrysalix Energy Michael Brown
CLSA - China David Murphy
CLSA - China Andy Rothman
CLSA - Hong Kong Christopher Wood
CLSA - Hong Kong Eric Fishwick
CLSA - Hong Kong Paul McKenzie
CLSA - Hong Kong Andrew Driscoll
CLSA - Hong Kong Francis Cheung
CLSA - Hong Kong Nicole Wong
CLSA - India N Krishnan
CLSA - Indonesia Nicholas Cashmore
CLSA - Malaysia Clare Chin
CLSA - Singapore Geoff Boyd
CLSA - Singapore Neel Sinha
CLSA - Thailand Daniel Tabbush
CLSA - Thailand Andrew Stotz
College of William & Mary Scott Nelson
Continental Airlines Gerry Laderman
Daewoo International Jhoon-Soo Jho
Delta Air Lines Inc Hank Halter
DLF Limited Anurag Kalra
DRAMeXchange Technology Inc. Joyce Yang, Ya-Hsin
Earth Policy Institute Lester Brown
EDUCOMP Solutions Ltd Shantanu Prakash
Electricity Generating Public Co Ltd Vinit Tangnoi
Electricity Generating Public Co Ltd Sakda Sreesangkom
General Electric Trevor Schauenberg
General Electric John G. Rice
Giant Manufacturing Co Ltd Andy Huang
Global Sources Merle Hinrichs
Global Unichip Corp. K C Shih
GMR Group Ashutosh Agarwala
Golden Eagle Roger Wang
Gordon Ramsay Holdings Gordon Ramsay
Guangzhou R&F Properties Co. Ltd. Adrian Chan
Gung Ho Ventures John O'Loghlen
Hokenson & Company Richard Hokenson
Housing Development & Infrastructure Ltd Hari Prakash Pandey
Housing Development Finance Corp Ltd Deepak Parekh
Housing Development Finance Corp Ltd Keki Mistry
Infosys Technologies Ltd S D Shibulal
Infosys Technologies Ltd Sandeep Mahindroo
Infosys Technologies Ltd Prasad Thrikutam
INSEAD Anil Gaba
Intelligence Automotive Asia Ashvin Chotai
Johns Hopkins University Pieter Bottelier
KT Freetel Wha-Joon Cho
LDK Solar Co. Ltd. Jack Lai
Leopard Capital Douglas Clayton
Macquarie Korea Infrastructure Fund Chul-Hum Paik
Malaysian Resources Corporation Berhad Shahril Ridza Ridzuan
Manila Water Company, Inc Glo de Castro
MasterCard International Worldwide Walt Macnee
Minor International PCL William E. Heinecke
Minor International PCL Prapharat Tangkawatana
NTPC A K Singhal
Peabody Energy Corp Vic Svec
Peabody Energy Corp Michael Crews
Philippine Long Distance Telephone Co Anabelle Lim-Chua
Philippine Long Distance Telephone Co Napoleon Nazareno
PT Bakrie Sumatera Plantations Ambono Janurianto
PT Bakrie Sumatera Plantations Howard James Sargeant
PT Bumi Resources Tbk Dileep Srivastava
PT Bumi Resources Tbk Kenneth P Farrell
PT Semen Gresik (Persero) Tbk. Dwi Soetjipto
PTT Exploration and Production Plc. Chatchawal Eimsiri
PTT Exploration and Production Plc. Maroot Mrigadat
RCG Holdings Limited Sri Hartati Kurniawan
RCG Holdings Limited K C Chong
REXLot Holdings Limited Victor Chan
REXLot Holdings Limited Leslie Fung
Samsung Heavy Industries Min-Hae Do
Shinsei Bank, Limited Rahul Gupta
Shriram Transport Finance Company Limited R. Sridhar
Shriram Transport Finance Company Limited Umesh Revankar
SIAM COMMERCIAL BANK BANGKOK Kannikar Chalitaporn
SIAM COMMERCIAL BANK BANGKOK Deepak Sarup
Singapore Exchange John Gollifer
Sintex Industries Ltd Amit Patel
Sintex Industries Ltd Rajiv Naidu
Tata Consultancy Services Limited. S. Mahalingam
Thai Beverage Public Co., Ltd Richard Jones
The Word Doctors LLC Frank Luntz
Tulip Telecom Ltd Lt Col Hardeep Singh Bedi
UB Group Ravi Nedungadi
UCLA Anderson Walter Torous
VISA Inc Joseph Saunders
Wipro Limited Girish Paranjpe
Wipro Limited Rajendra Kumar Shreemal
World Steel Dynamics Peter F. Marcus
Yale University Robert Shiller
YUM! Brands Tim Jerzyk
YUM! Brands Graham Allan
No Sarah Palin yet on that short list.

And obviously, Obama is the best the Democrats have to offer.

GO SARAH!

I love Obama... and I'm not a Democrat.

More like... GO AWAY SARAH! HURRAY... lol :p

Lol... good one NeedKarma. I don't see her on that short list either.

September 02, 2009
Sarah Palin vs. Dr. Death
By Stuart Schwartz

Ezekiel Emanuel is upset. The president's health care czar sees the growing resistance to his vision, to his brave new world of government-run "communitarian" health care in which politicians and bureaucrats control one-sixth of the economy and 100&#37; of our bodies. He doesn't quite understand how it all came apart on him, but he does know who started the unraveling: Sarah Palin.


Where does she get off attacking him? Sarah Palin, it seems forever Sarah Palin. And he wonders, as have so many others, what it takes to put a stake through her heart? People should listen to him, not Sarah Palin. He is the philosopher king of Democrat health care. And he went to Harvard, you know.


One day he was vacationing in the Italian Alps, a top-level government bureaucrat and Democrat insider enjoying the fruits of his labors on behalf of the common good. Government health care was cruising and Zeke was the guy Time magazine predicted will build the most "equitable and ethical" health care system north of Cuba. Marty Peretz, his friend and publisher of The New Republic, described him as quintessential Harvard, "very impressive" and stuffed with "gravitas."


And then he got the call: Sarah Palin had done the unthinkable. She had read the health care bill. Mainstream journalists hadn't read the bill. Congress hadn't read its own bill. But Sarah Palin did. Sarah Palin! He has a medical degree and doctorate in political philosophy from Harvard. The only Harvard she's knows is the chunk of ice off Prince William Sound, Harvard Glacier.


Then she writes something on Facebook -- Facebook, for Obama's sake! -- and suddenly the president, congress, the media, and everyone who is anyone inside the beltway is scurrying for cover. Palin wrote that she wanted nothing to do with Obama's "death panel," the collection of bureaucrats who Zeke was so proudly putting together to assess the "level of productivity" that would determine individual access to medical care


They went after her, but... it was over. Everyone was talking death panels. Sarah Palin had let people know: if you're old, if you're sick, if you're disabled, they're targeting you. It became Mrs. Mom vs. Dr. Death, the governor vs. the terminator.


She cut through the rhetoric, the academic jargon, and adoring press to the truth: Ezekiel Emanuel and Barack Obama and the Democrat-led Congress are putting in place a health care system that will control the lives -- and deaths -- of citizens to an extent never seen in this republic. Her reaction:"we're saying not just no, but hell no!


And Zeke is upset. A slam-dunk had been transformed into an epic battle and, as an American Thinker commentator put it, ObamaCare turned into a "sick joke." That's not how it's supposed to be -- he went to Harvard, you know.


Ezekiel Emanuel "abhors" what she's done. She read his articles, which "even well-educated people" would have a difficult time understanding. And she's certainly not well educated. She's a graduate of the University of Idaho, where they probably write doctoral dissertations in crayon. And she only has a bachelor's degree -- in communications, for Obama's sake!?


It's as if the waitress at the Harvard Faculty Club had, instead of a check, taken out a baseball bat and cold-cocked him. Or the ball girl at the tennis event sponsored by the Harvard Club of Washington DC had reared back and smacked a Dunlop A-Player right into his groin. This is not supposed to happen -- he went to Harvard, you know.


This is crazy! People are packing town halls in protest. They are listening to Sarah Palin and not Zeke, who has been a fellow at Oxford -- the one in England, not the suburb of Fairbanks. And he has written nine books, almost a dozen chapters in other books, and more than 225 other pieces on bioethics and morality. And certified as a genius by The New York Times, which hired him as a book reviewer for its Sunday newspaper


And yet, this, this... this Facebook writer described his thinking as "downright evil." And demanded that he explain why he's trying to put in place centralized health care that "would refuse to allocate medical resources to the elderly, the infirm, and the disabled who have less economic potential."


Evil!? Sarah Palin called him evil!? She said "death panels," he didn't. Hey, some lives are worth more to society than others. Therefore, health services cannot be guaranteed for individuals like Trig, Palin's baby with Down Syndrome, who are "irreversibly prevented" from contributing to the public good. There is a subtle difference.


Sarah Palin simply does not understand. No nuance. She did not go to Harvard, nor is she a board member of Princeton University's Center for Human Values, where Zeke provides support for philosopher Peter Singer. Singer is best known for the view that fetuses and many disabled have less of a right to live than, say, fully functioning humans and "adult gorillas and chimpanzees." No, Zeke believes that those who know better, who understand morality, should make decisions for those less able to do so.


Like Sarah Palin. Like Trig. Like your grandma. And this is because he cares. Just ask him: "I hope at the end of the day I can make things better for people, especially vulnerable people." As an original member of the academic " As an original member of the academic " movement, he has pledged to establish "just" movement, he has pledged to establish "nondemocratic or practice discrimination." health care by means that are "baby with Down Syndrome" A just society doesn't simply happen, he explains. You can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs... so to speak.


So when Sarah Palin says she doesn't want her "complete life" to stand in front of his medical panels... that shows just how unsophisticated her thinking really is. She has already made the anti-social choice of giving birth to a child with a severe disability, who will never be able to live the "bleak choices." outlined by Zeke on behalf of the government.


Therefore, it is the responsibility of a health care system that operates in the public good to deny Trig -- or grandma, for that matter -- health services that are better used elsewhere. Sarah Palin, not the government, is to blame. She chose to have Trig. She forced a situation that provides her with, as Zeke puts it, "complete life" value scale. It is the best way, the moral way, the smart way.


And Zeke knows smart -- he went to Harvard, you know.


Stuart H. Schwartz, Ph.D. is a former newspaper and retail executive. He is on the faculty at Liberty University in Virginia.

Tom, thanks for posting that article by Dr. Schwartz.

In redneck vernacular, this might be called "A whole can of whup-a**".

Tom, thanks for posting that article by Dr. Schwartz.

In redneck vernacular, this might be called "A whole can of whup-a**".

More like a 6-pack...

Great article.

This guy puts it well, too.
By Dewie Whetsell, Alaskan Fisherman


As posted in comments on Greta VanSussteren's article referencing to the MOVEON ad about

Sarah Palin


By Dewey Whetsell


The last 45 of my 66 years I've spent in a commercial fishing town in

Alaska. I understand Alaska politics but never understood national politics

Well until this last year. Here's the breaking point: Neither side of the

Palin controversy gets it. It's not about persona, style, rhetoric, it's

About doing things. Even Palin supporters never mention the things that I'm

About to mention here.


1- Democrats forget when Palin was the Darling of the Democrats, because as

Soon as Palin took the Governor's office away from a fellow Republican and

Tough SOB, Frank Murkowski, she tore into the Republican's "Corrupt Bastards

Club" (CBC) and sent them packing. Many of them are now residing in State

Housing and wearing orange jump suits. The Democrats reacted by skipping

Around the yard, throwing confetti and singing "la la la la" (well, you know

How they are). Name another governor in this country that has ever done

Anything similar. But while you're thinking, I'll continue.


2- Now with the CBC gone, there were fewer Alaskan politicians to protect

The huge, giant oil companies here. So, she constructed and enacted a new

System of splitting the oil profits called "ACES". Exxon (the biggest

Corporation in the world) protested and Sarah told them "don't let the door

hit you in the stern on your way out." They stayed, and Alaska residents

Went from being merely wealthy to being filthy rich. Of course the other

Huge international oil companies meekly fell in line. Again, give me the

Name of any other governor in the country that has done anything similar.


3- The other thing she did when she walked into the governor's office is she

Got the list of State requests for federal funding for projects, known as

"pork". She went through the list, took 85&#37; of them and placed them in the

"when-hell-freezes-over" stack. She let locals know that if we need

Something built, we'll pay for it ourselves. Maybe she figured she could use

The money she got from selling the previous governor's jet because it was

Extravagant. Maybe she could use the money she saved by dismissing the

Governor's cook (remarking that she could cook for her own family), giving

Back the State vehicle issued to her, maintaining that she already had a

Car, and dismissing her State provided security force (never mentioning-I

Imagine-that she's packing heat herself). I'm still waiting to hear the

Names of those other governors.


4- Now, even with her much-ridiculed "gosh and golly" mannerism, she also

Managed to put together a totally new approach to getting a natural gas

Pipeline built which will be the biggest private construction project in the

History of North America. No one else could do it although they tried. If

That doesn't impress you, then you're trying too hard to be unimpressed

While watching her do things like this while baking up a batch of brownies

With her other hand.


5- For 30 years, Exxon held a lease to do exploratory drilling at a place

Called Point Thompson. They made excuses the entire time why they couldn't

Start drilling. In truth they were holding it like an investment. No

Governor for 30 years could make them get started. This summer, she told

Them she was revoking their lease and kicking them out. They protested and

Threatened court action. She shrugged and reminded them that she knew the

Way to the court house. Alaska won again.


6- President Obama wants the nation to be on 25% renewable resources for

Electricity by 2025. Sarah went to the legislature and submitted her plan

For Alaska to be at 50% renewables by 2025. We are already at 25%. I can

Give you more specifics about things done, as opposed to style and persona .

Everybody wants to be cool, sound cool, look cool. But that's just a

Cover-up. I'm still waiting to hear from liberals the names of other

Governors who can match what mine has done in two and a half years. I won't

Be holding my breath.


By the way, she was content to return to AK after the national election

And go to work, but the haters wouldn't let her. Now these adolescent

Screechers are obviously not scuba divers. And no one ever told them what

Happens when you continually jab and pester a barracuda. Without warning, it

Will spin around and tear your face off. Should have known better.

Evil!? Sarah Palin called him evil!? She said "death panels," he didn't. Hey, some lives are worth more to society than others. Therefore, health services cannot be guaranteed for individuals like Trig, Palin's baby with Down Syndrome, who are "irreversibly prevented" from contributing to the public good. There is a subtle difference.

....

So when Sarah Palin says she doesn't want her "baby with Down Syndrome" to stand in front of his medical panels... that shows just how unsophisticated her thinking really is. She has already made the anti-social choice of giving birth to a child with a severe disability, who will never be able to live the "complete life" outlined by Zeke on behalf of the government.


Therefore, it is the responsibility of a health care system that operates in the public good to deny Trig -- or grandma, for that matter -- health services that are better used elsewhere. Sarah Palin, not the government, is to blame. She chose to have Trig. She forced a situation that provides her with, as Zeke puts it, "bleak choices."


And so government, for the sake of the common good, may deny Trig medical care. And may do the same with the elderly, the severely disabled, and others who fall low on the "complete life" value scale. It is the best way, the moral way, the smart way.


And Zeke knows smart -- he went to Harvard, you know.


Stuart H. Schwartz, Ph.D., is a former newspaper and retail executive. He is on the faculty at Liberty University in Virginia.



If Sarah Palin had not CHOSEN LIFE for Trig, would she have been as... what is Obama's term?. EMPATHETIC for those truly in need of help - the sick, the elderly, the disabled etc.


Where is the empathy from Obama and Emanuel and their "death panel?"






G&P







G&P

If Sarah Palin had not CHOSEN LIFE for Trig, would she have been as .... what is Obama's term? ........ EMPATHETIC for those truly in need of help - the sick, the elderly, the disabled etc.?
Palin's choosing not to abort Trig doesn't prove she has empathy. I can't think of one thing she has done to show she's empathetic.

Palin's choosing not to abort Trig doesn't prove she has empathy. I can't think of one thing she has done to show she's empathetic.

Is that a bad thing?

Is that a bad thing?
Is WHAT a bad thing?