Hi, we have been together for about 1.5 years now, but I have never disclosed how much I earn. It is now getting to the point where we are ready to move to the next step and she would like to know. Her reason is that she wants to feel secure in our future together. Advice?

Tell her?

I understand refraining as a guideline of being polite (or, in some cases, out of embarrassment), but if she asks, what possible problem is there from telling her?

I'm hoping her motive of being with me doesn't have anything to do with how financially secure I am. In other words, I don't want her to like me because of how much money I make.

i'm hoping her motive of being with me doesn't have anything to do with how financially secure i am. in other words, i don't want her to like me because of how much money i make.
Unless you underspent on yourself and her since you've been together--and I think that's kind of hard to do for that amount of time--she probably has an idea of how much you make.

You should just tell her, which means you trust her and after a year and a half I hope you would. And, if you're going to share something with her, like a house or an apartment, it's mandatory that she knows.

On a related note, in a relationship similar in length to yours, my sister lied to her ex-boyfriend (from day one) about how much she made, she told him she made twice her actual salary, at the time she made about $33,000. They had an apartment together ($1,150/mo. For 300 sq. ft. no utililties!) and he would spend all sorts of money on her thinking that she could cover him if he got into trouble... NOPE! When he found out over a year later, that was the last nail in the coffin for him and he left her.

Well, she just finished up grad school with no income. I'm working on my second house with a cushy 6 figure income. The disparity is large. I gave her an income range, but she wanted me to be more specific. Just a little confused.

I think that if you have concerns about telling her what you actually earn, then this is a red flag about the relationship.

Your intuition is telling you something about the level of trust in your relationship. It's either created by you - because you're feeling slightly paranoid about her being a gold digger, or by her, because she is.

I wouldn't say anything until you feel comfortable doling so. Surely letting her know the range that you earn is enough? However, if you're going to be moving in together you may need to be more specific because you will be sharing expenses and other costs. Perhaps hold off on any serious commitments until she has a job and is earning her own money?

Well, she just finished up grad school with no income. I'm working on my second house with a cushy 6 figure income. the disparity is large. i gave her an income range, but she wanted me to be more specific. just a little confused.

She's asking if she's going to be "secure" but she makes nothing. The answer you give her the next time she asks is, "More then you."

This is your opportunity to find out what kind of women you're with. Tell her the truth. If she leaves, you're better off for it. If she stays, you're better off for it. This is win-win if you really think about it.

This is your opportunity to find out what kind of women you're with. Tell her the truth. If she leaves, you're better off for it. If she stays, you're better off for it. This is win-win if you really think about it.

Why would she leave? She makes zero and he makes 6 figures?

I think it's weird when people refuse to say how much they make. Spit it out already. How can something be so personal that you can't share it with someone you make love to and are thinking of moving in with. If I were her, I'd be starting to wonder about what your issue is. She already knows you make more than she does. What she doesn't feel is trusted.

Gemini is right. If you don't trust her with something this harmless, then you've both got a problem.

Why would she leave? She makes zero and he makes 6 figures?

She doesn't know how much he makes. For all we know she thinks it's not a lot based on their lifestyle together over the last 1.5 years. Also, she just finished grad school so she is probably feeling like hot s--t and now she wants to see if she can nab herself a richer guy. Women are like this. They WILL measure themselves based on the income level of their man.

Also, she wants to know this BEFORE they go on to the "next step". If it's not enough she obviously won't take that step.

If she truly loves you, then it shouldn't be an issue. What I'm saying is, as long as you don't expect her to live under a bridge, she should be content with you, instead of your net worth. What, if the amount is not high enough, she's calling it quits?

After the wedding I say, then is when you should talk specific figures.

If a man didn't trust me enough to tell me how much he makes, I would not marry him. It's not about the number on his paycheck; it's about trust.

AFTER the marriage is a terrible time for people to start sharing financial information. For all she knows, he's up to his ears in debt.

That's like waiting until after the marriage to talk about whether to have kids.

I can't believe you don't tell your girlfriend how much you make.

I and my friends ( just friends, girls and guys) share those information all the time, why? b.c. we are friends and we trust each other. So strange, it's like if you make more money she is going to take it away or something?

So how much you make OP? Just curious, who is not curious about others' salary? :D

P.S. You should have noticed whether she is a gold digger or not while you are dating her right? If she leaves you after you tell her your salary, then you will know!

Wow, thanks for all the great responses. I had a bad experience in the past where an ex-gf would ask for lavish gifts, even when we started dating! My ex would use that as a measure of "how much i really love her" and all that bull. I told my current girlfriend about my past situation and made it clear that I didn't want to repeat that. Just so everyone knows, we met in grad school together.

She knows my range, and I think that should be good enough... right?

"Also, she wants to know this BEFORE they go on to the "next step". If it's not enough she obviously won't take that step."

I'll spring that on her and see what she says :P

Geez guy, if you don't trust someone after a year and a half, one of you has issues, and shouldn't take the "next step" yet!!

wow, thanks for all the great responses. i had a bad experience in the past where an ex-gf would ask for lavish gifts, even when we started dating! My ex would use that as a measure of "how much i really love her" and all that bull. i told my current gf about my past situation and made it clear that i didn't want to repeat that. just so everyone knows, we met in grad school together.

she knows my range, and i think that should be good enough....right??

"Also, she wants to know this BEFORE they go on to the "next step". If it's not enough she obviously won't take that step."

i'll spring that on her and see what she says :P

I'm 100% with you. Why is it so important after a year and half for her to suddenly know how much you make. If she won't take the next step based on your income then you are the one wasting your time. Furthermore, she doesn't make anything, so she's in no reason to start worrying about how much you make. I'd be insulted that after a year and half this is her sticking point to moving to the next level. You should have demonstrated enough value to her for the last year and half. If that isn't good enough for her, they why should you have to buy her love.

She is at a crossroad... either she stays here with me or move closer to her family, which ultimately ends our relationship.

she is at a crossroad....either she stays here with me or move closer to her family, which ultimately ends our relationship.

Why would you think that your money would motivate her to stay with you?
What has been her motivation thus far?

she is at a crossroad....either she stays here with me or move closer to her family, which ultimately ends our relationship.

I think there is something more here that you are with holding. This just doesn't make sense that she's invested a year and half and suddenly she has to know how much you make, when she makes nothing.

If her crossroad is your paycheck then you ought to be sending her back to her family.

Sounds like the crossroad between her biological father, and her sugar daddy. Sorry, dude. It just sounds like a digger. It's not that you should keep it a secret, but the fact that she wants to know before she commits. Maybe you should show her your W-2, then the door.

True love has no financial bracket, or income range.

Sounds like the crossroad between her biological father, and her sugar daddy. Sorry, dude. It just sounds like a digger. It's not that you should keep it a secret, but the fact that she wants to know before she commits. Maybe you should show her your W-2, then the door.

True love has no financial bracket, or income range.

She has been committed for the last year and a half, why would a 'digger' stay that long?
He apparently is not raining gifts on her because he is trying to hide his income.
She just finished graduate school, it's like like she doesn't have the potential to earn her own salary.

How about that she wants to know because it has been his year and a half secret. She has to already have an idea, but she has been there and he has been in this relationship this whole time. So is the concept that she was after money, so she should stick around for a year and a half to find out what his income was like.

I would have a bigger concern that for him this relationship is all about money after a year and a half and I here nothing mentioned about love. Those are the bigger flags then her wanting to settle down.

Why is it so important after a year and half for her to suddenly know how much you make.

I can answer this one.

It's important for Water Fire to tell her because she now feels like he doesn't trust her. I'm betting she's wondering what his problem is. I sure am.

If he's still imposing his issues with the last relationship on his relationship with her, he is not ready for the "next step," whatever that is (marriage? Moving in? Engagement? ). I think she's right. And a "range" is still too coy by half. The more he says in this thread, the more convinced I am that she has every reason to wonder why he doesn't trust her.

He's the one who is being secretive for no obvious reason. And she's become impatient with this game. If he's playing games like this when she is asking in all seriousness, he's not ready for a real relationship. Nobody can force him to marry her (so what's he worried about? ), and she's the one who needs to make a decision right now.

If Fire Water thinks women only want his paycheck and he has to hide the big number in order for them to "prove their love," then he needs to work on his self esteem before he's ready for a serious relationship.

I can answer this one.

It's important for Water Fire to tell her because she now feels like he doesn't trust her.

Why should he? If she's dated him for a year and half and can't find happiness in him without know what he makes then she shouldn't be trusted.


I'm betting she's wondering what his problem is. I sure am.

His "problem" is he doesn't want to get used for his money.


If he's still imposing his issues with the last relationship on his relationship with her, he is not ready for the "next step," whatever that is (marriage? moving in? engagement??). I think she's right. And a "range" is still too coy by half. The more he says in this thread, the more convinced I am that she has every reason to wonder why he doesn't trust her.

Ironically, the more he says in this thread I agree she is the one that has some issue. Why is it so important for her to know how much he makes... especially since she makes zero. She can't after all this time take the next step, (I agree with you I have no idea what that means) based on him, but his paycheck. I would hestitate to trust her as well.


He's the one who is being secretive for no obvious reason.

He stated he doesn't want to get used for his money. Plus she told him their relationship was based on it. So the reasons seem quite clear.



And she's become impatient with this game. If he's playing games like this when she is asking in all seriousness, he's not ready for a real relationship.

How is it a game when SHE is the one that brought this up. He isn't going around saying, "guess how much I make....I'm not going to tell you" over and over. If a game is being played, it's by the woman how holds the relationship up based on how much he can do for her based on his check.


Nobody can force him to marry her (so what's he worried about??), and she's the one who needs to make a decision right now.

While we still haven't figured out what the next step is. She needs to make a decision on him, not his wallet. If she can't then there is seriously something wrong with her. I understand a woman wants a man with a job and wants a provider, which he has demonstrated he will be able to do. But now she needs to know the exact amount to determine her future? Sounds like a gold digger to me.


If Fire Water thinks women only want his paycheck and he has to hide the big number in order for them to "prove their love," then he needs to work on his self esteem before he's ready for a serious relationship.

I guess I missed him saying they needed to prove their love. I thought he just wanted to make sure his relationship that he values was based on the same value system from her perspective. He's offered of himself for sometime and never expressed to her that he needs her to get a job and support him so it sure does come off strange when she says after all this time, the relationship will now continue or disolve based on his check.

OP,

How come she doesn't make any money?
Why would you date someone who makes no money?

Chuff,
You may have misunderstood my point, which was that her question is about him being open, not about the substance of the question. If he refused to say whether his parents were alive, I think she'd be asking him about that. If he refused to say where he grew up, she'd be asking about that. If he refused to say where he worked, I bet that'd be the question.

So it's not about a dollar figure; it's about his secretiveness. He knows how much she makes... That level of openness should be reciprocated if he expects her to make plans to accommodate their relationship.

If a guy doesn't know what he has got after a year and a half, he just isn't paying attention, same for a female.

No trust = one lousy relationship.

I understand you're apprehensive because of the behavior of your ex... but this girl isn't your ex. Now, if she starts demanding lavish gifts after you disclose your income precisely, show her the door. But I doubt that would be the case. I certainly wouldn't advance in a relationship if my SO was so dodgy about how much she made.

Water_fire,
Do you know you are creepy? If you can not share the simple number after 1 & half yrs of committed relationship, what can you possibly share with her in future? Your girlfriend has masters degree, very marketable, and will land on a good job soon. However, you do not trust her at all. What are you afraid of actually? Do you think she will not search the job hard, and live off you? If you think every girl is trying to steal your money, please stay away from them forever. You are not ready for next step, or real love at all. Please be a reasonable man first, and open up.

Love is about sharing. When a man & woman are in love, they worship each other, they want to share everything with each other (time, energy, passion, interest, future, knowledge, wealth, etc), and continuously give more to make each other happy.

What I see is you are chronically & emotionally stingy & insecure, and do not know how to trust anyone. It is a really serious problem. She is not looking for your money, but your willingness, honesty, openness & generosity toward the relationship. Do you think she is the one you can share everything with or not?

Water_fire,
Do you know you are creepy? If you can not share the simple number after 1 & half yrs of committed relationship, what can you possibly share with her in future? Your gf has masters degree, very marketable, and will land on a good job soon. However, you do not trust her at all. What are you afraid of actually? Do you think she will not search the job hard, and live off you? If you think every girl is trying to steal your money, please stay away from them forever. You are not ready for next step, or real love at all. Please be a reasonable man first, and open up.

Love is about sharing. When a man & woman are in love, they worship each other, they want to share everything with each other (time, energy, passion, interest, future, knowledge, wealth, etc), and continuously give more to make each other happy.

What I see is you are chronically & emotionally stingy & insecure, and do not know how to trust anyone. It is a really serious problem. She is not looking for your money, but your willingness, honesty, openness & generosity toward the relationship. Do you think she is the one you can share everything with or not?

Creepy? Stingy? Insecure? " stay away from them forever" ? This is help?

In this case, yes. I think he needs to hear the other side. He seems convinced that women are all after men's money. Stingy and insecure is exactly how he comes across. However, OP has not been back, so I suspect he got the answer he wanted early on, which is that she must be after his money.

I kind of doubt that women who are after a rich guy bother with the whole graduate school routine. Too much work!

I kind of doubt that women who are after a rich guy bother with the whole graduate school routine. Too much work!

I completely second that notion.
That's a whole lot of work to want to stay at home and live off someone else!

I have seen baggage from the past destroy good relationships of the future. If your not willing to overcome your fears, and take a risk, on a partner, you will get nothing but disappointment, and failure. If you want a future with anyone you have to be able to share your most intimate details with that partner. I think its ridicules to be with someone a year and a half, and still harbor those kinds of reservations about them.

This whole relationship will wind down, as how can there be a future without trust, and confidence, and a willingness to work together through HONEST communications? I just don't see it.

Creepy? Stingy? Insecure? " stay away from them forever" ? This is help?

Yes, in my best knowledge, it will be really helpful to hear the truth from outsider for him. Women are not after men's money. Women are equally motivated, work hard to be financially independent. If he think all women are seeing men for money, it is really insulting. As we can see, she worked hard, completed her high education for future, and dedicated herself to him for 1 and half years. However, he does not trust her, cautious about her intention, make excuses from the past experience, and accuse her as gold digger even before they go to the next level. As other members agree, it is really ridiculous.

I agree with Tal, this relationship will not be a smooth sailing. He has no trust or faith on her. He is emotionally stingy, cannot even share the intimate information with his long term girlfriend, and still not sure about her & relationship due to his insecurity EVEN AFTER 1 and half years. I just cannot believe he think she went through all the hard work for high education to live off him. It does not make any sense.

If he thinks all women are after his money not for love, he better stay away from them to protect himself. Why does he bother to stay with people he does not trust & afraid of ripped off? What is he trying to say here? "I can sleep with you for 1 and half years, but i cannot trust you?" There is no real intimacy. His brain is cold enough not to develop the "true intimacy" even after 1 and half years of exclusive relationship. It is creepy. I cannot think of any other word.

If he is in love head to toe, he would not do this. I believe he does not love her enough to take a risk for next level.

Yes, in my best knowledge, it will be really helpful to hear the truth from outsider for him. Women are not after men's money. Women are equally motivated, work hard to be financially independent. If he think all women are seeing men for money, it is really insulting. As we can see, she worked hard, completed her high education for future, and dedicated herself to him for 1 and half years. However, he does not trust her, cautious about her intention, make excuses from the past experience, and accuse her as gold digger even before they go to the next level. As other members agree, it is really ridiculous.

I agree with Tal, this relationship will not be a smooth sailing. He has no trust or faith on her. He is emotionally stingy, cannot even share the intimate information with his long term gf, and still not sure about her & relationship due to his insecurity EVEN AFTER 1 and half years. I just cannot believe he think she went through all the hard work for high education to live off him. It does not make any sense.

If he thinks all women are after his money not for love, he better stay away from them to protect himself. Why does he bother to stay with people he does not trust & afraid of ripped off? What is he trying to say here? "I can sleep with you for 1 and half years, but i cannot trust you?" There is no real intimacy. His brain is cold enough not to develop the "true intimacy" even after 1 and half years of exclusive relationship. It is creepy. I cannot think of any other word.

If he is in love head to toe, he would not do this. I belive he does not love her enough to take a risk for next level.

His point, and many here also, is that why would she NEED to know the exact amount BEFORE she commits any further? If she loves him unconditionally, she should love him making minimum wage.

Or if he loves her unconditionally, what's the problem??

Or if he loves her unconditionally, whats the problem???

Comments on this post
asking agrees: This is why I said he was asking her to prove her love. He expects her to trust him but he does not trust her with this relatively trivial bit of information. It is insulting and destroys intimacy.
__________________
This is turning into a "who's on first" routine. They're going back and forth, not getting anywhere. Maybe they ARE made for each other after all.

Water_Fire has already stated that he will not tell her because he does not trust her. At the same time, he argues that if she really loves him, she will still trust HIM, even though he withholds information for the sole reason that he does not trust her. The trust is expected to be all on her side.

With apologies to Andrew Marvell

To Her Coy Mister

Had we but world enough, and time,
This coyness, my man, were no crime.
We would sit down and think which way
To walk, and pass our long love's day;
Thou by the Hudson's side
Shouldst hedge funds find; I by the tide
Of Thames would complain. I would
Love you ten years before the Flood;
And you should, if you please, refuse
Till the conversion of the Jews.
My vegetable love should grow
Vaster than empires, and more slow.
An hundred years should go to praise
Thine biceps, and on thy six pack gaze;
Two hundred to adore each witty remark,
But thirty thousand to the rest;
An age at least to every part,
And the last age should show your heart.
For, my man, you deserve this state,
Nor would I love at lower rate.

But at my back I always hear
Time's biological clock hurrying near;
And yonder all before us lie
Fields of women rusted and nunned.
Thy wit shall no more be found,
Nor, in thy marble vault, shall sound
My echoing song; then worms shall try
That long preserv'd trust fund,
And your quaint honour turn to dust,
And into ashes all my lust.
The grave's a fine and private place,
But none I think do there embrace.

Money is important. No way around it. So is religion, family, education etc. Women aren't gold diggers just because they want financial stablity. That being said, ladies, I have noticed many of you seek the answer to this question a bit too early. It would be similar to a man asking you if your mom is fat in the first few months.

Water-fire, If you decide to marry this girl, how would the finances be handled? Would you have a joint checking account? Would she have access to all of your assets? Or would you keep that a secret? You said that you are working on your second house, so I'm assuming that you'll have two mortgages, would her name be on the deeds? What if she gets a job making MORE than you?

My point on this matter is this: if you truly love her, tell her. If she truly loves you, she shouldn't have had to ask, and lived on the assumption that you're making ebough to be a good provider. I mean you told her a ballpark amount, and she sees that you're living quite comfortably.

I think you should just tell her and get on with your lives.

I guess I'm wondering what the downside to telling her is.

Let's take the OP's worst- case scenario and say she is an outrageous gold digger MBA who wants to start a business using his money. She won't marry him unless his income is $350, 000 or more. If it's $225,000 she boots him. Obviously, if she boots him he's better off.

On the other hand, if he tells her he makes $375,000 and she stays, he doesn't know any more about her than before he told her, but he doesn't know less either. It seems to me he can only gain since if he sees her face fall at the number, he'll know she's not for him. He'll LEARN something by telling her.

If he never tells her, she finds out after they're married and THEN divorces him, taking half his assets (because she's a ruthless gold digger, remember).

So why NOT tell her? Otherwise, it just seems arbitrary and controlling and kind of dumb even.

His point, and many here also, is that why would she NEED to know the exact amount BEFORE she commits any further? If she loves him unconditionally, she should love him making minimum wage.

Why? There are many reasons I can think of without making her gold digger. I guess she wanted to lay out all the future plans (long term & short term) in detail with him. Nothing is wrong to make a pink color future plan in details as a girl in love who has committed relationship. She is looking for a job, and has options in terms of job market wise, and needed direction and reality check. She needs to weight out future plans in various scenario. She thought they are close enough to ask salary questions. For job seekers, salary is one of the most important questions in the period to anyone. She obviously thought he was in the same chapter with her, anxiously suggested to go to the next level together, and tried to make future plans in all the details as much as possible. She wanted to include actual numbers in the blue print. It does not mean that if the number is not big enough she will exit. Does it?

In my eyes, commitment and love is given (for her) in this situation after 1 and half years. There is no evidence she will exit if he makes minimum, I have to think she unconditionally loves him, is anxious to get a job, get married and settle down with him. He does not concern she will leave him, but rather he worries she might take advantage once he releases his salary info. He is fighting here not to give her 'the possibility'. It seems to me it is unreasonable suspicion if he automatically thinks she will be a user because she simply asked his salary info. Although, his suspicion is persistent, and the level seems deep, and there should be a hidden issue in the relationship.

My point is again, a normal couple in love should be able to talk about literarily everything after one and half years of commitment. I never thought salary information is the top secret or taboo in a relationship. If they are heading to next level and get married, his & her money will be eventually 'theirs' upon marriage. What makes difference anyway when to release the salary info? He is obviously not ready for it, and has a lot of hesitation. I wonder how is their communication besides of money. Do they have open communication for everything but money talk? Or they do not have true open communication at all?

I have 'open book policy' with my husband, we have talked about 'literary everything' include most secretive & intimate matters between us even way before we engaged, and it keeps our relationship solid and stronger everyday. I do not see this level of open communication & trust in his post.

I am not even sure what he exactly mean 'next level anymore.
However, open communication and trust is the 'MUST HAVE' element for successful relationship & happy marriage. As a woman's viewpoint, I rather marry to an average man who trust me, but not a billionaire who mistrust me, and sees me a possible user. It is insulting, and the relationship will not ever work.

If you can't find the answers here my friend pray to God and ask him. The Bible says that

"It is easier to pass a camel through the eye of a needle then for a rich man to get into Heaven."

If you LOVE her then you will do what ever it takes to make her happy and if she LOVES you then she will do everything in her power to make you happy.

If none of those things work for you then make her sign a pre-nuptial agreement.



"Then MAKE her sign a pre-nup?" I have no idea what era you live in (as evidenced by some of your other posts). I also don't know that prayer is the answer to this problem nor do I understand the biblical quote. How does that pertain to this?

Lifestyle is an indicator of income in 99.9% of the men I've dated. It would appear to me that the girlfriend is more interested in how LITTLE he makes than how MUCH he makes.

If you don't trust a woman enough to tell her how much money you make after a year and a half, what makes you think a marriage is going to work?
That makes no sense. I think money is the issue with you and you are making it one with her.
I don't think you are ready for marriage.

I wish Water_Fire would come back and tell us what he did. I'm so curious.