So my beloved Iggles (thats philly for eagles in case you didn't know) signed Michael Vick. I am happy about this although I think I am in the minority.

But how about you do you think Vick should be banned from the league? Or do you think he deserves this second chance?

I say he served his time and deserves this second chance. And If you didn't know Philly has a very big dog fighting problem. He could do a lot of good talking to the kids and telling them how stupid it was and how he almost ruined his entire life.

It must be a PA thing because we use Iggle too

I'm for giving him a second chance. I think it is just that the leagues that didn't want him didn't want the stigma of his reputation. But its not like his crime was a direct football crime.

Hopefully he learned his lesson and doesn't do anything that will further mar his image.

The people that often make the most impact on detering crime are the ones that paid the price and made a complete turn around
Hopefully he will do something positive in Philly to stop the dog fights there

Ban him...

While we are at it, roast his decapitated corpse over a fire.

I'm sorry but people like that don't deserve a second chance.

He was sentenced and he did his time. He has the right to go back to work. It just happens that his line of work offers great wealth and fame. If he were a ditch digger would we say he shouldn't be allowed to get a job?

What he did was awful - as lots of crimes are. But everyone is afforded the right to re-enter society when they are released from jail.

Football is a multi billion dollar business. Owners will hire whomever they think will help their business to be successful and make money.

Would I want to cheer for him? No. Nor would I want to cheer for Ray Lewis, Plaxico Burress or any of the Cincinnati Bengals. But football is a huge part of the American culture and most people cheer for the uniform, not the indiviual.

Hopefully Vick is sorry for what he did. Hopefully he will use his time and fame for good.

No I think it is a PA thing now let me ask you do you wouder or water?!

Shaz I know where you are coming from and I respect it.

Wouder -water
Wosh -wash
Rinch -rinse
Redd up -piick up the clutter
Je jet -did you eat yet
No jew - no did you
Sliberty -east liberty
Dahn than -down town
Picksburgh -Pittsburgh -replaced with da burg thang
Yinz -you all
N'at -and that
That's it Fort Pitt - That's all (for now :D)

I think it's a good move for the Eagles, in football terms that is. They have an offence that can really do well with a guy like Vick, they aren't strangers to having a mobile QB (old Mcnabb I mean) so they will adjust. Plus, if Mcnabb has a poor season Vick just may be able to come in full time, time will tell where his skill level is at but it worth the risk I'd say.

As for suspending him. He did his time, look at Stallworth, 30 days in jail for what a regular Joe would receive 15 to life, insanity.

BMI Stallworth received a harsher penalty from the NFL then he did from the law. 30 days in jail, a year suspension from the NFL.

Just listened to Vick's press conference. He sounded remorseful and sincere. Hopefully he is.

Vick was one of my favorite QBs. Skill wise he still is, but it is sad when a good player makes such a big mistake.

Randy Moss was one of my favorite players of all time, not anymore when I discovered how horrible of a person he is.

Hopefully Vick plays good, but I for one won't be chearing for him anymore, when he makes a good play I'll just say "hmm that was good" instead of "wow vick is amazing holy crap"

Snipy Randy Moss isn't a horrible person where did you hear that? He does a lot for under privileged kids in West Virginia.

http://www.abetterwestvirginia.com/2009/02/01/nfls-randy-moss-investing-back-in-west-virginia/

Snipy Randy Moss isnt a horrible person where did you hear that? He does a lot for under privileged kids in West Virgina.

NFL's Randy Moss Investing Back in West Virginia | a Better West Virginia Blog - Culture | Arts | Economy (http://www.abetterwestvirginia.com/2009/02/01/nfls-randy-moss-investing-back-in-west-virginia/)

It was in the news, I can't remember exactly when I'm guessing like 4 years ago?

He attempted killing his wife trying to run her over with a car. I don't know maybe it was just a rumor from the news, but that's what I heard.

Randy Moss biography, Randy Moss photo, Randy Moss picture, Randy Moss bio (http://www.bullz-eye.com/sports/athletes/randy_moss.htm)

When you violently kick a fellow classmate in high school and get booted from not one, but two prolific collegiate programs in Notre Dame and Florida State, not many NFL teams are going to jump at the chance to draft you.

His trouble making tendencies, however, has led to many off the field problems.

On September 24, 2002 in downtown Minneapolis, Moss was driving in his Lexus and was preparing to do an illegal turn. A city worker saw what he was trying to do and stood in front of his car while ordering for him to stop. He didn't stop, however, until she fell on the ground. He was originally charged with Suspicion of Assault with a Deadly Weapon and a misdemeanor for marijuana possession. He eventually pleaded guilty to the misdemeanor violation and was ordered to pay a $1,200 fine and perform 40 hours of community service

His antics did not stop there, however, and in a ‘04 playoff game at Green Bay, Moss scored a touchdown then proceeded to fake moon the Packers fans while rubbing his butt all over Green Bay’s goal post

He sounds like a swell guy to me... :p

And look at OJ.
Celebraties do get an easy pass because of who they are Michael Vick did pay for it and hopefully learned his lesson

You do know that Packers fans moon the visiting teams bus every game. That is why he did that after he scored a touchdown against them.

I wouldn't stop for ANYONE standing in front of my car either. For all I know that person could be setting me up to get car jacked.

You do know that Packers fans moon the visiting teams bus every game. That is why he did that after he scored a touchdown against them.

I wouldn't stop for ANYONE standing in front of my car either. For all I know that person could be setting me up to get car jacked.

Then you can have fun going to jail too lol. Plus he pleaded guilty to a number of things. And just because one team does one thing does not mean you have to sink low, why couldn't he just be the bigger man? Anyway I'm not here to argue I simply stated my opinion and you asked me where I heard the news from, so I showed you.

http://blastmagazine.com/the-magazine/features/2008/01/randy-moss-is-in-trouble/
Here is some more news for you that I just found.

The Patriots star has been hit with a temporary injunction for protection against alleged dating violence. A restraining order is in place that will not allow him to come within 500 feet of accuser Rachelle Washington.

Moss allegedly hit the victim, seriously injuring her and then refused to allow her to seek medical attention.

But he didn't go to jail. What's wrong with having a little fun with the fans. It's not like he even pulled his pants down. He acted like it. Aside from the fight he got in a fight when he was in High school and the car thing. He has not been in trouble for anything else.

But he didn't go to jail. Whats wrong with having a little fun with the fans. It's not like he even pulled his pants down. he acted like it. Aside from the fight he got in a fight when he was in High school and the the car thing. He has not been in trouble for anything else.

So possession of marijuana is not anything else I guess to you. A restraining order so he cannot go near somebody is nothing. And assault with a deadly weapon is nothing. He has been in trouble more than once for drugs. I'm sure if I kept searching Google for articles about him, I could find many more things. Stop arguing with me when I've shown you articles. You must love him as a player and that's okay with me I don't care. But the proof is there that he gets in trouble a lot.

http://news.minnesota.publicradio.org/features/200209/25_williamsb_moss/
Oh and just so you know it was a traffic officer not just a plain old person. I did more research on it.

Yes possession of Pot is absolutely NOTHING to me. Just because someone put a restraining order on him doesn't mean he actually did anything. Never convicted never arrested for that.

snippy07, let it go, the fact you're pulling up stories from years ago makes it obvious you're bitter. If you're going to single out any NFL thug it should be Plaxico. What he did was just stupid and dangerous.

Apparently, Andy Reid's derelict sons influenced the decision. I don't know why the Eagles signed him for as much as they did when a lot of teams, namely San Fran, actually need a decent quarterback. I'm sure McNabb will be okay waiting on the side-lines when Vick's called in to take 8 or 9 snaps in a game.

Aside from that, Vick is an idiot just like his younger, dumber brother Marcus, but he did serve his time. But if he were ever in a Pats uniform, I'd probably react much differently.

Yes possession of Pot is absolutely NOTHING to me. Just because someone put a restraining order on him doesn't mean he actually did anything. Never convicted never arrested for that.

Ok and running over a traffic officer and not stopping until half a block away with the officer still on the car is nothing. And he pleaded guilty and bever aplogized to the officer. Because he is a football player and a good player he is not sentenced harshly at all and that is why he never does any time. But for this incident he did have to do community service and pay a fine. Yea I would say he got off the hook pretty easily. If you want to keep arguing about this then fine... because Moss simply "can't stay out of trouble" as other reporters put it.

Oh the restraining order was dropped against Randy Moss and the case was closed.


Restraining order against Randy Moss dropped - USATODAY.com (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/patriots/2008-03-11-moss-order_N.htm)

snippy07, let it go, the fact you're pulling up stories from years ago makes it obvious you're bitter. If you're gonna single out any NFL thug it should be Plaxico. What he did was just stupid and dangerous.

Apparently, Andy Reid's derelict sons influenced the decision. I don't know why the Eagles signed him for as much as they did when a lot of teams, namely San Fran, actually need a decent quarterback. I'm sure McNabb will be okay waiting on the side-lines when Vick's called in to take 8 or 9 snaps in a game.

Aside from that, Vick is an idiot just like his younger, dumber brother Marcus, but he did serve his time. But if he were ever in a Pats uniform, I'd probably react much differently.

I'm not letting it go because I've tried and this guy keeps trying to tell me I'm wrong. For one all I was trying to do was state my opinion that I used to like Moss and no longer did after he's been in trouble. Then the guy asks me where I heard it from, so I show him a article I randomly find off Google. I'm not trying to single anybody out, but I will prove my point if somebody wants to argue with me.

Oh the restraining order was dropped against Randy Moss and the case was closed.


Restraining order against Randy Moss dropped - USATODAY.com (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/patriots/2008-03-11-moss-order_N.htm)

Congrats on finding that.. but just because it was dismissed doesn't mean it didn't happen. He could have paid her money to keep her mouth shut, but I will give you that one since we cannot prove that. Are you still trying to say running over a officer is no big deal? Because I would do that too.

My two cents about Michael Vick.

It's really hard for me to forgive someone that would do this to a dog;

>Picture Removed<
Gruesome!!

Sorry for the horrible picture, but it is what it is, and that dog is what Michael Vick made him.

The question is, does the dog get a second chance to be the dog he should have been? The answer, no.

Looks like I stopped the conversation.

I know the picture is hard to look at. There are worse ones I could have posted.

Does a man like that deserve a second chance?

The things he did to the dogs that wouldn't fight were even worse. They were tortured to death, electrocuted, hung, decapitated with the guillotine he built especially for the purpose of torturing dogs. He filmed it all, so he'd have memories.

Should he be allowed to work? Sure, in a dog pound, cleaning out the stalls, bathing the dogs, caring for the dogs and half his paycheck should go to the rehabilitation of the dogs he scarred for life.

Just my opinion. :)

You do know that Packers fans moon the visiting teams bus every game. That is why he did that after he scored a touchdown against them.

I wouldn't stop for ANYONE standing in front of my car either. For all I know that person could be setting me up to get car jacked.

You would hopefully stop for a meter reader or traffic peace officer. That was who he was accused of hitting and running over that day. It was all over our news he really hit her with his car and she rolled and then hit the ground. I wanted to add that I don't agree with what Michael Vick did at all.
However, this is how he makes his money, it is his profession. There are several professions that you are not allowed back in when conficted of crimes and several where it is okay to pick back up where you left off prior to going to prison all depends on the crime conficted of and if it violates your release or probation requirements.
I wish him the best. He will truly never be the same, whether he has learned from this or is remorseful. I'm hopeful that doing time changed his perception of what he has done.

Looks like I stopped the convo.

I know the picture is hard to look at. There are worse ones I could have posted.

Does a man like that deserve a second chance?

The things he did to the dogs that wouldn't fight were even worse. They were tortured to death, electrocuted, hung, decapitated with the guillotine he built especially for the purpose of torturing dogs. He filmed it all, so he'd have memories.

Should he be allowed to work? Sure, in a dog pound, cleaning out the stalls, bathing the dogs, caring for the dogs and half his paycheck should go to the rehabilitation of the dogs he scarred for life.

Just my opinion. :)
You forgot the rape stand.

As a football player I always thought he was over-rated because scrambling doesn't lend itself to a being good quarterback. As a human, he probably should be watched carefully 'cause a lot of murders start by killing animals ruthlessly.

But there's always going to be that problem, separating the person from the player. What he did was sick and I do despise him for it, but it has nothing to do with his football career, he did serve his time. If he's deemed good enough, he could be a hall of famer like OJ or Ty Cobb. Although, OJ's bad trip happened later, Ty Cobb was a scumbag throughout his career. It's the halls of fame of football, baseball, hockey and basketball; not of good character.

You forgot the rape stand.

As a football player I always thought he was over-rated because scrambling doesn't lend itself to a being good quarterback. As a human, he probably should be watched carefully 'cause a lot of murders start out by killing animals ruthlessly.

But there's always going to be that problem, separating the person from the player. If he's deemed good enough, he could be a hall of famer like OJ or Ty Cobb. It's the hall of fame of football, not of good character.

I understand what you're saying, but still, why would anyone give a man like that a chance to be in the hall of fame? He doesn't deserve it. He doesn't even deserve to be out of jail. Again, my opinion.

Why should he be allowed to continue playing, make millions, after what he did?

Of course he won't do it again, because he knows he's being watched. Did he learn anything? Yes, don't get caught, that's what he learned.

My dream, to gather five of the dogs he tortured and meet up with him in a dark alley. I'd simply let go of the leashes and let the dogs do what they may.

Mean? Maybe. Justice? Definitely!

Maybe that makes me an unforgiving b*tch, but I have to side with the dogs on this one, they didn't have a choice. They didn't have a chance. Michael Vick shouldn't either.

Sorry, I feel very passionately about this. I loathe that man, and I don't use that word lightly.

I understand what you're saying, but still, why would anyone give a man like that a chance to be in the hall of fame? He doesn't deserve it. He doesn't even deserve to be out of jail. Again, my opinion.

Why should he be allowed to continue playing, make millions, after what he did?

Of course he won't do it again, because he knows he's being watched. Did he learn anything? Yes, don't get caught, that's what he learned.

My dream, to gather five of the dogs he tortured and meet up with him in a dark alley. I'd simply let go of the leashes and let the dogs do what they may.

Mean? Maybe. Justice? Definitely!

Maybe that makes me an unforgiving b*tch, but I have to side with the dogs on this one, they didn't have a choice. They didn't have a chance. Michael Vick shouldn't either.

Sorry, I feel very passionately about this. I loathe that man, and I don't use that word lightly.


I'm with you 100%

In my perfect world whatever crime someone committed it be done back to them 10 fold.

Someone fights dogs... they get chained up and attacked by them

Someone rapes a girl... they get it done back to them.

In my opinion doing that is the lowest act you can do. At least if 2 people fight they have the opportunity to defend themselves, the dogs didn't have that luxury, they just keep on going until one of them dies.

I'm with you 100%

In my perfect world whatever crime someone commited it be done back to them 10 fold.

Someone fights dogs... they get chained up and attacked by them

Someone rapes a girl... they get it done back to them.

In my opinion doing that is the lowest act you can do. At least if 2 people fight they have the opportunity to defend themselves, the dogs didn't have that luxury, they just keep on going until one of them dies.

Exactly Shaz.

The fact that Michael Vick (just typing that name makes me cringe) is out of jail and allowed to continue his life where he left off, that's not justice!

The dogs that lived will never be the same.

I know that to a lot of people they are just dogs. Well, they feel, they hurt, they are breathing, living, feeling creatures. They didn't choose this, Michael Vick did.

He's sick, he shouldn't be allowed amongst normal human beings.

If he had done this to people you'd be out for blood.

I understand what you're saying, but still, why would anyone give a man like that a chance to be in the hall of fame? He doesn't deserve it. He doesn't even deserve to be out of jail. Again, my opinion.

Why should he be allowed to continue playing, make millions, after what he did?

Of course he won't do it again, because he knows he's being watched. Did he learn anything? Yes, don't get caught, that's what he learned.

My dream, to gather five of the dogs he tortured and meet up with him in a dark alley. I'd simply let go of the leashes and let the dogs do what they may.

Mean? Maybe. Justice? Definitely!

Maybe that makes me an unforgiving b*tch, but I have to side with the dogs on this one, they didn't have a choice. They didn't have a chance. Michael Vick shouldn't either.

Sorry, I feel very passionately about this. I loathe that man, and I don't use that word lightly.
I agree with you. I didn't want to see him back in the league either especially for $6 million over two years.

I never liked him before all this crap came out, he's a lousy quarterback, always had that thug attitude and everyone in ATL thought he was God's gift to football because he can run. That's me being an arrogant Pats fan.

He's a degenerate and he's sick, but legally he's fulfilled everything so far.


I know that to a lot of people they are just dogs. Well, they feel, they hurt, they are breathing, living, feeling creatures. They didn't choose this, Michael Vick did.

I don't know, I'm pretty sure there's more people on your side than you think.

PETA is going to be swarming Lincoln Financial Field on opening day and thereon after, probably waving images worse than the one you showed, I feel bad for spitvenom, they already released a statement expressing their disappointment in the Eagles organization. (http://blog.peta.org/archives/2009/08/vick_eagles.php)

I saw the PETA thing.

I'm not a big fan of PETA (I know, shocking) I think they're extremists. But, on this count, I'm on their side!

Go PETA! :)

Maybe Michael Vick will get tackled, break a leg and no longer be able to play. :)

Ok let me make this as clear as possible. I have been car jacked in philly it is not fun. I DO NOT STOP FOR ANYONE WHO IS STANDING In front OF MY CAR. I don't care what uniform they have on. If you went through what I went through you would understand.

And the PETA thing. Don't feel sorry for me feel sorry for those PETA protesters. If you have never been to an Eagles game in Philly before you wouldn't understand. Hardcore eagles are unlike anything you have ever dealt with. It is out of control.

I hope PETA does their homework. I know for a fact the first one of them that has the stupidity to go up to an Eagles fan who is tailgating cooking a big steak and says Meat is murder WILL be knocked out. I rarely go to an Eagles game because it is to crazy. They literally have a courtroom and jail cells built in the stadium.

Two weeks ago a guy was beaten to death at a Phillies game because of a spilled beer.

Well this was fast to get him in a eagles uniform

Michael Vick Dog Chew Toy | Philadelphia Eagles | Dog Toys (http://www.vickdogchewtoy.com/)

And the PETA thing. Don't feel sorry for me feel sorry for those PETA protesters. If you have never been to an Eagles game in Philly before you wouldn't understand. Hardcore eagles are unlike anything you have ever dealt with. It is out of control.
I've been to Citizen's Bank Park to see the Pirates play the Phillies in 2004, nice place, a lot nicer than Fenway. I used to go to Drexel, but left after one year because I'm still paying off a loan I took out over four years ago.

Ya I know you Eagles fans are, I've heard plenty of stories from kids who grew up in Philly. Really, it doesn't sound fun at all.

And it's funny too 'cause Philly had some of the nicest people I've ever met.

I just heard the Patriots made a last-second attempt to sign Vick when they found out he was going to sign for $1.6 million, it's good thing he didn't, Pats fans have morals.

I saw the PETA thing.

I'm not a big fan of PETA (I know, shocking) I think they're extremists. But, on this count, I'm on their side!

Go PETA! :)

Maybe Michael Vick will get tackled, break a leg and no longer be able to play. :)

Wow

Wow

Wow good or bad?

Either way, it's how I feel.

I wouldn't shed a tear if something happened to that man. Just like he didn't
Shed a tear every time he electrocuted a dog or drowned one in the bath tub.

Donte Stalworth... really, who do we value more? Our dogs or humans? Are we going to be equally appalled when or if he is allowed back in the NFL? Or are we appalled that he only served 29 days for a DUI manslaughter case? Where is that post? Somebody have the link?

Donte Stalworth... really, who do we value more? our dogs or humans? are we going to be equally appalled when or if he is allowed back in the NFL? or are we appalled that he only served 29 days for a DUI manslaughter case? where is that post? somebody have the link?

I can only speak for myself, but yes, I'll be equally appalled.

As for the post, start it, it's worthy of discussion.

This post is about Michael Vick and his crimes, the fact that he's resuming his life with what I think amounts to a slap on the wrist, if that, for what he did to those poor helpless dogs.

Your right that is what this is about and since the audience here is paying attention I am drawing attention to this case that will allow this person back in to the NFL in the 2010 season, What about Leonard Little of the St. Louis Rams struck and killed a woman while driving drunk in 1998. He was suspended for eight games, allowing him to come back in the middle of the season. He was arrested again for drunk driving in 2004, but was acquitted.

I am an Eagle fan because McNabb used to play for my hometown team.Syracuse! Go Orange!
I abhor what he did but he did his time.
If we hold our athletes or our politicians to a higher standard ,we are just asking for disappointment.
One would HOPE that they would be good role models but that is just unrealistic.Sadly.

I saw the PETA thing.

I'm not a big fan of PETA (I know, shocking) I think they're extremists. But, on this count, I'm on their side!

Go PETA! :)

Maybe Michael Vick will get tackled, break a leg and no longer be able to play. :)

Love it :D

Hmmm, anyone got some fishing line and a couple of sticks...

Access to the playing field would be great too

Lot of people up in arms against Vick.

I never liked him as a QB and I certainly do not condone or make light of what he did. However, suggesting he has learned nothing and only will behave due to the fact he has too is not really a fair statement. Those that question his ability to rejoin the league and make millions of dollars after what he did is not really his fault either. I mean he happens to excel in a profession that pays a pretty good wage, if he were a plumber or office worker would one be so quick to say he shouldnot be allowed to continue in his profession, I doubt it sincerely.

Also, comments about him spending the rest of his life behind bars is a bit much. With all do respect to dog lovers and owners he did not torture human's that would warrant him life in prison. Though you could make a case that he got off lightly.

Lot of people up in arms against Vick.

I never liked him as a QB and I certainly do not condone or make light of what he did. However, suggesting he has learned nothing and only will behave due to the fact he has too is not really a fair statement. Those that question his ability to rejoin the league and make millions of dollars after what he did is not really his fault either. I mean he happens to excel in a profession that pays a pretty good wage, if he were a plumber or office worker would one be so quick to say he shouldnot be allowed to continue in his profession, I doubt it sincerely.

Also, comments about him spending the rest of his life behind bars is a bit much. With all do respect to dog lovers and owners he didnot torture human's that would warrant him life in prison. Though you could make a case that he got off lightly.

I do agree with you. His extreme wage and public profile does make him a bigger target yes, but I would be just as disgusted at someone in a lower paying job being allowed to go back to their normal life.

I respect your second point as well, no it wasn't a human that he tortured but as I said before, I think that torturing animals is worse in some ways than doing it to a human because a human at least has the chance to fight back.

A boy here in my state was friend with my partner when they were in high school, my partner went over to his house and he had a cat tied up to a crucifix.
My partner took one look and walked out, never spoke to him again...

A few years back a newsflash came up "The wheelie bin murder"
That same kid had grown up, killed someone, put them in a rubbish bin and then dumped it in the river.

Animal torture has been linked with a lot of psychiatric problems.

I repects everyone's opinion but mine just happens to be a little more extreme :)

Fair enough Shazamataz. Your dedication to animal rights is quite admirable I should add.

Your right that is what this is about andd since the audience here is paying attention I am drawing attention to this case that will allow this person back in to the NFL in the 2010 season, What about Leonard Little of the St. Louis Rams struck and killed a woman while driving drunk in 1998. He was suspended for eight games, allowing him to come back in the middle of the season. He was arrested again for drunk driving in 2004, but was acquitted.

That is horrible. It warrants a discussion, but this thread is about Michael Vick and his crimes.

BMI, I value your opinion as well. You're right, it's not like he hurt a human being, but something tells me, if he had, he would have gotten a slightly longer prison term and then the offer to play with the Eagles. The only difference would be that more people would be outraged if he had killed and tortured people.

He bought these dogs for the purpose of turning them into vicious killers. Those that couldn't rise to the challenge were executed. He videotaped those executions so he could watch them over and over again.

My belief, it was only a matter of time until he hurt a human being. The road he was on would have lead to that eventually.

You're also right that the reason for most of my outrage is the fact that the job he has been offered will pay him millions. Why should he live in the lap of luxury?

I would feel better about all of this if 1/3 of his paycheck went towards animal shelters.

People have a voice, animals don't. It's up to the humans to protect the animals.

That's how I feel.

My belief, it was only a matter of time until he hurt a human being. The road he was on would have lead to that eventually.
More than likely, he'll probably become another OJ.



You're also right that the reason for most of my outrage is the fact that the job he has been offered will pay him millions. Why should he live in the lap of luxury?

This is another argument, why should any athlete get as much as they do? Even chief executives and their annual bonuses that amount to the lowest-payed worker's salary twenty-fold? But yeah, this is the central reason why Vick's been on the chopping block since the indictment. Cock and dog fighting is prevalent in the southern US, and I doubt those that got convicted of torturing animals alone did not get two years in prison.


...but I would be just as disgusted at someone in a lower paying job being allowed to go back to their normal life.
Why? The one thing in life everyone needs to realize is that people do f**k up and make bad choices but they can learn from them. Ya know there are some guys out there, take a former gang member, who got nabbed and did his time prison, was released and made a valiant attempt to turn his life around but can't because no employer will hire him. If a criminal paid for the consequences of his actions he should be allowed to return to his normal life. And if he's not, he'll go back to the one thing he knows, crime, and wind up back in prison. He's not allowed to move on, this is wrong. Vick falls into this category. Inmates and criminals are humans too, I guess it should be no surprise to you that I stand vehemently against the death penalty.

Why? The one thing in life everyone needs to realize is that people do f**k up and make bad choices but they can learn from them. Ya know there are some guys out there, take a former gang member, who got nabbed and did his time prison, was released and made a valiant attempt to turn his life around but can't because no employer will hire him. If a criminal payed for the consequences of his actions he should be allowed to return to his normal life. And if he's not, he'll go back to the one thing he knows, crime, and wind up back in prison. He's not allowed to move on, this is wrong. Vick falls into this category. Inmates and criminals are humans too, I guess it should be no surprise to you that I stand vehemently against the death penalty.

I agree with Alty's point that if he did return to his life of making millions of dollars (which he is) then he should at least have his wages garnished and donated to anti fighting organisations and have to do a service/volunteer work with an animal rights organisation.
For the rest of his life.

I understand your point, I know people can turn their life around once they have realised their mistake but to me, this goes beyond that.
I don't know if it is just because of my love of animals or I have a warped point of view but to me someone who can do that to a defenseless creature is not right in the head and no amount of jail time or "I'm sorry's" can fix that, they will always be a sick person.

I will use paedophiles as an example: yes they do their time in jail, get let out but would you want one babysitting your child? Would you want that person livng in your town? On your street?
The way someone thinks can't be changed, I personally love chocolate, I can't just say to myself "I don't like it anymore" and it be true... same principle.

They may stop for a while but for some people the temptation is too great.

I will use paedophiles as an example: yes they do their time in jail, get let out but would you want one babysitting your child? Would you want that person livng in your town? On your street?
The way someone thinks can't be changed, I personally love chocolate, I can't just say to myself "I don't like it anymore" and it be true.... same principle.
No way, the only one babysitting my future children are girls who are honor roll students. You're right, prison won't rehabilitate anyone with a psychological disorder, it'll just make them less human. But, provided you were sane when you entered prison and were sane leaving prison, chances are you'd think twice before committing the same crime that landed you in the joint in the first place. And if that is the case, you should be allowed to live a normal life.

True, you can't control your thoughts but you can control your actions and that's really all that matters. Although you love chocolate, if you really wanted to stop eating it, you could very well do that and the easiest way is to avoid as much as you can (within reason).

You forgot the rape stand.r.


Actually as offensive as the idea is to people, the "rape stand" is fairly standard practice for dog breeders.

Otherwise - carry on.

Just as a side note - how many people actually wrote letters to the various groups that were involved in Vick's sentencing? I was shocked that so few were received and yet so many had something to say.

I joined a "keep Michael Vick in Jail" campaign and signed a petition.

I didn't send a letter, didn't know who to send it to.

Judy brings forth a great point. I'm sure letters could be sent to NFL commission and also to the judges/probation officials that sentence and release these men. I don't believe in what he did and I believe that he was wrong and ignorant to take part in such behavior. However, I do believe that he was justly sentenced. I think that the amount of time he received was not only for the dog issue, but for his dishonesty in regards to his involvement, his drug use and dishonesty about that and just as an over all lesson... in you should know better and if you don't know better, maybe after you sit down for a minute and have nothing else to think about you will know better.
I do think that for someone with such privilege that prison no matter the amount of time has changed him.<--it would have to. Was it for the better? Time will tell. I'm prayerful that he will learn and mature and make stronger choices in the future. I don't think that people will trust him and allow him to fully move on and I do think that is somewhat sad. I'm not saying I feel sorry for him, but we have to learn to let go. Never forget, forgive and move on.

Actually as offensive as the idea is to people, the "rape stand" is fairly standard practice for dog breeders.

Otherwise - carry on.

Just as a side note - how many people actually wrote letters to the various groups that were involved in Vick's sentencing? I was shocked that so few were received and yet so many had something to say.

I didn't know about it until much later... it wasn't publicised here otherwise I would have.