I just had a new house built with a lot of 3-way wall switches. Is it all right to turn switches over so when all the levers are down, I know all the lights are off?

The three way switches in my home certainly wouldn't be compatible with such a scheme.

The point of three way switches is turning the light on or off from one of two places. If you are at the upper end of the stairway operating that switch will not change the position of the switch at the lower end of the stairway. Thus the position of that switch compared to other switches at the same location (which would be controlling other completely independent lights) cannot be used as an indicator.

Of course your switches might be at both ends of a hall or opposite ends of a room.

The best you could hope for would be orienting the switches so that the two switches for that light (at the two separate locations) would be in the same direction (both up or both down) when the light is on. Of course the light being on or off would normally be a much more obvious indicator.

Yes, that' the way I normally do them. Both up or both down is on and one up and the other down is off.

You can turn the switch around or swap the wires that are not connected to common.

Lighted 3-way toggle switches are also an option.

You can turn the switch around or swap the wires that are not connected to common.

Lighted 3-way toggle switches are also an option.I don't understand how that would accomplish anything if the incandescent bulb(s) in the fixture were burned out or missing. The burned out bulb(s) wouldn't provide a path completing the circuit powering the indicator light. If any of the bulbs weren't burned out the operating fixture would make it very obvious the fixture was powered, making an indicator on the switches unnecessary.

I am confused or reading this wrong. Lets say you have 2 switches on a 3way installed with both switches down and light is off. Flip one up light is on but other switch is still down. Now flip up that second switch and the light goes off but both switches are now up.

No, Bob you are not confused. I just have the light on when switches the same, you have the light off when the same.

I think the KISS's lighted switch is just so you can find it in the dark, all ways on.

Harold, read my post 6 again. If you alternate flipping switches you can get every possible combo from both down light is off to both up light is off.

All the levers will not be down when the lights are off. I went through this with a customer, once. Took 2 hours to show her, but she finally got it.

Yep, they just don't work that way, make them 4 way and you have even more combinations.

Got another two hours TK?

Don't think I said down, I think I said same position.

Both up = on.
Both down = on.
One up, one down = off.

Throw in a 4 way and its like putting some one in a barrel and telling them to p in the corner.
Slow night, waiting for paint to dry.

I work many Large Houses, if it is Three ways, a couple of 4 ways, whatever, It is preferable to go to ALL switch Banks and turn ALL down and all are off. Anything different is questionable. All down for off is preferable, My opinion.
To correct, all you have to do is turn 1 switch upside down.
I wouldn't swap wires on a switch, I would just turn 1 switch upside down.
TOP doesn't have to be on Top, unless someone responds otherwise.
In the end, at the fron door, you could turn on floods or whatever and know On is On.(Because all the other 3/4 ways are off, any 1 On is On.

I feel that if you turn all the switches (flip them over) so that down = off, then no matter what happens with 3 or 4 way switches, there should always be a method to return them to "home" posistion.

switch 1 up switch 2 up = light on
switch 1 down switch 2 down = light off
switch 1 down switch 2 up = light on

walk across the room
switch 1 up switch 2 still up = light off

HOWEVER
walk back across the room,
switch 2 down switch 1 still up = light on

walk back to the other side of the room
switch 1 down switch 2 still down = light OFF

However, I don't think there is any possible way to guarantee that at all times both switches will be in the "correct" posisiton for off.

As for me, it's a minor detail, one that I try not to let bother me.

..

Two switches, 2 stayes, 2 binary digits.

0 00 OFF
1 01 ON
2 10 ON
3 11 OFF

Let 1 represent UP and 0 represent down. Changing one bit, changes state. 2 bits, no change.

Got another two hours TK?

Don't think I said down, I think I said same position.

Both up = on.
Both down = on.
One up, one down = off.

Throw in a 4 way and its like putting some one in a barrel and telling them to p in the corner.
Slow night, waiting for paint to dry.

I was only referring to the original question.

See, I'm just as slow on the up take as she was TK.

Quote "Is it alright to turn switches over so when all the levers are down, I know all the lights are off?"
You just need to turn 1 switch upsidedown in
Each 3/4 way arrangement. Easier to do 1 in a single gang box as appoaed to a 6 gang box.

Andrew, I think you made an error here."switch 1 up switch 2 up = light on
switch 1 down switch 2 down = light off
" The first statement can be true but #2 is the error. If both up the light is on the moment you move one switch down the light is off, move the other switch down the light comes back on. In a 3 way each switch reverses the last action of the other switch. There is no ON/OFF even labeled on a 3 way switch.

BB: you can take my truth table and get: OFF, ON, ON, OFF or OFF, ON, ON, OFF dependent on moving one switch. Re-defining UP and Down does just that.

I am surprised there is so much confusion on this. Also the ligted switches I install the pilot is not always on, they only light when the fixture is off.

Yep, your right. But it still is an indicator. It's really a find in the dark mode.

Andrew, i think you made an error here."switch 1 up switch 2 up = light on
switch 1 down switch 2 down = light off
" The first statement can be true but #2 is the error. If both up the light is on the moment you move one switch down the light is off, move the other switch down the light comes back on. In a 3 way each switch reverses the last action of the other switch. There is no ON/OFF even labeled on a 3 way switch.

Very possible, I sort of lost myself about half way through that... LOL

If every switch is positioned down and light is off, and every switch is operated up for on, then down for off, without using 3 way-4way as intended for the convenience of controlling lights on or off from multiple locations, then the OP may be happy.

Once someone uses a second switch to trun a light off,leaving the first switch that turned the light on in the up position, then the switch handle issue of having all the handles down and lights off went right out the window.

Certainly not intending any offense to anyone, unless a person has a severe case of Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, ( I have mild case) and this switch handle issue is a something that would cause a OCD sufferer real distress, this topic is silly, quite frankly.

The customer I had that wanted this corrected, finally did admit that she did suffer from OCD, after I spent the time in showing her that unless all the switches are operated on and off individually. Once someone that is unaware of the switches must be operated alone, she saw that the switch positions will change.

For anyone that this is a serious issue, there are switching systems, such as low voltage or power line carrier devices, that do not have indicating positions that may disturb someone.

As far as pilot light in switch handles, both styles are made, on when light is on, and on when light is off.

When you have Floods, Lights and other items switched from Various Locations in Large Houses(Very Large Houses), It is Nice to go to All Switch Banks, throw all switches down and not have to keep checking if the lights went back on. You may be turning back on from another location.
Even though stairs are constantly swapping, I still turn last switch, so when all switches are down, lights are Off? IMOO

Perhaps a push button system is the answer. I myself can be a bit obsessive about things. My wife has helped to back off a little over the years. It still bugs me when furniture is crooked. Swithes bother me a little, but I figure, "what are you going to do"?

If I were in a situation where I had to have a uniform switching system, then I would consider a push button system. I'm not sure about code acceptance, but the plan would work. And you could use 2 switches to as many as you want.

Consider the diagram below, granted, most people wouldn't go through this amount of trouble for a ighting circuit, but you never know when you may need to wire up a "latching circuit".

Good for for starting large machinery from several locations.
Note: For high amp situations, replace the relay with a contactor with a side switch.

You could use a Latching relay with just 1 pushbutton, push on/push off, Parallel to as many switches as you like.

You could use a Latching relay with just 1 pushbutton, push on/push off, Parallel to as many switches as you like.


True, with a latching relay, the possibilties are endless!

In the 70's I started using the Volkswagen Headlight Relay(mechanically Latching)
A Momentary pull of the signal switch toggled between High and Low beam. Great For Large boats requiring 3 way switching, a momentary press of a button with small control wiring also saved a little weight?

In the 70's I started using the Volkswagen Headlight Relay(mechanically Latching)
A Momentary pull of the signal switch toggled between High and Low beam. Great For Large boats requiring 3 way switching, a momentary press of a button with small control wiring also saved a little weight?

You know, I thought about this answer a little, and I'm curious, how does that type of button work anyway? I too have seen them here and there, but I've never seen a diagram for it.

Do you have one?

Push button on, push same button off

Back then it was a Large Rectangular Metal can, almost 2" long, the new ones are the square cube.
You can Make an alarm circuit with one that draws no power except except when in alarm condition(I made this circuit because of this relay), an a need.
This has to be a Normally open circuit, so when circuit closes relay, putting power to the other pole. You will have an armed LED and a Disarm LED, 1 led on each pole, and in series with the LED/resistor you have a reed switch, can be up near wind shield, so with vehicle closed you can place magnet near reed switch to lite 1 LED to show what state it is in(red/green), this is not the arm switch.
A Hidden Reed switch can also Arm/Disarm.

Hey... I think attempting to have all the toggles in a particular position to have the light off or on would defeat the purpose of aving the intemediate switching.. dont you think?? U know you now av to walk to 2 separate banks of switches "probably in the dark" to ensure the toggles are in a particular position!. I think what is to be born in mind here is that the change of position of any 1 toggle could change the state of all the other toggles... ie from n/o to n/c and vice versa... but don't let it wreck great minds and just use these switches for the purpose it was designed for... ie... to alleviate having to cross a huge corridor , climb a staircase or walk across a room.. in the dark to reach the switch!!

OK guys... I assume all this is in da USA.. rite.. n certainly, the code of practise is different than in SA... but the theory that a lot the guys are trying out here is based on 2 pole swiches... back in SA a 3 pole would be used at the beginning and end of the switched circuit and 4 pole intermediate would be used in between... 2 strapper conductors would be looped from switch to switch with the control wire emanating from centre pole of 1 of the 3 pole switches... and a constant live feeding the centre pole at the other end.. ie 3 pole switch... every 3pole switch would av 2 positions at any given time i.e. n/o & n/c between the 3 poles irrespective of the position of the toggle... and your 4 pole would have 2 n/o & 2 n/o at any given... so it makes you think.. eh?. but I guess da USA does it differently with relays etc.. (judging by some of the sketches).. I mean guys... a relay to handle a couple of lites..?

Electric wiz, I would do as I first said, No relays, All down is off, very simple, I was bored as Andrew and was just waiting for a response, just talking about a relay, not really practicble for a House..

Electric wiz, I would do as I first said, No relays, All down is off, very simple, I was bored as Andrew and was just waiting for a response, just talking about a relay, not really practicble for a House..

I agree, most of the past few post were just fun electrical talk.

Electrical Wiz, looks like we use different Terms over here, We call those switches 3 ways(or single pole, doublethrow), What you call Strappers, we call Travellers.
Our 4 ways "sound" different as well, its not 2 N.O. switches, it actually swaps the wires, like a polarity switch.
The question from the Poster was, "was it OK to turn a switch upside down for personal preference".
We all know its OK, some feel its not as Important.