My wife filed a for a TRO and it was granted. Both her and our son are listed on the TRO. The hearing was continued until Nov. 20 but today my wife's father called me wanting to know about a payment that my wife and I owe him. I told him that we could work something out if I would be allowed to see my son. Is there anyway that my wife could get the restraining order lifted before the hearing on Nov.20 or will we have to wait until then? We also were sent to mediation on Sep.15 to decide custody and visitation for our son but I would rather work it out without the court being involved. Is there a way to do this even though the court has already set dates for the hearing?

She may be able to drop the charges. It depends on the prosecutor.

There isn't any prosecutor. She was only granted a temporary restraining order until the hearing to show cause for a permanent restraining order. No criminal charges were filed and the whole thing is hearsay anyway. I produced witnesses and testimony to counter her claims and the hearing was postponed till a trial on Nov. 20. I just want to know if there's a way for her to end the restraining order before the hearing so I can visit my son.

If there is a hearing there is a prosecutor.

This is a family law question Scott. If you don't know what your talking about then don't answer the question.

Maybe in your area restraining orders are solely within the realm of Family court. But, from my knowledge a RO is a criminal proceeding. It falls under Domestic Violence which is a criminal act.

I have been informed that I can make an objection to a pro temp judges orders within 10 days. I am wondering if this is worth pursuing and what will be the outcome of such an objection? There is currently a TRO in effect and I believe that The TRO was issued incorrectly based on hearsay and no factual evidence such as police reports or even witness statements. I only have 2 days to object. Should I inform my lawyer of this concern?

Yes, if you have an attorney you should keep them informed of everything.

TROs are generally granted just for the asking to err on the side of safety. Its when the TRO is made permanent that real evidence needs to be given. If no protest is made the TRO will generally be made permanent as a matter of course.

Yes, if you have an attorney you should keep them informed of everything.

TROs are generally granted just for the asking to err on the side of safety. Its when the TRO is made permanent that real evidence needs to be given. If no protest is made the TRO will generally be made permanent as a matter of course.

Sorry for the lip Scott. I got a little frustrated. Divorce is difficult and I really miss my son. I'm going to miss his second b-day this Saturday. Sorry for the disrespect. Maybe you have some info that could help me to be able to see him. Thanks.

In California restraining orders issued in family court are civil proceedings. Yes, there can be a parallel criminal case with criminal restraining orders but that is not always the case. I'd say that the majority of restraining orders in California are civil with no criminal companion action. So there is no prosecutor.

Yes, you can modify the TRO before trial or terminate it! File a motion to modify or terminate the restraining order or submit a stipulation to do so.

Take a look at California Family Code Section 235, which provides:

"Nothing in this part precludes either party from applying to the court for modification or revocation of the temporary restraining order provided for in this part or further temporary orders or an expanded temporary ex parte order. (Stats. 192, c. 162 (A.B.2650), para. 10, operative Jan. 1, 1994.)"

Have your lawyer contact your ex about stipulating to modify/terminate the TRO. If she won't agree, file a motion, which you should be able to get heard before your trial date.

Just as an aside, I've had several cases (in fact one right now) where there is both a criminal DV case ongoing and a family court TRO in place arising out of the same incident. The criminal court issues its own restraining order and the family court has its own. So there are two restraining orders running concurrently and the family law judge always issues the standard warning that if the criminal restraining order is more restrictive than the family court TRO, the criminal one must be followed. In other words, the more restrictive of the two takes precedence. Further, the family court TRO always trails the outcome of the criminal DV case. That is, the family court just reissues the TRO until the criminal case is over and only conducts its trial after disposition of the criminal DV action because of the defendant's 5th Amendment right to remain silent. The idea is that this right would be violated if the civil TRO trial were allowed to go forward before the criminal case. The reasons are obvious.

I have been informed that I can make an objection to a pro temp judges orders within 10 days. I am wondering if this is worth pursuing and what will be the outcome of such an objection? There is currently a TRO in effect and I believe that The TRO was issued incorrectly based on hearsay and no factual evidence such as police reports or even witness statements. I only have 2 days to object. Should I inform my lawyer of this concern?

I think it's a waste of time objecting. The pro tem's orders have to be approved by one of the regular judges I believe and this is a bit of a formality. If the objection is based on some factual call of the pro tem in simply issuing the TRO, what's the point? On what basis are you going to object, you just don't like his decision, don't like his interpretation of the evidence? You can't win on that basis. The case hasn't even been tried yet.

In California restraining orders issued in family court are civil proceedings. Yes, there can be a parallel criminal case with criminal restraining orders but that is not always the case. I'd say that the majority of restraining orders in California are civil with no criminal companion action. So there is no prosecutor.

Yes, you can modify the TRO before trial or terminate it! File a motion to modify or terminate the restraining order or submit a stipulation to do so.

Take a look at California Family Code Section 235, which provides:

"Nothing in this part precludes either party from applying to the court for modification or revocation of the temporary restraining order provided for in this part or further temporary orders or an expanded temporary ex parte order. (Stats. 192, c. 162 (A.B.2650), para. 10, operative Jan. 1, 1994.)"

Have your lawyer contact your ex about stipulating to modify/terminate the TRO. If she won't agree, file a motion, which you should be able to get heard before your trial date.

My lawyer doesn't seem to be very proactive. I feel like he just doesn't care that I have to wait until Nov.20 to see my son. Of course it will probably earn him more money to drag it out. I was referred to another lawyer who may be a little more concerened about my case. Do I have to have a lawyer file for termination or modification of the TRO? What will my grounds be for asking that the TRO be modified or terminated? Her decleration didn't say I abused the kids or anything, just that she was fearful I would abscound with them which is in fact what she has done. Thanks for your post Cadillac59

My lawyer doesn't seem to be very proactive. I feel like he just doesn't care that I have to wait until Nov.20 to see my son. Of course it will probably earn him more money to drag it out. I was refered to another lawyer who may be a little more concerened about my case. Do I have to have a lawyer file for termination or modification of the TRO? What will my grounds be for asking that the TRO be modified or terminated? Her decleration didn't say I abused the kids or anything, just that she was fearful I would abscound with them which is in fact what she has done. Thanks for your post Cadillac59

If you are represented by a lawyer your lawyer has to act for you until you dismiss him or substitute someone else in his place. But, yeah, you have to file a motion to do anything now with the TRO before the trial date. What are the grounds? I suppose that you want to see the kids, haven't seen them, they are suffering over this when they didn't do anything to deserve it and it's unfair to make them and you wait months to see each other when your relationship with them had nothing to do with why your ex brought the TRO in the first place. It's absurd that you have to wait three months to have access to your kids. In fact, it's disgraceful. Once you've finished mediation try filing an ex parte with alternative relief being an OST (order shortening time) to set a hearing on your OSC for custody/visitation. That's what I'd do if you were my client and that's what all my friends who do this kind of work would do for theirs .

I wouldn't worry about trying to terminate the restraining order yet. Let that go to trial in November. Just ask for custody and visitation orders. At the very least you are entitled to those right now. You'll get them if you ask for them before November. If you don't you won't.

If you are represented by a lawyer your lawyer has to act for you until you dismiss him or substitute someone else in his place. But, yeah, you have to file a motion to do anything now with the TRO before the trial date. What are the grounds? I suppose that you want to see the kids, haven't seen them, they are suffering over this when they didn't do anything to deserve it and it's unfair to make them and you wait months to see each other when your relationship with them had nothing to do with why your ex brought the TRO in the first place. It's absurd that you have to wait three months to have access to your kids. In fact, it's disgraceful. Once you've finished mediation try filing an ex parte with alternative relief being an OST (order shortening time) to set a hearing on your OSC for custody/visitation. That's what I'd do if you were my client and that's what all my friends who do this kind of work would do for theirs .

I wouldn't worry about trying to terminate the restraining order yet. Let that go to trial in November. Just ask for custody and visitation orders. At the very least you are entitled to those right now. You'll get them if you ask for them before November. If you don't you won't.

Thanks cadillac59. Your post has been very helpful. I will see if my lawyer will file these motions and if not then I plan on talking to a lawyer that was referred to me by a group called Shared Parenting of America. They have been really helpful with information on how to receive equal custody and visitation. Aparrently Fresno courts can be biased when it comes to custody. I feel a little itiminated by mediation. What types of things am I allowed to produce to the mediator? For example my declaration on the TRO, statements from people at church or parenting class attendance.

Thanks cadillac59. Your post has been very helpful. I will see if my lawyer will file these motions and if not then I plan on talking to a lawyer that was refered to me by a group called Shared Parenting of America. They have been really helpful with information on how to recieve equal custody and visitation. Aparrently Fresno courts can be biased when it comes to custody. I feel a little itiminated by mediation. What types of things am I allowed to produce to the mediator? For example my declaration on the TRO, statements from people at church or parenting class attendance.

At mediation you can present anything you want. The mediator might not pay attention, but it won't hurt to try. You'll do fine so don't worry about it. I can tell from the way you have presented yourself here that you are a decent guy who just wants to be a dad to his kids. So just be honest and sincere at mediation and you'll be okay. And that's not patronizing. It's true.

You've got to do the motion, as I said, and since mediation is right around the corner you should probably just wait until it is over and then file the ex parte/OST.

I do this for a living (I'm not trying to sound haughty but it's true) and I'm a Certified Family Law Specialist in California and I've been a lawyer for 20 years. Two of my good friends are also Certified Family Law Specialists in my county and we talk all the time about cases and judges and how to do things. The point is, I'm not one of these participants who has a disclaimer saying my advice in not a legal opinion. No. My advice IS a legal opinion in California and I'll stake my reputation on it. I'm also admitted to practice in Washington State but I am careful about giving advice about Washington because I don't live or practice there (even though I am licensed in Washington and am an active member of the Washington State Bar Association [WBSA]).

At mediation you can present anything you want. The mediator might not pay attention, but it won't hurt to try. You'll do fine so don't worry about it. I can tell from the way you have presented yourself here that you are a decent guy who just wants to be a dad to his kids. So just be honest and sincere at mediation and you'll be okay. And that's not patronizing. It's true.

You've got to do the motion, as I said, and since mediation is right around the corner you should probably just wait until it is over and then file the ex parte/OST.

I do this for a living (I'm not trying to sound haughty but it's true) and I'm a Certified Family Law Specialist in California and I've been a lawyer for 20 years. Two of my good friends are also Certified Family Law Specialists in my county and we talk all the time about cases and judges and how to do things. The point is, I'm not one of these participants who has a disclaimer saying my advice in not a legal opinion. No. My advice IS a legal opinion in California and I'll stake my reputation on it. I'm also admitted to practice in Washington State but I am careful about giving advice about Washington because I don't live or practice there (even though I am licensed in Washington and am an active member of the Washington State Bar Association [WBSA]).

Thanks again for your advice cadillac59. You have been the most helpful of all that I have found on this site. Unforetunatly it looks like I will have to wait to see my children but your advice has really calmed me down. Maybe my wife will back of a little but then again maybe not. If she had a lawyer it would probably be easier to get through to her. I signed up for a court approved parenting class so that can't hurt and I have plenty of people to support my claims as a good father. Again thanks for your advice.

Thanks to stevetcg for his kind words [you'd be surprised what a thankless job this is, doing family law!]

When it comes to anything other than CA family law, I'm the first to say, "hey, I'm not sure, but this might be right, check it out first." Even if you asked me about CA landlord-tenant law I'd say the same thing... check it with someone who does that stuff. But at least with CA family law I can speak with confidence.

Is there a way to do this even though the court has already set dates for the hearing?Hello m:

No. The hearing is the earliest that ANY testimony will be heard... You won't get an earlier hearing... And, I would NOT take her word for ANYTHING. In fact, you shouldn't even be CONTACTING her to hear her word. You can't even contact her through a third party. So even if there WAS something that she could do, you CAN'T ask her.

excon

Hello m:

No. The hearing is the earliest that ANY testimony will be heard... You won't get an earlier hearing... And, I would NOT take her word for ANYTHING. In fact, you shouldn't even be CONTACTING her to hear her word. You can't even contact her through a third party. So even if there WAS something that she could do, you CAN'T ask her.

excon

I definitely have not attempted to contact her at all. If she doesn't want to talk to me then I respect that. Her dad contacted me over a loan he made us. He suggested that if I would make the payment on the loan then maybe we wouldn't have to go to court. I'm not stupid. I am trying to be able to mediate all our issues outside of court because I don't think my wife realizes that things might not go her way in court either. It's better to come to a decision on our own. I might try to get a modification on the restraining order but the court probably won't. I have to exhaust every avenue available to be able to see my son. Witholding our son from me just isn't right!

Hello m:

No. The hearing is the earliest that ANY testimony will be heard... You won't get an earlier hearing... And, I would NOT take her word for ANYTHING. In fact, you shouldn't even be CONTACTING her to hear her word. You can't even contact her through a third party. So even if there WAS something that she could do, you CAN'T ask her.

excon

This is NOT true. He can file motion to modify the TRO before the hearing date (Cal. Fam. Code Section 235) and I'd recommend he do so. He doesn't have to wait until November to see his son. Nonsense.

As far as contacting the ex through third parties, he can have his lawyer contact her for purposes having to do with the TRO without violating the order. I've had several cases like this and the lawyer is typically the go-between. Additionally, most TROs state no contact " except for brief and peaceful contact as required for court-ordered visitation of children unless a criminal protective order says otherwise." [mandatory form TRO, p.2, para. (b)]

This is NOT true. He can file motion to modify the TRO before the hearing date (Cal. Fam. Code Section 235) and I'd recommend he do so. He doesn't have to wait until November to see his son. Nonsense.

As far as contacting the ex through third parties, he can have his lawyer contact her for purposes having to do with the TRO without violating the order.

I read through Cal. Fam. Code Section 235 and it says that either party can file motion to modify of revoke the TRO. I plan on substituting attorney's shortly. The lawyer I have doesn't seem interested in helping me to see my child before Nov. I obtained a form FR-111 which is an OBJECTION TO FAMILY COURT SERVICES REPORT AND RECOMMENDATION. Is this form even the right avenue to make the objection to a pro tem judge? I know that you said it might be fruitless to even make an objection because of insufficient grounds. Do you think this is even worth a shot?

I read through Cal. Fam. Code Section 235 and it says that either party can file motion to modify of revoke the TRO. I plan on substituting attorney's shortly. The lawyer I have doesn't seem interested in helping me to see my child before Nov. I obtained a form FR-111 which is an OBJECTION TO FAMILY COURT SERVICES REPORT AND RECOMMENDATION. Is this form even the right avenue to make the objection to a pro tem judge? I know that you said it might be fruitless to even make an objection because of insufficient grounds. Do you think this is even worth a shot?


That sounds like a local form your county uses probably to tell the judge you disagree with the recommendation of the mediator. Since you haven't been to mediation yet it's too soon to do anything with that form. Typically before a case is heard (on your first trip to court) the bailiff asks you to sign a consent form to have a Judge Pro Tem hear the case. Once you do it's too late to change your mind. My assumption is that you stipulated to the Pro Tem Judge when you went to court the first time.

Like I said before, I doubt that challenging the Judge Pro Tem's decision is worthwhile. Since you have mediation on Sept. 15, you can do is one of two things. First, you could file your motion for custody/visitation modification now. It will be set for hearing after your mediation date. Then just show up in court with the mediation report and see how it goes. Alternatively, you could wait until after mediation and then file an ex parte with alternative relief being the OST (order shortening time) and have it set for hearing then. But frankly, I can't see any reason to wait. Just see if you can time the setting of the hearing to a date within about a week after mediation to allow time for the mediator to get the report and recommendation to you (ask Family Court Services how long it takes after mediation for them to get their reports out). You want to make sure that the mediation report is ready before the court date because the judge has to confirm you've been to mediation before he can make a decision on custody (mediation is required by Fam. Code section 3170).

That sounds like a local form your county uses probably to tell the judge you disagree with the recommendation of the mediator. Since you haven't been to mediation yet it's too soon to do anything with that form. Typically before a case is heard (on your first trip to court) the bailiff asks you to sign a consent form to have a Judge Pro Tem hear the case. Once you do it's too late to change your mind. My assumption is that you stipulated to the Pro Tem Judge when you went to court the first time.

Like I said before, I doubt that challenging the Judge Pro Tem's decision is worthwhile. Since you have mediation on Sept. 15, you can do is one of two things. First, you could file your motion for custody/visitation modification now. It will be set for hearing after your mediation date. Then just show up in court with the mediation report and see how it goes. Alternatively, you could wait until after mediation and then file an ex parte with alternative relief being the OST (order shortening time) and have it set for hearing then. But frankly, I can't see any reason to wait. Just see if you can time the setting of the hearing to a date within about a week after mediation to allow time for the mediator to get the report and recommendation to you (ask Family Court Services how long it takes after mediation for them to get their reports out). You want to make sure that the mediation report is ready before the court date because the judge has to confirm you've been to mediation before he can make a decision on custody (mediation is required by Fam. Code section 3170).

What form is used for custody/visitation modification? Also do I have to have my lawyer submit the form, because I'm going to substitute attorneys and I don't have an appoitment with the new attorney until Aug. 25? I have the form for substituion of attorney. Should I just fill it out and change attorney's now? I don't know how much of my retainer he already used and I'm a little bit strapped for cash.

What form is used for custody/visitation modification? Also do I have to have my lawyer submit the form, because I'm going to substitute attorneys and I don't have an appoitment with the new attorney until Aug. 25? I have the form for substituion of attorney. Should I just fill it out and change attorney's now? I don't know how much of my retainer he already used and I'm a little bit strapped for cash.

You can wait to substitute out your present attorney until you decide to hire someone else, and the new attorney will fill out the form for you and file it. The form for filing the motion is the mandatory OSC and Application for Order and Supporting Declaration forms (FL-300, FL-310).

I think you mentioned once being in Fresno County. You might want to take a look carefully at their local rules on mediation and child custody hearings. This is one of those matters that vary considerably from county-to-county. Fresno does things VERY differently compared to other counties. http://www.fresnosuperiorcourt.org/_pdfs/Fresno%20County%20Local%20Rules%20(1-1-08).pdf

You can wait to substitute out your present attorney until you decide to hire someone else, and the new attorney will fill out the form for you and file it. The form for filing the motion is the mandatory OSC and Application for Order and Supporting Declaration forms (FL-300, FL-310).

I think you mentioned once being in Fresno County. You might want to take a look carefully at their local rules on mediation and child custody hearings. This is one of those matters that vary considerably from county-to-county. Fresno does things VERY differently compared to other counties. http://www.fresnosuperiorcourt.org/_pdfs/Fresno%20County%20Local%20Rules%20(1-1-08).pdf

It looks to me that the mediators report doesn't have to be prestented until two days before the hearing for child custody/visitation. Is that going to mean that I won't be able to get a sooner hearing before Nov. 20?

It looks to me that the mediators report doesn't have to be prestented until two days before the hearing for child custody/visitation. Is that going to mean that I won't be able to get a sooner hearing before Nov. 20?

Not at all. File a motion and they are usually set for hearing (absent an order shortening time) within about 5 weeks of filing.

Not at all. File a motion and they are usually set for hearing (absent an order shortening time) within about 5 weeks of filing.

I sure haven't been hearing a lot about the mediation going in my favor. Especially with the TRO. Mostly I've heard that the mediators in Fresno county are biased towards men and because I have a criminal record that probably won't help. Now my wife is all pissed off because the hearing got continued and she sent me an email saying she's definitely going to wait until the hearing on Nov. 20. I am trying to get her to mediate with me through a new woman lawyer that I hired but I guess its up to her at this point.

I sure haven't been hearing a lot about the mediation going in my favor. Especially with the TRO. Mostly I've heard that the mediators in Fresno county are biased towards men and because I have a criminal record that probably won't help. Now my wife is all pissed off because the hearing got continued and she sent me an email saying she's definetly going to wait until the hearing on Nov. 20. I am trying to get her to mediate with me through a new woman lawyer that I hired but I guess its up to her at this point.

In my experience mediators pay little or almost no attention to the criminal record of one of the parties or the presence of a TRO in making custody recommendations. And the reason is obvious: You don't lose your custodial or visitation rights simply because you have a criminal conviction (unless of course the crime directly involves the children).

People with restraining orders against them and/or criminal records get plenty of visitation time with their kids every day in family law court in every county in this state. Mediation will probably turn out better than you expect.

In my experience mediators pay little or almost no attention to the criminal record of one of the parties or the presence of a TRO in making custody recommendations. And the reason is obvious: You don't lose your custodial or visitation rights simply because you have a criminal conviction (unless of course the crime directly involves the children).

People with restraining orders against them and/or criminal records get plenty of visitation time with their kids every day in family law court in every county in this state. Mediation will probably turn out better than you expect.

Hey Cadillac. I'm finding it difficult to share your enthusiasm about mediation even though I realize that in theory the mediators should not be biased. What do you think about trying to delay mediation until after the hearing on the restraining order? With the TRO out of the way it would be less likely to influence the mediator. I know this would mean a longer amount of time before I could see my child but I feel like it might be worth it to wait. Also do you know what form I would need to petition the court for modification of the TRO and how could I make a motion to delay mediation? I know you mentioned this to me earlier and it can't hurt to give it a shot even if the court denies my motion. At least it could show my desire to pursue this matter especially in espect to my child.

Hey Cadillac. I'm finding it difficult to share your enthusiasm about mediation even though I realize that in theory the mediators should not be biased. What do you think about trying to delay mediation until after the hearing on the restraining order? With the TRO out of the way it would be less likely to influence the mediator. I know this would mean a longer amount of time before I could see my child but I feel like it might be worth it to wait. Also do you know what form I would need to petition the court for modification of the TRO and how could I make a motion to delay mediation? I know you mentioned this to me earlier and it can't hurt to give it a shot even if the court denies my motion. At least it could show my desire to persue this matter espesially in espect to my child.

I can't see any benefit in delaying mediation. Especially since you don't know what the result of the trial on the TRO will be. You are going to get some access time with your son, most likely unsupervised, so I wouldn't delay getting the issue of visitation before the court.

To file a motion for modification of the existing custody orders, you use the OSC form (FL-300) and attach the Application for Order and Supporting Declaration (FL-310), and to that attach a copy of the TRO. Be sure to check off the box "Modification" along with the boxes for Child Custody and Visitation. If you end up self-represented you can get help in filling out the form and complying with any local rules from the Family Law Facilitator's Office at the courthouse.

I can't see any benefit in delaying mediation. Especially since you don't know what the result of the trial on the TRO will be. You are going to get some access time with your son, most likely unsupervised, so I wouldn't delay getting the issue of visitation before the court.

To file a motion for modification of the existing custody orders, you use the OSC form (FL-300) and attach the Application for Order and Supporting Declaration (FL-310), and to that attach a copy of the TRO. Be sure to check off the box "Modification" along with the boxes for Child Custody and Visitation. If you end up self-represented you can get help in filling out the form and complying with any local rules from the Family Law Facilitator's Office at the courthouse.

When I motion for modification of custody, won't the TRO block the court from actually modifiying custody/visitation? Isn't the court just going to say that there's a TRO in place and that they can't modify custody/visitation until that issue is resolved?

When I motion for modification of custody, won't the TRO block the court from actually modifiying custody/visitation? Isn't the court just going to say that there's a TRO in place and that they can't modify custody/visitation until that issue is resolved?

No. FC 235 says that TROs are modifiable. I already explained that.

No. FC 235 says that TROs are modifiable. I already explained that.

I am wondering what can I bring to mediation as far as declarations from friends, community, and others concerning how I had previously related to my son. Is there anything else I can do to prove to the mediator that I am a good father and it is in the best interest of my son to have a fair amount of custodial time with me? The mediation papers say that anything that I want to introduce to the mediator needs to be given to my wife before mediation. How long before the mediation do I need to serve her with these supporting declarations so that I can bring them to mediation? Is there anything else you can tell me that will help me with mediation?

I am wondering what can I bring to mediation as far as declarations from friends, community, and others concerning how I had previously related to my son. Is there anything else I can do to prove to the mediator that I am a good father and it is in the best interest of my son to have a fair amount of custodial time with me? The mediation papers say that anything that I want to introduce to the mediator needs to be given to my wife before mediation. How long before the mediation do I need to serve her with these supporting declarations so that I can bring them to mediation? Is there anything else you can tell me that will help me with mediation?

Look, the questions you are asking about serving documents on the other side before they are given to the mediator at mediation are governed by local rule, in your case Fresno County Superior Court Local Rules. I don't practice in Fresno County and every county is different they way it conducts mediation and how it uses mediation reports. Some counties don't even allow mediators to make recommendations and the judges in those counties never hear about what happened at mediation. Other counties allow recommendations. Yours does. Read the Fresno County Superior Court local family law rules (which are available online), ask a local attorney who knows the rules, or contact the family law facilitators office, or Family Court Services for the answer. It's strictly a Fresno County question. I'm not going to take the time to look up the rule for you. That's beyond the scope of this board and beyond my interest in participating.