So my wife and I got married young - I was 22, she 21. We met at college and dated for a year and then we're a part for 8 months and then got back together for another year before marrying.

During the summer after our first year of dating my wife fell in love with another man. She has always had a hard time being alone (drug abuse and a hard time taking care of herself, getting up in the morning) and after two weeks of being a part over the summer she slept and continued to have an intense emotional relationship with her ex-boyfriends high school friend. This absolutely destroyed me, especially since we were on a lease to live together next year. I had hope for us, that she would come back to me but she never did. She moved out and lived with him. Two months later she came back to me, professing her undying love for me. She said she was scared to committ to me and ran off with her other boyfriend because she was 'so happy' with me and believed our relationship to be her final one.

Anyway, we got married a year later. I have to admit I was pretty harsh on her for being with that other guy. I had overheard them having sex and read her diary (because I wanted the truth about her feelings for me - she was leading me on) which talked about how much she loved that other guy - way way more than she loved me. She chose him in every way. This made me really sad and hurt and I took it out on her quoting her diary to hurt her and show how much it hurt me.

She resented me a lot for this but for the past few months ( we've been married 8 months now) I have completely stopped bring her ex up and all the things she did with him.

I feel my wife is unstable and always has been unstable. When we were first dating she cheated on me a lot and was always running off with other guys, she has cheated on every one she has been with. However, that has all ended but I feel her unstableness has transpired in other ways. She is monogamous and does love me, however she does not ever just let us be happy.

Nothing is ever good enough for her. She changes her mind about me ever other hour and this causes me to be very distant from her because I feel she is just going to 'turn' and I'm going to get hurt because I do love her very much. At nights she is usually very loving and nice but in the morning I am usually woken up to her being very angry for something completely inane (sound I made, phone rang and woke her up, etc.) She calls me dumb and stupid and rips me a new one making me feel very bad about myself. Then she changes later in the evening calling me baby and being very loving. I am very distant because I think she is just going to change, something will set her off and she will tell me how much she hates me and start to attack me. She doesn't understand why I can't just be loving to her all the time and this makes her even more angry.

The last fight we had was last night. I want to visit my family (I moved near her to be with her) and she didn't want me to because of business stuff that she can't do on her own. She finally just told me to leave and get a divorce. She was serious. I broke down crying and we talked it out and she basically was really upset over how distant I was being. If I tell her it's because I'm scared of her (when she gets mad she will often become violent) she tells me I'm abusing her by making everything 'her fault.' If I remember something differently than her, I am 'gas-lighting' her and being abusive which she attacks me emotionally for and threatens to leave. Apparently she had been getting mad because I had been being distant (although I was especially distant because she attacked me a few days before). So, she told me how she liked to be touched and I was doing that all last night and this morning. This morning I decided to go surprise her with a few things from Target that she wanted. I gently woke her with a kiss and told her where I was going. She told me to get a few more things, I said OK, then she said she was going to write a list. I expressed to her our financial issues and that I was only going for a few things - but to write a list anyway. She got so upset and said "I should have never made up with you." blah blah slamming doors in my face and threatening to attack me if I continued to talk to her or be nice to her.

This is so disheartening, I was being really affectionate and putting me heart into it and then she just 'turns' again. It just makes me want to cry - I get way more hurt because I thought she wanted to make up and be all nice to each other, and then she just turns on me and the knife goes in further. Nothing I EVER do is good enough for her. She has to push everything to the limit.

She chooses to fight about EVERYTHING. It seems like she has a Jekyll/Hyde disorder. AM I the one to blame for her switches? Why can't she just be happy with me and let me love her? When she turns on me I secretly vow not to let her being nice get to me because I know it is fake.

She has also admitted to being a pathological liar in the past - which she disregards now. She has done a lot of inhumane ed up , and has been emotionally abusive. But, If I say anything like that she tells me I'm being a whiny baby and "do you think I want to be with you" and all these mean things. She even went on my computer and deleted all my diary entries and wrote instead "I am a whiny little baby" on all of them. I don't try to say anything mean, I just want to be nice and hopefully she won't do those or say those hurtful things but she never stops. She will just turn and become cold as ice and be the meanest person I have ever met.

It breaks my heart because when she's nice, she is soooo nice and sweet and loving and my dream girl. I can't take the Hyde personality though.. I don't know what to do.

HELP! Thanks. She threatens to divorce me all the time, should I just go? She's my whole life though. I think I'd die if I left.

I'm not a bad person. I have dated girls and treated them like princess. I'm not abusive.. she is manipulative and twists everything I say or do. She's always telling me what I am thinking or saying or doing which I'm not! If I try to defend myself against her allegations, I'm "keeping score". Even right now as I write this, I can hear her telling me I'm a "whiny little baby" and I feel like crap for being so. This is just in the bad times.

In the good times, it is good! She is kind and sweet and supportive and I believe she just wants to be loved and taken care of. I don't want to give that up.

That's what I want to give her very badly. I do want to just love and take care of someone, it's been my dream as well. However, she is very irrational sometimes. Like the Target thing, I'd love to be able to buy her a bunch of thing but I'm unemployed right now. So she thinks I'm a liar and selfish when I can't do such a thing. I still want to take care of her and when I get a job I will. I wish she would just understand that something's aren't plausible right now no matter how much we want them. It's not something to fight over.

She is playing a BIG manipulative game on you to let everything be her way and about her. You need to tell her when she threatens you with divorce that she's the one who keeps threatening that she wants one.
For your sanity sake you need OUT
She is miserable with her self and taking it out on you.

If she wants this to last she needs to learn to compromise and get some counselling.

She obviously has issues.

Has she ever been to a therapist? She sounds bipolar.

You shouldn't have to put up with this.

You two need therapy.

Try going to this website: A Shrink for Men (http://shrink4men.wordpress.com)

I think that you will find a lot of your wife there - I suggest, from what you've described (and I always hesitate to make a 'diagnosis'), that she may have Borderline Personality Disorder or even Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

I would also strongly recommend that you should speak to a counselor on your own. It is extremely difficult to manage another person's behavior when it is as dysfunctional as you describe. Regardless of what her actual problem is, you need to get some support for yourself and you need to understand why you are in a relationship with someone that is like this.

If you don't, eventually you will feel drained and worn out and she will move on to someone else. If you do, you may begin to understand what the dynamic between you is and you'll be able to make an informed choice about whether you want to stay.

She does sound like something is wrong. Is she still doing drugs? Or does she have any past emotional issues? Or did something really bad happen while you were apart? I know its hard to just talk when people are mad or what not but try sitting her down and tell her you are worried and why. Don't blame her or yourself for anything. Sounds like there is an underline problem possibly. I think she does love you or else she would have already divorced you. Just be understanding even if you don't understand. Being married is tough being there for each other is the best thing you can do for her even if she is trying to bite off your head!

Thank you very much for your responses. They give me a lot of perspective and help so much.

She was recently diagnosed with ADD although I think it goes beyond that. The medication helps a little - mainly with getting her out of bed in the morning but not with much else. She goes to therapy but I don't know how much that is happening. The other day she came back from it upset that I wasn't wearing the clothes she wants me to wear and started attacking me. I think she issues were brought to the surface and she resents me.

She still smokes weed a lot - sometimes wakes and bakes until the night. I think this causes her to change a lot too. She has always been impulsive and changes her mind all the time. It's an emotional rollercoaster.

Like, after she got mad at me for the Target thing, she came back and hugged me and apologized - I bust out crying because I was feeling so hurt before and then she just goes and is nice and says sorry. It's a crazy, emotional ride. Then later she got mad at me and threatened all these things because I went to the library (she had asked me to) without waking her up (she was taking a nap). I was trying to be nice as I was only gone 5 minutes but she was furious. She started texting me all these things like "you're in trouble" and so I rushed back only to be attacked and harassed by her. She wouldn't let up - even when I apologized and hugged her profusely. She is just back and forth. She'll tell me she hates me and then she says she loves me 30 minutes later. I'm only trying to do right by her to the best of my abilities.

I thought she was just like this in college because she was unstable and didn't have her life in order, she said it was just because she was lost but I think it is just who she is. I feel blinded to her evils because her nice side is so great. I wish I had the strength to leave, every time I try though I miss her and feel heartbroken without her. We do everything together.

It just hasn't been the same since she left me for that other guy. She questions our relationship a lot and says I love her more than she loves me.

She is very spoiled and selfish and was brought up that way. I hadn't realized it because she likes to shop at Wal-mart and stuff and didn't seem very snobby. But her personality is effected by the way she was brought up definitely. I was thinking maybe she is borderline too.

Thank you again. This helps.

It sounds like maybe you need to go to counselling with her occasionally and tell the therapist your side of the story because I am sure she is painting a different picture for him and you could use some couples counselling to help her understand she is treating you like a child.

13 Signs Your Wife or Girlfriend is a Borderline or a Narcissist A Shrink for Men (http://shrink4men.wordpress.com/2009/01/21/relationships-with-borderline-narcissistic-personality-women/)

THanks for the link, this article describes our relationship and how I'm feeling (like I'm going crazy!) very well. She does everything on that list including blaming me for EVERYTHING.. if she drops her GPS, it's my fault and reason enough to attack me.. she castrates me every day when I am good to her and able. I don't need this.

She also makes all the rules and changes her mind constantly when I'm just adjusting to her first demands. It's got me running around with my head cut off.

Anyway, thanks for the help. So, where do I go from here? I guess therapy?

The dreaded weed will only exacerbate the situation and it sounds as if the counselor is not doing much good either.

Ask yourself if you believe that it's sustainable to stay in a marriage with someone that is this dysfunctional. Do you want to be the vessel into which they spew all their bad moods, anger and abuse, or be their therapist? Either choice sounds pretty awful to me.

Ask yourself why you stay. Fear of loss? Need for her approval?

Relationships should bring us joy and happiness most of the time. This relationship seems to bring you neither. You are actually being emotionally and physically abused. Luckily you don't have children.

I think that YOU need to make the choice and give her the ultimatum. She either does something about her behavior or you're moving out and staying out.

As you've already guessed, she's abusive. I do not believe you have a future with this woman. She is more likely to treat you worse in the future than better.
The relationship is destroying you. Save yourself and divorce her.

Her sweetness seems sweeter than it is because it's such a relief after her cruelty and hostility. But no one should be treated the way she is treating you.

Good luck!

So, I went to her and asked if she would be willing to do couples therapy with me. She said she'd talk about it with her therapist.

Then she came to me and said she didn't want to do therapy with me... ever. She thought I had 'something up my sleeve' and didn't like the look on my face when I asked her. She said I was trying ruin something good in her life (her therapy). So, I said we could go to my therapist and she said she dislikes my therapist. So, I asked her if I got a new therapist would she compromise and see them. She said probably not. She always gives me hope and then squashes it. A while ago she entertained the idea of me going to see her therapist and now when I bring it up she squashes it. I feel demoralized. It's my fault, I wasted the opportunity.. although I know there never would have been an opportunity because that opportunity was fake in all actuality.

I said I just want a mediator there who can help us talk to each other in a healthy way and to work on our relationship. She asked me to wash dishes and I said I already washed a bunch and she called me a liar saying I was worthless, pathetic and never did anything around the house. She said she didn't believe me and that she does everything and I do nothing. No matter what I do or how much I try to help and make things better, I've done nothing and am worthless.

I know this kind of stuff is just going to go on forever. I can't keep having hope that things will be just plain good again.

You are worse than verbally abused
You are down right bullied

This is not love. She has NO respect for you in any way. She only wants you because it would kill her pride if you dumped her-plus she won't have anybody else to put up with her sorry @$$

I think she knows she has a problem.

This is not behaviour that she cannot learn how to control, and it is not behaviour that she is not smart enough to see how it is affecting you.

You might consider putting some expectations upon her, and some boundaries in the relationship for starters.

You are probably worn out, and worn down, but you must step up before she destroys herself, and her relationship with you. I think it's a miracle that you've stayed and put up with it this long- my hat is off to you.

Regardless of what her diagnosis is, you have no idea of how she is also, possibly, manipulating the therapist she is seeing. The therapy itself, if not appropriate or meaningful to her, will also make her angry and upset. Probably confused. With such a short attention span, coupled with the weed, and the mood swings, she is a powderkeg waiting to explode. And she does- at you.

I would enlist the help of her parents. Tell them everything you have said here, and I doubt they will be surprised. I hope they will be supportive.

Make an appointment to see a therapist with her. Both of you need to address these major issues of just day to day living. Be prepared to be brutally honest, and take advantage of having a mediator listen and allow you to speak while your girlfriend listens.

Go with the intent of saving the relationship, with changes. That will be the key. If she can see you are serious, and that simple expectations are required, with consequences if she cannot step up, you will know soon enough if she is willing to sincerely try.

If there is no groundwork for the relationship and she continues to show disrespect, abuse, and confrontational aggression, you must seriously consider your own well being, and leave the house, even if it is for a few days, a week, a month.

IF she shows she can choose to control herself and treat you with a little dignity, and you can see that she is honestly trying, you shouldn't be afraid to suggest that she have an assessment done. It would be good if the parents were onboard with this to encourage her to keep trying, and get the help she needs.

Only a thourough psychiatric assessment can determine what, if any, mental illness she has, and how to appropriately treat it.

Try not to get bogged down with all the 'what if's' because you'll drive yourself crazy. Instead focus on what you have to do, keeping in mind you must be safe, and the very least you have to be confident of her is, she will attend counselling immediately.

You have a difficult road ahead of you. Stay strong.

Regardless of what her diagnosis is, you have no idea of how she is also, possibly, manipulating the therapist she is seeing. The therapy itself, if not appropriate or meaningful to her, will also make her angry and upset. Probably confused. With such a short attention span, coupled with the weed, and the mood swings, she is a powderkeg waiting to explode. And she does- at you.

Exactly why I was hoping couples therapy would be an answer

13 Signs Your Wife or Girlfriend is a Borderline or a Narcissist A Shrink for Men (http://shrink4men.wordpress.com/2009/01/21/relationships-with-borderline-narcissistic-personality-women/)

THanks for the link, this article describes our relationship and how I'm feeling (like I'm going crazy!) very well. She does everything on that list including blaming me for EVERYTHING.. if she drops her GPS, it's my fault and reason enough to attack me..she castrates me every day when I am good to her and able. I don't need this.

She also makes all the rules and changes her mind constantly when I'm just adjusting to her first demands. It's got me running around with my head cut off.

Anyways, thanks for the help. So, where do I go from here? I guess therapy?

Yes, therapy for you so you can get out intact. It ain't going to get better - only worse.

I personally would not waste time on couples therapy. Whatever personal feelings come out in therapy she will use to hurt him further.

He needs to escape this abusive woman. Why she is the way she is does not matter anymore. There is nothing sacred about this marriage. It's an instrument of psychic torture.

I personally would not waste time on couples therapy. Whatever personal feelings come out in therapy she will use to hurt him further.

He needs to escape this abusive woman. Why she is the way she is does not matter anymore. There is nothing sacred about this marriage. It's an instrument of psychic torture.

Had to spread the rep, Asking, but I utterly agree. There is no way that you can win with people like this and counseling is most often a disaster.

Just ask my husband. His ex is a magnified and smarter version of what twelvemonkeys has described. She used therapy to blame and trash him while exonerating herself. He emerged excoriated, she emerged empowered. Go figure.

Yep he is in a no win situation
For real!

Hope he can remain intact

seriously dude... yew need to get out of that. My ex girlfriend was the same way. It only gets worse. No matter what yew try to do... it will only get worse. She has some mental issues and is letting her past rule her life. She probably has been through some tough times but she has no right taking it out on yew. The next time she says she wants a divorce or tells yew to do it... yew better do it. Find someone who will treat yew the way yew shuld b treated. Yew don't deserve to b treated like crap because she has issues. I feel bad for yew but honestly... thats not a healthy relationship to b in. yewr still young. Go have fun and meet the right women for yew. =]<3

She sounds full blown borderline personality disorder. She will suck you dry. She'll threaten divorce, but never do you favour of actually getting one. You've seen shrink4men, you understand now? Get out! Get out! Get out! Especially important DO NOT HAVE CHILDREN WITH THIS WOMAN.

Ok, update... so thinks are pretty bad. I don't know why, but I just cannot give this girl up. We were supposed to go to Oregon with her sister... they were going to pick me up at my family's along the way and spend the night before continuing the journey. I totally made this trip happen for my wife's sister. Then out of nowwhere, my wife calls and tells me I am uninvited. They don't want to "put miles on their cars" when they drive back to drop me off. Even though when her sister was begging me to go she said she'd put as many miles as it took, she didn't care. I feel really upset, I can't believe they would just drop me like this. So, I express my upsetness while my wife has me on speaker. Now, because I was upset for 15 minutes her whole family thinks I'm the crazy one. They deemed me unreliable and all this stuff. It just frustrates me how much my wife doesn't care or support me. I feel like whenever we are a part, I disappear. She doesn't charge her phone or call me, except for when she wants something or to yell at me. I just wish she'd call to say she loves me. Anyway, she doesn't even want me to pick her up from the airport, instead she's having her dad do it! I just want a better relationship, one where she wants me to be the one to pick her up with flowers and such. That really bothers me. So, they still came to spend the night and at that point I was really upset and not in a mood to even see her. I thought I wanted to break up with her. So, I told her she and her sister could sleep on the floor downstairs in the bed I made. She started crying - wanting to sleep in my room. I was too upset for that so they ended up leaving and getting a hotel. I ran out and begged her to stay. I was upset but I didn't want her to leave! I was trying to be a good person by keeping to my word and letting them stay at my family's home even when I was upset with both of them.

Now, they won't answer their phones when I call. I just wish she'd pick up. I always respond to her and make sure I at least pick up for a short time just because it's the respectable thing to do as one's partner. I feel miserable, like I can't go on... with or without her. I know she doesn't care for me and that kills me. I just wish she'd care and show me decency and support and respect. The only time she called me was to beg me to get weed for her from a dealer, with about 5 hours notice.

Her old boyfriend she would walk around with his picture and would talk to him for hours at a time. She treats me like dirt and I become invisible when I'm not around her. I hate it. It makes me sad, I cry like every night. Now, because of the way I acted, I'm crazy and I'm sure they never want to speak to me again. I don't know what to do. I just want to talk to her and be nice... I miss her.

You have lost your total identity in her insanity and you can't even see what it is doing to you.
You are a glutton for punishment if you keep staying with her or you for some strange reason like the drama.
Maybe you should go in the opposite direction for your own vacation and clear your head.
Maybe if you have time away from her and your familiar surroundings it will help you to think straight.

Pack your bags and go somewhere before she gets back and do some soul searching on a beach or something.

Harshness alert

Quit crying, man up, and leave this ABUSE. Thats simple.

Ain't that much love in the world, to make me sit, and take the abuse that your taking. Worse yet, bringing a child into this dysfunctional relationship, is a horrible thought. NO WAY!!!

She is making you into the nut case she is. Whining is not your solution, leaving is. Who knows, maybe she will be so heartbroken not having someone to crap on, she may get some real help. If not, that's her problem to deal with.

Sorry guy, I really feel for you, but you need to take care of yourself, because its obvious, YOU CANNOT HELP HER!

IF YOU CAN'T LEAVE, THEN ACCEPT IT, AND BE QUIET!!!!!

Whoa! Baby? Child? I missed that. If that's come up, DON'T have one.

All the same, I'd go easier on twelvemonkeys. Abusive relationships can seem mysterious if you haven't been in one.

Monkeys, I think you need to establish No Contact for the foreseeable future and find yourself again. I hope you can find the strength to do this.

I strongly recommend some form of therapy if you can afford it. You need to build up yourself esteem. Think about what you want to do with your life. Do you have a career you care about? This is the time to throw yourself into it. If not, consider taking some classes at the local junior college. Find something that will get you out of your own head and get HER out of your head.

Whatever you do, don't jump into another relationship now. Give yourself at least 6 months. Someone told me however long the relationship was, give yourself half that time to get back to who you are.

I know you feel awful now, but in many ways, you are very lucky. You have no children, which means that once you are divorced, you never have to see her again. It's the best for both of you that you end this toxic relationship soon.

Dear twelvemomkeys, I'm going to go easy on you too, because my husband was in a relationship exactly like yours (worse, in fact)- but he got out.

Please go back to the Shrink4men website - re-read the articles and the posts by other men. Please go to this link below which describes really succintly how abusive women control their partners through the fear of loss:

How Emotionally Abusive Women Control You: The Fear of Loss and the Need for Approval A Shrink for Men (http://shrink4men.wordpress.com/2009/07/27/how-emotionally-abusive-women-control-you-the-fear-of-loss-and-the-need-for-approval/)

Yes, she is ABUSIVE and she is pressing all your buttons now. She has a PHd in this form of manipulation and you can rest assured that she will make sure everyone thinks that you're the abusive one. The more you continue to respond emotionally and sometimes irrationally, the more she will use that against you to demonstrate that you're the one that's unhinged. (And, she will never forget it.)

I speak from personal experience of a woman that behaves like this. Please believe me when I tell you that there is no way you will get the love you desire or make her understand what you want. It will never be about what you want, it will always be about her.

Leave while you can and while you have no real ties to her except financial ones. Give her what she demands financially. The pain you will experience at the break up of your marriage is nothing compared to the pain you will experience if you stay. It will be absolute hell.

Hi Gemini and TwelveMonkeys,

I'm a little uncomfortable with the shrink4men website myself, just because some of the wording is the kind that actual abusive men use to try to falsely make it sound like it's the woman who is abusive.

For example, to take the very first thing on the page:


Emotionally abusive women will:
Threaten you with abandonment (If you don't shape up, I'm leaving).

I don't think this is abusive. If a man is abusive and the woman threatens to leave if he doesn't stop, she's not being abusive. Same in reverse, if a man threatens to leave because he's unhappy in the relationship, that's not abuse. That's setting limits. The two people may not agree about those limits, but that's something to talk about. A grown man is not a child who can be "abandoned."

If the named threats (children, money, career) are directed at keeping a man in a relationship and controlling his behavior, then it may well be abuse. But the "threats" listed at shrink4men are the kinds of threats that abusive men project onto women when she wants to LEAVE the relationship, not force him to stay in it. In fact, these are the very threats women typically hear when they want to leave an abusive relationship. He says, "If you leave, I will take the children from you, I will take the house, I will make sure you lose your job; you will live on the street."

The page goes on to talk about losing access to children. But instead of reassuring men that this is an empty threat, it argues that it is worth it to leave. Even abusive men often get half time custody of their children. There's no reason a good dad would have less. So it is not reasonable to assume he will lose access to his children if starts from the assumption that he will have them half time.

I am not sure if I am being very clear. But I think that this particular web site serves to justify men who are themselves abusive (and expect, for example, to lose their children). That's NOT to say that the men who read it are all abusive!

What Abuse IS:
Abuse is a pattern of controlling behavior. (And people who are leaving a relationship are not normally trying to control the other person.) I believe TwelveMonkey's wife is abusive. But I think TwelveMonkeys will get a more accurate sense of what constitutes abuse from a website such as the National Domestic Violence Hotline (http://www.ndvh.org/is-this-abuse/am-i-being-abused-2/).

Hi Gemini and TwelveMonkeys,

I'm a little uncomfortable with the shrink4men website myself, just because some of the wording is the kind that actual abusive men use to try to falsely make it sound like it's the woman who is abusive.

For example, to take the very first thing on the page:



I don't think this is abusive. If a man is abusive and the woman threatens to leave if he doesn't stop, she's not being abusive. Same in reverse, if a man threatens to leave because he's unhappy in the relationship, that's not abuse. That's setting limits. The two people may not agree about those limits, but that's something to talk about. A grown man is not a child who can be "abandoned."

If the named threats (children, money, career) are directed at keeping a man in a relationship and controlling his behavior, then it may well be abuse. But the "threats" listed at shrink4men are the kinds of threats that abusive men project onto women when she wants to LEAVE the relationship, not force him to stay in it. In fact, these are the very threats women typically hear when they want to leave an abusive relationship. He says, "If you leave, I will take the children from you, I will take the house, I will make sure you lose your job; you will live on the street."

The page goes on to talk about losing access to children. But instead of reassuring men that this is an empty threat, it argues that it is worth it to leave. Even abusive men often get half time custody of their children. There's no reason a good dad would have less. So it is not reasonable to assume he will lose access to his children if starts from the assumption that he will have them half time.

I am not sure if I am being very clear. But I think that this particular web site serves to justify men who are themselves abusive (and expect, for example, to lose their children). That's NOT to say that the men who read it are all abusive!

What Abuse IS:
Abuse is a pattern of controlling behavior. (And people who are leaving a relationship are not normally trying to control the other person.) I believe TwelveMonkey's wife is abusive. But I think TwelveMonkeys will get a more accurate sense of what constitutes abuse from a website such as the National Domestic Violence Hotline (http://www.ndvh.org/is-this-abuse/am-i-being-abused-2/).

Dear asking, the Shrink4men website is aimed at men that are in relationships with abusive women, and are themselves being abused. It focuses, in particular on advice to men who live with women that display NPD and BPD characterists. The author of the website uses strong words to describe these women - and, as you rightly note, this is confronting.

I don't believe that it is a website that condones male violence towards women, but it is one of the few websites that acknowledges that women with personality disorders can be intentionally emotionally and verbally abusive towards men and that this is a form of family/domestic violence.

I recommended this website because my husband's ex wife is personified on virtually every page, and because she suffers from Narcissitic Personality Disorder. We live with her abuse on a daily basis and having read the posts by Twelvemokeys many of the behavioral traits he describes COULD be attributed to a personality disorder such as this. The threats that the author of shrink4men lists are the very threats and strategies that my husband's ex wife used and continues to use with him, particularly with regard to his children.

Perhaps you may have misread some of the meaning, due to the strong wording, but I don't believe that the author uses the website to justify abuse towards women. I would never, ever recommend it if I thought that was the case!

Of course Twelvemonkeys should seek advice and information from other sources, as you again so rightly point out, that is what a Forum such as this is all about.

Thank you everyone for your responses. They give me a lot of strength. So, after not talking for a couple days we've decided that it's best that I move out and find my own place. She is going to move back in with her parents. She thinks we need to go back to the beginning and start over with dating and such.

I don't know if I will continue to see her... she is going to get counseling and so am I.

Also, about the kids issue, she hates kids... so that takes care of that.

Thanks again.

Good for you for finding a better path for yourself.

I am glad you are in counselling for yourself. It's good to have a person to talk to who can objectively help you work through all of this.

Best of luck to you.

She hates herself right now, so don't be like her.

Good Luck!

Thank you everyone for your responses. They give me a lot of strength. So, after not talking for a couple days we've decided that it's best that I move out and find my own place. She is going to move back in with her parents. She thinks we need to go back to the beginning and start over with dating and such.

I don't know if I will continue to see her... she is going to get counseling and so am I.

Also, about the kids issue, she hates kids... so that takes care of that.

Thanks again.

Glad to hear that you can have some time separate from her to seek some help for yourself and lick your wounds. Just a word of advice - you can never go back to the beginning.

Dear asking, the Shrink4men website is aimed at men that are in relationships with abusive women, and are themselves being abused. It focuses, in particular on advice to men who live with women that display NPD and BPD characterists. The author of the website uses strong words to describe these women - and, as you rightly note, this is confronting.

Gemini, You are a generous and insightful contributor, and I don't mean to dismiss your views in this one area. I have had a lot of people tell me that my ex husband must be a narcissist or borderline and in many ways he seems both. Is he one, both, neither? I try not to worry about what he is, but to recognize the behaviors that are not okay, so that I don't do them myself and don't do anything that would encourage my children to do them. Supporting them in acknowledging emotionally confusing and hurtful behavior, without actually calling it "abusive," has been a major activity for me in the last 8 years. So I guess, I just think that the specific way this web site defines abuse confuses the issue and provides cover for abusers of both sexes.

Sorry for high jacking this thread!
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Congratulations to Twelve Monkeys!

I am so happy you are going to have some peace of mind for a change. I hope that you feel great relief. If you don't have a firm network of friends, nows the time to start building one. Be patient and reach out to other people. It's hard to acknowledge a failed marriage. I felt like a failure even when I didn't feel that divorce was a mistake. But you are laying the groundwork for a better future.

Good luck and hope you check back in and tell us how you are doing.

I am so depressed, I just want to die. So, since that fight at my house.. she said she wanted me to live somewhere else and we could date for a few months and if it went well she would move back in with me. She said she loved me and missed me and everything.

Now, two weeks later I have moved out into the house we own together, by myself. I'm trying to get housemates.

Now though, she doesn't want to see me whatsoever. She changed her myspace page to divorced and took off ALL the pictures of me she had up so lovingly before. She put in her interests "Not divorced, separated" She has been so cold in her texts, when I say I love you she says nothing..

I am utterly depressed and alone. I miss her so much and just want everything back. I had her, I had the girl of my dreams loving me and now it's gone. I worked so hard to get into her heart.. she had pictures of me up all over her site!! Something I had always wanted and now it's gone. Everything is gone and how the hell am I going to get it back... right now?

She wants a separation for three months.. she said she considers it open, isn't looking but expects me to be.. She doesn't want to talk or see each other at all and won't even do couples counseling. She wants me to get a life and a job.. which I just got.

So, I just wait 3 months and see what happens? It is awful not being able to talk to her and know what she is thinking.. well I do, from her myspace to an extent and it's not looking good.

Well, the plan was for her to move back in with her parents, and you were going to stay in the house. That part went according to plan.

It seems that she is now considering the relationship with you as over.

She is not behaving in a way that suggests by any stretch, that she is interested in the original plan of starting over from a distance, by dating.

That much is pretty clear. At this point, it doesn't matter how much you love her, or how hurt and disappointed you are. That is not going to fix, or re-start the relationship.

While I understand your disappointment, I think that in retrospect, this may have been something that you might have expected to happen. And it has. She has separated from you physically, now emotionally as well. She does not have the same feelings for you, that you have for her.

I would advise you to work on getting your own life on track. Don't contact her to tell her you love her, don't run yourself emotionally ragged trying to figure out the changes on her Facebook. To you, she has no reason not to love you back, but to her, she does.

Respect her space, and work on getting over the relationship. I think it's a long shot that she will ever want things back to the way they were. She has already moved on.

Don't stop living because of false hope. It is what it is. Time to put yourself first, stop contacting her, and move on with your own life. Don't put your life on hold for anybody, because you are only wasting time.

And speaking of time, we all only have so much of it, and when its gone, its gone. Living on hope and dreams waiting for them to happen will leave you in a place where you accomplish nothing.

While it is sad, yes, that it is over, it is time for you to let go.

My best advise it to see a lawyer, and handle your business. There is plenty of time to cry later. For now you have to make yourself not only independent of her, but need a solid foundation in which to build.

I hate it that your going through this, I really understand have the rug ripped from under you. That's no excuse to rollover and play dead though. Now is the time to get back up and establish yourself, and show you count. She sure the heck is not going to help!

Do this for yourself, and your future, and forget the myspace stuff. And believe nothing she tells you from this point on. Its about you now. No more false hope, or butt kissing.

How is evrything Going ? Did you guys move apart? I am going through the same with my boyfriend of 3 yrs. He is verbally abusive, smokes... has cheated on me... we have a lease until February and I'm thinking of leaving him but I am in love with him and feel I have invested a lot in our relationship that I stay and try to make it work but things keep going back to the same thing, its like we can't be happy...

Thank you for the replies, they are really giving me a wake up call and a boost to start my life.

I'm moved 9 hours from my childhood home to be with her and it's also where the house we bought is (the one I'm living in).. I found roommates and got a part-time job and am starting to make friends.. Should I proceed to stay here for 3 months and see how it plays out?

It sucks that I have to pay her her half of the rent but it's not that expensive. I'm thinking I should just do it.

Hi Claudia, yes we moved a part. She demanded I move out of the house we were renting together and so I did and moved to the house we own, she is living with her parents about 15 minutes away.

I am banned from going there and we have not seen each other in about a month. It seems like she is getting further and further from wanting to be with me. I'm just waiting it out but trying to start a life for myself as well. Even though the only reason I am here is for her, I will try to change that. It is very hard.

Good luck to you Claudia, let me know how your situation goes.

I just feel like everything was a lie.. the marriage, when she said I love you, I knew it too! That's why I pulled away, I was right and it sucks. Don't know what to do about that, now I just want to believe that she loves me - she said it so many times.. but it had to be fake.

Be advised that a lawyer can tell you what YOUR rights are, and what she can DEMAND, and can't. I wouldn't pay her a Louie without the lawyers advice. Consultation can be free.

I did say no butt kissing didn't I??

Wow . So its been a month. I think at times that maybe if I leave, it will be then that he will realize what he had with me but I have this feeling that he knows I am a good woman but he just does not love me anymore... he told me yesterday morning that he does love me and wants to make it work but then he came home from work and left all day... actions speak louder than words... Im sorry about this happening to u... I know the hurt u feel... its an emptiness when the person u have done so much for does not see it and hurts u... I hope with time u will find a wife that will love u as u do her...

I just feel like everything was a lie..the marriage, when she said I love you, I knew it too! That's why I pulled away, I was right and it sucks. Don't know what to do about that, now I just want to believe that she loves me - she said it so many times..but it had to be fake.

There's no reason it has to be all or nothing or to say she was lying. She could have loved you when you two married but later fallen out of love. This happens all the time.

There's no reason it has to be all or nothing or to say she was lying. She could have loved you when you two married but later fallen out of love. This happens all the time.

I agree.

People with the personality traits that you describe in your wife fall in and out of love very easily. Once you become (in their eyes) the 'bad guy' in the relationship, they have the capacity to detach very easily and move on.

It wasn't a lie, you loved her and gave it your best shot. That is all that you can ever do.

Try not to take it personally, and understand that it is about her, not about you. Hopefully you will eventually see it as an experience that informs and enriches your life rather than detracts from it.

This is a painful time for you, but you are learning and growing and becoming the person who will have a better, happier relationship in the future.

Moved and edited

I haven't been contacted her at all... she wrote me an angry email asking if I cared and told me to let her know about our joint business venture... I let her know and that was that.. she said "thanks for your response. hope your therapy is going well."

Last night before she took me off her top 4, she wrote me "hows life" I responded " doing well, how about you?" she didn't answer so I signed off.. at 1:30 am she said "sad"..

I am so depressed, I just want back in. We were married, are married, I hate it when she refers to us a not being so.. Like in her email she said "yes, we were married, but now that we're not 'together' doesn't mean you can ignore me" SHe is just slowly phasing me out..

I don't know what to do.. I just want things to be the way they were! What should I do? Ask her to lunch? She said before she doesn't want to see me for three months.. can I change this or will it push her away?

I hate this!

I would do as she said, and leave her alone for the 3 months she asked for.

But I feel it's just giving her time to get over me... it's how she usually does it.. she just forgets and moves on.

Whenever she sees me we always end up together. Why is she messaging me then?

You have to let her go. It's going to be painful and you are going to long for her more than you ever thought you would. You are going to think about her and imagine the good times, only they'll seem much better in your memory than they ever really were. Like a hundred times more enhanced and the bad times will seem as if they never happened at all.

But remember this. You broke up for her reason. Remember the pain, if only to keep things in perspective. Because you were with her for so long and because you opened up your heart and you loved her, you are bound to long for her and you are bound to miss her. It doesn't mean you are supposed to be with her or that you should go back. It hurts when you are no longer with someone you once were with, or when something that was defined as something definite, is suddenly not so clear. You want it to be back the way it was but sometimes it can't and shouldn't be.

Dude, you deserve better. I say this, from what I've read. You will meet someone in time, but for now let her go. It's going to hurt and it's going to be tough. But stay strong. Don't call her, don't let her dictate your life or when you'll talk to her. Don't let her have any control over your life, she's hurt you enough. You have to be in control of you now. And worry about you. Stay away from her, difficult as it is.

Should I take her off my top four?

Thank you cdavison, your post was really touching.. you're right it is hard when something was so definite. I mean to me, marriage is the most definite thing.. I thought I had the girl I loved forever, and now everything is so messed up. I can't believe it.

What advice would you give a friend if they came to you with this story?Your wife s emotionally abusing you can't you see that?Anyone can say I love you but it's the way people act that shows us whether there s love there.Sorry but if I were you I run for the hills.

But shouldn't I at least see what's going on? I mean what if she misses me as much as I miss her and is trying to reach out? Should I ask her to lunch?

Maybe she took me off her myspace because I've been doing NC and she thinks I'm moving on.

Even if she misses you, she isn't worth it. You need to let go.

You don't want to be hurt again by the same girl and this won't even be the second or third time, there comes a point when you just have to say enough is enough. And believe me, I know what it's like to love the wrong girl with all your heart. And what it's like to want to go back and even to go back. Things won't ever be the same.

Dear 12monkeys,

You are in the process of grieving the end of a significant relationship. Of course you feel sad and somewhat crazed! You are mourning the loss of your hopes, dreams, aspirations. You are also mourning what you thought and hoped your wife was - and what you thought and hoped your life was.

The reality is somewhat different. She is in fact emotionally abusive and manipulative. Going back to her will make you feel better, temporarily. She will feel vindicated because she got you back. But she will also respect you even less because you went back. She will see you as weak, and will tell you so, continually. You can never win.

Don't kid yourself. She's already over you. Saying she misses you is just her 'casting the line' to see if you'll take the bait. Please don't take it.

It's really hard, because you did love her, but now you must let go. My advice:

1. Maintain a strict NC attitude.
2. Forget about “being friends” with your ex (“being friends” means “not ready to let go”).
3. Try to get a sense of why you were attracted to her and deal with these issues.
4. Make your primary focus from now to take care of yourself, reconnect with your family and friends and rediscover yourself and what makes you happy.

Welcome to the real world. Sometimes love and marriage are not for life. But there is life after divorce and there is happiness. Many people on this forum will attest to that.

I genuinely feel your pain, but be strong, it does pass.

Love, Gemini

twelvemonkeys, you can't save her from herself only she can save herself. She needs more help than your love can give her. She needs the people in her life to stand up to her and take away all of her options except getting help. She needs professionals who can deal with her unemotionally and on extremely strict terms.

Divorce and a clean break will hurt you but in the end they will be kinder than trying to stay in the relationship.

You are always going to have feelings for her. Just be glad that you getting out while it is still closer to love and not hate.

There will be no progress to be made, by her, to change, until she quits the weed. All efforts with medication and therapy will be compromised.

That should be one minimum expectation you should insist on, with consequences if she doesn't quit.

She is in self-destruct mode, and you need to address your needs with a counsellor, and stop being an enabler.

Try going to this website: A Shrink for Men (http://shrink4men.wordpress.com)

^^This is the only thing I got out of this thread... thanks Gemini54...

12Monkeys... 8 months? Really? Just run while the running is still good... If you don't run, please have a vasectomy so that you do not bring any children into this train wreck of a union.