My niece is 15 years old and she got extremely angry at some students at her school, they were picking on herm sending her messages, spreading rumors, and she has many stress and trust issues already. It was too much for her to take and she decided to sneak her parent's gun to school and she pointed it at one of the people who were making her life so much harder than it needed to be. She did not hurt them she honestly just wanted to scare them! Can anybody tell me what the consequences might be? If she pleads insanity what happens?

Sorry everyone I have forgotten to mention I am in Quebec, Canada

A lot of it will depend on her age 15 is a touchy area not adult but not exactly a kid anymore either. Was the gun loaded ? Where did she point the gun at the other person in classroom or what ? Im not a lawyer which is probably what she really needs. Do you know exactly what they are charging her with?

OK I have no idea about Canadian law. IF you can tell me what she's charged with I might be able to tell you what might happen here in my part of US.

She didn't hurt a soul. The gun was not loaded. She only wanted to pass the word that she HAS to be left alone, she was pushed to the edge. She pointed it to the person outside of a pizza outlet at lunchbreak because they go off the school grounds to eat. I am not sure exactly what she is being charged with, it could be assault with a deadly weapon, but I'm not sure. She's only 15, she barely had anybody to talk to who would really understand.

I don't see an insanity plea working here. She would have to actually be insane for that to work. The defense would have to prove that she didn't know it was wrong. Unless she truly did not know, I don't think it would work. ac101 is right, she's going to need a lawyer

Yes but these kids can't be off the hook for making her life so difficult for so long. People HAVE to have some kind of thing in their head that says "If I bug this person any more than I already have something MIGHT happen" Anybody in their right mind knows when to stop.

Here in my part of the world there are no spoken words that warrant any type of physical assault. Not sure if pointing the gun would be construed as physical assault. However there is a whole list of other charges easier to prove. Example: Illegal possession of a firearm, display of firearm in public. It goes on. If it were me I would get her a lawyer. She does understand that what she did was wrong doesn't she?

She seems to have trouble being reasonable. She has many obscure beliefs that she can't explain and it seems odd to me. She must have seen this as being the only way out

Im sure she did see it as the only way and being unreasonable is partially due to being 15. Maybe some counseling of some kind might help. I don't believe people should be able to say hurtful things and just forget about it. However that's what kids do they say and do stupid things( I know Ive done my share). Good luck to you and your niece I hope it turns out okay. GOODLUCK,AC

Thank you AC! I appreciate your time and you gave me great answers!

Regardless of just what the bullies did to her, she had no right to bring a gun to school, let alone point it at anyone (loaded or not). She is in a lot of trouble. She needs to be represented by an attorney. Her foolish act is going to cost her parents a lot of money defending her.

Most likely she will be expelled from school for so many months, given a probation sentence, and may have to do some time in jail.

The person on the receiving end of bullies unfortunately cannot just fight back like that. She should have kept after the authorities at her school to have the little perps stop harassing her. She now is on the wrong end of the law.

Why didn't the parents do anything to help her before she took the gun to school? What kind of parent lets their child keep being the brunt of bullies at school without doing something about it? This scenerio should never have happened had the parents kept the conversation lines open with their daughter.

She IS 15. Teenagers don't always make the best decisions and if she would have told the authorities of the school she would have been picked on a lot more. I understand where you're coming from TwinkieDoodle, but you can only be pushed so far before you react. And her PARENTS had nothing to do with this. She sneaked it to school, and it's not THEIR fault that she didn't mention her problems.

In Canada, a person between the ages of 12 & 18 is always tried in Youth Court. However, if found guilty, the Youth Court can impose an adult sentence.

Loaded or not, pointing a gun at someone is considered assault and Canada views assault as a violent crime... which means it can be punishable by an adult sentence.

I think youth sentences are under 2 years and adult sentences are over 2 over years.

The crown has to request it and she can oppose it... then they would have a hearing and the judge would make the final decision. Since no one was hurt and the gun was loaded, I would think this would just be minor assault... in which case, it would seem she has a good shot at a youth sentence.

At any rate, get a lawyer! I have heard that Canada has more minors jailed than anywhere in the western world.

As for the right and wrong stuff... sure, a kid can only take so much. But there are better ways to handle things. She would have been better off threatening them with just about ANYTHING other than a gun... that's pretty serious.

I'm just looking out for her. I don't agree with what she did at all but I think that everyone deserves a second chance... She wouldn't if she had hurt somebody though that's for sure

She IS 15. Teenagers don't always make the best decisions and if she would have told the authorities of the school she would have been picked on a lot more. I understand where you're coming from TwinkieDoodle, but you can only be pushed so far before you react. And her PARENTS had nothing to do with this. She sneaked it to school, and it's not THEIR fault that she didn't mention her problems.



I know you aren't going to agree. First, please don't criticize the very people on this Board who volunteer a GREAT deal of time and are giving answers based on their education, experience and research.

Her parents are responsible for supervising her. So, yes, her parents DID have something to do with it. If she told them she was under this kind of pressure and they did nothing, then they are at fault. If she didn't tell them she was under this kind of pressure for whatever reason, then they are at fault for not having open communication with their child.

I certainly have been pushed in life. "Twinkie" has, I guarantee, been pushed in her life. Other people have been pushed. None of us took a gun, loaded or unloaded, ANYPLACE and point it at ANYONE. "She was stressed and pushed" is NOT an excuse to point a gun at anybody. People with carry permits are screened very carefully so that they don't lose their temper and show a firearm. For someone who doesn't even HAVE a permit to show a firearm is inexcusable.

I don't see an insanity defense here. I see a charge of assault. I presume she'll be booted out of school. I see, depending on how badly she frightened other people, that she will be sent minimally to a mental health professional and possibly a special school.

You, by making excuses for her, are enabling her behavior.

So, again - she is your niece. You certainly should love and support her but you are closing your eyes to the truth concerning her responsibility and that of her parents.

And you owe "Twinkie" an apology. Again - antagonizing the very people who are trying to help you is NOT a good idea.

This is another example of why only adults - or people who behave like adults - should post on the legal boards.

I'm just looking out for her. I don't agree with what she did at all but I think that everyone deserves a second chance... She wouldn't if she had hurt somebody though that's for sure



Next time somebody points a gun at you and you have no idea if it's loaded or not, try to keep this in mind - :).

If she couldn't talk to her parents, why didn't she talk to you?

This is NOT a childish prank. If there had been an armed Police Officer or security guard on the premises she very well could have been shot and killed.This is not childish horseplay. This is serious stuff.

And her parents should be fined for having a pistol that is readily available to underage children.

I agree except for this

[QUOTE=And her parents should be fined for having a pistol that is readily available to underage children.[/QUOTE]

In all fairness Im not sure how readily accessible the gun was ? Fining her parents for her getting the gun, at 15 she knew better I have two teenage daughters 17 and 19 and although there are weapons here, a couple readily available and loaded they would not touch them unless their lives were in danger. When my children were younger the guns were hidden out of reach or locked up but since they were 13 years old they both regulary accompy me for target practice. My wife, as well as both of my daughters have taken handgun safety courses and my training is a little more extensive. What her parents are guilty of is not teaching her respect for guns and what they are capable of regardless of who's hands they are in. Im sure ill get some nasty comments about having loaded guns. I live in a very rural area with a small police force and most of the residents own guns both for recreation and home protection. Its not enough to tell your children guns are bad in fact guns are not bad. Teach to respect guns, teach them to respect people and themselves. If her parents failed at all that's where I think it was. Sorry for the long post. Just my opion for what its worth. :)

Oh and be nice to judy and twinkie they both give excellent advice from what I can tell GOOD LUCK,AC

I agree except for this



In all fairness Im not sure how readily accessible the gun was ? Fining her parents for her getting the gun, at 15 she knew better I have two teenage daughters 17 and 19 and although there are weapons here, a couple readily available and loaded they would not touch them unless their lives were in danger. When my children were younger the guns were hidden out of reach or locked up but since they were 13 years old they both regulary accompy me for target practice. My wife, as well as both of my daughters have taken handgun safety courses and my training is a little more extensive. What her parents are guilty of is not teaching her respect for guns and what they are capable of regardless of whos hands they are in. Im sure ill get some nasty comments about having loaded guns. I live in a very rural area with a small police force and most of the residents own guns both for recreation and home protection. Its not enough to tell your children guns are bad in fact guns are not bad. Teach to respect guns, teach them to respect people and themselves. If her parents failed at all thats where I think it was. Sorry for the long post. Just my opion for what its worth. :)

Oh and be nice to judy and twinkie they both give excellent advice from what i can tell GOOD LUCK,AC


You asked and so I'll respond. We aren't talking about you and every other responsible gun owner - including me.

These parents obviously didn't take their daughter to gun safety courses, didn't teach her not to point guns at people, didn't have the gun secured.

Therefore, I believe the parents were negligent in putting it someplace where she could reach it.

I agree that children should respect guns. I also live in a rural area. I know all about guns and a small Police Force. I don't see that these parents taught this child ANYTHING about guns. Therefore, again, I feel they were negligent because the gun was available to her. I see no allegation that she sawed a hole in a gun safe to get at it.

Judy you are correct and I guess my point was at 15 she should have known better and her parents were negligent in not teaching her. Im not sure a fine would make a difference at this point but I guess it would be better than nothing. Great advice as usual. AC

You know I just happened to remember one thing about Canada. There is a gun ban in Canada and normal citizens are not allowed to own handguns period.

Please explain to me just HOW did her parents even get a gun in the first place? Did they have this weapon illegally or is one parent in law enforcement? Either way, the parents are in big trouble as well having a gun readily available for their daughter to bring to school to terrorize the bullies. It seems that the entire family is in big trouble.

Canadian citizens are not supposed to be gun owners. They are supposed to be gun less.

Please enlighten us here at AMHD how this gun magically appeared in the 15 year old's household??

As far as I know Canada has even banned wooden nunchucks (two wooden sticks connected with a cord) used in martial arts. You can be arrested at the border if you have them in your car. They can deem you a weapons trafficker!

The more I think about this, the more I am leaning towards the parents and the 15 year old child all sitting in jail.

You know I just happened to remember one thing about Canada. There is a gun ban in Canada and normal citizens are not allowed to own handguns period.

You learn something new everyday wow gun ban didn't know that.

Gun politics in Canada - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Canada)

This is a rather interesting article about Canadian gun laws in Wikipedia. It does reiterate how the government will allow you to own a handgun, but you must meet certain criteria and you must have a license to purchase and own the gun and have a license to transport the weapon as well. And the Wiki article does state that gun licenses are not generally available for handguns.

Great article twink!

I'd also like to ask..

When did this happen?


School is out till September or late August in Quebec...

If this happened before school ended she would've already at least had a trial...

I'm also sure she would've been in jail right now, Quebec isn't Texas- they're not used to guns. Besides Quebequers would be calling the police ASAP... they just love that 3 digit number..

Just sayin'...

Sarah

Folks, I think we've been - at best - trolled!

Judy you are correct and I guess my point was at 15 she should have known better and her parents were negligent in not teaching her. Im not sure a fine would make a difference at this point but I guess it would be better than nothing. Great advice as usual. AC


Out of greenies so here's a pretend greenie - it's so good to be able to have a minor disagreement, understand each other and move on.

I certainly see your point of view and it is obvious that you can see mine.

Good interplay here!

Folks, I think we've been - at best - trolled!
I have to agree.(I have to spread the rep around before I can give you a greenie).. I may not know Canadian law at all... but here in the USA that's a VERY serious offense. No insanity pleas there... we have zero tollerance rules and its usually permanent expulsion from the school system in addition to any criminal and/or civil punishments that the court may hand out.

The penalty for being a troll however is public humiliation and having laughing townfolk throw feces at you, as you are bound in the stocks in the town square for a period.

Yep judy I believe your right besides how boring would life be if we all agreed on everything. :D oh and well said smoothy

My niece is 15 years old and she got extremely angry at some students at her school, they were picking on herm sending her messages, spreading rumors, and she has many stress and trust issues already. It was too much for her to take and she decided to sneak her parent's gun to school and she pointed it at one of the people who were making her life so much harder than it needed to be. She did not hurt them she honestly just wanted to scare them! Can anybody tell me what the consequences might be? If she pleads insanity what happens??

Its okay if she is still doing it u can tell her to stop but that wasn't all a great help so if u need any help u can go to Yahoo and text me at EMAIL REMOVED FOR PRIVACY:)

its okay if she is still doing it u can tell her to stop but that wasnt all a great help so if u need any help u can go to yahoo and text me at EMAIL REMOVED FOR PRIVACY:)


First, you aren't supposed to ask that a subject be taken off the board.

Second, PLEASE STOP THE TEXT SPEAK - this is a legal board. What is your advice? Tell her to stop is your advice. Stop what? It sounds like the Police have already stopped her.

Did you actually read the question - ?

I am not a legal expert, but I am a Canadian and because my husband has rifles, I do know a bit about owning a gun in Canada.

My husband has rifles from his father and my father, the amount of paper work and begging involved would blow your mind.

Not only does he have to register each rifle every year, he has to pay a hefty fee in order to keep them. We don't even use them, he only has them because they are old, sentimental etc.

These rifles (under Canadian law) must be locked away in a rifle safe. The bullets have to be locked in a different safe. This is just for a rifle. If, for some reason, the police come to your house and see the rifle out in the open, or the lock box unlocked, well be prepared to be cuffed, taken away and charged to the full extent of the law.

Owning a gun, no way! Unless you're a police officer, no go. You can look at guns, you can shop for guns, but buying a gun, not going to happen.

If the OP isn't a troll, not only is the 15 year old facing time in prison, but her parents are as well, because I doubt the gun is registered and obviously it wasn't kept in a safe box.

Once again, not a legal expert, just a Canadian who happens to know what it takes to own weapons here.

Alty - Thanks for the detailed outline above regarding gun ownership in Canada. I knew it was almost impossible to buy a gun but you spelled it out for us.

I think we've been trolled or the parents had an illegal gun in their home as they were probably criminals who bought it on the black market. Anything can be bought on the black market.

I was going to mention the fact that it could not be her gun so she has somebody in serious trouble but I see Alty beat me to it.

She can claim she is insane, she can even get psychiatric help but she has some serious consequences to face here.

I just don't understand in this day and age how people commit crimes when they know you don't say BOMB in an airport, you don't take guns and threaten people, you know security and cameras can be almost anywhere and Big Brother is watching.

I heard of similar situations in the past. The good news is that the girl is only 15 so even if charged, she will not have serious consequences or a criminal record since no one was hurt and there were mitigating circumstances, (bullying). Having some teachers testifying to the judge that she is a good kid and a victim of bullying would be a major help so try to get statements from teachers who know her and her situation. I'm more worried about her parents, it wasn't said how their firearm was stored, but if it wasn't stored under lock and key with ammunition separate as Altenweg mentioned, they could be charged with improper storage of a firearm which can have serious consequences. I just hope they got a lawyer before making any statements or admissions to the police. Police love to pick on law abiding firearm owners for relatively minor infractions instead of going after real criminals.

Being a victim of bullying does not excuse her actions or justify them in anyway. Since when do two wrongs make a right? I hope she faces very serious consequences. There's already been too many school shootings. Too many students have already died for no good reason. What if that gun had been loaded? If she doesn't even have the good sense to NOT bring a gun into school in the first place who knows if she even knew how to check if it was loaded or not? Or how to use it?

In the USA, adult type crimes receive adult type sentances... and rightfully so. A 15 year old knows exactly what they are doing... you can't make that same argument for a 5 year old.

Because she was being bullied is a lame excuse. She should have gone to the school administrators if that was happening and let them deal with it. And alternatively... if she was big enough to bring a gun... then she was big enough to take care of it one on one. Cowards resort to using a gun over petty squabbles.

Its obviously NOT a life or death situation, thus no justification not even by USA standards of self defense which are decidedly different from Canadas.

Under OUR USA laws taking a gun after the event and even threatening to use it makes the crime premeditated. And in most cases voids any self defense claim that otherwise may have been made. And makes any temporary insanity defence far more diffucult to defend.

Personally I think Canadas laws are geared more to protecting the criminal than the victims. But that's immaterial as she screwed up bad the minute she picked up that gun before she even left the house, much less entered the school.

Here we are taught you do not play with a gun, they are not toys... You never point it at someone unless you are prepared to pull the trigger that very moment, and you never threaten to use it unless you are prepared to pull that trigger right then and there.

And above all, you better be damn sure you are in the right before you do, because you will have to answer to authorities if you use it and weren't.

And there are certain cases where you are in the right... You are in your house and you believe the intruder is threatening your physical well being, or you are in a life threatening situation where your life is at risk by an assailent if you don't shoot him or her first. But that last case you better have a right to carry or a license to carry where you are.

Yes I do realise those would NOT apply in Canada at least as I understand it.

Basically they are not toys... treat them like they are and suffer the consequences.