So many people argue with me that God is jesus, jesus is god.


I always argue the same way. No he is NOT. Jesus NEVER prayed to himself, nor did he claim the power to be HIS. He always said in MY FATHERS NAME. This indicates they are 2 separate entitys.

I have finally found scripture, prooving my belief.



God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill? Numbers 23:19



To me, this CLEARLY says they are separate.

GOD IS NOT A MAN.

Jesus WAS a man... we ALL know that...

NOR IS HE SON OF MAN

Jesus WAS son of man... (or woMAN in this case)



This alone tells me that the trinity is the way I see it. Jesus is jesus. God is god. They are both part of the holy spirit.

Jesus, the second Person of the Trinity, prayed to the Father, His Heavenly Father, who is the first Person of the Trinity. We know the three persons of the Trinity collectively as God.

Yes but, jesus is not both part 1 and part 2. nor is god. They are separate parts of the holy spirit.

If God is everything, then he was Jesus too. Separation is an illusion that I believe we chose to experience. If we disagree, let's talk about it! I hope this thread doesn't get closed...

God isn't everything. God is IN everything. God is a PART of everything. He is apart of all of us including jesus. So if he is part of all of us, does that make us all god too?

If we can be polite to each other, I'm sure it won't get closed. They close threads because of fights and bad arguments. Disagreement is fine, but all out mean-ness isn't.

so if he is part of all of us, does that make us all god too?
You have just stumbled onto something Akoue was trying to explain here a while ago.

Theosis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theosis)

I find that most people leave out the non-material, immortal Spiritual Being factor. People in general think only in Physical Body terms. God-Gods or more exact Supreme Being is non-material in nature. So, God or a God was operating a physical body named Jesus, exactly like you and I as Spiritual Beings operate our own physical bodies. So far we have two here, God and it's physical Body or Jesus. After Jesus, the body, died, God made an image of the body of Jesus and even talked through it, but this image was not solid, you could pass a hand right through it. Now we have three, God, Jesus, an image of Jesus.

Very recently, I have come to understand Trinity.

However, I am only posting to share with you a sermon by Erwin Lutzer who is talking about New Age religions. There he is talking about what is wrong with man being God or God in man. Listen to his speech at Family Media Center (http://www.focusonthefamily.com/popups/media_player.aspx?Tab=Shows&subcategory=FocusOnTheFamilyDaily) and click on The Deception of New Spirituality. This is in two parts.

You say that Jesus is not God because He did not pray to Himself.
Paul says in Romans 9:5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever
Also Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Jesus is God!
The term Trinity in my opinion is not 100% accurate 'cause one could say that God is a three headed monster or a schizophrenic creature.The truth is very simple!
God the Father gave birth to His Son , the Word before anything else because it is written John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.

John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
And how do we know that the Word is not the Father? It is written about the Son Revelation 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

So everything was made by the Word,God's only begotten Son.

Is God's Son a God? Yes He is because it is written Genesis 1:12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good. Genesis 1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
Genesis 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
So God makes everything after their own kind and says that this was good.If this is good then this goes for Him also.He gives birth after His own kind and God's Son is also God.He is not The Father,but He is His Father's Son.
My son is as human as I am,same goes with God's Son Who is as God as His Father is.
So , no doubt the Son never prays to Himself because He knows that His Father is greater than He is as written John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind. does he speak and then not act? does he promise and not fulfill? Numbers 23:19
This verse is what it says meaning that God is not like man who changes his mind or speaks and not act or promise and not fulfill.
In other words God is not a sinner like man and not that Jesus being a man cannot be God.

so if he is part of all of us, does that make us all god too?
Psalm 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
John 10:34 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
[36] Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

Those unto whom the Word of God came are called by God, gods!Not everybody,not a non believer but whom the Word of God came!

Do a study on I AM.

“I am the way, the truth, and the life,” John 14.6

Using “Son of Man” really was an expression of humility, an indication of how God actually had been willing to lower Himself to mankind’s level by being born of a virgin (Isaiah 7:14; Matthew 1:18-25). Now, it generally was accepted by the chief priests and teachers of the law that “Son of Man” meant “Son of God.”


Jesus was both God and man.
Jesus said:
I and my Father are one. John 10:30

The Jews answered him [Jesus], saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. John 10:33

... Who [Jesus], being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: Philippians 2:6

... For in him [Jesus] dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily. Colossians 2:9

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. 1 Timothy 3:16

I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. John 8:24

Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. John 8:58

“

Using “Son of Man” really was an expression of humility, an indication of how God actually had been willing to lower Himself to mankind’s level by being born of a virgin (Isaiah 7:14; Matthew 1:18-25). Now, it generally was accepted by the chief priests and teachers of the law that “Son of Man” meant “Son of God.”


Also in Hebrew ''son of '' has the meaning of ''in the image of ''!

Haha wow. I thought I had the answer :) I was so wrong.

I guess this is another one of those questions that will remain misunderstood until we are at his table and we can ask him directly.


Its always possible, that the trinity is a man made concept and when I ask HIM in heaven he will simply laugh and say 'i never said such things, there is no trinity, what is, is simply what is'


Please note, I'm not putting words in gods mouth, HE understands what I'm tryign to say, and HE understands that I'm not being blasphemous :)

Lots of love :D

haha wow. i thought i had the answer :) i was so wrong.

lots of love :D
By this you give everyone of us a good lesson.Thank you for your honesty!

Aww thanks adam :) I try :) I may be christian, but any christian who says they know it all is lying :P

God the Father is the First person in the trinity as taught in my Bible,
God the SON is the second and God the Holy Spirit is the third
My Theological overview gives literally dozens of references to prove this to be true. If someone wants them listed I can do that.

aww thanks adam :) i try :) i may be christian, but any christian who says they know it all is lying :P

But the closer you draw yourself to God the more you do know of God.
Not that we can ever know everything in a life time
But the Bible does say

Thy Word have I hid in my heart that I might not sin against thee. -- Psalm 119:11

(Ephesians 1:17-21 NKJV) that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him,

(2 Timothy 3:16-17 NKJV) All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, {17} that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Good points nohelp :)

But I meant that we can't fully understand everything god said until we can ask him directly and get HIS interpretation. After all, all we can do is interperate his word. He can give us what the word really means.

Its confusing :P your right too. I don't know how to explain it any better :P

God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind. does he speak and then not act? does he promise and not fulfill? Numbers 23:19

The generations of man is begotten of man, where as the birth of Jesus was the "only begotten son of the Father."

According to scripture the only way we can be begotten of God is throught Christ (1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to HIS abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead)

In the visible love, meaning the manifested love towards us, Jesus was sent (1 John 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him ) So in Jesus we have a visible man showing us the grace/love that God himself wanted us to see in HIM

The scripture of (John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God) shows us the Jesus was with God and is God from the beginning. And it accounts for the plural idenity meaning of man being made in "our image" (Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth)

The plural of our image being man/Jesus, God/Jesus, and our likeness being Holy Spirit in righteousness. It gives us a pretty clear image of what God intends us to be by the begotten Son delivering and redeeming us as begotten again

I trust that the idenity of trinity, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are the 3 idenities in proven witness of "ONE". You can not separate the idenities, or have them be one without the other.

It is very important that we acknowledge all 3 and realize that Jesus himself would never separate himself from the Father or the Holy Spirit in HIS walk as a man on earth. Nor when HE returns, will HE ever claim to be the God, but will be the LAMB of God.

Matthew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us

Jesus is the WORD made Flesh (John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Wow sndbay that is an excellent way to explain it!! Thank you!


I trust that the idenity of trinity, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are the 3 idenities in proven witness of "ONE". You can not separate the idenities, or have them be one without the other.

Jennie,

I believe scripture teaches that Jesus is indeed GOD and fully a man. I believe it is JESUS who spoke the world into existence according to the bible AND it was the Lord Jesus who walked with Adam in the Garden of Eden in the cool of the day. I believe it is the Lord Jesus who wrestled with Jacob and was in the fiery furnace with the 3 Hebrews. Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever.

I can't explain the trinity, but I believe the trinity. I believe them to be three in one.

I must agree with Adam.
The trinity is three person in one God being.
We each are a trinity made up one body, mind, and spirit.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Jennie,

I believe scripture teaches that Jesus is indeed GOD and fully a man. I believe it is JESUS who spoke the world into existance according to the bible

Yes three IN one.
(John 1:1)

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (NIV)
The word became flesh

(John 1:14)

And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth; we have beheld his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father. (John bore witness to him, and cried, "This was he of whom I said, 'He who comes after me ranks before me, for he was before me.'") And from his fulness have we all received, grace upon grace. For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. No one has ever seen God; the only Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has made him known.

John's concept is pointing out and explaining the personal pre-existence of the one who came to earth. He is pointing out that the logos IS the creator himself.
The logos (http://www.letusreason.org/Onenes27.htm)

( No one has ever seen God; the only Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has made him known.

John's concept is pointing out and explaining the personal pre-existence of the one who came to earth. He is pointing out that the logos IS the creator himself.
The logos (http://www.letusreason.org/Onenes27.htm)

Note that the Greek text says the begotten God and not the begotten Son!

I must agree with Adam.
The trinity is three person in one God being.
We each are a trinity made up one body, mind, and spirit.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Do I understand you correctly Fred? Are you saying that we are gods?

No he is using the analogy of how we are made up of body, mind and spirit= three in one

Although one or two others have posted on here that we are gods.

Do I understand you correctly Fred? Are you saying that we are gods?

I trust Fred is saying we can be begotten again in Christ as (1 Peter 1:3) says.

As Christ is one with the Father and the Holy Spirit, we can be one with Christ and the Holy Spirit. Christ will dwell within us once we are begotten again.

It is my understanding that Christ came so that we can follow HIM and be begotten again, being born again of the spirit (Gal 4:33), unto a new man (Col 3:10). The newness of life we are dead in Christ by baptism, thus buried and able to raise has HE did in the glory of the Father (Romans 6:4)

This would be to comprehend the truth of One Faith, One Lord, and One Baptism. One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. (Eph 4:4-6)

I think I understand. But I can't get past the thought that yes while they are 'one' they are also Separate.

Like for example (I know, its an old horse lol) the egg. You call it an EGG. Its ONE EGG. Yet there is a shell, a yolk, and the white.

Exactly
They all have their distinct functions
God creator
Jesus redeemer
Holy Spirit comforter

Like a triangle with three corners it is still a triangle

i think i understand. but i can't get past the thought that yes while they are 'one' they are also SEPERATE.
.

Not separable


I trust that the idenity of trinity, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are the 3 idenities in proven witness of "ONE". You can not separate the idenities, or have them be one without the other.

It is very important that we acknowledge all 3 and realize that Jesus himself would never separate himself from the Father or the Holy Spirit in HIS walk as a man on earth. Nor when HE returns, will HE ever claim to be the God, but will be the LAMB of God.



John 10:30 I and my Father are one.

John 15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

Not separable distinct yet one
Like a unit.

I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

This makes me feel even more that they are Separate.

Jesus didn't say I am the true vine, and my father is the bush/leave/branch/fruit/ect.

A vine isn't a husbandman (gardener) nor is the husbandman the vine.

450donn,
What I am saying is what the bible says that were were created in the image of God.
There are a number of such similarities such as God can imagine and we can, God can create and we can, and more including that God is a trinity and we also are one.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

I think it can better described if we realize that everything comes from the Father.He is the source of everything.He gives birth to His Son at a time before time was even created,'cause the One that created time was the Word,The Father's begotten Son,The Begotten God!And if the Son is a Son then this simply means that at sometime before eveything, He was born.
I don't think we can say three in one,but I believe it is more accurate to say that the One God,the Father, starts everything by giving birth to His begotten Son,who cannot be anything less than God Himself,'cause God cannot give birth to something different than Himself as much as I cannot give birth to something less human than myself.
The Father is the source.His Son would have not existed if it wasn't Him who gave Him Life.That's why the Son says that the Father is greater than Him.If it is three in one then all persons are absolutely equal,but the Son says that the Father is greater than Him.

this makes me feel even more that they are SEPERATE.

Jesus didnt say i am the true vine, and my father is the bush/leave/branch/fruit/ect.

a vine isnt a husbandman (gardener) nor is the husbandman the vine.

When you understand the growth of the fruit branches and how the vine dresser takes care to watch over each branch carefully, it makes it easier to relate with what Christ was telling us. There are some branches that will fall down to turn away, and those branches if they are not placed back up to stay in the light will bury themselves in the ground of darkness to die. Other branches do reach for the sun light and grow abundantly in fruit. And of course this is the wine dresser's goal to have all branches reach toward the sunlight and become abundant in fruit. The wine dresser's job is hourly done through storms and good weather. Without the wine dresser,who is the husbandman, neither the vine or the branches would have life on earth. And I include the vine, because Jesus as man was the vine on earth, begotten of the wine dresser

In heaven Jesus is connected to the Father because He is the Word that was God, and was made flesh on earth as the only vine.

In reference: (John 15:1 and John 15:5)

a vine: Christ called Himself a vine, because, as a vine imparts to its branches sap and productiveness, so Christ infuses into His followers His own strength and life. Staying connect to the vine in righteousness that is sown.

Matthew 25:29 (we are all given Christ to follow, as the righteous fruit feed to us in the vine through the sap, but some will not choose to remain in the light/righteousness, and can end up having what was given, taken away, falling to darkness in sin)

Mark 14:25 and Luke 22:18 (the blood of Christ in sow in righteousness = sap from the vine productive in good fruit)

Jas 3:17-18 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.

In reference: (John 15:1) husbandman: tiller of the soil, a vine dresser

Jas 5:7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.

In reference: (John 15:5) branches: a tender and flexible branch, the shoot or branch of a vine, (the sprout from the vine)The spout follows from the vine.

Can you see now, why there is connection and are not separable? We are included in this connection by being begotten again in Christ (1Pe 1:3)

adam7gur,
I disagree.
The bible tells us that Jesus was/is the Word of God made flesh as the son on God.
The Father, Son (Word) and Holy Spirit are infinite and eternal. Neither one is older than the other.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Fred
I believe that the Word of God is God's Son even before His incarnation.
And if He is a Son then this means that at some point He was born.
Again this is my understanding only!

Jennie,

I believe scripture teaches that Jesus is indeed GOD and fully a man. I believe it is JESUS who spoke the world into existance according to the bible AND it was the Lord Jesus who walked with Adam in the Garden of Eden in the cool of the day. I believe it is the Lord Jesus who wrestled with Jacob and was in the firey furnace with the 3 Hebrews. Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever.

I can't explain the trinity, but I believe the trinity. I believe them to be three in one.

This is exactly what my teacher told me the other day.

Even today, Jesus who choses people, talks to them and forgives their sins. The voice they hear is of Jesus. They receive new life and they live their life for Jesus. There are lots of stories in media where men and women share their divine experiences.

Brother adam7gur
In the beginning was the Word and the Word was God; so the bible says.
Therefore The Word (Jesus, the son of God on earth) was and IS eteranal and The son of God from the time He was conceived in Mary.
That is my understanding of it.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Brother Fred!
May God, however He is, bless you in every way.

Brother Adam,
The same to you and may the Holy Spirit (the subject of this thread) be your constant guide and inspire you well.
:)Peace and kindness,:)
Fred

OK so. God said that he 'sent his only begotten son' to us.

So... did he say 'I am coming to earth to save you'

Or 'i am sending my son to save you from your sins'

I want someone to point out where in the bible jesus ever specifically said 'i am god'

Or when god said 'my son is god'

This is the part where God says that His Son is God.

Hebrews 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

Hebrews 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. (Worship belongs only to God, so if God Himself says to the angels to worship the Son, then His Son cannot be anything less than God)
Hebrews 1:7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

Hebrews 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Hebrews 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.


This is the part where Jesus says that He is God.


Exodus 3:13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?

Exodus 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

John 13:19 Now I tell you before it come, that, when it is come to pass, ye may believe that I am he.

John 18:3 Judas then, having received a band of men and officers from the chief priests and Pharisees, cometh thither with lanterns and torches and weapons.

John 18:4 Jesus therefore, knowing all things that should come upon him, went forth, and said unto them, Whom seek ye?

John 18:5 They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them.

John 18:6 As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.
Jesus said His name(I AM),and they fell to the ground,so if He Himself uses God's name for Himself,then this is like Him saying that He is God!

Ahh thank you adam :) that has always bothered me because I could never find references like those.

Now I understand the confusion so many people have. As much as we love our god, he was a bit inconsistent. Either that or we are just not understanding him correctly :P I'm going to have some firm words with Him when I meet him ;)

(ps, don't get all upset about blaspheming, HE knows I'm teasing him, and I'm sure he has a sense of humor, or we would not have one. And if I am wrong, he will forgive me for my minor misunderstanding as its an honest mistake)

Adam,
Well done.
Fred