I wanted to share this because I am just so happy about it!

My 19 year old cousin is gay. He has been since he was 16. Most of the family has outcasted him. But me and my husband have always welcomed him to our home when he needed it (as we did these last 2 weeks, he goes to job corps a few hours away and came home to visit with family for summer vacation) his parents do not even aprove of him. They love him, but approval and love are different.

Last night he went to stay the night at a neighbors house next to his parents, because my hosue is very far from his parents, and he is going home today and his parents don't have a lot of gas, and they need to take him to the bus station today (they do not allowe him to sleep in their house, which I understand, its their choice, and though I don't AGREE with them on it, I respect it)

And all these 2 weeks my husband and I have been making sure to include him into our bible studys with our daughter. He has closed his heart to God because he feels that being gay makes him unforgivable. Me and issac did all we could to make sure he knew that he was wrong. God loves him no matter what! If god can love a murderer and a thief and an adulterer as he has shown in the bible, then certainly he can love him for being gay.

This morning he called me. And told me that last night he cried and cried to himself and broke down and asked jesus back into his heart!! OMG MY HEART IS SO FULL! I feel like exploding! I am SO happy for him and so PROUD of him!!


(I know I am opening myself up to criticism, and different opinions. But try to be nice :) OK? )

Not sure what you are saying - he is going to be a practicing Cristian and gay OR he is going to be a practicing Christian and has renounced his "gayness."

That's a lovely story! Not surprised your really happy for him x

Im not entirely sure Judy. I know that last month he was talking to some 'gay christians' I know it sounds like an oxy moron. I am praying for him though, in hopes that he can understand gods laws AS WELL as share in his love.

I'm glad your cousin experienced this breakthrough. Being gay is a sin but it is a forgivable sin. In particular, gay people can choose to remain celibate just as a heterosexual person can remain celibate. And if he remains celibate then he's not guilty of anything sinful, at least not specifically related to being gay. Sure, he may "lust" after other men just the same way that a straight person may lust after someone of the opposite sex. And the lusting is sinful for a straight person just as it is for a gay person, even though lusting in and of itself doesn't involve any overt sexual activity. The real point is that, when it comes to sins of a sexual nature, straight people as just as vulnerable as gay people.

And that's exactly what I told him s_cianci. I told him that as a christian, he can be sinless (at least in THIS situation, no one is sinless completly) if he does not participate in the 'act' if you know what I mean.

I find no "sin" in being gay. I figure it's up to God to judge, not me.

I am glad you are happy about this and wish him peace, whatever his decision may be. And, yes, there are certainly Gay Christian groups out there.

It is very apparent that you love him no matter what and that is heartwarming. I also know how sincere you are, how much you are trying to help him find his way and very often people are so busy condemning the person, telling him he's a sinner, that they forget we are all human.

Good for you!

I don't mean that it's a sin to be gay in its self. God said man shall not lie with man. Its not really a sin unless he accually commits the sexual act with another man. Or like CS said, the lusting, but that's for gay or straight alike.

Everyone has a different take on gays, of course. I am more offended by straight men who don't support their children, quite frankly, than I am by gays, whether they are actively gay or not.

That's an excellent point judy lol (had to spread the rep)

Everyone has a different take on gays, of course. I am more offended by straight men who don't support their children, quite frankly, than I am by gays, whether they are actively gay or not.

No sin is better than another.

1 Cor 6:9-11
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.
NKJV

It is not a matter whether you or I are offended, but whether God has said that it is a sin.

i dont mean that its a sin to be gay in its self. god said man shall not lie with man. its not really a sin unless he accually commits the sexual act with another man. or like CS said, the lusting, but thats for gay or straight alike.

It is not just the act that is a sin. Jesus dealt with those who tried to get away with that position regarding other sins, where they thought it was just the act that was a sin:

Matt 5:27-28
27 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not commit adultery.' 28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
NKJV

And there is more that he had to say in this regard, so the sin has been committed before the act take place. An orientation towards a sinful act is, according to Jesus, a sin in and of itself.

Very good points hon. Thank you for pointing that out to me. I will continue to pray for him and try to convince him of what is right (if he hasn't already)


On a side note, I can't imagine the agony for a homosexual, who wants to be a good christian, and to also know that it's a Sin.

Can you imagine how much they must HATE themselves? Many people (including myself) believe that while, a homosexual may not WANT to be the way they are, they can't help it.

very good points hon. thank you for pointing that out to me. i will continue to pray for him and try to convince him of what is right (if he hasnt already)

on a side note, i can't imagine the agony for a homosexual, who wants to be a good christian, and to also know that its a Sin.

can you imagin how much they must HATE themselves? many people (including myself) believe that while, a homosexual may not WANT to be the way they are, they can't help it.

It is important to realize that it is a choice. We all struggle with sin our lives. And all believers hate it when they sin. I never understood why so much focus is given on this one sin. Look at how Paul struggled with the sin nature:

Rom 7:13-25
13 Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful. 14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God--through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.
NKJV

I don't know why they would hate themselves - but as they grow in the knowledge of God and His word, and as the Holy Spirit continues to guide them in their Christian walk, they will more and more see how their lives fail to align with what God wants for them - as it is for the rest of us. The sin may be different, but a person who struggles with the sin of homosexuality should be treated as being no better or no worse than a person who struggles with a multitude of other sins, like you and I.

I'm so glad you're here Tj3, every post you make is so knowledgeable and helpful. Are you a pastor (priest/ect) ? You should be :P

When people come to God they are to repent and ask God to reveal the changes they need to make in their life. So he needs to pray to God to help him overcome his desires and give them to God.
We all have to empty ourselves and allow God to guide us from there. It takes years sometimes for some people. Then some people that accept Jesus never do get it and continue in the way they are.

VERy good point nohelp, (you really should change your name :P you give LOTS of help lol)

I will definitely tell him this, that helps a lot.

are you a pastor (priest/ect) ? you should be :P

No, I am just another believer who has studied God's word for many years.

It is not just the act that is a sin. Jesus dealt with those who tried to get away with that position regarding other sins, where they thought it was just the act that was a sin:

Matt 5:27-28
27 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not commit adultery.' 28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
NKJV

And there is more that he had to say in this regard, so the sin has been committed before the act take place. An orientation towards a sinful act is, according to Jesus, a sin in and of itself.


You are certainly entitled to interpret your Bible in any way you wish - I don't just don't happen to agree with you.

It's the people who are so busy judging other people that I wonder/worry about - good that you can cast the first stone.

I don't feel I'm in that position.

I lost my interest in this thread when one person had to be repeatedly "pulled" because of his ranting, raving and name calling, another posted that he didn't believe in an eye for an eye EXCEPT if someone raped his daughter and a third who finds waterboarding and other means of torture acceptable.

I realize you are none of those people but it caused me to wonder just why these three felt they could judge other people.

If your faith gives you comfort and guidance, I'm glad for you.

I smoke,I drink,I have sex and I live in a glass house..
I'm glad God will judge me and see my heart and not other christians.

I'm happy for your cousins decision jenniepepsi.

*ugh I STILL have to spread rep before I can rep you again judy. But here is a vitural greenie. Well said!

You are certainly entitled to interpret your Bible in any way you wish - I don't just don't happen to agree with you.

It does not matter if you agree with me. I just quoted what God says in His word. Your disagreement therefore is not with me, but with Him.



It's the people who are so busy judging other people that I wonder/worry about - good that you can cast the first stone.

I judged no one. You however appear to have judged me by making that comment. Consider before you point fingers!

It is always A great thing for someone to find that in themselves no matter orientation , backgroun, race, anything it is in your heart that matters and God will guide him to where he needs to be that is not for anyone to say where he needs to be or what he needs to do not I, not U, not anyone on the Internet and I will include your family in our night time prayers tonight , that you all may find everything that you are seeking, and that your happiness will grow with time... Have a good one and I am happy for you!!

It does not matter if you agree with me. I just quoted what God says in His word. Your disagreement therefore is not with me, but with Him.



I judged no one. You however appear to have judged me by making that comment. Consider before you point fingers!



Your God may have said that. Mine did not. There's a difference.

You judged no one? Read your post again.

Your God may have said that. Mine did not. There's a difference.

So we follow different Gods. I can believe and accept that. I follow the God of the Bible. I don't know you, so I am not familiar with your religion.


You judged no one? Read your post again.

I did - did you? If you are going to make accusations, it might be good for you to at least bring forward evidence - or better still, I would suggest that posting public accusations against another board member in a thread dedicated to a different topic is in fact inappropriate and represents hijacking of the thread.

I did - did you? If you are going to make accusations, it might be good for you to at least bring forward evidence - or better still, I would suggest that posting public accusations against another board member in a thread dedicated to a different topic is in fact inappropriate and represents hijacking of the thread.


Concerning the portion I have placed in bold - evidence of what? I will post the exact threads and names if it is appropriate. I personally don't think that is appropriate.

But let the moderators decide.

Concerning the portion I have placed in bold - evidence of what? I will post the exact threads and names if it is appropriate. I personally don't think that is appropriate.

But let the moderators decide.

I was referring to evidence of your accusations, which you choose to make public but not substantiate.

I was referring to evidence of your accusations, which you choose to make public but not substantiate.


I don't want to distract from the subject or highjack the thread BUT you can use the search feature and find what I have referenced.

If you can't and a moderator feels the info must be made public, so be it.

I don't want to distract from the subject or highjack the thread BUT you can use the search feature and find what I have referenced.

If you can't and a moderator feels the info must be made public, so be it.

You keep making vague references to something that you claim that I did, and suggest that everyone go look for whatever it may be, but unwilling to actually substantiate. There is are words for that - innuendo and gossip.

I would once again suggest two things.

1) I would suggest that you cease hijacking the thread. If you have something to report to a moderator, do so.

2) If you cannot hold back from hijacking the thread with allegations, at least substantiate your claims.

Now, since it appears that you are not going to follow the suggestion in #2, please follow #1 and let us get on with the topic of the thread.

Let's try to get back to the topic:

----------------

It is important to realize that it is a choice. We all struggle with sin our lives. And all believers hate it when they sin. I never understood why so much focus is given on this one sin. Look at how Paul struggled with the sin nature:

Rom 7:13-25
13 Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful. 14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God--through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.
NKJV

I don't know why they would hate themselves - but as they grow in the knowledge of God and His word, and as the Holy Spirit continues to guide them in their Christian walk, they will more and more see how their lives fail to align with what God wants for them - as it is for the rest of us. The sin may be different, but a person who struggles with the sin of homosexuality should be treated as being no better or no worse than a person who struggles with a multitude of other sins, like you and I.

It isn't even a matter of "choosing" to be homosexual. It is a matter of choosing to please ourselves by having sex outside of marriage whether it be fornication, adultery, lust, sodomy, etc. You can quote me on this next one, "the 'world' encourages an irresponsible obsession with immediate sensual gratification."
Oh and by the way, TJ3 is right and if Judykaytree does have a different God, why is she making comments on the christianity circuit? I mean how can you be a follower of Christ(a christian) and not believe what jesus said?

I tried to give you a "greenie" but I need to spread more around first.

I agree entirely with what you said here.

[QUOTE=Tj3 disagrees: False unsubstnatiate accusations are not appropriate..[/QUOTE]



It is the decision of a moderator that my accusations were not appropriate and were false and "unsubstnatiate" (whatever that means)?

If so, with the moderator's approval, I will post names and threads. Then when this turns into a civil war we can both be on the firing line.

PLUS this is a revenge reddie - so much for Christian "turn the other cheek." As with everyone, I pay more attention to action than words.

I think it's all been said - instead of supporting "Jennie" we are tearing her cousin apart.

Enough - time to close.

It is the decision of a moderator that my accusations were not appropriate and were false and "unsubstnatiate" (whatever that means)?

If so, with the moderator's approval, I will post names and threads.

So I presume that you are saying until then, you intend to keep hijacking the thread? Is that right?


PLUS this is a revenge reddie - so much for Christian "turn the other cheek." As with everyone, I pay more attention to action than words.

Judging again, are you?

So I presume that you are saying until then, you intend to keep hijacking the thread? Is that right?



Judging again, are you?



Yes, that's right and yes, I'm judging, specifically you.

You didn't answer my question - you reported my post to the moderator. What was the decision before I post the threads I referred to?

Wondergirl disagrees: Has Jennipepsi asked her cousin when did he choose to be gay??

I don't don't what difference "when" makes, but if instead of posting a "reddie", if you chose to ask or even read the question, you would have gotten your answer. Here is a quote from the OP.

"my 19 year old cousin is gay. he has been since he was 16."

Yes, that's right and yes, I'm judging, specifically you.

So, you make demeaning remarks and accusations about others judging, when you do that very same thing yourself - there is a word for that also.

I ask again if you would please stop hijacking the thread.

So, you make demeaning remarks and accusations about others judging, when you do that very same thing yourself - there is a word for that also.

I ask again if you would please stop hijacking the thread.



Again - what did the moderator say?

Oh, Wondergirl - brace yourself for the revenge reddie that will soon be coming your way.

You didn't answer my question - you reported my post to the moderator. What was the decision before I post the threads I referred to?

I had not reported anything - you are the one who kept speaking about moderators.

I said that if you had anything to say about others, then you should leave it off the thread and take it to the moderators.

Let's try to get back to the topic:

----------------

It is important to realize that it is a choice. We all struggle with sin our lives. And all believers hate it when they sin. I never understood why so much focus is given on this one sin. Look at how Paul struggled with the sin nature:

Rom 7:13-25
13 Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful. 14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God--through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.
NKJV

I don't know why they would hate themselves - but as they grow in the knowledge of God and His word, and as the Holy Spirit continues to guide them in their Christian walk, they will more and more see how their lives fail to align with what God wants for them - as it is for the rest of us. The sin may be different, but a person who struggles with the sin of homosexuality should be treated as being no better or no worse than a person who struggles with a multitude of other sins, like you and I.

It isn't even a matter of "choosing" to be homosexual. It is a matter of choosing to please ourselves by having sex outside of marriage whether it be fornication, adultery, lust, sodomy, etc. You can quote me on this next one, "the 'world' encourages an irresponsible obsession with immediate sensual gratification."
Oh and by the way, TJ3 is right and if Judykaytree does have a different God, why is she making comments on the christianity circuit? I mean how can you be a follower of Christ(a christian) and not believe what jesus said?

I tried to give you a "greenie" but I need to spread more around first.

I agree entirely with what you said here.

Tj3 quit reposting that same post every 5 posts. That's spam.

Tj3 quit reposting that same post every 5 posts. thats spam.

It is necessary because of the hijacking by JudyKaytee. Once we can get her to stop her hijacking, then there will be no need to try to get back on topic.

"my 19 year old cousin is gay. he has been since he was 16."
That's when he finally admitted to himself that his sexual feelings were for males. It doesn't mean he CHOSE to be gay then. Jenniepepsi could ask him if he chose that.

That's when he finally admitted to himself that his sexual feelings were for males. It doesn't mean he CHOSE to be gay then. Jenniepepsi could ask him if he chose that.

Scripture gives a much different perspective, and even science has found no evidence of your claim that it is not a choice. Yet you insist that it is not a choice.

First of all, its MY post, so I may have to check with the mods on this, but if I, the OP, is also hyjacking, can it REALLY be considered hyjacking? Especially in the religeon board, which, as far as I understand, is a discussion board?

And it is NOT nessisary. You are not guiltless in the 'hyjacking' of this thread, and yes, getting back on topic is fine, but reposting the same thing, (which you have done 3 times so far) is pointless and stupid.

Lovingly and respectfully :)

Jennie :)


(and I don't mind if this gets closed :) I have said what I wanted to say about my cousin. I am STILL proud of him. And I am glad everyoen knows it :) )

Again - what did the moderator say?

Oh, Wondergirl - brace yourself for the revenge reddie that will soon be coming your way.

Judy, this is the way Tom is. When you don't agree with him, when you dare to question his post, he will accuse you of hijacking, of name calling and worse. Sadly I know this all too well from having dealt with him before.

He doesn't have an answer to your questions. That's just how he is.

I'll get backlash for this, accusations of hijacking, of stalking him, even though I didn't even realize he was on this thread until I started reading it. Congrats, you're now on the naughty list too, along with Wondergirl and me. ;)

Jennie. I have a problem with something.

You said in a previous post that as long as your cousin isn't actively gay it's okay. So he's allowed to be interested in men, find them attractive, but if he actually dates a man, has sex with a man, then he's no longer a Christian and he's going to hell?

Another good reason not to follow the bible. I don't believe in a God that's this judgemental. Especially considering that, if he made the world, and all those in it, then he made the gays too, but he hates them, won't allow them into heaven? What kind of God is that? Sounds pretty hateful to me.

first of all, its MY post, so i may have to check with the mods on this, but if I, the OP, is also hyjacking, can it REALLY be considered hyjacking? especially in the religeon board, which, as far as i understand, is a discussion board?

and it is NOT nessisary. you are not guiltless in the 'hyjacking' of this thread, and yes, getting back on topic is fine, but reposting the same thing, (which you have done 3 times so far) is pointless and stupid.

If there is a need to get back on topic, then we need to get back to the last post relevant to the topic, and yes, if a thread on one topic is used to post abuse about another member, then it is wrong regardless of who thinks it okay.

Judy, this is the way Tom is. When you don't agree with him, when you dare to question his post, he will accuse you of hijacking, of name calling and worse. Sadly I know this all too well from having dealt with him before.

He doesn't have an answer to your questions. That's just how he is.

I'll get backlash for this, accusations of hijacking, of stalking him, even though I didn't even realize he was on this thread until I started reading it.

You brought us stalking - it is interesting though - virtually every thread that I post on, you show up to post abuse.

Jennie. I have a problem with something.

You said in a previous post that as long as your cousin isn't actively gay it's okay. So he's allowed to be interested in men, find them attractive, but if he actually dates a man, has sex with a man, then he's no longer a Christian and he's going to hell?

Another good reason not to follow the bible. I don't believe in a God that's this judgemental. Especially considering that, if he made the world, and all those in it, then he made the gays too, but he hates them, won't allow them into heaven? What kind of God is that? Sounds pretty hateful to me.


Oh no hon that's not what I meant. I meant that only the act of sex with a man is sin.

But I have since learned that the lusting after a man is also a sin. So I was wrong.

I agree with you. I don't believe God to be all unforgiving and judgemental and cold and heartleass at all. I believe my god to be a kind, loving, forgiving, just, and gentle god.

And I don't care what anyone thinks of that :)

Another good reason not to follow the bible. I don't believe in a God that's this judgemental. Especially considering that, if he made the world, and all those in it, then he made the gays too, but he hates them, won't allow them into heaven? What kind of God is that? Sounds pretty hateful to me.

Wow - you made a lot of accusations against God. I'd be interested in where you got all this?

I see nowhere where scripture says that God hates gays. Perhaps you could quote me the verse.

She didn't GET it from anywahere. This is what she believes. And she is more than welcome to believe ANYTHING she wants.

she didnt GET it from anywahere. this is what she believes. and she is more than welcome to believe ANYTHING she wants.

If that is what she believes about her god, that is fine - if she is making that accusation about the God of the Bible, then that is a different issue.

Kids can't play nice , now they are all reporting each other.

Closed

Wow - you made a lot of accusations against God. I'd be interested in where you got all this?

I see nowhere where scripture says that God hates gays. Perhaps you could quote me the verse.


1 Cor 6:9-11
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.
NKJV

Your very own post Tom.