Thank the good lord, my son is finally old enough to live on his own and keep a roof over his headl. The problem, unfortunately, is that he has literally cast me aside and the pain is excruciating.

A single mom, I had no financial support from my ex-husband, his father, from the day he was born. We separated while I was pregnant. When my son reached around 6 years old, his father totally abandoned. He ducked the courts, disappeared and resurfaced after I'd done all the heavy lifting to raise him. My son was ADHD, asthmatic, oppositional defiant, a cutter, a bully and more. He went to a special school and had repeated therapy. Raising him was a nightmare, but for about 3 years after he dropped out of college, the days of pleasantry outnumbered the days of chaos.

His father, who resurfaced when my son was 18, covered up his wrongdoing by blaming me for his not being there. My son, who desperately wanted a father, bought into it. He repeatedly flaunted his father's wealth at me and put me down for "behaving" like a victim. He deplores the struggles that kept a roof over his head all those years, with zero appreciation for any efforts that I made on his behalf.

After a rough start, he's managed to hold a job and he has a girlfriend. But he's become absolutely horrid to me. He sees a psychiatrist who is supposed to be a family specialist but the man confided in me, after my son created a total rift between us, that the same thing happened to him... twice. I have little hope that a psychiatrist who can't keep his own family together, could possible have the key to help mine. We have no discussion. After successive phone calls that he refused to return, I wrote to him and he wrote back.

I feel that my button-pushing son now has a girlfriend that he is currently using as a host to his parasitic ways. I see him as a parasite because neither "loving" nor "appreciation" are in his portfolio of behaviors, only manipulating and taking what he wants.

She was bullied by her last boyfriend. He actually hit her before she recognized she was dealing with a bully. She is unable to see my son as the bully he is, and I am concerned about how he behaves toward her. She does his bidding and will not speak with me.

He did something very nasty to a friend of mine. When I asked him to apologize, he screamed that it was all my fault and slammed down the phone. He subsequently texted me that he won't listen to anything I have to say, not by email, text, voicemail or letter. He didn't call for my birthday, the holidays, mother's day... nothing. It's been 10 months.

I asked him to go with me for family counseling and his response was that I am a manic depressed person, and that the "condition" by which he will "consider" going for 1 family session is if I go for 3 sessions with a Psychiatrist.

He is correct on one score, I have had extreme depression over this circumstance and am attempting to deal with it as I can. I find it an absolute outrage that my son set a "condition" for what should be "unconditional" love. It's one thing to ask someone to do something you feel is in their best interest. It's very different to "demand" they do something in order to show them any love.

I know he is deliberately setting an obstacle that can't be met because whether I see a therapist for myself is my business, not his and because he has been so untrustworthy- I can not share anything medical about myself with him.

His girlfriend helps share expenses for the apartment and their lifestyle. Before her, his father gave him money for his apartment because I would not provide financial support for him to leave home unless he went to school. I felt he needed to be able to stand up on his own and be independent in order to make good decisions for his life. His ability to mooch off others enables him to create pseudo independence as well as this agonizingly painful, grotesque separation.

I have no interest in interferring with their life. I would simply like to feel that my son cares. He has no idea whether I am alive or dead. My company abruptly closed recently and he didn't even call for a kind word of support. He has to know it happened. It was a well known firm and we're in the same industry, in the same town... in fact, when he moved out, he rented an apartment only about 8 blocks away from me.

Does anyone have any suggestions? I'd be forever grateful.

Hello Mom,

I am not a mental health practitioner but I have had some personal experience.

I can hear your pain. Your son is 28 yrs old, an adult, you can't "make" him do anything. What your son does now is all HIS doing, you know that, he won't change his ways until he is ready to which may or may not happen. You've done everything you could for him as he was growing up and some day he will realize that but for now what you need to do now is make a life for yourself. Find a counsellor YOU can talk to and deal with the issues that are affecting you and only you.
I learned a long time ago that the only person responsible for your own happiness is you.

Good luck

I'm sorry this has happened to you Flossie, you are not alone having an estranged adult son.

He could be treating you this way because he doesn't want to face the truth himself. To give you even an inch, would open a door that may require him to change his attitude toward you, and he doesn't want to.

He has his life the way he wants it; his needs are being met all the way around. You know the type of person he is- he cannot get anything from you that he needs right now, so he simply won't bother.

It is hard to realize with our adult children, that they are in control of their lives, and may never allow for reconcilliation. I think that over time, you just have to look at him more of an adult on his own, rather than a son with an unhealthy relationship with you. It may never happen that there will be peace with him. You cannot change him, and you can't change the past, or shape the future.

It is his own limitations that prevent a relationship with you. He may not understand himself why he has this shortcoming. To him, his own understanding of you is the correct one, and again, that is not something you can change.

You know the truth because you raised him, and watched him grow, and become an independent adult. All that time, agony, blood sweat and tears, don't always result in gratitude, or even common courtesy, as you're seeing now. He shows you no respect, and even if he had serious differences of opinion with you, he shows a lack of maturity in dealing with his concerns appropriately.

My best advice to you is to leave the ball in his court, and at the same time set some boundaries. Separate him, from living your life. Don't waste any more time trying to convince him to establish a relationship with you. And don't give in to his demands that you seek help before he'll consider counselling. That's not the way it works.

You have offered all you can offer. You've done all you can do. The truth is on your side, and your job is done. No need for explanations or corrections, what's done is done.

Live your life! He's made his own way, and now you have to make yours. Your life was not meant for you to be a parent to a 28 year old. Let him live his life, and you get out there and enjoy yours to the fullest. Should he come around in the future, keep yourself at arms length, enjoy the good he has to offer, and allow him to deal with the problems in his own life. They are his problems now, not yours.

I agree... as hard as it may be as a mom... (and I am a mom, and I can't even fathom the pain you must be feeling) you are going to have to let him make his own choices... keep your doors open to him... and hopefully he will grow up and come around again...

Good luck hon, and you are in my prayers.

You are the one that has to learn how to cut the apron strings. He seems to have done this himself. You need to now cut your apron strings to him.

He's an adult living elsewhere with another person. It's hard for you to handle being alone and not having to constantly take care of him and put up with his abuse. I guess your life now seems empty without all that chaos he caused for all those years that you had to endure it.

Get out and see your friends, go places even if it's alone, get a dog for a companion, in other words start living YOUR life now instead of constantly hovering over your little darling. He grew up when you weren't looking. As far as father not giving a dime that's your fault if you let him skate without paying child support. Won't go there but sonny obviously is holding this against you in his own warped way. Sorry about that but you should have gone after it but it's way too late now to even bother with.

If your son doesn't remember your birthday, mother's day, etc. just remember he thinks about you but he's off having no contact with you and that may be the way he wants it now. You can't force him to be with you or talk to you if he doesn't want to. Sometimes the harder you try and push a person the more stubborn he gets. Why are you pushing for a family counseling session? What do you think you will accomplish? Quite frankly, I think he's just plain tired of you running his life for him and being overly protective of him. Let him fall on his face a few times and grow up and hopefully see the folly of his ways.

Just remember you will always be his mother. That will never change - ever. He just needs some space to grow up and be a man on his own. He'll come back even if it takes 10 years. He'll come back and talk to you and visit you when he wants to. Just let him know you'll be there for him and don't push him into anything he does not want right now or you will be literally pushing him away with both hands.

His father disappeared. Before he disappeared, the court awarded me $30 per week because he lied about his income. FThe man drove a Porsch, travelled the world and lived large. The cost of hiring a detective to go after facts about his income would cost me the money it took to keep a roof over my asthmatic, ADHD son's head. The man never even helped to pay the delivery bill for his child.

I had to live in the real world where my son needed food, clothing, medical attention, care and special education while I went on earning the money that gave him those things.

His father failed to pay the $30 per week and the cost of attorney's fees to go after him, and private detectives to find him in the first place, was prohibitive... and for no return. He hid all his money. He left his job and earned mostly cash and out of the country.

As to "my little darling", he hasn't been for several years. He was a difficult, oppositional/defiant youth who had ADHD and abandonment issues.

I'm not upset about my son being gone. It's a relief. I'm upset about him being horrid and unappreciative to me. There's a difference between leaving and hurling hatred. My son is hurling hatred. It is heartbreaking.

I have a dog. I have a life. Having a mean son who withholds caring is a sorrow there are no words to describe. I was never doting. I raised him to be independent. He doesn't simply forget my birthday, mother's day and the holidays. He deliberately refuses to acknowledge my existence. He is wretched to me. Before he did so, he wrote me telling me that he was doing so.

He told me that unless I buy things for him, what does he need me for. I am not important to him and he does not care if I live or die. Being gone is one thing. Being wretched to your parent is quite another.

I have a degenerating physical condition. These could be the last years of my life to be relatively healthy unless a medical miracle comes my way. I am living through physical pain along with having a tormenting son.

In 10 years he could "find" his way back. In 10 years, I could be crippled or gone.

You've said he is "wretched", he is not goingto change anytime soon, if at all.:(

You've done your best, you know it and I'm sure family and friends know it. That's all you can do.

I'm sorry for your pain and heartache. Be happy with who YOU are and the life YOU have, stop worrying about him and how he treats you as it will only drag you down and can have negative effect on your whole wellbeing. I wish there was more I could say. All the best to you:)

It hurts to know that he is not capable of understanding how his actions affect you, and I would be very hurt as well.

Despite knowing that he has no plans to do even simple things like a mothers' day card, really does show a lack of connection between affect, and even simple acknowledgements. But even if he were to send a card or give you a call, I suspect that it would be out of duty and a sense of obligation, and he wouldn't mean it anyway. So either way, it would be meaningless.

It does not sound like he is truly capable of understanding emotion, and feeling any sort of emotional connection outside himself, and his needs. I imagine he would be quite demanding on the one hand of others, and give nothing, or very little in return. He just doesn't 'feel' it, doing that means nothing to him. And in his world, it's all about him anyway.

That being said, it isn't anything you have done that makes him this way, it is just the way he is. He will wear people out quickly in his life, when his relationships are good only as long as his needs are being met.

Not likely that he will change, this is the way he is. While you may hope in your heart of hearts that he will show a little more loving behaviour toward you, and an understanding of all you have done for him, it may never happen.

It would take so little for him to do, to show some appreciation. That he is the way he is as a 28 year old, that isn't likely to happen.

You have a good head on your shoulders, and you've gone above and beyond.

Parenting can be a really thankless job.

Thank the good lord, my son is finally old enough to live on his own and keep a roof over his headl. The problem, unfortunately, is that he has literally cast me aside and the pain is excruciating.

A single mom, I had no financial support from my ex-husband, his father, from the day he was born. We separated while I was pregnant. When my son reached around 6 years old, his father totally abandoned. He ducked the courts, disappeared and resurfaced after I'd done all the heavy lifting to raise him. My son was ADHD, asthmatic, oppositional defiant, a cutter, a bully and more. He went to a special school and had repeated therapy. Raising him was a nightmare, but for about 3 years after he dropped out of college, the days of pleasantry outnumbered the days of chaos.

His father, who resurfaced when my son was 18, covered up his wrongdoing by blaming me for his not being there. My son, who desperately wanted a father, bought into it. He repeatedly flaunted his father's wealth at me and put me down for "behaving" like a victim. He deplores the struggles that kept a roof over his head all those years, with zero appreciation for any efforts that I made on his behalf.

After a rough start, he's managed to hold a job and he has a girlfriend. But he's become absolutely horrid to me. He sees a psychiatrist who is supposed to be a family specialist but the man confided in me, after my son created a total rift between us, that the same thing happened to him....twice. I have little hope that a psychiatrist who can't keep his own family together, could possible have the key to help mine. We have no discussion. After succesive phone calls that he refused to return, I wrote to him and he wrote back.

I feel that my button-pushing son now has a girlfriend that he is currently using as a host to his parasitic ways. I see him as a parasite because neither "loving" nor "appreciation" are in his portfolio of behaviors, only manipulating and taking what he wants.

She was bullied by her last boyfriend. He actually hit her before she recognized she was dealing with a bully. She is unable to see my son as the bully he is, and I am concerned about how he behaves toward her. She does his bidding and will not speak with me.

He did something very nasty to a friend of mine. When I asked him to apologize, he screamed that it was all my fault and slammed down the phone. He subsequently texted me that he won't listen to anything I have to say, not by email, text, voicemail or letter. He didn't call for my birthday, the holidays, mother's day....nothing. It's been 10 months.

I asked him to go with me for family counseling and his response was that I am a manic depressed person, and that the "condition" by which he will "consider" going for 1 family session is if I go for 3 sessions with a Psychiatrist.

He is correct on one score, I have had extreme depression over this circumstance and am attempting to deal with it as I can. I find it an absolute outrage that my son set a "condition" for what should be "unconditional" love. It's one thing to ask someone to do something you feel is in their best interest. It's very different to "demand" they do something in order to show them any love.

I know he is deliberately setting an obstacle that can't be met because whether I see a therapist for myself is my business, not his and because he has been so untrustworthy- I can not share anything medical about myself with him.

His girlfriend helps share expenses for the apartment and their lifestyle. Before her, his father gave him money for his apartment because I would not provide financial support for him to leave home unless he went to school. I felt he needed to be able to stand up on his own and be independent in order to make good decisions for his life. His ability to mooch off others enables him to create psuedo independance as well as this agonizingly painful, grotesque separation.

I have no interest in interferring with their life. I would simply like to feel that my son cares. He has no idea whether I am alive or dead. My company abruptly closed recently and he didn't even call for a kind word of support. He has to know it happened. It was a well known firm and we're in the same industry, in the same town....in fact, when he moved out, he rented an apartment only about 8 blocks away from me.

Does anyone have any suggestions? I'd be forever grateful.

I see abuse in your own words. Sorry but your not innocent in all of this. Your calling him a parasite. That is so low. He has cut the mommy strings and living his own life and your not excepting of it. You say it was hard raising him, but maybe just maybe it was hard for him too growing up. Always having problems with different things. Also not having a father. These things can negatively effect a growing man. It is up to him who he wants to be around and how he behaves. He is, his own person now. He has to learn about life and grow in his own way.

I honestly do not think you should wait for family counseling. I think you need to work on yourself and fix yourself up and get counseling on your own. Stop blaming others and please start living your own life for yourself. Not your son anymore. You think it is okay to meddle with your sons health and business yet, your not willing to share anything with him about you. It is your own business, but everything about your son is yours. I do not think so.

28 years old if I am correct. It is time for you to let go. There is always ALWAYS HOPE FOR RECONCILIATION LATER ON. Just do not push it on him or your going to infuriate him more and push him away more.

I think that you are more concerned about your own hurt and feelings here. That maybe he turned out the way he did and you blame yourself. The thing is LOVE YOUR SON, NO MATTER HOW HE BEHAVES. Does not mean you agree with his behavior but also let him to his own vices. Letting go is the best thing you can do right now.

Stop calling him a parasite. Get counseling for yourself. Do not be concerned about your son its his own life that he needs to take care of now.

His counselor or psychiatrist would actually know more about this experience. If he has had it in his own life. That would actually help him counsel better somebody else in the same situation. He was not acting professional by talking to you. He should not have been talking to you unless you were seeing him yourself.

Flossie and Jake2008-

Thank you both so much for your input. I posed my question in order to see if there was something I was overlooking that I could do or say to him that could get through to him. I've done all I could think of. I just needed to know if someone had some revelation I had not considered.

I appreciate your taking the time to pass along your wisdom.

Many thanks!

I think you have wracked your brain long enough. Take a breather and enjoy life! It's way too short to waste on the negatives of life!

To Jesushelper76-

I did not call my son a parasite. 1. I spoke of his behavior, 2. It's a term for his behavior that I used to perfect strangers that will never get back to him and that sums up the kind of connection to me that he has.

I didn't think, in this forum, that it made sense to explain his behaior by saying he is covert aggressive with borderline personality disorder or to go through long, drawn out examples of how it applies.

My son didn't cut the apron strings, he bombed them and the person who wore them with a nuclear weapon. There's a difference.

My son is my only family. Everyone else in my family died. My extended family, the few who are left, live all the way across the country and we haven't been connected since my childhood.

I don't dote on him. I don't expect him to share anything he doesn't want to with me, and I don't pry. He has always come to me when he needed help. I have always helped him when he asked.

He has never asked me if I needed his help and the few times that I have asked, he was scornful and mean. He belittles me for having a need and bullies me into backing down. He takes without giving.

His absence shows me how little caring he actually has for me. How totally void he is of any desire to help me if I were to need him. He won't respond to an email, a text, a voice mail. If I called for help, he wouldn't be there. Whenever he called for help, I was always there.

It is heartbreaking.

He expects me to welcome him with open arms when he gets tired of being hateful. How disrespectful and unappreciative. How insulting and indescent.

He has destroyed my trust by misusing the unconditional love I have for him. Setting a condition by which he will extend love to me is not acceptable behavior and by doing so, he is not entitiled to the information his bad act demands. His behavior is untrustworthy therefore I can no longer trust him.

I love my son. I would walk through the fire for him. I would lay down my life for him.

I am, nor do I expect to be, anything but his mother. My father had a mother. My mother had a mother. I had a mother. I loved and repected my parents throughout their lives, even though they and I did not see eye to eye in every instance.

I supported myself from the time I was 19. There were no apron strings tying me to my parents. But never once did it ever cross my mind that just because they were no longer supporting me, I could or should or would excuse myself from caring for or loving them.

My son has let me know that he doesn't care for me. He has specifically told me that because I'm not supporting him any longer, I mean nothing to him. He's broken my heart.

I have a fulfilling life. I have good friends and interesting work. If my son was absent from my life because he was across the country, it would not make a huge dent in my existense. I would miss him. But I would enjoy the other gifts I have.

The manner with which my son perpetuates this type of absence, however, is excruciating. It is hard for me to have a life of joy with this terrible pain.

I know you feel alone. I feel bad for that. Your son is an adult now and should learn that he must face the consequences of his actions. He is very hostile! If I was in your spot I would cut ties with him. He is creating more harm than good. Since you have so much going on in your life, work, friends etc. move on. Don't give in when he calls you for help. Maybe having one occasion when mommy does not come to a rescue will help him realize how poorly he treats you.

You still have not addressed the issues that are there. You yourself need counseling? Are you doing this yet? Your son is your world but guess what he is 28 years old and his own man. Cutting the apron strings. It seems like your still in denial. You have said it is not of his business whether you seek out counsel or not yet you have talked to his psychiatrist and pretty much said this person is useless. I do not get that you do not understand that there are two sides to every story and your trying to get everybody to feel sorry for you including your son.

Please go for your own counseling and work out your personal issues and let go of your son. Continue to love him but let him to his own vices like I said before.

Everything I said in my previous post still stands. I am glad to hear you say you love your son, but time to let him go live his own life instead of being so desperate to have him by your side and forcing on him a relationship he does not want at this time.

It is possible to have done everything humanly possible to raise a child to have the right morals and principles; teach all the lessons, live through the hard times without turning away, do everything possible to address needs, and still have a person turn out the way your son has.

Some adults with mental illness are needy all of their lives, to feed what they see as necessary for their survival. Some of those people know no other way than using people up, tossing them aside, and moving onto the next person in order to do that.

They don't make the distinction between mother/father/wife/neighbour/friend. They are all in the same kettle of fish, with no special status for any of them, unless they are the ones who, at the time, are needed.

Give and take isn't an option, it's all about take. There is no conscience that keeps checks and balances of behaviour in place, particularly bad behaviour. Their perceived survival depends on only them, special and unique, among a sea of possible 'givers' to keep feeding their needs.

It doesn't have to make sense because there are no cut and dried reasons, explanations, or treatment that can change who this person essentially is. You can modify behaviour, curb behaviour, teach appropriate coping skills etc. but it is not something that is internalized, or permanent. What you get is not the person you have tried to help, you get the same person who has decided that there is nothing in it for him to change, because it's a waste of his time, and does not suit his immediate needs, which is living day to day at the emotional expense of somebody else.

We tend to apply blame to either party, with nothing between. The truth is, with a son with mental illness, it takes far more blood sweat and tears, than with a person without mental health problems thrown in. For every 'normal' kid with a couple of visits to the doctor every year for normal childhood cuts, broken bones and infections, add a dozen more for the mentally disabled. More doctor visits, more testing, more prescriptions, more plans, more behaviour modifications, more modified discipline methods, special referrals for further assessment etc. etc. etc. It never ends.

And to that kind of effort by a good parent, you are no further ahead when all is said and done, except that he/she has survived their youth, has actually moved on, albeit at a later age, and is struggling with his own deamons now, and those people that are new to him, are also struggling to cope with him.

You learn to live your life never being able to say that your 28 year old is ready to be on his own, and is a well adjusted, normally functioning human being that you don't have to think twice about. Nor can you expect that his behaviour is temporary, because he's always been this way, and probably always will. He doesn't think he has any problems.

That being said, it isn't a matter, in my opinion, of cutting the apron strings. Having lived 28 years raising a child with mental illness, it is a matter of realizing that the apron strings had nothing to do with it. More likely it is letting go of even the most basic expectation; a card on mother's day, a kind word, any acknowledgement of the sacrifices made, even to the simplest of terms.

Any mother would be very hurt at not being remembered on Mothers Day, or her birthday. A mother who has had a sentence of 27 years with such a 'child' as described here, it would be devastating. The simplest, easiest act of kindness to acknowledge someone with a simple card, would have meant so much.

I think that the problem really is letting go, but not from the perspective that seems logical and practical to most people with adult children.

It is most likely that he will be back in your life, as his will fall apart on a regular basis in my opinion. I think it is a miracle in itself that you have raised him to be independent at all, and capable of living on his own. That in itself shows that you fostered him developing skills that he would need in the real world. Many would have given up.

Keep yourself focused on living your life, and not falling back into familiar patterns when and if, he does turn to you for help when others bail on him. He is capable on his own, of building another relationship with other people such as room-mates, etc. As he left your home with all that you taught him, is all that you can do, or provide or give.

Letting him live his life, regardless of his shortcomings or limitations, is the best gift you can give him.

I do not want my son at my side. You are very incorrect. There's a difference between "cutting the apron strings" and abject cruelty toward a parent.

To withhold a kind word at the holidays, birthday good wishes or even a call on mother's day- especially to a parent who you know you are the only family for, and when you live 8 blocks away, is not cutting apron strings, it's cruel behavior.

"Cutting the apron strings" means not relying on your parents... not treating them in a horrible way. For him to tell me I am "useless" to him because I "no longer dish out money to support him" and so he will never speak to me again is mean.

There's a difference.

I never said my son was useless... HE said I was "useless" to him. Mature people don't deal with their loved ones this way. Even if you don't go along with another person's opinion, you don't treat them with cruelty.

I am not trying to win anybody's sympathy. I am trying to determine if anyone has some insight that I and my therapist may have overlooked.

And the reason I don't disclose to him that I see a therapist is that a. he has demanded I do so as a "condition" of loving me. Just as he is entitled to my UNconditional love, I am entitled to his.

I don't make conditions for my sons behavior. Requests and conditions are two very different things. Requests are how adults communicate. Conditions are demands and incorporate a threat. It's not okay to threaten your loved ones. I have never threatened to whithold my love from my son because he does or did not do what I asked.

That's his father's tactic. His father's abandoned taught him that tool.

The only reason I see a therapist is to help deal with the horrible way my son behaves toward me. Other than the problems I have with him, I'm a very well adjusted person.

b. my son has clearly demonstrated, by using personal information he knows about me in a very detrimental way toward me, that he does not respect my privacy. I have NEVER disrespected his.

I did not speak to his doctor. I simply wrote to him because I thought he could tell me whether he felt it would be helpful for my son and I to seek family therapy to mend this divide. He wrote back. If he felt there was something wrong with my asking, he could have simply ignored my letter.

My intent was to ask a professional, who has insight into the problem, what the best course of action is for me to take. My son had invited me to do so. I did not complain about my son or call him "useless."

Obviously, not everyone who responds to these questions is either insightful or trying to be helpful. People provide an opinion that is motivated by their own past and the sometimes misguided impression based on what they think they read. Sometimes they read-in things that haunt them from their own relationships and I believe that's what you've done. I appreciate your input because you have given me an understanding of how my son thinks.

I'm his mother. I'll always be his mother and I will never give up on him. I don't expect him to be my little boy. I expect that he will be an adult and have a life. I expect he will be independent.

He has struggled for years to keep from being so and his father allowed that dependence on him because he felt guilty for their past.

I wish I could change things and have a normal relationship with an adult son. I don't see that as "denial." I'm a mom. We never give up.

Dear mom,
Im not going to highjack your post,but aside from a little age difference I'm in the same boat with my son,all I can say is it is very difficult you find yourself on day saying "fine im glad hes doing what hes doing,just think of the time and money id be out,all he ever did was take take take so fine im happy with it" then the next day your saying "how can he do this to me after all i did for him,thats my special boy i can't go on without him in my life"
So what can you do?
I try to tell myself a few little things to help me get through.
Ask ? Do you think he's this tore up over me not being around?
If we were to go back to communicating would things be different? Little side note my sons best friend lives two doors down so I get to see him coming and going yet not stopping.I know in my life I came from divorced parents and I went from worshiping Dad,to hating Dad,and back again and the same with mom.AS you grow and experience life you go through changes and these changes will cause you to look back and see things differently.

Hi hopelessmom,

I don't know if your last post was directed at me, but if it was you have missed a few points, if you wouldn't mind reading it again.

Of course you will always be his mother, and you will always love him, that's not questioned whatsoever.

My point is only that I understand what you are saying. But that being said, you are here for advice, and anybody stopping to offer assistance isn't out to insult you personally. You have to expect varied responses to your question, "Are there solutions for a 28 year old son with a parasitic mentality".

My impression is that overall, you need to concentrate on yourself more. While you may have an active social life and good friends, if, and I say if, it is clouded by the thoughts you carry of your son, you really aren't living your life as much as you probably should be.

Only you can reach that place where you don't have to ask the question you asked to find peace with him, and truly be settled with knowing that your life should be all about you now.

He may or may not be able, or willing, to change the direction of his own life. Most of us certainly sympathize with you as most of us are parents too.

From one woman and mother to another, I do think counselling is a good idea. Not because he has demanded it, but independent of that, just for you. Even if it is to vent to a person live, face to face, certainly can't do any harm.

I wish you all the best.

I do not want my son at my side. You are very incorrect. There's a difference between "cutting the apron strings" and abject cruelty toward a parent.

To withold a kind word at the holidays, birthday good wishes or even a call on mother's day- especially to a parent who you know you are the only family for, and when you live 8 blocks away, is not cutting apron strings, it's cruel behavior.

"Cutting the apron strings" means not relying on your parents...... not treating them in a horrible way. For him to tell me I am "useless" to him because I "no longer dish out money to support him" and so he will never speak to me again is mean.

There's a difference.

I never said my son was useless....HE said I was "useless" to him. Mature people don't deal with their loved ones this way. Even if you don't go along with another person's opinion, you don't treat them with cruelty.

I am not trying to win anybody's sympathy. I am trying to determine if anyone has some insight that I and my therapist may have overlooked.

And the reason I don't disclose to him that I see a therapist is that a. he has demanded I do so as a "condition" of loving me. Just as he is entitled to my UNconditional love, I am entitled to his.

I don't make conditions for my sons behavior. Requests and conditions are two very different things. Requests are how adults communicate. Conditions are demands and incorporate a threat. It's not okay to threaten your loved ones. I have never threatened to whithold my love from my son because he does or did not do what I asked.

That's his father's tactic. His father's abandoned taught him that tool.

The only reason I see a therapist is to help deal with the horrible way my son behaves toward me. Other than the problems I have with him, I'm a very well adjusted person.

b. my son has clearly demonstrated, by using personal information he knows about me in a very detrimental way toward me, that he does not respect my privacy. I have NEVER disrespected his.

I did not speak to his doctor. I simply wrote to him because I thought he could tell me whether he felt it would be helpful for my son and I to seek family therapy to mend this divide. He wrote back. If he felt there was something wrong with my asking, he could have simply ignored my letter.

My intent was to ask a professional, who has insight into the problem, what the best course of action is for me to take. My son had invited me to do so. I did not complain about my son or call him "useless."

Obviously, not everyone who responds to these questions is either insightful or trying to be helpful. People provide an opinion that is motivated by their own past and the sometimes misguided impression based on what they think they read. Sometimes they read-in things that haunt them from their own relationships and I believe that's what you've done. I appreciate your input because you have given me an understanding of how my son thinks.

I'm his mother. I'll always be his mother and I will never give up on him. I dont' expect him to be my little boy. I expect that he will be an adult and have a life. I expect he will be independent.

He has struggled for years to keep from being so and his father allowed that dependence on him because he felt guilty for their past.

I wish I could change things and have a normal relationship with an adult son. I don't see that as "denial." I'm a mom. We never give up.

You might be looking for a kind word and notice on these special occasions. All I am saying is you need to leave him be. Maybe in the future he will come back to you. You need to hear things from all aspects and I truly hope it helps you. I am glad that you are seeing somebody to work through how this effects you. I am thankful for that. I am glad you will never give up but for now it is best to let him be. I think in my personally opinion once you do that. Later down the road, once your son experiences life on his own. He will eventually come around.

As far as answering from past experiences or relationships that haunt the individual. Or that it effects us in how we interpret others writings. I think that is true. Your right on the money and I admit that to be true. We all have personal experiences that effect our advice and our experience. Just like everybody else on this thread has talked about their advice according to their own experiences.

I hope I did not hijack this thread and thank you for posting and appreciate your thoughts.

Joe

To Jake2008-

My last message was directed to jesushelper76 but I don't think that the salutation was picked up.

I just wanted to again thank you for your insight. One of the things I've been trying to grapple with is what to do if and when he eventually makes his way back.

I am so angry at him for the hurt he is causing but love him more than words can say. I feel stuck in a quagmire and don't see an action I could live with. I don't want to subject myself to his going and coming. And I don't want to subject myself to not having a son in my life either.

I want to do what's best for him. At the same time I don't want to do what puts me back in a position of being treated so badly. The thought of turning my back on him is a killer. The thought of letting him back in my life is a killer.

I'm really at a loss.

Understandable.

Those boundaries are not always cut and dried.

I think it's more likely than not that he will come back home at some point. He should know ahead of time, that you won't accept him living in your home, but you will be available to him to help him if you can, with advice, and advice only. And only when it is convenient to you.

It's important to let him know that you will be there for him, but the terms and conditions have changed. He can no longer demand that you attending counselling etc. so that you can have the pleasure of his company!

This is a win win. He will know that when the spaghetti hits the fan in his life, that he can't just pack a bag and head back to mom's. He'll be forced to deal with his own situation without a ready supply of food, shelter, clothing, guidance. And, if he needs you, you will be there for him, but on your terms once again, not his.

That doesn't make you any less of a mother, person, human being. Loving someone comes with boundaries. Without a plan in place on your end, you will be unprepared when he does contact you, and by then it will be too late. He needs to know what your expectations of him are, not the other way around, now.

Protect yourself emotionally. Stay strong, and realize this is really no different than any other consequence you have taught him at any point during his life. Don't negotiate, and be prepared to stop him when he begins to blame you for the situation he is in, because he will likely get angry if you aren't soaking up the guilt he's putting back on your shoulders.

You aren't turning your back on him, you aren't taking love away, and you are, as you've always been, a good mother to him. You just need to separate yourself from his problems, to the extent that he knows he cannot walk all over you. You need the peace of mind knowing that you can change the relationship, and not stop loving him, yet not be subjected to his cruelty.

That is love, isn't it? It's all about balance, and right now, the pendulum is swinging in his favour. Let him know that you have drawn a line in the sand, and it won't be crossed. I doubt that that will be a surprise to him.

It might help to write out what you expect from him, and what he can expect from you. Literally, a list. Take the emotion out so he doesn't play on that, and very politely send him an email, outlining how your relationship is going to be. Your call, not his. Then stick to it.

Don't underestimate that he loves you very much. He does not show it, obviously, but I would bet both my left feet that he does love you. Maybe the structure you present to him will be beneficial, as he may very well think about how he behaves as affecting other people in his life as well.

You don't owe any apologies, explanations, or compromises. You aren't asking anything of him that he shouldn't already know, and if he doesn't, he should. As long as you remain in a place where you are unsure of yourself, you will be subjected to this torture.

To Jake2008-


. One of the things I've been trying to grapple with is what to do if and when he eventually makes his way back.

I

I'm really at a loss.

I have often thought if/when my son was to come back that first off I wouldn't allow him to just come into the home because I always told him this is YOUR home,so I wouldn't let him just come back make himself comfortable,raid the fridge etc etc I would meet with him in a neutral place i.e. a restaurant or something and we would sit and talk.Kind of like when your dating we would slowly build the relationship back up.. and I pray it happens

I like that idea Zip. Arrange to meet at a restaurant. Sharing conversation over a nice meal in public will likely be good for both.

There are something's that trouble me about the poster hopeless mom.
It seems that you really want to make things better yet you call your son a parasite.and from your replies I feel like you still harbour resentment towards his father,so these are issues you need to deal with while your "waiting" to restore your relationship with your son

To Zippit:

It is difficult to feel anything but resentment toward a man who lived out of my pocket for so many years by his non support and diminshed the quality of life for my child and myself. The financial, moral and emotional support that he failed to provide my son had to come from somewhere. It came from me or simply wasn't there for him.

He created a terrible financial bind that sometimes meant working at 5 jobs (no kidding) at once to keep my son in private school, on medication and well fed. It was difficult to get the type of mental health intervention that could have helped him or me at the time. I did the best I could. My son is both ADHD and asthmatic. His medical bills were astronomical.

With his father's help, he could have had better. With his father's help, he may not have been an oppositional defiant kid who transitioned into the hostile young man he's become.

Without his father's abandonment, he would likely not be using aboandonment as a tool. It would simply not be in his portfolio of acceptable behaviors.

His father is simply grossly irresponsible and lives off people. If you expect something from him, he feigns anger so he can throw up a smoke screen to duck out on his responsibilities. It is amazing that a child who grew up without him is so much like him. It is a strong testament for the case of nature over nurture!

I try to dismiss my negative thoughts toward him. He is who he is. I survived. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger. I care nothing of him. I care a great deal about how his neglect distorted my son's development. As I deal with the impact of the distortion he caused, it is very difficult to not harbor resentment.

To Jake2008

I'd love to be able to communicate exactly what you phrased to him. You are absolutely on the money. The problem is, I have no idea whether he will read an email I send him. He told me he won't. I've written to him and he does not respond.

When I reach out to communicate to him, I speak to a painful abyss.

It just seem to me that you would have gotten over it more by now,it can't be healthy to still have such strong animosity towards the father.
I hope you haven't showed this to your son,and regardless he must feel the resentment coming from you.
Don't get me wrong,my wife and I were talking earlier and it's like these kids only think of themselves and unless you'r exactly what they need or want they have no use for you.In your case I would look for the dad and sons relationship to hit a snag

I made several overtures to bury the hatchet with his Dad. I sent a letter to him, when he returned letting him know how glad I was that he was back in his son's life.

I tried, more than once.

No response.

Three years ago my son called me one morning at about 6:30 to come and get him because his apartment had incinerated.

I was standing with him on the city sidewalk. He was half naked and covered from head to toe in soot. All his possessions had gone up in smoke and he was lucky to be alive... WITHOUT the shirt on his back. His father called.

You think the man would come together to the table to work out a plan to help his son... of course not. That would mean that his son would finally get to see his parents get along for his benefit and be on the same page to help him.

He's far more interested in perpetuating the myth that I am the cause of his absence since he hates me so much and can't stand speaking to me or sitting in the same room with me.

That's the excuse he gives my son for disappearing from his life, no support, no birthday cards, no letters.

Those, by the way, are the very same words my son used, when he told me he would never speak to me again... he hates me so much it makes him sick to sit in the same room with me, much less talk to me. He added he never wants to see me again... no phone, no text, no emails.

If that is what he wants. You need to let him have that. You show resentment towards your son and his father for a lot of things. In my experience as well, whether the mother realizes it or not. Sometimes the disgust or distrust that was caused by the father is brought onto the son as well.

You keep going on about the past and the medical bills and everything that you did for him. Almost if you expect something in return. All you have to do as a parent is teach them and then let them go to live his own life without any interference.

He is setting his boundaries with you and rather you like it or not. You need to respect them or the problem will just get worse.

You also go on about how he was asthmatic and ADHD and so on. Well I was brought up without my real father in the picture I had similar medical problems (severe asthma). Yes it does cost a lot of money that that is what happens when you raise children. Do I want that to be held over my head all the time like your doing with your son?

The whole point of having children is doing our best to raise them so they can be independent and live life out in the real world on there own, and live their own life.

Now you need to do the same and stop holding on to all this stuff from the past. You need to move past it already because your resentment is big. It will only continue to hurt yourself and possible future relationship with your son.

For the most part jesushlper said what I'm trying to say to you,however I want you to see the lighter side of it that time will tell,
Anotherwords a grown ex-husband saying he can't stand to be in the same room as you is completely different than a ignorant young man saying that to his mother
Don't LUMP THEM TOGETHER
And in the mean time take care of YOU
I suspect you have voiced your feeling about your ex to your son and that is wrong!
You have no business writing a letter to the dad let that go,of course he ignored it.
Your job isn't to reconcile with the father it is to be the best mom you can be.your struggles and monies and time that went into your son are behind you now and yes you want the reward of at least being in his life but that is going to be his choice.I can write pages of ways I messed up with my son and ways I will change it when we get back together forget about the past and move on to
What's NEXT?

His father continues to fan the flame. He has never stopped. My son throws his father's words in my face, exactly as they have come out of his mouth.

He also throws his father's money and lifestyle in my face. His father is very charismatic and lives flamboyantly. My son berates me for struggling and lauds his father for being wealthy.

Parents are supposed to put their differences aside for the best interest of their children. My letter to his father was an offer and an invitation to do so. It was not only the right thing to do, it was my responsibility to do so when he returned and began embroiling my son in his cover-up.

When a father disappears, the child goes on living. A small child thinks he is the cause of his disappearance and it effects his entire sense of self and security. If you think an abandoned child can be raised without a reality discussion about his father's behavior toward him, you're mistaken. My discussion with my son as he was growing was not that his daddy was a bad man. He needed to know that his daddy was a person who had a problem accepting his responsibilities in order to be assured that HE had no part in making Daddy go away.

His father returned my attempt not to bad mouth him into his absence being all my fault. And my son, who desperately wants a father, accepted it.

His father did the worst possible thing he could have done to his child, save stick a knife through his heart. Upon his return, and continuing right up to today, he does the worst possible thing he can do by blaming me for his horrendous treatment of the past instead of taking responsibility for his behavior.

The problems I have with my son are decidedly because of the abandonment issues he has. Were it not for his father's actions, abandonment would not be an acceptable behavior for him. Running away when he has a dispute with someone would likely not be how he handles personal interaction.

As to shouldering the burdens of your child's upbringing per jesushlpr, yes, parents are expected to do their part. Parents, however, are not expected to do the other parent's part. My son's father is not a poor man. He wasn't sick. He wasn't incapacitated. He wasn't dead. He was cruel.

He dumped the entire financial, moral, social, educational, medical and familial development of our child on my shoulders. My son does not owe me any thanks for what I did for him. He was a child. He had no part in his father's wrong doing. He does not see how the hole his father left in his life affects him. I see it.

I see that he doesn't have the familial bond that having 2 parents and an extended family creates. I see the lack of maturity that results from having to close his eyes to the longing he had for his father's love. I see the permanent damage his father's absence had to my pocket and my relationship with my son because I was his sole support and his sole disciplinarian... the good parent, the bad parent, the loved parent, the hated parent, all of it, rolled into one.

Try for a moment to think about NEVER being able to escape from the unwanted behavior of your child because there is NO adult other than yourself, ever, when he acts up. Multiply that exponentially by 12 for an ADHD child. Consider for a moment the negative impact it has on a child that the parent can't walk away as they would be able to if 2parents were providing care. There could be NO separation, no opportunity to "chill". My son learned to be a bully. He is bullying me now in the most horrific and painful way.

My son was emotionally and financially crippled because of the absence of a father in his life. Because of his learning deficits, he was a child who particularly needed the structure of having a dad. He was a very difficult child for me to raise single handedly. It was not necessary. His father made it necessary.

I was financially crippled by his father who spent a lifetime driving fancy cars, globe hopping, dining at fabulous restaurants and wearing only couture clothing. He wasn't born here in the US. He had no US address. I could spend a king's ransom on locating a man who didn't want to be located and dragging him back to his son's life, or I could put my shoulder to the lever and support my son. His first ex-wife with 2 children interacted with him. He kidnapped her children and took them to Argentina. I would have absolutely no way of getting my child back if he had done the same to me.

The harm he inflicts is ongoing. He is disrespectful and unappreciative, and yes, HE owes me appreciation for picking up HIS share of the responsibility all those years.

And by the way, Zippit... I'm not "waiting" to restore the relationship with my son. I have a relationship with him right now... a very bad one.

I conveyed the information in my messages in order to see if I could gain insight that could make it better.

I don't hold my son responsible or accountable for his father's bad acts.

I hold my son's father responsible for his and I hold my son responsible for his own. I recognize, however, that his father is influencing his actions.

You need to come to terms with the fact that his father didn't abandoned you or him in your original post you say both we separated,and later he abandoned.what was your part in this separation? You can't fault the father for going on and making a life for himself,as far as support its your and them states job to keep track of him his earnings and to make sure he's paying his share,now I'm not saying his actions are right a good man would have stepped to the plate,kept up visits etc.This could have been his plan to set back and wait for when the boy got older and then take it up from there,give them they're time see how it turns out.

Humorous!

I was being tactful when I called it a separation.

He' was a foreigner. He was abusive. He quit his job. He globe hopped with no address.

In my 4th month of pregnancy, he threw me down a flight of stairs. The police took him out. It was the third time. We'd done conseling. I had to concern myself with the welfare of my child.

In my 9th month of pregnancy, there was a hearing. I was issued an order of protection. He was barred from coming home.

He jetted around the world doing deals. He didn't report taxes. He didn't produce any income record to the courts. I I couldn't locate
Him to finalize our divorce until 17 years later.
The courts awarded me $30 per week as "temporary" support without records. (Doesn't even pay for diapers and certainly doesn't pay to hire a detective to go after him when you need all your money to take care of your child.) He'd kidnapped his other kids while I was pregnant. Messing with him was decidedly not a good idea.

, I have had extreme depression over this circumstance and am attempting to deal with it as I can.

.

This has to be fixed before any progress can be made

I suppose if you look at this and think that had you stayed with your husband, he would have made your life a living hell too. And likely your son would have been even worse, without his father participating in a meaningful way.

You still would have been on the hook likely, for most of what you have gone through with your son. The major decisions as to his care, and the primary person of his anger. I doubt that all of you under one roof, would have meant that he would not have turned out the same regardless.

That is something to consider. Your ex husband is who he is, and his attitude and arrogance would likely have made your job that much harder if he were in the picture.

I accept all that you have said of your past, and your current relationship with your son as true. I don't doubt that events happened as they did.

What I see here though, is that your son now, is also who he is. There is no changing him, he's a man, just like his father, and there was no changing his father either. Your son is 28, and can do and say as he likes. That he chooses to have no regard for you, or consideration for all that you have done, is now set in concrete. It isn't going to change.

He is selfish and uncaring. That is who he is, or chooses to be. It works for him for whatever reason, and even if he is able to modify how he thinks and behaves toward you and others, nothing can erase the past, and heal this torment you still go through.

It would never be enough is my point. Your own peace of mind is not going to come from the satisfaction of having your feelings validated by either one of them.

This situation is right up front and centre of your life, and this is not healthy for you. To keep re-living the past and simmering about it, does not free you, it binds you. While you go about your day to day living, waiting for some resolve that will likely never come, you are not living a full and happy life.

That he is now 28, and living his own life, you must learn how to live yours, without him. I know it is easy to say for me, to advise you, and I don't mean to sound trite, but it is time to find ways to get beyond this, and let the dust settle in some part of your brain, tucked away in an imaginary file cabinet somewhere.

The time you spend allowing this to be so central in your life, is time you are wasting.

Humorous!!

I was being tactful when I called it a separation.

He' was a foreigner. He was abusive. He quit his job. He globe hopped with no address.

In my 4th month of pregnancy, he threw me down a flight of stairs. The police took him out. It was the third time. We'd done conseling. I had to concern myself with the welfare of my child.

In my 9th month of pregnancy, there was a hearing. I was issued an order of protection. He was barred from coming home.

He jetted around the world doing deals. He didn't report taxes. He didn't produce any income record to the courts. I I couldn't locate
him to finalize our divorce until 17 years later.
The courts awarded me $30 per wk as "temporary" support without records. (Doesn't even pay for diapers and certainly doesn't pay to hire a detective to go after him when you need all your money to take care of your child.) He'd kidnapped his other kids while I was pregnant. Messing with him was decidedly not a good idea.

It sounds to me that your REAL issues surround your son's father.

I know you've given me great advice Jake2008.

Some days I'm good at focusing on my blessings and some days it's harder. I'm hoping that the good days will begin outnumbering the painful ones.

He's my son, he's my family. It's hard. I'm trying.

If your loved one dies, you somehow reconcile the loss and move on. Their life is over and you can store your caring in a special place where their memory stops being painful and foremost in your thoughts.

Having a loved one perpetrate day after day of hatred, the dawn of each day is the continuance of renewed pain. It's another day he doesn't call, doesn't write, doesn't reach out. I can't imagine losing the pain unless I lose my love for him. I haven't a clue how to do that.

I do understand. It is greiving. Grieving the loss of hopes and dreams, and a relationship that will likely never materialize.

Grieving everything associated with those losses. 28 years' history to end, is a huge, unfathomable result for most people to understand.

Maybe it's more of coming to terms with what is, instead of what should have been. Embracing the good years, even though they were hard and a struggle, and the victories that you did have. Had you not raised your son with so much love, he would not have likely gained at least some independence, and the ability to make his own choices now.

I think to teach our children even that much, is a job well done.

I don't know what to tell you to make you feel better. Your pain comes through loud and clear. I hope that as time goes on, your son comes around a bit, and you can focus on the good and positive things you had in your relationship in the early years. You could never have predicted this outcome, and you are not responsible for it.

Good luck hopeless mom.

Well I'm not sure if you haven't completely blocked me out,I hope not and didn't mean for it to go that way.
Like I said I'm going through almost the same thing.These kids are just very self centered both your son and mine have girlfriends involved,for me I know if they were to break up it would change everything I don't want that because he's happy with her

You can't loose the pain but you can overcome some of the pain by taking care of you.It is tough.
And I hope you don't feel like I hy-jacked your post and I know I'm kind of a nuisance but I'm fallowing this post closely and its helping me with what I'm going through and I thank you for that.
And its so hard for me to read and not in put but I will try

Jake2008- I so appreciate your support. Just knowing that another person understands is a blessing! I know you can't fix this. If I can help you in your struggle, I'd be happy to try.

Zippit- I didn't spell out the entire saga of what I went through with my son's dad because, quite frankly, if it weren't affecting my relationship with my son at the moment, I simply wouldn't give a damn.

I stopped caring about how he saw the world along time ago and dealing with him really wasn't what I was attempting to get out of this conversation.

I understand you are well intentioned and that you don't have all the facts. Had I not been looking for input, I would not have asked. Your comments have been helpful and I appreciate them.

Like you, I believe my son having a girlfriend could be a factor in this separation. His last girlfriend was someone he had known, and I had known, all his life. They had gone to nursery school together. There was no way he could have said anything to her that would engender negative feelings toward me. She would have known it not to be true.

The young lady he is currently seeing has no history with me. She only knows what my son has told her about me and so he has the liberty of characterizing himself and me as whatever he choses. It seems that having a mom, for some sons, feels like dependency. He wants to be independent and strong in her eyes. I don't blame him for that. I don't blame him for not coming around. I don't blame him for not wanting to include me... although he did, frequently... and not because I insisted or imposed. In fact, the day he exploded at me, for the last time, he was calling to invite me for lunch.

The hard part is the hatred with which he has separated himself. I'm told that it's what some kids do. I'm also told that sometimes the closer they feel to you, the more they need to desacrate the bridge to you in order to assure themselves that they can't return so they can convince themselves they are on their own.

It's funny how as children independence is so important and as adults we begin to recognize that the only thing that really matters is the love and caring and interdependence of family and friends.

This is the first time my son has earned enough money to actually live on his own without help. Now that he can, he's grappling with what place does "Mom" have in his life. It hurts to know that the choice he has made is that I was only useful to him because I helped him. Love, caring, concern are simply not part of his portfolio of feelings. Knowing his father, I wonder whether being totally self-centered is indeed an inherited trait. He didn't see me live that way.

I can look back and wish I had done more to try to overcome his lack of empathy for people. It didn't spring up overnight. He's always been this way.

I see kids being difficult with their parents and want to step in and say, "make sure to take him to a soup kitchen to help out so he gets a sense of pride from goodness and giving back. Help him know and appreciates how blessed he is."

I thought I had made that effort with my son. I see that I didn't do it enough to make a difference.

I know there is nothing further I can do to mold my son's character and I look positively at the fact that he can stand up on his own two feet and be independent. Even if he doesn't appreciate the efforts it took to make him that way, I know in my heart it was my doing.

I can be altruistic right now because the Zoloft is kicking in! Thank God for medication! I resisted taking it for a time because I was damned if I was going to let my son's behavior put me on drugs. It's helped, however, and if you're very upset over your situation with your son, it may be worth your considering. Without the medication, I can't think about my son without crying. I am able to not get overwhelmed when I'm sured up by the tiny little pill.

The hard part is the hatred with which he has separated himself. I'm told that it's what some kids do. I'm also told that sometimes the closer they feel to you, the more they need to desacrate the bridge to you in order to assure themselves that they can't return so they can convince themselves they are on their own.

I can look back and wish I had done more to try to overcome his lack of empathy for people. It didn't spring up overnight. He's always been this way.

I see kids being difficult with their parents and want to step in and say, "make sure to take him to a soup kitchen to help out so he gets a sense of pride from goodness and giving back. Help him know and appreciates how blessed he is."

I thought I had made that effort with my son. I see that I didn't do it enough to make a difference.

I know there is nothing further I can do to mold my son's character and I look positively at the fact that he can stand up on his own two feet and be independent. Even if he doesn't appreciate the efforts it took to make him that way, I know in my heart it was my doing.


There are a lot of posts similar to yours about kids basically disowning their mom or parents when they get in their 20's and revise history in their head and to anybody who will listen to make mom and/or dad look horrible. I hear a lot of adults even older talk about how they were phsyically abused with broken arms and all by mom or dad and half the time I don't believe them.
The fact is that you could have done every single thing right and even moved mountains for him but he doesn't get it he is looking at things from some sort of self centered perspective where he feels you are the villain and he is the victim.
Only time and him coming to his senses can change this.

IF he ever does come to you to ask for help like borrowing money tell him that you two have to talk things out in a mature way before you even consider thinking about helping him out. If you just help him out he will only be there in your life long enough for his hand to be out and then bye-bye.

Good advice! I've been concerned with an appropriate response to him. That's a very viable one.

And I appreciate your comment about vilification. According to my son, I'm a wicked detestable villain! When he was young, he fell on his roller blades and bumped his head. In his mind, that was a concussion, and somehow, my fault!

The only other injury he sustained in his entire life occurred when he was intoxicated and fell off a bar stool, splitting his head open!

You know how you hear of strange coincidences of connectivity between loved ones... I was in Alaska on vacation. My thoughts turned to my son and I called him just as the doctor was stitching him up.

I'm sure if I hadn't been thousands of miles away on vacation at the time, it would have been my doing as well! (LOL!)

Thanks!

[QUOTE=Hopeless Mom;1858409]Jake2008- I so appreciate your support. Just knowing that another person understands is a blessing! I know you can't fix this. If I can help you in your struggle, I'd be happy to try.

Thank you. I do know what you are going through, as I reached the same crossroads a short time ago. It was the most difficult thing I have ever done in my life, to accept that, there will be no further change, and hope for one no longer exists.

To fight the good fight so to speak, and move mountains out of the way to have and see progress was not a wasted battle, because what I have now is better than it would have been, had I not done what I had to do.

Sorry to talk in circles, but it is nearing that place for you now, and I think taking that personal inventory of what you've done to raise your son, against what can no longer be, as the result of all that hard work, is really, really difficult to accept.

But, you'll get there, and feel a little comfort in knowing that you can let go of the guilt, which women seem to have for their children in super sized doses! I know I sure did.

And you have already helped me. By offering what I know to be the truth to you, from my own experiences, I was forced to think about history between my daughter and myself, and I didn't break down. And, I thank you for that.

I joined this site last night and wrote a huge post on thei thread which never appeared. H mum and Jake I am in exactly the same position.

But when I look baldly at the facts, of the three sons this eldest 28 year old who is 'recreating me' as a total villain was always tricky and hard work 'special' ! Rewarding and fun and also periodically hell.

There are people - like my x husband who through a relationship never really forgive anything , just build up a bag full of grudges from when you may not have got it quite right. At the same time they have no bag full of joys at the things you did which were wonderful.

Your posts have been so very helpful.

We did our very best. Perhaps they would be serial killers or burglars if we hadn't. At least they are independent adults - with us as scapegoats for every inadequacy or fear the ouside world gives them. Not a role we need.

At base I am broken hearted about it. All this talk about apron strings etc on the thread is just not relevant to this problem. It is much deeper and more disrespectful and violating than that. I never wanted a Liberace! The other two I don't see much of because they are busy making their own lives . I'm proud of that. But when they contact me - which they do regualrly, they are loving and respectful.

I think because my eldest has had problems he is now perhaps a bit ashamed of having needed me so much at times in the past, but his way of dealing with that is disgraceful. I have only ever hleped him when he has asked - never smothered or interfered . It's not in my nature to do so.

No its wrong , utterly heartbreaking and rather obscene. But we did our best. And though even in their kindness I think a lot of people on this thread don't fully understand , their words are still correct. We just have to put them away now.

Others don't know how final that is likely to be given their selfish detatchment and it is no easy decision. We know it will probably be for ever.
In their insulting violence they are the ones not letting go. We have to cut that away and it will take huge courage because I am quite sure mine won't come back in any shape or form. If anyone knows him I do.

My husband is a selfish detached man who has let me go afte 28 years without a backward glance. My son has half of his genes and that for a role model The outlook is poor.

But for me... and thank you so much for sharing your grief. It has to stop. I can take no more humiliation and must face blame and blanket rejection from a human bieng I gave life to and unconditionally gave my life to. My conscience is clear.. his won't be.

It is the death of hope which is hard to face. To call it cutting the apron strings is just insulting. We did that years ago. It is the end of a sacred human relationship and of the hope of normal civilised behaviour from one whose love and respect should be a law of nature. But I am facing it rather than be humiliated any longer.

I too live alone with a chronic medical condition and full time work. BUT there are so many better things to do out there than grieve over a lost cause.

If he comes back? No I will never give him money or things again. He took me for a total ride before dumping me this year. Then accused me angrily of helping him too much and is now sponging off his father whom he has sworn hatred to this last 4 years. If he requires anything from me in he future I will not have it available I will be the kindly nodding smiling granny figure and keep my cards to my chest.

He has sacrificed the right to any of the adult and trusting relationship I have with the other two. I could never trust him again. This is the second time he has vilifired and rejcted me in 10 years . I have to learn. It is so over. There is a world out here and realistically my kids are no longer the centre of it no matter what. I am not being shafted and slandered into the bargain.

We made a very good polyester purse out of a sows ear. The very best we could do with what we were served up with. Time to let go and stop hurting.

Love Eglantine

That was very well written.

How true that eventually you need to see the 'child' as a grown up person, responsible for their own lives, regardless of what the life they choose is.

I know myself that while Doctors and Pyschiatrists and lawyers and all the other third parties were involved, it was far from a simple 'cutting the apron strings', although how I wished it would have been that simple.

Even with all that makes that person who she is, there is still no less love in your heart for them, it really was just seeing that the end of the road branched off and decisions had to be made.

A life is too short not to live it.

Good call Jake

Dear Eg-

Well said!

Unfortunately getting past rejection by the hand of your own child is at best a roller coaster ride. I have days of "who cares"... he's an adult and not the center of my life, and in an instant what I think is a balanced perspectve can be trigered into grief by a child playing in the park who reminds me of him, or by passing a place where we had a fond memory.

I simply try not to think about it and try to find joy in other parts of my life. Not easy to do when arthritis impedes the sports activities I enjoy and because I have no family other than my son.

Since you have other children, there may be a sense of loss he'll feel at not participating in family activities like the holidays. Unfortunately, while he may want to be present in your life again because he may feel he is missing out, his attitude is likely not to change.

I go from "make the effort to communicate because he's my child and how can I give up on him" to "leave him alone, and good riddance." I am totally at a loss for which way is the right way. I've kind of resolved that whatever I do is the right way or the wrong way because there are positives and negatives to be said for both. I can only pray that god forgives me if I'm doing it wrong, because I surely don't have the answer.

I just keep trying to reassure myself that I did the best I knew how. If he can't feel my love in that, or can't feel love and respect for me, there is simply nothing I can do about it. It's the most painful thing I have ever faced.

I wish you abundant good luck in coming to peace with your situation.

H Mom

I think we all have those days.
I know I do.
My son who is the nearest to me geographically will think I don't care about him when I really do. He seems to think I give the others attention when actually it is that I hardly ever get to see them and never know quite when I will see them again.
Then often when I do see them I feel so numb because it hurts remembering they were the one that was learning to ride a tricycle and now it is the grandbaby on the tricycle.
Some days I just can't function because I am so not use to hearing them.
I have the extremes too. One minute feeling I need to hear them the next feeling hopeless and like what's the use.
The only comfort I have sometimes is that they ALL turned out to be great kids.

If it's any consolation to you, I'm sure Eg, Jake and myself would give our right arms to be in your circumstance!

You have children who have not rejected you full of hatred and severed you from their lives.

Your children have moved on. That was the way you intended it, wasn't it? I'm sure you did everything you could to enable them to be independent, and now they are. It's not the absence that is so painful to Eg, Jake and I, (and ladies please forgive me if I'm assuming too much), it's the loss of love that our children are conveying to us.

Lead a joyous life. Find the activities that inspire you, now that you no longer have your time taken up by your family's needs. You've done the job of parenting well. You have children who despite their absence, care about you and your welfare. The one who lives near you still feels connected with you or he woud not be envious of your concern for the others. The rest are living productive lives and you still have a bond with each of them. You are very lucky.

H Mom

Yeah I agree. I am just saying that the mere fact that kids do grow up and move out can be hard enough and then for them to turn on you must be 100 times harder.

No one promised me a rose garden but they didn't tell me I'd have to sleep on a bed of thorns! :-)

I'm trying to dust it with powder so I can appreciate the blooms once again!

Thanks for your encouragment.

Dear Eg-

Well said!

Unfortunately getting past rejection by the hand of your own child is at best a roller coaster ride. I have days of "who cares"....he's an adult and not the center of my life, and in an instant what I think is a balanced perspectve can be trigered into grief by a child playing in the park who reminds me of him, or by passing a place where we had a fond memory.




Hopeless mom this is what I struggle with the most.I can be "BALANCED" and think I'm glad he's doing this and he's an adult etc etc. then it all goes out the window the next.

This was the latest,Saturday I was driving with my wife and we see a car on the side of the road for sell that looks like my sons so jokingly we said hey look he's selling his car at the same time I look in my left hand door mirror and my son is coming right by me no wave nothing than he just speed up to not get caught at the light

My wife isn't his mom but she's done so much for him and she is just a innocent victim of his and mine conflict its another issue I have to live with

Dear Eg-

Well said!

Unfortunately getting past rejection by the hand of your own child is at best a roller coaster ride. I have days of "who cares"....he's an adult and not the center of my life, and in an instant what I think is a balanced perspectve can be trigered into grief by a child playing in the park who reminds me of him, or by passing a place where we had a fond memory.

I simply try not to think about it and try to find joy in other parts of my life. Not easy to do when arthritis impedes the sports activities I enjoy and because I have no family other than my son.

Since you have other children, there may be a sense of loss he'll feel at not participating in family activities like the holidays. Unfortunately, while he may want to be present in your life again because he may feel he is missing out, his attitude is likely not to change.

I go from "make the effort to communicate because he's my child and how can I give up on him" to "leave him alone, and good riddance." I am totally at a loss for which way is the right way. I've kinda resolved that whatever I do is the right way or the wrong way because there are positives and negatives to be said for both. I can only pray that god forgives me if I'm doing it wrong, because I surely don't have the answer.

I just keep trying to reassure myself that I did the best I knew how. If he can't feel my love in that, or can't feel love and respect for me, there is simply nothing I can do about it. It's the most painful thing I have ever faced.

I wish you abundant good luck in coming to peace with your situation.

H Mom


Thanks H Mom You said it all there - except that a another exquisite complication here re the son we have talked about is that he is now taking further' regenge: ( for what I still do not know) on me by trying to manipulate the other members of the familhy. He has seriously annoyed my other 2 sons by campaigning against me me... but I don't know - some of it will reach its mark. It all hurts in any case. He also is now sponging from my X husband having spent 3 years swearing his undying hatred of him, I loathe my X but would never try to prevent his sons form having a relationship with him. However thte hypocrisy of this just cheeses me off. He took me apart 2 months ago for having 'spoilt him. 'given him too much opportunity and things' Havng trashed me he turns to his father after 2 years estrangement and gets a £500 camera out of him by way of saying hello. I do wonder what I have spawned here!

Is your son infuenced by a psycho girlfriend as mine seems to be? He seems to have become her crazy mouthpiece no more !

I am newly divorced , financially compromised and working every hour god sends aged 59... like I need this!! I am making new friends having had to abandon my previous community thanks to my husband's slanders.. . like I said before - we are dealing with a mix of genes here... and negative male role models no matter how much unconditional love we piled in as compensation

My best wishes to you for strength in this - I so understand your dilemma. I guess I am experimenting with a compormise between the two things you consider Druing his now rare phonecalls I just listen and do not get involved. I wish him well and say that I look forward to the next news form him. I don't break off with him. I do not speak my hurt and anger . When /if he calls me... I respond nicely but for the foreseable future he will get nothing more from me... just to then have abause piled on me. I refuse to confront him - hw will just cash in on this. But passively, if he tries to get anything else out of me if he wheedles back onto better terms with me... H Mom I just 'won't have it' even if I have.

My heart goes out to you... in this weird day and age so much has not turned out as those of our generation had hoped. And yes I weep over those tricicles. Hold the good memories and know you are a good mum and always will be. Love is never lost.

Love Eglantine

I don't know if I can give you any "suggestions" or not. Your son had a rough childhood, beset with physical and emotional issues ; through no fault of his own and, despite what he and his father may claim, certainly through no fault of your own. Just as you didn't cause his problems, I doubt that you can do anything towards helping them now. You say he's seeing a psychiatrist. I'm sure a lot of people would suggest that in a case like this. Whether that'll help or not, nobody can really predict. In order for it to help I think that he'd have to be willing to face his issues but it sounds like he's in denial right now. So right now I think that you just have to accept things as they are, painful though it may be. Time may have a way of making things right so keep the faith and rest knowing that you did right by him as his mother, regardless of what he and his father may think.

I know coming from a divorced home as I was growing up I went through mixed emotions for both parents I went from worshipping my Dad to thinking he was a complete waste of space back to thinking maybe he knows a thing or two same with mom going from this is all her fault I see why Dad left her to this poor woman she went through so much and I'm 43 they split up when I was 8 so I'm thinking that's just the vicious cycle of divorce blame,denial,acceptance and we never really know which one our kids are in at any particular moment all we can do is listen<if they give us a opportunity> and continue to be the best person WE can be,I haven't followed through yet but I would like to help a single mother. Or mentor a boy from a broken family , or do some volunteering to help me makes since of this and to feel better about it.one thing for sure I have NO control over my sons thinking about ME.

Eg-

I hear your pain. You're correct in your consideration of the "genes" that comprise his character. It is abundantly painful to have to face the unfullfillment of our character expectations for our children. Yours seems to have mastered manipulation along the way. I doubt that you're the only person who sees it.

Divorce is an unfortuante circumstance for families because it often divides loyalties, despite the efforts one party or the other takes to maintain nuetrality with their children. It takes the conscious effort of both parents to prevent malignment. Your son is old enough and independent enough to use the rift between you and your ex to his advantage... which he could be seeing as material gain vs an emotional connection. His "parental unit" has splintered and he is reacting by playing the sides. If he can get a rise out of you with his behavior, he can pay you back for disturbing his peace. After all, in his "me" centered universe, you should have stayed in your failed marriage for his personal comfort.

If I were in your shoes, I'd send him a letter and it would say something like the following:

Dear Son,

I'm writing to you because I see by your recent behavior toward me that you are having a problem with your father and my divorce. I want you to know that I am entitled to a happy life and I was not achieving it by remaining with your father. He and I see life differently. That doesn't make him bad and it doesn't make me bad. It just makes it difficult for us to get along. You, _____ and ______ were exposed to our unhappiness with each other and for its effect on you, and for any part in your pain that I had, I am deeply sorry.

I want you to know that I am here for you and when you can behave in a respectful and loving way toward me, I am happy to be around you. I will never stop loving you, but you are now at an age where you are becoming an adult. You don't have the same need for my presence in your life that you had when you were younger, so I no longer have to put up with bad behavior from you.

I intend to live my life in the most productive, happiest fashion possible, just as I expect you wish for yourself. If you would like to be a contributing supportive part of that, I am happy to hear from you. If you do not wish to be, I will miss you dearly, but my life will not change.

I would love to have the enrichment of your love, presence and caring in my life. If you are unable to do so, I will try to understand. It is not healthy for our relationship; however, for me to put up with your criticism and disrespect.

You need to "mean it" when you send it!

S_C:

Thanks for your supportive words!

Zip-

When my son was young I tried to get a "big brother" to mentor him. Having no family in the area made it especially difficult for him to grow up without a Dad. If he'd had a male figure to bond with, perhaps things would be different. I'd certainly encourage you to follow-through on filling that void for a child. What a great difference you could make in his life!

Hiya Jake!

I hope you're weathering the storm! Has there been any improvement?

I wrote this poem today and I'm wondering what you think about sending it to him. I truly value your insight and appreciate your taking the time to read it.

Huge thanks!
HM

Beware of the child who learns to despise
Who sees the world through self-absorbed eyes
Who fails to acknowledge a difficult task
Driving love with a vengeance, out of his past.

A son with no comfort, no caring, concern
Who fails to provide, 'less there's a return.
For love for love's sake has no meaning to him
Only give when you take. What a concept- how grim.

A son who decries “who needs you”, beyond lost-
He's clueless, unloving, defiling the cost.
Ripping to shreds the bond that you treasure
The loving a mother feels, now and forever.

We don't get to simply give up when you're cruel
We don't stop our love when you act like a fool.
Spurning a mother causes such wretched pain
A merciless act- how selfish, how vain.

We all suffer rifts, death and breaks in our life.
The death of a friend, divorced husband or wife.
The death of a parent is a break with the past.
We grow up expecting- we know they won't last.

A break with a child is the end of a future.
Of family, comfort, of warmth and of nurture.
Of all of the elements of joy family brings
A rift is a tragedy, quashing the dream.

A son makes his family, his life carries on.
A mother's family ceases by the loss of that son.
Both by death or by rift, the hurt is the same,
But by “rift” is a son who torments to gain.

No manner of therapy, pills, medication
Ever replaces the love and affection
A son who's so callous he chooses to act thus,
Betrayal so foul- shakes the foundation of trust.

There are things that are sacred between mother and son
I carried, protected you through sunshine and storm.
I grew you as best as I knew how to do,
If choosing a life, yours or mine, I'd chose you.

Yes, you're independent. Yes, that was the plan.
You didn't like tactics that made you a man.
Perhaps you'll know better when you raise your own.
And I hope he won't toss you aside when he's grown.

So look in the mirror- if you like what you see
Remember you got there by what came from me
And though you don't need me-, that's my doing too-
Remember as I age, my family is you.

Hello helpless,
That is so from the heart,and thought out.
You have again made me cry.
Bless you

I think about you and jake and these kids and what is going on,with you helplessmom I feel for you so much,you see I have my daughter and she visits and my son will visit with her he refuses to pull in my driveway he makes her go to a nieghbor ,but at least I have her to tell me what's going on.my son proubably wishes I didn't have that and was suffering more and worring more.the lates was my daughter told me chris is waiting until he does good so he can show me,hey dad look I'm doing good without your help and I told her its been a year of NC,how much is going to mean to me that he IS doing good after years of not hearing anything.the reason I bring that up is it may be what your boy is doing,if you remember they are about the same age,met a girl and decided they don't need us at all so that might be what the thinking is " i want to give it some time until im doing good than i can show them".
Thanks for the poem and by all means get it to him and only hope it means something to him.

Thanks Zip!

I appreciate your feedback.

Perhaps your daughter could try to convey that Dad misses him and loves him regardless of whether he succeeds. Have you tried writing him a letter to that effect?

Keep the faith!
HM

This is a good op for anyone dealing with this situation
Mother / father son or daughter the pain is there
Hopeless mom has done an excellent job putting the feeling into words

Zippit, thank you. I did miss it.

I too, find much truth in the words of that poem, and can appreciate the pure love you put into it. It must have been very hard to write, and I'm so glad you took the time to do it. It really is heart wrenching.

Hopeless- you are fighting the good fight. I keep thinking that myself on the down days; it has been a rough couple of weeks actually. I've put in a formal complaint about some things I just cannot accept, so a new battle looms. But, the bottom line is the safety and well being of my daughter. Sometimes I just have to shake those cages and bring up the fact that they are dealing with a human being.

I don't know yet what the ultimate conclusion will be, I still have hope where nobody else seems to, maybe I'm right. Time will tell.

We have all been given a full plate that's for sure.

Thanks again Zip, and you Hopeless, if you don't mind, I'm going to copy that poem for a few individuals that might benefit from the wise words.

Can anyone tell me <or us> how you would handle this?
What do you do if he/she all of the sudden shows up at your door?
What do you do if/when you get that call
"hey mom,its me!"
Please!
I wish there was more input from others here
And I'm really disappointed that there isn't.

Zip

Dear Jake-

I hope all works out with your latest battle.

The one consolation that no one can remove from us is the belief that we have done our best. Regardless of how others interpret your actions, I hope following your conscience gets you through!

There's an old saw that "no good deed goes unpunished." I've come to believe that with the increased "entitlement" concepts that have crept into society, the number of people who can recognize or appreciate a moral commitment is shrinking and therefore, the amount of negative backlash one faces grows proportionately.

It's a pity that it comes from our own.

As to the poem, if you think it can help anyone, I'd be honored that you use it.

Zip-

I've been concerned about the same issues you asked about.

If my son were to call my cell, I would likely let it go to voice mail and listen to his message before I would interact with him.

If I lived somewhere he could appear on my front porch, I'd hug him, and ask what he wants. What I would say to him would be totally dependent on what he said.

If he asked for something, I'd tell him I'd think about it and get back to him. I would do so and write him a letter telling him whether I'd go along with his request and why. Between you, me and the lampost, the likelihood of my son getting anything from me except love is very unlikely!

If there wasn't an apology, recognition or commitment in what he had to say, I would know that whatever he needed at the moment, that brought him to my door, was not borne of carring or love.

I can't imagine taking an apology at face value if there were a request attached.

HM

I feel the same in regards to a request
He is real stuborn so I dought it will happen that way I hope it doesn't because he will have to be in serious need I.E. the girlfriend kicks him to the curb,he lives with her family and has put everything into her.
My main goal at that point would be to develop a relationship where he fully understands what he has put me through and I would want to move slowly and make sure it never happens again.
At least once a week I have a dream with him in it,it was my real dream that him and I would work together either in our own company or something else and we did work a large wal-mart landscape job where I was foreman and he worked with me and it was great,I just want him to know I would rather have nothing than to let him bounce in and out at his leisure