My question is this:

At what part in this scenario is the husband unfaithful:

1. Husband smiles at girl in bar
2. Husband chats to girl in bar
3. Husband flirts with girl in bar
4. Husband touches arm of girl in bar
5. Husband touches leg of girl in bar
6. Husband touches of girl in bar
7. Husmand masturbates in shower, thinking of the girl he met in the bar
8. Husband has`sex with wife but thinks of the girl he met in bar
9. Husband has oral sex with girl he met in bar
10 Husband has sex with girl he met in bar

I'll go with #9.

I'd say #9 as well.

I will say 8, 9, and 10. Lines started getting crossed at 6.

So my wife cannot complain if I flirt all night with girls in bars?

She can still think you are being an . Weigh your options flirt and you may have a price to pay with your wife.

I said #9 because I do know a lot of people that are touchy feely types, who are just that way... and #8, well, that's just fantasy... and everyone fantasizes at some point. Men and women. Its normal. And who needs the thought police telling us what to think, and when anyway. That rationalizes my pick.

Well sure she can complain. I wouldn't like it if my husband flirted with other girls. Just because it's not cheating doesn't mean your wife should be happy with it.

I'm a flirt. It never goes anywhere. My wife is OK with it. Of course I'm rarely in bars.

So my wife cannot complain if I flirt all night with girls in bars?

She can complain.

I say unfaithful starts at #9 but if your intentions and desires are focused on other women then your unfaithfulness starts in your heart before #1,

So to me the way I see it is
There are guys that go with the little bit of flirting and don't mean anything by it.
Then there are guys who have it in them to flirt and see just how far they can take it.

Motives and the desires of your heart are the only thing that can answer the question where unfaithfulness starts for you.
If it bothers your wife then you should take that into consideration and show her respect.
You may not mean anything by it but to her it may feel awkward and an insult to her feelings.

I going to say number 3 :o

I'm the jealous type and I've been cheated on before.

Each couple defines what is cheating for THEIR relationship. There is no "set" point that something is defined as cheating.

If your wife says it's #1, and you say it's #10, then you've got a heck of a conversation to have with each other to work that out.

The problem I have is with no person should have to cower and hide and live with unrealistiv demands of a spouse with self esteme issues. The problem is with the peron with issues... no adult should be demanding another adult be subserviant to their every demand. Man or woman. If you aren't in someone else's pants, there isn't cheating. Yeah, I would send any woman packing that thought she had the right to control where I look, who I talk to what I think about...

That's abuse... and plenty of women have complained about guys that subjected them to the same behaviour... well, I feel its wrong for either party to do so. That's no way for any adult to live in my mind. At 47 nobody is my superiour, I'm not a 7 year old. People are responsible for dealing with their own issues, and to not impose them onto others rather than dealing with it in a healthy manner.

Notice, I never said fooling around... getting in anothers pants while married (and not seperated) is the one thing a spouse can rightfully expect to not take place. Not whom you look at, or think about,or even talk to. After all, when that demand takes place then one person thinks they are superiour to the other, and the other is a second class person with fewer rights than they themselves have. We got rid of that being institutionalizd a VERY long time ago.


Yeah... as a self supporting adult, personal freedom, and freedom from being oppressed or bullied by ANYONE IS a big topic with me.

I agree Synenn, as long as both partners are on the same level it is fine.

I see your point also Smoothy, a lot of people are fine with both flirting and just having fun with no strings (flirting), I'm just not one of them is all.

My partner knows about my insecurities and he has done since the day we started dating so he doesn't have a problem with it.

A married couple we are friends with regularly have sex outside of their marriage and they are fine with it as long as their partner tells them beforehand or they are also involved.

Different strokes for different folks as they say.

Smoothy--MY definition of cheating is very close to your definition.

However--the OP's WIFE'S definition might be VERY different.

If a couple is (forgive me here, but it's the best word I can come up with) stupid enough not to set ground rules for that sort of thing BEFORE they get married, then COMMUNICATION is the problem, not self-esteem.

I agree that people shouldn't prevent their significant others from speaking to, flirting with, or even touching another person--but that's got to be defined for EACH RELATIONSHIP.

If you can't agree on a definition of what cheating is, then your relationship is doomed anyway.

I'd personally say 5. that is if he was rubbing her leg and not just patting it.. because that is also leading the girl into thinking he wants something more than just a friendly chat

I frigging well going with them all!

And I'm also going to say if this was my husband/boyfriend.

My reason is this.. if the girl in the bar is the SAME girl numbered 1 to 10,he has developed a crush or fantasy surrounding this girl,he is thinking about her,talking about her,then his focus is on her,not his primary relationship.

If its harmless flirting with a few woman,or the odd fantasy,1 to 6,is fine with me.

Smoothy--MY definition of cheating is very close to your definition.

However--the OP's WIFE'S definition might be VERY different.

If a couple is (forgive me here, but it's the best word I can come up with) stupid enough not to set ground rules for that sort of thing BEFORE they get married, then COMMUNICATION is the problem, not self-esteem.

I agree that people shouldn't prevent their significant others from speaking to, flirting with, or even touching another person--but that's got to be defined for EACH RELATIONSHIP.

If you can't agree on a definition of what cheating is, then your relationship is doomed anyway.

See, the fact SHE feels SHE is the one that can demand and control his life... because SHE has self esteme issues. If this was turned around and it was a guy doing this... and it has happened all too often to young women before they learn better, then its considered abuse. Its not right no matter who is doing it. And the person with the issues should get their issues resolved rather than expect other to conform to them.

Yeah communication is key obviously, but more people need to understand that one persons rights end where anothers begin. That right there is the source of so many problems its not even funny. Its just a variation of the golden rule... "do unto others, as you would have others do upon you." Hell so many problems gravitate back to that one thing.

Yeah everyone isn't going to be the same... but I like to use the above rule as a guidline as to if its right or wrong to do.

But I think we are drifting way off topic at this point, so rant over..

Exactly they have to come to agreement and understanding.
Like it depends on things like is the wife being unrealistic or is his flirting to a degree that makes the wife feel uncomfortable.

Like HOW is he touching another woman's leg.

I can sense when anybody touches, hugs or grabs at me whether it is meant sexual or just casual buddy.
I know when I grab a guys arm to make sure I have their attention when I say something
Whoever I am with thinks I am flirting when its nothing like that.

I know I wouldn't feel comfortable if I were sitting in a bar with my boyfriend and he started touching some girls leg. I would be asking myself why he felt the need to be touching her leg. I would be asking myself how would he feel if I went touching some guys leg.

If I were the wife that IS how I would handle it. I would be like what's good for the goose is good for the gander. If he can touch her leg I can touch some other guys leg.

But Smoothy--is SHE the one being irrational, because of self esteem issues?

Or is HE the one that is expecting to be able to act like he's single, even though he is now married?

I think anything from #5 on could be absolutely construed as cheating, depending on how it's done.

I'm a natural flirt. I made sure my husband understood that no matter who I flirted with, or touched (as long as it wasn't in a no-no place), I was going home with him---and if he couldn't deal with it, then we should end things before they get started.

However--if I had NEVER been a flirt, and then --because I'm bored in my marriage or whatever--just START to flirt with random guys in bars and touch them in ways to lead them on----my husband would have EVERY right to complain.

It's not about self-esteem or being controlling--it's about respecting each other enough to realize where the boundaries of any particular relationship are.

IF I'm having a girls night out,and some guy comes up and he is all 'hey baby' and starts touching me,arm,leg,head,whatever.. I would not be a happy camper that's for sure!

I behave in a way that is respectful to my relationship,I would not be making goo goo eyes at a random man,I'm all for having a laugh and a good time when I'm out,but just because I'm not with my boyfriend at the time do I consider myself single.

Im wondering if the op behaves the same way in a bar if he is with his wife?

But Smoothy--is SHE the one being irrational, because of self esteem issues?

Or is HE the one that is expecting to be able to act like he's single, even though he is now married?

I think anything from #5 on could be absolutely construed as cheating, depending on how it's done.

I'm a natural flirt. I made sure my husband understood that no matter who I flirted with, or touched (as long as it wasn't in a no-no place), I was going home with him---and if he couldn't deal with it, then we should end things before they get started.

However--if I had NEVER been a flirt, and then --because I'm bored in my marriage or whatever--just START to flirt with random guys in bars and touch them in ways to lead them on----my husband would have EVERY right to complain.

It's not about self-esteem or being controlling--it's about respecting each other enough to realize where the boundaries of any particular relationship are.

In my eyes she is being irrational. I have actually dated women that got all weird about who I spoke to, looked at, etc... even when these were friends I have known for years with NO desire to hop into bed with them for various reasons.

Some were worse than others... ALL are EX-girlfriends now. Like I said, I know a lot of people who are touchy, feely. If its your aunt or grandmother , maybe just a person that's much older, why is it more acceptable than if its someone young and attractive... say a best friends wife where there is no possibility anything will happen. And why exactly? My sister-in-laws are this way with me... always have been, wife doesn't freak out about it.

And we have seen so many threads on this site with women going bonkers because a guy just LOOKED at a woman across the street... but its always HIS problem... not hers, at least in her view.

And isn't that line of thought much like parts of Sharia law dictating who women can even be seen with or speak to... or if they can be out in public without their burlap sack... (Burqua) or risk being beaten? Just a role reversal and exaggerated...

I would say husband starting being unfaithful the moment he thought that he would do something with this girl in the bar. The seed was planted early on and if he went back to the bar thinking that he would see her, he planted the seed mentally and that to me is when it starts.

I agree that many girls get irrational, hysterical and all crazy. But some guys just aren't right with how they go about their flirting. Many of them give a girl reason to be bothered by it.

I agree that many girls get irrational, hysterical and all crazy. But some guys just aren't right with how they go about their flirting. Many of them give a girl reason to be bothered by it.Yeah, well there are some... and that does take place on both sides as well.

I've seen both men and women doing that before... usually to instigate a response for who knows what reason.

To the OP why must you flirt with all the girls at the bar if your wife has a problem with it?

When I go to the bar it is usually with friends or my fiancé and yes I talk to everyone at the bar but I don't go there to flirt. I go to have a good time with my friends or fiancé.

Same here I go for the band, the food and shoot pool.
(I buy one or two drinks and make it last)
Flirting should be done in good taste and not offensive to your significant other.\
If she is over reacting then maybe the problem is hers one way or another.

Most of what certain women call flirting (usually the ones with self esteme issues)... is just being sociable, this isn't Saudi Arabia or afghanistan after all. PARTICULARLY if she's there to see it. It's a rare guy that will actually flirt with his girlfriend or wife there.

I say it gets a bit iffy at 5

But definitely crosses the line at 9

My question for those that only see it as cheating starting at #9----what about cybering? What about texts, phone calls, "emotional" adultery? Those people seldom actually have sex with the person they are "cheating" with, but there's still a line being crossed, right?

I agree synnen that's cheating too... that wasn't listed but iw ould have said that emotional cheating is cheating.

Probably but it doesn't seem to bother me, most likely because I've never seen it happen to me. I certainly don't do anything that I wouldn't want my wife to do on her side. I've searched for ex-girlfriends on Facebook just for fun but that's about it.

I've always made a distinction between "cyber" stuff and real life. For instance I don't take this website (or any) seriously, I don't woryy about my reputatuon here because it isn't "real life" in my book. Phone calls are quite different, that gets in that gray area.

The only 'online cheating' I do is in a certain thread on here and my other half usually reads what I type.
If it was done without his knowledge and I kept it from him then I would consider it cheating.

I've been on one end of an "internet relationship" and it is not fun when you find out.

My question for those that only see it as cheating starting at #9----what about cybering? What about texts, phone calls, "emotional" adultery? Those people seldom actually have sex with the person they are "cheating" with, but there's still a line being crossed, right?Depends... if its done with the knowledge and expectation that they WOULD get together to consummate it at an unknown time... then maybe. Otherwise it isn't. You can fool around verbally without it being cheating. If you want to consider that cheating then I've cheated with all of my sister-in-laws, in front of their mother, in front of their husbands, in front of my wife, and even alone with them... but there was never any expectation that anyone would do anything. Even though we did get graphic joking around.

But then, none of my inlaws are paranoid or have low self esteme. Hell everyone gets a good laugh when I grab a handfull of butt and comment , "oh this is too soft, you need to exercise more" . Or "you need some more padding in this bra, I couldn't find your boobs", they joke about lets whip it out ans see what you have.. etc...


I know a few women in this thread would totally freak out in that situation. My wife knows we are just kidding around and so do they. And flirting is not at all he motive in this example.

In #8 we sometimes are thinking of different people when we have sex. I think that is what keeps the fire going SOMETIMES, not all the time. Men beat off to porn, what is the diff there in #7. In #9 the lips of the man should only be on the (lips) of his wife. He could still be thinking of the bar girl.. How are we to know what is inside of our husbands head. Again he COULD BE FANTASIZING. I think #9 and #10 are off limits...

The point there, Smoothy, is not that there's a lack of self-esteem involved---but that there's good, open communication.

I flirt all the time--but I don't do anythign my husband would be ashamed of me doing, or that would hurt him.

I know which things those are because we communicate.

I don't think intent is the issue--it's that some people just have different expectations of behaviour in their significant other than other people do. As long as there is communication about what is and is not acceptable, where's the issue?

The point there, Smoothy, is not that there's a lack of self-esteem involved---but that there's good, open communication.

I flirt all the time--but I don't do anythign my husband would be ashamed of me doing, or that would hurt him.

I know which things those are because we communicate.

I don't think intent is the issue--it's that some people just have different expectations of behaviour in their significant other than other people do. As long as there is communication about what is and is not acceptable, where's the issue?And the people with self esteme issues have to own up to their problems and do something about it. Rather that transmit their own deficiencies on others and expect them to conform to their distorted views.

Jealousy, low self esteme, and other issues (such as paranoia, or shyness) can't be treated until that person acknowledges it, takes ownership of it, and works hard to improve the condition.

Some people just expect everyone else to conform to what they expect everyone should do. And that's neither healthy, nor right. Because it's the easy exit for them. They do not wish to do the hard work to improve their condition, preferring to dominate someone else so they don't have to face their problems.


After all, as I have previously mentioned... one persons rights end when the other persons begins. And I believe those rights are sacred.

What if both people agree that simple flirting is taking it too far?

I thought with flirting we were talking about in a bar without the persons wife/husband being there?

I don't have a problem with my partner hugging his female friends or having a general 'flirting' conversation but with an unknown girl in a bar yes I would have a problem. I don't think that's a self esteem issue, I take it more as 'why would he want to be flirting with someone else when he is committed to me?'

What if both people agree that simple flirting is taking it too far?

I thought with flirting we were talking about in a bar without the persons wife/husband being there?

I don't have a problem with my partner hugging his female friends or having a general 'flirting' conversation but with an unknown girl in a bar yes I would have a problem. I don't think that's a self esteem issue, I take it more as 'why would he want to be flirting with someone else when he is commited to me?'


Aha... but if you aren't there, then how do you know that its flirting, and not just being sociable? I've seen women that got really *itchy if I talked to a female... yet they felt they could talk to however many guys they felt like...

If both are that paranoid about a taliban description of flirting then I forcast a painfully dull marriage based on the personality type.

And while you would have him striking up a conversation with a female being flirting... then how would you feel if YOU were prohibited from talking to any other guys outside of those you have to work with? And why would that be different? Reversing the roles is a great way to see when something is unreasonible.

Aha...but if you aren't there, then how do you know that its flirting, and no being sociable? I've seen women that got really *itchy if I talked to a female....yet they felt they could talk to however many guys they felt like...

If both are that paranoid about a taliban description of flirting then I forcast a painfully dull marriage based on the personality type.

And while you would have him striking up a conversation with a female.... how would you feel if YOU were prohibited from talking to any other guys outside of those you have to work with? And why would that be different? Reversing the roles is a great way to see when something is unreasonible.

You do have a good point, I see a diference between just chatting and flirting though. Chatting to another girl would be fine, my partner goes to a lot of car shows and often talks to girls about cars, outright flirting would be a no-no for me though.

I don't have a problem if other people do it differently and are happy to let their partners flirt if they know that's as far as it goes but I just can't seem to get my head around it personally.

I don't know if I am old fashioned or have self esteem isuues like you said but that is just how I have always seen it.

You do have a good point, I see a diference between just chatting and flirting though. Chatting to another girl would be fine, my partner goes to a lot of car shows and often talks to girls about cars, outright flirting would be a no-no for me though.

I don't have a problem if other people do it differently and are happy to let their partners flirt if they know that's as far as it goes but I just can't seem to get my head around it personally.

I don't know if I am old fashioned or have self esteem isuues like you said but that is just how I have always seen it.

I see flirting as an attempt to pick up a date... vs just talking with no intent of going out together... just because they are atractive, doesn't automattically make it flirting. And conversely just because they aren't attractive doesn't mean they can't be flirting. And what defines a flirt is entirly the intent of the flirter, not what a third party thinks. That's the difference between being sociable and a flirt.

I see flirting as an attempt to pick up a date....vs just talking with no intent of going out together....just because they are atractive, doesn't automattically make it flirting. And conversely just because they aren't attractive doesn't mean they can't be flirting. And what defines a flirt is entirly the intent of the flirter, not what a third party thinks. Thats the difference between being sociable and a flirt.

True, you never know what the person is thinking.
And yes I do think it would be wrong to limit all contact with the opposite sex so...
I conceed defeat :)

True, you never know what the person is thinking.
And yes I do think it would be wrong to limit all contact with the opposite sex so...
I conceed defeat :)
Key is trust... and faith in your partner. If you don't have that, then how solid can your relationship really be.

Talking or flirting
Either one depends on the initial intent as someone else replied about planting the seed to see where it goes.

Key is trust...and faith in your partner. If you don't have that, then how solid can your relationship really be.

Very true.
Once you have been broken once it can be hard to have complete trust in someone again.
I am now at that point I think.

I used to be the "taliban" woman not liking him even talking to girls but over time I am unfazed by it. I know he would not engage in flirting.

I think I misunderstood what you were saying at first, I was taking it as openly flirting behind their partners back. I understand now.

When he gets to # 1/2 on your list.

So my wife cannot complain if I flirt all night with girls in bars?Well, would you complain if your wife flirted all night with guys in bars?

. And what defines a flirt is entirly the intent of the flirter, not what a third party thinks. Thats the difference between being sociable and a flirt.

And what defines a cheater is the INTENT of the cheater, regardless what a 3rd party thinks?

With that reasoning, a person that loves their spouse and plans to live with them and love them and raise children with them can have meaningless sex on the side, because they LOVE their spouse, and the sex is "just meaningless", therefore it can't be cheating.

Cheating--and I'll stand behind this 100%--is defined by BOTH people in the relationship. If you can't agree on which step would be cheating, your relationship is probably doomed to begin with. Two people that see #1 as cheating would be perfectly happy with each other---as would two people who don't see it as cheating until #10. It's when there is a difference that communication needs to come into play, and the "rules" for the relationship need to be defined.

Very true.
Once you have been broken once it can be hard to have complete trust in someone again.
I am now at that point I think.

I used to be the "taliban" woman not liking him even talking to girls but over time I am unfazed by it. I know he would not engage in flirting.

I think I misunderstood what you were saying at first, I was taking it as openly flirting behind their partners back. I understand now.Oh there are a handful of guys that do openly flirt in front of their girlfriend / wife. But they are easy to spot... they are usually control freaks, and abusive. The "bad boy" type so many young suckers... er I mean women fall for. THere have been upteen threads about them here, sure you've seen some of them. After all, I've always been baffled by those women who get all paranoid and such when he has decided to come home with you, marry you or whatever. Particularly if he's still single, he could get up and leave if that's what he wanted... yet some women will drive a guy to do just that.

And yeah... the trust thing is a tough one once its lost. It is hard to get back. And you you keep looking back instead of ahead its going to be harder to get there. After all if you focus on where you've been excessively, you have little time to see where you are going.

And what defines a cheater is the INTENT of the cheater, regardless what a 3rd party thinks?

With that reasoning, a person that loves their spouse and plans to live with them and love them and raise children with them can have meaningless sex on the side, because they LOVE their spouse, and the sex is "just meaningless", therefore it can't be cheating.

Cheating--and I'll stand behind this 100%--is defined by BOTH people in the relationship. If you can't agree on which step would be cheating, your relationship is probably doomed to begin with. Two people that see #1 as cheating would be perfectly happy with each other---as would two people who don't see it as cheating until #10. It's when there is a difference that communication needs to come into play, and the "rules" for the relationship need to be defined.

No, that's not at all what I said. If you are having ANY sex on the side... you've jumped the shark. You CAN have good friends of the opposite sex that is totally platonic... who ever said you HAVE to have sex with anyone of the opposite sex you talk with.

Yeah there might be a handful of immature people that do think that, but most don't. A man and a woman can joke around, talk about a lot of things... and neither of them ever considers fooling around together.

And #9 is most definitely cheating... oral sex is still sex... and well #10 just narrows down a bit what gets put where.

Lets say I can joke around with you on "pick a topic" . Doesn't matter what topic. We are both happily married and neither of us would fool around with the other in that way, I am thus not flirting with you trying to get in your pants... we are just two friends that can joke around on adult topics without either expecting or worrying about the other wanting to go there.

Now that's just being sociable... now assume you have a prudish partner, that thinks and believe you can't just be friends with the opposite sex. Should you be expected to give up your circle of friends where nothing is happening and won't happen, just to please one person with an unreasonible fear?

I have women friends, I have guy friends... I'm not trying to get into anyone's pants. But I do enjoy converstions on diverse topics. I know that everyone else knows that... but assume my wife was a paranoid type that thinks everyone is a bisexual sex fiend... why should I sit at home alone talking to no one just to please her, and be miserable?

Two people who actually beileve #1 is cheating are going to be one of those couples that stop having sex together about 5 years into the marriage, because its so dull and repetative, as people that narrow minded have no friends out of fear of upseting the other by even looking at another person. I know a few devout Muslims that would say that person is weird. True, they aren't Saudi or Taliban, but were born Afghan and very friendly and outgoing, the men and women.

See my point there, or am I just rambling.

shazamataz (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/members/shazamataz.html) agrees: Very true, not looking back is hard, but it is something you need to do.

But like driving a car... you don't focus on the rear view mirror. A glance every so often is fine... but if you focus on it then you are going to have an accident, and not make it to where you are going.

Let me add a couple of experiences, to put my question in context. I have paid over a thousand dollars to sit and flirt with a hostess in a Tokyo club, and five dollars for sex in a tent near a Jakarta railway track.

One was an incredibly erotic experience that will remain in my mind until the day I die, and I never even touched as much as her had (I would have been thrown straight out of the club had I done so).

The other was a quick exchange of fluids. (Maybe I should have paid 10 dollars)... It had no meaning, other than I was horny and she was hungry. It was an eminently forgettable experience.

Is a relationship about mental bonding with another person, or about ejaculation?

I wasn't aware we were throwing prostitution in the mix. That's cheating right off the bat for me.

Your wife should leave you because now your just bagging about your evil ways and your not even remorseful. I knew there was something more behind your thread besides an insecure wife.

Your wife should leave you if she has any common sense because you're a dog.

Cheating is cheating regardless if you have any meaning feelings for these females. Then to use your horniness as an excuse is throwing more salt to the wound.

Your wife should leave you because now your just bagging about your evil ways and your not even remorseful. I knew there was something more behind your thread besides an insecure wife.

Your wife should leave you if she has any common sense because your a dog.

Cheating is cheating regardless if you have any meaning feelings for these females. Then to use your horniness as an excuse is throwing more salt to the wound.

I rest my case...

Case rested then because you have no case.

I believe a husband is unfaithful when he has fully decided in his heart to give in to the lustful and sexual desires he might be feeling towards another woman. Finding other woman attractive is normal. Men and woman are not blind. It is normal to find someone other than your spouse attractive. However when a man can no longer control his thoughts he can no longer control his body and eventually he will end up in the sack with the other woman. Signs that show that your husband has given in to this can vary so it will depend on how good that person knows his or her spouse.

This thread just got a whole lot stranger and a whole lot more confusing.

My case, which I declined to place before you until I had a few answers to prove my point, was that no one can agree on a sociatal definition of "cheating" within a relationship. As I asked (an no one answered) - Is a relationship about mental bonding with another person, or about ejaculation?

Obviously a relationship is not about ejaculation, it is about mental bonding. And to enter into a relationship you do not have to have intercourse. You can cheat on your wife without sex, and to be honest a lot of men firmly believe that you are not cheating if you have sex without any mental bonding.

The most interesting thing is the poster who called me a dog (errrrrr - where is the moderator here... ).

In her earlier post she state that the line was drawn at 8, where the husband has intercourse with his wife, but thinks of the other girl. This is a mental relationship!!

Yet now she says "Cheating is cheating regardless if you have any meaning feelings for these females". Which implies (if I understand her sentence) a physical relationship.


Cheating is an individual perception in the mind of the one who may or may not be cheating. It is not up for others to determine if someone is cheating or not, since we cannot ever determine a common definition. Your interpretation of "cheating" is individualistic, and therefore it is not possible to be judgmental of the situation.

Before any of you go hitting the keys and blab on about cheating, consider that it is only your interpretation, not societal standards, not those applicable to the individual situation.

Of course it is about mentally AND emotionally bonding and your wife should be an emotional wreck by now.

I would dump a guy that WASTED over a thousand dollars on a woman when he could have spent it on a great vacation with the wife!

My question is this:

at what part in this scenario is the husband unfaithful:

1. Husband smiles at girl in bar
2. Husband chats to girl in bar
3. Husband flirts with girl in bar
4. Husband touches arm of girl in bar
5. Husband touches leg of girl in bar
6. Husband touches of girl in bar
7. Husmand masturbates in shower, thinking of the girl he met in the bar
8. Husband has`sex with wife but thinks of the the girl he met in bar
9. Husband has oral sex with girl he met in bar
10 Husband has sex with girl he met in bar

At what point is the wife unfaithful?

My question is this: at what part in this scenario is the husband unfaithful:

1 Wife smiles at a guy in a bar.
2. Wife chats with a guy in a bar.
3. Wife flirts with a guy in a bar.
4. Wife touches arm of a guy in a bar.
5. Wfie touches leg of a guy in a bar.
6. Wife touches a guy in a bar.
7. Wife masturbates n shower, thinking of guy she met in bar.
8. Wife has sex with husband, thinking about guy she met in a bar.
9. Wife has oral sex with guy she met in a bar.
10. Wife has sex with a guy she met in a bar.

Now it is time for you to answer . What do you think.

It would be the same for either males or females with me.. Numbers Nine and Ten. Though depending on the type of leg touching that one could be questionable at times...

I wouldn't want my mans hands all over some girl he met in the bar. Think about it, would you want her hands all over some guy in a bar? If the girl was a good friend I could see you being more of "touchyfeely" type as an actual sign of affection for a friend. But if your touching some woman you don't even know in a bar, in a flirty way that's a show of your intentions. That's just how I feel about it.

This thread just got a whole lot stranger and a whole lot more confusing.


If you think THIS is confusing, read the other threads this person (a trained psychologist, as I recall) started!

When the best sex of your life is sex you have to pay for, you have problems beyond those anyone here can help with.

At what part in this scenario is the husband unfaithful:

1. Husband smiles at girl in bar
No problem
2. Husband chats to girl in bar
No problem
3. Husband flirts with girl in bar
No problem
4. Husband touches arm of girl in bar
No problem
5. Husband touches leg of girl in bar
Problem
6. Husband touches of girl in bar
Touches what??
7. Husband masturbates in shower, thinking of the girl he met in the bar
No problem
8. Husband has`sex with wife but thinks of the girl he met in bar
No problem
SO FAR SO GOOD, BUT THEN,
9. Husband has oral sex with girl he met in bar
Big Problem
10 Husband has sex with girl he met in bar
Big problem.

I do have to agree with the OP that name calling is not necessary.

Be more creative in your insults than "dog", in my opinion.

I'd ALSO like to point out to the OP that I said from the get-go that cheating is defined by the people in the relationship.

If you are not asking questions about personal situations, but are instead making up hypothetical situations just to get a rise out of people---that's called being a troll, and I won't stand for it.

Please clarify whether you are trying to start a discussion (in which case the thread should be in Member Discussions) or whether this is really a situation you need help with.

Since the question was posed to apply to the woman as well?
Personally, I feel the same point is true either with the man or the woman. I don't differentiate. I still feel #9 is where that line is crossed. Fantasy is fine... everyone normal fantasizes, at least those who are not obessesed with someone. But when fantasy becomes reality that line is crossed. I view oral sex as sex, doesn't matter which socket the light is plugged into, once its on, its on, there are no semantics as to certain sockets being OK but not others.

So my wife cannot complain if I flirt all night with girls in bars?

Would you complain if she flirted all night with guys? I just started to read this threat and that got right on my nerves. Why would you feel like you need to flirt with other girls all night?

Would you complain if she flirted all night with guys? I just started to read this threat and that got right on my nerves. Why would you feel like you need to flirt with other girls all night?
I think "Flirting" needs to be defined a little better. Depending on the definition the list would no longer be progressive however.

I think "Flirting" needs to be defined a little better. Depending on the definition the list would no longer be progressive however.

True, everyone has a different opinion on flirting.

To some people it is complimenting someone on their clothing

To other people it is saying "hey nice boobs"