Today, I read the following passage:

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. (KJV)

I understand that the Bible only tells us stories of Adam & Eve and their descendents.

Did anybody read any commentary or any book on males and females created before Adam? Who were these man and woman? Is there any mention of these people, other than when Cain was given a mark to protect him from that "every one that findeth me shall slay me"(Genesis 4:14)?

This passage has always confused me too.

I take it to mean that he created all the races, black, asian, spaniard, white, indian etc. and placed them thruought the world.

However, adam and eve were in the garden of eden to keep the garden and care for it. Then when they were disobedient, they were sent out from the garden.


Later, it says that adam and eves children took husbands and wives from the population around them. Which means they could not have been the only people there...

Triund,
It is believed by many if not most people that Adam and Eve were the first and only humans with a soul.
Also that Adam and Eve had many children and they married each other.
They were born with no genetic defects, Those came along much later.
That is what I believe.
Others believe that there were some cave man type peoples who were there who some of Adam's and Eve's children did mate with.
Walking down the streets in many cities a person often see people who look like cavemen which may be one of the reasons such a believe came to be.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

The Bible is clear that we are all descended from Adam and Eve - why we all have sinful blood in us - why Jesus was born of a virgin woman where his sinless blood came from God the Father.
Genesis 5:4 says that Adam and Eve had other sons and daughters. This is where Cain got his wife and also where his fear of the "others" killing him would come. At the time Adam and Eve had perfect genetics with all the variations contained in them. Just like when a person makes a copy of that copy of that copy of a document, things get worse and worse. The same thing happens genetically. Finally, dna got so corrupted that close relations were forbidden to marry because it doubles the odds of birth defect. Even with this prohibition birth defects are always increasing. In dog breeds, the "purebreds" are the least healthy and defects are destroying entire breeds. Everyone knows that so-called "mongrels" are usually much healthier than "purebreds."
This is due to the second Law of thermodynamics - entropy - things are decaying, winding down, getting worse on a universal scale.
Scientists know and believe this Law but ignore that evolution teaches the opposite. Stars grow dim and go out, comets disappear, orbits decay. Unless acted upon by an intelligent force, everything dies or decays. (Life - plants, animals, humans, do grow and thrive for a time but all then decay and/or die. Our ancestors were extremely intelligent. Despite the jokes about so-called cave men there is a green movement to make our houses more like caves for energy savings. Drive through Missouri sometime on the interstate. In winter, the billboards say, "visit our caves - they are always a warm 62-65 degrees." In summer, the same billboards say, "visit our caves - they are always a cool 65-68 degrees."

I'm sorry jeff, but you are wrong... cain did not take a wife from any sisters he had...


Genesis 4 11-17

And now you are cursed from the ground, which has opened its mouth to receive your brother's blood from your hand. 12 When you till the ground, it shall no longer yield to you its strength; you shall be a fugitive and a wanderer on the earth." 13 Cain said to the LORD, "My punishment is greater than I can bear. 14 Behold, thou hast driven me this day away from the ground; and from thy face I shall be hidden; and I shall be a fugitive and a wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will slay me." 15 Then the LORD said to him, "Not so! If any one slays Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold." And the LORD put a mark on Cain, lest any who came upon him should kill him. 16 Then Cain went away from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, east of Eden. 17 Cain knew his wife, and she conceived and bore Enoch; and he built a city, and called the name of the city after the name of his son, Enoch.




I looked from genesis 1 to these verses and found nothing about cain getting married before this... he must have taken his wife from Nod.

If I'm wrong then the Bible is wrong because it clearly states there were only 2 people on earth, Adam and Eve and Eve, being the "mother of all living" gave birth to many children. Yes Cain went away from the presence of the Lord and dwelt in the land of Nod. The Bible just does not mention that he took his wife with him nor does it mention when he is in Nod acquiring a wife at that time. You are reading something into scripture that it isn't clear on. Living in the land of Nod was certainly possible for one of his sisters to be there before him since no time frame is given and living to be quite old, the bible mentions some not taking a wife till they were over 100. Even if your conclusion is correct that he took his wife from when he arrived in Nod, that doesn't mean the woman wasn't his sister. When giving the genealogies in genesis, the Bible doesn't mention the woman at all in many places. For example "When seth lived 105 years he became the father of Enosh... when Enosh had lived 90 years, he became the father of Kenan. Of course, you don't conclude that since no woman or marriage is mentioned that these men gave birth themselves!
I'm amazed you tell me I'm wrong when you have no proof you are right and if you are right then the Bible is wrong. The Bible is clear that all humans descended from Adam and Eve.

I understood that he went to a different land to take his wife but as you said they could have just arrived years before.
Incest was not a law until much later in the Bible.

Still on vacation but I have dropped in once or twice to view the threads.So I will offer a short answer to this thread.

The idea that Adam and Eve were the first created, whould make void the Word of God.. It clearly states in (Genesis 1:27) male and female were created. KJV

In (Genesis 1:31) God looked back on what He created and was pleased, and this was the sixth day..

There after begins the single hertiage of life in what Adam and Eve represent as one family hertiage leading to Christ, the King of Kings on earth. And because it is important for us to acknolwedge Christ as a man, yet begotten of God who did walk on this earth. The fulfillment of Christ depended on all that was written in scripture telling of the generations, that lead to HIS throne on earth being King of Kings yet also LORD of LORDS. The fact in the description of Eve (mother of all living) is a direct relation to the generation and hertiage of Christ the living bread that brought us all life.

I believe that adam and eve were the FIRST created, but not the ONLY. As sndbay said, it clearly says before he made adam and eve, he created the human male and female.

Adam and eve were chosen to keep his garden.

Exactly which verses prove God made others before Adam and Eve?

He created male and female does not prove a plural of more than the two.

If you are saying that he created male and female before Adam and Eve that doesn't make sense because in the beginning of Genesis they reiterate the creation.
Otherwise you are saying he created Adam and Eve from the dirt AFTER the seven day creation after he created others.
Why would have created them later?
I can understand it to a degree but it doesn't add up to me.

I think the original poster is only asking if anyone has heard of or read any sources that speak of people before adam and eve. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

this is what I've dug up with a quick search. Most speak only of lilith, adam's first wife.


The Lilith Myth (http://gnosis.org/lilith.htm)

Were There People Before Adam and Eve? (http://christianparty.net/wm/wm0123a.html)

"Hey" There Were People on Earth before Adam and Eve: The Creation before Adam and Eve (http://www.dorrancebookstore.com/hthwepeoneab.html)



while this one has no seeming basis in provable facts, I do find it amusing ^_^

We are the other people (http://www.sanfords.net/Pagan_Humor_and_Thoughts/Other_People.html)

I believe in the gap theory and I have heard of the stuff on the links you gave but it still doesn't add up to me. Like people were created on the 5th? Day but then he created Adam and Eve 11 verses later after the 7th day?

One of the things people have difficulty with in the Bible is there is no sense of time, we see only a dim picture of a few points in time with no explanation of how much time has passed in these early days. Adam is counted as living a thousand years so we have no idea where some of the events are on the time line but much can happen in a thousand years or fifty generations and certainly a family population can become huge in that time.

Just because something happened once doesn't make it a rule, so a man took a wife at one hundred, it doesn't mean all men waited that long or that that was his only wife. That Cain took a wife from another group doesn't mean they were not related and when they speak of a city they are not talking of a metropolis but something a little better established than a village. Consider how large a town of a few thousand people is, in the light of those ancient days it is huge.

The point of the Story of Adam and Eve is to provide context for the human condition.
1. God treated man, man did not create God
2. Man transgressed and the consequence of sin is the need for redemption, to restore the relationship between God and man
3. Man is easily deceived into thinking he can be like God, knowing all things

It basically boils down to a matter of opinion. There will never be conclusive proof in any direction that will convince either science or religion that they're wrong.

See, the problem I have with the idea that adam and eve were the ONLY humans... is that if this were true, we would all be the same color... where did the africans come from? The spanish? The asian? And any number of other races and ethnicitys...

Some people say there is proof that the first race was African. I believe they were darker skin middle eastern Jews.

I remember yrs ago reading in the OT Genesis 4 that Ham was the first man of the black race. I haven't see it in any newer Bibles I have read.

Before anyone can come to the full understanding of the answer , One must first ask them self, What was the forbidden fruit?
Why was Adam and Eve commanded not to partake of it? ( Even though their actions was necessary for the fall to take place). Who in there right minds would want to leave a perfect garden , where they actually talked to God and all the animals?
There were beings among the new world, Only they were not man. Fallen Angels,
Who were jealous of us , because they thought God loved us more. The leader of those few Angels is called, Lucifer. (Who was band from the Grand Council of Heaven for his own sins ).
Remember we are created in his ( the Creators image) We choose to leave our home with him and come here too this Temporal world to be tried and tested as he (God) sees fit. The ultimate goal being found worthy to resurrect back onto him just as his true Son our saviour Jesus Christ taught us. By his Example.

Tried to keep it as simple as I could. But for those of you who think the fruit is still an Apple and the tempter was a snake , good luck and stay wonderful.

I must agree with homesell.
Fred

Thanks Fred.
Every time a number is used with the word "day" in the bible, it means an ordinary day. Every time evening or morning is mentioned, it means an ordinary day, so when the Bible says "there was evening and there was morning, the first day..." etc. the second the third and so on it is saying it is an ordinary day. If one isn't sure God meant an ordinary day he numbers it so that they understand, and if they still don't believe it he makes it plain by adding evening and morning. The only place in the entire Bible that people question the meaning of the word "day" is in Genesis 1. You never hear people say, "I wonder if Jonah was in the belly of the great fish 3 days or 3 thousand years?" The only reason people question the 6 days is because fallible man has brought in the idea that the earth is billions of years old. Even non-believers and bible scholars say that the meaning of day in Genesis is clear.
In Exodus, God wrote with his own finger into a rock that He(God) created in six days and that is why the seventh day is a day of rest.
Jesus said in Matthew, "In the beginning, the Creator made them male and female..."
I'm not going to contradict the Bible or what Jesus says.
Knowledge from "operational science" - things that are observable, testable, and repeatable are what brought us cars, and cellphones and all the wondrous devices that we have and I fully embrace all of it.
"Origin science" is not science at all but pure speculation based on assumptions starting with the worldview assumption that the earth is billions of years old.

Thanks Jeff,
But...
I still believe that the universe is billions of years old.
God may have made it that way, but that is the way I see it.
Fred

Hey Guys you won't like this but there is room for both views. You have heard of the Gap between Gen 1 and Gen 2 If the Earth was formless and void, did it exist or not?
I suggest that it existed but perhaps not as we know today. I also suggest there is not much evidence for human beings as modern man more than 6,000 years ago, irrespective of what my aboriginal neighbours might say. The sudden change in circumstance doesn't wash without the intervention of God. So the scientific view and the Biblical view may be reconcilable without the mental gynmastics. Truly it isn't about such things but about why we need Jesus Christ

Hey Guys you won't like this but there is room for both views. You have heard of the Gap between Gen 1 and Gen 2 If the Earth was formless and void, did it exist or not?
I suggest that it existed but perhaps not as we know today. I also suggest there is not much evidence for human beings as modern man more than 6,000 years ago, irrespective of what my aboriginal neighbours might say. The sudden change in circumstance doesn't wash without the intervention of God. So the scientifc view and the Biblical view may be reconcilable without the mental gynmastics. Truely it isn't about such things but about why we need Jesus Christ

There is enormous evidence for modern man more than 6 thousand years ago. Jericho, a city in the Bible, has been dated to 9 thousand years ago. "Modern" man is variously dated from 200,000 years ago to one million years ago. Are you aware of the cave paintings in Lascaux, France from 35,000 years ago? Please research on the net - it's very simple.

What do you mean by "modern man"? And what do you mean by your "aboriginal neighbours"?

paraclete and athos,
I agree.
Evidence that mankind has existed fir many, many thousands of years is found in many places on this planet.
Fred

Again, these rocks and artifacts didn't come with a tag saying "X" number of years old. The dating methods are dubious at best and every dating method relies on underlying assumptions about the sample before the testing begins. For example, testing labs "dated" rocks found at Mt. St. Helens just months after they were formed in that volcanic explosion as over 1 million years old. Why? Because the testers weren't told the KNOWN age of the rocks which was just a few months. Don't get me wrong, it isn't that I think creation should be taught in the classroom because I don't. I just don't think there is any need at all to teach evolution in our classroom either since neither belief system has any direct input or affect on true science(observable, repeatable, testable.) Speculation based on assumptions should be left to the philosophy class.
Why some scientist say some things are facts when they aren't anywhere near provable is just wrong. Yes, science can test a rock and find out what elements are in it and what it is made up of. That is true science. To determine the age though, they rely on certain assumptions like how much of the mother elements were in the original rock formation(which they can't be know) if the rate of decay has been constant(since many things effect the rate of decay) and if surrounding rocks influence. One of dirty little secrets of "science" is that they use surrounding fossils to determine the age of rocks and also use the age of rocks to determine the age of fossils. Ask any geologist or Paleontologist how they date the fossil or rock aside from the actual testing assumptions. Send any rock off to a lab to be tested for its age. They ask for the money upfront, ask you what age range you are looking for and surprise! Your rock comes back as having tested out in that very age range or slightly older. Older is always better for a scientists rep. If they dig up an entire automobile and say wow! This car dates all the way back to 1953 no one cares, but if they found an automobile inside one of the tombs of egypt, that persons career would be made.

homesell,
That'
;s very interesting.
Thanks much. Fred

Revelations (12: 7-12) John sees the war that actually took place in Heaven in the Beginning when Satan and his followers was cast out. Telling us were he was cast too.
The name Satan may not be used in the book of Genesis because he is a deceiver and wants to remain that way as long as he can. Unknown to the new inhabitants of the earth. This I thought was seminary Bible study 101 basics.

The problem here is man.

For the natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the fall of Adam, and will be forever and ever. Unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit, and putteth off the natural man and becometh a Saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord and becometh as a child , submissive, meek, humble, patient, full of love, willing to submit to all things which the Lord seeth fit to inflict upon him , even as a child doth submit to his father.

The dating methods are dubious at best and every dating method relies on underlying assumptions about the sample before the testing begins. For example, testing labs "dated" rocks found at Mt. St. Helens just months after they were formed in that volcanic explosion as over 1 million years old. Why? because the testers weren't told the KNOWN age of the rocks which was just a few months.

Homesell, this is very disingenuous of you. The Mt. St. Helens samples/results have long since been discarded as bad science. The lab itself admitted its faulty methodology and has stopped testing of this sort. Anyone can research this for himself by a simple Google.

When you post stuff like this as though it were the truth, everything else you say comes into question. You claim to be a "scientist" (or, at least, have claimed a scientific background, and a "genius" IQ), but, in these days, people like yourself who so casually make statements about science to support creationism are increasingly being challenged - and rightly so.

You seem like a nice guy, sincere, but posting false science does you and your position no good. Sorry.

In our image simply means Father ( Elohim) God and (Jehovah) Son of man.

Homesell, this is very disingenuous of you. The Mt. St. Helens samples/results have long since been discarded as bad science. The lab itself admitted its faulty methodology and has stopped testing of this sort. Anyone can research this for himself by a simple google.

When you post stuff like this as though it were the truth, everything else you say comes into question. You claim to be a "scientist" (or, at least, have claimed a scientific background, and a "genius" IQ), but, in these days, people like yourself who so casually make statements about science to support creationism are increasingly being challenged - and rightly so.

You seem like a nice guy, sincere, but posting false science does you and your position no good. Sorry.


So what methods do you support that prove the age of the earth?
And how do you know they are accurate?

I must agree with Athos on that.
Posting bad science is bad news.
Fred

BUT is what Homesell said 'bad science'?

N0help4u,
That's a good question.
Obviously some folks think it is.
Fred

I'm not the one that tested the rocks. Am I to be blamed that their testing methods were faulty? If they used faulty testing methods how am I using bad science?
So they no longer do testing like that - how do we know the testing they are doing now is accurate?
All that testing - regardless of what they tell you - and regardless of how accurate it is, depends on a lot of assumptions. My final answer. Thank you, those that have found my answers throughout AHMD thought provoking. The worst thing anyone can do is blindly accept what the public school system and the media spout. I know my detractors say the worst thing I do is blindly accept the absolute word of my Creator God. Guilty. Farewell.

I'm not the one that tested the rocks. Am I to be blamed that their testing methods were faulty? If they used faulty testing methods how am I using bad science?
So they no longer do testing like that - how do we know the testing they are doing now is accurate?
All that testing - regardless of what they tell you - and regardless of how accurate it is, depends on a lot of assumptions. My final answer. Thank you, those that have found my answers throughout AHMD thought provoking. The worst thing anyone can do is blindly accept what the public school system and the media spout. I know my detractors say the worst thing I do is blindly accept the absolute word of my Creator God. Guilty. Farewell.

No, of course you are not to be blamed for their testing methods. The fault is in using them (bad science) to support your position. Surely, you see the difference.

The testing they are doing now is irrelevant. You cited them re the Mt. St. Helen's rocks, and that testing is the issue, not any other testing.

I don't know what your "detractors" say or not say, nor does the public school system or the media have anything to do with my post. But I certainly respect your right to blindly accept what you perceive as the absolute word of your Creator God - my only objection is offering faulty science to support that position.

My Lutheran minister father was as conservative as they come. He believed that God, after creating Adam and Eve, went on to create more people. My father did not believe the woman Cain married was a relative.

I posted a post in religious discussions on why I do not believe God created other humans.
Basically the Bible says we all decended from Adam AND Eve. If there were other humans there would have been people on the earth without sin because they would not have the blood of Adam and Eve. If there were others that were put here after Adam and Eve they would have had to have had a sin nature and God can not create sin.

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/religious-discussions/4-sndbay-others-earth-besides-adam-eve-373109.html

If there were other humans there would have been people on the earth without sin because they would not have the blood of Adam and Eve.
Of course, that assumes one believes the Garden story.


If there were others that were put here after Adam and Eve they would have had to have had a sin nature and God can not create sin.
My father died in 1994, so he isn't available right now. Otherwise, I'd ask him if that was something he had considered.

I do now believe that Cain marries a relative, probably a sister.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Of course, that assumes one believes the Garden story.


My father died in 1994, so he isn't available right now. Otherwise, I'd ask him if that was something he had considered.

Assuming I don't believe there really isn't oxygen because I can't see it doesn't mean it isn't real.

Assuming I don't believe there really isn't oxygen because I can't see it doesn't mean it isn't real.
You can't see your breath in the wintertime?

Athos,
About the rocks. Basically you're saying I'm using bad science because I used a faulty scientific study? Don't you see that is the whole point! As soon as they were found out they blamed faulty testing methods and now stick to testing samples that no one can disprove and asking what age range you're looking for! Even my atheist geology professor at college thought it was amusing that they used fossils to date rocks, they use rocks to date fossils, and they ask you upfront for a large fee and the approximate age you want them to find.

Wg,
That's not oxygen but CO2. Her point was that we believe in many things we can't see, like atoms. Some things we cannot see but we can see the effects of their presence. Light, Wind, etc.

wg,
that's not oxygen but CO2. Her point was that we believe in many things we can't see, like atoms. Some things we cannot see but we can see the effects of their presence. Light, Wind, etc.
MY point was that things can be proven somehow to be there. You are such a literalist!

Wondergirl,
When you see your breather in the wintertime cold air you see the steam from your breath not the air outside of you.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Wondergirl,
When you see your breather in the wintertime cold air you see the steam from your breath not the air outside of you.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
Yeah, yeah, but what is the steam going into? A vacuum? I can suck in a mouthful of oxygen and blow it out. Then what?

Wondergirl.
The oxygen you breath in is absorbed by your lungs and distributed to your red blood cells.
What you breath out in carbondoxyide and moisture which does contribute to the air outside of you.
Fred.

Wondergirl.
The oxygen you breath in is absorbed by your lungs and distributed to your red blood cells.
What you breath out in carbondoxyide and moisture which does contribute to the air outside of you.
Fred.
BUT, dear Fred, if I suck in air and hold it in my mouth (do not inhale) and then blow it out, there will be steam.

Wondergirl,
That is true, but the oxygen still cannot be seen unless it is frozen into a liquid at hundreds of degrees below zero.
Fred

Wondergirl,
That is true, but the oxygen still cannot be seen unless it is frozen into a liquid at hundreds of degrees below zero.
Fred
Aaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggghhhhh!!

Well...
Back to the topic...
LOL

My point is that people can believe whatever they want and there are a million points of view on many things especially religion.
BUT whether you believe Adam and Eve were the only ones created or not, whether the earth is 6,000 years old or billions, whether Jesus was the son of God, whether the Bible is true.
What you believe isn't going to make one dent in WHAT IS true.
Believe God created 229 people along with Adam and Eve but that is only your point of view if you do.

I explained in the post I posted the other day why I believe that God couldn't have created more than Adam and Eve or else it would make the rest of the Bible and Jesus purpose rather meaningless

N0help4u,
The points you made with that post are very good.
Fred

Genesis Chapter 5:1
1 this is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he man.
2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

Later it goes further to explain what I did mention earlier in my post. About others being here before us, before the Fall of man. (Angelic types ).

Genesis Chapter 6:4

There were giants in the earth in those days, and also after that, When the Sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which they WERE of OLD, men of renown.

Simple scripture study.

Yep real simple. Now do you want to PROVE that the giants in the land were there BEFORE Adam and Eve OR IN THAT day in Genesis chapter 6?

It says IN THAT day so in no way does it prove they were here before Adam and Eve.

Also if they were 'angelic beings' they would have to have been fallen angels. In Sodom and Gomarrah the godly angels were protected from the village because they would not have been pure if they woulda/coulda been with humans sexually.

If you guys want to REALLY argue about the technicallitys, you could say that god simply called ALL men adam, and ALL women eve. Couldn't we?

No I Don't believe this, just trying to make a point, that you can take the words of the bible ANY and ALL ways you want. But NO ONE will know the ABSOLUTE truth until we pass on and can ask our father ourselves.

Yeah then all the Adams and Eves would have to have eatten the 'forbidden fruit' in Genesis 2.

I believe the Bible when it says we are all descendents OF Adam and Eve.
Not multiple Adams and Eves.

I agree with that too nohelp :) I was just saying we could sit here and argue about it until the end of time and not have an answer until we are in heaven getting the answer from the SOURCE :P

jenniepepsi,
I think you are right about that.
Fred

Wondergirl agrees: Adam = earth ; Eve = mother

Adam means FIRST man,
adam means man

either can mean earth

so many adams were taken out of the earth?
so many adams had to have sinned in the beginning of Genesis 2.

Eve means the mother of ALL living.

From Ancient Hebrew Research Center - Home Page (http://www.ancient-hebrew.org)

(ADM - Adam)
We are all familiar with the name "Adam" as found in the book of Genesis, but what does it really mean? Let us begin by looking at its roots. This word/name is a child root derived from the parent דם meaning, "blood". By placing the letter א in front of the parent root, the child root אדם is formed and is related in meaning to דם (blood).

By examing a few other words derived from the child root אדם we can see a common meaning in them all. The Hebrew word אדםה (adamah) is the feminine form of אדם meaning "ground" (see Genesis 2:7). The word/name אדום (Edom) means "red". Each of these words have the common meaning of "red". Dam is the "red" blood, adamah is the "red" ground, edom is the color "red" and adam is the "red" man. There is one other connection between "adam" and "adamah" as seen in Genesis 2:7 which states that "the adam" was formed out of the "adamah".

In the ancient Hebrew world, a persons name was not simply an identifier but descriptive of one's character. As Adam was formed out of the ground, his name identifies his origins.

Exactly
An indepth study shows we were all from Adam and Eve through the earth, through blood, heritage, etc...
Boiling it down to one word or one phrase ends up diverting from the real depth of the meaning.
Actually that is how the devil tricked Eve.
Its called partial truth that is meant to deceive us.

Adam,
Thanks much for that.
Fred

exactly
an indepth study shows we were all from Adam and Eve through the earth, through blood, heritage, etc.....

Do you say we are all Israelites?

Deu 32:7-8 Remember the days of old, consider the years of many generations: ask thy father, and he will shew thee; thy elders, and they will tell thee. When the most High divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel.

sndbay,
Yes, through Jesus Christ, my Lord, we Christians are all Israelites.
So I believe.
Fred

sndbay,
Yes, through Jesus Christ, my Lord, we Christians are all Israelites.
So I believe.
Fred

Absolutely! Romans 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
John 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Do you say we are all Israelites?

Deu 32:7-8 Remember the days of old, consider the years of many generations: ask thy father, and he will shew thee; thy elders, and they will tell thee. When the most High divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel.

WERE Israelites.
The Bible says we (gentiles) were cut off and need grafted back in.

(Genesis 5:1-29) speaks of the generations of Adam directed to Noah. And of course Noah had three sons, Shem, Japheth and Ham (Genesis 5:32) This record family lineage from Adam spoke "only of his son Seth.." This goes to Noah generation (Genesis 6:9-10) continues in family lineage with Shem Japheth and Ham. We know at this time that God looked upon the earth and found it corrupted. God said all flesh was corrupted and was corrupting Noah's way of a perfect generation (Genesis 6:9 Genesis 6:12)

Then came the flood... Up to this point we knew Cain had been sent away and we know (God told satan refer: (Genesis 3:15) from the beginning that HE would put enmity between (satan's seed/spirit of evil) and (Eve's seed/spirit of God) So we know we have the division of good and evil that does exist.

However we do know that (Cain /seed or spirit of satan) was the known as the first murderer from the beginning, and his generation is spoken of in (John 8:44)
AND Satan's seed/evil spirit is also spoken in the JEWS actions refer: (Matthew 23:35-36) when Zacharias, who is John the Baptist father, and son of Barachias, was slain by the JEWS between the altar and temple.

*************

To remain on track, continue in the generation after the flood of Naoh (Genesis 10:1-32) which offers the divided nations on earth, known by generation in their nations. In the middle of this family lineage and noted in (Genesis 10:5) you will find the "Gentile generation" that began with Ham (Genesis 10:20) that would have us find importance in language spoken, their countries, and nations. This is a very important description if you would understand the heritage of countries, nations and language that God will further have written in the Word to destinguish each one from another.



WERE Israelites.
The Bible says we (gentiles) were cut off and need grafted back in.


I draw the importance on Gentiles because I trust you could better understand the refer of the Bible saying Gentiles were cut off and need grafted back in.
( It is only in the kingdom of grace that such a process, contracy to nation, can this be sucessful) Ham's son was cursed by Noah (Genesis 9:25) because Ham saw the nakedness of his father. (Genesis 9:22) One can only understand the truth of what is written in this by reference of KJV in translation or meaning in uncovered his father's nakedness. (Lev 20:11 And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.. KJV)

Ham actually had a son by his mother, who was his fourth son, Canaan that Noah cursed and made a servant to Shem (Genesis9:25-26 ) which was mentioned in an odd manner, showing Noah's sons that went forth from the ark, and then mentioned oddly among those sons is Ham's fourth son with distincive difference in being Ham's son . (Genesis 9:18)

**************

(Genesis 11:8 So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.) These are the generations of Shem (Genesis 11:10)

Through Noah's son Shem, came the generations of Terah, and Terah begat Abram, Nahor, and Haran; and Haran begat Lot. Then long after the beginning generation of Jocob, who is the son of Isaac, grandson of Abraham (Genesis25:26) God changed Jocob's name to Israel (Genesis 32:28) The 12 Tribes of Israel are of Jacob (Genesis 49:28)


All of this information as studied can show direction and distinguish the House of David as it continues. However I still find many questions in other human life that comes in contact with the Israelites. Where did they come from, the Egyptians, the Romans?

Such as Paul's hertiage as a JEW. He spoke of being born in Tarsus , a city in Cilicia, maritime province in the southeast of Asia Minor, boarding on Pamphylia in the west, Lycaonia and Cappadocia in the north and Syria in the east.

Tarsus was a major city in Cilicia and the birthplace and early home of Paul.( Acts 9:11; 21:39; 22:3) Even in the flourishing period of Greek history it was an important city. In the Roman civil wars, it sided with Caesar and on the occasion of a visit from him its name changed to Juliopolis. Augustus made it a free city. Its was renowned as a place of education under the early Roman emperors. Strabo compares it in this respect to Athens and Alexandria. Tarsus also was a place of much commerce. It was situated in a wild and fertile plain on the banks of the Cydnus

Act 22:3 I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, [and] taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day.

Gamalie was a Pharisee and celebrated doctor of the law, who gave prudent worldly advice in the Sanhedrin respecting the treatment of the followers of Jesus of Nazareth. Acts 5:34 (A.D.29.) We learn from Acts 22:3 that he was the preceptor of Paul. He is generally identified with the very celebrated Jewish doctor Gamaliel, grandson of Hillel, and who is referred to as authority in the Jewish Mishna.

Act 6:9 Then there arose certain of the synagogue, which is called the synagogue of the Libertines, and Cyrenians, and Alexandrians, and of them of Cilicia and of Asia, disputing with Stephen.

The Libertines denotes Jews (according to Philo) who had been made captives of the Romans under Pompey but were afterwards set free; and who although they had fixed their abode in Rome, had built at their own expense a synagogue at Jerusalem which they frequented when in that city, The name Libertines adhered to them to distinguish them from free born Jews who had subsequently taken up their residence at Rome. Evidence seems to have been discovered of the existence of a "synagogue of the Libertines" at Pompeii.

sndbay marvelious of you to lay out a time line for us but you have proven nothing but demonstrated that you fail to understand the length of time over which these events took place and the ability of the human race to multiply itself in a few generations. Your lack of understanding causes you to make false connections and assumptions and to ask silly questions such as where did the Romans come from. We know Roman history, We know much of Egyptian history. Civilisations established themselves in a few auspicious fertile places

Sndbay,
Thanks much for that.
Well done.
Fred

sndbay marvelious of you to lay out a time line for us but you have proven nothing but demonstrated that you fail to understand the the length of time over which these events took place and the ability of the human race to multiply itself in a a few generations.

Excuse me, but what I have laid out is what is written in scripture. If I have failed to lay out what is written then please tell me the correct demonstration. The time frame for these generations of nations are years and years, and it too is written if you cared to read additional facts in how long each lived. My main focus was to offer the Israelite nation, and the Gentile nation connection to Adam and Eve's beginning.



Your lack of understanding causes you to make false connections and assumptions and to ask silly questions such as where did the Romans come from.

Rather then point out your opinion of me, and what I have offered, why not offer what makes your opinon different by what is written in scripture. Tell me how the Romans came from Adam and the Egyptians for that matter?



We know Roman history, We know much of Egyptian history. Civilisations established themselves in a few auspicious fertile places

Connect the lineage to what is written in scripture?

I agree with Homesell. I have learned to accept the Bible at face value. That's part of trusting God completely. If He said it, then I believe it. He did say, "nothing was impossible for God."

Would we have trusted God as much if He had "filled in all the places." Why do we have to have all the answers. That is what makes our LIVING GOD different from all the other gods that are made from man. Evolutionists are busy trying to piece everything together to make their belief work for them. Every other belief has a beginning and end because it was written by man for man.

God who is the author of the Bible, clearly told Moses what He wanted us to know and thus it was written. It is up to us as Christians to accept it by faith. It also shows God that we believe Him even though we can't explain it.

At one time, I also had lots of questions about what was not "filled in" in the Bible. God had a way of telling me to "just let it go and Trust Me on this," which is what I did.

You guys have raised a lot of answers that a lot of Christians think about, but in the end, it remains the same. The Bible does not change and we will have to accept it as God wrote it, or try to fill in the "gaps" ourselves which can cause confusion. Besides there is nothing wrong with not being able to explain everything in the Bible.

Remember God's ways and thoughts are higher than ours. His ways are always right. He expects us to have "blind Faith." We can't explain how he made man from dust, but we have to accept that too. RNRG

Sndbay,

I agree absolutely. I meant that to be understood in what I wrote. I believe the Bible should be a part of our daily life. That is one of the ways that God speaks to us. If we neglect to study it and seek guidance from God, then we leave ourselves vulnerable to every old and "new" thing that the world has to offer.

I only posted to point out that "I" have to be settled on what I believe so that when I share with others I don't cause them confusion. There is enough of that already. But yes, I do agree with you about Scripture. It is "food" for our Spiritual bodies.

God's Words are precious and should be handled so. There are so many people against God that I try to share His word with as much clarity as possible (This requires my dependence on the Holy Spirit to give me the words that they need to hear.) The "gaps" in the Bible have only caused more "reason" for the non-believers to not accept God. So, I try to practice I Peter 3:5 But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, 16keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander. Rita

Sndbay Here again we have a false premise. You want me to connect the Romans and the Egyptians to Adam and Eve for you, but they have the same connection as all of us, through Noah.

There was obviously a creation before the Flood and one after, which I refer to as a re-creation. There could have been more than this last re-creation also.
Something here I found on the web. I look for many different sources and viewpoints and try to piece together some sort of picture. I seek the truth...

"Jeremiah 4:23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light. 24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly. 25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled. 26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger. 27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end. 28 For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black; because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.

If this previous creation did not include the strange collection of fauna and flora, which included dinosaurs clearly evidenced in the geological record, our biosphere is at least the third creation. This would account for the existence of and validate the histories of many cultures going back many thousands of years before the accepted creation "timeline", and anomalous archeological finds known as "out of place artifacts".

"Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. It is not clear whether this refers to the past or present creation, but does provide clarification in either case."

Genesis 1:2 says the earth was without form and void.
What you are referring to is called the gap theory and I do believe it because of the otherwise unexplainable things you mentioned, the pyramids and some things mentioned in the Bible.

BUT I do not believe man lived in the pre existing earths. Man could not have came from that existence to this creation.

We each believe what we want too. Like I said, I seek truth, no matter if I like what I find...
Ancient Aircraft - Crystalinks (http://www.crystalinks.com/ancientaircraft.html)

We can each believe what we like but we can't all be believing the truth because truth can not fit into what we each wish to believe otherwise it would be part truths

Yep. I bet Ezekiel had a time with the truth he witnessed first hand...

Yeah that's true.

sndbay,
I hope he can do that.
Fred

(Genesis 5:1-29) speaks of the generations of Adam directed to Noah. And of course Noah had three sons, Shem, Japheth and Ham (Genesis 5:32) This record family lineage from Adam spoke "only of his son Seth.." This goes to Noah generation (Genesis 6:9-10) continues in family lineage with Shem Japheth and Ham. We know at this time that God looked upon the earth and found it corrupted. God said all flesh was corrupted and was corrupting Noah's way of a perfect generation (Genesis 6:9 Genesis 6:12)

Then came the flood... Up to this point we knew Cain had been sent away and we know (God told satan refer: (Genesis 3:15) from the beginning that HE would put enmity between (satan's seed/spirit of evil) and (Eve's seed/spirit of God) So we know we have the division of good and evil that does exist.

However we do know that (Cain /seed or spirit of satan) was the known as the first murderer from the beginning, and his generation is spoken of in (John 8:44)
AND Satan's seed/evil spirit is also spoken in the JEWS actions refer: (Matthew 23:35-36) when Zacharias, who is John the Baptist father, and son of Barachias, was slain by the JEWS between the altar and temple.

*************

To remain on track, continue in the generation after the flood of Naoh (Genesis 10:1-32) which offers the divided nations on earth, known by generation in their nations. In the middle of this family lineage and noted in (Genesis 10:5) you will find the "Gentile generation" that began with Ham (Genesis 10:20) that would have us find importance in language spoken, their countries, and nations. This is a very important description if you would understand the heritage of countries, nations and language that God will further have written in the Word to destinguish each one from another.





I draw the importance on Gentiles because I trust you could better understand the refer of the Bible saying Gentiles were cut off and need grafted back in.
( It is only in the kingdom of grace that such a process, contracy to nation, can this be sucessful) Ham's son was cursed by Noah (Genesis 9:25) because Ham saw the nakedness of his father. (Genesis 9:22) One can only understand the truth of what is written in this by reference of KJV in translation or meaning in uncovered his father's nakedness. (Lev 20:11 And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.. KJV)

Ham actually had a son by his mother, who was his fourth son, Canaan that Noah cursed and made a servant to Shem (Genesis9:25-26 ) which was mentioned in an odd manner, showing Noah's sons that went forth from the ark, and then mentioned oddly among those sons is Ham's fourth son with distincive difference in being Ham's son . (Genesis 9:18)

**************

(Genesis 11:8 So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.) These are the generations of Shem (Genesis 11:10)

Through Noah's son Shem, came the generations of Terah, and Terah begat Abram, Nahor, and Haran; and Haran begat Lot. Then long after the beginning generation of Jocob, who is the son of Isaac, grandson of Abraham (Genesis25:26) God changed Jocob's name to Israel (Genesis 32:28) The 12 Tribes of Israel are of Jacob (Genesis 49:28)


All of this information as studied can show direction and distinguish the House of David as it continues. However I still find many questions in other human life that comes in contact with the Israelites. Where did they come from, the Egyptians, the Romans?

Such as Paul's hertiage as a JEW. He spoke of being born in Tarsus , a city in Cilicia, maritime province in the southeast of Asia Minor, boarding on Pamphylia in the west, Lycaonia and Cappadocia in the north and Syria in the east.

Tarsus was a major city in Cilicia and the birthplace and early home of Paul.( Acts 9:11; 21:39; 22:3) Even in the flourishing period of Greek history it was an important city. In the Roman civil wars, it sided with Caesar and on the occasion of a visit from him its name changed to Juliopolis. Augustus made it a free city. Its was renowned as a place of education under the early Roman emperors. Strabo compares it in this respect to Athens and Alexandria. Tarsus also was a place of much commerce. It was situated in a wild and fertile plain on the banks of the Cydnus

Act 22:3 I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, [and] taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day.

Gamalie was a Pharisee and celebrated doctor of the law, who gave prudent worldly advice in the Sanhedrin respecting the treatment of the followers of Jesus of Nazareth. Acts 5:34 (A.D.29.) We learn from Acts 22:3 that he was the preceptor of Paul. He is generally identified with the very celebrated Jewish doctor Gamaliel, grandson of Hillel, and who is referred to as authority in the Jewish Mishna.

Act 6:9 Then there arose certain of the synagogue, which is called the synagogue of the Libertines, and Cyrenians, and Alexandrians, and of them of Cilicia and of Asia, disputing with Stephen.

The Libertines denotes Jews (according to Philo) who had been made captives of the Romans under Pompey but were afterwards set free; and who although they had fixed their abode in Rome, had built at their own expense a synagogue at Jerusalem which they frequented when in that city, The name Libertines adhered to them to distinguish them from free born Jews who had subsequently taken up their residence at Rome. Evidence seems to have been discovered of the existence of a "synagogue of the Libertines" at Pompeii.

EXACTLY what I am saying so that DOES prove that the gentiles were cut off instead of
Another people being here on earth along with Adam and Eve. I do not notice any proof that there were others that were not offsorings of Adam and Eve in what you said.

EXACTLY what I am saying so that DOES prove that the gentiles were cut off instead of
another people being here on earth along with Adam and Eve. I do not notice any proof that there were others that were not offsorings of Adam and Eve in what you said.

There are to many unanswered questions to suggest either way. (Genesis 2:11) speaks of the first. Does this mean the first man which is Adam was place in this area? Possibly I think it could.. (Genesis 2:4) suggests "these" noted to plural, are the generations. It is possible the males and females created on the sixth day are being placed in locations of land, starting with first Adam and all that his lineage would mean to us? What would you say is possible?

What I have gathered in respect to what is written in evidence of Adam and Eve is that the flood of Noah shows 8 souls were saved. (confirmed) as being 8 souls as an essence which differs from the body and is not dissolved by death (1 Peter 3:20)

Whether there were or were not others men and woman in the beginning, God had washed the path clean for the 8 souls. Would you agree?

Whether these 8 souls were all considered Seth's lineage or ancestry from Adam is questionable, because it is not told from where the wives came.

What can be distinguished is that 2 of the souls did become beguiled by evil, and this confirms the begotten man of flesh that we all are, must be begotten again in Christ to live righteously unto life eternal.

The lineage of the Israelites is easily followed in scripture, and the Gentiles are distinguished. But there are questions in how the Kenite exists from which was the tribe Moses wife was said to have come from.

If you do a search on Kenite (7014) translated from hebrew word "Qayin" it means eldest son of Adam and Eve and the first murderer having murdered his brother Abel.. AND the tribe from which the father-in-law of Moses was a member and which lived in the area between southern Palestine and the mountains of Sinai..

How is this possible?

This would be why Aaron was against Moses being married to her.

So I don't suggest that we can fully know all the truth of man and their lineage except that the Israelite tribes would distinguish the lineage of David (Key of David) being the hertiage of Christ in HIS (supposed father Joseph) .. presenting Jesus " King of Kings "
And perhap to much importance is given to ourselves as man, as we guess at where we came from. We instead should teach the more important facts and understanding of Jesus on earth as man and how God's plan was to send us HIS son. (The Key of David)

To me it wouldn't make sense that more than Adam and Eve were created
I posted this but doesn't seem like anybody has ran across it yet.

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/religious-discussions/4-sndbay-others-earth-besides-adam-eve-373109.html

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/religious-discussions/4-sndbay-others-earth-besides-adam-eve-373109.html

Sorry had not read that... And it is not exact as to what I have said. The scripture verse (Genesis 1:27) will always be (So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them) The meaning of this is showing the reference of God's image of righteousness which God created us to be, and God is who created male and female.

Scripture later goes on to say in (Genesis 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day)

Later again scripture does say the first (Genesis 2:11) which was a location of land in that was destinguished as location of the first man was place or given. And I trust this was Adam placed in the garden of Eden. And it does continue with Adam and Eve there on.

However my last posting will show what I accept as being confirmed and what can only be presumptively suggested. Who is to say the second male was not placed in a second location? What was important is the first in which the Key of David would come and in which satan obviously would first beguilded and try to corrupt the hertiage of Jesus.

(Genesis 1:27) will always be (So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them)

You can do this too. Just get an image of something you want to create like a rainbow that speaks or something. See it? This is what I mean. I read something one way and sure enough there will be others who agree it says this or that or something else.

my last posting will show what I accept as being confirmed and what can only be presumptively suggested. Who is to say the second male was not placed in a second location? What was important is the first in which the Key of David would come and in which satan obviously would first beguilded and try to corrupt the hertiage of Jesus.

I can not follow ''my last posting will show what I accept as being confirmed and what can only be presumptively suggested'' sounds like a contradition.
I take Genesis 2 as reaffirming Genesis one and Adam is that man.
If there were 2 or more men or two or more women it does not add up with the rest of scripture.

N0help4u,
Yes, I agree that it does not add up to what Scripture says.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

I can not follow ''my last posting will show what I accept as being confirmed and what can only be presumptively suggested'' sounds like a contradition.
I take Genesis 2 as reaffirming Genesis one and Adam is that man.
If there were 2 or more men or two or more women it does not add up with the rest of scripture.

Could you understand it better if you were to see the name Adam as meaning male human being.

Adam is reference throughtout scripture with 3 identies

1> 201 ( human being) this is not a name but just that human man as in male = adam
2> 221 (first man) the first located by land and "red" meaning perhaps skin color or blood (natural man)
3> 76 ( red earth) human being made by the red earth of his location, the first man of parent in a whole human family

We see throughtout scripture that the chosen people Israelites(nation, generation of family) came in contact with others not of their own generations or nation. Does this suggest that there was more Adam's = human being that would be created by God?

I agree that this one human man placed in the garden was given a wife so he was not alone. And I acknowledge this wife to be name by this human being, as Eve the mother of all living. Because it would be through her generations and nation of this family, it is written: For as in (Adam 76) all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Throughout scripture people and nations got divided, made into new nations and so forth but they are trace back to Adam and Eve as the first parents.

Throughout scripture people and nations got divided, made into new nations and so forth but they are trace back to Adam and Eve as the first parents.

I have to disagree and name just a few in question. If you can tell me how they trace back to Adam and Eve thr Seth as the Israelites .. please do..

Rephaims (Isa 17:5 - 1 Ch 14:9) also known as gaints

Moabites
Ashdodites
Phoenicians
Ammonites
Zamzummims

And this does not include what tends to be Kenites who trace back to Cain, and that would appear to be impossible because of the flood. (Moses wife and father's tribe)

The Canaanites would trace back to Canaan which was Ham's 4th son given birth through the nukeness of Noah's wife, and he was cursed by Noah (Genesis 9:22)

In scripture (Genesis 12:1-3) God told Abraham to leave his kindred, and go out of the country from his father. The promise to make him a great nation and increase his seed to that compared to the dust of the earth. God also said I will bless them that bless you and curse those that curse you. Making all families of the earth blessed. So would you think family other then his kindred are other then Adam to Seth lineage?

Okay then when the flood happened were all these people that you are asking about here before and after the flood?

Moabites trace back to Lot I do believe.
I am not sure of the others
So where do you say they originate back to?

Also
With your theory of more than Adam and Eve in the beginning, after Noahs ark there were only the few on the ark left so how did these others in Genesis 1 continue to repopulate the nations if only a few were left after the flood?

And what do you do with all the verses like this?
Acts 17:26, Paul states that the God Who made the world 'hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth.
http://www.biblestudymanuals.net/descendants.htm


I'll explain how I believe the giants were here some other time.

sndbay,
I have to agree with noHelp4u.
Adam and Eve are the first parents of the human race.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Okay then when the flood happened were all these people that you are asking about here before and after the flood?

Moabites trace back to Lot I do believe.
I am not sure of the others
so where do you say they originate back to?

Also
with your theory of more than Adam and Eve in the beginning, after Noahs ark there were only the few on the ark left so how did these others in Genesis 1 continue to repopulate the nations if only a few were left after the flood?

And what do you do with all the verses like this?
Acts 17:26, Paul states that the God Who made the world 'hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth.
BIBLE STUDY MANUALS: ADAM AND EVE'S DESCENDANTS (http://www.biblestudymanuals.net/descendants.htm)


I'll explain how I believe the giants were here some other time.

You want to know how a few people repopulated the Earth. No sex education here but there were no television sets then. Look at the story of the Israelites. From 70 who went down to Egypt with Jacob up to 3,500,000 moved out 430 years later. It isn't a very long stretch to see how the Earth was repopulated.

In my own life time the population of my nation has gone from 6,000,000 to 22,000,000, the population of the world has gone from 3 Billion to over 6 Billion. If World population doubles every 50 years how many generations does it take? In 20 generations of people just having two children and we know they had many more, you get to six million, so a couple of thousand years and you are out of space on the planet. Just as well we have wars and pestilence

Now Lot was Abraham's cousin and so he traces back to Noah through that line

Okay then when the flood happened were all these people that you are asking about here before and after the flood?

Moabites trace back to Lot I do believe.
I am not sure of the others
so where do you say they originate back to?

Also
with your theory of more than Adam and Eve in the beginning, after Noahs ark there were only the few on the ark left so how did these others in Genesis 1 continue to repopulate the nations if only a few were left after the flood?



All Good Questions... The facts are not clear on when or where these came from. However I know Cain's lineage was before the flood, and yet there are Kenites that are shown in connection to Moses.



Through Noah's son Shem, came the generations of Terah, and Terah begat Abram, Nahor, and Haran; and Haran begat Lot. Then long after the beginning generation of Jocob, who is the son of Isaac, grandson of Abraham (Genesis25:26) God changed Jocob's name to Israel (Genesis 32:28) The 12 Tribes of Israel are of Jacob (Genesis 49:28)


So we know facts concerning the Irsaelites from Adam.. Seth...continued to Noah.. then Shem.

And we know facts concerning the Gentiles from Adam.. Seth..continued to Noah.. then Ham.

Noah's third known son was Japheth who according to scripture (Genesis 9:2) Japheth would remain within the tents of Shem with the promise in being enlarged.

Theses generation from Adam are shown confirmed in (1 Ch 1:1-4) and scriture does go on to confirm each lineage of Noah's 3 son.




And what do you do with all the verses like this?
Acts 17:26, Paul states that the God Who made the world 'hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth.

I explained that on your other thread under religious discussion. The idea of one blood would mean human or natural blood.(begotton of man)




I'll explain how I believe the giants were here some other time.

No need they are a good example of what was not from Adam Seth or Noah.. I realize the fallen angels had everything to do with the gaints known as Rephaims

I also think the Ammonites might be descended from Lot through Ben-ammi and were mentioned in Deu 2:20 which also reference the Zamzummims. Yet they may be part of the Rephaims or gaints descendants. Not sure...

sndbay,
I have to agree with noHelp4u.
Adam and Eve are the first parents of the human race.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Fred, I could almost agree with it, if the Ashdodites Phoenicians Ammonites Zamzummims are not considered human race.

From what lineage did the Egyptians pagan's come?

You want to know how a few people repopulated the Earth. No sex education here but there were no television sets then. Look at the story of the Israelites. from 70 who went down to Egypt with Jacob up to 3,500,000 moved out 430 years later. It isn't a very long stretch to see how the Earth was repopulated.

In my own life time the population of my nation has gone from 6,000,000 to 22,000,000, the population of the world has gone from 3 Billion to over 6 Billion. If World population doubles every 50 years how many generations does it take? in 20 generations of people just having two children and we know they had many more, you get to six million, so a couple of thousand years and you are out of space on the planet. just as well we have wars and pestilence

Now Lot was Abraham's cousin and so he traces back to Noah through that line

NO Paraclete
That is not what I am saying
Sndby says that not all decended from Adam and Eve. That there were other nations or whatever. I want to know where all the different nations came from before and after the flood if we didn't decend from Adam and Eve

I explained that on your other thread under religious discussion. The idea of one blood would mean human or natural blood.(begotton of man)


And I explained how ''OTHER blood" would not have had the curse of Adam and Eve


COLOR="indigo"]No need they are a good example of what was not from Adam Seth or Noah.. I realize the fallen angels had everything to do with the gaints known as Rephaims

AGREED


I also think the Ammonites might be descended from Lot through Ben-ammi and were mentioned in Deu 2:20 which also reference the Zamzummims. Yet they may be part of the Rephaims or gaints descendants. Not sure...


AGREED

And I explained how ''OTHER blood" would not have had the curse of Adam and Eve


Other blood? That is what kind of blood, other then human? Even animals have red blood..

Genesis 1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

Genesis 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that [it was] good.

.
YOu know what I mean!
If there were more than Adam and Eve and they did not sin then their blood line could not have been under the curse. By other blood as opposed to one blood as you are suggesting I mean they would have a different heritage from Adam and Eve and not under the curse.

sndbay,
I have no idea from where the Egyptians came unless there were from Ham.
P{eace and kindness,
Fred.

sndbay,
I have no idea from where the Egyptians came unless there were from Ham.
P{eace and kindness,
Fred.

Fred, your honesty is a valued feature in truth.

When God sent Abraham out from his kindred and his father's house we are told in scripture he headed into the land of Canaan refer: (Genesis 12:5)
Genesis 12:5 And Abram took Sarai his wife, and Lot his brother's son, and all their substance that they had gathered, and the souls that they had gotten in Haran; and they went forth to go into the land of Canaan; and into the land of Canaan they came.
**********

Canaan was the (lowland), relative to Ham and the progenitor of Phoemicians. And various nations who were located in the seacoat of Palestine. Canaan was the descendants called Canaanites, The Poeni or Phoenicia. (they spoke hebrew tongue)
In (Zeph 2:5) the southern area was relative to the Cherethites, who were Gentiles, and again showing the lineage to Ham. (remember these were to be servants to the lineage to the house of David because of the curse Noah issued to Ham's son Canaan )

In the journey Abraham passed through Sichem to a plain known as Moreh where the Canaanites were refer: (Genesis 12:6)

East was Bethel = Border of the tribe of Benjamin south of Judah.
West Hai was the city of Ammonites.
South was Egypt where the Egyptains were, and the land had it's name known by the son of Ham , Mizraim.

Keep in mind 2 tribes (Benjamin and Judah) were divided from the 10 tribe known as Israelites.

Take note to refer: Deu 2:20-23 That also was accounted a land of giants: giants dwelt therein in old time; and the Ammonites call them Zamzummims; A people great, and many, and tall, as the Anakims; but the LORD destroyed them before them; and they succeeded them, and dwelt in their stead: As he did to the children of Esau, which dwelt in Seir, when he destroyed the Horims from before them; and they succeeded them, and dwelt in their stead even unto this day: And the Avims which dwelt in Hazerim, [even] unto Azzah, the Caphtorims, which came forth out of Caphtor, destroyed them, and dwelt in their stead.)

sndbay, Thanks much for putting that together so understandably.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Fred can you understand that, it confuses the timelines talking about two of the tribes in the same context as Abraham

paraclete,
Yes, I can.
But it is clear to me that several different peoples came from the lineage of Abraham.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

But it is clear to me that several different peoples came from the lineage of Abraham.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

What is meant when you speak of different people? and what different people? Do you mean later in years when David's weakness was in strange women?

Abraham's lineage was from the generations of Shem. These would be God's chosen people, Israelites.

Post #67



(Genesis 11:8 So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.) These are the generations of Shem (Genesis 11:10)

Through Noah's son Shem, came the generations of Terah, and Terah begat Abram, Nahor, and Haran; and Haran begat Lot. Then long after continued the generation of Jacob, who is the son of Isaac, grandson of Abraham (Genesis25:26) God changed Jocob's name to Israel (Genesis 32:28) The 12 Tribes of Israel are of Jacob (Genesis 49:28)

.

sndbay,
The lineage of Abraham is several thousand years long and complex with many marriages.
{Peace and kindness,
Fred

Yeah he had at least two different lineages from Hagar and Sara.

N0help4u,
Yes that is true, plus those farther down the line from those two women.
Fred

yeah he had at least two different lineages from Hagar and Sara.

Yep the generations of Ishmael from the maid Hagar and Abraham (Genesis 25:12)


Genesis 25:16 These are the sons of Ishmael, and these are their names, by their towns, and by their castles; twelve princes according to their nations.

Yep the generations of Ishmael from the maid Hagar and Abraham (Genesis 25:12)


Genesis 25:16 These are the sons of Ishmael, and these are their names, by their towns, and by their castles; twelve princes according to their nations.

Biblical Historian tell us that the lineage of Ishmael are Muslims.

Triund,
You are right although Ishmael was a son of Abraham
Fred

Biblical Historian tell us that the lineage of Ishmael are Muslims.

I trust it was his 7th son, Dumah who is credited as being the founder of the Ishmaelite.
The sons were:

Ishmael
Nebajoth (people called Nabateans)
Kedar
Adbeel
Mibsam (family Simeon)
Mishma
Dumah (founder of Ishmaelite)
Massa
Hador
Tema
Jetur
Naphish
Kedemah

Please tell us more of the lineage if you will and please refer: scripture.

I trust it was his 7th son, Dumah who is credited as being the founder of the Ishmaelite.
The sons were:

Ishmael
Nebajoth (people called Nabateans)
Kedar
Adbeel
Mibsam (family Simeon)
Mishma
Dumah (founder of Ishmaelite)
Massa
Hador
Tema
Jetur
Naphish
Kedemah

Please tell us more of the lineage if you will and please refer: scripture.

Thanks for making it more specific. I had come to know about this from my Uncle. He is a well read man. I did not go in detail with him on this.

Today whatever we know about the Bible and Jesus is also from some historians who have been very faithful and true to our Lord God and brought the facts to people. There is also lot of bluff around, but all historians are not crooks. About a decade ago there was a main article in Time Magazine on Abraham as father of Jews, Christians and Muslims. Wish I had preserved that magazine. I wonder if anybody has read that article.

Thanks for making it more specific. I had come to know about this from my Uncle. He is a well read man. I did not go in detail with him on this.

I find it all interesting, and enjoy more in depth study on the nations, tribes, and descendant of Adam and Eve.



Today whatever we know about the Bible and Jesus is also from some historians who have been very faithful and true to our Lord God and brought the facts to people. There is also lot of bluff around, but all historians are not crooks. About a decade ago there was a main article in Time Magazine on Abraham as father of Jews, Christians and Muslims. Wish I had preserved that magazine. I wonder if anybody has read that article.

I would like to view details on the kinship of The Jews, separate from the Christians.

In scripture refer of (Acts 24:5 For we have found this man a pestilent fellow, and a mover of sedition among all the Jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes) This is speaking of Paul , who was born a Jew (Acts 22:3)

It was God's intention to have HIS begotten Son, Jesus, born into a certain tribe by HIS birth being in Bethlemhem of Judaea (in a narrower sense, to the southern portion of Palestine lying on this side of the Jordan and the Dead Sea, to distinguish it from Samaria, Galilee, Peraea, and Idumaea) And it is written Christ was born as King of the Jews ](Matthew 1:2) remaining relative to the House of David... So Jesus was registered and born within the Jewish nation but was also separate from that as a Christian called a Nazarene.

A Jew is one born of the kingdom of Judah ( 2 Kings 16:6 - 25:25) and in the later Hebrew, after the carry away of the 10 tribes , it was applied to all Israelites. (Jer 32:12 - 38:19 - 34:9 )

The Pharisaios sert seems to have started after the Jewish exile.. They recognised in oral tradition a standard of belief and life. They sought for distinction and praise by outward observance of external rites and by outward forms of piety, and such as ceremonial washings, fastings, and prayers.

And when we read that which was of Apostle John in his day he looked upon the Jew as a body of men hostile to Christainity, with whom he had come to see that both he and all true Christians had nothing in common as respects to religious matters, even in his record of life of Jesus not only himself makes a distinction between the Jews and Jesus, but ascibes to Jesus and his apostles language in which they distinction themselves from the Jews, as though the later time frame reference: ( John 11:8) sprang from an alien race. John spoke of how opposed to his divine Master, were the rulers, priests, members of Sanhedrin, Pharisees, and never did John hesitate to tell of the whole nation's hatred toward Jesus.

Facts and record for the benefit of all of us to understand what can appear as part of life, may be sown in by deception.




Did anybody read any commentary or any book on males and females created before Adam? Who were these man and woman? Is there any mention of these people, other than when Cain was given a mark to protect him from that "every one that findeth me shall slay me"(Genesis 4:14)?

This question is definite interesting when we know that Cain's descendants are the Kenites, and the Kenites are spoken of after the flood of Noah as being present as Moses wife was a Kenite. The tribe of Moses, father-in-law were all Kenites.

sndbay,
Thanks much for that.
Fred