If jesus christ is the only way as the bible says. What is the fate of millions of people born into other religions as it seems thatmost peoples beliefs are as a result of the fact that they were born into a particular faith and their parents thought them to follow that faith?

if jesus christ is the only way as the bible says. What is the fate of millions of people born into other religions as it seems thatmost peoples beliefs are as a result of the fact that they were born into a particular faith and thier parents thought them to follow that faith?
Do you think that God would punish other people for being in a faith that is different? Is that a loving and forgiving God?

That's why our GOD in unique he loves and cherishes everybody no matter your religion and faith.

While God is loving, that he why he gave man a choice and did not just destroy all of mankind when he could have.

And man has choices, so the fate of all of those that reject Christ will be that they will not enter into heaven.

Christianity does not allow those that do not accept Christ a place in God's kingdom.


While he is loving his has his strict rules that also has to be followed, the old testment is not done away with, and too many people who are even Christain forget the punishment that God does give for not following his word.

All mankind by its very nature does not deserve anything from God except punishment, no one is "good" enough for God. So he is loving by even allowing us a chance to be saved

While God is loving, that he why he gave man a choice and did not just destroy all of mankind when he could have.

And man has choices, so the fate of all of those that reject Christ will be that they will not enter into heaven.

Christianity does not allow those that do not accept Christ a place in God's kingdom.


while he is loving his has his strict rules that also has to be followed, the old testment is not done away with, and too many people who are even Christain forget the punishment that God does give for not following his word.

All mankind by its very nature does not deserve anything from God except punishment, no one is "good" enough for God. So he is loving by even allowing us a chance to be saved

So, back to the poster's question, are you saying that if these people who were born into other faith/religion/cultures, etc... do not eventually follow God, that they will not be saved into Heaven when they die?

I like this question, because I often wonder myself. I suppose that is why there are missionaries and people like that who go around the world to speak of God-but still-what is the real truth behind all of this?

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Romans 6:23)



It all depends on the reason why a person rejects Jesus.
If the person knows in his heart that the Ransom sacrifice is valid and still rejects it, then his losing out on life is his own choice. If a person rejects it because he honestly believes Jesus is not the only way to a good relationship with God, then that person will be given a chance in the new order of things to see for himself that Jesus is indeed the way to eternal life. Then and only then will the person's rejection be taken as a sign that he has chosen death instead of life.

If a person never hears about the free gift of salvation through Jesus, I believe they will be given the opportunity to make the choice. God is not going to hold someone responsible who never heard the good news. However, Jesus is the only way to God the Father.

Some don't worry about fate, rather they strive on being good people and do good things during their lives here on earth. You can find a lot of happiness this way. If you have had a difficult life or have lived through traumatic moments then you may find that you need that extra help, otherwise enjoy yourself, challenge yourself, surround yourself with nice people.

One can not be concerned about their destiny and prides themselves with being a good person and doing good. However, good works do not equal salvation. And how can someone say others may have had a hard life or tragedies when their own life is not even over?

Now to the OP, I caught a few articles about this perennial question. As this one:
http://www.gotquestions.org/never-heard.html

I studied to become Christian and objected to the "only" part too. In fact I was baptised by a generous priest who allowed me to leave the word "only" out and the hallabaloo that followed with that caused me to leave the church and the faith. I understand now what he did was wrong but it doesn't make the only concept right, only right for that religion. That is an important distinction to make.

I believe this "only" business is a marketing tactic cooked up long long ago by humans who wanted to hardsell their particular religious product. No God who made us all would santion that, frankly. How could he?

So maybe its not God who says that...

The other marketing tactic I believe is used (and is the subject on a recent threads too and here it is (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/religion/what-went-wrong-39255.html)) is what happens after we die.

One can not be concerned about their destiny and prides themself with being a good person and doing good.
I'm not sure what this sentence is saying but suffice it to say that destiny and doing good are not mutually exclusive of course.


However, good works do not equal salvation. That's right. Being a good person is its own reward.

And how can someone say others may have had a hard life or tragedies when their own life is not even over?
I assumed the "up to now" was understood since I can't see the future. I agree that a pessimistic view on life and one's own future would push one to hope that a higher being watches over them.

All mankind by its very nature does not deserve anything from God except punishment, no one is "good" enough for God. So he is loving by even allowing us a chance to be saved
Whoa Nellie! This paints us in a pretty bad light. It also paints God as kind of stuck up, or arrogant or well, at the very least puts some sort of negative human attribute on the One who is all perfect. Which does not make sense to me?


One can not be concerned about their destiny and prides themself with being a good person and doing good. However, good works do not equal salvation.
As for destiny, I am very concerned about my destiny and the world's destiny and everyone in it too. Without exception. It does not take being of a faith or being of any particular faith to be that. And when my fate and the world's fate is one, good works does equate salvation and that is how it all works too, I believe. That any religion attempts to neatly separate itself from the world, when its not in reality separated, is THE GROSSEST form of denial I have ever encountered. It held its ground as true when the world was unable to communicate as easily as we do now. I think people are beginning to figure this denial= lie out at the same pace as how small the world is becoming.

Notice how no one attempts to actually answer this question. All they can do is spew a bunch of relious jargon at you.

And what of the 5 month old baby that died of birth complications? He didn't accept Jesus into his heart... where will his soul be for eternity? And don't try to answer with the old "Do you really think God would allow a baby to go to Hell?" Because if none of us deseve anything but punishment as it is, then obviously YES... God WOULD allow a baby to spend eternity in Hell, right?

All I can say, NK is that you are wrong to say that I have a pessimistic outlook on life. And I can easily say the same of you, since I do not know you either. All I'll refer to is one fact I can tell, and that is that you have heard the Gospel. The rest is your free will to do what you will with it.

Val, I'm sorry, there's just too much dialogue for me to understand your posts sometimes. I can appreciate your contributions, but maybe it's the Brooklynite in me that is happy just getting the point, or getting to the point, but I can't get around too much analysis in between.
I have a hard time with words. I really just express myself singing and playing guitar- although these days it's the Casio keyboard.
So forgive me. I'm hearing your point and I do hope you come back to the Faith.

Love & Peace to all. :)

Pps- DrJizzle- in my prevous link there is an explanation about babies & the handicapped.

Val, I'm sorry, there's just too much dialogue for me to understand your posts sometimes. I can appreciate your contributions, but maybe it's the Brooklynite in me that is happy just getting the point, or getting to the point, but I can't get around too much analysis in between. I have a hard time with words. I really just express myself singing and playing guitar- although these days it's the Casio keyboard. So forgive me. I'm hearing your point and I do hope you come back to the Faith.
I'm sorry Pumpkin, I'm know logic is hard to follow sometimes. I was suggesting that I won't be back to the faith anytime soon, I think. But thanks for the hope you offered. That was nice.

As a intellectual dilemma, I was also making a point that religion likes to claim things "of the world" are bad, like the "flesh" is bad but funny thing is... religion is one of the things "of the world" and its propogated by the "flesh", people. Is that any clearer? Maybe? Maybe not?

Well, maybe it's better to look at it as Spirituality rather than Religion.

Consider Scripture - Galatians 5:24-25- Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. Galatians 5:19- The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality,impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, self ambition, dissentions, factions and envy, drunkenness, orgies and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Sinful nature can also mean "the flesh" in many instances.

This world is under the sway of the evil one. We are mostly referring to the influences of this world, and not the fact that there isn't beauty, love and goodness in it to be enjoyed.
Consider another Scripture- Romans 12:2- And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

The Good News is that Jesus overcame this world. John 16:33-"I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world."

While it is merely a glimpse of the Bible, we do have descriptions of the "flesh" and of the "world" that is really not that hard to understand, it just takes some time I guess to understand spiritual truths. It's not just intellectually, it involves one's heart. (and will also)

Notice how no one attempts to actually answer this question. All they can do is spew a bunch of relious jargon at you.

And what of the 5 month old baby that died of birth complications?? He didnt accept Jesus into his heart... where will his soul be for eternity? And dont try to answer with the old "Do you really think God would allow a baby to go to Hell?" Because if none of us deseve anything but punishment as it is, then obviously YES... God WOULD allow a baby to spend eternity in Hell, right??


All of us deserve a chance to make an informed decision in relation to the Ransom sacrifice.

The refusal to accept Jesus Ransom results in death only if the decision is an informed decision not if it is an involuntary one based on ignorance or lack of knowledge or the result of being duped via socialization-or inability to choose due to mental deficiency.
If indeed there are those who have died without having had the opportunity to make a truly informed decision then they will be resurrected and provisions will be made for their care until they are ready to make an informed decision in reference to the Ransom sacrifice.

BTW
What was meant by the other poster who said that we are inherently undeserving is that we cannot earn salvation via our conduct alone and that our condition is one requiring a Ransom sacrifice. Otherwise our undeserving condition cannot be remeddied and eternal death will follow.

I'm 34 years old and I have not been a Christian all of my life although I was raised in a Christian home. I went to Christian school, and am happy to say I have rededicated my life to the Lord. Here's the answer to the question: Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. No man cometh unto the Father except through HIM-Jesus. It's simple. Look, God has rules, we as man cannot bend them. People born into other religions have the opportunity to hear the Truth. Those that do not I'm sure God has that covered. As far as babies going to Hell and little children, come on! That's not the God I serve. We have an age of accountability. It is different for everyone. A 12 year old may be different than a 10 year old as far as knowing right from wrong. The important thing to know is that you have to make the decision for yourself. No one can do it for you. The bible also says that if anyone tries to enter by any other way but through Jesus he is a thief and a robber. He didn't die to give us a multiple choice way into Heaven. He died to be the only way. Read the Word of God for yourself. King James, NIV, there are a lot. Ask Him to show you. He still talks to people. You don't have to be Isaiah, Moses, or Jacob. I think the hardest thing right now for people to believe is the simplest of ways. Everything has to be NEW and the latest trend. Start by believing that He is, and he will take you into the deepest parts of who that is. Again, He is the ONLY Way. In the end, we'll all realize it, won't we? Thanks for allowing me to answer, I hope it helped.

The refusal to accept Jesus Ransom results in death only if the decision is an informed decision not if it is an involuntary one based on ignorance or lack of knowledge or the result of being duped via socialization-or inability to choose due to mental deficiency.
If indeed there are those who have died without having had the opportunity to make a truly informed decision then they will be resurrected and provisions will be made for their care until they are ready to make an informed decision in reference to the Ransom sacrifice.


This is nice and all... but prove it. Where in the Holy Scripture is this said?



As far as babies going to Hell and little children, come on! That's not the God I serve.

My point exactly... that is the only real answer anyone can give about this subject... because they simply do not know.

The refusal to accept Jesus Ransom results in death .No it doesn't. No one ever died who didn't believe what you believe.

NK-
I think the other poster was saying was refusal to accept Jesus results in death after death. Not like, "I reject this..blah..blah..." Now I go out the church, and BAM! I get hit by a car & killed!

Nope, he said refusal results in death. Please read his post: https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/religion/jesus-way-36362-2.html#post189552

No it doesn't. No one ever died who didn't believe what you believe.

As a matter of fact, your statement isn't true at all. :D

As a matter of fact, your statement isn't true at all. :DProof? You spout out these lines like they are facts but yet offer nothing to back it up. Skip the scripture and show me real world examples.

No it doesn't. No one ever died who didn't believe what you believe.

OK, I skipped Scripture. Now read your statement again. Ah duh - your statement doesn't make sense. That's a fact, Watson!

Here's the answer to the question: Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. No man cometh unto the Father except through HIM-Jesus. It's simple.
....
The important thing to know is that you have to make the decision for yourself. No one can do it for you. The bible also says that if anyone tries to enter in by any other way but through Jesus he is a thief and a robber. He didn't die to give us a multiple choice way into Heaven. He died to be the only way.
....
Again, He is the ONLY Way.
For those of you who embrace a religion of ONLYistic absolutism, it clearly is the ONLY way. Your choice of the Bible as the ONLY true scripture, and your insistence that your interpretation of it is the ONLY correct one are valid ONLY for you, nobody else.

For those of you who embrace a religion of ONLYistic absolutism, it clearly is the ONLY way. Your choice of the Bible as the ONLY true scripture, and your insistence that your interpretation of it is the ONLY correct one are valid ONLY for you, nobody else.

Nobody else except those who are in agreement with the persons who hold that viewpoint.

BTW
The same can be said of any belief-be it scientific theory, hypotheses, aesthetics, morality, or ethics, etcetera. So there really isn't any distinction here at all. You have people who believe that they can trace themselves to an apelike ancestor and from there to a piglike one who just happened to have survived a mass extinction, and then top a reptile and then to a fishlike one. Right? Yet that might be true for him but there are those to whom that isn't true at all.

So your criticism has to be applied to people who do the same in all areas of knowledge, not just the religious. Which means that your logic will set you against the whole human race.


See the point?

One thing is for certain, we all have free will. We choose what, who, and why we believe. Cal me a Bible Thumper, fanatic, ONLYistic, whatever... I choose to believe He is the ONLY way. I don't make the rules and I'm not perfect, but what if I'm right? What if there's more than just "exisitng" and then death? I look at it this way, say the Bible is right and Jesus is the only way, what do I have to lose while I'm here? Nothing, but I have so much to gain! If the rules and guidelines in the Bible are followed as closely as possible, what kind of human being will that make of someone? You would be able to trust that person, respect them, and know they will always be generous, kind, and I guarantee that person can reach Heaven when you have a need. I know a lot of people who have different religious preferences than my own and you want to know what is sad? A lot of them don't believe in divine healing, yet when they are sick or need something desperately, those same people ask for me to pray. So again, what do you have to lose by just believing?

If the rules and guidelines in the Bible are followed as closely as possible, what kind of human being will that make of someone? You would be able to trust that person, respect them, and know they will always be generous, kind, and I guarantee that person can reach Heaven when you have a need.There are tons of us who don't read the bible and are kind, generous, respectable people. People who are kind, generous and respectable exist all over the place regardless of religion, in the same manner as there are bible thumpers who are just plain bad people.

...If the rules and guidelines in the Bible are followed as closely as possible, what kind of human being will that make of someone? You would be able to trust that person, respect them, and know they will always be generous, kind...

A nice thought and yes, one would think that is the way it would be... but as so many continue to prove over and over, that's just not the way it is.

There are tons of us who don't read the bible and are kind, generous, respectable people. People who are kind, generous and respectable exist all over the place regardless of religion, in the same manner as there are bible thumpers who are just plain bad people.

Wow Karma, can you start talking about some of those good & generous & kind non-Christians in detail for a change?

All I recall from you is that your mother-in-law pressured you guys to Baptize your child; you have strong reactions to "Margaret" from the show Trading Spouses; & you recklessly worship the Flying Spaghetti Monster (your FSM) ?

How come your always CHALLENGING Christian viewpoints ? Is your creed so weak that you need to take it out on "us"?

That's displacement of one's emotions...

Apparently you skip over the parts where I said that the large percentage of my family and friends are indeed christians. I just mentioned that good people exist all over the place including christians.

The only part I challenge is when people say that you can only be a good person by being a christian which is, of course, utterly false.

NeedKarma disagrees: The same is NOT true of belief in scientific theory since they do not tell others that they are on the wrong path and are going to hell. Get it?

When they put forth that their particular view is the only correct one they are telling you that if you disagree you are wrong. All reputable astronomers say that the earth will be burnt to a cinder by the sun when the it shifts from fusing hydrogen to fusing helium.


That means that they are saying humans alive at that time living on Earth don't stand a snowball's chance if they remain here. If you contradict that belief they will consider you ignorant just as they will consider you ignorant if you contradict any other of their cherished beliefs.

In short, they are telling mankind that they are on the path to being destroyed if they don't listen to them and take measures to survive. Right?

BTW
I do not believe that nobility of character is restricted to Christians. Or that non-Christians are incapable of being honest law-abiding decent people. So if you got that idea it wasn't from me.

Um, no. You missed the point entirely. Scientific research allows for all to see your work, attempt to reproduce it, and accepts that all things are possible until proven otherwise. I'm not sure what your story means (although it's a hypothesis and, if you can prove otherwise then your good to go) but there is no only one correct view in science.

And no it wasn't you who mentioned the other stuff. :)

The same can be said of any belief-be it scientific theory, hypotheses, aesthetics, morality, or ethics, etcetera. So there really isn't any distinction here at all. You have people who believe that they can trace themselves to an apelike ancestor and from there to a piglike one who just happened to have survived a mass extinction, and then top a reptile and then to a fishlike one. Right? Yet that might be true for him but there are those to whom that isn't true at all.

So your criticism has to be applied to people who do the same in all areas of knowledge, not just the religious. Which means that your logic will set you against the whole human race.

See the point?

Nice try, but no. Proponents of a scientific theory don't claim that those who doubt or question it will be condemned to hell BY GOD.


When they put forth that their particular view is the only correct one they are telling you that if you disagree you are wrong. All reputable astronomers say that the earth will be burnt to a cinder by the sun when the it shifts from fusing hydrogen to fusing helium.

That means that they are saying humans alive at that time living on Earth don't stand a snowball's chance if they remain here. If you contradict that belief they will consider you ignorant just as they will consider you ignorant if you contradict any other of their cherished beliefs.

In short, they are telling mankind that they are on the path to being destroyed if they don't listen to them and take measures to survive. Right?

No, not even close. To disagree with a person's ideas about what will happen when the sun runs out of fuel is not in any sense the same as saying that that person will be eternally damned BY GOD for believing something different about it than you do.



I do not believe that nobility of character is restricted to Christians. Or that non-Christians are incapable of being honest law-abiding decent people.

How very generous of you! Non-Christians the world over will be relieved.

Um, no. You missed the point entirely. Scientific research allows for all to see your work, attempt to reproduce it, and accepts that all things are possible until proven otherwise. I'm not sure what your story means (although it's a hypothesis and, if you can prove otherwise then your good to go) but there is no only one correct view in science.

And no it wasn't you who mentioned the other stuff. :)


Does science really accept that all things are possible until proven otherwise? The existence of God hasn't been proven otherwise and yet most scientists seem quite vehement in denying the possibility of a creator


bTW
If we are averse to religious dogmatism then to remain consistent we must remain averse to scientific dogmatism as well. Otherwise it really isn't dogmatism we are averse to but something else entirely.


Nice try, but no. Proponents of a scientific theory don't claim that those who doubt or question it will be condemned to hell BY GOD.



No, not even close. To disagree with a person's ideas about what will happen when the sun runs out of fuel is not in any sense the same as saying that that person will be eternally damned BY GOD for believing something different about it than you do.



How very generous of you! Non-Christians the world over will be relieved.

1. I never said they were equivalent
2. I never said that they were saying that.
3. Now you are merely heckling and jeckling.

1. I never said they were equivalent
2. I never said that they were saying that.
3. Now you are merely heckling and jeckling.

1. No? Then what did you mean by "So there really isn't any distinction here at all"?

2. No? Then what did you mean by "they are telling mankind that they are on the path to being destroyed if they don't listen"?

Wasn't it your point that the same criticisms being dircted at religious dogmatism apply equally to scientific theories and opinions? My point is that the offensive thing about religious bigotry is its insistence, not just that opposing views are wrong, but that God will punish those who hold these views.

3. Yes, I was heckling a little, and I apoligise for that. But I firmly deny jeckling.

bTW
If we are averse to religious dogmatism then to remain consistent we must remain averse to scientific as well. Otherwise it really isn't dogmatism we are averse to but something else entirely.Not at all. Religious dogmatism is based on faith, science cannot be a dogmatism (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/dogmatism)by definition since it is based on observable facts and repetitive experimentation. Nice try though, points for big words. Being averse to a dogmatism and not to science is not a consistency problem, it's a strawman argument. The point we are making is that there are only a few people here that consistenly tell others that they are on the wrong path and are damned simply because they don't believe the same stuff the same way. Most here have a belief and allow others to have their own, whether it's the same or not. Is that so hard to understand?

I don't want to start a new pissing match or add to the current one, but this question of dogma is really interesting. Is the theory of the sun's frying the planet an issue of 'scientific' dogma to a christian believer? Are there other scientific theories (other than evolution) that christian believers have trouble with, and feel the world in general, the scientific community or the media are shoving down their throats? Is it a question of dogma at all?

1. No? Then what did you mean by "So there really isn't any distinction here at all"?

2. No? Then what did you mean by "they are telling mankind that they are on the path to being destroyed if they don't listen"?

Wasn't it your point that the same criticisms being dircted at religious dogmatism apply equally to scientific theories and opinions? My point is that the offensive thing about religious bigotry is its insistence, not just that opposing views are wrong, but that God will punish those who hold these views.

3. Yes, I was heckling a little, and I apoligise for that. But I firmly deny jeckling.


I meant that scientists are just as convinced that they and only they are right as the religious people you describe. So in their belief in being correct to the exception of all others once they conclude that they are-there is no difference between the twain.

The offensive thing I find in many atheist scientists is that they consider anyone who disagrees with their Godless views an ignoramus. How so?

This way:


They are telling mankind that the future of the earth as described in the Bible is a lie because there is no God and that anyone disagreeing with them is an undereducated fool. Obviously you choose not to see that as bigotry while choosing to see those who say they believe in God and what they consider his purpose for the Earth as true bigots.
In the realm of logic this is called the fallacy of inconsistency of policy.

Excerpt:
Dogmatic atheists refuse to accept the demands of their own positions and one need only visit the internet to see a legion of atheist apologetic sites claming that the Burden of Proof does not apply to them.

http://www.deism.com/dogmatic%20atheism.htm


BTW
Scientists are also guilty of the inconsistency of policy error in the way they choose and don't choose to interpret data.

Of course there are arrogant, bigoted and self-righteous people in every walk of life (not just scientists) who think that anyone who disagrees with their opinions is an ignoramus. And yes, to this extent they are like religious bigots. But unlike religious bigots, they DON'T claim that their opinions come, not from their own thought and experience, but directly from GOD, and furthermore, that GOD will punish all the ignoramuses who have the temerity to disagree with them. That's the difference, and it's a big obvious one, so trying to deny and obscure it isn't going to work here. Give it up.

The offensive thing I find in many atheist scientists is that they consider anyone who disagrees with their Godless views an ignoramus. Bull. Science doesn't work that way. I've explained it before but you've ignored it. Yay, you found one arrogant website, bravo, now talk to the rest of the people involved in the science, all 99.9% of them.

BTW
Once again there is no BTW.

Bull. Science doesn't work that way. I've explained it before but you've ignored it. Yay, you found one arrogant website, bravo, now talk to the rest of the people involved in the science, all 99.9% of them.

BTW
Once again there is no BTW.

I am 100% familiar with the scientific method and would never claim that the scientific method involves bias, or bigotry. However, those who claim that they are applying the scientific method are definitely quite able to be biased and bigoted while claiming to be applying that method. Big difference.


Scientists have absolutely no proof that there isn't a God and yet they don't acknowledge that as a possibility. To me and thousands of others that's quackery and smacks of biased thinking. Can you give me a good reason why it shouldn't strike us as biased?

Furthermore, as I said before and was totally ignored, sometimes atheist scientists apply scientific rules as long as those rules don't contradict their cherished atheism. If the rules might go against their atheism then they have been known to suddenly become unscientific.

Since that's the case I am not convinced about their constant claim that there isn't any God.


Also, you give great value to numerical weight of opinion.
That's called bandwagon thinking and is a fallacy of reasoning.
Majority of opinion does not guarantee truth.

BTW
I could have swamped the thread with dozens of the websites I found which speak of scientist bigotry but didn't think it necessary since the number of links I might be able to place won't change your viewpoint anyway.

http://www.geocities.com/davidjayjordan/EvolutionisaBIGLIE.html


Of course there are arrogant, bigoted and self-righteous people in every walk of life (not just scientists) who think that anyone who disagrees with their opinions is an ignoramus. And yes, to this extent they are like religious bigots. But unlike religious bigots, they DON'T claim that their opinions come, not from their own thought and experience, but directly from GOD, and furthermore, that GOD will punish all the ignoramuses who have the temerity to disagree with them. That's the difference, and it's a big obvious one, so trying to deny and obscure it isn't going to work here. Give it up.


I have absolutely nothing to deny or obscure. I have been very clear in my statements.
Perhaps what you perceive as denial and an effort to obscure is simply that I disagree with your beliefs. In fact, I could just as easily say that you are denying and obscuring.
But making that kind of baseless accusation adds nothing to a discussion we are not supposed to be having on this forum in the first place. It only leads to a childish "Is so!" "Is not!" interminable cycle that might provoke modertator intervention.


In any case, I never said that all scientists are bigots. Obviously not all scientists are bigots just as not all scientists are atheists or Godless evolutionist fanatics. Actually, you are the one making sweeping statement in which you classify all religious persons as bigots because they believe that their religious beliefs are true and those of others are not--something which scientists do all the time rehgardless of the religious sensibilities of those who have to listen to their constant atheistic propaganda.

http://www.ex-atheist.com/contending-for-the-faith.html

The problem, as I perceive it, is that you focus only on what you consider religious bigotry but conveniently ignore the bigotry upon which your own precious beliefs are firmly founded.

BTW

I consider it bigotry when a person asks a question about Jesus on a question and answer forum and some who can't stomach other people's belief in Jesus feel they have to make the question into a heated debate. It smacks of intolerance. Sorry.


if jesus christ is the only way as the bible says. What is the fate of millions of people born into other religions as it seems thatmost peoples beliefs are as a result of the fact that they were born into a particular faith and thier parents thought them to follow that faith?


"If?"

As a Christian my answer to your hypothetical can only be one:


Acceptance of Jesus' Ransom Sacrifice is the only way leading to eternal life.


John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

John 17:3
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.



Yes, many people believe in the religion they were brought up to believe in.
But that doesn't nullify that Jesus is the only way to gain eternal life.
What is the fate of these other people?
They will be given a chance to make an informed decision.
That includes those who have died without having had that chance.
Only after they are able to make an informed decision will they be held fully accountable.
That period is referred to a Judgment Day and the people of Sodom and Gomorrha who died without ever having had a chance to learn of Jesus will be resurrected and will be there.


Matthew 10:15
Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha
in the day of judgment, than for that city.


Those who are righteous of heart but who lack accurate knowledge will be given accurate knowledge

Isaiah 11:9
They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.



Habakkuk 2:14
For the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

... and being righteously inclined will follow as Jesus said they would.

John 10:27
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

All those refusing to abide by God's way of doing things will have chosen death just Adam chose death though he knew what he was choosing.

Deuteronomy 30:19
I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

Starman you say "Scientists have absolutely no proof that there isn't a God and yet they don't acknowledge that as a possibility." Are the scientists not acknowledging God's existence, or God's intervention? And if a person's idea of intervention is not to the level or nature of your belief, your brand them atheist.
Also, quoting the bible to prove biblical interpretations are correct is circular logic. Science, above all things, avoids that kind false thinking.

Christianity does not allow those that do not accept Christ a place in God's kingdom.



Isn't it pretty presumptious to suppose that "Christianity" (meaning who or what, exactly?) has either the ability or the right to prevent anyone from entering God's kingdom? Wouldn't that be up to God alone? It's exactly this arrogance of organized religion in trying to place itself between the individual and God that I find so offensive. As I interpret the gospels, Jesus was offended by it as well. "But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! Because you shut up the Kingdom of Heaven against men; for you don't enter in yourselves, neither do you allow those who are entering in to enter". (Matt. 23:14) All in all, I don't find much evidence that he saw a big role for religious institutions as gatekeepers of the Kingdom.

Starman you say "Scientists have absolutely no proof that there isn't a God and yet they don't acknowledge that as a possibility." Are the scientists not acknowledging God's existence, or God's intervention? And if a person's idea of intervention is not to the level or nature of your belief, your brand them athiest.
Also, quoting the bible to prove biblical interpretations are correct is circular logic. Science, above all things, avoids that kind false thinking.



First, please go back and read the question and see for yourself that the questioner himself brings in the Bible into focus. Since that is the case why is it then that you are so surprised that I answer him biblically when he himself brings the Bible into it?


I did not say all scientists, I said scientists who are atheists don't admit the possibility of a creator. Here is an example. There is right now a search going on for extraterrestrial life via SETI and via the space rovers on Mars. Soon there will be a way of analyzing the atmospheres of distant exoplanets via element signatures which will indicate whether the planet has life or not-in fact, will be able to determine whether that result is due to a technological civilization.

I am sure that you are aware of what atheist astronomers are saying in relation to such a discovery.

"Discovery of life will prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that evolution of life can take place on other worlds and that the earth is not unique. All you need is the right substances right temperatures and life will emerge all by itself."

That's what they are saying if life is discovered on other worlds. Never do I hear them as much as vaguely admit that life might have been placed there by a creator.

They do go so far as to say that a far more advanced civilization than ours might have seeded the earth, But they never say that such an advance life itself was created by God.

The same holds true for all their other claims including the presence of the moon which is essential to Earth's rotational stability. This had to have been the result of blind forces which come along just by chance and voila-Earth has a moon.

The same goes for all their other claims ad infinitum.
So where the admission that you say comes in reference to God I really don't know.


BTW
Circular logic to those who assume it's open to any and all interpretations.
The question is a biblical one and calls for a biblical answer.

In any case, I never said that all scientists are bigots. Obviously not all scientists are bigots just as not all scientists are atheists or Godless evolutionist fanatics.

See, now we're making progress, because it sure seemed like that's what you thought. I'm glad to know it isn't.



Actually, you are the one making sweeping statement in which you classify all religious persons as bigots because they believe that their religious beliefs are true and those of others are not

No, read carefully and you'll see that's not what I said. I said that some (but not all) scientists, and some (but not all) religious people are arrogant and self-righteous in being contemptuous of anyone who disagrees with them. I use the term bigotry as a synonym for arrogance and self-righteousness, and I do think it's pretty bad manners, whether displayed by scientists, religious people, or anyone else. But that's not really my point. My point is that what sets religious intolerance apart and makes it especially offensive is the certitude that one's own belief is shared by GOD, and that GOD will punish those who disagree with it. It's the use of God as a club to try to bludgeon others into submission that I find despicable and sacrilegious. This is the third time I've made this point, and I promise it will the last. If it's not a point you're willing to address, I'm OK with that. Anyway, I'm not really speaking to you personally or accusing you of anything, Starman, I'm just trying to further the discussion in a civilized and respectful manner.

See, now we're making progress, because it sure seemed like that's what you thought. I'm glad to know it isn't.



. It's the use of God as a club to try to bludgeon others into submission that I find despicable and sacreligious. This is the third time I've made this point, and I promise it will the last. If it's not a point you're willing to address, I'm OK with that. Anyway, I'm not really speaking to you personally or accusing you of anything, Starman, I'm just trying to further the discussion in a civilized and respectful manner.


Thanks for clearing up certain points. No, I don't agree with trying to force others to think my way. That is for others to decide for themselves. That's why when I give my opinion and some gives an opposite one without bringing my answer into the picture I just try to ignore it. It's only when my response to a question is made a focus of criticism or debate that I feel I have to respond.


I personally do not see how my response to this person's question concerning Jesus is an attempt at bludgeoning anyone into submission. He directly asked a biblical question about Jesus and I answered it-bludgeoning never crossed my mind.

BTW

I have had others try to bludgeon me into submission religiously on more than one occasion. Shouting threats of eternal damnation in hell, red faced, bulging purple neck veins, spittle flying, arms flailing the whole disaster. I guess that's what you must be referring to.

I thought it was pretty clear that by addressing you I was speaking to you and not the question. But whatever. In the question of life and it's start; whether the creator creates life on another planet, or creates the circumstances that allow life to happen, or just once, created everything in a flash and it all just unfolds according to laws of physics and chemistry, many of which we have yet to discover. Which of those scenarios is not miraculous and worthy of praise and awe? OK. For the sake of argument, the creator did it all at once and only here on planet earth. The nature of science and human nature too, demands the next questions: how, why, and why not elsewhere? That investigative, questioning nature requires answers. Real and verifiable. Logic. Not circular reference to biblical script. Faith is one thing. The pursuit of knowledge is another. I believe the circular arguments of faith to be more limiting than expansive, and as such should never be the sole guide to how knowledge is pursued or conveyed.

I thought it was pretty clear that by addressing you I was speaking to you and not the question. But whatever. In the question of life and it's start; whether the creator creates life on another planet, or creates the circumstances that allow life to happen, or just once, created everything in a flash and it all just unfolds according to laws of physics and chemistry, many of which we have yet to discover. Which of those scenarios is not miraculous and worthy of praise and awe? OK. For the sake of argument, the creator did it all at once and only here on planet earth. The nature of science and human nature too, demands the next questions: how, why, and why not elsewhere? That investigative, questioning nature requires answers. Real and verifiable. Logic. Not circular reference to biblical script. Faith is one thing. The pursuit of knowledge is another. I believe the circular arguments of faith to be more limiting than expansive, and as such should never be the sole guide to how knowledge is pursued or conveyed.

Can you please point out where I said that all seeking of knowledge should be limited to reading scripture. Have you really met a human being who actually made such a stupid statement or is this something that you imagine that certain people propose?


All I said was that the question asked is a biblically-based one which requires the quoting of scripture. Nothing more.


BTW
Nothing is ultimately verifiable and everything depends ultimately on faith.
All we can verify is that we are receiving what appear to be sense impressions from what appears to be a stimulus from what appears to be an external world



.

I just wanted to say "WOW" to all the postings to this particular question. I have read a lot of emotional reactions, defensive responses, and the such. I am just sorry that we can't share our ideas, beliefs, and thoughts without getting attacked, put down, corrected, or analysed.

To the original question.

I believe that everyone will be given the chance to believe in Jesus. It can come to them in so many different ways. It is imprinted on the heart of man, because he created us in His image. So, we all know somewhere inside. It just comes down to what we choose.

I also wanted to comment on what I have read several times about christians stating that by not believing you are condemned and will go to hell.

First of all, that is not what Jesus would say. He would tell you how much He loves you and wants you to have a relationship with Him and to put your trust in Him.

As a "christian" which means to be Christ like, we are to tell others who we were, how we met Jesus and what He has done in our life, and who we are today. Then we do life together and our walk in life is our testimony. If we are not christ like, then we send the wrong messages.

I am so grieved to read the responses of those who have obviously been turned off in one form or another. Many people claim to be christians, when in fact they don't have a clue what it means to be Christ like.

My prayer and hope is that those who don't know the Truth of God, will allow their hearts to soften and that someone will come into their life and be a shining light of what it truly means to be Christ like.

BTW
I want to add that Christianity is not a religion, it is a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. So, I believe that those that end up giving it a bad wrap, are the ones who haven't discovered this yet.

Thanks for letting me share,
Holly

if jesus christ is the only way as the bible says. What is the fate of millions of people born into other religions as it seems thatmost peoples beliefs are as a result of the fact that they were born into a particular faith and thier parents thought them to follow that faith?
Their fate is largely our responsibility as Christians. I believe that there is an inert need in every human being to worship God. We who know the truth have a tremendous responsibility to share the Gospel.
Romans 10:13..."For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. Then, look at the three questions that follow, and the only logical answers to those questions. (1) vs. 14... How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? (2) And how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? (3) And how shall they hear without a preacher?
Then the final logical question is in Vs. 15 AND HOW SHALL THEY PREACH, EXCEPT THEY BE SENT?
That's where you and me come in! It is not currently practical for me to "take" the Gospel to those needing it, but it is absolutely practical and necessary that I give of my money so that others can go to take God's Word. I hope this helps you. God bless you

I believe that there is an inert need in every human being to worship God. I'm assuming you meant to use the word "innate". Either way I don't believe that to be true. There are millions if not billions of people who are enjoying their lives who have no need to worship God.

I believe also that God gives us the opportunity to learn about the gift of salvation. It is also the responsibility of other Christians to teach about Jesus and the gift of salvation. Although it is hard to fathom how millions of people could be wrong about Jesus because their cultures or parents do not teach them about Jesus, there are millions of us in the US where a Christian church is on every corner and we all do not follow Christ with that kind of opportunity! Many missionaries are sent out every single day to reach countries where they may not have learned about God, the Bible and Jesus, believe me other Christians DO NOT forget about these people!

Being a good person does not get you into heaven but you have to believe in god, pray for forgiveness and do God's work. A lot of people think that "being good" will get you in heaven. This is just what people want to believe and think they can take the easy way out. This is false!