... give it to the government!

At least that's what I heard an old man say a few years back, kind of stuck with me.

Now that the government is inches away from owning one of the largest companies in the world, who knows that interesting turns this will take?

It's a sure fire thing for any company, let it go to an organization with bottomless pockets (the federal government) after all, there is no limit to the amount of money they can borrow right? All it cost is a little inflation, but surely our unemployed masses can afford it.

What's ironic is, I've often said if any private business were ran like the federal government, they'd be bankrupt. After all, no business can run in a defecit year after year after year. Of course, I guess if you got big enough and did, you'd just be bought out by the federal government.. err... wait a minute... there is an error in the program here... a loop in the system.

So how much longer before this program crashes and we go the way of Rome and Russia?

Everyone all set to stand in line for stale bread at your local supercenter?

It must suck to live in the US. :(

It must suck to live in the US. :(

It does right now... Just waiting on hubby to get home to tell me when our shop will be taken over by the bank. Good thing we can live in our van down by the river! :confused:

I never thought that gun mentality would be productive in the end.

NK, it's been productive for over 7 years with our family and more than 25 years with the previous owner.

It does right now.....Just waiting on hubby to get home to tell me when our shop will be taken over by the bank. Good thing we can live in our van down by the river!! :confused:

And if you think I'm kidding, I'm not... Quite serious actually. Got to figure out how to tell the kids.

NK, it's been productive for over 7 years with our family and more than 25 years with the previous owner.
I didn't mean just your shop, I guess I kind of feel like you guys are going to shoot yourselves to death in some massive civil war.

J_9,

Surely you don't lay all the blame on the present administration?

J_9,

Surely you don't lay all the blame on the present administration?

Well, most of it yes I do. Skell, we see the difference in what we are no allowed to order and what we aren't. We see that there are certain things that are no longer available to anyone in the industry.

In 2007 this company excessed one million dollars, in 2008 it was over one and a half mil. This year, and it's only May, we are struggling to make $1000 a day.

I just thank the FSM that I have a job in healthcare and that people are always going to have babies. But then I have to deal with his proposal of abortions... guess I could go into another area of nursing.

It must suck to live in the US. :(

Don't feel smug. If the US goes under do you really think Canada won't go down too?

In fact, given the amount of foreign goods purchased here, a LOT of countries would go down.

I wouldn't say it sucks to live in the US, is right now a rough time?; certainly. However it has been worse, and can get worse.

We still haven't touched the great depression.

And if I understand history, the era around the revolution were trying times.

The real question is, are people willing to stand up and fight for their rights as they did 200 years ago, or shall we roll over the die a slow death..

J_9: You and yours have my sympathy and I wish you all the best of luck. I understand for families who are going through the brunt of this, it may feel like the great depression.

In fact, I found out another neighbor just went on unemployment today, last week, I was talking to another who's unemployment is about to run out in a week. Very few of us here on this block still have jobs.

If the US goes under do you really think Canada won't go down too? Well we did fare much better in the real estate/mortgage debacle. We aren't all doom and gloom here.

Well, most of it yes I do. Skell, we see the difference in what we are no allowed to order and what we aren't. We see that there are certain things that are no longer available to anyone in the industry.

In 2007 this company excessed one million dollars, in 2008 it was over one and a half mil. This year, and it's only May, we are struggling to make $1000 a day.

I just thank the FSM that I have a job in healthcare and that people are always going to have babies. But then I have to deal with his proposal of abortions...guess I could go into another area of nursing.

So do you see it as a fault of Obama, supposed tightening of gun laws (yet to see any evidence of that) or the economic downturn?

Its quite clear from sales in all industry sectors that we are in recession and people are tightening their belts and saving the money they used to spend. That can hardly be entirely the fault of this admin. Bush was driving the bus for a long time prior to Obama and didn't do anything worthwhile to prevent it.

You're in the medical field. You of all people should no that prevention is better than cure.

Likewise, the fault can't be placed solely on Bush, neither. And blaming Bush does not make this situation any better. What is known is that CONGRESS makes the laws and the budgets.

The country has its ups and its downs, we survived the Great Depression, 2 world wars, Jimmy Carter... we will get over Obama soon enough.




G&P

As Skell said I think it is more of people just spending less money. My cousin wanted to buy a new gun but he said I either buy a new gun or pay rent he paid his rent. I researched this and Obama hasn't put any new gun laws into place. He wanted to but he didn't.

If you want to screw something up.... give it to the government!

At least that's what I heard an old man say a few years back, kinda stuck with me.Hello andrew:

I'm no lover of government... But there ARE a few jobs they're cut out to do... Like fight wars, build and maintain roads, run the power grids and stuff like that.

The problem as I see it, for the last 30 years the government was run by people just like that old man. The departments that were set up to regulate, were run by people who believed that government shouldn't regulate, so they didn't regulate...

And, look what's happened.

excon

Regulation is supposed to make people play fair or protect.

Lobbying isn't playing fair.

If anyone in government makes any ethics violation, they should be out with "no elligibility for parole" so to speak.

Common sense! Lawyers and politicians make laws. Corruption at it's best. Next, apparently is CEO's.

Speaking of screwing things up and fairness...


Millionaires Go Missing (http://finance.yahoo.com/banking-budgeting/article/107123/Millionaires-Go-Missing)
Wednesday, May 27, 2009provided byWSJ

Here's a two-minute drill in soak-the-rich economics:

Maryland couldn't balance its budget last year, so the state tried to close the shortfall by fleecing the wealthy. Politicians in Annapolis created a millionaire tax bracket, raising the top marginal income-tax rate to 6.25%. And because cities such as Baltimore and Bethesda also impose income taxes, the state-local tax rate can go as high as 9.45%. Governor Martin O'Malley, a dedicated class warrior, declared that these richest 0.3% of filers were "willing and able to pay their fair share." The Baltimore Sun predicted the rich would "grin and bear it."

One year later, nobody's grinning. One-third of the millionaires have disappeared from Maryland tax rolls. In 2008 roughly 3,000 million-dollar income tax returns were filed by the end of April. This year there were 2,000, which the state comptroller's office concedes is a "substantial decline." On those missing returns, the government collects 6.25% of nothing. Instead of the state coffers gaining the extra $106 million the politicians predicted, millionaires paid $100 million less in taxes than they did last year -- even at higher rates.

No doubt the majority of that loss in millionaire filings results from the recession. However, this is one reason that depending on the rich to finance government is so ill-advised: Progressive tax rates create mountains of cash during good times that vanish during recessions. For evidence, consult California, New York and New Jersey (see here (http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylt=AtnCBkVB4LcG1i4ur.yENNQy0tIF/SIG=11sjnrdt9/**http%3A//online.wsj.com/article/SB124329298290552503.html)).

The Maryland state revenue office says it's "way too early" to tell how many millionaires moved out of the state when the tax rates rose. But no one disputes that some rich filers did leave. It's easier than the redistributionists think. Christopher Summers, president of the Maryland Public Policy Institute, notes: "Marylanders with high incomes typically own second homes in tax friendlier states like Florida, Delaware, South Carolina and Virginia. So it's easy for them to change their residency."

All of this means that the burden of paying for bloated government in Annapolis will fall on the middle class. Thanks to the futility of soaking the rich, these working families will now pay Mr. O'Malley's "fair share."

That's why the Obots are going to go national with the tax increases .

Remember that tax cut for 95% of Americans ? Well the Compost is reporting that they will increase taxes to 100 % of Americans with a VAT national sales tax.
Once Considered Unthinkable, U.S. Sales Tax Gets Fresh Look (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/26/AR2009052602909_pf.html)

Can't move to another State to avoid that !

Can't move to another State to avoid that !Hello tom:

Can't hire a lobbyist to exempt you and your business, either. That's why I like it. It's FAIR and it encourages saving.

In terms of your FEAR tactics, you're wrong. The poor will be able to deduct THEIR taxes...

excon

No they won't . A sales tax is regressive. But I would favor it if all other taxes were scrapped.

Business will just pass along taxes to the consumer like they always do.

Your post is sooooo relevently right on!

They want to take over our health care but their cities are BANKRUPT!

They are taking over banks and the car industry but they can't even figure out how to make money on the Port Authority.

Like in my city they are building a tunnel under the river. Nobody wants it. We walk across the Roberto Clemente Bridge or take the bus across the 9th street bridge.
They said it will cost one amount, but after they started it they doubled that amount. Then a couple months later they said that the subway to the South Hills is losing money.

Once a year they say they are going to raise fares and cut service because they are broke.
Then the next thing you know they are buying NEW busses for the routes they were going to cut.

Quinn and Rose (local political radio talk show)
Say if you want to increase your pizza business you do not raise the price and cut the service so why is this governments logic?

That's why the Obots are going to go national with the tax increases .

Remember that tax cut for 95% of Americans ? Well the Compost is reporting that they will increase taxes to 100 % of Americans with a VAT national sales tax.
Once Considered Unthinkable, U.S. Sales Tax Gets Fresh Look (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/26/AR2009052602909_pf.html)

Can't move to another State to avoid that !

And more good news, "federal tax revenue plunged $138 billion (http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/taxes/2009-05-26-irs-tax-revenue-down_N.htm), or 34%, in April." Remember, that 95% would not see their taxes raised "one dime" in an Obama administration.

Not only that ;Obama's chief economic adviser, Christina Romer,authored a study that concluded that, going back to 1947, a 1% rise in taxes results in roughly a 2% to 3% drop in GDP growth.Tax Increases Reduce GDP (http://www.nber.org/cgi-bin/printit?uri=/digest/mar08/w13264.html)

So how will these tax increases help pull us out of the economic downturn?

So how will these tax increases help pull us out of the economic downturn?Hello tom:

With the VAT, the only ones who'll be getting a tax increase is the very wealthy. You're still carrying their water, I see.

What could possibly be wrong with a tax system that takes ONE page to explain, and is fair to everybody across the board?? The more you spend, the more tax you pay.

Our tax code now is about 40 jillion pages long. 39.9 jillion are there to explain why so and so industry should be exempt. I actually KNOW that to be true, because I've actually READ the tax code.

excon

Did you miss this part of my response ?


But I would favor it if all other taxes were scrapped.


With the VAT, the only ones who'll be getting a tax increase is the very wealthy. You're still carrying their water, I see.


How do you figure that ? It is an across the board tax on everything at every stage of production from raw goods to the consumers purchase . Business will pass the cost onto the consumer so the consumers get double a whammy .(and the rich will probably figure out a barter system) .

Your post is sooooo relevently right on!

They want to take over our health care but their cities are BANKRUPT!

They are taking over banks and the car industry but they can't even figure out how to make money on the Port Authority.

Like in my city they are building a tunnel under the river. Nobody wants it. We walk across the Roberto Clemente Bridge or take the bus across the 9th street bridge.
They said it will cost one amount, but after they started it they doubled that amount. Then a couple months later they said that the subway to the South Hills is losing money.

Once a year they say they are going to raise fares and cut service because they are broke.
Then the next thing you know they are buying NEW busses for the routes they were going to cut.

Quinn and Rose (local political radio talk show)
Say if you want to increase your pizza business you do not raise the price and cut the service so why is this governments logic?

Yup, this is what I was saying, the US government system is a highly inefficient system, and if it were a private business, would have been bankrupt a long time ago.
Consider how long it takes to get a dissability claim approved. The lines at the DMV. Take a number and stand in line. I can quickly see going to the new government GM dealer. Here, take a number, your salesmen will be with you shortly.

Oh, hello sir, I see you want to buy a car, here, before we begin, I need you to fill out FORM 34FC section 3, 4, and 5. Sign here, here and here, mail your payment here and you will receive your car in 6 to 8 weeks.

All government knows how to do is raise taxes. And tomder, if they proceed with a federal sales tax ON TOP of my state sales tax, ON TOP OF my local sales tax, then I'll just have more incentive to BUY LESS.

Yup, sounds great for the economy.


But VAT advocates say those negatives could be offset by using the proceeds to pay for health care for every American -- a tangible benefit that would be highly valuable to low-income families. -THIS IS A JOKE!

There will never be health insurance for all Americans.

And all be it, a VERY POLICALLY INCORRECT thing to say, I'm just going to come out and say it, people like me (working men) will be the LAST in line to get it if it ever did happen.
I'm all for health care and taking care of kids, but if grown adults are to sick to work, so they may pay into this socialist system, then the whole thing is screwed anyway.

Anywho: On a side note, I woudn't be surprised if us guys are about the be put out of our misery anyway. With all this nonsense going on in North Korea, I see a draft coming on.
Oh boy, what's next?

I think it's time to go start a new country.

The only way I would support a fed sales tax is if both federal AND state INCOME taxes were elliminated.

To me, and income tax is like being FINED for working. It's common knowledge that with a little know how, one can easilly milk the system. All you have to do is knock up and shack up with a nasty crack whore, and deal a little dope and you're set for life!

Nope, only us who play by the rules, pay an INCOME TAX. Again, it's a FINE FOR HAVING A JOB. I mean, you don't get anything for it. Maybe about a penny of every dollar spent goes back into your pocket somehow. So, it's a fine. A penalty for working.

BTW: I see in the article, it states several times this tax is meant to pay for health care for all Americans not eligible for medicaid or medicare... well, I'll believe it when I see it.

The problem is, the other taxes, (fed & state income, etc.) are NOT going to be scrapped.
I guess those who voted in this regime are going to just have to suffer for it along with the rest of us who knew better.

Actually, I think the VAT or some form of nat'l sales tax would be much fairer (with the other taxes eliminated), that is, if anything purchased from WELFARE CHECKS or with FOOD STAMPS are taxed the same as any other commodity.

CHART OF THE DAY: The FDIC Is Going Broke (http://www.businessinsider.com/chart-of-the-day-deposit-insurance-fund-balance-2009-6)

http://static.10gen.com/www.businessinsider.com/~~/f?id=4a23d7bc14b9b9ce0002b198

So what's the plan here?

So who bails out the FDIC?

I guess the government just prints more money.

So what happens when the dollars is actually worthless. (no I mean REALLY worthless) and no other nations are interested in owning any?

"I'll give you three hours of labor for 2 loafs of your stale bread... money? No keep that money, it's useless..., why not just give me confederate dollars while your at it"

The future looks pretty bleak. Now to put the cherry on top, 5 co workers got the ax this morning. Out of a company of only about 35 employee's, it was a sizable layoff percentage wise.

Will I be next? Maybe, maybe not. Who knows...

Change we can believe in, I'll say, we went from slowing slipping, to abruptly collapsing!

Change we can beleive in, I'll say, we went from slowing slipping, to abruptly collapsing!So you believe that this all happened on Obama's 6 month watch?

So you believe that this all happened on Obama's 6 month watch?

Others may answer differently, but as I see it, Obama has taken a bad situation and is in the process of making it much worse. Don't give up though, he is not at the end of this path yet.

Remember what destroyed the USSR.

Remember what destroyed the USSR.I don't, what was it?

So you believe that this all happened on Obama's 6 month watch?

No, I actually believe this has been gradually happening since we built an economy based on oil. (100 years or so ago) Obama just happened to be the lucky president to preside when it all drew to a head.

We all know what lead to the housing burst, easy credit. People spending too much money they don't have. Borroring 20 bucks from a friend is one thing, having a $30,000 credit card balance is another. Obama is not perfect, no more than Bush, Clinton, Bush Sr, Regan and so forth were. I contend that American biggest problem is Americans in general, and our desire to have the best of the best. How many of us fuss and carry on when the town is slow to repair a pot hole, yet there are countries that barley have paved roads at all. How many of us complain if the store happens to be out of our favorite brand of snack, yet so many would kill for the crumbs that fell from it.

Hey- I'm not pointing the finger, I'm guilty too. I'm right in there with the rest of you all. I've got credit card balances myself that I racked up buying foolish things. I am however proud to say that I cut up my credit cards quite some time ago, and all be it, tough, we have lived out of cash in pocket for almost a year now.

I'm willing to accept that the median of the interstate won't be mowed as much this year. I'm willing to accept that pot holes may be slow to be repaired. I'm willing to accept modest price increases while businesses try to balance their books.

What I'm not willing to accept is a new tax to pay for a health care plan that I know damn well me, with my 35k per year will make too much money to qualify for, in addition to a tax on my already established employer health care plan that already cost $600 per month. It's ridiculous.

Again, I'm not one of these Obama bashers, no more than I was a Bush basher, politicians in general are all on the same side. You won't see campaign signs in my yard past the county level, mainly because the news media already hand picks who they are going to brainwash the masses to win anyway, as for me, I always vote my heart, and most of the time, he's neither democrat nor republican.

I don't, what was it?

No need to comb the history books, you are seeing history repeat itself right now.

Everything we are going through the USSR has "been there, done that".

Basically, in a nutshell, the USSR tried to take over everything, be the major power of the planet, got involved in wars, borrowed money to the point their currency was worthless, their economy collapsed, the USSR broke apart, and now no body really takes them seriously anymore.

One you dig deeper, the similarities are scary...

Now I see where this is going, I have insulted Mr Obama (or rather politicians in general), and I'm not going to say I'm always right, or even close to it, but you'll never get me to agree to another tax. They get enough money. If the church can survive on 10%, I don't see why the government should have such a problem with it. They are, after all, so much smarter than those religious types, what with their science and everything...

No, I actually beleive this has been gradually happening since we built an economy based on oil. (100 years or so ago) Obama just happened to be the lucky president to preside when it all drew to a head.
Correct, so the events would have unfolded regardless of who won the presidency. That was my point.

If the church can survive on 10%, I don't see why the government should have such a problem with it. They are, after all, so much smarter than those religious types, what with their science and everything....But the church does not survive on tithing alone, it has to fundraise continuously and basically beg their membership for money. It doesn't help that the rampant pedophilia adds up to very expensive bills in the end that someone has to pay for.

Correct, so the events would have unfolded regardless of who won the presidency. That was my point.

Fair enough... But the president of the US, is, always has been, and always will be the scape goat, he's just such an easy target. Congress makes the laws. What's scary is most American voters DON'T know who their CONGRESSMAN (or woman) is!

But the church does not survive on tithing alone, it has to fundraise continuously and basically beg their membership for money. It doesn't help that the rampant pedophilia adds up to very expensive bills in the end that someone has to pay for.

Well, personally, I think they government should beg tax payers for money. One of my biggest pet peeves of taxes is, how by God you'd better have that return filed by April 15th, but they can take their sweet time getting your refund to you. And if it takes them years, do you get interest? No. I also despise the double standard applied to taxes. If I don't pay my taxes year after year, you can almost bet I'm going to do some time, yet a multi billion dollar earner gets off. Justice isn't free, it's paid for, and if you can't afford it, you're screwed. I'm not just flopping my jaw, I've seen it, first hand, with first hand PERSONAL expirences. (not on TV)

I have no problem with the tax collectors doing a little fund raising. In fact, I've come to realize politicians are already quite good at it.

But the church does not survive on tithing alone, it has to fundraise continuously and basically beg their membership for money. It doesn't help that the rampant pedophilia adds up to very expensive bills in the end that someone has to pay for.

There's never been any pedophilia in my church to pay for, rampant or otherwise.

There's never been any pedophilia in my church to pay for, rampant or otherwise.Excellent! Keep it up!

Excellent! Keep it up!

That's the plan. All of our workers undergo a background check or they don't work.

Good news (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0609/23208.html), after shifting porkulus money to get around spending restraints, Democrats have "pledged to turn over a new leaf in 2010, beginning Oct. 1."

Didn't they pledge (http://republicanleader.house.gov/brokenpromises/p_transparency.html) that back in 2006? And you guys fell for it again.

Correct, so the events would have unfolded regardless of who won the presidency. That was my point.

I'll agree to that.

But my point is that while we are in the deepest financial trouble EVER, Obama is pushing spending at an unparalelled rate. His agenda is obiviously NOT economic recovery. So what can it be?

... give it to the government!

At least that's what I heard an old man say a few years back, kinda stuck with me.

Now that the government is inches away from owning one of the largest companies in the world, who knows that interesting turns this will take?

It's a sure fire thing for any company, let it go to an organization with bottomless pockets (the federal government) after all, there is no limit to the amount of money they can borrow right? All it cost is a little inflation, but surely our unemployed masses can afford it.

What's ironic is, I've often said if any private business were ran like the federal government, they'd be bankrupt. Afterall, no business can run in a defecit year after year after year. Of course, I guess if you got big enough and did, you'd just be bought out by the federal government.. err... wait a minute... there is an error in the program here... a loop in the system.

So how much longer before this program crashes and we go the way of Rome and Russia?

Everyone all set to stand in line for stale bread at your local supercenter?

Back in the 60s a blues band called "Ten Years After" wrote a song called "I'd like to Change the World". Here are some of the lyrics from the first verse:

Tax the rich, feed the poor
Till there are no rich no more?

I think that this pretty much sums up the Obama fiscal policy in one sentence.

Elliot

In 1963 Bob Dylan wrote a song called 'The Times They Are a-Changin'. Back then the world must have felt like it was changing fast. Well its changing even faster now. You need to keep up...

Or just hit the bottle and anything else you can get your hands on like Dylan did, and rant on like a raving lunatic.

Eawell... I guess it's going to be all right... going to have to be right? What are we going to do about it anyway, is there a congressmen reading this thread? Mr Obama, are you there?

Didn't think so..

Guess we could pull a lot of songs from that era - blue skies sun shine what a day to take a walk in the park...

You ever stop and wonder if the powers that be, sometimes late at night, sit down in front of their computer and quietly read threads like this? You think any of them have ever taken a stroll through the politcal threads of AMHD? Sometimes I wonder, I mean, they are all human like us. Surely they browse forums once in a while...

Imagine, Obama posting in the electronics forum how to hook up his TV set...

George Will : Have We Got a Deal For You - Townhall.com (http://townhall.com/columnists/GeorgeWill/2009/06/07/have_we_got_a_deal_for_you)




...
Washington mandates that Detroit must build cars for which there is much less demand than Washington demands that there be. Then Washington tries to manufacture demand with a $7,500 tax credit for purchasers of the electric Chevrolet Volt, supposedly GM's salvation. So, GM is to be saved by a product people will not buy without a cash incentive larger than the income tax paid by 83.4 percent of America's families.. .

Besides, the government that runs Amtrak (which has lost $23 billion, in today's dollars, just since 1990) vows to make GM efficient.. .



Washington's "rescue" of GM began because GM is "too big to fail," and bankruptcy is (well, was) "unthinkable." Big? GM's market capitalization, $375.8 million on Wednesday, is about the size of California Pizza Kitchen's ($340 million) -- is it too big to fail? -- and one-eleventh that of Harley-Davidson ($4.3 billion). Fail? If GM has not already failed, New Coke was a success.

The administration is determined to prop up GM as a jobs program for the UAW and Midwestern states rich in electoral votes. This frenzy will intensify as the administration's decisions deepen the debacle.



Maybe Obama and congress can actually use reason and logic rather than emotion and political ambition to make better decisions for this country as a whole.






G&P

What I find interesting is the money Washington poured into GM to avoid bankruptcy, how ever many billion dollars (I've lost count) later, look where GM is.

So what happened to all that money?