The Washington Compost is reporting that stipulations in the Bucket List stimulus bill related to "buy American" clauses ,(discussed here :https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/current-events/spectre-protectionism-awakened-319354.html) ,are creating tensions between us and Canada .


Outrage spread in Canada, with the Toronto Star last week bemoaning "a plague of protectionist measures in the U.S." and Canadian companies openly fretting about having to shift jobs to the United States to meet made-in-the-USA requirements. This week, the Canadians fired back. A number of Ontario towns, with a collective population of nearly 500,000, retaliated with measures effectively barring U.S. companies from their municipal contracts -- the first shot in a larger campaign that could shut U.S. companies out of billions of dollars worth of Canadian projects.

washingtonpost.com (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/14/AR2009051404241.html)

The article goes on the say that the Dems in Congress have pretty much embraced protectionism.



But the number of measures, both proposed and enacted, from the Obama administration and Congress in recent months has raised an alarm among foreign governments, pundits and news media outlets. The buy American provisions in the stimulus package, signed into law in February, were just the beginning. Last week, Obama unveiled a series of proposals aimed at increasing taxes by nearly $200 billion over the next decade on U.S. companies doing business abroad. At a White House event, Obama said the measures were designed to "close corporate loopholes" that permit companies to "pay lower taxes if you create a job in Bangalore, India, than if you create one in Buffalo, N.Y."
Keeping Jobs at Home

A slew of legislative proposals is also aimed at keeping jobs at home. In recent weeks, the House attached additional buy American provisions to a $14 billion clean-water fund that provides loans to local communities and a $6 billion program to finance environmentally friendly school construction projects.


When President Obama went to Canada in Feb. he promised to avoid protectionism ;especially with Canada ,our biggest trading partner. He even introduced language into the bucket list that the bill would not supercede existing agreements.

But Obama's regulators are singing a different tune.

federal authorities have determined that construction projects even partially funded with stimulus dollars must also buy American, dramatically increasing the universe of affected contracts.

Ummmm Mr President... Canada and Mexico are our biggest sources of oil. Since we refuse to drill our own that makes it important that we keep good trade relations with them don'tcha think ? Oh that's right... you bow to the Saudi's .

This Democrat trade war goes beyond US Canada relations .
Duferco Farrell Corp. is a steel plant operating near Pittsburg by a Swiss and Russian partnership.They employee 600 . But their supply like does not conform with the Dems. Idea of what "made in America" means. They are on the verge of shutting down .Already they have furloughed 80% of their work force.

I guess this is what the President means by "saving " jobs.

One of their major customers, who also operate in the area ,had to cancel orders from them because of these buy American provisions.
“You need to tell me how inhibiting business between two companies located one mile apart is going to save American jobs,” said Bob Miller, Duferco Farrell's executive VP.

Perhaps trade wars are inevidible during severe economic down turns .But the lesson of the Great Depression is that trade wars prolonged the misery . The bucket list and other legislative proposals filtering through Congress now with "buy American" clauses are looking ominously like Smoot-Hawley II.

Tom, didn't the Dems campaign on something about not pi$$ing off (or is it on) the rest of the world any more?

Yeah that and supporting labor.

yeah that and supporting labor.

Well Obama is doing a damn good job of that (http://townhall.com/columnists/MichelleMalkin/2009/05/13/big_labors_investment_in_obama_pays_off).

Yes Malkin hits on my point .The rank and file has gotten the shaft from Obama so far .

Stuff like this is what triggers tit-for-tat trade wars.



The Federation of Canadian Municipalities endorsed a controversial proposal to support communities that refuse to buy products from countries that put trade restrictions on products and services from Canada.
The measure is a response to a provision in the U.S. economic stimulus package passed by Congress in February that says public works projects should use iron, steel and other goods made in the United States.
The United States is Canada's largest trading partner, and Canadians have complained the restrictions will bar their companies from billions of dollars in business that they have previously had access to.
"This U.S. protectionist policy is hurting Canadian firms, costing Canadian jobs and damaging Canadian efforts to grow our economy in the midst of a worldwide recession," said Sherbrooke, Quebec, Mayor Jean Perrault, also president of the federation that represents cities and towns across Canada.

Canadians angered over Buy American rule | Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/ousiv/idUSTRE5551NE20090606)


Canadians angered over Buy American rule | Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/ousiv/idUSTRE5551NE20090606)

Sooo, does this mean that they will buy only CanadiAn owned car companies? Wait, there are no car companies owned by Canadians. So what will they buy to replace their American cars and trucks when they need new ones?

Same as Americans do... they will buy Japanese.

Sooo, does this mean that they will buy only CanadiAn owned car companies? Wait, there are no car companies owned by Canadians. So what will they buy to replace their American cars and trucks when they need new ones?

Like everyone else, Toyotas and Hondas. By the way, did anyone notice that the Ford F-Series was still the best selling vehicle last month (http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2009/06/top-10-bestselling-cars-may-2009.html)? Kind of contradicts Obama's claim that Americans want smaller more fuel efficient cars don't you think?

Like everyone else, Toyotas and Hondas. By the way, did anyone notice that the Ford F-Series was still the best selling vehicle last month (http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2009/06/top-10-bestselling-cars-may-2009.html)? Kind of contradicts Obama's claim that Americans want smaller more fuel efficient cars don't you think?From the comments on that site:

I don't understand how the sales of the entire F series of Ford pickups can be compared to one particular model from another manufacturer.
Does the "F series" include all F150's, F250's, F350's, and F450's? If so then the comparison is unfair because many of those vehicles are commercial vehicles, not passenger vehicles.

From the comments on that site:

Irrelevant to my point. More Ford F series pickups were sold in May than any other vehicle. The Ford F-150 was the best seller in 2008 for the 27th consecutive year (http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/daily-news/090107-The-Ten-Best-Selling-Vehicles-of-2008/). The Chevy Silverado was no. 2 and if combined with the GMC version it outsold the F-150. It still contradicts Obama's claim that Americans want smaller fuel efficient cars.

I'm an American I just bought a fuel efficient car from Japan because the US does not make a hybrid under 20,000 but Honda does. So did my neighbor a block away (she bought the same car different color) oh and the guy at the Wachovia I go to he bought the same model and color. I had a 20 minutes conversation with him about how we both felt bad because this is the first time either one of us has bought a foreign car. So maybe we do want fuel efficient cars.

I'm an American I just bought a a fuel efficient car from Japan because the US does not make a hybrid under 20,000 but Honda does. So did my neighbor a block away (she bought the same car different color) oh and the guy at the Wachovia I go to he bought the same model and color. I had a 20 minutes conversation with him about how we both felt bad because this is the first time either one of us has bought a foreign car. So maybe we do want fuel efficient cars.

Of course many Americans do, but full-size pickups - regardless of whether they are for commercial use - have led the way for decades. Personally I don't feel bad about owning 2 Toyotas, I haven't purchased an American made vehicle since 1984. That's the free market, I wanted and got dependable, low-maintenance vehicles... something I found lacking in American models.

The American car companies need to realize that while their bread and butter have been trucks (which we need) there are people like me who are technology geeks who are young not really car people but need something dependable and that is great on gas.

I can change my own oil and tires and everything like that but when it comes down to it I don't care how fast a car can go 0-60 (it gets up to 80 with no problem), I don't care about horsepower. All I care about is I don't have to spend a lot of time in the shop (that is where my cougar spent most of it's time) and I get great MPG. I filled up on May 29th and I probably won't fill up again until this Thursday or Friday.

Well maybe gvt. Ownership will spark competitiveness and innovation. But I kind of doubt it. I think 450donn has a point. Obama and co. will try to jumpstart their new investments with some protectionism. Good thing you purchased your hybrid now.

From the comments on that site:

The comment understates the ignorance of a pick up trucks sales. VARIETY in one model line. The big three have full size p/u lines that have so many choices [ short, standard, long bed, regular cab, extended cab, full back seats, 2wd, 4wd, dualies, diesel or gas engines of varying size, etc.. ] and this is part of the reason for their success.

Of course GM has a lot of Canadian auto plants, so Obama stirring up a trade war is like stirring up a trade war with the company that he, the UAW, and the american taxpayors now own. Brilliant move :rolleyes:

GM's Canadian Plants Once Again Lead the Way in Productivity according to this Year's Harbour Report (http://media.gm.com/ca/gm/en/news/releases/archived%20releases/4d2419306c21cbd6852572ec006970d1.htm)

What Obama fails to realize is that there is ----

America's 'other' auto industry | csmonitor.com (http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/1205/p01s04-usec.html)


That provide thousands of jobs, and they will provide that many more jobs than GM and Chrysler will.




G&P

2010 Chevy Camaro SS vs. 2010 Ford Mustang GT, 2009 Dodge Challenger R/T - Coupes/Comparison Test/Reviews/Car and Driver - Car And Driver (http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparison_test/coupes/2010_chevy_camaro_ss_vs_2010_ford_mustang_gt_2009_ dodge_challenger_r_t_comparison_test)


I'm a car guy, and I love acceleration and speed, handling, good looks, value in the vehicle I drive. God love the big 3 for making these muscle cars, though in this day and age they are obsolete.



G&P

One of these days I'm going to have to buy a Mustang just because my wife loves them. The last big car we bought was a big red 71 Monte Carlo .
http://www.google.com/images?q=tbn:VzuUPK0Wm3X0ZM::www.noneckschevelle.c om/images/carpics/JerryHodges71MonteCarlo.jpg (http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.noneckschevelle.com/images/carpics/JerryHodges71MonteCarlo.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.noneckschevelle.com/toc.htm&h=346&w=600&sz=50&tbnid=VzuUPK0Wm3X0ZM:&tbnh=78&tbnw=135&prev=/images%3Fq%3D71%2Bmonte%2Bcarlo&hl=en&usg=__aAyZTu-fdJrXojfDe_5TNspp9p0=&ei=5EgtSuuLHJasMoHZsc0J&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=1&ct=image)

It was also the last car I was able to stick my head under the hood and actually work on (besides oil changes)

Maybe I am reading this wrong but doesn't the Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America basically make us do business with Canada and Mexico? SPP Home (http://www.spp.gov/)

So does NAFTA . We already know from the campaign last year that Obama doesn't like those treaties .

The bucket list Stimulus law had clear restrictions on the purchase of foreign goods and services .

one of these days I'm gonna have to buy a Mustang just because my wife loves them. The last big car we bought was a big red 71 Monte Carlo .
http://www.google.com/images?q=tbn:VzuUPK0Wm3X0ZM::www.noneckschevelle.c om/images/carpics/JerryHodges71MonteCarlo.jpg (http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.noneckschevelle.com/images/carpics/JerryHodges71MonteCarlo.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.noneckschevelle.com/toc.htm&h=346&w=600&sz=50&tbnid=VzuUPK0Wm3X0ZM:&tbnh=78&tbnw=135&prev=/images%3Fq%3D71%2Bmonte%2Bcarlo&hl=en&usg=__aAyZTu-fdJrXojfDe_5TNspp9p0=&ei=5EgtSuuLHJasMoHZsc0J&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=1&ct=image)

It was also the last car I was able to stick my head under the hood and actually work on (besides oil changes)


Yeah I remember what big cars were good for also :) There are just some things you can't do in a compact car.





G&P

Yeah that too.