Greetings,

I have a JD Sabre 1546G with a briggs engine and have had a wicked time solving my no-starting/turnover issue. Going on 2 years of frustration.

1. I have already replaced both the starter switch and the solenoid.

2. Nothing changed when I did either of these. Nothing at all.

Issue: When I turn the key, there is a loud clunk/click from the solenoid area and the engine does not turn over.

It starts right up when I jump the posts on the solenoid.

I have checked all of the switches for belt drive, seat, and brake and they all work just fine.

Other than this starting issue the tractor runs perfect.

:confused:

Dean in IL.

I would check the ground at the solenoid. Try using your jumper cables negative cable and connect one end to the negative post on your mowers battery and the other end to one of the mounting bolts on the solenoid and see what happens. If this works we just have to figure out why it's not grounding.

Best idea I've heard in, well, 2 years.

I will try it by the end of the week and post back.

Thank You

Dean.

I've had bad new selonoids at times. If grounding isn't an issue then check these steps.

Check the battery. Check for a loose connection. Remove the corrosion on the terminals, if any.

2. Check the switch. Make sure there are no loose connections and check with a test light if the switch is any good.

3. Check battery for charge. It must have at least 12 volts.

4. Check the starter. If the battery is good, check the voltage to the starter by taking a volt meter and grounding the black probe to a good ground and touching the red probe to the starter terminal. Turn the key. If all 12 volts are going to the starter and the engine still will not crank, then starter must be repaired. If less than 12 volts are going to the starter, check for exposed areas in the wiring which could cause a partial ground or corrosion. Remove the corrosion, if any, and tape up the wire with electrical tape.

5. Check the starter solenoid. After all the above checks have been done, finally check the starter solenoid. To check the solenoid, remove the wire from spade terminal. With a screw driver, touch the spade terminal and the hot side of the solenoid. If the starter turns, the starter solenoid is good and there is a problem in the safety switches. The solenoid is usually located on the back side of the accessories panel, in the engine compartment, on Riders and Tractors. On Rear Engine Riders, the solenoid is located under the seat or in a seprate compartment. Follow the Positive (Red) battery cable to find the solenoid.

6. No Ground. Check the ground cable at the battery and where it connects to the engine or chassis of the power equipment. Replace if necessary cable if necessary.

7. Worn Brushes. Remove the starter and remove the end cap. Do this slowly as the brushes will fly out if you are not looking for them. If you have brushes from another starter, simply replace the brushes, or replace the end cap if brushes are not available. You must use brushes from the same starter as the one you are fixing.

I've had bad new selonoids at times. If grounding isn't an issue then check these steps.

Check the battery. Check for a loose connection. Remove the corrosion on the terminals, if any.

2. Check the switch. Make sure there are no loose connections and check with a test light if the switch is any good.

3. Check battery for charge. It must have atleast 12 volts.

4. Check the starter. If the battery is good, check the voltage to the starter by taking a volt meter and grounding the black probe to a good ground and touching the red probe to the starter terminal. Turn the key. If all 12 volts are going to the starter and the engine still will not crank, then starter must be repaired. If less than 12 volts are going to the starter, check for exposed areas in the wiring which could cause a partial ground or corrosion. Remove the corrosion, if any, and tape up the wire with electrical tape.

5. Check the starter solenoid. After all the above checks have been done, finally check the starter solenoid. To check the solenoid, remove the wire from spade terminal. With a screw driver, touch the spade terminal and the hot side of the solenoid. If the starter turns, the starter solenoid is good and there is a problem in the safety switches. The solenoid is usually located on the back side of the accessories panel, in the engine compartment, on Riders and Tractors. On Rear Engine Riders, the solenoid is located under the seat or in a seprate compartment. Follow the Positive (Red) battery cable to find the solenoid.

6. No Ground. Check the ground cable at the battery and where it connects to the engine or chassis of the power equipment. Replace if necessary cable if necessary.

7. Worn Brushes. Remove the starter and remove the end cap. Do this slowly as the brushes will fly out if you are not looking for them. If you have brushes from another starter, simply replace the brushes, or replace the end cap if brushes are not available. You must use brushes from the same starter as the one you are fixing.

Greetings 21boat, and thanks for the answer!

I will post back as I go here with all the suggestions tried.

Thanks

Dean.

I would check the ground at the solenoid. Try using your jumper cables negative cable and connect one end to the negative post on your mowers battery and the other end to one of the mounting bolts on the solenoid and see what happens. If this works we just have to figure out why it's not grounding.

OK, I finally had a chance to dig into the starting issuetoday.

I did the negative jumper as above, to both mounting bolts and even tried to contact the bottom of the solenoid itself, and nothing changed at all.

Now?

I've had bad new selonoids at times. If grounding isn't an issue then check these steps.

Check the battery. Check for a loose connection. Remove the corrosion on the terminals, if any.

2. Check the switch. Make sure there are no loose connections and check with a test light if the switch is any good.

3. Check battery for charge. It must have atleast 12 volts.

4. Check the starter. If the battery is good, check the voltage to the starter by taking a volt meter and grounding the black probe to a good ground and touching the red probe to the starter terminal. Turn the key. If all 12 volts are going to the starter and the engine still will not crank, then starter must be repaired. If less than 12 volts are going to the starter, check for exposed areas in the wiring which could cause a partial ground or corrosion. Remove the corrosion, if any, and tape up the wire with electrical tape.

5. Check the starter solenoid. After all the above checks have been done, finally check the starter solenoid. To check the solenoid, remove the wire from spade terminal. With a screw driver, touch the spade terminal and the hot side of the solenoid. If the starter turns, the starter solenoid is good and there is a problem in the safety switches. The solenoid is usually located on the back side of the accessories panel, in the engine compartment, on Riders and Tractors. On Rear Engine Riders, the solenoid is located under the seat or in a seprate compartment. Follow the Positive (Red) battery cable to find the solenoid.

6. No Ground. Check the ground cable at the battery and where it connects to the engine or chassis of the power equipment. Replace if necessary cable if necessary.

7. Worn Brushes. Remove the starter and remove the end cap. Do this slowly as the brushes will fly out if you are not looking for them. If you have brushes from another starter, simply replace the brushes, or replace the end cap if brushes are not available. You must use brushes from the same starter as the one you are fixing.

OK 21, I have gone right down the line with your suggestions today.

1. Cable are fine, I am a bit obsessive about them. It starts fine across the solenoid as well.

2. The switch is new, and tests out fine.

3. Battery is new and work perfect as well.

4. Checked starter, no voltage to starter with key operation. Followed wires back as well as I could and there is no visible corrosion at all.

5. The solenoid trick works fine. That is how I start the tractor now.
The safety switches seem to all work fine. Each one seems to do its "kill" job when triggered. I checked the seat, mower deck, & brake pedal. May I have missed one?

6. Cables are fine as described above.

7. Starter works fine, no problems at all.


Now what should I do?

I have checked all of the switches for belt drive, seat, and brake and they all work just fine.

How do you know they all work fine? How was that tested? It doesn't count after the motor is started... Then one that counts is when the seat recognizes a rider sitting in the seat to let the solenoid work to "START" the engine/ After that its all about the ignition coil shut down to kill spark and stop engine..

"The key turning to start the engine " If that clicks the solenoid, then it's a (new/ bad) solenoid, or the wiring is wrong there, or the grounding is not there. Being able to jump the solenoid it and its grounding out of the loop brings us back to the solenoid.

Three things cancel out the electromagnetic in the solenoid no power to it (which you have proved jumping it from ignition switch). Bad grounding on the solenoid or the electromagnetic end is not working inside the solenoid.

I'm not sure how yours is rigged but newer solenoids on mowers are grounded through a safety switch system. If that safety switch is open then all you will get is a click.

Chase back that grounding wire off the solenoid to a safety switch.

Or just disconnect the ground off the solenoid. Run a separate Temp jumper wire form the solenoid and ground the other end of that jumper wire. Turn Key to start engine. If it starts then the ground is not working for the solenoid.

Then its back to the safety switch being bad or not grounding when you sit on the mower.

The rest of the safety switches kills the ignition coil and stops engine.

Disconnect the ground off of the solenoid. Run a separate Temp jumper wire form the solenoid and ground the other end of that jumper wire. Turn Key to start engine. If it starts then the ground is not working for the solenoid.

Then its back to the safety switch being bad or not grounding when you sit on the mower.

The rest of the safety switches kills the ignition coil and stops engine.

Which wire would the ground be off the solenoid?
I used jumper cables and hooked the ground to the battery ground and then to the mount bolt on the solenoid. That is all I could figure for a safe check without getting more details.

What you say about the system being grounded through the safety switches makes perfect sense.

I checked the seat switch with my Ohm meter and when the plug is disconnected, I hooked my meter wires to the 2 prongs on the plug. At first my meter gave me a "1", which shows open. When I pushed on the seat it clicked and the meter read "0" which showed closed.
I believe this is correct for the seat switch.

All of the other switches work properly in their "killing" of the engine when engaged when off the seat ( Blades & brake ).

Is there any more I am missing?

Thanks again

Dean.

This seems as if it's a compression lock of the engine. I'm dealing with, and trying to solve a periodic, no start problem. It's very hard to turn the engine, when it's in this condition. The starter will smoke, and make an attempt, with no results. On some occasions, if you rock it the right way, you'll get it to start. I was trying to figure out if it was an interlock problem, but the more I check into it, it seems to be that the engine is suffering from a compression lock.

Kevinmatthewssr

You are on another thread.

Its one question per thread

Gets to confusing this way and to many pages long.

RE post and click "ask a question" and pic your catergory. This way you get full service..

dno36

Solenoids are basically grounded two ways. One is the bolt mounting and one is a side tab that usually slips on the solenoid on the side of the unit and that goes to seat Jump the seat ground with a wire or as I said earlier reground the solenoid switch and temp bypass the seat safety

http://www.arcomarine.com/xhtml/Tech%20marine%20circuts.pdf

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2616&d=1202377668

Is it a compression lock? I have a 1998 sabre that just quit stating after a heavy mow. It turns once and only once in a while. I changed the battery and starter. I t acted the same, except gas spilled out all over the floor. Did I crack the block or blow a head gasket?