Ok our 17 year heat pump went out yesterday... $600.00 plus to fix so we are replacing here is the dilemma!
We replaced the system under the house two years ago R-22. Now we are debating on replacing the whole system.

Everyone who came out today had a different story.

First our house is 1850 sq footage. One suggested 3 tons, one 3.5 tons and one 4 tons?
All suggested replacing the whole unit. Of course it is a lot more money about $3500.00 more. THey stated the system will not function correctly unless we replace both. THey also stated that the r-22 will be totally obsolete in a year.

The seer rating suggested was a seer 16.9 or 18? I am not sure that is worth the $$$. Sure you get a tx break on the 15 or higher... is the 18 better than the 15? Do we need a 2-stage cooling in NC?

Last the prices are a huge range... we are looking at Bryant, COmfortmaker or Lennox... any suggestions? We are leaning towards a 15 seer Bryant 3.0 ton priced at 6799.00 installed is that a decent price. Thanks so much... obviously price is a huge issue but we want to be a smart and educated buyer. If one is better for more then I am willing to pay extra... just can't justify $3000.00 more because it is a more efficient unit.

Confused and Frustrated!

Shelli
Charlotte

Ok first of all I see not need to change the indoor unit if it is this new. Also living in Nc I see no need for anything over a 14 seer. R-22 is on the way out but it will still be obtainable for a long time. And when I checked your sf I got 2.47 tons so I would think a 3 ton would do just fine. What size unit do you have now??

Our unit now is a 3 ton unit (heat pump) the air handler under the house is 3.5. It was replaced in late 2006. The heat pump is 17 years old and the last year or so was running a lot. I am guessing because it was older and not real efficient. Is there a benefit to changing the whole system out? I thnik we are more inclined to stay with another 3 ton. Any input is much appreciated. Thank you sooo much!

Well, if you change he whole system you can get the new 410 freon. But as you saw the price will be more expencive. I would think the 3 ton is the right size and would not switch from that. Any other questions ask away.

What brand do you have now?

If it was me I would replace just the heatpump, as for r-22, it will be around for several years to come, it might be a little expensive but it will be here. And besides if the unit is installed right, you souldn`t have a need to worry about the freon,, it doesn`t wear out, it only leaks out and that is the fought od shoddy instalation. I`ve have replace 25 year old unites that have never had freon added,, as for the 16-18 seer heatpump its your call,but it will take many years to revamp the extra bucks you put out for it,, 13-14 seer heatpump will serve you great in NC and you shouldn`t need to replace a 2 year old furnace/airhandler what so ever

But I`m sure you will find some who will disagree, I just can seem to sleep at night if I`ve taken someone's money unneccessarly

Not sure what the heat pump is... the air handler is a Payne?

One said if the air handler goes out in a year or two we would then have to replace the whole system is that true? ANother said the r-22 is going to be ridicously expensive to fix if any issues in the future because the parts will be obsolete.

Pricing ranges from $2600.00-4500.00 just too replace the heat pump is that about right. Is there a brand that is better than another... do we need to stick with Payne? Thanks!

No this is not true, and there is nothing that should cause your airhandler to go out all it is is a blower. You will be able to get parts for that unit for 20 more yrs. There is no way they will phase r-22 out that fast. Outdoor units will run from the price range that you stated, main thing to look for is the warranty of the compressor and the parts warranty. Payne is about the same as a carrier.

No real ned to stick with payne, if the installation is done right one is as good as the other, talk to the contrators about warranty,, on parts -equipment -and labor warranty,, the one that's willing to stand behind his work and equipment is the best company,, ask check with BBB ,and ask for referances

Quote for the heat pump is

13HPD 042-230-r-22 Heat pump Condenser only Lennox $2563.00

Another priced a Bryant R-22 for $3300.00
Last was a Comfortmaker for $4800.00 condenser only.

The last guy was very high in his prices... almost 40%-50% higher... basically telling me that we get what we pay for, and his company is the only one around that have tech's that know what they are doing, 7 day service and back ground checks on all techs. I just don't see paying extra for small perks that most other places offer.

If we just replace the condenser... what else should we make sure they do? Thanks y'all!

One more question... what kind of warranty should the condenser carry? WHat is good? What is medicore?

There is no way a comfortmaker should cost more then a lennox, the problem with lennox is that they are very hard to get parts for. Unless you always go threw a lennox dealer. Bryant is the same as carrier and would be the closest to your payne. Make sure you will be getting a new t-stat, and I would put a txv valve on the indoor unit for better operation if it does not already have one.

Most now have 10 yrs on compressor and 5 on parts this is standered but you can up grade

Thanks so much... typically the price they give the first time is that negotiable at all?

I will check all the warranties? And check the BBB and go with my gutt after gettting that info. I think sticking with the Condenser is the best bet.

THanks for answering all my questions! At least it is not August and 100 degrees out... so I don't have to make a hasty decision.

Thanks a lot! You all are the best! I will let you know if I have any more questions!

Was the price written? Or just a verbal quote? If it was written then it is probably final. But if your prices are close and you like the more expencive one then just tell them what the other price is and see if they will match it. It will all depend on how busy they are.

Also as I was saying I see no reason for you to put the money into a 16 or 18 seer unit so going with a 13 or 14 seer will save you about $400 - $600 dollars

How do you go from 3 to 4 tons? At this point, I'm not trusting anybody.

The ONLY way to justify AC sizing is by doing a Manual J (sizing) or manual D (Ductwork sizing) calculations. Period.

If you's like to do your own sizing see: HVAC-Calc HVAC Software The Heat Loss Calculator HVAC, HVAC/R, HVA (http://www.hvac-calc.com/)

Ductwork is a bigger problem. The ducts have to support the size too.

Two stage is always going to save you money especially, I believe in NC where the climate isn't too bad.

The choice of which SEER rating to get depends on:
1. Climate
2. How often do you use your AC
3. Cost of energy

The R-22 thing can basically be boiled down to Pay now or pay later. Nothing more, nothing less.

R410 systems are larger. Changing from22 to R-410 may require a new lineset or thouroughly flushing your lineset.

I'll leave you with this, too:

What is SEER, Definition of Air Conditioning Equipment SEER Ratings (http://www.inspect-ny.com/aircond/aircond04.htm#bannertop)

You seem to be throwing money at an unknown problem.

The inside unit (coil) and the outside unit need to be matched in order to get the SEER advertised and in order to qualify. There are spcecific qualification rules for what qualifies for the energy credit and it involves a high efficiency unit.

Get the manual J done or do it yourself. The ductwork has to be able to support about 350 to 400 CFM (cubic foot/minute) per ton of AC.

Somebody seems to be putting the cart before the horse.

One big difference is that you can put both cold and hot air returns in a house. Basically return ducts that can be turned on and off by season. One at the top and one at the floor level.

Bigger is not always better. You want an AC unit to have long run times to dehumidify in the summer.

You should consider zoning or even two separate units.

I'm not happy with what I'm hearing from you.

Who installs it and how it's installed makes as much difference as what is installed. I'm questioning "What should be installed" and "What can be installed".

All quotes to do the change over did include a new lineset.

In all calculations and everyone I have talked to... 3 tons seem to be sufficient.
We are not looking at having the best sytems on the block. Sure a seer 16 or 18 is more efficient but to be honest so will a new heat pump condenser. Our unit is 17 years old... the air handler is 3. Our duct work was replcaed when we put the new air handler in. We have had 3 estimates with reputable companies and I have checked the BBB on all three. We have another estimate being done in the am with the same people who put in the air handler. Quite honestly we need to get a reliable fix without breaking the bank, and that is what we are trying to do. Thanks so much for your input and I will look at some other estimates.

What did they say was wrong with your old unit?? And why do all quotes have a new lineset was your old one to small?

Also we know if we do not replace the whole unit we will not get the energy credit... that is OK. Paying 6500.00 more for a $1500.00 tax credit if we qualify is not important.

The old unit they said the dual capictor failed, the freon was low and it had a leak in the line that goes into the top side of the unit? (capillary tube is cracked) It has 1 lb of freon in it. He said the small line was a tough line to fix? It is 17 years old and the repair was going to be $800.00 this quote was from the expensive company out of all the quotes.

Wow prices there are way higher then here. Lets see a $65 service call then a $45 dollar capasitor, 5lbs of new freon $70, plus 2 hrs of labor to fix the unit. $80. So around $260 + tax here.

The service call was $89.95

Repair leak says $642.00 with freon , etc. (said he was not sure that would work because the leak was in a bad spot?)
45/5 capacitor $233.00

Thinking I was getting ripped off... priceless! :)

Freaon he said would be $300.00... we knew something was not quite right with that.

233 for a capasitor that is a rip off lol. Well hope I help clear some things up for you. If you have anymore qusetions just look me up on here or email me

Thanks!! Have a great night!

You too!