Ok all you experts. Is this for real or a total fabrication?



Former presidential candidate Alan Keyes has given perhaps his most dire warning yet, saying that the Obama administration is preparing to stage terror attacks, declare martial law and cancel the 2012 elections, which is why they are demonizing their political enemies as criminals and terrorists.



Keyes is best known for his performance during the 2000 Republican presidential debates, when he was accredited by many media outlets as being the clear winner during a series of debates with George W. Bush and John McCain.



“It’s obvious that they will stop at nothing,” Keyes told attendees of a reception in Fort Wayne, adding, “We may wake up one day and there’s a series of terrorist attacks, the economy is paralysed….martial law will be declared everywhere in the United States and it won’t end until the crisis ends.”



Keyes said that Americans should be thankful if they even see another election in 2012, stating, “If we don’t wake up and work to see that it happens, we will not see another election.”



“The minute they think they can get away with it, they will end this system of government and that is their intention,” added Keyes, noting that everyone acting as if the time we are in was just “business as usual” reminds him of the attitude of politicians in the Weimar Republic when Hitler was rising to power or eastern Europe when the Communists were taking over after the second world war.



Keyes said that because the majority of people are decent-minded, they believe others will play by the rules when this simply isn’t the case, warning that this attitude will allow evil to take over before we can do anything about it.





“It is so clear hat we have now put a faction in place - they are not playing by the rules and they don’t intend to play by the rules - if they were playing by the rules they wouldn’t have tried to identify their opposition as criminals,” added Keyes, making reference to the recent controversy surrounding the release of the MIAC and Homeland Security reports, which implied that Americans who exercise and are knowledgeable about their constitutional rights are a threat to law enforcement and potential domestic terrorists.



Keyes said that the only solution was from the bottom up because our leaders “are so gutless that they won’t even ask that the Constitution be enforced for clear, plain, absolutely unequivocal requirements,” and respond meekly with “their lips shut and their hearts terrorized.”



Keyes also warned of Obama’s agenda to create a civilian security force and said it was part of the ultimate agenda to disarm American citizens and create a police state.



Keyes has been a vocal critic of Obama, warning that he is a radical Communist who is determined to destroy America , and that if his agenda is not stopped then the country as we know it will cease to exist.

Clearly a whack job. He should be placed in a mental institution.

What are your thoughts Gal? You believe him?

Yes he is... but why is it that when he suggests such things he's a whack job... but the lefty's who claimed for years that President Bush was responsible for 9-11; would suspend the elections and was building concentration camps were considered credible ? Michael Moore made a fortune and was invited to the Democrat convention based on such pablum .

I don't pay much attention to Keyes. But he's no worse than the wackos on the other side railing over the coming Bush theocracy. Or like Harvey Wasserman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvey_Wasserman) & Bob Fitrakis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Fitrakis) that warned of Bush canceling last year's election (http://www.onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_2255.shtml).


It is time to think about the "unthinkable."

The Bush administration has both the inclination and the power to cancel the 2008 election.

The GOP strategy for another electoral theft in 2008 has taken clear shape, though we must assume there is much more we don't know.

But we must also assume that if it appears to Team Bush/Cheney/Rove that the GOP will lose the 2008 election anyway (as it lost in Ohio 2006), we cannot ignore the possibility that they would simply cancel the election. Those who think this crew will quietly walk away from power are simply not paying attention.

The real question is not how or when they might do it. It's how, realistically, we can stop them.

My actual interest is whether Keyes actually said it or whether it is an attempt to discredit him.

Keyes does have some national standing, after all.

To answer Skell, after thinking it over, I doubt it would come down that way. Obama would have to abandon his early Islamic training and also his purported conversion to Christianity.

The "what if" scenario that I posted earlier could produce the same result, but Obama's role would be that of martyr rather than dictator.

YouTube - Dr. Alan Keyes says, Obama will stage Terror Attacks and declare Martial Law (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUE2ApL-Fpo)

I don't know whether Keyes said it or not. I also do not know whether it is Obama's intention... though I would tend to doubt it.

However, I believe that it is a good thing that we have a 2nd Amendment, and the POSSIBILITY that something like this could happen is the very reason the 2nd Amendment was put in place in the first place.

That said, considering that there is a 2nd Amendment, and that the NRA estimates that there are over 300 million guns of varying types in the hands of American citizens, I doubt that Obama could get away with such an attempt if he tried.

Even if he were to call in the Army to put down any uprisings against such actions, and even if the military were to ignore the posse comitatus laws, the military would be outnumbered on the order of 300 to 1.

And that assumes that every soldier, marine, sailor, national guardsman and airman were to be fully trained for ground combat operations. (Generally only one soldier in ten is a combat soldier in the real world.)

Yes, the soldiers have better equipment (tanks, planes, etc.) but the correlation of forces would still be severely in favor of the civilian population. (That is why the 2nd Amendment was created by the founders... smart bunch of guys there. They WANTED the military to be outgunned by the civilian population to prevent the very situation that the original post suggests.) So I am not all that worried about such an attempt at a political/military coup by Obama.

Elliot

First I never believed the people who said that Bush had something to do with 9-11. Second If Obama or anyone did that I would be standing next to you with my gun. Yes this lefty owns a Walther P99. And I go to the shooting range regularly.

First I never believed the people who said that Bush had something to do with 9-11. Second If Obama or anyone did that I would be standing next to you with my gun. Yes this lefty owns a Walther P99. And I go to the shooting range regularly.

Good for you!

But let's see if you are really a leftie.

Glen Beck has been giving as concise a description of left and right that I have seen. It goes like this:

The extreme left would have to be totalitarian govt. It controls ALL details. If that is so, then the opposite (right) would have to be anarchy. No govt controls at all.

What we want is something between the two extremes.

Now your comment leads me to believe that there are some things about your life that you DO NOT want the gov. controlling. You do not want totalitarianism. Therefore you may not be the leftie that you thought. Right?

Yes he is .....but why is it that when he suggests such things he's a whack job ....but the lefty's who claimed for years that President Bush was responsible for 9-11;Hello tom:

The difference is the whack jobs on the left would never be taken seriously for the job as president. Your whack job WAS.

excon

So I am not all that worried about such an attempt at a political/military coup by Obama.Hello El:

Psssst. He's the president. He doesn't need to stage a coup.

excon

Good for you!

But let's see if you are really a leftie.

Glen Beck has been giving as concise a descripton of left and right that I have seen. It goes like this:

The extreme left would have to be totalitarian govt. It controls ALL details. If that is so, then the opposite (right) would have to be anarchy. No govt controls at all.

What we want is something between the two extremes.

Now your comment leads me to believe that there are some things about your life that you DO NOT want the gov. controlling. You do not want totalitarianism. Therefore you may not be the leftie that you thought. Right?

Hey Gal,
Your are correct I am not the extreme left. I do not personally know a single person that wants total gov control. In 2000 I was just about to pull the lever for Bush but switched at the last minute. I do not vote straight Dem. Until a year ago I was an Independent I only switched to Dem for the PA primary. The thing that stops me from being a republican is the religious aspect of the party. It is such a turn off that I want nothing to do with it. A lot of people my age (31) feel the same way.

The "what if" scenario that I posted earlier could produce the same result, but Obama's role would be that of martyr rather than dictator.Hello again, gal:

You are still clinging to this warped conspiracy theory about Obama's death. Please send me a copy of the email so that I can investigate who is saying this crap. You're not making this up by yourself.

On to other matters. Beck is wrong. Tyranny can come from the left OR the right. Consider that the right wants to make all sorts of laws about how you conduct your PERSONAL life, like what you smoke, who you screw, who you marry, and on and on.

excon

On to other matters. Beck is wrong. Tyranny can come from the left OR the right. Consider that the right wants to make all sorts of laws about how you conduct your PERSONAL life, like what you smoke, who you screw, who you marry, and on and on.

Yeah, the left just wants to tell you what to think, what to say, what to eat, what to drive, what to listen to on the radio or watch on TV and keep you from owning a gun. That's much more bearable.

Yeah, the left just wants to tell you what to think, what to say, what to eat, what to drive, what to listen to on the radio or watch on TV and keep you from owning a gun. That's much more bearable.Hello again, Steve:

Tyranny from the left or the right sucks either way. But, to proclaim that BECKS side is free from tyrannical practices is the ultimate hypocrisy.

excon

Hello again, Steve:

Tyranny from the left or the right sucks either way. But, to proclaim that BECKS side is free from tyrannical practices is the ultimate hypocrisy.

excon

No argument there, I just find your examples to be much less sinister than the thought police.

Hello El:

Psssst. He's the president. He doesn't need to stage a coup.

excon

He does if he wants to become "President For Life" like Hugo Chavez or the Castro boys.

Again, we are assuming that Keyes' statements about what Obama intends are true.

IF Obama wants to become a life-appointee,
IF he plans on using some sort of national emergency to declare a martial law to halt the election process, which would be a political coup,
IF he plans on using the military to enforce his martial law, which would be a military coup,
IF the military goes along with it and ignores posse comitatus,
THEN we can be happy that the citizens of the USA outgun and outnumber the military by a factor of at least 300:1.

That is the essence of my post.

Elliot

Again, we are assuming that Keyes' statements about what Obama intends are true. Hello again, El:

No! YOU'RE assuming it. It's drek, foolishness, stupid, off the wall, and highly conspiratorial. In short, it mirrors your thoughts pretty damn closely. I do NOT address crap like that.

excon

Again, we are assuming that Keyes' statements about what Obama intends are true. nah it's just you. It seems to fulfill some masturbatory fantasy for you.

Hey Gal,
Your are correct I am not the extreme left. I do not personally know a single person that wants total gov control.

Really?

Let's see:

The left wants to control your right to bear arms.
The left wants to control religious expression in public.
The left wants to control how much money you can earn or keep.
The left wants to control which doctors you see, what medical technologies you can use, what medical procedures you can be given.
The left wants to control how warm you keep your house, and what you use to keep it warm.
The left wants to control what you can drive and how you fuel your car.
The left wants to control what you can plant and how you plant it.
The left wants to control what foods you eat and what you drink.
The left wants to control what you can hear on the radio.
The left wants to control the education system.
The left wants to control your retirement funding.
The left wants to control what lightbulbs you use.
The left wants to control what businesses can produce and what people can consume.
The left even wants to control your toilets.

In fact, I cannot think of a single aspect of our lives that the left DOESN'T want to control. Every single one of the things that I mentioned above are based on laws legislated into existence by the left in this country or "decided into existence" by the courts. Or in one case, it is based on something currently being pushed by the Obama Administration, and which is likely to come into existence shortly.

YOU may not want total control by the government. And neither may any single individuak you know. But if you put all the various goals of the left together as a whole, what you find is that COLLECTIVELY the left wants to control EVERY SINGLE ASPECT of our lives.


In 2000 I was just about to pull the lever for Bush but switched at the last minute. I do not vote straight Dem. Until a year ago I was an Independent I only switched to Dem for the PA primary. The thing that stops me from being a republican is the religious aspect of the party. It is such a turn off that I want nothing to do with it. A lot of people my age (31) feel the same way.

Spit, are you saying that because you don't like religion you can't be a Republican?

Geeze, talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.

As a Jew, I tend to cringe quite a bit at the Christian right. But I don't base my beliefe system on what OTHER people think, say or do. I am a Conservative because I believe in conservative fundamental philosophies. I joined the Republican party and vote for Conservative and Republican candidates because their philosophies are more in line with mine that those of Democrats and liberals. The fact that some other people in the party have religious beliefes that I disagree with doesn't change what I believe.

I find it strange that someone else's religious beliefes are so repugnant to you that you feel unable to share a party affiliation with them. I think that says more about you than it does about them.

ET,
Your whole list takes one small aspect of an issue and expands it millionfold as a talking point.

You should work for Fox news!

Please look again at my original post.

I say that I don't believe that this is what Obama has in mind. I also say that if it IS what he has in mind, I'm not worried about it because we have the 2nd Amendment.

Why is that foolishness?

Are you so sure it couldn't happen here? It's not like it hasn't happened in recent history. I'll bet the Jews of Germany, Poland, Austria, Hungary and Chekoslovakia thought it couldn't happen there either. I'll bet that there are some Venezuelans who can't believe they voted a dictator into power either.

It CAN happen. The fact that it hasn't isn't evidence that it can't. The good thing is that we Americans have the ability to protect ourselves from it in a way that no other nation in history has been able to.

Perhaps it is a Cowboy fantasy. But we're a nation of cowboys at heart, when all is said and done. And those of us who are not will have to learn to deal as best they can if such a thing DOES happen here.

Elliot

It CAN happen. The fact that it hasn't isn't evidence that it can't. The good thing is that we Americans have the ability to protect ourselves from it in a way that no other nation in history has been able to.Americans did diddly-squat when it came to having their telephone conversations listened to or their emails read by the government.

I'm not worried about it because we have the 2nd Amendment. Why is that foolishness?Hello again, El:

On this, we agree. You have your gun to protect you from the Obama-maniacs, and I have mine to protect me from what vice and the dufus were doing.

excon

ET,
Your whole list takes one small aspect of an issue and expands it millionfold as a talking point.

You should work for Fox news!

As I said, NK, all of these "small aspects" (which aren't all that small, let me tell you) taken as a whole produce the exact effect I describe. These are laws that are already in existence. I don't have to make up any of it... it is the current reality. Each of these laws are a small control on some aspect of our lives. Taken as a whole, they are controls on EVERY aspect of our lives.

Pro-choicers and pro-gay rights advocates always yell about getting the government out of the bedroom. But they never seem to have a problem with the government being in their bathroom, hospital room, gas tank, gun rack and gun locker, electrical wiring, heating and plumbing systems, kitchen, pockets, board rooms, manufacturing plants, gardens and farms, radios and TVs, classrooms, and investment accounts. They're ONLY worried about the bedrooms. The fact that the government is in EVERY OTHER ASPECT OF THEIR LIVES is completely missed by 95% of liberals. Why liberals and civil libertarians never seem to scream as loud about those things is puzzling to me.

Perhaps it's because the left isn't really worried about the government being in the bedroom either... they aren't really worried about government intervention as long as it is in favor of their political goals. It's only when the government intervention is contrary to their goals that they end up worrying about government interference.

And your attempt to downplay my point seems to be evidence of that fact, NK. You would be the first on this board to talk about the government getting out of the bedroom... as you have been many times in the past. But for some reason you don't see government interference in other aspects of your life as important. It's just "small aspects" that I have "expanded a million fold as a talking point."

Well, they're not small, they aren't blown out of proportion, and they are there right now. And you can't even see it.

Elliot

Oh it says a lot about me. It says I base my decisions on logical thinking not because some invisible force is going to punish me for not doing what it wants.

I believe everyone called Obama a terrorist because of relationships he has had. Well I don't want someone to think I'm some religious lunatic because I am a republican. And sorry to say that IS how most of my generation looks at the Republican party (hence why your party is dying). So what's the point of getting on board with something that is about 2 general elections away from becoming extinct.

And wasn't it Bushes appoints at the FCC that started with these ridiculous fines if you see a nipple on TV or a wet fart sound on the radio? Yeah the FCC (under bush) has rules about how a fart can sound on the radio.

Obviously you have never used the new light bulbs I put them in 3 years ago and still haven't had to change them!! And my electric bill dropped big time.

Someone needs to control the education system because we SUCK! Just look on this website from the teens who can't actually spell anything.

What are you to cold to have your thermostat at 68 degrees. It isn't a big deal and it helps out with getting off foreign oil.

Ah have you seen how fat most of the people are in this country? It is a laughing stock. I am with them on that close down Fast Food restaurants.


I'll tell you what cause this is great timing I have my voter registration form in my hand to switch back to Independent. I printed it out about an hour ago. Here is your chance to gain a member What are the republican values (and you can't use "small" government)
So here is your chance sell your parties beliefs to me.

Spit,

I salute your refusal to live in fear.

... they aren't blown out of proportion...

This is what you wrote:

The left wants to control how much money you can earn or keep.
The left wants to control how warm you keep your house, and what you use to keep it warm.
The left wants to control what you can drive and how you fuel your car.
The left wants to control what you can plant and how you plant it.
The left wants to control what foods you eat and what you drink.
The left wants to control what you can hear on the radio.
The left wants to control the education system.
The left wants to control your retirement funding.
The left wants to control what lightbulbs you use.
The left wants to control what businesses can produce and what people can consume.
The left even wants to control your toilets.
Nope, nothing blown out of proportion there. http://moransinc.com/forum/img/smilies/monkey.gif

I rescind my offer I just went to GOP.com and clicked on Values the very first thing is Right To bear arms. Yes I own a gun but the right to bear arms are so low on my list that I never think about it.

Second value is equal treatment for all. Ok so the way you treat someone is not as important as owning a gun!

Third value is protect our symbols. Look I love the flag and make sure mine never touches the ground. But again this is number 3 come on.

Freedom of speech of 4th OK fine.

5th is a pro life statement. I Don't believe in that.

Sixth is marriage well that is just SOFA KING WE TODD ED (say it fast)

7th is time for RELIGION.

8 is property rights that is fine.

9 is supporting native American communities well shouldn't that just fall under 2. Why are Native Americans singled out.

Wow so really you guys only believe in 9 things and I don't agree with 6 of them.

Oh it says a lot about me. It says I base my decisions on logical thinking not because some invisible force is going to punish me for not doing what it wants.

Spit, I don't know about anyone else but I don't spend much time worrying about God's punishment. I think and talk a lot more about His forgiveness, grace, mercy and love.


I believe everyone called Obama a terrorist because of relationships he has had. Well I don't want someone to think I'm some religious lunatic because I am a republican. And sorry to say that IS how most of my generation looks at the Republican party (hence why your party is dying). So what's the point of getting on board with something that is about 2 general elections away from becoming extinct.

I think it was about Obama's relationship with an unrepentant terrorist and other friends like his pastor and mentor. People used to say you could tell a lot about a person by the company they keep. They said it about Bush all the time, suddenly one's friends and advisers mean nothing?


And wasn't it Bushes appoints at the FCC that started with these ridiculous fines if you see a nipple on TV or a wet fart sound on the radio? Yeah the FCC (under bush) has rules about how a fart can sound on the radio.

Are you saying nudity was allowed under Clinton (no pun intended)? Better to be rules on nipples and farts than rules limiting how much Rush you're allowed to hear.f


Obviously you have never used the new light bulbs I put them in 3 years ago and still haven't had to change them!! And my electric bill dropped big time.

I'm OK with the bulbs but I've had quite a few burn out in a year. But there are issues with disposal and it's just darn silly to ban the incandescent bulb.


Someone needs to control the education system because we SUCK! Just look on this website from the teens who can't actually spell anything.

Maybe we could teach them the 3 R's instead of worrying so darn much about "comprehensive sex education" and let parents be the parents again.


What are you to cold to have your thermostat at 68 degrees. It isn't a big deal and it helps out with getting off foreign oil.

It's nobody's %$%#$%@% business what I set my thermostat on.


Ah have you seen how fat most of the people are in this country? It is a laughing stock. I am with them on that close down Fast Food restaurants.

Are you serious, Spit? The left thinks it's a travesty to define marriage in the only natural way in which all aspects can possibly work but have no problem telling us what we can eat, where we can eat or how fat we can be?


I'll tell you what cause this is great timing I have my voter registration form in my hand to switch back to Independent. I printed it out about an hour ago. Here is your chance to gain a member What are the republican values (and you can't use "small" government)
So here is your chance sell your parties beliefs to me.

You've already made up your mind apparently.

No my mind was open until I went to GOP.com and saw you guys care more about guns then people.

spit,

I salute your refusal to live in fear.

LOL, and I bet you said that with a straight face. Where were during Obama's first few months of fear mongering about the economy? What the heck do you call all this nonsense about the right wanting to regulate your personal life? The left has perfected the art of fear mongering, I mean my God NK, haven't you heard our planet is DOOMED? LOL, unbelievable.

Perhaps it is a Cowboy fantasy. But we're a nation of cowboys at heart, when all is said and done. And those of us who are not will have to learn to deal as best they can if such a thing DOES happen here.

Elliot

Oh and this is another thing. Speak for yourself about wanting to be a cowboy. Again my generation does not think like this.

I'll put it this way my wife who is not politcal at all. Watched both the conventions because welll she really didn't have a choice because I wanted to watch them. When they scanned the GOP's crowd she begged me to turn it off because the people in the crowd gave her a chill up her spine like she was watching a horror movie. Again your base scares my generation away.

This is what you wrote:

Nope, nothing blown out of proportion there. http://moransinc.com/forum/img/smilies/monkey.gif

There isn't.

Let's go line by line:

The left wants to control how much money you can earn or keep.
We call it taxation, and it is a system currently being used to keep certain people from being able to take bonuses that were guaranteed to them via contract. Furthermore, taxes collected from the rich are used for welfare programs for the poor.


The left wants to control how warm you keep your house, and what you use to keep it warm.
This is the ban on offshore drilling and ANWAR drilling. The government has various bits of legislation in place to control what you use to heat your home (natural gas good, oil heat bad, coal evil). They are also working on "smart meters" with which they will be able to tell how much energy you are using and limit your usage. The Los Angeles Department of Water and Power is already using them.


The left wants to control what you can drive and how you fuel your car.
Ban on oil drilling, tax on oil imports, café standards on cars, and cap-in-trade on fuel manufacturers. Not to mention proposed legislation to control oil company profits.


The left wants to control what you can plant and how you plant it.
Organic good, industrial farming bad, herbicides and pesticides evil.


The left wants to control what foods you eat and what you drink.
The trans-fat bans in New York, NY, Philadelphia, PA, Montgomery County, Maryland, Albany County, NY, Chigaco, Il. Boston, Ma, King County, Md, San Francisco, Ca, etc. Also, various legislation designed to "prevent obesity", the renewed attempt at a tax on non-diet sodas in NY.


The left wants to control what you can hear on the radio.
The so-called "fairness doctrine" that is being revived by Congress.


The left wants to control the education system.
Can you say "public schools"? How about "NEA"?


The left wants to control your retirement funding.
Social Security.


The left wants to control what lightbulbs you use.
The Clean Energy Act of 2007's ban against incandescent bulbs and the requirement of CFL bulbs for home use.


The left wants to control what businesses can produce and what people can consume.
Café standards on cars, litigation against tobacco products manufacturers, litigation and legislation against arms manufacturers, litigation and legislation against food companies that use trans-fats.


The left even wants to control your toilets.
The Energy Policy Act of 1992 that limited the amount of water per flush to 1.6 gallons (from 3 gallons prior to legislation).


Exactly which items have I blown out of proportion?

No my mind was open until i went to GOP.com and saw you guys care more about guns then people.

Spit, if you're thinking logical as you say then surely you won't decide based on a few points on a party website which I bet were in no particular order. This is the list I see (http://www.gop.com/2008Platform/):

National Security
Government Reform
Economy
Energy
Environment
Health Care
Education
Crime
Values

Caring about the unborn to me is the ultimate in caring about people. Not only is the current president the most pro-abortion president ever (one of his first official acts was to stick his finger in the eye of pro-lifers), he and his base want to discourage if not eliminate incentives to give to charity. They want government to take care of people instead of people taking care of people. You don't get much more impersonal and uncaring than that in my opinion.

Well let's pick one 'cause I'm working at the same time.


The left wants to control what foods you eat and what you drink.
The trans-fat ban, various legislation to "prevent obesity", the renewed attempt at a tax on non-diet sodas.

Exactly which items have I blown out of proportion?

So if you want a hamburger can you get it if the "left" is in power? Can you eat some salmon? Can you drink a milkshake? Can you have a salad?

The answer is yes to all those so how has "the left" controlled what you eat?

Not only is the current president the most pro-abortion president ever
Nope, he's pro-choice.

she begged me to turn it off because the people in the crowd gave her a chill up her spine like she was watching a horror movie. Again your base scares my generation away.

Am I scaring you away? I've made this bet with nearly every liberal I've encountered on these boards, I'd bet you we could sit down and have lunch together and you'd never know I was a "right-wing evangelical neo-con" or whatever it is I'm supposed to be. I'm just a person that puts his pants on the same way everyone else does and who laughs and loves and cries and watches sports on TV. We aren't the enemy and we're not that scary. I've never met one of these scary conservative goblins you're talking about and I live smack dab in the middle of one of the most conservative strongholds in the nation. People tend to come away from here with this thought, the people here are great, and that often brings them back.

So what was so scary to your wife that could be found scanning the crowd? Here's that scary crowd from my state:

http://www.mtv.com/news/photos/r/rnc_2008/rnc_flipbook_090208/adds_090508/cowboy_hats.jpg

Well let's pick one 'cause I'm working at the same time.


So if you want a hamburger can you get it if the "left" is in power? Can you eat some salmon? Can you drink a milkshake? Can you have a salad?


The answer is yes to all those so how has "the left" controlled what you eat?

If I want my burger fried with trans-fats or some french ries fried in trans fats, because I like the taste better than the stuff they use now, I CANNOT get it. There is legislation in process to ban "milkshakes" or any other products that can "cause obesity" from fast food restaurants.

So the answer to those questions is an emphatic "NO". I cannot get these things. The government has banned or is in the process of banning them.

Next?

Elliot

Nope, he's pro-choice.


No, he's pro abortion, NK. When babies that are already born after botched abortions have to be left to die based on his legislative choices (voting down the Born Alive Act twice) he can no longer be called pro-choice. He's pro-abortion.

If I want my burger fried with trans-fats or some french ries fried in trans fats, because I like the taste better than the stuff they use now, I CANNOT get it. There is legislation in process to ban "milkshakes" or any other products that can "cause obesity" from fast food restaurants.

So the answer to those questions is an emphatic "NO". I cannot get these things. The government has banned or is in the process of banning them.

Next?

ElliotShow me these laws.

Hello again, El

Yeah, those damn liberals...

But, you eat breakfast in the morning knowing your food is safe because some damn liberal made sure it was. You breath clean air because some damn liberal cares about you. You drive a safe car because some damn liberal made it so. You fill your tank in a SAFE environment with hoses that have been inspected by the government, because some liberal wanted to make sure you didn't burn up when you fill up. You wear clothes that were NOT made in sweat shops because some damn liberal cares about children. You don't have to worry about your golden years because some damn liberal gave you a safety net. You don't have to worry about going broke because of health costs when you get older, because some damn liberal worried about you.

I could go on and on, but it would be lost on you.

excon

Nope, he's pro-choice.

Nope, he's pro-abortion. You can't call it anything else if you oppose giving rights to a child that survives an abortion procedure.

Oh and this is another thing. Speak for yourself about wanting to be a cowboy. Again my generation does not think like this.

Actually, if you go through "fly-over" country, you will find that many people of your genberation DO think like this.


I'll put it this way my wife who is not politcal at all. Watched both the conventions because welll she really didn't have a choice because I wanted to watch them. When they scanned the GOP's crowd she begged me to turn it off because the people in the crowd gave her a chill up her spine like she was watching a horror movie. Again your base scares my generation away.

First of all, perhaps your wife should meet Chris Mathews... he get's chills running up and down his legs too.

Second, "your generation" mostly doesn't vote. So who cares if they are scared away. Besides, as "your generation" get older, they seem to grow into the GOP. Having all your hard-earned money taken from you for decades tends to move you to the right over time.

My brother, who is of "your generation" (30 years old, 10 years younger than me) used to be a flaming liberal. Then he began working and watched a) the unions in action in his profession, b) the whiners who leach off the public troth, and c) his paycheck cut in half, and suddenly he wasn't quite so liberal anymore. Oh, to be sure he's to the left of me (most people are). But he's no lib anymore, at least not on most issues.

You know the old saying: Those who aren't liberals when they are young have no heart. Those aren't conservative when they get older have no brain. (I never had a heart.)

The point is that you and your wife will likely start seeing more and more comonality with the GOP as the years pass. There's a reason that the GOP is seen as being made up of "old white men". To a degree it's true. Older people tend to be frustrated by how little they still have of what they have earned after working for so long, which puts them in line with the GOP. Those old white guys start seeming much less scary over time.

Elliot

Speech I'm not saying she is right. What I am saying is she perceives people from the republican party as scary. She did not single out Texas I am sure she had no clue what state those people were from. Hell they could have been from right here in PA.

Her almost exact words were please turn this off these women they look like jesus freaks step ford wife's and it is creeping me out. See that is how your party is perceived. And we all know perception is reality.


My question to you is why do YOU SPEECH keep making this about North and South? When that has Nothing at all to do with this.

El I think this election proves my generation votes.

Matthews got a good chill, My wife got a scared chill. There is a difference.

Hello again, El

Yeah, those damn liberals...

But, you eat breakfast in the morning knowing your food is safe because some damn liberal made sure it was.

Interesting. My grandparents used to butcher their own food in the old country... no FDA at work there. They never seemed to need government intervention to get by. And when the government DID intervene in their lives... well, they ended up with numbers tattooed on their wrists.



You breath clean air because some damn liberal cares about you.

No, I breath clean air because COMPANIES started imposing their own environmental standards in order to meet customer needs and concerns... not because of anything the government did. The government can't correct problems. They can only create legislation and file lawsuits. The COMPANIES correct the problems.


You drive a safe car because some damn liberal made it so.

No, I drive a safe car because FORD manufactured a safe car. The government can't manufacture anything. The only thing they can manufacture are regulations. Regulations don't DO anything except make life miserable.


You fill your tank in a SAFE environment with hoses that have been inspected by the government, because some liberal wanted to make sure you didn't burn up when you fill up.

Gee, the fact that the filling station didn't want to burn down it's real estate and it's fuel inventory didn't have anything to do with that. Again, the government can't fix anything. They can only make regulations.


You wear clothes that were NOT made in sweat shops because some damn liberal cares about children.

Yep. And in assuring that, the government probably consigned some family to starvation because little Timmy couldn't bring home enough money to pay for food for the family because he's too young to work and his older brother Jimmy is too expensive to employ. Great going.


You don't have to worry about your golden years because some damn liberal gave you a safety net.

In case you hadn't noticed, the Social Security Trust Fund is bankrupt. The US GOVERNMENT is now bankrupt thanks to a $3 trillion + spending spree by the Obama Administration and the Liberal Congress. THERE IS NO SAFETY NET!!


You don't have to worry about going broke because of health costs when you get older, because some damn liberal worried about you.

Yep. I won't have to worry about paying for medicines or procedures that some pencil-pusher decides I don't qualify for and won't be able to get on my own. So I'll end up dead long before I have to spend any money. The death tax, however, is going to screw up my kids' finances.


I could go on and on, but it would be lost on you.

Excon

It isn't lost on me. I see it for what it is, not for the utopia you want it to be.

Elliot

Ex, for such smart man you can make some of the darndest comments.

Like those about the right wing laws.

Extreme right is anarchy, so there are NO laws from the far right.

My grandparents used to butcher their own food in the old country... no FDA at work there.So butcher your own food.

And when the government DID intervene in their lives... well, they ended up with numbers tattooed on their wrists.It shows how pathetic your argument is when you have to conger up the nazis.

Like those about the right wing laws.

Extreme right is anarchy, so there are NO laws from the far right.Same argument about the extreme left but that doesn't stop you does it?

Same argument about the extreme left but that doesn't stop you does it?

What kind of comment is this? I pointed out that there can be no laws from the extreme right, and you say there can be no laws from the extreme left?? Get real.

El I think this election proves my generation votes.

Matthews got a good chill, My wife got a scared chill. There is a difference.

Actually, no it doesn't. In terms of demographics, the number of young voters (18-29) was roughly the same as in prior elections at 18% vs. 17% in 2004 and 2000 and 1996. There was no significant statistical difference in the "youth" vote. It is actually lower than in 1992 (20%) and 1988 (21%).

As for your wife and Mathews, they can start a 12-step group... Chills Anonymous. CA for short.

Elliot

Please post where you got these numbers from.

Oh and what you fail to recognize is my wife who is not political at all who knows nothing about the left and the right who had no idea if she was watching the DNC or RNC just looked at the screen and said these people are scary.

.

Ex, for such smart man you can make some of the darndest comments. Extreme right is anarchy, so there are NO laws from the far right.Hello again, gal:

You're not wrong. You're just calling it the wrong thing. Anarchy isn't right or left. It's just an absence of law. It wouldn't be considered a libertarian because there's no freedom in chaos.

Our Constitutional republic, even in it's purest form, has laws. Are all laws left leaning? No. Do they limit freedom? Sure, but they create order where freedom can be enjoyed. There is no freedom in chaos.

But, if you're talking about a Ron Paul type of libertarian philosophy, it isn't right wing at all. In fact, it's the best of the left combined with the best of the right.

excon

It is not right or left .on a straight line graphic there is liberty at one end and tyranny at the other .

Please post where you got these numbers from.

For 2008 info:
Local Exit Polls - Election Center 2008 - Elections & Politics from CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/results/polls/#USP00p1)

Prior information:
US Presidential Elections (http://www.ropercenter.uconn.edu/elections/)
"How Groups Voted" sections within each election results.

Elliot

The CNN one won't show me anything for some reason.

The CNN one won't show me anything for some reason.It doesn't seem to show any other year but the latest election.

It doesn't seem to show any other year but the latest election.

Yes. That's why I posted TWO sources.

Speech I'm not saying she is right. What I am saying is she perceives people from the republican party as scary. She did not single out Texas I am sure she had no clue what state those people were from. Hell they could have been from right here in PA.

Her almost exact words were please turn this off these women they look like jesus freaks step ford wife's and it is creeping me out. See that is how your party is perceived. And we all know perception is reality.

I don't always view perception as reality. I perceive liberals to be a bunch of damn fools but I know that's not always the case. Why does you wife perceive us that way, from experience or is that just the way we're presented?


My question to you is why do YOU SPEECH keep making this about North and South? When that has Nothing at all to do with this.

Where did I say anything about north and south? I used the Texas photo and my experience in this neck of the woods because that's where I live, no need to perceive anything more than that. I just stated a fact, we conservatives are good people, in Texas or in PA.

it is not right or left .on a straight line graphic there is liberty at one end and tyranny at the other .

Absolutely right.

Absolutely right.To further your point, both ideologies have the potential for both results.

Speech you and I know perception isn't reality but there are millions upon millions of people who do. Just look at the ratings for American Idol it is perceived to be a good show but it is really garbage. Lame example I know but it popped in my head.

When She looked up for 5 seconds from her school work she just saw some crazy looking women with big hair and too much make up on with these big ole crucifix pins. To her that is scary. I don't know why it is but it is. If she would have watched the RNC like I did she would have seen people that looked like her. But when you get these little clips you make your own reality.

It was like the other day I pulled up in my hybrid and someone started to talk to me about how great it was that I care about the environment and how I was being green. I've said it a bunch of times on here that I didn't buy it cause I care about the environment I care about how much money I am saving on gas and how it wasn't that expensive. But since the perception is that everyone who drives a hybrid must care about the environment then I have to care also. Hell if the Insight cost as much as the Pirus, civic Hybrid, Fusion Hybrid I wouldn't have bought it. It is funny to see the look on their face when I explain that to them. It kind of crushes some hippies.

It is funny to see the look on their face when I explain that to them. It kind of crushes some hippies.

I'd almost pay to see you do that, lol.

It is funny! One person told me I don't deserve to drive a hybrid with that attitude. I just had to laugh

Misses a lot of this discussion...

The thing that stops me from being a republican is the religious aspect of the party. It is such a turn off that I want nothing to do with it.

I am not registered to a party either .But religion one way or another should not be a deciding factor . The truth is that civil society is glued together with a moral code regardless if some formal religion influences it or not. The phrase you can't legislate morality drives me nuts because all laws have a moral foundation . What is the lefts vaunted emphasis on fairness if it isn't trying to impose some kind of moral standard on the civil society ?

It is funny! One person told me i don't deserve to drive a hybrid with that attitude. I just had to laugh

You don't "deserve to drive a hybrid?" I guess there's supposed to be some sort of ideological test for hybrid shoppers. Good for you though, if you can laugh at all that then you're an all right dude.

You guys are all right too. Today was fun lets do it again tomorrow!

You guys are alright too. Today was fun lets do it again tomorrow!Hello spit:

Better watch out. Having fun with a righwinger is like going hunting with vice. It's fun for a few minutes... then kablooee!

excon

Hello spit:

Better watch out. Having fun with a righwinger is like going hunting with vice. It's fun for a few minutes..... then kablooee!

excon

LOL, one VP shoots a friend and we're all reckless maniacs.

LOL, one VP shoots a friend and we're all reckless maniacs.So the actions of one do not taint the whole, is that what you are saying?

Hello spit:

Better watch out. Having fun with a righwinger is like going hunting with vice. It's fun for a few minutes..... then kablooee!

excon

For Pete's sake! If Cheney had wanted to hurt him he sure wouldn't have used BIRD shot.

So the actions of one do not taint the whole, is that what you are saying?

Are you implying I ever believed otherwise?

No, of course not!!

My brother, who is of "your generation" (30 years old, 10 years younger than me) used to be a flaming liberal. Then he began working and watched a) the unions in action in his profession, b) the whiners who leach off the public troth, and c) his paycheck cut in half, and suddenly he wasn't quite so liberal anymore. Oh, to be sure he's to the left of me (most people are). But he's no lib anymore, at least not on most issues.



I'd say he just spent one too many Thanksgivings with you in his ear telling him about the evils of liberals. Talk about torture.. :D ;)

Hello again, gal:

You are still clinging to this warped conspiracy theory about Obama's death. Please send me a copy of the email so that I can investigate who is saying this crap. You're not making this up by yourself.

excon

First, I never said it WOULD happpen.

Secondly, you are saying that I have no original thoughts. Don't you think that is presumptous of you?

2012 I doubt 2012 but I do believe he will be reelected and then do some of that by 2015-16
2012 is most probably going to be some, more than likely unusual or rare, natural disaster.

It's that Mayan calender thingy.

it's that Mayan calender thingy.

Yep that is what I'm guessing.
I think Alan keyes gets the whole political picture better than anybody but when he tries going and making timelines he starts messing up. All I can say is leave the timelines to the psychics so they can be the ones that are wrong when it doesn't happen.

Alan Keyes was arrested today at Notre Dame . He was pushing baby carriages with dolls covered in fake blood.

Gee what was his 'crime'??

Here is the South Bend news cast
South Bend Tribune (http://www.southbendtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090508/News01/905089945&template=247art)

Maybe he was charged for agreeing with Bill Donahue who said :
Notre Dame giving Obama an honorary degree "would be like Howard University giving David Duke a degree in racial politics".

I think the Mayan kept on writing their calendar forward until they ran out of ink... the last entry was 12 /21/2012

I think the Mayan kept on writing their calendar forward until they ran out of ink.......the last entry was 12 /21/2012

Sounds like a reasonable explanation, either that or it was time for another human sacrifice so they dropped what they were doing.

I heard that most all ancient civilizations and Nostrodomus ended with 2012. I really think there is something to it... but not the end.

Gregg Braden - Fractal Time, David Sereda and others say it will be the beginning of a new dispensation or something like that.

Or maybe these "prophets" saw what Obama was doing in the world between 2009 and 2012, and since it made absolutely no sense they stopped trusting what they were seeing.

Elliot