I am a youth pastor that has found this subject in the need of good sound biblical advice. Is masturbation without the help or aid of pornography or other aids a sin. The way its been explained to me is its just done for the release and the feeling. No lusting after someone else just the need to feel good. Any help would be appreciated

I'm finding it hard to think of masturbating without anything [porn OR fantasies played in my head].

If you've found a way to enjoy yourself without that then you've conquered another way to masturbate.

Masturbating isn't a sin-- it's what you do in order to get to that point; porn, fantasies, etc. The bible says it's "unholy" or "impure" to see other people's naked bodies, lusting and coveting.

Sarah

I'm finding it hard to think of masturbating without anything [porn OR fantasies played in my head].

If you've found a way to enjoy yourself without that then you've conquered another way to masturbate.

Masturbating isn't a sin-- it's what you do in order to get to that point; porn, fantasies, etc. The bible says it's "unholy" or "impure" to see other people's naked bodies, lusting and coveting.

Sarah

Im going on what I have been told by thses girls. They say they use no porn or other aids so that's where it confounds me.

I guess I would have to rely on Ro 13;13
"let us behave properly as in the day, not in carousing and drunkenness, not in strife and jealously. 14 But put on the Lord Jesus Christ and make no provisions for the flesh in regard to it's lusts."
And 1Th 4:3
"For this is the will of God, your sanctification; that is that you abstain from sexual immorality.
To me these tow passages are pretty clear as to what people must do.

What do you say to the 99 percent of people who do masturbate?

(Sarah made sure the spelling was right)

Joe

What is a youth pastor and why is your spelling so poor?

What is a youth pastor and why is your spelling so poor?

Oh lordy.. you hippies :rolleyes:

A youth pastor is kind of like a pastor for teens and younger kids-- kind of like a Sunday school teacher. Almost like a guide for teens that gives guidance with modern methods of teaching "the word of God".

Sarah

In the Catholic Church a youth pastor is called a CCD (Confraternity of Christian Doctrine) and/or CYC (Catholic Youth Conference) Teacher and I was taught both for years.
CCD is for grade school age and CYC is for teens.
Yes masturbation is a sin.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Arcura, why is it a sin?

Without lusting, coveting or looking at another's nakedness would it still be a sin?

Or is it the whole "spilling your seed onto the ground" --where "wasting" yourself was frowned upon in the Old Testament.


Sarah

mudweiser,
It is sin because it is self sexual abuse. It causes a climax without a married partner; it's like casting your seed on the floor which the bible forbids.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Arcura, why is it a sin?

Without lusting, coveting or looking at another's nakedness would it still be a sin?

Or is it the whole "spilling your seed onto the ground" --where "wasting" yourself was frowned upon in the Old Testament.


Sarah


I think you will find the answer in post number 4 in which I quoted two passages.

450donn
Yes she could if she went there.
Fred

The girls that are telling you they don't look at porn or fantasize are lying to themselves to justify what they want to do. Even pg-13 movies are filled with beautiful bodies entertwined and just a few years ago that was considered porn. They are de-humanizing other people and it makes it easier to treat people worse because you gets in the habit of putting yourself and your wants and your pleasure ahead of what God wants.

What is a youth pastor and why is your spelling so poor?

A youth pastor is a pastor for the youth. In other words, I preach and teach to the youth of our church. As far as the bad spelling... well I lived in and went to school in Oklahoma so that might explain some. Plus I can't type to save my life.

homesell,
Well said.
Fred

Masturbation is a SIN, it is a form of fornication. The bible states fornicators will not see the kingdom of GOD, they will have their Place in the lake of fire HELL!

Hello Dondi:

What do you think about when you masturbate - baseball?

excon

The body says to keep our bodies pure and holy because it is not ours it is the Lords. Is masturbating something youwould want God to see you do? If not then tell them to pray on it and get then some type of help. We are to stay pure and that is FAR from pure

Pokerface5,
I agree.
Fred

Artlady, I took no oofense. It's a running joke in my family and at our church how poor my spelling can be. No harm, no foul.

Dondi,
Thanks for the explanation.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

I'm trying to imagine this whole thing. You are a youth pastor. Are you male or female?

Anyhoo, the kids in your group approach you with this predicament. "Is it okay if we masturbate IF we don't look at any porn or think about anything "nasty"? And you keep a straight face I assume, and say, "let me get back to you on that."
I'll go to AMHD and see what I can find out. "Until I come back with an answer, just hold that thought.' Don't do anything yet.

I know it seems like I am making light of what you consider a serious subject. But that's just it. It is not a serious subject. Isn't it much better that they get their God given natural desires met alone than with other partners. The ultimate in safe sex. That's like getting permission to scratch your own itch.

I'm trying to imagine this whole thing. You are a youth pastor. Are you male or female?

Anyhoo, the kids in your group approach you with this predicament. "Is it okay if we masturbate IF we don't look at any porn or think about anything "nasty"? And you keep a straight face I assume, and say, "let me get back to you on that."
I'll go to AMHD and see what I can find out. "Until I come back with an answer, just hold that thought.' Don't do anything yet.

I know it seems like I am making light of what you consider a serious subject. But that's just it. It is not a serious subject. Isn't it much better that they get their God given natural desires met alone than with other partners. The ultimate in safe sex. That's like getting permission to scratch your own itch.

Actually, I am male. I did not tell them to wait but I came here to further research the subject. Yes I kept a straight face for the fact that this is a real problem in their lives

I've always used the rule of thumb that if you have to ask or even wonder if something is wrong... it is.
Cozyk is right saying basically it's better than hooking up with a partner to risk disease or pregnancy. The sex life doesn't get out of hand that way,(Joke) but that doesn't address the problem of putting our own selfish pleasure ahead of what is best for us. Each must be firmly convinced in their own mind that what God wants IS what is best for us though we often cannot see it at the time.

Would someone please tell me the harm?

Cosyk,
Most masturbation, from the literature I've read and my own experience involves viewing or reading about sexual exploits that trigger the imagination. People are viewed as objects of desire rather than humans that need love. Other people are viewed as a means to an end in satisfying individual pleasure... a "what can they do for me or how can they give me pleasure" rather than what can I do for them. In the mind there is one partner after another, all different shapes and sizes and the seeming boredness of the same partner day after day drives people to promiscuity. If these kids really don't get turned on by reading or viewing literature or by imagining they are rare indeed. I've met a lot of guys that were hooked on porn, myself included, and none were able to maintain a solid monogamous relationship because the mind is always wondering as the eye is always wandering.

I've met a lot of guys that were hooked on porn, myself included, and none were able to maintain a solid monogamous relationship because the mind is always wondering as the eye is always wandering.Hello homesell:

I've met people who were hooked on alcohol and it ruined their lives... Some of them blamed drink for their problems... However, the vast majority can drink with no harmful effects...

Your experiences are just that - YOUR experiences... They are NOT universal.

Porn is good, and whacking off is pretty good too.

excon

excon,
I Never said my experience was universal, even said it was my own experience and the experiences of others I had met. Are you in a monogamous relationship excon?

I guess I would have to rely on Ro 13;13
"let us behave properly as in the day, not in carousing and drunkenness, not in strife and jealously. 14 But put on the Lord Jesus Christ and make no provisions for the flesh in regard to it's lusts."
And 1Th 4:3
"For this is the will of God, your sanctification; that is that you abstain from sexual immorality.
To me these tow passages are pretty clear as to what people must do.

I agree with you that these passages show that we need to abstain from thoughts and pleasures that were not reserved for an unmarried person. Thanks for the answer

Would someone please tell me the harm?

From my point of view, I find that masturbation can impair what a normal healthy sex life with your spouse can be. It seems to make it quick and almost shameful for the person who practices masturbation. That's my point of view. Take it or leave it. BTW, the spelling probably isn't right lol

God gave me a body and he gave me (sexual) feelings.
I haven't had sex in 12 years because I don't have a partner, I can not have intercourse with somebody if I do not have feelings for this person. But I do have sexual feelings whether I like it or not, especially in the days of my period... must be a natural thing God created for us and animals to be sure we will multiply, must be the way he likes to see it. Why would I deny any feelings from myself as a gift of God whether its physical or spiritual? Yes I masturbate and Im not ashamed of it, I do not need any porn pictures or fantasy I just love my body and can have a spiritual or physical orgasm if I want to. Its true you can have an orgasm without using your body it is exploring your spiritual world beyond the physical plane.

Thank you Lighterr for your kind words.
And to Cozyk great post LOL !

To Doni I would like to say:
The important thing for teenagers is to know that experiencing sexual feelings is not wrong. These feelings are normal for their development. Like Cozyk is asking all the time: what is the danger about masturbating what harm can it do?
Sexual feelings are strong feelings and nice to feel and something that feels very nice, is something you would like to experience more and often and that is what teenagers should know. Addiction comes around when the more and often are becoming uncontrolable. Sexaddiction is said to be the hardest addiction to get rid off. It ruins the image from the beauty of sexuality.
Because we are talking about a very delicate issue and there are differences in experiencing sexuality openness and clear communication about sexuality is very important.

1. Sin is sin for both man and woman OK, as far as sexual. Fornication is fornication if you are male or female.

2.So my question is this. Is your question only about women because you already think it is OK for a man to masterbate and are wondering if a woman can? Just a thought. You might want to reword your question.

3. I am divorced, my husband was abusive. If I had to I would masterbate before I would be with another abuser.

4.And I have not found a man who did not have some abusive tendencies yet... the ones who are supposed to be Godly. They do not even have the courage to pursue me. Or the energy. I do not want to wait for the knowledge that a relationship with any man who dates me is going somepalce. I plan on getting married one more time before I die.

5. I am not judgeing you since I do not read minds. But God does not have double standards...

honeysinger1967,
Yes God does not have double standards.
I'm interested in seeing any answer to your questions.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

No no I wasn't asking about women because I think its OK for a man. I am not a woman, so I am not privy to the way a female mind thinks. I kept getting differing opinions on this subject so I thought Id see what the world had to say. Most are in agreement of what I had told her all along. That is, it is an act reserved for marriage

In the Bible, when you reference the whole "spilling your seed on the ground is wrong" thing, that story in the Bible has NOTHING to do with masturbation.
When Onan would lie with Tamar, instead of releasing inside of her to help her produce offspring, he spilled his seed on the ground. He was avoiding his command to produce offspring for his brother. THIS was wicked to the Lord.
Genesis 38:8-10

As far as masturbation goes, I believe we have God-given desires. We are not supposed to lust after other people or imagine having sex with them. I do not think that to masterbate and climax is at ALL sin, but rather to look at porn and imagine sexual things in your mind is straying from purity, and therefore sin.
However, I do not believe that this is really even a true issue. We all have problems enough. I think masturbation can be healthy. When it becomes addictive or something that takes place of God in your life or pulls you away from God, then it's a problem.

Dondi,
For men OR women masturbation is a sin.
So the bible indicates.
Fred

Acura
I can understand if men cast their seed on their floor, but women don't have seed that they cast on the floor.
How does it apply to woman as sin?
Thanks
Renee

Im a christian and if pornography is involved there is a problem if not I don't really think it is a sin.

Im a christian and if pornography is involved there is a problem if not i dont really think it is a sin.


My reading is that it's a sin no matter who is doing it - what religion teaches you that it is not?

EDIT: 14 years old on an adult board.

lovelyflowerful,
I agree with JudyKayTee.
Pornography is a sin.
Just because many in society accept it does not change the fact that it is a sin and a very dangerous one with causes many different problems.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Masturbation is a SIN, it is a form of fornication. The bible states fornicators wil not see the kingdom of GOD, they will have their Place in the lake of fire HELL!

In this post, this was commented by cozyk "cozyk disagrees: Plaeeeeeeeze! Just because it's in the bible doesn't make it truth. Don't we have bigger fish to fry in the world of sin, than be concerned about something as non harmful as this.?"

Just for the record, (pardon me while I scream) THE BIBLE IS GODS' WORD, GOD IS NOT A MAN THAT HE SHOULD LIE. Did you know that God CANNOT lie? Know why? Cause every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God MUST be truth. Example : GOD decides to say, "Humans wear they're hearts on the outside of their chests", INSTANTLY every human heart would be on the outside of our bodies ( too graphic, maybe). God decides to say that grass is red and the sky is brown, instantly it becomes SO. So, just a recap: If it says it in the Bible (GODS WORD), then it is MOST DEFINITELY TRUTH!

Now you know

brock,
The point is that to we who believe in the bible Masturbation is a sin.
True believers do not pick what is sinful and what is not.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

1Peter 2:11 Beloved, I beg you as sojourners and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lust
Which war against the soul.

Col. 3:2, 5 Think only about the things in heaven, not the things on earth. 3. Your old
Sinful self has died, and your new life is kept with Christ in God. 4.Chirst is our life, and
When he comes again, you will share in his glory. 5. So put all evil things out of your
Life; sexual sinning, doing evil, letting evil thoughts control you, wanting thing that are evil, and greed. This is really serving a false god.

Maggie 3

Maggie 3,
Thanks for posting that.
Fred

lovelyflowerful,
I agree with JudyKayTee.
Pornography is a sin.
Just because many in society accept it does not change the fact that it is a sin and a very dangerous one with causes many different problems.
Peace and kindness,
Fred



Fred, small correction here - this was just brought to my attention.

I never said I believe there is a sin in watching pornography or masturbating.

I said: "My reading is that it's a sin no matter who is doing it - what religion teaches you that it is not?"

There is a difference between what I have read and what I believe.

In this post, this was commented by cozyk "cozyk disagrees: Plaeeeeeeeze! Just because it's in the bible doesn't make it truth. Don't we have bigger fish to fry in the world of sin, than be concerned about something as non harmful as this.?"

Just for the record, (pardon me while I scream) THE BIBLE IS GODS' WORD, GOD IS NOT A MAN THAT HE SHOULD LIE. Did you know that God CANNOT lie? Know why? Cause every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God MUST be truth. Example : GOD decides to say, "Humans wear they're hearts on the outside of their chests", INSTANTLY every human heart would be on the outside of our bodies ( too graphic, maybe). God decides to say that grass is red and the sky is brown, instantly it becomes SO. So, just a recap: If it says it in the Bible (GODS WORD), then it is MOST DEFINITELY TRUTH!

now you know

In ref to to the balancer given to my disagree. Brock did not state that this was his opinion. He stated it as a fact. He can't know this as a fact. Therefore, I disagree. No one knows it to be fact.

JudyKayTee,
Thanks for the small correction.
Fred

To black111madonna

I agree with you to a certain extent, God wants us to multiply, there is no doubt "Go forth and multiply, consume this earth". Sexual "thoughts/feelings" are the mind's 3rd most powerful emotion, for some it is a hard thing to ignore.


1 Corinthians 6:19-20 says;

Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body.

1 Corinthians 6:12-20 ESV says;

“All things are lawful for me,� but not all things are helpful. “All things are lawful for me,� but I will not be enslaved by anything. “Food is meant for the stomach and the stomach for food�—and God will destroy both one and the other. The body is not meant for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. And God raised the Lord and will also raise us up by his power. Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take the members of Christ and make them members of a prostitute? Never! Or do you not know that he who is joined to a prostitute becomes one body with her? For, as it is written, “The two will become one flesh.�...



Helpful Not Helpful
1 Peter 2:11 ESV says;

Beloved, I urge you as sojourners and exiles to abstain from the passions of the flesh, which wage war against your soul.

Ps: Off the topic, I think your stunning! O.O

Rom. 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature

Mastubation is not possible without lust. Lust can be simply a mental picture or thought.
People will always try to justify their sin, rather than to admit they have sinned. Just like atheists; they try so hard to justify why there is no God, instead of admitting that God exists and that they are sinners.

I originally asked to be rated for music, for which I was deemed an expert, but I don't claim to be an expert on anything. I know that I don't know it all, I know that I am infallible. I would take red ratings all day though, even death, before I would deny my God, and his son Jesus Christ, my savior.

God Bless You.

Did you intend to say that you are infallible (exempt from failure or mistake) or is this a mis-type?

I have to wonder what God would say about things nowadays. Would he be happy that because some people have been so concerned about 'casting their seeds onto the floor' we are incredibly over-populated and due to our over-population we are using up our natural resources before we can replenish them? He created the planet and animals too. I'm not a crazy environmentalist or anything, but you have to admit that having so many people is not healthy for us or the planet. Do you like paying so much into taxes so we can give welfare out to people with 10 kids, but can't afford it? What about people in third world countries who are struggling just to survive, but keep having more children. Do you think that God is thrilled about that? I don't claim to be any sort of scholar about the Bible, but 'rules' do change from the Old to the New testiment. Who's to say that things that weren't 'allowed' then aren't 'allowed' now? What happened to not judging? Should the pubecent young boy have sex with his pubecent girlfriend so he doesn't 'cast his seed' into a kleenex and lose it forever? Why do you think God made it so that men's sperm are continually replenishing themselves?

Furthermore, what about the fact that God 'made' sex, that it is a perfectly natural thing? And that he made these parts of our bodies that allows us to climax WITHOUT the need of a partner? At some point everyone gets sexually frustrated-He only made us human, and that is one of the things that He included in the human makeup. If there wasn't some sort of 'release' as an option instead of sex, could you imagine all of the sexual frustration! What lengths would some people go to in order to get their sexual release? It must be nice to be married and have someone you can 'always have sex with', but not every person is that lucky, and let's face it, just because you're married doesn't mean that you're guaranteed sex anytime you want it. What happens when a wife isn't in the mood? Because she is supposed to 'obey' everything that he says, is she supposed to allow herself to be raped just so that his seed winds up where it 'belongs'? (and yes, I said 'rape' because anytime that someone is forced to have sex when they don't want to IS 'rape'). I don't think that God would like the woman that He created to be treated like that.

Honestly, whenever I masterbate, it is short, sweet, and to the point. It is strictly to satisfy the quick need; to pacify it. I don't think of anything but the current sensation. I don't watch or look at porn, I don't think of anyone, I just focus on the feelings I am experiencing.

Bottom line, who can say that they talked to God this morning and He difinitively told them that at this time, masturbation in any form, is a sin. You are a youth minister. I suggest that as you read everyone's replies that you read them, maybe remember things that strike a chord with you, but then forget them while you put in a simple, honest prayer to God about the situation. Listen to your heart for the answer, and once you've gotten it, you'll know. Then don't have any doubts about the answer that you received. If anyone asks you how you came up with your decision on the matter, tell them that you went straight to the source.

Did you intend to say that you are infallible (exempt from failure or mistake) or is this a mis-type?

Good EYE! I meant to put the word "not" in front of that word "not infallible" my mistake!

as far as over-population, it is only a problem when the offspring are not following God. As far as sex is concerned, a woman is a gift from God and a man and woman's intimacy is part of the gift. If you have a relationship with God, you will be provided with a partner (maybe not overnight), but in good time. Every time I masturbate, I feel wrong, for I have sinned, but it is better than fornicating and possibly producing a child out of wedlock. It's still a sin, either way. Oh yeah, about JUDGING... (not my original work)...

It may be the most often quoted and yet most misunderstood verse in the whole Bible. People who have never even cracked open a Bible have heard and quoted this verse. “Do not judge so that you will not be judged” Matthew 7:1

Usually that verse is used like a hammer to immediately stop any discussion about the rightness or wrongness of a persons behavior. Almost invariably if someone claims that a certain action or behavior is wrong, someone will say, “But Jesus said we are not to judge anyone”. The clear implication is that we can never say if some behavior is sin or not because we are not to judge. Sometimes these words are shouted out in anger and rage, “You can't judge me!”.

What is possibly more amazing than the fact that so many people quote this verse and the concept of not judging, is that so many people could get the real meaning so completely wrong. This is especially true since the context makes it clear what Jesus meant by these words. When Jesus said that we should not judge unless we be judged also, he was not saying that we are to never judge if behavior is sin or not. What he was doing was giving us a caution to make sure that we are willing to be judged by the same standard of judgment. This verse is not a warning against judging an action. It is a warning against self deception and hypocrisy.

The way we know this is the same way that we usually know what the Bible teaches. We look at the context. The verse that immediately follow helps explain what Jesus was saying. For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. Matthew 7:2 In other words, if you are going to say that what someone else is doing is wrong then you better be prepared to be judged by the same standard. If you don't want your life to be scrutinized, then don't judge others. If you can stand the scrutiny then go ahead. Think of Al Gore telling us that we need to cut down our energy use in order to save the planet and then finding out that he has three large homes and the carbon footprint of Godzilla. He needed to read this verse first.

Just in case we still have not figured out that this is not a complete prohibition on judging behavior, the next few verses make it even more clear.

“Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' and behold, the log is in your own eye? “You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye. Matthew 7:3-5

Before you ever start to tell someone else what is wrong with their life, make sure you take a good look at your own life first. But notice, Jesus does not say, take the log out of your own eye and don't say anything about the speck in the others persons eye. That would be the result of never judging anyone about anything. Instead Jesus says that after you take care of your own stuff, then go and help your brother. So you are to help then with their issue but only once you have done a personal spiritual check to make sure that you are right with God.

We need to see this as a matter of helping someone, not beating them down. Jesus used the example of having something in your eye. In order to get it out, you often need the help of someone else to see it and remove it. When we see something wrong in the life of a friend we need to point it out and help them deal with it. When we do that, we are serving them, not condemning them. What this is really all about is determining if something is right or wrong behavior, sin or not sin. We can and should do that with a loving attitude and not a condemning, superior, hypocritical attitude. Pointing out destructive behavior in another person is actually an incredible and brave way to love your neighbor. We understand this when the situation becomes so serious as to require and intervention. How much more loving would it be to step in long before it got so serious?

There are a couple of final reasons this verse cannot mean that we are never to judge if what a person does is right or wrong. First, Jesus makes it very clear that we are to forgive people when they sin against us. In the Lord's Prayer we pray that God would forgive us as we forgive others. Well in order to forgive someone, you have to first, “judge” that they have done something wrong. The very act of forgiveness that Jesus teaches so clearly, requires that we identify some behavior as wrong. To fail to judge it as wrong or sinful in the first place, makes it impossible to forgive.

Secondly, the Bible is filled with admonitions that we avoid evil, flee from temptation, cling to what is good and lovely. In order to do that, we have to make judgment calls. We have to decide that one thing is good and another is not. We make these decisions all that time as a matter of course in life. We do it if we are a follower of Jesus or not. Everyone has something's that they decide are right to to and others that are not. Every society and culture has these things and every member of those cultures has to think and decide, has to judge what behaviors fit the standard.

Bursting forth with the words, “judge not”, should in no way intimidate anyone from deciding if something is sinful or not. If anything slows us down it should be the warning from Jesus that we not be hypocrites who are unable or unwilling to live according to that same standard.

To Brock:

GOD DID NOT WRITE THE BIBLE... MAN DID..!

There are many people around the world who never get the chance to see or even read a bible...
Does that mean that God created them to be sinners so he can send them to hell?

About multiplying and overpopulation:
We do have herbs on this earth and lots of ancient knowledge

Sex is part of life and to live is not a sin

Blessings...

black111madonna
I disagree in part.
The reason is that men did write the bible AS inspired by God Almighty.
The promulgation of the bible was inspired by the Holy Spirit so that it would be available to the world to read and know what God wants us all to be aware of.
That is what I and about 2 billion people on this planet believe.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

To Arcura:

There are 6.81 billion people on this planet so 4.81 billion people does not believe that the bible is true.

Although men were inspired by God and the Holy spirit to let all of us be aware of and read his words there will always be lots of people on this planet (like in the jungle) who can't even read or get in touch with a bible. Im convinced that these people are even closer to God because they live simply and in oneness with the earth and each other.

God speaks directly through my heart and I don't need a bible as a manual how to live and experience life.
'Cause everything you need to learn you will experience through life and that's exactly what God has given us.

Just because men wrote the bible I dont believe it.....
'cause men lie.

Blessings...

1 Cor. 6:18,

Flee from fornication, anything that could put wrong desires in your head should not even be mentioned, let alone committed as a secret sin. Study the bible jw's help.

To Arcura:

There are 6.81 billion people on this planet so 4.81 billion people does not believe that the bible is true.

Although men were inspired by God and the Holy spirit to let all of us be aware of and read his words there will always be lots of people on this planet (like in the jungle) who can't even read or get in touch with a bible. Im convinced that these people are even closer to God because they live simply and in oneness with the earth and eachother.

God speaks directly through my heart and I dont need a bible as a manual how to live and experience life.
'Cause everything you need to learn you will experience through life and thats exactly what God has given us.

Just because men wrote the bible I dont believe it.....
'cause men lie.

Blessings.....


Rom 1:20-23,

Miss if you believe in a God, or gods, wouldn't you think it possible for that spirit being to give a way of staying in contact with him, many life lessons can be learned in the Bible. Men do lie, mostly about what is in the Bible, learn and figure out what the bible teaches, and you may be saved in the when he glorifies his name.

black111madonna,
I am saddened much by your attitude about the Holy Bible.
It gives us the way of life God wants us to live and also the way to eternal life after we pass this life.
I do hope that you read and believe the gospels and related books and take the road to eternal life.
The choice is yours to make.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Saddened yes arcura, but not surprised, the word of God is foolishness to those that don't believe, we are told that.

Fr_Chuck,
Yes, that is true, unfortunately.
And of course there are those who out smart themselves.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

In peace to the bible readers and believers:

I grew up between 2 religions, my dad is a muslim and my mom is catholic, I have always been to christian schools.
I studied the bible and I have studied the koran, I've also been to koran school and studied arabic.
Because my parents had different religions I taught that no matter what you believe in, you must respect the choices people make... thats the freedom people are entitled to.

I believe in the Hopi teachings it is not a religion but a way of living in peace and harmony with all that the creator has made for us... and thats the way I am in contact with God. (with the things he truly made)

Some people here keep saying that I should study the bible or read this and that... I did it all... and it doesn't convince me, Im sorry that some of you feel sad about it... you shouldn't cause if Im happy you can be too.

The only thing I need to be saved from are the egoistic people around this planet who are making this world a living hell by abusing their power and manipulating people.
If we could only truly share and not judge... this world could be a heaven and earth a paradise... cause then we can see the beauty of nature the things that God made, to me that is his word to us and I can even touch it.

I believe the bible has good points but unfortunately I found too many negative sights to it... putting a lot of fear into people.. I won't stand for a God who puts fear into his own childeren and that you will go to hell if you don't follow the bible... I simply refuse to believe that.. 'cause in my heart I feel a different God. Not a God who wants you to kill in his name lets not forget that 98% of all wars is due to religion. I don't think that is the way to eternal life...

To Arcura:
Im not outsmarting myself... God is the one who gives me insight. So far I only get answers from the religious people around here who think and even believe that their way is the only way to live and to eternal life...
Talking about outsmarting themselves...

Blessings...

Had to spread the rep but I really think black111madonna has a good grasp on being in tune with God the creator and what it means to live a Godly life. Just my humble opinion.

black111madonna,
Thanks much for your clarification on where you stand.
I'm happy that you are happy.
Peace and kindness,
Fred