I recently purchased a home and want to install ceiling fans in all the bedrooms (4) and in the living room. Since my family is a gadget / technofile type family, I felt it prudent that I just install a new circuit for the fans. Here's some info to start:


Ranch Layout, no basement, unfinished attic.
100 amp feed.
2 open breaker spots in pannel.
The rooms DO NOT have existing ceiling boxes/lighting.
Wall switches control an outlet in each room.



What I want to do:

Install a 15 amp breaker in the box and run a romex lead down the centerline of the house. I want to junction out both ways twice to feed the ceiling boxes for the bedrooms and once to feed the living room.

Rough Sketch of wiring:


[] [] Panel
| x Fan
|
x-|
|
x-|-x
|
x-|-x



What I am unsure of:


How far can I run romex before a junction box is required?
Tips on feeding the romex to the panel...
How simple would it be to set wall switches to control fan light?


I am contemplating using remotes on the fans to control the lights and fan speed in lieu of running the switch wire... however I am almost certain the switch wire comes up to the attic already, so moving the switch wire may be a simple move.

I do have expereience with electrical systems as an Electrician's Mate in the Navy, but I know residential and ship wiring are quite different and I want to be on the right track.

Thanks in advance!

1. Not an issue. Just daisy chain to each box,
2. Lot's of tools are available. Don't know your particular issues.
3. You could go with a remote, then no wall switces required.
3a. If you do multile light on/off with or without dimming, then that's a different problem.
3b. You can run 3 conductor from the ceiling box to the wall switch to give you on/off control of the fan and light.

Issues come up when you try to combine variable fan speed control from the wall, multiple fans and dimming.

There are dimmers that are master/slave dimmers.
Speed control may have to be done from one location.
You may need a neutral in the switch box.

On/Off from a single location with brightness and fan speed controlled at the fan should be doable with 3 conductor from the ceiling junction box to the wall switch.

Some systems may require a neutral. There are some IR fan controls too that can be pointed at the switch plate.

Some of the remotes have the ability to control temperature and/or able to turn it off after a preset time. They just don't play well with wall switches.

I don't think the available technology is mature.

Thanks for the info.

Not an issue really, more just pre-planning. There is an existing 2 inch-or-so conduit from the panel to the house that I believe I can feed through with a fiberglass droprod.

To clarify, I can run romex from the panel to the first square box in the attic no matter the distance?



Fans:
I was more looking for On/Off for the lighting only and have the speed control on the fan itself (I found some IR fan speed controllers that I was thinking of using that are only for speed control too). I was intending to disconnect and backfeed the switched wire from the wall socket and use it to switch the light fixture on the fan.

(I found some IR fan speed controllers that i was thinking of using that are only for speed control too)


Meant RF, not IR.

For the most part distance is OK for a typical house. Load should be fine too. You can check and do the following:

Take the wattage of the fans and light combo and divide by 120 V. This should be the amunt of current.

If you EXPECT the fans/lights to be on for more than 3 hours at a time, then multiply the above value by 1.25.

Size up to the nearest breaker. 15 A or 20 A and use 14 or 12 awg for 15 A and 12 AWG for 20 A.

Voltage drop calcuations can get difficult, but if you want a quick check, we'd need the total current, not multiplied by 1.25 and the longest distance.

If the fans are replacing ceiling lights, I don't see why you'd need new circuits. Most fan motors are under an amp.

Oh, and if you can design your installation to NOT use RF switches, DO IT. They're very unreliable.

If the fans are replacing ceiling lights, I dont see why you'd need new circuits. Most fan motors are under an amp.

No existing ceiling boxes or wires. I did consider loading into the outlet circuit, but given the amps the computers in the house can pull at times, I thought it prudent to pull a new circuit for them.

For the most part distance is OK for a typical house. Load should be fine too. You can check and do the following:

Take the wattage of the fans and light combo and divide by 120 V. This should be the amunt of current.

If you EXPECT the fans/lights to be on for more than 3 hours at a time, then multiply the above value by 1.25.

Size up to the nearest breaker. 15 A or 20 A and use 14 or 12 awg for 15 A and 12 AWG for 20 A.

Voltage drop calcuations can get difficult, but if you want a quick check, we'd need the total current, not multipled by 1.25 and the longest distance.


I am only looking at 5 fans that pull about 60 Watts High Speed Load. I'll be using Fan CFL bulbs in the fans for lighting, but for worst case lets say 100 watt incandecent lightbulb under long load I would be looking at ~1.3 amps per fan location. Factor in about 65 feet of 12/2 on the circuit for the resistance... my hip guesstimate is that I won't even get near maxing out a 15amp circuit. Of course this is a max load senario. I'm more looking at 5 x ~36w (med speed) and a few of the CFL's on at a time... maybe 50w max for lighting.


I also might just use 14/2 after the first square box just to give me some options down the road without having to go back into the panel, but cutting down on the wiring cost.

Oh, and if you can design your installation to NOT use RF switches, DO IT. They're very unreliable.

I have had good experience with the dining room fan that is in the house. Light dimer and speed controller and no problems yet. I'll have to keep an eye on it.

My plan was to use the existing wall switch to control the light and then use an RF remote for convenience (with the pull on the fan as backup) for speed control.

What make is the dining room one?

Hampton Bay

Richx1:

Mixing wire sizes is not a recommended practice. Yes, it can be done, but you can also open up a can of worms. For example: You come out of the panel with 12/2 Romex w/g, run up to the attic (out of site, out of mind) and reduce the wire size to 14 AWG. Now, you have a potential problem. Anyone looking in the panel sees the #12 and assumes a 20-amp circuit. You, however, have dropped down a wire size in an invisible location, requiring the circuit to be protected at 15-amps. Your best bet is to choose one wire size and stick with it from end-to-end. Based on your estimate of 100 watts per room, either size is adequate. However, be careful adding wires to an existing conduit. You can get into derating factors depending on the number of conductors in the pipe. Also, unless things have changed very recently, Romex is not UL listed for extended runs in conduit. Also, remember to bond the ground wire to every metal box and yoke of each device.

I don't mean to be a wet blanket on your project, but you really need to be aware of some Electrical Code issues before you get started.

Good luck.

Richx1:
I don't mean to be a wet blanket on your project, but you really need to be aware of some Electrical Code issues before you get started.


Exactly why I am here. Preplanning helps and then hitting up the local permit office will give me the specific code requirements.

Also, thanks for the wiring advice. I'll stick with one gauge.

The conduit length from panel to attic is about 4 feet. It was installed when the previous owner moved the washer and dryer. He installed a 90 degree access turn just before the panel. I removed the access plate and there is a lot of space in the pipe, but I haven't tried to fish it yet. If it fails to fish easily I'll just add another conduit.

When you fish it, put a "pulling rope" in it so you can use it the next time.

Hampton Bay

Oh wow. Knock on wood.

When you fish it, put a "pulling rope" in it so you can use it the next time.

Good Idea. Thanks.

Oh wow. Knock on wood.

Joy... this makes me nervous.

I've chosen Hunter from the new fans, so I think I'll be safe there.

Search these forums for Hampton Bay and Harbor Breeze :)

[Richx1;1681729]I recently purchased a home and want to install ceiling fans in all the bedrooms (4) and in the living room. Since my family is a gadget / technofile type family, I felt it prudent that I just install a new circuit for the fans. Here's some info to start:


Ranch Layout, no basement, unfinished attic.
100 amp feed.
2 open breaker spots in pannel.
The rooms DO NOT have existing ceiling boxes/lighting.
Wall switches control an outlet in each room.



What I want to do:

Install a 15 amp breaker in the box and run a romex lead down the centerline of the house. I want to junction out both ways twice to feed the ceiling boxes for the bedrooms and once to feed the living room.

Rough Sketch of wiring:


[] [] Panel
| x Fan
|
x-|
|
x-|-x
|
x-|-x


Just run the cable from box to box.:

[ ]
|
|
X
|
|
x-------- X
|
|
X------ X
|
|
X--------X



What I am unsure of:


How far can I run romex before a junction box is required?
Tips on feeding the romex to the panel...
How simple would it be to set wall switches to control fan light?


I am contemplating using remotes on the fans to control the lights and fan speed in lieu of running the switch wire... however I am almost certain the switch wire comes up to the attic already, so moving the switch wire may be a simple move.

I do have expereience with electrical systems as an Electrician's Mate in the Navy, but I know residential and ship wiring are quite different and I want to be on the right track.

Thanks in advance!

[Richx1;1681729]I recently purchased a home and want to install ceiling fans in all the bedrooms (4) and in the living room. Since my family is a gadget / technofile type family, I felt it prudent that I just install a new circuit for the fans. Here's some info to start:


Ranch Layout, no basement, unfinished attic.
Great! You can easily install boxes in an unfinished attic!
100 amp feed.
2 open breaker spots in panel.
The rooms DO NOT have existing ceiling boxes/lighting.
Make sure you install ceiling fan rated boxes.
Wall switches control an outlet in each room.



What I want to do:

Install a 15 amp breaker in the box and run a romex lead down the centerline of the house. I want to junction out both ways twice to feed the ceiling boxes for the bedrooms and once to feed the living room.

Rough Sketch of wiring:


[] [] Panel
| x Fan
|
x-|
|
x-|-x
|
x-|-x


Just run the cable from box to box.:


[ ]
|
|
X
|
|
x--------X
|
|
X-------X
|
|
X--------X


What I am unsure of:


How far can I run romex before a junction box is required?
As far as you want. There is no code requirement to have a J-box within any specified distance.
Tips on feeding the romex to the panel...
Good thing the previous owner installed that conduit to the attic.... fishing into a service panel isn't a pretty picture. As previous posters have suggested, pay attention to conduit fill and derating. Also the pull string is an excellent idea. USe a non-conductive fish tape.
How simple would it be to set wall switches to control fan light?
You need to install an "old work" box, then drill a hole through the top joist and "fish" the wire down to the switch box. (Assuming there are no fire stops in the wall. I recommend a fiberglass fish tape.



I am contemplating using remotes on the fans to control the lights and fan speed in lieu of running the switch wire... however I am almost certain the switch wire comes up to the attic already, so moving the switch wire may be a simple move.

If you are lucky, but if the switch only controls a receptacle, I doubt the switch leg goes through the ceiling.

I do have experience with electrical systems as an Electrician's Mate in the Navy, but I know residential and ship wiring are quite different and I want to be on the right track.

I started as an EM myself..... 35 years ago. LOL The major difference between shipboard and wiring on the beach: one conductor (the neutral) is grounded. For you landlubbers, 120 volt volt shipboard wiring is powered from a 3-phase delta connected transformer, with 120 volts between phases. The branch circuits are similar to our 240 volt circuits, in that neither conductor is grounded, and you use double pole switches.
Of course the wiring methods are also different. The navy uses something called Multi Conductor Shipboard General Use Armored (MCSGA) cable. it has a braided metal armor, and is supported by weld studs and banding.

Thanks in advance!