I didn't know whether to put this in religion or politics, or health, or what. So, here goes..


From Times Online
March 17, 2009
Pope says condoms are not the solution to Aids - they make it worse
Pope Benedict XVI waves as he boards an Alitalia Boeing 777 at Fiumicino Airport

The Pope departing for Africa today - his first trip to the continent
Richard Owen in Rome

The Pope courted further controversy on his first trip to Africa today by declaring that condoms were not a solution to the Aids epidemic – but were instead part of the problem.

I heard the above on the news this morning and was shocked. I certainly hope that Catholics that hang on his every word don't hang on those.:(

So, does this mean that the pope like all the previous popes are so far out of touch with reality that they are nothing more than? Not trying to disparage the office, but if condoms do not help prevent aids, other than abstinence what does?

In all fairness, I think the guy may have been saying that doling out condoms to people is not a long-term solution to the AIDS epidemic on the continent. I suppose that the context of what he was saying was that encouraging people to use condoms instead of encouraging people to remain celibate or being committed to a monogamous relationship was ultimately the wrong approach. Why? Because the more that people who engage in promiscuous sex come to rely on condoms to prevent disease, the more likely they are to take more risks sexually and condoms are not 100% safe—although the alternative is much less safe. I don't think the pope was disputing the fact that condoms are safer nor was he making the case that condoms are somehow more dangerous than unprotected sex, I think he was merely making the point that to not address the real issue—the morality of sex—but to keep handing out condoms is not going to solve this problem.

I'm not Catholic and I'm not trying to defend the pope because I am somehow committed to following him... but it just seems to me that his words are being taken out of context by the excerpt above, maybe. If he was truly saying that condoms are inherently more dangerous than unprotected sex, just as a matter of fact, then I agree with you cozyk and 450donn that those words are really out of touch.

jakester,
I agree with you.
Handing out condoms only encourages more sex rather than not having sex.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

And sadly Fred, Not handing out condoms does not automatically mean that people will not have sex!
So which is better. Handing out condoms in the hope that sexually active people will use them or tell them that abstinence is the only way and you will go to Hell of you have sex?

Don
It is best that that people do not participate in the modern "sex revolution".
Free and easy sex is one of the great curses people spread.
Fred

don
It is best that that people do not participate in the modern "sex revolution".
Free and easy sex is one of the great curses people spread.
Fred

I repeat what I said Fred
Not handing out condoms does not automatically mean that people will not have sex!
So which is better. Handing out condoms in the hope that sexually active people will use them or tell them that abstinence is the only way and you will go to Hell of you have sex?

Come on Fred, please answer a question for once.

don
It is best that that people do not participate in the modern "sex revolution".
Free and easy sex is one of the great curses people spread.
FredI think hatred is the great curse that people spread. I think sex is nice.

Don,
I thought that I answered your question.
Abstinence IS the best way to avoid sex transmitted diseases and other sex priblems.
No I will not say that if you have sex you will go to hell.
That is for God to decide not me or you.
God knows the heart and mind of each one of us.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Part of the issues, when used as instructed, they have a failure rate of 3 percent, The percentage of failure when used as normal is estimated at 10 percent,

So they give somewhat a unreal level of protection to those that believe they will be 100 percent effective for the users.

The idea is that the only real protection is just not having sex, sex only in marriage with no cheating, and the aids issue will almost disappear.

So in reality the Pope has the only real cure or end to the cause of the problem, uncontrolled sexual behavior.

I didn't know whether to put this in religion or politics, or health, or what. So, here goes..


From Times Online
March 17, 2009
Pope says condoms are not the solution to Aids - they make it worse
Pope Benedict XVI waves as he boards an Alitalia Boeing 777 at Fiumicino Airport

The Pope departing for Africa today - his first trip to the continent
Richard Owen in Rome

The Pope courted further controversy on his first trip to Africa today by declaring that condoms were not a solution to the Aids epidemic – but were instead part of the problem.

I heard the above on the news this morning and was shocked. I certainly hope that Catholics that hang on his every word don't hang on those.:(

Maybe its because I am catholic or that I have another way of thinking about this. You know what Condoms are not the solution to the Aids epidemic. That is true, and it is not because the Pope is saying it. Education about diseases, and many other factors that cause the spread so wildly in africa are in need of looking at. Condoms can cause a false sense of security. Aids is an epidemic and what needs to be done is to find a cure and educate people on how to avoid spreading it.

Fr_Chuck,
EXACTLY!!
Thanks,
Fred

Part of the issues, when used as instructed, they have a failure rate of 3 percent, The percentage of failure when used as normal is estimated at 10 percent,

So they give somewhat a unreal level of protection to those that beleive they will be 100 percent effective for the users.

The the idea is that the only real protection is just not having sex, sex only in marriage with no cheating, and the aids issue will almost disappear.

So in reality the Pope has the only real cure or end to the cause of the problem, uncontrolled sexual behavior.

While this is a wonderful idea and in a perfect World would certainly be the answer. In the sex charged world that we live in this is pure fantasy. So saying that condoms is not the answer is sort of stupid don't you think?

Handing out condoms only encourages more sex rather than not having sex.Hello Fred:

I'd heard that before.. So, I put it to the test...

I want sex right now. I don't have a condom. I ran out to the drug store and bought a condom. I held it tightly in my hand and thought really hard... But, I didn't want sex any more WITH a condom, than I did WITHOUT one.

Maybe you have a different experience. Or, maybe you just believe the crap you're told. I don't know.

excon

Maybe its because I am catholic or that I have another way of thinking about this. You know what Condoms are not the solution to the Aids epidemic. That is true, and it is not because the Pope is saying it. Education about diseases, and many other factors that cause the spread so wildly in africa are in need of looking at. Condoms can cause a false sense of security. Aids is an epidemic and what needs to be done is to find a cure and educate people on how to avoid spreading it.

It's not that condoms replace education. It's not that condoms replace moral judgment. It's just that it is a VERY stupid thing to not encourage , even DIScourage the use of condoms when they could save lives of those not privy to the education or moral aptitude.

excon,
LOL
Your are joking, right?
Fred

cozyk,
The fact is that condoms are really not safe.
The fact is that the use of condoms will not stop the aids epidemic.
Not having promiscuous sex WILL help stop it.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Your are joking, right?Hello again, Fred:

Well, I am being my usual wisea$$, but no, I'm not joking. I don't believe that condoms promote sex, any more than I believe that sex education promotes sex. I believe that sex promotes sex.

Here's my example for that. It's true, by the way. My first memory of sex was when I was about 3. My mom took me into a department store. I looked up a manikins dress. Of course, there was nothing to see, and I didn't know what I was looking for anyway... But, I sure did like what I was seeing...

When I finally LEARNED what it was that I was looking for, my desire to see it again didn't grow stronger.

excon

cozyk,
The fact is that condoms are really not safe.
The fact is that the use of condoms will not stop the aids epidemic.
Not having promiscuous sex WILL help stop it.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Oh Fred, you are leaving out many segments of our earths population.
Not everything that is related to sex other than sex between two health married people is "promiscuous". From now on I will refer to the married sex as "proper sex".

What do you say to the aids infected person that contacted it during another time in their life and now has a committed partner/spouse? Should they refrain from sex forever? And don't forget the innocent victims that have gotten aids through blood transfusions, dental work, accidentally stuck with needles, are rape victims, or born with it. Are you and the pope saying they should lead a life of celibacy?

I am in no way promoting promiscuous sex. But neither am I naïve enough to think that "proper sex" is the ONLY way to greatly reduce the aids epidemic. Notice I did not say wipe out, I said greatly reduce. And isn't it better to use all things at our disposal, education, moral examples, and condoms than to totally count on "proper sex" to stop it.

I just think the popes statement was very irresponsible and short sited. And unfortunately, there are still people that believe if the pope said it, it must be right.

Cosyk,
You have made some good valid points.
In no way do I think that having "proper sex' is the ONLY way to prevent the spread is AIDS.
BUT it is a very good way to slow the spread down to a crawl.
Thanks for offering your points.
Fred

Hello Fred:

I'd heard that before.. So, I put it to the test....

I want sex right now. I don't have a condom. I ran out to the drug store and bought a condom. I held it tightly in my hand and thought really hard.... But, I didn't want sex any more WITH a condom, than I did WITHOUT one.

Maybe you have a different experience. Or, maybe you just believe the crap you're told. I dunno.

excon

EX, you set yourself up too easily :D

You need a partner





G&P

It's not that condoms replace education. It's not that condoms replace moral judgment. It's just that it is a VERY stupid thing to not encourage , even DIScourage the use of condoms when they could save lives of those not privy to the education or moral aptitude.

If we were encouraging sex without condoms, it would be stupid.

But we aren't. We encourage abstinence. That is the only sure way to avoid sexually transmitted disease.

This has probably already been posted here, I just thought I'd try to elicit some responses. This is Fred's OP on another discussion:

Harvard scientist: Those mocking pontiff's stand are wrong


Posted: March 23, 2009
9:58 pm Eastern
By Drew Zahn
© 2009 WorldNetDaily
A senior Harvard research scientist confirmed that Pope Benedict XVI, who endured heavy criticism for declaring that condom distribution programs worsen the AIDS epidemic in Africa, was actually correct.
Dr. Edward C. Green, director of the AIDS Prevention Research Project at the Harvard Center for Population and Development
Studies, told National Review Online last week that despite AIDS activists and media outlets pounding the pope for downplaying the effectiveness of condoms, the science actually supports the Catholic leader's claim.
"The pope is correct," Green told NRO, "or put it a better way, the best evidence we have supports the pope's comments."
"There is," Green added, "a consistent association shown by our best studies, including the U.S.-funded 'Demographic Health Surveys,' between greater availability and use of condoms and higher (not lower) HIV-infection rates. This may be due in part to a phenomenon known as risk compensation, meaning that when one uses a risk-reduction 'technology' such as condoms, one often loses the benefit (reduction in risk) by 'compensating' or taking greater chances than one would take without the risk-reduction technology."
Aboard a plane traveling to Yaounde, Cameroon, last week, a French reporter told Benedict that the Catholic approach to combating AIDS – encouraging monogamy within marriage and abstinence before – was often considered unrealistic and ineffective.
According to transcripts released by the Vatican, Benedict responded, "This problem of AIDS cannot be overcome merely with money, necessary though it is. If there is no human dimension, if Africans do not help [by responsible behavior], the problem cannot be overcome by the distribution of prophylactics: on the contrary, they increase it."
Benedict immediately came under fire in the international press for proclaiming just what Green says the studies support: Encouraging fidelity in sexual relations decreases the spread of AIDS, and condom distribution programs increase it.
(Story continues below)
Rebecca Hodes, head of policy, communications and research for the Treatment Action Campaign in South Africa, blasted the pope for not advocating wide access to condoms as a means of combating AIDS.
"His opposition to condoms conveys that religious dogma is more important to him than the lives of Africans," Hodes told the Associated Press.
Learn how Americans have been sold the idea that what earlier generations condemned now is good, in the best-selling "The Marketing of Evil"
"We call on the Pope to revisit the teachings on condoms with a view to lifting the ban at the earliest possible moment," said Jon O'Brien, president of Catholics for Choice. "In his review, we want him to include experts who are unequivocal that condoms do in fact help prevent the spread of HIV."
Syndicated columnist Roland Martin writes on CNN.com that the pope's position demonstrated "ignorance of reality."
"For the church," Martin writes, "to continue to ignore the definitive research that condoms play a huge role in decreasing the spread of HIV/AIDS and other sexually transmitted diseases is mind-boggling."
Even the Vatican, according to a report in the London Times, backtracked slightly on the pope's remarks, adding a word to Benedict's remarks, stating he said distribution of condoms merely "risked" increasing the spread of AIDS.
According to Green, however, the pope's critics have bought into a common myth about condoms and AIDS.
"We have found no consistent associations between condom use and lower HIV-infection rates," said Green, "which, 25 years into the pandemic, we should be seeing if this intervention was working."
Instead, Green noted, the pope's encouragement of Africans toward monogamous sexual relationships has proven to be a much more effective strategy:
"The best and latest empirical evidence indeed shows that reduction in multiple and concurrent sexual partners is the most important single behavior change associated with reduction in HIV-infection rates," Green said.
In Uganda, according to a report in Science magazine, teaching about AIDS and promoting monogamy has led to a dramatic turnaround in the country's AIDS epidemic.
"Human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) is preventable if populations are mobilized to avoid risk," states the report's summary. "Despite limited resources, Uganda has shown a 70 percent decline in HIV prevalence since the early 1990s, linked to a 60 percent reduction in casual sex. The response in Uganda appears to be distinctively associated with communication about [AIDS] through social networks. Despite substantial condom use and promotion of biomedical approaches, other African countries have shown neither similar behavioral responses nor HIV prevalence declines of the same scale. The Ugandan success is equivalent to a vaccine of 80 percent effectiveness."
Green further told NRO, "More and more AIDS experts are coming to accept the above. The two countries with the worst HIV epidemics, Swaziland and Botswana, have both launched campaigns to discourage multiple and concurrent partners, and to encourage fidelity."

De Maria,
Thanks for posting that.
It needs to be seen by many in different places.
Fred