Below is a picture of my 3-piece basement bathroom rough in.

The main drain runs to the left in the picture (you might be able to see the pencil mark I made on the floor).

The current location of the rough in doesn't work for me but I've got no idea what's happening below the floor.

The second image shows the new layout of the basement bathroom.

Any tips on which pipe is the vent and how I should redo the drains for the new layout?

Tx LBJGH

http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/4183/rough20in20drains.jpg
http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/8735/bathroomg.jpg

Lbjgh:

First thing to establish is the direction of the main drain...

You suggest that it could be to the left of the 3" drain (pencil mark on concrete), but that 4" drain pipe appears to head in the other direction..?

Check out the fitting at the 4" as it goes into the concrete and see what direction it heads off too....

Unless you know something for sure, and can't tell by the fitting at 4", I would have you chip out some concrete from around the 4" and see exactly where it goes.

After that is established we can help you with the new layout... no problem... ;)

MARK

Thanks Mark.

I'm sure the drain is as per the attached image since I have a clean out at the front of the house... and one outside the house at that location.

LBJGH

http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/1694/clipboard01t.jpg

Hi Lbjgh:

It is always hard to say how things got piped underground. Where I come from we would run the largest pipe in a straight line from the main drain (4" in your case) and then branch off the largest drain to pick up the other fixtures... see picture of potential undergound plumbing below.

With that in mind, I would see if you can start by attaching onto the existing toilet pipe. Here, you would chop up the concrete in this area and simply extend the toilet pipe the 15" or so that it needs to move. You would also move that existing 2" vent into the nearest wall. Just cap the 1.5" vent off below grade.

Then, see picture proposed underground plumbing, you would connect into the 3" drain pipe BEHIND the toilet pipe and toilet vent (see green circle in bottom picture) and run all pipes from that point. The 4" would be cut off and have a cleanout installed flush with the floor.

From there the picture kind of explains all. You will need individual vents for each fixture, except for the floor drain... can use the shower vent for the floor drain. Here, you will have an 1.5" vent for lavatory, an 1.5" vent for the washing machine, a 2" vent for the shower/floor drain vent, and a 2" vent for the toilet. These can all combine up in the ceiling and run off as a single 2" vent to join any other 2" vent in the house.

What will keep the floor drain wetted? If nothing then you may need to consider adding a trap primer to the floor drain...

Also, be clear, that all of this depends on the plumbing code that prevails in your area. You would want to talk to a local plumbing inspector and see what he thinks about all this... ;)

Hopefully, that gets you started. Let me know what you think...

MARK

Wow! Thanks Mark, that's an awesome right up and exactly what I needed before I pull out my sledgehammer. ;)

I have a high efficiency furnace and water softener that will prime the new floor and I was actually thinking about sticking in a dedicated drain for the furnace and softener connected to the new floor drain.

As you open this up, let us know what you discover.

Glad to help!

MARK

Let the games begin...

I cleared out the junk and started laying out the floor plan to make sure everything fits as planned.

I made the w/c 3'x5-1/2'... I hope it ain't too small

The damn w/c flange is only off by about 6" but I have to break the floor anyway right. :eek:

Yes... there is no alternative here for the water closet. At a minimum you want the toilet centered at 18" in a 36" room and don't forget to rough the flange in so it is between 11.5" to 12" max. from the rear rough stud-wall.

I would love to see you open that toilet room to 40" if possible... more comfortable for larger people. Up to you, of course... ;)

You need to break that area up anyway to cut into the toilet drain BEHIND the toilet vent connection (see green circle at previous picture)... right?

.

Yep, going to do lots of concrete breaking. :)

Space is tight for the w/c but I'll see what I can do...

I'll post pics of what I find under the concrete.

Have fun! Glad it's someone else this time... :)

Once you get this opened up pop back and we'll spend some time reviewing how to roll the vent fittings above the centerline of the drain serving each fixture... bit more to this... ;)


MARK

K, now I've got a hole in the floor I have some answers. I was expecting the drains to be deeper than they are but I got what I got. ;)

I'll draw up an idea for the drains and post later for your expert opinion. :)

Basically the new shower drain is about the same distance from the 3" ABS pipe (just the other direction) and I was thinking about moving the drain for the washer over to the other wall and draining the vanity to that location...

LBJGH

OK, I have some idea how I'd like to run the drains Mark. Care to comment?

Where is the vanity going?

Drain through the wall(s) so I don't have to break the floor all the way across. I figure it's easier to make a connection to the wet vent at 1/4 per foot through the wall than tie into the exisitng drain. It's about 16'so I'd need 4" of fall. I can run the vent for the vanity above the "flood line" of the vanity through the same wall(s).




Where is the vanity going?

Hey again...

I know you must be very anxious by now... sorry for the delays here.

If you draw this up as you need it I will draw out the underground. You have started to mix wet vents and drain lines by removing the floor drain but using wet vent near sink and washing machine.

Note here that you cannot use the lavatory vent to wet vent the washing machine. You can use the lavatory vent to wet vent the toilet, but that means running a second drain pipe for the washing machine...

This is getting complicated to explain... ;)

Draw up a plan for me. Show me any existing pipes and exactly where everything goes...

I am glad to help, but don't want to trip on something and screw this up for you... O.K?

Let me know...

MARK

Nop, I'm not getting anxious Mark... I appreciate your help and I'm just trying to be cautious before I move forward.

Does this sketch make sense?

OK... getting there.

As I stated in my last post, you are getting confused abit on wet venting, but no big deal as we can fix that now.

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _____
Eliminate the wet vent idea.

Add a separate 2" vent for the toilet (see pic.)...right now the toilet is wet vented by a washing machine. You can't do that!

Reverse the wye fitting for the floor drain (you may or may not need the vent for the floor drain...some towns do not require a vent for these...call local inspector and see what he thinks about venting floor drains).

Make it a 2"x1.5" sanitary tee for the vanity drain as washing machine requires a 2" drain above fitting for vanity drain (see other picture)... ;)
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ______

Now, drilling all those studs will be time consuming and you must use a long sweep elbow as make the corners with the waste line to vanity. The vents return can have regular 90s.

Then you will need to pipe the washing machine waste/lavatory waste and all vents that combine here as in my picture below:

Let me know if you have more questions...

MARK

Thanks Mark, you've been a big help. I checked code where I live and the floor drain doesn't need a vent provided it is 3" diameter and 450mm (18") from the horizontal drainage pipe.

... off to break more concrete. :)

Thanks again,
LBJGH

Hey Mark, water's running down hill my friend.

I abandoned the floor drain and just stuck with the original 3-pc setup.

I will plumb the vents after I get the walls up.

Thanks for the advice.
LBJGH

All looks great... EXCEPT the shower drain and toilet vent...:( What kind of shower unit are you planning on installing? Have you researched the connection? Let me know.

And where is the VENT for the toilet? I drew it into the pic. Below at earlier post (post #17) so you wouldn't miss it..?

Get back to me with information.. OK?

Otherwise, nice work on all this including the floor patch! I love a smooth patch job!

MARK
https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/attachments/plumbing/17227d1236256417-wet-venting-layout-basement-bathroom-rough-drains33.jpg

The local code permits both the shower and w/c to be wet vented. I talked to the local plumbing inspector and he provided a chart showing 3 fixture units (not including the w/c) can be wet vented off the 2".

The shower is a MAXX Montego 48". This unit leave about 1/4 clearance between the floor and the underside of the I-beam so the floor drain had to be installed from the inside of the show after sliding the shower over the drain opening. I installed a Watts shower drain that I can threaded into the fitting from the inside of the shower.

Double post

OK... but did the inspector know that a washing machine would be on the drain line acting as a wet vent for the toilet? In my area, that is not allowed.

May be that it is allowed in your area... ;) Hope so!

OH, and sanitary TEE fittings are not allowed to be used as horizontal drain pipes as when you picked up the shower drain in post #19... no matter what state you live in! Just FYI and for others that may read this thread in the future!

Thanks for update!

MARK

Why would the code in ontario permit the sanitary T or short turn TY? See attached

The washing machine is considered an appliance here. Isn't the vanity wet venting? I can hook the vanity drain above the washing machine stand pipe when I run the drains and vents in the walls.

That explained it... you're from Ontario! Codes vary dramatically across the U.S.A. alone... never mind Canada or the UK... ;)

Check on this, but the laundry drain will need to have its own vent. Then the sink vent can wet vent the toilet and shower... just hoping the toilet or shower don't bubble and spit a bit when the washing machine drains past the unvented toilet..?

I don't want to worry you... just want you to have best outcome.


Good luck!

MARK

Thanks again Mark. I'm pretty comfortable with the drain and wet vent layout now. In retrospect It would have been better hydraulically if I used a "Y" and a 90 instead of a short turn "TY" for the shower drain

I'll update down the road... I'll let you know if my washer blows bubbles. ;)

Let me know if the TOILET bubbles... washing machine will be fine!

Have a good day!

... update Mark.

The TY is only permitted on a vertical pipe so I installed the Y. Then I installed a dedicated vent for the shower. I left the toilet wet vented by the vanity which was correct.

Haha, I taught my kids some new swear words installing the "Y". ;)

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/3295/ventforshower.jpg

I didn't think codes varied that much between countries... ;) Geez! I am so sorry to see you tear that up. I'm impressed that you dug it up though... most wouldn't have!

The toilet is now WET VENTED by the shower... by the way... :p:p This is how I would have done it.. so I am glad to report that you are finally all set... in my eyes anyway!

And just for the future (don't go changing anything,OK?)... that vent fitting should have rolled above the centerline of the drain pipe to be a legal vent... even if only 22.5 degrees. In other words, you should have installed a street 22.5 degree fitting into the vent tee and then piped that into a 90... see picture. Just more FYI...for the NEXT BATHROOM!!

Thank you for popping back to let me know. I appreciate that!

MARK

Thanks for your help Mark.

Almost ready for walls. ;)