I am getting ready to embark on a home addition. It will be 10'x5' and will be three stories high. The rest of my home has a flat roof and for consistency sake we would like the addition to have a flat roof as well. Can anyone help me figure out how to frame a flat roof?

The addition will be tying into a brick house, so on one side the rafters will be attached to a ledger board, on the other side they will rest on a double sill plate created by a new wood framed exterior wall.

First, given the addition is small, what size rafters do you suggest, will 2x10s suffice? What about 2x12?

Second, what sort of slope is necessary for a flat roof?

Finally, how do you frame it to get that slope?

Hi Stubits. This has to be the smallest 3 story addition I have heard of in 30+ years of building.

So to answer the floor joist size. This will depend somewhat on the size of the floor joist you have on the main structure so the door to each floor works in elevation. Unless you don't care to maintain the same ceilings heights the main house has.

A 2x8 16 o.c. at 5 feet is good if the code allows it


As far as the Roof pitch, a 1/4 per foot min is what I go by for "flat" roof. I also you 0.60 rubber for for the flat.

Now here's what you may want to think about for the roof. How much insulation thickness you need and it needs to vented.

You ask how to bulid the flat roof. This depends on the adjoining roof beside it, and which way it slopes. You could continue the same slope being the add is only 5 feet wide. You could knee wall it above the other flat roof and pitch it either way. With knowing the specifics of the old off heights or slope I'm just giving ideas here.

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This is great info! I'd rate your answer, but the system wants to me rate someone else first.

It is a small addition, but just right for us, really. It will help us gain an extra 1.5 baths, which is all we really need.

As for the floor joists, we are actually planning on using 2x12s throughout, mostly because there will be lots of plumbing, and as such, unfortunately some holes will need to be drilled in the joists, not too many, but a couple, for sure. We aren't too concerned with maintaining ceiling heights, as our ceilings are rather high, but we are working to make sure to keep the doors at the same elevation. Thanks for all your advice on those points.

As for the roof itself, we are looking for R-36 level insulation. Our current roof isn't vented (it's a 75 year old home). How are flat roofs typically vented? Please see the accompanying photo, we are effectively enclosing the dog ear area of the home's footprint. I guess what I am trying to figure out is specifically how to frame the flat roof. We'll install ledger boards along the long brick wall for the floor joists and I am thinking I will do the same for the roof, right? Given that the roof will slope down over 10', the base of the roof will be approximately 2.5" lower than the top, right? I think I understand how to do that on the ledger board, but how does that work on the other side, where the joists rest on the stick framed wall? Do I notch the joists slightly as they go down?

I've never built a roof before, let alone a flat one, so any help would be much appreciated! I will hire a rougher to actually finish the roof off, but I plan on framing it myself. The roofer will flash it, etc.

Thanks!

After I posted I thought about possible mechanicals in the floor joist.

As far as venting the flat roof, here's s a site that has vents for intake and exhaust. One vent pushes air in and the other takes it out.

Rooftop System (http://www.roofvents.com/rooftop.html)

Framing the roof should be 2x12s. The reason is you need the rafter depth at the end where the rafter sits on the outside wall to be high enough off the house plate to get "R" value and a 2" air space "baffels" above that.

Since your home is 75 years old and if its all brick you could use the brick wall and cut rafter pockets in the brick since all double brick walls are considered a bearing wall. Again just giving possibilities here.

I would cut a seat for the rafter to go on new double plate. Also I would use Simpson HZ.5AZ hurricane straps.

Builders Hardware - Building Materials at The Home Depot (http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Navigation?Ntk=AllProps&N=10000003+90133+501544&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053&langId=-1) for the rafter to the top plate on both sides.

Check your codes.

Are you going to have any kind of overhang on the new roof?

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21-

This is excellent information. Many, many thanks.

I've considered the idea of cutting rafter pockets right into the brick, but in the end I think using ledger boards will be easier for me to do, and I believe I'll end up with the same strength, etc. I'd do this for both the floor joists as well as the roof. This should work OK, right? I'd be bolting the ledger board to the brick wall.

So, a couple of quick questions. First, for the upper level of the addition, are the ceiling joists and the roof joists the same? Or do I install ceiling joists and then install a separate set of roof joists above that?

As for the roof construction, I am still confused (sorry!). I am attaching a photo that might help. You see the cutback in the house, right? That's where the addition will be. So, the right wall will be the brick wall, where I will install the ledger boards, and the back wall will be the brick wall. The right wall will actually be built on top of the basement to the left (which is actually a party wall on my property (the city and the neighbor have agreed). What I am just not understanding is how to handle the roof joists where they rest on the stick framed wall on the left. What do you mean by "cut a seat" for the rafter to go on?

Thanks! Sorry I am just not able to picture it!

Or do I install ceiling joists and then install a separate set of roof joists above that?


It a matter of looking at a flat ceiling inside or a slanted ceiling. Either or can work.

18. Laying Off Common Rafter Seat Cut And End Cut (http://chestofbooks.com/home-improvement/woodworking/Ira-S-Griffith/Carpentry/18-Laying-Off-Common-Rafter-Seat-Cut-And-End-Cut.html)

Measuring, Marking & Layout: A ... - Google Book Search (http://books.google.com/books?id=1MG0SvspEToC&pg=PA115&lpg=PA115&dq=rafter+seat&source=bl&ots=Ly14fpk0zx&sig=727mM-_JlfPLeaTg-E6V-5zfyA0&hl=en&ei=GgKjSaqcAaDkmQeLx_X3DA&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=5&ct=result#PPA116,M1)

This should help you. The seat is cut in the rafter and makes a bird mouth.

So far I don't see any pictures ? Check your post.

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Here is the pic, sorry!

Good image. I assume you are going to slant the roof from the back of the alcove towards the front coming towards me.

You have what is called a parapet wall in the alcove that protects the rain from coming down on the steps. Use the brick for a ledger/nailer to attach adjustable rafter hangers. When you or whoever puts the rubber roof on use a side drip edge that has a standing seam. This will act as a parapet wall and control the water from running over the side edge dumping rain on the neighbors

A standing seam drip edge is what's used for a built up roof or a tar roof. Its like a regular drip edge but it a has a little 90 dergee at its edge that is flat if its standard drip edge.

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I'll definitely hire a pro to do the roof. Can't imagine a 10'x5' roof is going to be all that expensive and it pays to have it done right. That said, thanks so much for the heads up on the standing seam drip edge... I will be sure to remember that.

Would something like this work as an adjustable hanger? THA/THAC/THAR/L Adjustable Truss Hangers (http://www.strongtie.com/products/connectors/THA-THAC.asp)

So, it seems as though you have lots of experience with this stuff. Would you mind if I asked you a couple of additional questions?

1) The addition will be constructed with wood studs, of course, and covered in Hardie Panel (Hardie's vertical siding. My question is, how do I handle the vertical seam between the addition, Hardie panel, and the original home, brick. Clearly I cannot just but the Hardie Panel up to the brick as water could easily enter, but would flashing work in the application?

2) So, a bit of a math question. Is it possible and code friendly to run 3" PVC through 2x12 joists for a distance of 13' while keeping the 1/4" per 1' slope? I guess I will have to go through about 12 joists. Like I said, the joists are 2x12s and span about 16'. They are 16" OC. I have done the math and I think the answer is yes, but would appreciate any insight.

Thanks!

This is the styles of hangers I was referring too.

Simpson Strong-Tie Video Library (http://www.strongtie.com/videolibrary/con-lssu.html)

Yes use flashing in the corner where the brick and new wall meet.

Where did the 16' joist come from? I thought the add was 10'

I not sure what your insp is there but I wouldn't be running a 3" through 13 feet of joist. Can the joist be turned if these are new joist?

Check with the inspector. He may say no, or make you sister up where the joist are going to be hole sawed for the main sewer line. Can you drop that sewer line in a built corner chase-way? Or run a soffit under the joist?

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Once again, thanks!

Those hangers make sense. Simpson has so many options!

16' joists exist in the current house. The joists for the addition will be just 5' spans. Since they are existing joists, turning them just isn't an option, and frankly, neither is sistering given the space is finished. A soffit would work, for sure, but I was hoping to avoid it. I will check with the inspector to get his opinion. Generally though, you'd advise against it, right?

Ok, so, for flashing between the addition and the current wall. I was planning on caulking the joint well. Some people have suggested I set the finished addition wall back a little from the brick wall, what do you think about that? What sort of flashing would you recommend using? I cannot come up with anything that seems like it would help?

I wouldn't worry about the brick corner for sealing.

When you go to sheet in the side and I assume you are going to use OSB ext sheeting. Just use 100% silicone caulk the edge of first sheet as you butt that against the brick. After the OSB and what ever house wrap you use. Install the corner flashing with the one end bent at a 90 to the with of the siding " hardie plank" this will double seal at the initial façade and the back up is the sheeting is also sealed.

Setting the wall back really doesn't do anything. If water gets to the OSB its going be a problem weather its slipped back behind the old brick return wall or not.

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Thanks so much. Just yesterday I found a great guide by Hardie. Here is an image of what they suggest. If I follow this, I should be fine, right? Or would you suggest anything further?

Also, it is a multistory house and so the instructions indicate I need to run horizontal Z-flashing at each floor division. How to I handle where the horizontal z flashing meets the corner flashing?

Moving even further off topic(!), the house currently has forced air heat and AC. We'd like to have a vent in each of the three floors (just one as each floor is only 50 sq. ft), but the ductwork for the first two floors would have to run through those solid 8" thick brick walls. Any suggestions? Getting the ductwork to the wall isn't an issue, but getting it through is. Any thoughts?

Hi Stubits I never used Hardie siding here in Pa. But what I'm wondering is what is the 1x4/2x4 end for?
The basic here on the warning from hardie say never butt the siding against the brick which I agree 100%, Apparently they don't want the lap siding to get close to and end wall.
I looked up hardie and read it has a 50 year transferable warranty. What's strange there trim board is only 15 years warranty

This proprietary process for fiber cement trim ensures uniform coverage of sealer and primer, providing an excellent surface for paints. HardieTrim boards come with a 15-year transferable limited warranty.
This proprietary process ensures uniform coverage of sealer and primer, providing an excellent surface for paints and also resisting fungus and mildew. HardiePanel vertical siding comes with a 50-year transferable limited warranty.

I would follow hardies specks to the tee to maintain the warranty. The flashing between the floors is a good question. I would guess they want horizontal flashing every 8 acting as a weep moisture system. The siding must be prone to moisture behind it?. and needs to weep out every so often.

As far as the heat/AC. Its dusty to punch through the brick but We commonly due it as all other contractors. Hears the most important issue. Get at least 3 HVAC contractors to look at you system to make sure it can handle the added addition. Heat fairly easy but AC is a heavy air to push and move. Also think of air returns for each floor.
Example a 90 on a heat run is equivalent to the same resistance and push as a 10' straight pipe.

The horizontal flashing I assume comes with the hardie system. If it does then it mimics the lap siding and sheds water and what ever gets past that is still shedded in the counter flashing where brick meets new wall


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So, what do you use for siding up in PA? Do you have a favorite?

I think the trim is mostly decorative from what I've read and not really required.

The horizontal flashing makes sense to me, but do you have any thoughts on how to handle where it intersects with the vertical corner flashing?

The good and the bad news is that my HVAC system is WAY oversized. We bought the house about 6 months ago and the previous owners had installed a 5 ton air handler in our 1,400 sq. ft. home. We have more than enough capacity to add a couple of extra vents. I'll be sure to add return air vents in all but the bathrooms.

So, aside from all the dust, no worries cutting through the brick, structural I mean? Do I need to add lintels? Or just cut open a hole?

Thanks!

Hears the simple science when cutting through a brick or block wall and what needs supported directly above that cut out.

Weather its block or brick, you look at the opening you want and the top center of that opening. From each side follow the masonry joints heading towards the center of the opening like going up steps following the bed and head joints. When you reach the center of the opening you want, look at the wall size below you (a triangle( that wall area is what will need supported by a header/angle iron/flat steal.

This basic structural science applies perfectly until these variables change. There needs to be enough lateral side weight and volume where you start the steps to support the arch itself. Also if the opening is big and you get to the top and didn't reach the center of the stepped arch, then the load above that will be direct down pressure to your opening below.
I maybe got to deep on cutting openings in masonry, One job alone for me were 28 windows cut in a 4 story all brick ware house for reg windows. Been cutting through masonry structures for 30+ years. Being a mason as my first trade makes it easy for me.

It goes back to the natural arch support. Except your arch is in brick courses that are stepped.


On a small opening like duct work many times there are no lintel's put in for header support. Some times we will just put in some flat steel and grove out the side brick joints and that just carries the brick above.

The duct work you need for those small rooms will more than likely be 6" round or less. If flex duct are used then a metal "thimble" is used to to sleeve through wall.. They also may use 2 1/4 x12 wall stack to punch through and boot the end for grill.

I have no real favorite siding except brick or shadow rock. My town was founded in the 1700s and is all brick in the city. The newer houses have vinyl/ fake stone/ brick or stone. Stucco also


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Thanks so much. I am going to be doing as much of this myself as possible, so it is good to know my options. Which would you suggest, round duct or the wall stack?

Actually both can be applied. When you run a heat run with round pipe and then need to go up through a floor you use a "boot" that goes from round to 2 1/4x12 which can connect to a wall stack or a floor register can connect there.

A wall stack is commonly used when AC is involved. It fits between a 2x4 studded wall. The stack is in that wall cavity and two openings are cut into it for l closeable grills.

In the winter you shut the top grill and open the bottom so heat comes out the bottom. For A.C. you do the opposite. The AC comes out of the top grill (bottom closed) " wall stack" hi lo is the best way to control/distribute the warm and cold.

To many times I'm in a home and the top floor has a floor register which is fine for heat. But for AC it's a bust. The cold air lays on the floor, goes under the door bottom and drops down the steps. That's a perfect way to screw up AC.

Many times the air return is in the common floor hall and that helps suck out the low lying cold air right out of the bedrooms and down the steps

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Ok, so lots here.

First, I am not actually using the Hardie Plank siding, instead, the vertical Hardie Panel. The horizontal flashing isn't part of the system, just standard z-flashing. I guess my question is, when I get to where the horizontal (z-flashing) and the vertical (corner flashing) meet, how do I handle it? Do I run the z-flashing right on top of the corner flashing? Under? Do they butt up against one another?

On the HVAC, our system isn't too advanced. It isn't easy running HVAC in a 75 year old rowhouse with solid brick party walls. On the main floor of the house all the supply vents are on the floor. In the basement and the second level of the home they are on the ceiling. In the addition we are going to keep 2 of the 4 walls as exposed brick. It gives us a little extra clearance and we like the look a lot. Also, with the exception of the new upper level bath, the addition rooms will be connected to currently heated/air conditioned space without doors. I figure we'll maintain the current setup, vents in the floor on the main level and in the ceilings on the other two.

One question I have for the OP

Since this is obviously a row home and this is the back door entrance for both homes... Have you asked your adjoining neighbor if they have any objections to this "addition" you intend on doing? I'd ask before starting the project.

Twinkie-

Thanks again for your concern, but your questions and comments have little to do with the questions being asked.

21 Boat-

Back to the original question. I am going to have a pro do the actual roofing work, I will just frame it. How do I go about building the parapet on the left side?

Also, you're a mason, right? I am thinking about building the lower level of the addition out of 6" CUMs with a brick veneer. As you can see from the photo posted earlier, Id need to build out the wall on the left by about 2.5' and then the front wall is about 5', but it will have a standard size exterior door. The wall would be about 10' high. Should I hire a mason to do this, or is this something I can do myself? Also, we will be cutting a couple of different holes into the house, two doorways on the upper level and we will be cutting out the brick under the window on the second level. Is it possible to reuse this brick as part of the veneer? Also, is it possible to work the veneer into the original brick work to avoid a vertical line?

parapet/ I am thinking about building the lower level of the addition out of 6" CUMs with a brick veneer.
Yes, I'm a Prof mason along with all other trades form ground up,includes excavating.
I'm not sure how you are framing up that side of the structure. Are you using anchor bolts through the existing brick wall to carry the floor load? Or are you framing up on that side beside the existing brick wall?

The reason I ask is this could make some difference on the parapet wall.

To raise parapet wall remove cap flashing and really check that brick for being sound and tight. More so than not there may be semi loose brick on what's there. If sound lay more brick on to of the existing wall to raise it. Re flash cap.
I don't know what kind of roof you have there now but if you are going to put new rubber roof on addition I would consider doing the rest of the roof in rubber. I could walk you through that also

From what you want to do in masonry work I would strongly suggest to sub that out. There's on thing about masonry work that most don't understand. Is a trade skill that's is developed over years of training and doing it. Its really not a DIY for most all. Its not like measuring and cutting 2bys/framing and roofing.

To reuse the brick as part of the veneer would be bad. You are not going to match the brick there now perfectly. I would reuse the brick for the parapet wall and Recycle that way.

To tie in "tooth" the new brick to the old brick would be good. But not every course. For one it's a lot of work for every other course. Also the new brick need to be dead on in size to match course and mortar Joints. If you want to brake up the long vertical joint tie in one brick every 6 to 7 courses. Or tie in every 3 courses and the tie in will be 3 courses of the new brick then 3 of old brick left alone then 3 new brick tie in. That pattern is along the lines of a "coin corner" look and seems like it was planned for the look. ( which it was)

If you are going to build the lower level out of brick you will need 10" block for foundation and then 6" block.

If I was going to brick veneer the wall I would lay a 6" solid for the wall/floor plate. Frame up from there in 2x6s. use the 4" ledge left beside the 4"x6" solid cap for the brick veneer. I would brick veneer all the way up to roof. If you use 6" block for the first floor to that ceiling and plate from there you will need to offset the second floor wall plate to flush with the first floor brick wall that lays 4 1/2" from 6" block. Also to insulate the first floor with it being block will not be nearly as good as a framed wall. Also there's outlets to consider/ drywall to deal with and block wall etc.


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Thanks so much for all of the help! I really hope you don't mind me picking your many years of experience. I have a lot of questions, so please let me know if I get overwhelming. You have such a great command of the situation. By the way, my name is Adam, what is yours?

Roof

I think I am still a little lost here. Can we go back to the beginning on the roof construction?

I am planning on bolting a ledger board to the 10' brick wall on the left to carry the floor joists. They will span just 5' and rest on the stick framed wall on the other side. As we'd like a flat ceiling in the upper level room of the addition, I am planning on framing the ceiling out the same way, using a ledger board, etc. Now, how do I create the roof? Do you suggest that I run the roof joists perpendicular to the floor joists? That is to say, install a ledger board on the 5' brick wall at the back and span the roof joists 10' to rest on the stick frame wall of the addition? This would be done using the hangers you showed me earlier, is this right?

Ok, assuming that is correct, now, how does the parapet work? I am thinking that we would only really need to build one new parapet, right? Just on the left side to prevent water from running off onto my neighbor's porch, right? The water will run off the front and there are already parapets on the back and right sides, no? Would it be possible to have the roofer just run the rubber roof/membrane up the right and back sides and up and under the roof caps? Does this make sense? Does the parapet have to be built from brick? Wouldn't it be easier, under these circumstances to build it from lumber? Is that not an option? Am I just not understanding something?

Footer/Foundation

The addition will require an L-shaped footer. We have to build out the left wall by about 2.5' and then of course add a footer for the wall closest to the camera (in the earlier picture). Here is DC, footers need to be poured at 36" underground.
1) How deep is the footer usually?
2)How wide would you recommend it be?
3) Do I just build up from the footer using cement blocks? If so, what type and what size?
4) How do I attach the blocks to the footer, just use mortar?
5) Do I need to tie the new footer into the footer of the existing home?

First Floor Construction

I agree with you totally. I would prefer to build the first floor out of lumber, as opposed to CMU's. I am much more comfortable using lumber. My understanding of the code here is that there needs to be 6" of masonry (either cement stem wall) or CMUs before you can use lumber. Does this make sense?

We really do want to do brick veneer just on the lower level. I am actually planning on building the addition out of 2x4s. The space is just so small that every inch counts. We will be using high density foam insulation to get the appropriate R-value.

1) Do I build up from the footer with CMU's until I am 6" above grade?
2) Can I do brick veneer over a 2x4 wall?
3) Do I construct the wall the same? (That is to say, 2x4 framing, covered with plywood or OSB sheathing and then a housewrap of sorts?) Then the mason can come in and veneer the wall, right?
4) We really only want to veneer the first level with brick and then do the other two levels in hardie panel. Are you saying we are going to have some trouble doing that? Will the hardie panel end up being set back from the brick? Is that your concern? **I definitely think I will have a mason do the actual brick veneer, it doesn't seem worth it for me to do it myself and get it to look right.
5) Why do you suggest not using the brick we will remove from other parts of the house for the veneer? If we only veneer the bottom level I think we'll have more than enough salvaged from cutting opening openings in the rest of the home. I would think that brick would match much better than anything else. Are you saying no?

I am sure I have a million more questions, but this is all really starting to make sense. Thanks so much!

See if I can walk you through this. My Geo is footer needs to be 3' below grade.
Dig the footer per your code. Make it 2' wide by 8" thick with two lateral/parallel 1/2 rebar in it. Hammer drill into existing masonry two holes, spaced holes 12"" apart from each other and that 12" center is centered with the 2' wide footer.

So bar is now 4" above dirt of footer and 8" wide. Cut some shorties rebar and use them to stake up the two lateral footer rebar. ( wire tie vertical pin to lateral footer bars to keep them centered on footer crete pour.

I would pour footer no less than 3,500 Psi.

Lay 10" block on footer and stop it rich below finish grade. Now here is where you need to decide on brick veneer or not.

Lay a 4"x6"x16" solid on inside of new block wall. That leaves 4" in front of new cap for brick veneer. This crucial point depending on grade will change to 6" reg hollow and then cap(s)

Are you planning for the first floor to be concrete floor or wood?

Use mortar to lay block ( can tell the mix ratio there too) You don't necessarily have to go to old footer level. As long as your down deep enough by code. Get back to me on first floor elevation on weather it conc floor or wood. I suspect concrete because of no way to really ventilate it. When I say first floor I'm talking dirt grade level. So get back on that.

I'm going to stop there for now. Laying out the block and footer will depend on adjustment of first level floor for veneer and anchor bolter. Perlite (block insulation may play a role here.

Now to the roof.
I am planning on bolting a ledger board to the 10' brick wall on the left to carry the floor joists. They will span just 5' and rest on the stick framed wall on the other side. Good so far.

I am planning on framing the ceiling out the same way, using a ledger board, etc. Now, how do I create the roof? Do you suggest that I run the roof joists perpendicular to the floor joists? Since the roof long ways is only 10 feet+ I would run the top ceiling they way my roof joist will be. Reasons are this will eliminate a 10' ledger board on left side of wall. Also the ceiling joist can assist you to sister nail sloped roof rafters in height and location. This can sit better on the 5'+ outside plate of last front wall. Now here is a decision to make on roof heights which no matter what effects last ceiling height.

The back 5' parapet wall needs to be high enough for slope from there to finish wall plate ( front of addition) Also the side parapet walls may need to be addressed on your side and neighbors. Make sure the roofer runs up the side parapet walls far enough with the membrane. IF aesthetics are not an issue the membrane can run up flush to parapet top and then meta cap on top of parapet.

install a ledger board on the 5' brick wall at the back and span the roof joists 10' to rest on the stick frame wall of the addition? This would be done using the hangers you showed me earlier, is this right? Yes

Get back on the other question to guide you through the foundation/first floor part.

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Ok, the footer is starting to make sense to me. We will definitely be doing brick veneer on the 1st level, no questions there, the wife is demanding it. And the floor of the first level will be concrete slab. As you can see from the photo, there is already concrete there, we would like to pour more to bring the floor of the addition up to the same level as the current basement slab. From what I understand about local code, the stick framing needs to sit on at least 6" of masonry(cement block or a stem wall) above grade.

Just to recap, I will dig a hole 36"+8" deep (per local code) and 24" wide. I will hammer drill two holes into the current footer, 12" apart and in the center of the new footer. I will then add and tie in some vertical bar. Pour the concrete (3,500 PSI), making sure it is 8" thick and that it is nice and level. From there, I will build right up to grade using 10" (solid or hollow???) blocks. Is that right? Now, what do I do here? Again, I want brick veneer on a 2x4 wall. The 2x4 wall needs to be built on top of a masonry foundation at least 6" above grade. What size block do I use? How far up do you suggest I go? Also, once the foundation has been built, can I then pour an addition 2-3" of concrete to raise the slab floor up?


So, you'd recommend running the ceiling joists front to back, instead of side to side like the rest of the floor joists? Is that correct? In that case though, won't I end up with two ledger boards on the 5' wall, one right under the other? Is that OK structurally? I plan on doing this such that the new roof is at roughly the same elevation as the existing roof. In that case the existing parapets for the current roof should be fine. Yes, I will have the roofer run the roofing material up the side of the parapet and under the cap. That just leaves a new parapet on my neighbor's side. How do I actually frame/build that parapet? Structurally, is it part of the roof or part of the wall below? Can it be built out of lumber or only out of brick?

Thanks

When you dig the footer 24" wide by ? depth . 10" hollow block will be laid on the footer.

Some math needs to be done here to set the footer depth so after the 10" block is laid it works out for correct height to start the brick ledge. This may require burying some brick below grade. Also the 6" solid cap needs to work out for the top of that to be flush with finish concrete floor. When done the 1/2 inch anchor bolts will be stick out from the middle of the 6:" solid caps. This is where you will bolt the first plate down. Use plate insulation on 6" solid before first plate to keep out air.

Sill Plate Insulation | Carter Lumber (http://www.carterlumber.com/products/insulation/sillplategasket.aspx)
I'm going to stick on the foundation for now.
There are two ways to set up the conc floor in relation to plate and brick veneer. The base is 10" hollow block. On top of the you need a 4" brick ledge. ( Who ever lays that part out what for a screw up here. Standard brick needs 4 1/4 to 4 1/2" distance from a sheeted wall to lay the brick. The 1'2" if the basic 4" is for the Manson's finger room. On a reg house its not a worry. For you meeting an existing wall is critical to flush new brick veneer to existing veneer.

Back to the slab. 10" block with 4x6w solid cap laid on top of 10" hollow block flush to inside of block wall. That should be your wood plate bolt down. Use plate insulation against the inside of the 6" cap for a thermal brake to concrete floor. To ties the new concrete floor in drill 3/8" holes into the 6" solid cap ( after it sets up good ) Drill about 2 1/2" into the solid 2" down from the top. 3/8" or left over 1/2" rebar should be cut about 16" long which 2"+ goes in the block and 14" is hanging into the new concrete floor. This does two things. It pins the new crete to block and the 14"+ left over solves the problem if there is post settling after backfill on inside of block wall. Inside under crete should be 4" of "2b clean" crushed limestone to level up the inside for prep of new floor. The stone needs to be 4" down from the solid cap. Before you backfill the 10" wall parge the outside thats below grade. Let dry. Apply tar foundation coating over dry parge/Smooth stucco.

On the inside on the wall get 2" urethane foam board ( comes in 2'x8') Get the below grade foam board. Apply that on the inside of the wall starting flush from the stone down. Use liquid Nail.construction adhesive to glue it to the block then back fill. Below the 6" solid cap and flush to the rough in stone prep, Use some more 2" foam board about a 1' wide on all weather exposed perimeters. This is the best way to keep the cold from coming up through the conc slab. So the foam board is and sideways L shape. One part of the L is against the 10" block wall and the other is under new 4" conc slab. Remember to use over all of this a 6 mill plastic before pouring crete. I will stop here to see if you get this so far and then we can move on

This is great info. I want to make sure I have the footing/foundation correct, OK?

In order,

1)Footer - 24" W x 8" H
2)10" block - Right up to grade
3)6" Solid cap with bolts
4)Sill Plate Insulation
4)Sill Plate

OK, now some questions...

1) Is the above outline correct?
2) The wall is going to be built out of 2x4s, not 2x6s. Does that change the size of the blocks?
3) I can't seem to find a picture of a 6" solid cap. What are the dimensions?
4) Does the 6" solid cap allow me to get the required 6" foundation wall above grade?
5) How do I get the bolts into the 6" solid cap block?

I am breaking this up into 2 posts so I don't get confused.

With regard to the slab. If you look back at the picture I posted, you'll notice there is already a concrete slab in the location of the addition. I believe it is 4" thick. I am not planning on getting rid of that (unless you tell me so. I just want to pour an addition 3" of concrete on top of that to bring it up to the level of the current basement floor.

Footer - 24" W x 8" H... YES

2)10" block - Right up to grade .....YES

3)6" Solid cap with bolts... Yes

4)Sill Plate Insulation... After last block is laid solid plate block is laid.

4)Sill Plate... Second on liquid nails in the side of the

OK, now some questions...

2) The wall is going to be built out of 2x4s, not 2x6s. Does that change the size of the blocks?. No not the 10 which I'm sure the code would require since its 3 stories. I would use 10s no matter what. Personally I would stick to 2x6 (R) 19 insulation. What are the reasons for 2x4s? Which may not meet code (3 stories) Either way the second floor joist will be offset to be flush where you are stopping the brick. Or the brick there needs a row-lock course to terminate the diff jumping back to siding if stud wall from basement line up to next floor.



3) I can't seem to find a picture of a 6" solid cap. What are the dimensions? .......15 7/8" long 5 7/8"wide 3 7/8 high" In my area there is a notch in the block 3 7/8 side for anchor bolts to come up through from block below it. ( witch they never work out half of the time to line up)


4) Does the 6" solid cap allow me to get the required 6" foundation wall above grade?. You lay 6" hollow reg block on top of the 10" regs to adjust height(s) then the 6" solid cap block.


5) How do I get the bolts into the 6" solid cap block?. Bolts go past the 6" block as if they aren't there. I lay the 6" block so my anchor bolts are against the side of the solid and use the vertical mortar joints to get past the solid. You will need to cut the 6" cap in half to get the 1' less from corner.

Code for here is within 1' or less of a corner and every 6' to center. In your case of 5" would be 3 bolts in front and two on the short return. Also 1/2" anchor bolts come in many diff sizes check local codes for lengths down onto block wish in you case bare min would be 2 1/4" showing above 6" solid. The add 4" for the cap thickness. At least 6" into the block below the 6" cap. So 14"+ for anchor bolts.

Just saw the pic now in edit. The pic is good except the 6" block/or capp is laid on inside for brick sill out side. I thought upi neede 6" above grade for sill plate. If so then the last course of the 10" block needs to chang back to a 6" reg hollow. You end up burying some brick but thast grade. If you don't want to bury brick then lay a "soap" block on the 4" ledge.


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OK, I am switching this up now a bit... sorry!

What are your thoughts on a slab foundation in this application?

That's more or less what is laid out here to begin with. 10" block to 6" block + cap. 2x6 frame inside on cap. The only diff is lay block 4" below finish floor height. Form up for floor, Pour 4" crete and set anchor bolts in fresh crete. This is 'Slab" foundation. You can still lay the brick and plate on slab. Just to let you know theres not horizontal thermal break in floor. To do that lay a " soap" concrete block for the form. That block is 3 7/8" wide and high and 15 7/8" long. This will be the brick ledge. Apply 4" sill plate insul on side of that block for thermal break.

Adjust conc floor inside for a step up from outside grade. That covers for code of snow etc, OSB sheeted on new 2x6 wood wall. Brick veneer in front of that one story. Wall thickness changes for second floor. Here's where you could make the 5' façade flush to brick wall.

First floor brick wall exactly flush in height to double 2x6 top plate of first floor. Run the 2x12 floor joist the long way (10') and set on double plate but at the same time move them out a couple of inches over brick wall and flush to brick wall. Now second floor studs are flush to brick façade. Add the OSB over second floor studs and hang OSB to slip down over brick wall façade an 2"+. This protects that area from weather. hang Hardie a tad below OSB.

To do this layout, I would move back my foundation wall a couple of inches from the 5' part back. The new brick will be set back from the old a couple of inches. This way when you add the OSB and the Hardie siding for finish facade it will be set back from the existing brick veneer an 1" or so. This protects the side of the siding where it meets the old structure and it can be 90 degree angled flashed where OSB meets the old brick wall and makes a good water shed. You can tie the brick to old every 6 courses and the inside corner mortar joint is not as noticeable which helps break up the 8' vertical straight line.

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This sounds great and makes sense. That said, the only concern I have is that we are intending to leave that cement slab patio off the door on the second level. It is structurally solid and would be an absolute bear to remove. That kind of forces us to run a ledger board on the 10' wall and run the joists over the 5' span, no? That said, can't I still accomplish the same thing? Can the rim joist rest on the brick veneer? Or it is not structural at all?

Basically it is structural. You need to check with code and see if they require a structural OK letter from an engineer. The double/triple joist (5') could be pocket into the brick wall on one side and the other side load is carried over the brick/wall return which an interior double wall plate can carry that.

Old house such as yours usually use the inside brick are used for bearing of floor joist. The old brick have joist pockets. My city is very old and that's the common practice back then. So to prove a point the brick are structural period.

So triple up up short joist sandwich ply to get the 5 1'2 " width, pocket in one side ( existing brick wall. beam over to opposite wall over new double plate cantilever that to flush on the brick return.

Remember I'm a builder not a structural engineer. But I have been around a long time especially in what you are doing there. I'm sure the city needs prints. Always go to them and pick there brain as to whats is allowed by code. Hopefully they won't play the " game"

You need to have a rough drawing possibly. I usually take in my rough Auto Cad drawing in or quick hand drawning in on small jobs. If they require a full blown drawing then at least you have a heads up for architect and drawings revisions are to a min and saves you time and money on revised cost

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I am planning to use bolted ledger boards as opposed to cutting pockets in the brick. I think it will be easier for me to do.

Why is it necessary to double or triple the joists?

I only mentioned cutting pocket in the brick for the last joist at the end 5' wall that's facing the back yard

If you come back in on the brick wall a couple of inches for the above mentioned. Now you have room on that old wall for a beam/joist pocket to help carry the load for the last 5' joist to help bring it out flush to the new brick veneer. Build a beam out of the floor joist to go over and flush to the new brick 4 1/2" veneer. Added joist together and sandwich 3/4 ply or all framing joist to be wide enough to be a nailer for the ceiling below drywall (which you will need one). This will act as a beam to carry the second floor wall and its bearing on one side is 4" into a brick pocket of old and the other bearing side will rest on the return double wall plate from below. This will essentially carry the next two stories floor/wall loads.


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Hmm, I am not getting this at all. I am so sorry!

Im trying to draw and cut and paste to help out here so hang tight.

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Thanks! Looking forward to it.

Hi Stubits. Sorry for the delay.

I could build your addition blindfolded but you think I could figure out this lap top to transfer a drawing from word to this site.

Now I know why I have office people and my simple Auto Cad.

Anyhow think of the second floor 5' out side joist doubled up many times to make a load bearing beam. Now take that one end and pocket that into the old existing brick 4". The other end can run over the top of the 1st floor wood plate and flush to the outside newly laid brick wall on that corner. This will carry the next 2 floors load and give you the flushness you need to the 2 outside walls of new brick



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Ok, I totally get this now. Great explanation. So, as always, a couple of questions...

1) Why is this necessary? I don't doubt you at all, just want to understand why the "beam" is necessary as opposed to just a standard joist which would normally be sufficient.

2) How many joists should I "double up"?

3) Is it necessary to pocket it into the brick? Or can I just attach it to the ledger board like the rest of the joists?

You more less have an "L" shape wall you are adding. There isn't any ledger board on that opposite wall. Ledger on existing side and complete new wall opposite side. New joist go over that wall (10) side.

Because of a new brick veneer on the 5' front wall which address 4 1/2" to that front wall, plus 1/2" OSB behind new brick wall then Studs. The front and Side Wall is thicker than the second floor since you want to do new brick on first floor/ ground wall only and not the other floors..

The Joist/Beam is to help off set the beginning of the second floor and get far enough over the top of the stud plate and also the 4 1/2" brick wall to flush 2x12 joist to the outside of those " brick wall to flush 2x12 joist to the outside of those " shape wall.

On the 5' end wall you are going to need an added joist for a nailer for the ceiling below to hang drywall on the ceiling which can be added as part of the Joist beam.

Remember I suggested to offset ( going towards the house standing in yard looking at the back of the new addition as it were) the 5' part of foundation towards the house and back from the existing brick wall 3"+ for the new brick veneer to have a small inside corner where it Butts to old.

This will help and allow the Joist beam to be pocketed into the existing wall for load carry of the offset 2nd floor wall. The 3" shape wall.

On the 5' end wall you are going to need an added joist for a nailer for the ceiling below to hang drywall on the ceiling which can be added as part of the Joist beam.

Remember I suggested to offset ( going towards the house standing in yard looking at the back of the new addition as it were) the 5' part of foundation towards the house and back from the existing brick wall 3"

Now Just to throw you a big loop here is move the yard 5' end PAST the existing wall and now you have a brick return wall of '?" inches and A smaller Joist/beam in width will be needed

1) Why is this necessary? I don't doubt you at all, just want to understand why the "beam" is necessary as opposed to just a standard joist which would normally be sufficient. The beam is to carry the next two floor loads since its being offset to flush to first floor brick veneer. Part of the second floor load will be resting on the 1st floor brick veneer and since the joist beam is WIDE WALL ( brick veneer/ studs)

2) How many joists should I "double up"? Starting from the inside studs ( 1 1/2"+ old brick on existing will HIDE the new Joist/beam and protect it. This will also help break up the vertical mortar joint. And lastly it will be far enough back that when you slip the 2nd floor OSB over the new brick below and add the Hardie siding you will be at a finish reveal of around 1") brick veneer ( 4 1/2" )

3) Is it necessary to pocket it into the brick? Or can I just attach it to the ledger board like the rest of the joists? Hard to find hangers for a wide beam/joist not to mention a beam pocket into masonry is the best. Can't get better support than that.

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Wow, so like 7 or 8 joists all joined together?

Yep You can use Ply between to tweak the distance width. Kind of a partial micro lamb beam

And No you don't want to buy one of those here. Very expansive.

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Ok, this totally makes sense.

How much of an inside corner are we looking for with the offset? Are you suggesting setting the new 5' wall back 3" from the current wall?

Yes any further in and the offset from there will take more notch out of beam to address the vertical load shift.


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OK, great.

So, in this case, would the mason still attempt to work the new brick in with the old brick? Or will there just be an inside corner with a vertical seam?

I would use a good gaged brick walls ties every 8" and pop out the old brick wall every 16" inches or what works in that general spot for the brick courses. Reg brick usually works to the 6 or 7 on the brick spacing rule.

So just brake a out half brick on old wall and then use a full brick to lay in the pocket and the other half is in the new wall

The common ones are the corrugated ties. You can use a masonry nail to tie them in, but I like the short Tap Cons screws

TN 44B - WALL TIES FOR BRICK MASONRY (http://www.gobrick.com/BIA/technotes/t44b.htm)


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Ok, so I have been thinking about this project all weekend long, running through a lot of different variables and I have a couple of questions and some changes to my original thinking... I hope you're still monitoring this!

First, I am thinking it might be easier for the HVAC, plumbing and electrical to run the floor joists so that they span the 10' distance rather than the 5' difference. Do you see any problems with that? I also believe that that will allow me to cantilever the 5' exterior wall out over the brick veneer, right?

Now, on the first level (where there is currently a concrete landing), would it be possible to run a 2x12 ledger board from the 10' brick wall across the 5' span to rest on the opposite wall. Then, I'd run the joists off the ledger board using Simpson joist hangers, cantilevering the floor joists over the 5' exterior wall by a few inches to match up the siding to the brick. Will that work?

Thanks!

That's what I mentioned a while back. This also Completely solves the cantilever bearing on the front 5' wall. I was going to post back because of the mechanicals having a problem using the joist bay for HVAC. The 5 ' way. not to mention wiring. Add to that less brackets and frame time. If that brick wing wall is sound then that can be added to and Incorporated into. Again check codes. At this point I see no problems.


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Thanks for your patience with me, sorry I didn't listen better earlier. I will definitely go with the above approach.

OK, some more questions on the footings/foundation. So far as I can tell, there are really three parts to this. One is the poured footer itself, the second is the block foundation wall and third is raising the height of the cement floor.

So, can I run through this with you again?

STEP 1
First I will excavate so that I can pour a footing according to code, but let's assume 20" wide by 8" deep for the full perimiter of the addition. I will tie it into the current footing using rebar on both sides and will reinforce the footing with additional rebar. Also, I will include vertical rebar to tie the footer into the foundation wall, right?

Step 2
I will build the foundation wall using 10" cmu's, switching over eventually to 6" cmu's to provide a brick ledge. I will have J Bolts at the top to tie in the framing.

Step 3
This is where I still have questions. What is the best way to build up the current concrete slab. I believe it is likely 4" thick already and we need to pour just 3" more to bring it up to the current floor. Do I do this after I've laid the foundation walls? Do I need to tie the new slab into the old slab or can one float over the other? Am I better off just breaking up the old stuff?

Thanks!

1. 20" wide by 8" deep...

Code for here is 3' deep to get below frost line. The footer should be min 24" wide so you can step in the ditch and lay the block. Footer 8" thick with bar as far as I'm concerned is perfect and over code here. ( Its three stories) so for me bar is a given. To tie into existing walls use bar horizontally from middle of new 8" footer to adjacent walls.

2. I will build the foundation wall using 10" cmu's, switching over eventually to 6" cmu's to provide a brick ledge. I will have J Bolts at the top to tie in the framing...........

Perfect. Just remember you need a 4"high/thick cap block 6" wide for house plate. Before you back fill the new block walls. You need to parge it from finish grade down or the whole wall. Then use foundation coating after parge is fey and coat from finish grade down to footer. Now you can backfill new wall.

3. Do I need to tie the new slab into the old slab or can one float over the other? Am I better off just breaking up the old stuff? ..........

Yes I would for these reasons. To do a good job os break up the concrete. From finish floor down would be. 4" new concrete. 6 mil ploy vapor barrier/ 4" crushed 2B clean stone. Now remember my previous post on insulating the perimeter of the concrete floor under the concrete

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Excellent.

Given the size of this job, do you think it is OK for me to do the foundation work myself? If I follow the directions you've given, I should be OK, right? Or do you think I should hire this out?

Ok, couple of follow-up questions. Is the timing right? First I will pour the footer, next build the block wall and then pour the slab? Is there anyway to pour the slab and the footer at the same time? This way I could avoid having the ready mix truck come out for two tiny loads.

If I chose to not break up the current slab (not sure yet what I want to do), would you recommend tying it into the new slab somehow or just float the new slab on top?

That's a tuff question. I don't know your skill level. Check with city on codes get permit.

Dig out the ditch. Prep footer with rebar. To figure out your concrete a Yd of Crete is 46.656 cubic inches. To a yard.

Hear comes the tradesmen lingo. When you lay out the footer you need to check for square even though the house may not be. Looking from the back yard on right façade go back 4 or 6 feet and set a string line. Now with string in hand secured to old wall walk to left past 5' footer location. Get a helper to look at line and bring it close to the wall and just seeing light between old brick wall and line. This is called tailing out a wall. Drive in stake secure string to stake. Now measure 5' from that old brick corner and mark the 5' Now toy should have two stakes set. One is the front finish on the 5' faced and one is where the return wall to house alcove. To check things for square I'm going to teach you Pythagorean theorem. The magic numbers are 3, 4, 5. 6, 8. 10, To square anything use these numbers in either the first 3 groups or the second three groups. So lets say on a corner you can measure 3in one way 4in opposite way right angle. From there to the previous 3inch mark should be 5 inch across which is a perfect 45 degree angle. Use the 6 8 10 the same way. The beauty here is the addition is 5'x10' so lest use the 3 4 5 so now it 3 feet down inside wall mark that and you have the 5 pin from those two marks point to point should be 5 feet. A perfect 45 which mean a perfect 90 on the corner.

I would get a good Mason to lay the block and brick. Of all the trades masonry is almost never a DYI project, The foundation below HAS to be dead on. When you dig the footer leave extra room on the front of the footer so the Manson can stand in ditch to lay block, So 24" wide footer. 10" block can sit 4 to 6" "in from edge of footer. So out of 24" wide, 14" of footer is used up. This leaves the Manson 18 to 20" left to stand in the ditch and lay block.

Makes you kind of wish I was there to build it. Your not alone I'm new to this site and I'm been VERY impressed with the other tradesmen here. And at times I think boy could all of us build a top notch structure together Im 34 years in the field and Im not impressed easily.

To find a good Mason I just thought of a good way. Ask him does he know 3, 4, 5, or 6, 8, 10, If those numbers means nothing to him than I would NOT consider him a Full Mason. Or ask him of he know Pythagagoras and his theorem? I learned this in 1974 at a high school Vo tec learning to be a mason. I posted site on him. I never looked it until now, just knew his name and theorem.

Pythagorean theorem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pythagorean_theorem)

Sorry I got carried away, but here is a good trade secret and soon to be lost. Only a few on the site would know this. And who does, its defiantly a good sign of a true builder.

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So, thinking this over, what do you think of doing a slab with a turned down footing with a monolithic pour? Is that possible in this application?

No not for 3 stories. On top. You should have a 2' wide footer. Specks may say 18" wide. The problem here is being able to hold the outside form and the ditch below is two wide to center the pour wall part. So think of an 8" or 6" wide wall. The 6" block wall for the plate may be changed to an 8" block wall and then the block on footer then would change to 12" as opposed to 10" The code officer will let you know. Or the architect. For all of the forming problems here for as little as a block run you have stay with block wall to bring it out if the ground.

For as often As I put up a foundation I rarely go all pour. I only do it for a frost footer for a patio here. frost is 18" here.


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I guess I am just looking at having to have 2 separate, very small loads of ready mix delivered and was wondering if there is a way to avoid that?

Sure mix the footer by hand and deliver the floor load. The footer is about a half a yd. Get some Portland cement concrete sand and 2B clean stone delivered. I always mix it ourselves under a yd or so. The deliver here is over $100.00, plus sur charges etc. Environmental etc.

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Makes sense.

So I met the other day with a mason in the area and discussed the project with him. I just got his quote back. Can you let me know what you think?

The scope of work includes:
1) Footer
2) Foundation
3) Brick veneer (using brick salvaged from demo on the home)
4) New slab (demo the old and poor a new)
5) Convert one window in brick wall into a doorway
6) Cut new doorway in brick wall

The price is $4,600.

I know that prices differ from area to area and of course I plan on getting additional quotes, but does this seem reasonable? High? I have heard good things about the company and they are actually located just 2 blocks away from my home. He suggested doing things exactly as you have suggested.

Thanks!

That's a ***** of a good price. Even though it 5x10 it takes more time per output than a bigger Job. I call it Job rhythm. Break the rhythm and keep changing gears cost burn time

Get two more prices and the average will appear. Don't just look at price. A good tradesmen is always Worth it.


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Absolutely not just about price, but these guys are known to be good and they are VERY local, which counts in an area like DC.

I haven't asked him yet, but what are your thoughts on my offering to do some of the grunt work? Like breaking up the slab, digging the holes for the footer, etc? Do you think I'd save enough to make it worth it? Would you as a pro ever go for something like that? Or is it just foolish?

I usually don't because I end up babysitting the customer and never gets paid for that. Ask him and see how much diff.

Great. Thanks so much.

I am planning to spend a good chunk of the weekend working on the project and of course I have a few more questions. Truly, thank you so much for your help. I appreciate your willingness to help me reason things out, and help me figure out where I should hire out.

So, I will absolutely hire out all the masonry work, it doesn't make sense not to. I am planning to do the framing myself as we discussed. 1) What do you recommend as exterior sheathing (what material? What thickness? Etc?) 2) What do you recommend for the subfloor(what material? What thickness? Etc?)

What are your thoughts on foam board insulation applied on top of the exterior sheathing? Obviously insulation is a good thing. Any thoughts?

Ok, now for the roof. Thank you for walking me through how to frame a flat roof and the parapets, I think I've got that all figured out. I've been looking at different roofing options and it seems like the best option for me is EPDM. Given it is such a small area, I think I am will to take this on myself. It seems like is an easy to work with material. Any tips or hints on working with it?

Also, do you suggest doing the roof or the siding first? Which works best?

Thanks!

As I recall you have 2x12 joist in main house. I mentioned 2x8s at the 5' layout and mentioned for you to go the 10' for solving the cantilever problem on the brick to siding. Since the original joist are 2x12s I would use the same since you are now going the 10' way. This makes a nice joist bay for mechanicals and drainage if that's the case here. Its not much more since its only 5' wide. OC for joist is 16". Use 3/4 tongue and grove for the sub floor. I use adhesive caulk to keep the squeaks out from joist to ply sub floor. Also install joist bridges between joist bays. The x look. You can buy them they are metal.

So from inside out. Please use 2x6s for framing. then 1/2" OSB. House wrap over that. I would consider spray foam for the insulation for the walls.

Compare Spray Foam | McGlaughlin Spray Foam Insulation (http://www.spray-foam.com/compare.html)

It cost more but in these times saving Heat is a good move and the diff will come back quicker.

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Thanks.

Yes, I am absolutely planning on using 2x12 for the joists.

On the subfloor, you apply the adhesive caulk (liquid nails?) to the joists, then lay down the subfloor and screw it down, right?

I was going to install joist bridges, didn't know you could buy them pre-made. Thanks!

As for framing the walls, what do you think if I frame the basement level in 2x6s and then the second and third levels in 2x4? Or, what about just framing the upper level in 2x4?

I am thinking I will do ceiling joists on the upper level (so I can have a flat ceiling) and then roof rafters above. I will use 2x12s for the roof, right? How about for the ceiling joists, can I just do 2x6?

Any idea what the cost difference is for spray foam? Is that something I can DIY?

Any experience with EPDM or membrane roofing?

Posting twice so it easier to go back to.

ROOFING 2x10 Min rafters. The 2x10s are for the sole purpose of getting enough room for (R) value. (check your Geo) Just remember the insul can't touch the roof ply and a min 2" breath room is required. There are styro 'baffles" that will accomplish that and as the pitch increases it won't be nesscarry. Not sure of pitch here. 2x12s may be a have to for breathing. Bottom of roof "3rd floor ceiling can be 2x6s 16 OC. to carry drywall.

Rafters 16" OC. Normally a roof is 24" OC. But yours is flat and 10 rafter and Heavy snow/ice load can happen. Its 5/8" exterior sheeting with the roof clips per rafter bay. The 30lb felt on that...

Now for the rubber part. The smallest roll widths here is 10'. I know that sounds perfect for you but its not that way. You have to think of the parapet walls and that extra.

Over the felt you will get a 1/2 4x8 board at the rubber roof supply house. It's a fiberboard. This is screwed down with metal caps that are about 3" round. Use their screws to do this. After that you need to lay out the rubber. Here I use a lot of 060 gage. I'm not there to measure up the rubber part but heres the application. Lay out the rubber dry and leave plenty enough room to go UP the parapet walls. 8" if you have that. There is a 'termination bar" that used to go over rubber on the parapet walls. They are Tap Con in. Leave a bit over that "bar" and cut excess rubber off after the tap con is done. this will be caulked there with SPM seal which is at the rubber supply house. You are going to over Lapp the rubber roof because of the 10' factor is going to be flipped. So count on the roof as 5' wide plus the walls it goes up. Leave enough to go over the edge of the 5' side and the other partial side. After the rubber is on install the drip edge. Over that you will either cut from left over rubber a 6' wide pieces. This will be laid from the top of the drip edge back. It needs to be glued down with "Lapp cement" glue. Its a contact cement. Sap a chalk line 6" away from drip edge and coat the cement there let it get barely tacky. Have ready the 6" piece that also has the same cement on it. Now install. The seam there is caulked with SPM seal. A nice bead.

You will have a different cement for the rubber to the felt board. They best way to put down the rubber is half at a time. Lay it all out fold back half. Use roller to ally glue. Now do the half you folded back Let dry to almost no tack. Bend roll that folded half over glued felt board half. Do other side same way. If you have to overlap its 4" on the overlap. All overlaps require SPM seal "caulk"

Always run rubber roof Under the drip edge, Not just to the edge of the roof. This insures that any water will have to run over or under the drip edge if the 6" rubber lap fails at the SPM seal there. I let extra and cut off after drip edge is put on.

Signed 21 Boat

If I Helped To Answer Your Question Please Rate My Answer

Spray foam is tricky. Hiring a company is usually 3 times that in fiberglass. You can Do it on your own. First check with local fire/building codes on approved foam. There are many diff types. Here is a site for the DYI if you want to give it a go. I would practice with the spray "stuff" before doing the walls. A foam wall is so insulated and 'tight" blocks sound well.

YouTube - Tiger Foam. Spray Foam Insulation | basement & crawl space. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNe3KUmXcWk&feature=related)

Tiger Foam | Spray Foam Insulation Kits (http://www.tigerfoam.com/)

Signed 21 Boat

If I Helped To Answer Your Question Please Rate My Answer

Ok, great.

So, I will construct the 3rd floor ceiling using 2x6 and the construct the roof using either 2x10 or 2x12. Just to make sure I understand, the roof joists will terminate on the rim joist of the 3rd floor ceiling, right?

I have read a lot of instruction guides on the EPDM roof, it actually seems pretty straight forward. Thanks for all the tips!

So, for framing the walls, what do you think if I frame the basement level in 2x6s and then the second and third levels in 2x4? Or, what about just framing the upper level in 2x4? I need to maximize every inch in the bathrooms!

Also, the 3rd floor bathroom will have an antique cast iron clawfoot tub which weighs close to 300 lbs. without water. So I need to sister the 2x12 joists or should they be sufficient?

[QUOTE=;] the roof joists will terminate on the rim joist of the 3rd floor ceiling, right?/QUOTE]
Personally I think of 2x4s as interior walls only. If you have to use 2x4s and code allows it I would defiantly use foam insul there.

(TUB) I would maybe sister up 2 joist with a 2x8 for dead load of tub. Its only 10- for clear span. Normally that's not done but I have seen some sunken joist over may years of dead weight..

NOTE: when you lay out the floor joist for the bathroom think of the toilet and tub drainage. To tweak a joist can save a major problem later. The toilet is the bigge. The "closet flange" for the toilet needs to be 12' from FINISH wall to center of toilet bolts. It seems to never fail we hit dead on a joist or on the side of a joist. They have Offset flanges to help get around that bu if a joist can be moved for layout since its only five feet wide not a biggie. You can chase out from another side of the 16 oc to accommodate.

When laying out the roof and ceiling joist they will be offset from each other by 1 1/2" and nailed to the sides of each other.

Thanks.

I under stand the roof issue now, much better.

Can I just get the double joist hangers and sister all of the tub level joists with 2x12?

21 Boat-

Ok, so I've run into a tiny problem, hoping your years of experience can help!

I spoke with my neighbor yesterday about the project. He thinks it is a great idea, but he expressed some concern about my demo'ing the brick privacy wall that separates his back concrete landing from mine. The wall is built right on the property line, 4" of it are on his property and 4" of it are mine. The real problem is his now deceased mother had the wall built and so there is some sentimental value for him and his sister.

We really like our neighbor and I understand the sentimental thing, both my parents are deceased. That said, we need to do something because it doesn't work the way it is now. I think legally we'd be fine demo'ing it, but that is an awfully crappy move, not to mention I will need access to his property during the construction phase, to put up side and the like, so I am not sure it would serve me well.

Also, you'll notice from the photo I posted earlier that it has a bit of an odd shape and is just 6' high by about 7' in length. This will NOT be a load bearing wall, because as we've discussed, the joists, floor and roof will run the 10' span.

So, a couple of ideas...

1) It is a double wythe brick wall. It looks to have been constructed soundly, can I just build on top of it? My only concern is that it isn't tied into the vertical house wall in anyway except with a bit of mortar. Is this even possible? If so, there are certainly some issues, for sure, but is it even remotely possible. This method, however I think would actually reduce my costs, right?

2) I suppose I could have my mason just reuse the brick and do that portion of the wall in a brick veneer. This method would certainly increase my costs, but not sure by how much. I plan on giving the mason a call to see. I am not sure if this is an acceptable solution for the neighbor, and depending on the added cost, might not be for me. (I am already planning on paying $600 to trim down his iron landing that encroaches on my property).

So, what do you think? Do you have a preference one way or the other? Any suggestions I haven't hit on yet?

I don't want this to look incredibly awkward, although truth be told, we won't really ever see this portion of it, just him. Also, I don't want to do anything that would weaken or threaten the structure, allow greater opportunity for water infiltration, etc. Ultimately our architect will design this, but I'd like to have some ideas. He overheard me talking to contractors and started asking questions, but other than the wall issue, he thinks it's great.

Thanks!

I am already planning on paying $600 to trim down his iron landing that encroaches on my property).The wall is built right on the property line, 4" of it are on his property and 4" of it are mine.

Sorry to get back so late. If the wall is equal on both sides then that's a problem. If you build to the exact line then there will be 4" of brick in front of your wall. If you build on top of the existing wall then you will be over the line 4"

I say get rid of that wall and flush it back to the alcove. Then add your addition. Brick veneer that side if it a big issue. At this point the wall is 4" into your line. I realize its a politically think and tread lightly.

Explain that you need to tear down your side of the wall and the other side want set well so it makes sense to re do that wall and remove It to get a nice look on his side. Explain the 4" problem and the logic to remove it and make the job looked planned and has symmetry and not odd in material change on one side.

21 Boat-

Somewhere on here I saw you recommend Chicago Power Tools and Harbor Freight. I am going to need to stock up on some tools for this project including a miter saw (thinking about a 12" sliding compound miter saw), a right angle drill as well as some air nailers.

Obviously I am not a pro, but will be using the tools for a bit more than making flower boxes.

The prices seem great, would Chicago Power tools be a good way for me to go?

Yes I been very happy with Chicago Power tool to price ratio. Harbor freight is great for small compressors and air line quick couples etc. I use them a lot for shipping tools to the Caribbean when I work down there. They have sales constantly and at my store they will offer the sale price and a any of there coupons for general percent off. I made a killing on the price for there largest electric concrete jack hammer and the hand drill attached concrete vibrator. Also I brought down an mud size SDS drill combo chipping hammer which works great for masonry demo and drilling for Tap Cons. Its not as hefty as our Bosch demo hammer we use in the states but that's only a demo hammer. Here some tools I bought over time there and recently.
- Harbor Freight Tools - Quality Tools at the Lowest Prices (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=96698)
- Harbor Freight Tools - Quality Tools at the Lowest Prices (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=94734)
This is a drill hammer combo which I shipped to P.R. this year and it works well. This would help in brick pockets and clean up the demo of dividing wall where it meets the houses.
- Harbor Freight Tools - Quality Tools at the Lowest Prices (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=97743)

This is a tool to break up old floor but you should rent it. I use this in P.R. job sites
- Harbor Freight Tools - Quality Tools at the Lowest Prices (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=96035)

I never had a Bad power tool form harbor freight. They have some junk there but all in all they have good tools for the buck.

Oh, so you own the 12" sliding compound miter saw? I was thinking of buying that. So, you'd recommend?

And the air compressor, is that sufficient for framing?

So, you do a lot of work in PR and the Carib? In my real job I study LatAm and the Caribbean for the government. Love it down there.

Yes it was on sale about a in Feb. After I recommended it to a poster. The dual tank is sufficient for one air nailer. I have many diff compressors. From tow behinds to the dual tanks with the wheel to small dual tanks Like I posted for you to pancake compressors. I mostly use Pass loads for framing re haps and there finisher nailer. I bought form Harbor last summer the roofing nailer I was surprised how well it worked, I have the old Sencos framer and roofing nailer's but they are heavy and clunky to the modern versions.

I have been working in construction on and off for 20+ years. The last project was a 3 story bed and breakfast. The common sense in construction down here is almost non existence. Also the locals here work from 7am to 1pm or so with a lunch brake. I was flown down just to hang commercial doors buy my customer. The workers here are about $90.00 a day and it was still cost effective for mu customer to fly me and some of my guys to do the thinking jobs,

I could give you an earful on P.R. government.

That's where I'm at now typing this. I winter in P.R. and work there.

What do you think of this as a nailer?

- Harbor Freight Tools - Quality Tools at the Lowest Prices (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=98733)

The tank goes to 115 psi and the gun max is 120 psi. I never set a framer that high. Just cross check the volume which in think is fine here without actually looking as the compressor to double check, Of course both are at the store.

Can I use the same nailer to install the exterior sheathing? Roof sheathing? Subfloor? Siding?

Can I use the same nailer to install the exterior sheathing? roof sheathing? subfloor? siding?

Yes for all except for the siding. I'm not familiar with hardi siding and that will be more than likely hand nailed.

You will use different nails for the ext sheeting and use those same nails for subfloor.

Actually, I would definitely use a nailer for siding: there's less chance of cracking than nailing manually, and if you set the pressure and depth properly, you get a perfect nail every time.

Don't use a regular nailer. There are special siding nailers that use a thinner shank nail. I bought the Bostitch version and it works well. Galvanized nails wouild be standard, but its worth looking around on the internet for stainless nails as they will definitely avoid future rust stains.

Thanks travel. For the help here... maybe strubits can get a cheap nailer and go your way. I'm all for power tools if its cost effective.
Maybe check Ebay for a used one
Found some used ones..
http://www.amazon.com/b?ie=UTF8&node=552708

Thanks to you both.

So, for the Hardie siding, looks like the suggested nails are 2", so I am wondering if I can get away with this nailer for everything, siding, framing, etc. Of course I'll need a finish nailer as well.

- Harbor Freight Tools - Quality Tools at the Lowest Prices (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=98751)

Also, do I need a 12" sliding miter saw or would a 10" be fine?

You'll have to check the nail size it can accept, and also the nails made for it. I have not been through the hardie site, but they may also have recommendations on max nail size.

My siding nailer accepts nails with around a 0.09" shank. You may find you can only get bigger ones for the gun you've linked to. Also be careful on how good the galvanizing is of the nails you buy. I would not skimp on the galvanizing quality for siding nails (or try to find stainless ones as I suggested)

Maybe have a look on e-bay or craiglist? I have the Bostitch N66C and it is a good little tool. In Canada, there is a 7 year warranty - not sure about the US. But if the warranty is transferable, it takes the worry out of buying a used tool.

Thanks RTW... it is a very small project, so having to buy multiple nailers would be less than efficient. Hopefully I can find one tool that can do both functions.

21 boat, do you think I need a 12" sliding miter saw or would a 10" be fine?

10 would be fine. The slider is basically for wider trim and or crown molding. I cut wider trim on older homes but mostly the 10" comes out of the truck. We may times use the 10" to gang cut joist and I love it for studs. In our re hap we shave ( re cut stud )at times for uneven floor plates and the miter is used as a hand held circ saw makes a nice shaved square cut.

I am thinking it would be great to have a slider for joists/studs.

Something like this is good? - Harbor Freight Tools - Quality Tools at the Lowest Prices (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=98199)

That's fine

Ok, so a couple of additional questions.

First, going back to the original question on roofing. What if I went with something other than a flat roof, like a shed roof design or something. I think I have sufficient room for something like that. If so, is it easier to frame? More durable? Better looking? Any suggestions?

Also, a really unrelated masonry question. We have a series of concrete steps in the front of our house. They seem to be in pretty good condition except for one step which has a significant lateral crack. It is obvious that the previous owner parged the crack before painting it, so before we moved in it was unnoticeable, but has become progressively worse, much worse even than the photo. Now, whole chunks of the parge material are coming off.

The mason we had give us a bid on the foundation work for the addition project suggested cutting out that section of stair entirely and replacing them. Is this the best way to go? Is there a way I can do this project myself? Any thoughts?

Also, I really want to cover the steps in some form of stone like the photo is of my next door neighbor. How hard is this to do? Is this a project I can take on myself? Any thoughts?

Thanks!

Hi stubits. The mason is right. I would cut out all three steps. I see a classic mistake in that pour. The split in the middle of that first step is not real common in that area on steps. That's due to improper expansion between the steps and the walk. A grove there doesn't qualify for and expansion joint. It was probably poured all at once to save a day for a second pour.

Cut back from the top of the steps on the walk a min of 12". There you will need a felt expansion joint applied to old walk edge. The drill through that in two places center and use 3/8 rebar pins Through the expansion joints. This will allow expansion and also vertical flats of walk and step to remain a flat plain. A knuckle joint.

Any thoughts on the flagstone?

I personally love flagstone for looks, laid tons of it, but here's the draw backs.

1. It should be sealed every couple of years because of the cleavage in the stone an flake and lift if freezing water gets in the tiny fissures.

2. Water freezing on it makes it hard to see if its black ice or just wet.

3. Ice sticks to it well and hard to shovel off (bumpy) and there's a tendency to salt it more then a reg walk. Your neighbors seems to have salt stains on ithe risers or it's a bad smeary mortar job.

4. Flagstone is laid in bigger size then brick. Therefore the expansion and contraction is more in size and the mortar joints develop more hairline cracks along the edge where mortar meets stone.

The best natural very low maintenance walk is a brick walk set in crushed stone beds and dry laid. Don't get me wrong were all the above beats just plain concrete hands down. The easiest walk to maintain other then dry laid brick is concrete. IE, this is where the "stamped" concrete was born and took off but expensive. It is comparable to brick and flagstone for the simple reason you need top pour a walk to lay a walk if brick or flag set in mortar.

Getting back to the roof. What is the thoughts there on changing to a shed roof as opposed to a flat roof which is a low shed roof.

I don't know what you will gain other then height in the roof rafters for insulation.

I'm a big believer in rubber roofs as opposed to shingle. Is is a venting thought here. Can you shed some more light in your reasons here?

Thanks!

On the steps:

I think I will have the mason fix the crack, glad to know he is planning on doing it the right way. Seems like a bit more work than I'd like to take on. As for making them pretty. I love brick, but my wife isn't such a fan. How hard would it be for me to do the flagstone myself? Is it something I can do? Is the dry laid brick even an option here, given that the cement already exists? Any thoughts?

As for the roof. I was just thinking that the design wise a sloped roof might be interesting. Also, I thought working with shingles might be easier than the rubber roof material.

Any thoughts?

As for the roof. I was just thinking that the design wise a sloped roof might be interesting. Also, I thought working with shingles might be easier than the rubber roof material

If the 'Crack is just filled with mortar that won't hold long. I'm assuming it's a re pour of the steps.

Is the roof more about you being more comfortable laying shingles then rubber and that's a big part of the sale here on an Interesting roof?

The roof it up there 3 stories on a row home. Not to many people look up at roofs in the city areas. Been on enough of them working and people never really look up including owners. Just checking on the reasons.

Rubber out last shingles. If anything I would slate the roof to keep in with the age in homes and that's a 75 year plus roof if you are going to pitch it as a shed roof.

Yes, he will do just as you said, cut out the steps, install an expansion joint and then re pour.

The roof is really two fold. On one hand, I just want to make this as attractive and interesting an addition as possible. I was even contemplating a metal roof. On the other hand, I've done shingles before, never done a flat roof, so yes, definitely more comfortable with shingles.

So, if I want to do the flagstone, or even brick, how tough is it? What are the steps? Is it doable?

Yes, he will do just as you said, cut out the steps, install an expansion joint and then re pour.

Perfect. Don't forget the trick of the two 3/8 pins through the expansion joint to walk.

Shingles is best on a 4/12 pitch and down to 3/12. I have used blind nailing cement for the 3/12 pitch. Tin roof as far as I'm concerned is trouble down the road. The screws with the rubber seals fail in time and pinhole leaks, Commercial tin or the old standing seam roof is very good and not cheap.

Rubber is actually fairly easy, been installing for a long time it's a hurry and weight roof. The hardest part is getting the rubber up there.

It just a 1/2 felt board screwed down with the large cap plates.

Bucket of rubber glue to glue rubber to felt.

Termination bar up side walls. 6" perimeter glue down strip over the drip edge to cover.
SPM seal on that edge and termination strips. Surface silicone a roof boot for plumbing venting etc.

Ok, OK, so the flat roof doesn't sound all that hard. I'll give it a shot.

So, on the steps. How difficult would it be to do either flagstone or brick set in mortar? Is that something I can do myself?

Thanks!

It sounds like your skill level is good so this may be possible for you.
When you get to the flat roof part post back for any guidance you may need.

My first concern is the "toping" that was applied over the old concrete. If that fails and in time most due, then the laid brick or mortar bed will fail too.

I can guide you through the laying of brick or flagstone and the proper mortar mixes. You don't want to but the premix crap. It's a terrible mortar to work with.

Excellent. Thanks! I am sure the flat roof will go fine.

I agree, I'd want to get rid of the paint on the concrete steps/landing as well. What is the best way to do that? Sandblast it? Powerwash? Grinder? Chemicals? What works best?

Ok, I have two big questions, hope you can help.

1) Please see the picture below. As we discussed previously, I am going to be keeping the concrete landing out back, so I will need a ledger board of some sort (I believe) to attach the floor joists to for the addition, right? The picture below just sort of shows that I am thinking. So, the question is, how do I attach the ledger board. Do I attach a joist hanger on the brick walls to the left and to the right? Is that enough support? Do I bolt it into the concrete landing with epoxy bolts? I am assuming I cannot just attach the joist hangers to the landing, right? What do you suggest?

2) So, we've decided to just build up from that brick privacy wall on the left that I share with my neighbor. Our architect and a friend who is a structural engineer both think it is fine. We only "own" 4" of the wall, but the city says and our neighbor agrees, that we not only have a right, but a responsibility to flash over his 4", so that's not a problem. So, I assume I will need to epoxy bolt, or at least tapcon the bottom plate of the wall to the brick, right and then just build up. Here's the complicated part. I want to build up with a 2x6 wall, which means that approximately 2" of the bottom plate will overhang brick wall, right? Can I furr out the brick wall with 2x4 to a)support the bottom plate fully and b) give me some room for insulation? Will this work? Any other suggestions?

Thanks!

I would pressure wash with 3.200 Psi or better.

The best pressure washer is a steam/ hot water pressure washer. I'm not into the paint strippers simply that it causes to may environmental issue out side. Also NO sand blasting. Sand as Silica in it and is very dangerous to people and lungs. 'Black Beauty" is all I use for health/environmental reasons and is totally inert.

Do you think its really worth saving that conc pad? I'm thinking about running mechanicals from floor to floor not to mention sewer drops.

Along with that you are going to have a floor with concrete and wood which can become problematic for a floor finish at the end because of moisture in Crete and application of said floor

Unfortunately we don't have an option. Legally the neighbor gets to keep the brick wall as it is a party wall (means we can build on it/off it, but can't demo without his permission) which is on top of the slab, so yes, unfortunately we need to keep it and the brick wall.

The slab can still be removed even if the brick is on top of it. When done the left over slab under that brick becomes a concrete brick. Not that difficult to do that.

Would you just use a concrete saw to cut it away? If not, then how? I hadn't really thought of doing that the SE and the architect both suggested just leaving it.

Now, if I chose not to get rid of the slab, how would you do this?

Remove steps. Build scaffold in front of the slab o get just above the concrete. Plank it out there. Now Tap Con a temporary ledger board a couple of inches above the concrete in the alcove and double it up so there is a 3" ledger there.

From there you can run a scaffolding plank over to the built scaffolding with the decked out area. Use drywall screws to temporally secure the scaffold plank to the temp ledger boards.

Under the Crete get some 2x4s or 2x6 and build 3 quick supports for the crete about 16 inches apart to support the Crete before you start the demo. This will allow you to demo 16 inches of Crete at a time and the remaining deck is still supported, the next 16" support will hold the Crete in cantilever fashion.

Rent a concrete saw with a 14" diamond blade to go with it. Also pick up a 14" steel blade to cut the rebar that should be in that Crete

Start at the neighbors side and saw cut until you see sparks or feel a difference in the cutting which is hard at times. Diamond will go through steel but not recommended for the blade. The chip out to expose the rebar. Switch blades cut steel out and then back to diamond to finish Crete cut.

Use a chipping hammer and start on the neighbors side ( where cut is ) and all along that wall. At any given time the Crete will only overhang 16" form grid/section to section. Now I rigged you up ABOVE the pad for good safety and all the demo falls away from you.

You will need scaffolding to rent for the brick work or siding so that's not a cost for pad demo.

You can re use the temp 2bys bracing for the addition.

The only chewed up cost is the Demo hammer ans saw/blade wear. I use a Bosch 11305 and trying to find the equivalent for the Demo. My 11305 is one step down from the Brute demo hammer

Bosch 11305 Parts List and Diagram - (0611305034) : eReplacementparts.com (http://www.ereplacementparts.com/bosch-11305-0611305034-demolition-hammer-parts-c-128_1391_3152.html)

This is the closest to that size and I think its it cousin in weight and size.
http://www.toolbarn.com/product/bosch/11335K/

Again I choose to demo it and make a CLEAN re hap. One day to set up and demo and all.

A yard of concrete is 4,000 lbs at 46,656 cubic inches to a yard. A cubic foot is 1,726 cubic inches. A cubic foot of Crete weighs approx 150 lbs. Just thought I throw this in so you can figure out the weight supports there on bracing.

21 Boat-

I hope you're still around. I think we talked about this previously, but would appreciate your take on a standing seam roof. My wife really likes the look. Something like this... Standing Seam | Image II | Best Buy Metals (http://www.bestbuymetals.com/standing-seam-metal-roofing.html)

The install actually doesn't seem all that difficult. Any thoughts?

Are you leaning to the standing seam because its more of an install thought.


Damage will result if uninstalled panels or trim are allowed to remain wet in storage. Be sure to store material that will not be installed immediately in
A little unnerving for a roof material


Warrantied products Painted standing seam panels come with a 35-45-year coil manufacturer's
Warranty, and unpainted Galvalume comes with a 20-25-year warranty

Are you or anyone really going to see this roof?

So far I haven't replaced a rubber roof since they cam out in the late 70s or so. I did replace metal roofs though and after a while they need coated. If you have parrot pit walls metal a to flash. It needs some detailing,

The other thing is look at the pics they show. Metal roofs need Snow Guards. There are none in the pictures. Also there are no gutters showing in the pics. The reason there are no gutters in the pics is because gutters have to have snow guards or the gutters get ripped off from sliding snow/ice. I install metal roofs also and slate. They all need snow guards.

Thanks! No, nothing to do with install. It is all aesthetics. After looking at the architectural drawings with the flat roof, my wife doesn't think it looks right, so she wants a sloped roof. The architect says we can likely support up to a 3/12 or even 4/12 slope. These metal roofs are very popular/typical here, so it goes well with the neighborhood.

I would imagine if go with a metal/sloped roof, we would NOT do a parapet wall, right?

Process wise though, you sheath the roof, install tar paper, install the roof and flashing and then the gutter and you're good to go, right?

Not quite need snpw guards to protect a killing and the gutter

Its
Sheeting
Tarpaper
Dripedge
Counter flashing
Metal roof
Flashing
Caulk
Snowguards
Gutter

Snow guard is a rubber membrance that goes along the gutter area, right?

Excllent. Thanks!

A metal roof isn't a bad option, is it?

If the metal roof really can't be seen then its not a good choice, Metal is no contest for rubber roof.

Consider using floor Trusses as for your roof. You can run pluming through them with ease, as no holes need to be drilled in them

Here's a link to a picture.
http://www.smokycove.com/log_cabin_construction_photos/floor_truss.jpg

Also, I would frame the roof perfectly flat and add wedge shaped shims to the top side of the joists for your slope. This way your ceiling inside will be nice and flat. And you don't have to do any notching of anything.

inthecalm

This post is over a year old. Job is probably done by now.

Chuck