I go to middle school 7th grade and we just started evolution I I think that is wrong I am a christian and do not believe in all that mumbo jumbo I think it is God changing these animals to adapt to the environment so what should I do? Also we are not allowed to be taught religon in school why not evolution I think that is something parents should discuss things like that at home because I know everybody who has to listen to that mumbo jumbo does not believe in it I couldn't care less about it they should use that time for better things that are true. How is evolution any different than religion on whether they should be taught in the classroom and what is this world coming to? Next thing you know they will take out the word God in the pledge of allegiance and did anyone hear about the police officer getting fired for using the word "God" when he prayed that violates freedom of speech and is extremely wrong that goes against everything the bill of rights stands for you could not get more wronger than that that is like saying you hat the U.S.A those people who fired that police officer.:mad:

So have your parents discuss this with the teacher and/or the school board.

What I had my kids do, was answer it, "According to the text book, this is the answer...
Teacher hated it, but we threatened them with a discrimination law suit and they backed down.

But actually relgion as comparison relgion can be taught in public school and is taught in many. Also christian groups have rights to have meetings after school and the such.

Evolution is not considered a relgiion but a idea of science.

So you merely pass the course and move on. Please under stand relgious freedom is being taken away little by little every year.

The reason why evolution is taught in school is because it is good science, and so as long as your school has science classes it will include evolution, just as it includes topics like physics and geology. Evolution is a founding principal in biology - it's hard to overstate just how significant it is to modern science and understanding how the world works. As such if the school didn't teach you about evolution your education would be horribly short-changed. My suggestion is find a way in your head to accommodate both good science and your religious faith - they need not necessarily be in conflict.

My suggestion is that you learn evolution well and in detail. The more you know about something, the better you can argue against it and defend your own beliefs.

The U.S. Constitution provides for the separation between church and state. If schools allow Christian beliefs to be taught, then they will be required to allow Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Shinto, and all other religions' beliefs to be taught too.

From a Christian forum there are some really lame answers to this students dilemma. Teaching or rather force feeding one belief down a students throat and not allowing for differing opinions is just plane wrong. And sadly many many school districts are doing exactly that. Whether I like it or not, WG might have the most sane comments here so far. Understand what they are telling you enough to pass the course, but do not believe for one second that it is right if you do not believe so. At the right opportunity you can use the Bible to explain to them your disbelief of the theory. And really it is only a theory like a lot of others that science has put out in an attempt to explain what they cannot explain without the Bible.
As an alternative, you might talk to your parents and have them write a formal complaint to the school board that under religious beliefs they cannot let their child be taught this lie. And see where that goes. Just another thought.

younglady13,
Teaching evolution the right way is something special.
I went to a religious school that taught it correctly as the professor pointed out all of the short coming, holes, just plain assumptions in that THEORY.
But most schools do not teach it that way.
You have had some food advice your should follow here and if you do take the course it does not mean that you have to believe it,
Just do you best to pass the subject and move on in life, praising and following God.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

I go to middle school 7th grade and we just started evolution I I think that is wrong I am a christian and do not believe in all that mumbo jumbo I think it is God changing these animals to adapt to the environment so what should I do?

What should you do? You should learn the ways by which God induces these animals to adapt to their environment. I suspect that if you stated that algebra was "mumbo jumbo" that you didn't want to learn, you would not get so much support here.

The basic idea of evolution is that species change over time and that all organisms are related to each another. Different species can be closely related, like coyotes and wolves, or they can be more distantly related, like polar bears and panda bears. But even the most distantly related species share some genes--for example, humans and yeasts. That's how we know we are all related, like one big family.

There are several ways that evolutionary change can occur. The most well known and probably the most important mechanism for evolution is "natural selection."

Natural selection is very simple. Individuals vary and some reproduce better than others. Just as everyone you know is unique, so plants and animals are unique. The ones that are better adapted to their particular environment tend to have more offspring (babies). That's it. If you can learn this, you are ahead of 75 percent of people in your class. Keep the big picture in mind.

Science and religion are two different things. No need to try to combine them.

asking.
That is a very good answer.
However I do combine my religion with science and I find that in many cases they are compatible.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

I think we agree.

Younglady can learn evolution now and decide later how much of it conflicts with her religious beliefs and if that's a problem or not. There are lots of ways to combine science and religion. And if, for her they aren't compatible, that's her prerogative, but at least she will know what she is rejecting.

asking,
Yes, that is very true.
Fred

You are great, Fred.
asking

That is nice to ask.. But you need to understand that, Evolution do not take God out of the picture.. In the becaning, God had greated earth, and said: let be light, because darkness was aleady there.
God is the Greator.. And remember that the Evolution could be a part of which God himself greated for us.

samdarwen,
Yes I do believe that evolution is a part f God's creative plan.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

The key words in your question are "just started". You "just started", but already have a strong opinion about the subject. How is that possible? It is very hard to believe in something you have never met before or you have never experienced, seen, or felt. Just be open-minded and trust your teacher's experience, and you will be rewarded. As far as evolution goes, you do not have to believe in the evolution theory, as well as in any other scientific theory. Theories are not invented for people to believe in them. Any theory is a tool. Think of relativity theory in physics or number theory in math. You either find a scientific theory (like any other tool) useful for your work or try to improve or replace it with a better theory (tool). That's it. Just study well and get good grades in this class. For your information: even the Big Boss from Vatican has recently approved the theory of evolution. So, there is no way out of this but study.

harum,
That's very good advice.
Fred

That is very true Harum. There are many religious people that accept evolution, in fact most young-world creationists have accepted evolution but interpret it in their own way, which is fine.
Take these people's advice about learning about the subject and making your own decisions; don't go into something with assumptions, especially when you know nothing about it.

That is very true Harum. There are many religious people that accept evolution, in fact most young-world creationists have accepted evolution but interpret it in their own way, which is fine.

I have never heard of or met a YEC who accepts evolution. Most have examined the evidence and found that the evidence leans against evolution.

Where did you hear that the majority of YECs accept evolution?

It is good advice to try to learn and get good grades in any school subject whether you believe it or not.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

And learning to listen well without judging is a useful skill.

This is exactly what I think is wrong with the education system today. Critical thinking is suppressed. I believe that is is no less than a crime to tell students not to judge what they are being taught by checking out things for themselves.

Teaching kids not to judge what they are taught is why so many are sucked into gangs and cults, and are unable to take a stand on a matter of principle. After all, whatever they are taught is what the majority believes and that is what they must believe, right?

It is frightening to think what an immense amount of damage such an approach will do to our children and society as a whole moving forward. We have one good example of where it leads in a powerful European country 70 some year ago.

Tj3,
I agree that for schools and teachers to attempt to take judgment away from students is a very harmful thing in many ways.
Students should be encouraged to think for themselves and reach reasonable conclusions.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

The theory of evolution is a well established and elegant theory developed from an extensive body of data. It is a convenient and fruitful paradigm and a reference frame for the field of biology. Before one starts critically thinking about the subject, one has to know well beyond the basics. Why don't all those people also attack the big bang theory? Is it because it is beyond their education level? Why is evolution theory taken so personally by all those people?

The theory of evolution is a well established and elegant theory developed from an extensive body of data. It is a convenient and fruitful paradigm and a reference frame for the field of biology. Before one starts critically thinking about the subject, one has to know well beyond the basics.

I have a degree in science, I am an engineer, a senior member of the IEEE, and have studied evolution and creation most of my life. I used to be an evolutionist, but having studied it, the facts forced me to reject evolution as not being a viable theory.

But I note that you did not answer the question. You claimed that the majority of YECs accept evolution. What is the source for this claim?

Well, how do you study creationism? :) That's beyond my understanding. Do you find more evidence that whoever created the planet first made dinosaurs, then killed them, then created humans? I have no idea what YEC is. You don't have to answer my question though, just being sarcastic. You have a degree and can afford critical thinking, but 12 year olds cannot (yet).

harum,
I believe in both creation and some forms of evolution.
God created life and all else that is seen and unseen.
The parts of evolution I do not believe in are those which conflict with that belief.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

harum,
I believe in both creation and some forms of evolution.
God created life and all else that is seen and unseen.
The parts of evolution I do not believe in are those which conflict with that belief.

To say that God created humans means pretty much nothing. You just substitute one word with another not explaining anything. The evolution theory goes beyond this. It introduces new concepts and actually attempts to trace the history of life, from ecosystems down to molecular level. Again, I am not sure believing in something is an argument in favor or against it.

Harum.
Of that is what you believe, that what I believe is nothing, that is your right to do so.
I, however, do not believe that what you believe is nothing.
You are a valuable human being to me and I believe also to God.
So what you think and believe is of interest even though I may not agree with some of that.
Part of what you believe about evolution I also believe.
I believe evolution was a big part of God's planned design for the universe to become what we see of it today.
I am very comfortable with that belief. It explains much to me.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Of that is what you believe, that what I believe is nothing, that is your right to do so.
I, however, do not believe that what you believe is nothing.
You are a valuable human being to me and I believe also to God.
So what you think and believe is of interest even though I may not agree with some of that.
Part of what you believe about evolution I also believe.

:) I am saying that you can stay comfortable, and believe in anything you choose, and call everyone a valuable person. But I believe (I use "believe" here, because I know but cannot prove that this is true) as soon as you really want to actually discover new things you should study scientific theories summarizing (very well or not so well) knowledge collected before you and, what is as important, their language. You have to get your hands dirty and sometimes make yourself a fool going the wrong way. But your beliefs that everyone is a valuable person will not get you anywhere and will not bring you comfort in this case. It is very funny (if not sad and inconsistent) that the person a few posts up who believes in "creation" advises on critical thinking. What?. What? We have to redefine the word "critical" then. Bottom line for me here: You are free not to accept scientific theories, but never use your religious beliefs as an argument against those theories. Keep the flies and the burgers away from each other.

Elelmhorst disagrees:

I am sure that we do not need a quick evolution 101 course here so you'd be wise to preach elsewhere.

Actually, I was just giving her some basic information so she could pass the course with a minimum of effort, so I was not preaching. I was operating on the assumption that she was stuck in the class. She can get a good grade or a bad one; I was trying to help her get something better than a D or an F.

And, by the way, the information in my post was factually correct or opinion, so not worthy of your "disagree."

Well, how do you study creationism? :) That's beyond my understanding.

Before you criticize it, it might be a good idea to study it. I have studied both evolution and creationism.


Do you find more evidence that whoever created the planet first made dinosaurs, then killed them, then created humans?

There is a great deal of evidence that dinosaurs and humans have co-existed.


I have no idea what YEC is.

Young Earth (World) Creationist.


You don't have to answer my question though, just being sarcastic. You have a degree and can afford critical thinking, but 12 year olds cannot (yet).

Many cannot because they have been taught in the manner that asking suggests, to just take what they are told without any thought ro challenge.

I remain interested in the source for your claim that YECs accept evolution.

There is a great deal of evidence that dinosaurs and humans have co-existed.




I can't tell if you are serious and sincere here or just making fun of me in a twisted way. I don't know what your motivation is when you say that dinosaurs coexisted with humans. Is your sticking with "creationism" due to your desire to describe natural history in a better way? Or you prefer "creationism" because you just want to stay with the old beliefs of our forefathers (which, no irony here, is touching and understandable) after a few patches here and there at the expense of modern textbooks? By the way, back to dinosaurs and humans, have they co-existed or been co-created? This is the question :). I haven't heard anything about co-existence (you are not talking about "Jurassic Park", are you?), but co-existence is not good enough for us, isn't it? Did they find undigested human bones inside a T.rex skeleton or inside its petrified pile of feces?

harum,
Believe it or not Tj3 is serious. He does believe that men and dinosaurs did co-exist together at one time about 6000 years ago.
He is a firm believer in the young earth hypotheses.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

I can't tell if you are serious and sincere here or just making fun of me in a twisted way. I don't know what your motivation is when you say that dinosaurs coexisted with humans. Is your sticking with "creationism" due to your desire to describe natural history in a better way? Or you prefer "creationism" because you just want to stay with the old beliefs of our forefathers (which, no irony here, is touching and understandable) after a few patches here and there at the expense of modern textbooks?

I am a Christian and I am a man of science. I have studied the topic of creation a great deal over the years, and it was that study that caused me to turn from my belief in evolution to accept what the evidence was really pointing to.

Though some folk may tell you otherwise, there are thousands of scientists, both Christian and non-Christian who, on the basis of the evidence, have rejected revolution in favour of following the evidence wherever it may lead.

I am still waiting for the source of your claim that the majority of YECs accept macro-evolution

Tj3,
That really makes me wonder who taught you science.
Also where is all of this marvelous evidence you claim exists that man and dionsaurs co-existed 6000 or so years ago.
Did you get that from your science professor?
Fred

I am still waiting for the source of your claim that the majority of YECs accept macro-evolution

Harum didn't make this claim. Xxariesxx did:


here are many religious people that accept evolution, in fact most young-world creationists have accepted evolution but interpret it in their own way, which is fine.

Tj3,
That really makes me wonder who taught you science.

One of the finest, top rated universities in the country. And you?


Also where is all of this marvelous evidence you claim exists that man and dionsaurs co-existed 6000 or so years ago.
Did you get that from your science professor?
Fred

I did get it from scientists. How about your evidence for macro-evolution - I keep asking for that and have not seen it yet.

I see some folks don't takje well to having their "beliefs" threatened with the facts. One person gave me a reddy and said"

"You threaten my beliefs."

Yes, I may in fact do so. The truth often has a way of doing that.

Tj3,
I have rated no one.
I have yet to figure out how to do that.
I have no rate button on people's posts.
I do not give you anything on macro evolution because I do not believe in it.
I believe only in some forms of it as I have mentioned several times.
By the way in case you are wondering you have never threatened my beliefs or faith.
You don't have the ability to do that.
Fred

Tj3,
I have rated no one.

Don't get paranoid, Fred, I never said that you did.


I do not give you anything on macro evolution because I do not believe in it.
I believe only in some forms of it as I have mentioned several times.

What forms? Where is the proof of those forms?

Tj3,
That evolution is going on right now.
Certain species have been adopting ti various world changes,
Stars are dying and others are being formed, etc.
I believe I have mentioned this to you before.
Fred

Tj3,
That evolution is going on right now.
Certain species have been adopting ti various world changes,

That is not macro-evolution, but micro-evolution.

Tj3,
So??
That is what I believe in.
You have been told that before.
Fred

Tj3,
So???????
That is what I believe in.
You have been told that before.
Fred

Then why do you argue with me if you agree?

Tj3,
Forget it Tom.

Tj3,
Forget it Tom.

Okay, as you wish. If you don't wish to clarify your position, that is okay.

Okay, as you wish. If you don't wish to clarify your position, that is okay.
You are so good at not reading posts carefully.

You are so good at not reading posts carefully.

Ho hum - now it starts again.

Ho hum - now it starts again.

Ho hum--because you never stop replaying the same tired antics.

Ho hum--because you never stop replaying the same tired antics.

Perhaps if you would start interacting seriously, we could have a good discussion. But abuse and hijacking is not likely to produce such a result.

Akoue.
Yup. You're right again.
Fred

Perhaps if you would start interacting seriously, we could have a good discussion. But abuse and hijacking is not likely to produce such a result.
Perhaps if you would actually READ what people say in response to you, as they DO answer your questions and either you skip over, misread, or ignore their replies. Arcura never once said he agreed with you, so where did you get that from? We have tried many times to have discussions with you, but at some point, you fall back on Tomisms.

Perhaps if you would actually READ what people say in response to you, as they DO answer your questions and either you skip over, misread, or ignore their replies.

Maybe if you would take the time to read carefully rather than make false accusations, then maybe you would not post such comments.


Arcura never once said he agreed with you, so where did you get that from?

He said that he agreed with one type of evolution, and that is the same that I accept. Read again.


We have tried many times to have discussions with you, but at some point, you fall back on Tomisms.

Maybe if you would actually listen, you would not need to fall back on false accusations. Give it a try.

Maybe if you would actually listen, you would not need to fall back on false accusations. Give it a try.
There you go again! And anyone who has "discussed" with you agrees with me.

And your Christian love is now flinging "reddies" my way! Slash and burn!

There you go again! And anyone who has "discussed" with you agrees with me.

And I guess that when people who agree with me post you must close you eyes and go "LA LA LA LA LA".

Why do you feel it necessary to attack those who disagree?


And your Christian love is now flinging "reddies" my way! Slash and burn!

You should know that false accusations against others is wrong.

Have you posted anything on this thread yet without some demeaning personal comment in it? Give it a try. It won't kill you.

And I guess that when people who agree with me post you must close you eyes and go "LA LA LA LA LA".

Why do you feel it necessary to attack those who disagree?



You should know that false accusations against others is wrong.

Have you posted anything on this thread yet without some demeaning personal comment in it? Give it a try. It won't kill you.
I've been more than nice to you on many other threads. I've interacted with you since askme.com. Somehow you end up accusing and disrepecting everyone who doesn't agree with you, and amazingly I agree with you more often than not re Christianity.

I've been more than nice to you on many other threads.

On very rare occasions. Why don't you make it a habit. That would be nice.


I've interacted with you since askme.com. Somehow you end up accusing and disrepecting everyone who doesn't agree with you, and amazingly I agree with you more often than not re Christianity.

Actually, I have not disrespected anyone. If you remember, there was a Roman Catholic on askme.com who made that as a public accusation, and I offered a public apology to the board iof she could find a single time where I had disrespected anyone. She asked for help from others on the board and at the end of a week, she tendered her public apology to me.

Again, why not just try dropping the personal comments and let's just discuss the topic - how about it? Can you bring yourself to do that?

On very rare occassions.
You don't know all the names I have been on the sites where you have been.

You don't know all the names I have been on the sites where you have been.

It does not matter. If you are saying that you have behaved better under other names, then that only means that you could behave like that here.

Don't tell me - show me.

It does not matter. If you are saying that you have behaved better under other names, then that only means that you could behave like that here.

Don't tell me - show me.
Only if you drop the Tomisms. Fair is fair.

Please look back at my post #4. Certain you can agree with that. Even 450donn agreed with me.

Actually, I have not disrespected anyone. If you remember, there was a Roman Catholic on askme.com who made that as a public accusation, and I offered a public apology to the board iof she could find a single time where I had disrespected anyone. She asked for help from others on the board and at the end of a week, she tendered her public apology to me.

We could always play that game here if you like.

Wondergirl,
Tom will never give up his Tomisms.
He love to claim people are attacking him or making false accusation when they are NOT doing so..
That's been his style on many boards over the years.
Either it is a game his is playing or it appears that he is very insecure.
Maybe I'm wrong, Mabe there is another reason why he make such charges about things that have not been done.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

My own, opinion on this thread, is that it's turned into a mudslinging contest that's really veered off from addressing what would appear to be mostly an opinion and sort of a question by the original poster where the thread is now going nowhere. My vote would be to close this thread.

Thanks!

My own, personal opinion on this thread, is that it's turned into a mudslinging contest that's really veered off from addressing what would appear to be mostly an opinion and sort of a question by the original poster where the thread is now going nowhere. My vote would be to close this thread.

Thanks!
I apologize, and hope it stays open. I've just lost a beloved cat and am taking it out on Tom, I guess.

I'm so sorry about your cat, Wondergirl! I know what that feels like!

Thanks!

One of the finest, top rated universities in the country. And you?

I did get it from scientists.

From which biologist did you take a course in evolution?
And did this person say that dinosaurs and humans existed contemporaneously?

Wondergirl,
So sorry to hear about your kitty. It is hard to lose someone you love.
asking

>Thread Closed<
Especially as the OP hasn't given any further input on the matter.