I am the landlord in OK. We moved out of the house and had a few remaining items in the garage. Honestly, due to the holidays (it was just before Thanksgiving), then Christmas, we just didn't get the remaining items out. I tried to email the tenant about another issue before Thanksgiving and got no response. I emailed the tenant a second time just before the new year and finally heard back. They had been "out of town for 2 wks and were very busy". The garage is about 600+ SF and according to my calculations (I'm an architect), we used approximately 22 SF of the garage. When we removed the items in January, I took pictures. The location of these items was in a corner & along one wall out of the way (and some go with the house - paint & trim). Both cars fit without incident and their bikes & a home gym also occupied the garage without any problem. But, this created a rift in the tenant/landlord relationship AFTER I was asking her when she was going to pay for furniture items she was to purchase from us.

She now has a list of complaints to go along with the above: Ceiling fan, pilot light on fireplace, washer & dishwasher.

1. Ceiling fan in kid's bedroom - never worked. Light works, but fan has never worked. We said we would look at doing something with it in the spring. When the tenant brought it up again, we said we would come & remove the fan (may have a short it in - fan not hooked to electrical) & replace with light we had in there before the we tried to install the fan. Ultimately, she wanted to leave the fan up. But, now is denying that.

2. Pilot light on fireplace - when we removed items in garage, we also lit the pilot on the fireplace for them. It is self-lighting with a button, but we said we would only do this once. She claims the house is cold and does not hold heat (it has 2 zoned HVAC units). She now denies we lit the pilot and says she is without heat!?

3. Washer - it was holding water before we moved out. We scheduled maintenance on it. They wanted to meet repair man. They weren't there the first time he came & rescheduled. They met him at another time, but lied about it saying he never came. Then, again after I was asking her to set up payment for furniture, she starts claiming the washer smells. We scheduled another maintenance trip where we met with the repair man. He found change in the pump & removed it. Then, he ran the rinse cycle and water drained. She is denying the washer is fixed (although it always worked).

4. The dishwasher was making a noise. It works, but there was a noise. Again, the same repair man looked at it & found glass in it, removed it & ran an entire cycle and it no longer made the noise. She is denying the dishwasher is fixed (although it also always worked).

AFTER we were there for the repairs, she tried to file burglary charges on us and assault charges on me (for sticking my finger at her nose although she told police I touched her face). I have email that says the other from her. But, for whatever reason, she has been completely vindictive. They did not pay for the furniture they had for 2 months, so we took it (all except the home gym - too hard to transport). She then tried to claim to police that we had been there other times when we never gave notice. Total lies.

Now, the tenant has given their 30 day notice for the following reasons:
a. We breached the contract for failure to supply heat (pilot on fireplace)
b. We made unlawful entry
c. We did not keep the house in a fit & habitable condition; Maintain in good and safe working order and condition all electrical, plumbing, heating
d. Failure of landlord to deliver possession of dwelling unit to tenant

She is now trying to block us from having access to show the house to potential tenants. I have told her it is in her best interest to help us help her break her lease so that she is no longer obligated to it. But, I have a feeling that her 30 day notice letter along with all the denials of what we have done, she is going to try to sue us for the above & collect damages.

We did make the mistake of using that 22 SF and I surely wish I had just went over & got that out of there but I want to know IF she has a case at all? And what we can do to remedy this? I was thinking that we could pay rent on the 22 SF for 60 days based on the cost/SF of the house/month and giving this as a credit in her itemized statement for the return of the security deposit?? Is that logical?

Any advice??

They wanted to meet repair man. They weren't there the first time he came & rescheduled saying he never came. I have email that says the other from her
I feel bad for you especially because I'm a landlord. My BASIC laws here is, unless you had in the lease stating that the property can be shown after a 30 day notice is given in writing on said property you have to wait until she surrenders it over at the end of that 30 day notice. Legally it is her property and a Landlord can be considered trespassing if not given permission to enter said property. Obviously this is negated for emergency services that may put said property in jeopardy. The best defense is your service man records.He is considered and expert in his field and a non party in a suit which sounds like it may happen. He is the smoking gun as far as improper usage of the washer etc. He will be your burden of proof to cover your "a" "b" "c" on the writ you received. So in short the bottom line is take off the 22sf in calc. from the deposit. Don't forget to add the interest of the security deposit. If you want to avoid this down the road call the renters association and get a book on landlord tenants rights and responsibility book. There may even be a workshop you can go to and they give you the book. Worked for me. IT also helps when you address it to the tenant and can state the basic laws of your state
The 22 SF is a moot point at this level. As,you mentioned it can be remedied by sqf deduction pro rated. The 22sf really has nothing to do with the latter. These tenants were professionals on how to get over on paying for furniture and things. Ether that or they really are NUTS. I won't write it all out here but click on my 21 boat and it should help you for the next renter on pre documenting the state and condition of the property is in at the time when you have a renter ready to sign papers after the written check list you provided on the premises Which would have been real applicable here.

Signed 21 Boat

If I Helped To Answer Your Question Please Rate My Answer

Any advice????Hello O:

Sure:

(1) I'd wait till they're gone before you try to show the house. They're not going to help you rent it.

(2) Before you rent next time, rent the movie "Pacific Palisades".

(3) Get a better application.

excon

Pacific Palisades? I've seen it several times and why I didn't punch her in the face when she called us "nasty people", "liars", thieves", "lazy" and so on. She also said the house is "garbage" which is a BIG button for me since I designed the house & had it built 5 years ago (garbage? seriously?) I'm a nonviolent person and have never had an altercation where I was even considering that but she was pushing my buttons big time especially standing in the study with my custom made desk telling me she wasn't going to pay for it WHILE all her stuff was on it & she had already been using it for 2 months. The same goes for the BB goal, the Home Gym & the Elliptical machine that were supposed to be paid for & never saw a dime. I'm fortunately that we got them to pay upfront for the dining table, bar stools & air hockey table.

As for showing the home, our lease states "upon the stated 30 day notice by tenant to vacate the property, that the tenant must allow the property to be shown to those who might want to lease the property at the end of the 30 day period. The showing of the property can be at the convenience of the tenant and the landlord, but the tenant must make the property available and presentable during normal hours."

Also, The Oklahoma Landlord and Tenant Acts states "tenant shall not unreasonably withhold consent to the landlord, his agents and employees, to enter into the dwelling unit in order to inspect the premises, make necessary or agreed repairs, decorations, alterations or improvements, supply necessary or agreed services or exhibit the dwelling unit to prospective or actual purchasers, mortgagee, tenants, workmen or contractors. " It also says "Except in case of emergency or unless it is impracticable to do so, the landlord shall give the tenant at least one (1) day's notice of his intent to enter and may enter only at reasonable times. "

So, doesn't this cover this problem of us showing the house??? I'm giving them more then 24 hr notice of showing the house and already re-arranged the schedule for their "company" last night. I have been fair with them, but she is unreasonable.

Also, the The Oklahoma Landlord and Tenant Acts states "the landlord shall return the balance of the security deposit without interest to the tenant within thirty (30) days after the termination of tenancy, delivery of possession and written demand by the tenant. "

We are not required to return deposits with interest.

The tenants are obligated to the lease UNTIL I sign a new contract with someone else because they are breaking the lease. So it is in their best interest to allow us to show the house and I have conveyed that to them. Are you still advising that I wait?

I don't know if these people are pro's or crazy, but I now realize that I believe the woman lied about her name & many other things before they moved in. I think she used her "husband's" name (I don't believe they are married) and it is not her name. So, she may have been hiding some history.

I do have a great application that is like a mortgage application - everything is on it. We just failed in checking everything we could. Live & learn.

21boat, I will check out your checklist on pre-documentation. Any more thoughts?

Also, my husband & I do intend to have the appliance repair man back out between this tenant & next to verify everything is in working order. We will take down the fan & replace with a light so there is no more issue about that. My husband also wants to have an HVAC man come out & service the units AND verify that everything is in good working order (since the tenant claims they are without heat). So, we are planning a few things of pre-documentation already but hopefully will have everything in order for the next tenant. I also intend to re-work out lease agreement to make sure this is not a problem next time.

As for showing the home, our lease states "upon the stated 30 day notice by tenant to vacate the property, that the tenant must allo.....
Hello again, O:

I didn't say you don't have the RIGHT to show it.. I said they're not going to HELP you rent it.

I PROMISE you, IF they let you AND your prospective tenant in, the house will be a MESS, and they will badmouth you to your prospect NO END.

THAT'S what I meant.

You don't need to explain landlord/tenant law to me. I think it's a foregone conclusion that you'll wind up in court with these people.

excon

And praise the Lord - the tenant emailed me the same day she tried to file assault charges on me stating that I "became aggressive by sticking your finger at my nose and started to yell and scream shut up"

So, I would say she's crazy, not a pro because I was able to forward this & other rants to the detective to show I didn't touch her face which was the claim she made to police. I did tell her to shut up and I did point my finger at her while she was yelling and pointing her finger back. I have learned a valuable lesson because I didn't realize she was baiting me to "lose it".

unless you had in the lease stating that the property can be shown after a 30 day notice is given in writing on said property you have to wait until she surrenders it over at the end of that 30 day notice. Legally it is her property and a Landlord can be considered trespassing if not given permission to enter said property.

I disagree with that. Most state laws (and obvious OK laws as shown by the OP) allow a landlord to show the property when the lease is terminating. Standard leases also include that provision.

It sounds like you are in the right. But you will have to go to court to enforce those rights. If you can prove what you have said, you will win in court.

I do suggest that you hire an independent to do a walk through before they turn over the keys. And that you have that person checkout the complaints she has made.

Hello again, O:

I didn't say you don't have the RIGHT to show it.. I said they're not gonna HELP you rent it.

I PROMISE you, IF they let you AND your prospective tenant in, the house will be a MESS, and they will badmouth you to your prospect NO END.

THAT'S what I meant.

You don't need to explain landlord/tenant law to me. I think it's a foregone conclusion that you'll wind up in court with these people.

excon


You are right & I know that. And I do fear they will be at the door keeping us from entering. And if we try to come in anyway, they will likely be saying all kinds of hateful stuff to the prospective tenant.

My problem is that my husband and I rented the house in the first place because we were having financial trouble. We were behind on our mortgage & were fearing foreclosure. We worked out a deal with our bank to get us back on track & rented the house. We cannot afford our rent payment & mortgage payment (yes, we are renters too but our landlord/tenant relationship here is great). So, we are somewhat backed into a corner with these people. We need to have someone in the house asap after these people leave. I also need time to do the appropriate background checks, etc. so that we find the right people for the house. They should be out by the 21st of Feb. but I hate to wait until then to start showing it.

I also have 2 appointments set up for tomorrow and Saturday. I was hoping to say as nicely as possible that we have had trouble with our tenant and we want a peaceful ending but they may not allow it. And to let the house speak for itself (and it will because everything is custom designed). And my husband has a digital recording device he was going to wear so if they start something or call police, we have proof of what they are doing. I was going to take the emails sent to them (and her replies) with us so if the tenants try to lie and say we gave no notice, I would have the information for police on hand.

I know it is a risk to show the house when they are there. But, if either of these people seeing it don't take it, I can always still show it when the renters are gone AND I may also have provided more documentation about their antics in the process. Don't you think??

But you will have to go to court to enforce those rights. If you can prove what you have said, you will win in court.

I do suggest that you hire an independent to do a walk thru before they turn over the keys. And that you have that person checkout the complaints she has made.

I spoke with an attorney who said they would be gone before an injuction could be enforced so it would be pointless.

Hiring an independent is a good idea. I already have someone in mind! Thanks for that advice too.

Helo again, O:

I don't see anywhere that YOU are evicting them. I see that you're HOPING they'll be gone by X date, but you, apparently, have NOTHING to ENFORCE their departure.. I would NOT leave MY house to their GOOD WILL.

Look. If you can rent it sooner and recoup your losses, go for it... But, speaking as a tenant, the first hint of trouble between a tenant and his landlord would be enough to cause me to look elsewhere. Plus, you're not going to be able to give your new tenant a solid move in date. Again, I promise you that you're going to have damage to repair after they're gone.

I'm on your side. I just want you to be realistic.

excon

Helo again, O:

I don't see anywhere that YOU are evicting them. I see that you're HOPING they'll be gone by X date, but you, apparently, have NOTHING to ENFORCE their departure.. I would NOT leave MY house to their GOOD WILL.

Look. If you can rent it sooner and recoup your losses, go for it... But, speaking as a tenant, the first hint of trouble between a tenant and his landlord would be enough to cause me to look elsewhere. Plus, you're not going to be able to give your new tenant a solid move in date. Again, I promise you that you're going to have damage to repair after they're gone.

I'm on your side. I just want you to be realistic.

excon

Good point! What is your solution then?

They gave a 30 day notice dated Jan 21 at the top and hand written date of Jan 22 next to their signatures. I sent an email with the prorated rent for both dates (Feb. 20 or 21) and gave them the option to be out either day and told them that the amount of the rent would let me know when they are leaving.

Now, if they try to use their security deposit AS rent (she already ask for it within HER 30 day notice and I said not possible & stated the law) or if they do not pay one of the 2 amounts, I will start eviction proceedings after the 5th (and will warn them that I will do so as it is in the lease), so at least I know by the time they should be out, I would also have an eviction.

If they pay the pro-rated rent and don't leave (I really hadn't thought of that) and I sign another lease with another tenant, their lease ends on the start of the new lease (due to their notice & the law), so would it mean I would THEN have to start eviction and the new tenant couldn't move in??

Also, I do have pictures of the house before they moved in (when we lived there) so if there is damage, I at least have evidence of the difference before they moved in. Yes, you are probably right. I certainly hope they have the good sense just to move on, but I doubt it.

Hmmm... I don't like that at all.

Excon,

I did wonder why they gave their notice at that time because it puts them in a situation of finding a place to move in at the end of February. They would have to find something vacant then. Otherwise, I would think something wouldn't be available until the first of March. So, I will consider what you have said.

Hello again, O:

I can't believe you saw Pacific Palisades, and yet you rent WITHOUT knowing the rules... You wouldn't play poker without knowing the rules would you? I don't know. Maybe you would.

I don't know WHEN the lease starts. It SHOULD start on the first and end the last day of the month. I'll bet it DOES. Therefore, there ISN'T any pro-rated rent. Their 30 day notice becomes effective at the beginning of the new rental period - NOT the day THEY wrote it or dated it or submitted it..

I don't know the story, and I'm not really interested in it. WHATEVER they have to say, I can't believe a judge is going to buy it. THAT is where this cockamamie story ought to be presented. In order for THAT to happen, you need to EVICT them per your state law. You have AMPLE grounds.

While you're at it, sue them for the stuff they bought from you but didn't pay for. You can file it all in one suit.

Maybe they'll be out before the hearing happens, and maybe not. If not, then you've got some TEETH to use.

excon

Hello again, O:

I can't believe you saw Pacific Palisades, and yet you rent WITHOUT knowing the rules... You wouldn't play poker without knowing the rules would you? I dunno. Maybe you would.

I don't know WHEN the lease starts. It SHOULD start on the first and end the last day of the month. I'll bet it DOES. Therefore, there ISN'T any pro-rated rent. Their 30 day notice becomes effective at the beginning of the new rental period - NOT the day THEY wrote it or dated it or submitted it..

I don't know the story, and I'm not really interested in it. WHATEVER they have to say, I can't believe a judge is going to buy it. THAT is where this cockamamie story ought to be presented. In order for THAT to happen, you need to EVICT them per your state law. You have AMPLE grounds.

While you're at it, sue them for the stuff they bought from you but didn't pay for. You can file it all in one suit.

Maybe they'll be out before the hearing happens, and maybe not. If not, then you've got some TEETH to use.

excon

You are right and I've learned my lesson the hard way. I agree with you about the rent & notice but unless they state other intentions, I am hoping they will be gone by the 21st and will accept prorated rent for that time. Is that wrong?

What are my grounds for eviction? Please give me the grounds so I'm sure to go about this the right way.

As for what they didn't pay for, we removed all the items already except the home gym. And we think we have a potential buyer to get this on Friday.

I spoke with an attorney who said they would be gone before an injuction could be enforced so it would be pointless.


No you misunderstand me. These people are responsible for the rent until you have a new tenant in place. But they are not going to hand over that money to you. You are going to have to sue them to get it. I'm not talking about an injunction to allow you to show but a suit to recover. You probably have a security deposit that may cover some of it, but not all. There is also, the distinct possibility that they will leave with extensive damage in spite. These are all things you need to prepare for.

If you do try to show the house while they are there, leave the prospective tenants in the car, until you have gotten inside. You don't want them being a party to whatever unpleasentness the renters display.

And your husband shouldn't conceal any recording device unless your state law allows it.

Hello again, O:

We didn't talk about rent either, but I can't believe people like this would pay their rent on time every month, and keep the place in proper order. I can't believe they didn't make changes contrary to the lease... I can't believe they've fulfilled EVERY little paragraph of your lease. I just don't believe it.

Look, think like a lawyer.. As a matter of fact, they're claiming that the house is "un-inhabitable". Ok, if you didn't make it that way, then THEY did.

They say you entered illegally. You say they refused entry. I don't know.

excon

Hello again, O:

We didn't talk about rent either, but I can't believe people like this would pay their rent on time every month, and keep the place in proper order. I can't believe they didn't make changes contrary to the lease.... I can't believe they've fulfilled EVERY little paragraph of your lease. I just don't believe it.

Look, think like a lawyer.. As a matter of fact, they're claiming that the house is "un-inhabitable". Ok, if you didn't make it that way, then THEY did.

They say you entered illegally. You say they refused entry. I dunno.

excon

Actually, they have paid on time & kept the house in order (that I could see). It was almost too clean - like no one really lived there (a little bare). But, they moved from a very small place to over double the square footage.

Our lease gives them a $50 discount if they pay the 1st, so they have. Sunday is the 1st and we will know what is going to happen then (if we are paid or not).

I will look into the lease and see where they have violated it. They are refusing entry to us - yes... AND I know she is operating a business out of the house (I did too) so I don't know if I want to go there!

I looked whether we can record them & found that 37 states which allow one party consent recording of oral communications which does include Oklahoma. So, my husband is going to have that recorder on him. We know it does a good job because a friend has used it preaching and was able to get a good recording of the message.

Their claim to the house being uninhabitable. I wish you could see the house. It's absolutely CRAZY talk. Custom built 5 years ago. Everything still sparkles like new! The just hurt themselves in my opinion. I'm thinking maybe their problem is financial (that is when she started complaining is when I asked when they were going to pay for items). Maybe they really couldn't afford it with the higher utilities and more gas for travel. I don't know.

But, I will be working on this. My mother wondered if they would just abandon the property & leave without paying rent. We drove by tonight & lights were on. IF that is their plan, then it would make sense that they would refuse entry because we would know what they are doing. We will be there tomorrow & Saturday for appointments.

Plus, if they are damaging things, we would see that too. Tomorrow will tell.

No you misunderstand me. These people are responsible for the rent until you have a new tenant in place. But they are not going to hand over that money to you. You are going to have to sue them to get it. I'm not talking about an injunction to allow you to show but a suit to recover. You probably have a security deposit that may cover some of it, but not all. There is also, the distinct possibility that they will leave with extensive damage in spite. These are all things you need to prepare for.

If you do try to show the house while they are there, leave the prospective tenants in the car, until you have gotten inside. You don't want them being a party to whatever unpleasentness the renters display.

And your husband shouldn't conceal any recording device unless your state law allows it.

Yes, the law allows Oklahoma to record with one party having knowledge. You are probably completely right. It's hard to fathom. I know you aren't supposed to rent something your heart is in, but my heart is there. Since I designed the house & worked very closely with the builder (a close friend & associate in the business), there is much of me in that house. So, I'm going to be a little heartbroken if I see something like that movie when they finally gain access.

Hmmm... are they going to change the locks before we get there? I will leave prospective tenants in the car before taking them to the door. I just don't know what is going to happen. I will update you as we have an appointment tomorrow at 6p and my husband intends to do a little work on the property in the afternoon before then (hauling some tree limbs off and replacing the fan with the previous light).

We thought about asking a friend of ours (former police officer) if he might come along as a witness (since I cannot get the police to come out - I tried). This way, if there are any false claims, he can tell them what really happened along with our recording. Did I mention I spoke with the detective assigned to the "assault" case and told him we were worried about trying to show the house & the detective finished my sentence saying out of fear they will call and make another claim. He's on to them.

I will update the situation tomorrow evening. Also, any final tips will be MUCH appreciated!!

AHHHH... I found one thing in the lease that I could help start the eviction process. I have emailed them twice with information about our times to show the house (last she said I would NOT show it during the week & only certain times on Saturday & Sunday) PLUS I emailed what the rent will be (prorated) without any response from the tenant so far.

In the lease it states "if the party of the first part after using all reasonable means to communicate with the tenant for any reason and is unable to get the party of the second part to respond, this shall be grounds for termination of the lease. Party of the first part may commence eviction proceedings"

Okay, we will see what happens tomorrow & Saturday and what they do on the 1st (paying their rent or not) and I will notify them again in email, hang a sign on the door of the house and have my husband call her husband at his work. If I cannot get any communication on a definite moving date and how we will get the keys/garage door opener, along with getting any rent, we will move forward. If they pay rent but avoid communication with us, I will still move forward as we need to coordinate their move out date & our availability date.

What do you think?

I think you have something there. I think you can take that clause and your evidence to court and ask for an eviction hearing to be scheduled. I believe you will still need a hearing and you will need to properly serve them with notice of that hearing.

Not surprised the police won't help since this is a civil not a criminal matter. I'm not sure if using someone you are acquainted with is the best witness. I would ask your friend to suggest another former (or current office) who would be willing to earn a few bucks for being there as a witness.

I think you have something there. I think you can take that clause and your evidence to court and ask for an eviction hearing to be scheduled. I believe you will still need a hearing and you will need to properly serve them with notice of that hearing.

Not surprised the police won't help since this is a civil not a criminal matter. I'm not sure if using someone you are acquainted with is the best witness. I would ask your friend to suggest another former (or current office) who would be willing to earn a few bucks for being there as a witness.

Today was completely ODD! It's stranger then fiction. We get there to meet the prospective tenants, my husband goes alone to the door, it takes a little while but they answer. My husband comes & get the prospects while I wait in the car and they're in there a little while. He's recording everything... I keep waiting & wondering. Finally, they come out & we go & talk and my husband mentioned the current tenants say they will be out by the 15th in front of the prospects. I said "Oh, okay." Well, after we get in our vehicle to leave, I said "what happened?" And my husband goes on to explain that they were SUPER nice and even helping show the prospects around the house. They acted like they are happy about the move!

Also, the overall condition of the house looks good. It's clean, except for a couple of spots on the carpet!

So, what would you do now? They are being agreeable to show the house & nice too. I left thinking they are going to sue us when they leave, so they are playing nicey nice now. This isn't the type of person who lets something go OR allows herself to lose. It just doesn't set quite right with me. Am I being paranoid?

It could be they consulted their own attorney (or Q&A site) and were told they don't have a leg to stand on, so maybe they figure to get out without you suing them.

At any rate, I think its worth waiting until the 15th, but be ready to file for eviction on the 16th.

Well, the game is on again. They didn't pay the rent. My husband called & reminded them it was the 1st and they still had time to bring the rent over this evening & that they would lose their $50 discount if they didn't pay today. The tenant said "okay" and never came.

I drove by tonight and the outside lights were on (they come on automatically at night), but the house was DARK. They could have been in bed OR gone! We don't know.

I am in the process of writing them an email to remind them about the rent and also let them know that they cannot use the security deposit for rent.

Our lease states if they haven't paid by the 5th, we will start eviction proceedings.

Any other advice would be welcomed. How much do we ask for in the eviction? The full month's rent? We need to know the best avenue to go.

Hello again O:

Stop talking. Start evicting. Stop giving discounts. Start giving late fees. They OWE you the full months rent. So SUE for the full months rent.

excon

The eviction has nothing to do with asking for any amount.

If you are evicting for non-payment,
You need a pay or quit notice. This requires the full amount owed including late fees.

Doesn't a quit notice give them the option to be out in 3 days without paying? I don't quite understand how these notices work because it seems like they can get out & not pay. Well, I think they are trying to do that anyway. Is eviction the right avenue if they are trying to abandon the property & skipping out on the rent?

Hello again, O:

Eviction does NOTHING other than to make SURE they're out. It protects YOU. If they're leaving when they said they would, then the eviction won't effect them at all. It will only effect them if they try to stay.

Once they didn't give you notice, or you didn't give them any, when the 1st rolls around, they owe you a FULL months rent. If they don't pay, and you give them a 3 day notice, and they LEAVE, then that's GOOD for you. It does NOT mean they don't owe you the months rent.

excon

Hello again O:

Stop talking. Start evicting. Stop giving discounts. Start giving late fees. They OWE you the full months rent. So SUE for the full months rent.

excon

I'm confused. I cannot find anything in the law that states the 30 day notice doesn't start until the end of the month & that they owe for the full month's rent. Can you point me in the right direction?

Hello again, O:

Eviction does NOTHING other than to make SURE they're out. It protects YOU. If they're leaving when they said they would, then the eviction won't effect them at all. It will only effect them if they try to stay.

Once they didn't give you notice, or you didn't give them any, when the 1st rolls around, they owe you a FULL months rent. If they don't pay, and you give them a 3 day notice, and they LEAVE, then that's GOOD for you. It does NOT mean they don't owe you the months rent.

excon


Okay, if I give them notice & the leave in 3 days, then I wouldn't be evicting, right? I would just be going to small claims?

I understand your confusion. They are two basic wys for a landlord to terminate a lease early. For non-payment or rent or for other breaches of the lease. Unless the lease provides for other action, then a termination of the lease for other breaches would require a 30 day notice. Only on a nonpayment can you do a 3-10 day pay or quit. And its true that they could pay and stay.

In your case, since they have indicated they want out, I would go ahead with the pay or quit because you want them to know you aren't playing games anymore.

Eviction is what happens when they ignore the initial notice. Whether it be a 3 day pay or quit or a 30 day termination of lease. Once the deadline passes you need to go to court for an eviction order.

Small Claims comes in AFTER they vacate. At that point, you do your walk through and assess any damages. Once you have determined the costs of repairs and the amount of rent still owed, you subtract the deposit. If the deposit doesn't cover that amount, you go to small claims to try and recover the balance. If the deposit does cover, you return the difference.

Okay, great! That is what I needed to know.

I posted the pay or quit notice today. We took pictures with today's newspapers as well. Now what?

Wait

Also, I called the electric company & found they are shutting the power off on Friday (conveniently so I won't have power over the weekend?) I'm glad I called. I was able to transfer it back over to me without having it shut off. I will get all the utilities done, but save all the bills for our big day! They are going to run this week!

If they told the utility to shut off on Friday, that indicates they plan on sneaking out on Friday. I would suggest you be there to take pictures. If you see them loading anything like fixtures that belong to the house into the moving van, call the police. Do not confront them, but report to the police that a theft is in progress. If they know what your car looks like, see if you can borrow one. Or, if you are friendly with any neighbors, see if they will let you camp out by a window.

I have emailed another neighbor who I can trust and hopefully, they'll let me know if they see anything or have already seen anything.

I like the idea of borrowing a car - great idea.

After I posted here, I found the gas is already off (today) so I think they are almost gone. I think they are already living somewhere else now because without gas, they have NO heat & NO hot water.

I pick my husband up from work at 9p tonight & we are going to go by (with another vehicle). When we went to post the notice today, there was still some outside items, although I did notice the trash seemed "over full" so they have probably cleaned out the inside. They seem to move fast (because they moved in fast). I see a pattern emerging in their behavior.

My guess is that they left the electric on so they could leave EARLIER without us noticing since the outside lights come on at night & off in the morning. It looks like someone is still there. I'm just glad I caught this before we were there on the weekend without power trying to show the house.

I drove by. Tonight, the lights were on!! What should I do tomorrow about the gas?? I set up a time to turn it back on because I'm sure they are working tonight packing & moving, but should I wait to turn the gas back on? I'm worried about leaving the pipes in winter weather without heat. Any advice?? I also have showings this week and hate for the house to be cold.

If freezing pipes are a concern, then turn the gas back on. You might check with the Post Office to see if they left a forwarding address.

You might check with the Post Office to see if they left a forwarding address.Hello again, O:

Scott gave you an excellent suggestion. However, I don't think the PO will just give up that information...

Send an empty envelope to the house with FIRST class postage AND your return address. TYPE a note on the envelope, saying: "Address correction requested". The Post Office will then send you their forwarding address if there is one.

excon

Thanks excon, I couldn't remember the exact process to check for a forwarding. I figured the PO would tell them.

Hello O:

Sure:

(1) I'd wait till they're gone before you try to show the house. They're not going to help you rent it.

(2) Before you rent next time, rent the movie "Pacific Palisades".

(3) Get a better application.

excon

Wasn't the movie called... Pacific Heights?

wasn't the movie called ....Pacific Heights?Hello brady:

Yeah, I'm old.

excon

Yes, Pacific Heights... OH, I've seen that movie several times - so dumb and naïve are we!! :)

If freezing pipes are a concern, then turn the gas back on. You might check with the Post Office to see if they left a forwarding address.

I met the gas man today & he turned to gas back on & I went with him to light pilots & check the furnaces & thermostats. I didn't go anywhere he wasn't there & left when he left because I don't want any more burglary charges trying to be filed against us. The house still had a lot of furniture in it & their dog.

Since they turned the gas off yesterday & are having the electric turned off Friday (I'll check to see if they had it moved up), can I assume abandonment on Friday & change the locks? Can I do it because the gas has already been shut off?

Even though they have items in the house, they appear to not be sleeping there. Beds are without linens and even mattresses on the floor. The kitchen looks cleaned out, but like I said, I didn't go through anything to verify whether they are living there or not.

Also... they have not forwarded their mail yet and when they do we would have to subpoena the post office for their address. How else can you get it?

Hello again, O:

Scott gave you an excellent suggestion. However, I don't think the PO will just give up that information...

Send an empty envelope to the house with FIRST class postage AND your return address. TYPE a note on the envelope, saying: "Address correction requested". The Post Office will then send you their forwarding address if there is one.

excon

I like this idea. The PO definitely won't just give this over the phone. Where are on the envelope would you put "address correction requested"?

Maybe I should post a new thread about where to go from here?

No, keep the thread here. I think if they have shut off the utilities and moved out their belongings you can change the locks. Make sure you have proof the house was emptied and statements from the utilities.

They have stuff there still. But, I will have proof of utilities showing that I took over gas today & Friday will take over electric.

My husband believes they are going to leave a few remaining items to "look" like they haven't vacated so they can delay us renting so it will financially hurt us while we pay for 2 places.

Today their dog was there, but tonight when we showed the house, the dog was gone. I believe they are still moving stuff, but are no longer living or sleeping there.

If I have both utilities in my name by Friday, isn't it fair to say they cannot be living there without utilities? If there are remaining items, I'll hold them until they pay the rent.

Don't you think a judge would believe they have abandoned the property when they are no longer having the utilities on?

They emailed me back late today and said they have not vacated & have not abandoned the property, but will NOT answer my questions about what date will they be out, when will they pay rent, & how will I get my keys/garage door opener back.

Of course, I also said "So you are intending to live there without heat or hot water since you already had the gas turned off?" And yes, I got no answer to that either. Would a judge buy that they are living there without heat or hot water (by choice - they scheduled the shut off) in the middle of winter?

Here's your problem. Arbitrarily changing the locks can cause you a problem. So you want to be very careful there.

You said you served them with a pay or quit. I would follow through on that and go to court for the order. When you go to the hearing show the judge what is going on and he may give you permission to change the locks.

If there are remaining items, I'll hold them until they pay the rent.Hello again, O:

You can't hold their property. That's called stealing, and they'll call the cops on you again.

You should NEVER, EVER be a landlord again.

Plus, I told you to stop talking to them. You didn't listen.

excon

Here's your problem. Arbitrarily changing the locks can cause you a problem. So you want to be very careful there.

You said you served them with a pay or quit. I would follow through on that and go to court for the order. When you go to the hearing show the judge what is going on and he may give you permission to change the locks.

Okay, you have a point. I will follow through & ask for permission to change the locks if they have stuff remaining there.

HOWEVER, I believe the house will be bare by Friday night - if the house has nothing in it & I have the utilities in my name and their mail has been forwarded, then could I assume abandonment & rekey the locks?

Hello again, O:

You can't hold their property. That's called stealing, and they'll call the cops on you again.

You should NEVER, EVER be a landlord again.

Plus, I told you to stop talking to them. You didn't listen.

excon


Excon, I am showing the house & giving them 24 hr notice EVERY time I'm showing so they have NO cause against us. So, this is why I still have contact!

Our lease also states that if I try to communicate with them for ANY reason and I cannot get them to respond, I have cause for eviction. Just trying to prepare and show that I made reasonable efforts & they failed to respond to me.

And there is NO option about being a landlord again. We own the property and in this economy it isn't going to sell for months & months. We cannot afford 2 properties. So, we will be re-renting the property. And I will be much more careful while also re-writing some of our lease to cover issues that have come up here.

The truth is, our house is immaculate and these people were just plain crazy! See for yourself: http://tulsa.craigslist.org/apa/1007882980.html

I wouldn't be stealing their stuff IF they abandon the property. I guess I just cannot "hold their stuff" is what you are saying without following the below!!

It states "If the tenant abandons or surrenders possession of the dwelling unit or has been lawfully removed from the premises through eviction proceedings and leaves household goods, furnishings, fixtures, or any other personal property of an ascertainable or apparent value in the dwelling unit including property classified as exempt from a landlord's lien pursuant to Section 133 of this title, the landlord may take possession of the property and give notice to the tenant, demanding that the property be removed within the dates set out in the notice but not less than fifteen (15) days after delivery or mailing of such notice, and that if the property is not removed within the time specified in the notice, the landlord may sell the property at a public sale. The landlord may dispose of perishable commodities in any manner the landlord considers fit. Payment by the tenant of all outstanding rent, damages, storage fees, court costs and attorneys fees shall be a prerequisite to the return of the personal property. For purposes of this section, notice sent by certified mail to the tenant's last-known address with forwarding requested shall be deemed sufficient notice.

So, if they do not have the gas or electric on & they are no longer sleeping in the house, doesn't that qualify as abandonment? If so, isn't rekeying a standard procedure for an abandoned property?

If the property is abandoned, then why can't I make a prerequisite of the return of personal property based on payment of outstanding rent and anything else not covered by the security deposit? Isn't that what this is saying? Am I reading this wrong?

I will continue the process of eviction, but I'd like to be able to get someone else in the house before the end of the month.

I'm not trying to be difficult, I'm trying to understand.

HOWEVER, I believe the house will be bare by Friday night - if the house has nothing in it & I have the utilities in my name and their mail has been forwarded, then could I assume abandonment & rekey the locks?

Here's where you need a witness. Go through the house with a video camera and a witness to attest to its accuracy.

I would also contact your local housing court to see what they would accept as proof of abandonment.

Thanks! Will do!

Thanks excon for the compliment. This is why the situation is just so weird and so odd why they were making so many claims about the house - that we weren't providing heat and it wasn't habitable. That's why I said they were CRAZY!

Okay, here's what I got today: We will completely be out by Monday Feb 9th. We are going to send your key and garage door openers through certified mail. We only got one key, as your husband only gave us one initially and we never got another, but we do have the two garage openers to forward to you.

Now, I don't want those items sent certified mail - I should have them asap. Can I demand that?

And the power will be shut off the 6th. The power & gas will be in my name then. They are NOT living there. Do I wait until the 9th then?

I wanted to show the house on Saturday - open house. This will delay any potential of renting it this weekend. They are just dragging their feet.

Check your lease and local law. It might compel them to have a final walkthrough. If so, you can tell them that they need to meet you at the property for such a walkthru and the handover of the keys. You may have to wait until the 9th for this walkthru. In the meantime you are proceeding with the eviction order.

If they refuse to have the walkthru or if there is nothing to compel them to, respond that you will take possession of the property on the morning of the 9th (since they said BY the 9th).

TELL them also, that you are having an open house on the 7th. Any possessions of their's still in the property will be placed in the garage or some other part of the house.

Check your lease and local law. It might compel them to have a final walkthrough. if so, you can tell them that they need to meet you at the property for such a walkthru and the handover of the keys. You may have to wait until the 9th for this walkthru. In the meantime you are proceeding with the eviction order.

If they refuse to have the walkthru or if there is nothing to compel them to, respond that you will take possession of the property on the morning of the 9th (since they said BY the 9th).

TELL them also, that you are having an open house on the 7th. Any possessions of their's still in the property will be placed in the garage or some other part of the house.


Wait - I'm re-reading the lease again. Here's what it says:
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k48/wilsonta1/lease-possession.jpg

Doesn't this say that I can take possession of the premises at my option for failing to pay the rent? I mean, if so, can't I justify the fact they have no heat, no hot water & no electric as of the 6th and therefore, go ahead & change the locks because they are no longer occupying the residence? And especially, since they receive the Notice to Pay or Quit and I gave them 3 days. They haven't been living in the house since the 2nd for sure (the same day they got notice).

I could still do the walk-thru with someone on the 6th with a camera and show they are no longer sleeping/living there. Then, I'd move their possessions to the garage (since they have the openers) and they could easily come & remove those items at any time but NO longer be able to get into the house. What do you think?

Today they had the water turned off and the trash container is still sitting by the street after yesterday's trash (they set the trash out Tuesday when they picked up their dog). It is obvious they aren't living there.

I have an appointment for tomorrow afternoon to re-key the house. I don't care if they think they can claim they are there because they still have stuff in the house, they have NO utilities as of tomorrow and the house is clearly abandoned.

Any further advice?? I was waiting to do this to make sure there are no big red flags that someone may point out.

I'm still hesitant about advising that you rekey until you are sure that you legally can. I would seek the advise of a local attorney, Landlord's association or local court to make sure you are on firm ground.

I'm still hesitant about advising that you rekey until you are sure that you legally can. I would seek the advise of a local attorney, Landlord's association or local court to make sure you are on firm ground.

Hmmmm... I'm still working on this to find out! I'll let you know, but I have the locksmith scheduled for 2p. I went by the house again and it was dark. Trash container still at the street. They simply are not there! But, I will verify that I have enough to show abandonment!

I did change the locks. However, the locksmith came when the tenants were there with a big truck. We didn't lock them out, but allowed them to continue to get their stuff out. I knew there was no way they would be there over a weekend without power, water or gas. We came back later that night & the house was cleaned out (except for their mess and a few remaining items I guess they left for me).

We were there all day cleaning - overall not terrible. A few minor repairs will need to be done, but no major damage. There is a smell upstairs which we cannot figure out what it is, but we thinking carpet cleaning will end that.

They left a small air hockey table & desk so I'll notify them & put them in storage until the end of the month.

Now, I'm planning on taking them to small claims. I'm putting all the charges together, but do I wait until I rent so I know the exact amount? Is there anything I need to include besides rent and cleaning (per the Appendix in our lease).

Do I also report them to the credit agencies? Before or after court? And who should I use for this?

Also, who do you recommend for future background checks?

Wait until you find a new tenant. So you have all the costs. I wouldn't bother reporting them to credit agencies, but if there is a landlord association in your area, I would report it to them and they should also be able to recommend someone for background checks.

Wait until you find a new tenant. so you have all the costs. I wouldn't bother reporting them to credit agencies, but if there is a landlord association in your area, I would report it to them and they should also be able to recommend someone for background checks.

Will do! I also wonder how to access for damages. For instance, in the kitchen, there is cosmetic damage to the faucet along with finger nail polish on the tile/grout/cabinets/counter there. There is also a burn mark on the master vanity from a flat iron on white countertop.

Faucet Before: http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k48/wilsonta1/kitchenfaucet-before.jpg
Faucet After: http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k48/wilsonta1/DUROUSSEA-CARROLL119.jpg

You can see where they have literally "picked off" the black on the handle & finger nail polish is on that & the tile/grout behind. This is not a cheap faucet - Home Depot price is $719.10! GROHE Ladylux Plus Faucet, Stainless Steel and Black - 33759KD0 at The Home Depot (http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100068128&N=10000003+501572+10058019)

I took a picture of the damage on the counter in the master bath, but it didn't turn out well. I need to take another one. Where there is other damage like blinds, I can easily just get a replacement cost for it when I make the purchase, but how do you access damage to items like this where they still function.

What a beautiful faucet, how disrespectful.

I don't have any legal advice on the matter, just wanted to tell you what a beautiful home you are renting, although I could only see a bit of it.

What a beautiful faucet, how disrespectful.

I don't have any legal advice on the matter, just wanted to tell you what a beautiful home you are renting, although I could only see a bit of it.

Thanks! Here's the listing... UPDATE: BERRYHILL, 2700 SF 4/2/2 w/ Study, Backs to Greenbelt (http://tulsa.craigslist.org/apa/1007882980.html)

That is beautiful. Do you rent it furnished? I would think that $775 deposit is not enough, especially after all this trouble. Protect yourself and the home.

That is beautiful. Do you rent it furnished? I would think that $775 deposit is not enough, especially after all this trouble. Protect yourself and the home.

You may be right! I agree that the deposit is probably too low. I'll talk to my husband about it. We do not rent it furnished.