My husband and I got married five and a half years ago.
Two days before our wedding a woman comes to his brother's house where we were and hands him a four month old baby and says it's his.
I walked away from the situation but came back because my husband truly didn't believe the child was his. The mother is black my husband is white, the child looked nothing like him but circumstances as they are the baby wouldn't look a lot like him anyway.
She begged him to come back to her and he refused as nicely as possible, telling her that their relationship ended months ago, it was a short relationship of two months where it was not exclusive and he didn't love her.
Two years pass and he is summonded for DNA and child support. He complies. The child is his.
They made contact 18 months ago and she said she was living in a one bedroom apartment with her mother, husband and four kids, including the now three year old, Avery.
He picks up the child from her expecting to have him a few weeks maybe months to get herself on her feet. And yes all this time he's paying child support.
It has been almost two years since Avery has seen his mother. She called and talked to him once in July and a couple of times in October of 2007. All the while we are still being forced by the state to pay child support to the mother which she refuses to return and yes I have taken necessary action to stop it. It has only been two months since they have started paying it back to him after it's taken from his check.
Avery is a VERY disobedient and troubled child. He is not meshing well even after all this time. He refuses to adhere to disipline at home or school. He is in kindergarten and has already been suspended from school three times.
Due to the economic crisis my husband has been forced to take a job that causes him to be gone overseas for a month and then home for a few weeks in a rotation. The mother is not interested in the child. She only called when she realized her child support was stopping to cuss my husband out for not sending her money anymore.
I cannot tolerate this child's behavior. I have tried everything that I can do. Rewards, punishment, bribery, time out, everything. He treats me badly and he doesn't respect anybody. He has only gotten worse since my husband has been gone and he too is fed up with the constant problems. I finally reached his mother last night and told her it was time to take him back. The only thing she is interested in is my husband's paycheck. I have tried to look at all avenues of getting him out of having to pay directly out of his check. Paying child support would ruin us. We have three other children and we are barely making ends meet as it is. We are doing our best to provide for all of our family but I cannot justify paying her a quarter of his income because how then can we support our other three children? Two of mine are not considered in the "child support worksheet" because they are mine but he supports them.
I understand that men have this obligation to support their children. I get that. But when the situation has been that HE never had a choice in whether he wanted the child from the beginning which he did not then why is it that men who don't want these children are forced to sacrific a huge part of their lives and happiness because they are obligated to them. Women have the right to terminate their pregnancies but men have no choice?? And it's all the man's fault that the woman got pregnant to begin with? Because that is what society has been saying. Men have two choices for birth control, abstinence or condoms but women have several choices. Was it not the woman who also laid down and made this child? Why is it that the man is always forced into submission by our legal system? He didn't have the right to an abortion, he has to be subjected to her choice. Now we are left with a child that has been screwed up by this woman or God knows who else and either we pay with our happiness or we pay with our financial stability. Either way we pay. There are women out there fighting for feminist rights. Who is fighting for our men?? There are women who have children by men JUST to get child support and support from welfare! Believe me I have known a lot of them. Why is this OK?? Why are we sitting here watching this happen to our husbands and fathers and brothers? Why is it always said that "he knocked her up" not that "she let herself get pregnant"? Our system is screwed up and someone needs to stop what is going on before the entire concept of "family" is gone. Men forced to pay child support to ex girlfriends or one night stands are having this huge burdon placed upon not just them but the wife and children that they eventually acquire. Does this not say that one child is better than the other? Supporting an estranged child and mother which keeps you from being able to provide the wonderful life you imagined to have with your wife and children? I don't want to raise Avery. I don't think it should be my responsibility. My husband can't because he HAS to have a job. He can't find work in his field in the states. He can't take the child with him. Avery's mother has pretty much abandoned him and if I did try to give him back she is going to break us financially. Are there any other options out there?? What else can be done? I looked into sending him to a boys home for troubled kids but he isn't old enough to go to one. I never could understand why people are punished for not wanting their children but they are and I don't think we deserve it we have done everything we know to do. :( :confused:

What state is this in? Your husband's ex wouldn't necessarily receive a quarter of his income, especially for only one child.

You mentioned that your husband is supporting your children; has he legally adopted them? Some states will factor in if a parent is supporting another child(ren) but he needs to have legal rights to those children.

I'm a bit confused because you stated that the child's mother has been absent for 2 years, but then state that your husband has continued to pay child support to her, then you post that you can't afford for him to pay child support. Either your husband needs to a)go to court and get the child support changed over as well as the custody and physical placement or b)send the child to live with his mother and continue to pay support, as you claim you are already doing.

And I don't think it's right that you're criticizing this woman for having a child. Sure, maybe she is just abusing the system but your husband was there to make the baby, too. You have no right to get angry at her for a decision that he willingly made as a consenting adult.

Unfortunately for the child your husband took his pants off and laid down with this woman. Whether he loved her or not or took precautions or not doesn't much matter at this point.

Your husband has, as you said, a legal obligation to support the child. If he does not want custody, then HE has to go to Court and file a petition concerning child support/visitation/custody. If the father and mother both don't want the child, then the Court will have to arrange for some other placement.

If you simply cannot handle, love or, for that matter, like, the child then do the child a favor and get some social or legal intervention.

The rest of what you have posted is not for the legal boards. Perhaps it's a good discussion question, perhaps a good "family relationship" question, but it's not a legal question.

What state is this in? Your husband's ex wouldn't necessarily receive a quarter of his income, especially for only one child.

You mentioned that your husband is supporting your children; has he legally adopted them? Some states will factor in if a parent is supporting another child(ren) but he needs to have legal rights to those children.

I'm a bit confused because you stated that the child's mother has been absent for 2 years, but then state that your husband has continued to pay child support to her, then you post that you can't afford for him to pay child support. Either your husband needs to a)go to court and get the child support changed over as well as the custody and physical placement or b)send the child to live with his mother and continue to pay support, as you claim you are already doing.

And I don't think it's right that you're criticizing this woman for having a child. Sure, maybe she is just abusing the system but your husband was there to make the baby, too. You have no right to get angry at her for a decision that he willingly made as a consenting adult.


This case is in two states. And currently my husband's support is calculated off his pay from when he was in the military. If he paid support off his income now, the payments would go up likely five times what he had to pay before. And I think I have full right to criticize her for having a child and not telling him about it and making the decision on her own to try to force him to be a husband and father to her and the child. That is not how you gain a husband but for some reason women think it's OK to get pregnant and try to force the father to marry her. That IS wrong and shameful, but I guess you think that it's OK? Apparently you aren't the only person who feels that way. Thanks for the response although not helpful.

This case is in two states. And currently my husband's support is calculated off of his pay from when he was in the military. If he paid support off of his income now, the payments would go up likely five times what he had to pay before. And I think I have full right to criticize her for having a child and not telling him about it and making the decision on her own to try to force him to be a husband and father to her and the child. That is not how you gain a husband but for some reason women think it's ok to get pregnant and try to force the father to marry her. That IS wrong and shameful, but I guess you think that it's ok? Apparently you aren't the only person who feels that way. Thanks for the response although not helpful.



Are you aware that if the mother of the child takes your husband back to Court and it is revealed that he is not paying the appropriate percentage he can be ordered to pay what he SHOULD have paid if he had notified the Court of the change in circumstances?

I don't know what States you are dealing with but it is a possibility, depending on how the child support Order was written.

Please don't confront people who are trying to help you - what we think or don't think doesn't matter. It's a legal thread and the anwers are according to the Law. Any of the "what do you think, what would you do" arguments are fodder for another Board.

Also, a passive aggressive stance is particularly annoying.

Of course the child support does not end, just if the child moves in with you, unless the father goes back to court and makes a motion to have it end.

The court order is valid and in place until it is changed.

I had my one son for 2 years and could not get the order changed and I had to pay child support for those 2 years the child was living with me. You are mistaken about what is fair and what is legal they are two different things.

Next if there is a current court order for him to pay and it is not based on his correct pay, the court can make him pay back pay for the correct amount, since there is a valid court order.

Next, no there can not be cases in two states, only one state has jurisdiction, so if you refile in another state, it will take over for the other state.

If you don't want to hear the truth stayc, please don't ask

Of course the child support does not end, just if the child moves in with you, unless the father goes back to court and makes a motion to have it end.

The court order is valid and in place untill it is changed.

I had my one son for 2 years and could not get the order changed and I had to pay child support for those 2 years the child was living with me. You are mistaken about what is fair and what is legal they are two different things.

Next if there is a current court order for him to pay and it is not based on his correct pay, the court can make him pay back pay for the correct amount, since there is a valid court order.

Next, no there can not be cases in two states, only one state has jurisdiction, so if you refile in another state, it will take over for the other state.

If you don't want to hear the truth stayc, please don't ask

Ok let me clarify the child support issue. He is paying to Texas. Texas is paying it to Georgia. A few months ago Georgia (the original state) closed the case because we proved we have the child. Texas is still taking the payments because they are trying to get the paperwork straight to close the case, somewhere it was lost and they are working on it. So as far as the state with the original order is concerned there is no child support owed. So they won't take him back for the correct amount because they have closed the case. And yes there is two states. In Georgia the case was established, in Texas it is enforced. BOTH states are monitoring this child support issue.

I feel sorry for Avery. He is acting out because he is lost and most likely wants his mother in his life. He knows your not his mother and see you interacting with your other kids and probably thinks why my mom is doing the same for me. So his feelings turn into anger and his anger makes him act out. This is what he knows and it's sad.

Maybe counselling would help him. It's not too late and maybe you're his only hope.

Have you ever heard of a singer name Bob Marley? If not he was a reggea singer from Jamaica very well known. Anyway, he got married and had a wife with kids. Well while he was on the road he cheated on his wife a number of times and his cheating ways resulted with kids being born. When these kids was born he would take the babies to his wife for her to raise and he would go back on the road and continue cheating. Now I thought the wife was silly for accepting his behavior and then raising kids that wasn't hers but her husband but she did. She raised them as he own and didn't treat them any different. These kids are now grown and they praise her for taking them in and calls her mom and not the ones that gave birth to them. It takes a strong woman to do what she did and I find her amazing.

I know you have your own kids and he is a handful but you can help this boy and it could have an everlasting affect on his future and could do some good. He is screaming for help and you might be that person that could help. Don't give up on him.

What does your husband say or do to help him?

My husband, up until recently because of all the drama with him at school before he left for China, actually was very partial to Avery. He treated him like "the baby" because he was the youngest. The older kids were actually jealous which caused problems with them and I had to explain to them that Avery was younger and Jeremy didn't have much time with him and we didn't know when he would have to go back. For the first year Avery and I pretty much did everything together because he wasn't in school. But his behavior continued to get worse. I'm not sure that it is directly connected to his mother though because my husband's older son went through some of the same behaviors that Avery is. Although, Devin too was separated from his mother except it was done by the state. It is especially hard for me because my two boys (all four of our kids are boys) have NEVER been disobedient. They are "sir" and "maam" kids. My older son is in 6th grade and has never received a negative comment from a teacher. My younger son has had one teacher tell me he hurt her feelings but I don't think he realized that he did. So like I said very well behaved children. His children are very much the opposite. The assistant principal at the school said she has never in her career had a kindergartener that was as bad as Avery. I don't think she used the word bad but that pretty much summed it up. I also feel bad for Avery I know he didn't ask for this and he didn't ask to be born, but I just wish that he could work with us even a little bit. He is fighting us every step of the way like he hates us and hates being here. At this point my husband just wants it all to go away because he feels like he tried to give his son a better life and a better place and Avery basically spit in his face. Let me give you an quick example. We had to get our licenses renewed. We went to the licensing office and took the kids. While we are doing the paperwork Avery is sitting in the waiting area, just a few feet from us yelling to the clerk saying "put my daddy in jail" and laughing about it. I know he's a kid but we've never talked to him about jail. How does he know about jail? And why would he want his father to be put in jail? It is constantly things like that or worse. He stripped all of his clothes off in his classroom and stood there laughing and playing with himself. We have sought out a counselor for both of his children but it's useless. Like the kids think they are a joke. My husband's older son is on medication because of his behavior. It's much easier to deal with all of this when my husband is home but now he's gone away out of the country and I'm left here lonely and having to take responsibility for everything. I know that sounds a bit whiny but I feel like if I am the one raising his kids someone should be here to help a little. And I can't help but feel like my boys are getting the raw end of the deal out of all this. They do nothing wrong ever, but they are subjected to not being able to be rewarded for their good behavior because we are too busy trying to correct the other two kids bad behavior. I had to get my child counseling because my husband's older son put his penis in my son's mouth while he was sleeping and urinated in it. I have really come to the end of my ability to tolerate these horrible acts these children (not just Avery) perform. But I don't want to walk away from my marriage because of it. If I do that they basically don't have anyone to take care of them anyway. I want their mother's to not be pieces of crap and take care of them like they are supposed to. Love them like a mother should because that's what they need. Devin's (the older of his children) mother is getting better and is actually taking care of him right now, but it took four years for her to do it. Now she is doing much better and he seems to be happy to be spending time with her while my husband is away. I am afraid that Avery's mother is not getting to that point and I don't forsee her to any time soon. I did tell my husband (joking and serious at the same time) that he is not contributing very well to the DNA pool and should stop having children if they were going to have these kinds of problems. We have agreed not to have children of our own.

Oh, my goodness! I can't believe what your stepson did your son or what Avery did in the classroom.

I understand what your going through and to be honest wouldn't want to be in your shoes at this point.

Yes, your husband should be with you helping out because you need it. To be honest, I bet you that your husband is happy he isn't so he doesn't have to deal with it.

One on hand it's good that your husband stepped in and took his kids so they could be raise in a better home but it's sad that he isn't stepping up and leaving you to cover the slack. Especially since he knows their behavior. He needs to do something and be not partially involve but fully involve.

I don't really know what to say to you but when is he coming back because the two of you really needs to talk.

I can understand that you feel super stressed by this, and you are uncomfortable. Your life has bin interupted by the economic situation, and Avery.

Things are hard in times like these, but we will get through.

"I cannot tolerate this child's behavior. I have tried everything that I can do. Rewards, punishment, bribery, time out, everything. He treats me badly and he doesn't respect anybody. He has only gotten worse since my husband has been gone and he too is fed up with the constant problems." - you

Can't or won't? You need to ask yourself, and be honest, is it that you can't or won't?
Tried every thing eh? Have you read up on his behaviours? Does he have ADD, ADHD, some kind of mental disfunction? IF so you will need to do more than "rewards/ punishment/ bribery/ time-out and everything" and I think you know this alread.

He sounds like a child lost, lonely, afraid, and confused. Question is how do you show him other wise when you don't know how to explain it to him? You may want to take him to a counseler, and you go and listen to the counseler.

A few things you may want to try with him, Applied behaviour analysis, or even behaviourism's "shaping", pay very close attention to him, and see if you can point out triggers.

Something I recommend for yourself is, Look up Cognitive Psychology, see what you can learn there. Its' about learning what you think, and how you react and how to change that.

For Example: A stopper, something that you think that paralizes you from action.
Lets say in your case, Avery is hard to deal with. So your thoughts are: "I cannot tolerate this child's behavior! He treats me badly and he doesn't respect anybody. He has only gotten worse since my husband has been gone and he too is fed up with the constant problems." - your thoughts.

These thoughts cause you to pretty much feel hopeless and apathetic (don't care one way or the other.). This drains you, sucking the energy you would have to help him/ yourself right out of you, and replacing the energy with fear and doubt. Then comes the snowball effect, the thoughts come more and stronger, until you cave and quit.
*One way to over come this is by remembering, "Action equals benefit-to-be-obtained over risk-to-be-taken." -Warning, if you do not use good sound judgment then this can get you into trouble.*

There is also, Looking into the "Fast Forword program". See if your school has it, and if he can use it, and what may happen. It's made by a place called scientific Learning. Scientific Learning | Fit Brains Learn Better (http://www.scilearn.com/)
The program, I believe, was made by the neuro Psychologist, Dr. Merznich.

I'll have to continue later, I'm off to watch a movie, Max Payne. Sorry.

Peace and kindness be with you.

Oh, my goodness! I can't believe what your stepson did your son or what Avery did in the classroom.

I understand what your going through and to be honest wouldn't want to be in your shoes at this point.

Yes, your husband should be with you helping out because you need it. To be honest, I bet you that your husband is happy he isn't so he doesn't have to deal with it.

One on hand it's good that your husband stepped in and took his kids so they could be raise in a better home but it's sad that he isn't stepping up and leaving you to cover the slack. Especially since he knows their behavior. He needs to do something and be not partially involve but fully involve.

I don't really know what to say to you but when is he comming back because the two of you really needs to talk.

He will be back February 5th for two weeks and then gone again for at least a month. The thing is though we have talked and talked and talked and it's gotten us nowhere. I promise you we have done everything in our power to bring these kids over to the good side, but NOTHING works. It has been nearly five years since we got Devin and I can only be comforted in the fact that the only severe behaviors he displays are stealing, lying, and occasionally fighting (physically not verbally) with other kids. The sad part is that it's a relief that those are the only things he's doing now. I feel like I'm starting over with Avery and I really don't think I'm up for it. I am not a person who would just walk out on any kid, but sometimes what choice is there when your own sanity is involved. I thought at first that it was Devin's mother's fault. That somehow she subjected him to horrible things that caused him to act the way he does, but then we got Avery, who has a different mother and never even met Devin. They are the same kid over again. I can't possibly be his mother's fault.

I can understand that you feel super stressed by this, and you are uncomfortable. Your life has bin interupted by the economic situation, and Avery.

Things are hard in times like these, but we will get through.

"I cannot tolerate this child's behavior. I have tried everything that I can do. Rewards, punishment, bribery, time out, everything. He treats me badly and he doesn't respect anybody. He has only gotten worse since my husband has been gone and he too is fed up with the constant problems." - you

Can't or won't?? You need to ask your self, and be honest, is it that you can't or won't??
Tried every thing eh? Have you read up on his behaviours?? Does he have ADD, ADHD, some kind of mental disfunction? IF so you will need to do more than "rewards/ punishment/ bribery/ time-out and everything" and I think you know this alread.

He sounds like a child lost, lonely, affraid, and confused. Question is how do you show him other wise when you don't know how to explain it to him?? You may want to take him to a counseler, and you go and listen to the counseler.

A few things you may want to try with him, Applied behaviour analysis, or even behaviourism's "shaping", pay very close attention to him, and see if you can point out triggers.

Something i recomend for yourself is, Look up Cognitive Psychology, see what you can learn there. Its' about learning what you think, and how you react and how to change that.

for Example: A stopper, something that you think that paralizes you from action.
Lets say in your case, Avery is hard to deal with. So your thoughts are: "I cannot tolerate this child's behavior! He treats me badly and he doesn't respect anybody. He has only gotten worse since my husband has been gone and he too is fed up with the constant problems." - your thoughts.

These thoughts cause you to pretty much feel hopeless and apathetic (don't care one way or the other.). This drains you, sucking the energy you would have to help him/ your self right out of you, and replacing the energy with fear and doubt. Then comes the snowball effect, the thoughts come more and stronger, until you cave and quit.
*One way to over come this is by remembering, "Action equals benefit-to-be-obtained over risk-to-be-taken." -Warning, if you do not use good sound judgment then this can get you into trouble.*

There is also, Looking into the "Fast Forword program". See if your school has it, and if he can use it, and what may happen. It's made by a place called scientific Learning. Scientific Learning | Fit Brains Learn Better (http://www.scilearn.com/)
The program, I believe, was made by the neuro Psychologist, Dr. Merznich.

I'll have to continue later, I'm off to watch a movie, Max Payne. Sorry.

Peace and kindness be with you.

Thank you for the references. I will look up the ones I am not already familiar with. I do know a great deal about ADD and ADHD because Avery's older brother was diagnosed with ADHD several years ago and I was the one who took him to his counselors and psychiatrist appointments. He has been medicated for years for this condition. I have sought out counselling for Avery. It is not helping. I will research the areas you suggested.

Thank you for the references. I will look up the ones I am not already familiar with. I do know a great deal about ADD and ADHD because Avery's older brother was diagnosed with ADHD several years ago and I was the one who took him to his counselors and psychiatrist appointments. He has been medicated for years for this condition. I have sought out counselling for Avery. It is not helping. I will research the areas you suggested.

Also, please read the post to Liz28 that I sent. It gives a little more insight about the situation.

Your post was very long and detailed - and there are so many multiple issues here. You sound very frustrated by having to take care of the children by yourself - it sounds like you feel you have been dumped on and your husband is offering no support to you. I would feel frustrated as well - the children are acting out - you have one child that sexually abused another - and one child that is small - Avery - and is having behavior problems. This is no surprise since his Mother has abandoned him, his Father is absent, and he is being cared for by his Stepmother who does not want him.

I am not saying you do not have a right to feel overwhelmed by all these children and problems - but it is your husband who came with baggage and a child. You must not take your anger out on this child because you are angry with the Mother - and your husband for leaving all of the responsibility of the children to you. Your husband has a child, Avery, and you cannot change that.

From what you wrote, it is clear that Avery's Mother does not want to care for him. If you cannot care for Avery then you must seriously talk with your husband about his plans. You must be honest that you, as his wife and as the Stepmother to Avery, do not want to care for him. Your actions will continue to be very hurtful to Avery since you do not want to care for him.

If you marry a man that has a past and children - and trust me most men do - then you must work as a family to help each other and get the help you need. If you plan to stay with your husband, then you must know that he has a child and that he may need your help in caring for that child - whether the Mother is involved. Your marriage is strained at this point and you and your husband would do well to see a Therapist together to address your feelings, your concerns for the children and the fact that basically you are alone in handling all the problems at home. Your husband must be accountable to not just you, but to the children who are young and need the support of both parents.

Please do not feel that you have to go at this alone when there is help. If your husband refuses to go - then go alone. You may need to decide whether this situation is what you want. The children are having emotional and behavior problems - and it is easy to blame them - and Avery - when in fact you and your husband need to work as a team - and you may need professional help to do that. You need help here, solutions - and it can be done.

From what you wrote, you are trying very hard to ignore that your husband is the other adult here and his participation is badly needed - not just for you but for his children.

If you decide to stay - then you must begin to change your frame of mind from "what is mine" - to "what is best for our family" - and that includes Avery. You as his Stepmother should regard him with care and concern, and kindness since he is a child, and the child of a man that you supposedly loved and therefore married. Your anger and hurt at your husband because he fathered a child with another woman is at the front of your frustration however - and this you will need to deal with in therapy if you are to continue with your husband. For your sake, and your family's sake - I hope you find the help you and your husband need and the children need.

You know, you're right. And I already tried the therapy thing with my husband and he gets pissed off and says that it is a waste of his time. Believe me I have put forth the effort to "fix" all of this for years. I did most of the therapy work when Devin was little and it was like pounding my head against a brick wall because if my husband doesn't see anything beneficial in it for him alone on an almost immediate basis he doesn't want to have anything to do with it. He gets angry and doesn't hold it in well. He's not abusive but he will sulk and yell. I have told him that I'm not here to be a slave to his decisions but he still refuses to really step in and help raise his own children. One of the biggest reasons I never walked out though was because I know that nobody will take care of these kids when I leave. I did leave once because I was exhausted with him and not just the kids but everything. So guess what he does! He goes back to Georgia and picks up one of his exgirlfriends and moves her in our home in Texas to take care of the children. I should have stayed gone and I was planning to but he knows exactly how to manipulate me into doing things I don't want to do.
Believe it or not if it weren't for his kids we wouldn't even be together. We had Avery visit one other time. He was 2 it was right after the DNA results and child support. My husband had me fly out to Atlanta, Georgia to pick him up. We had him for a month. He was a very angelic child then. Very sweet didn't say much but very sweet. We even went out and bought a used van so we had enough room for all the kids to ride places. My husband was in the army but not deployed at the time. I actually thought I was becoming friends with Avery's mother. She would call every day and we would stay on the phone for hours. Then my husband decides he wants to have one of his fits and move out. He takes his kids and goes to a friends one bedroom house and moves in. Later, after I have packed all my belongings going back home to Georgia he find out that his older son, on a visit to Georgia tells HIS mother that they weren't living at home anymore and they were living in a one bedroom house with his father and friend. My husband comes back begging me to let him move back home and "fix" our relationship "for the kid's sake" he says. "I would do it for you" he said. He was going to get in a whole lot of trouble for having the kids in a tiny little house and not properly caring for them. Later I find out that my husband and Avery's mother had been making plans to get me out of his life so she could have the husband she wanted him to be. Avery's mother was telling my husband she loved him and they would make such a happy family together. All the while she's telling me she hates him and "he's from the devil" is what she said. And how dare he leave her when she was pregnant. I do know for a fact that he didn't know she was pregnant when he left her. I later realize that to her, I'm the "other woman". They had been broken up for months when I met my husband, yet she blames me for them not being together. Still today I can barely get her to talk to me about Avery because it is all about how I stole her man. Now that I'm thinking about all of this and finally putting my thoughts together, I feel like an idiot. And again, whenever I try to talk to him about any of this he gets angry. It's like he feels like I am blaming him when really I'm just trying to discuss things and get them off my chest and get some intelligent reaction from him. But all I get is pouting and stomping. He got a lot better after he got out of the military, but he still won't talk to me about much more then sex and cars.

>two Threads Merged<

I had some pretty harsh things to say until I continued to read all of this thread, and can see how really overwhelmed you are, and how alone you are with so much to do. Your also pretty tough, you just need the right support with you, and sorry the hubby ain't it.

If you have no family to count on, social services, or your local human resource agency, may provide that back up to you.

Your husband has to work for sure, but if not for you, these children of his would have nothing at all, so I will applaud your efforts, and hope for the best for you. Now get some help and support.

It doesn't sems like your husband cares about you nor his kids let alone yours. He might just be keeping you around to be a caregiver while he does nothing.

He cheated, move in ex girlfriends, left you, plotting to do the same with another ex, don't you think deserve better. Drama, lies, unwilling to compromise,untrustworthy, no communication are things that to make a marriage lasts and if he wanted it to he would be doing the opposite and be stepping up to be a real dad. Right now he is mor like a guy in the house whether than a dad.

Sometimes you've to do what is right for you for your own piece of mind and right now this isn't. You put up with too much from this guy, I wouldn'e be left, and in the end you've to ask yourself is it worth it? What exactly is he doing to help the household besides providing money?

Think about it, I mean really think about. My fiancé cooks, clean, help out with the kids, pamper me, and manage a full time job. This is how it should be with you. Your husband should be giving you a helping hand.

Going to go for now but I'll be back.

I had some pretty harsh things to say until i continued to read all of this thread, and can see how really overwhelmed you are, and how alone you are with so much to do. Your also pretty tough, you just need the right support with you, and sorry the hubby ain't it.

If you have no family to count on, social services, or your local human resource agency, may provide that back up to you.

Your husband has to work for sure, but if not for you, these children of his would have nothing at all, so I will applaud your efforts, and hope for the best for you. Now get some help and support.

Yes, to top it all off ALL of my family is out of state. All of the kid's family is out of state. I do have very good friends who are absolutely wonderful with not only me but the kids. They have the patience of Job. I am very lucky to have them and after reading all of what I wrote and what other people have written I have realized that some of my views could be misconstrewed to look like I am a heartless bitty, but I think that what we need can be accomplished now.

It doesn't sems like your husband cares about you nor his kids let alone yours. He might just be keeping you around to be a caregiver while he does nothing.

He cheated, move in ex girlfriends, left you, plotting to do the same with another ex, don't you think deserve better. Drama, lies, unwilling to compromise,untrustworthy, no communication are things that to make a marriage lasts and if he wanted it to he would be doing the opposite and be stepping up to be a real dad. Right now he is mor like a guy in the house whether than a dad.

Sometimes you've to do what is right for you for your own piece of mind and right now this isn't. You put up with to much from this guy, I wouldn'e be left, and in the end you've to ask yourself is it worth it? What exactly is he doing to help the household besides providing money?

Think about it, I mean really think about. My fiance cooks, clean, help out with the kids, pamper me, and manage a full time job. This is how it should be with you. Your husband should be giving you a helping hand.

Gonna go for now but I'll be back.

Believe me after all of this, things are GOING to change when he gets back. And if he doesn't like it he can stay gone at work or where ever he wants to go. I have realized that these kids DO need me because they don't have anyone else. I had a really good talk with Avery this morning and I realized that he thought that his mother had kept his older brother and only left him. I had not known that. I guess she gave him up after she gave up Avery. He really did think it was his fault that she left and my fault and my husband's fault. I told him that she left because she wanted to and that's what makes her a bad person, not him. I really think he understood me. I told him that every day he has to remind himself that he's a good kid and he can be good. And anytime he thinks of doing something bad he needs to remind himself of that. So far he's been very tolerable. There hasn't been any disruption in the house at all. I told my best friends here that they are going to have to help keep my morale up because I am sure there are going to be good days and bad days but I am going to keep going with or without my husband because I don't think now that I can send him back to live with his mother. Knowing that he's not going to be taken care of. I am getting Avery back in counselling on Monday. I told him he doesn't have to be scared of his counsellor or me and he doesn't have to worry about being left alone because he's not going to be. It was very constructive and very beneficial to both of us. And I think that I have a better understanding about how he feels and how he feels about his mother. He said he doesn't want to go back to her because, his words, "she is mean to me". I do know that little boys go through a period of a few years starting at about the age of five where they feel this bond with their mother's to the point that sometimes they can be jealous of their fathers. In a normal two parent household that is. I also realized that Avery is at the age where he should feel that bond with his mother, but how can he if she's nowhere around? It is very sad what she has done, but hopefully I can put my energy into working with him now instead of hating her. I am pretty sure that my husband will "jump on the wagon" once he realizes how serious I am. And my kids are going to have to stop looking at this like a way they are suffering and instead a way to be a role model to the younger kids.

Since our talk (see Liz28), Avery and Noah (my son) have made breakfast together AND now they have offered to clean their rooms. Avery has cleaned up his room and now he's helping with mine. I appreciate everyone's support on this. As crazy as I think it is to talk to strangers about my problems, it's really helped. I sent my husband an email that said we are keeping Avery and he's going to have to conform to being a husband and father first if it's going to work. Now I think it would be best to file for custody of Avery since there is no standing order on him because if his mother showed up out of the blue demanding him back and my husband is overseas, there's nothing that I can do about it. However, I don't think she cares enough to do that. And as sad as it seems, we are lucky she feels that way. I hope some day she realizes that the issue between her and my husband is about Avery, not about her feelings for my husband or her dislike for me.

Good for you! I knew his behavior was because of his mother and got that feeling right from the start of reading your thread. That's why I told you not to give up on him because you might be the one that makes a difference in his life. You might have to show him extra love and talk to him more.

You are an amazingly strong person and you'll be blessed for it. I never thought you was bitter from the start but knew you had a lot on your plate and knew getting it off your chest would help and after you gave more insight on your situation I was blow away.

If your leaves than let him but you do what you said your going do. It' good that you've dependable friends, lean on them and let them help because it takes a village to raise a child. But no matter what you do, stay strong. Be there for all your kids. Start family night with them and play games together. Let them help you out in the house by giving them chores. Watch movies together and talk to them. Let them talk you what's on their mind.

Good for you! I knew his behavior was because of his mother and got that feeling right from the start of reading your thread. That's why I told you not to give up on him because you might be the one that makes a difference in his life. You might have to show him extra love and talk to him more.

You are an amazingly strong person and you'll be blessed for it. I never thought you was bitter from the start but knew you had alot on your plate and knew getting it off your chest would help and after you gave more insight on your situation I was blow away.

If your leaves than let him but you do what you said your going do. It' good that you've dependable friends, lean on them and let them help because it takes a village to raise a child. But no matter what you do, stay strong. Be there for all your kids. Start family night with them and play games together. Let them help you out in the house by giving them chores. Watch movies together and talk to them. Let them talk you what's on their mind.

You know I had stopped talking to the kids because it seemed as though all that had to be said was dreadful news about one kid doing something to the other. I started to not want to hear what they had to say and I guess it did a great part in blocking the avenue of them coming to me with their needs. My friends have six kids, three of hers and three of his, kind of like the Brady Bunch but more boys then girls. They are so great, and great together. Her husband had died mysteriously about four years ago and his wife ran off with another man. They were neighbors who only after getting through their problems fell in love. It's one of those great loves that spills over onto everyone around them. But their ability to handle all of those kids marvels me. AND THEY WANT MORE!! It's crazy to me but even watching them both go through things before they got together, their relationship and their family couldn't be more right. I hope that I have the ability to transform ours into such a wonderful thing.

You know I had stopped talking to the kids because it seemed as though all that had to be said was dreadful news about one kid doing something to the other. I started to not want to hear what they had to say and I guess it did a great part in blocking the avenue of them coming to me with their needs. My friends have six kids, three of hers and three of his, kind of like the Brady Bunch but more boys then girls. They are so great, and great together. Her husband had died mysteriously about four years ago and his wife ran off with another man. They were neighbors who only after getting through their problems fell in love. It's one of those great loves that spills over onto everyone around them. But their ability to handle all of those kids marvels me. AND THEY WANT MORE!!! It's crazy to me but even watching them both go through things before they got together, their relationship and their family couldn't be more right. I hope that I have the ability to transform ours into such a wonderful thing.

The trick to transforming something into a "wonderful thing" is to see the just how wonderful it already is. Look byond the dust, scuffs, grim, wear, and tear to the reality within.
"Everything has its beauty but not everyone sees it."- Confucius

"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in getting up every time we do."- Confucius

"Only that in you which is me can hear what I'm saying." ~Baba Ram Dass (interesting this one is... )

"The scars you can't see are the hardest to heal." ~Astrid Alauda

Something I often turn to in my deepest hours of need... I don't like sharing this so openly, but you need it more then I.
"Love is my ally, Life is my goal,
And respect is my accomplishment." - Ben T. S. (me)
It came to me one night when I was considering suicide. I've lived by it ever since, and I'm still her 10 years later, so it must be good for something.

Pecae be with you, and your younglings. :)

P.S. Try reading the self help book, "the brain that changes it'sself." It opened my eyes to just how human we truly are. Also I would advise, if I haven't already, a MRI, and such. Talk to Psychiatrists, and Psychologists.

The trick to transforming something into a "wonderful thing" is to see the just how wonderful it already is. Look byond the dust, scuffs, grim, wear, and tear to the reality within.
"Everything has its beauty but not everyone sees it."- Confucius

"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in getting up every time we do."- Confucius

"Only that in you which is me can hear what I'm saying." ~Baba Ram Dass (interesting this one is...)

"The scars you can't see are the hardest to heal." ~Astrid Alauda

Something i often turn to in my deepest hours of need... I don't like sharing this so openly, but you need it more then I.
"Love is my ally, Life is my goal,
And respect is my accomplishment." - Ben T. S. (me)
It came to me one night when i was considering suicide. I've lived by it ever since, and i'm still her 10 years later, so it must be good for something.

Pecae be with you, and your younglings. :)

P.S. Try reading the self help book, "the brain that changes it'sself." It opened my eyes to just how human we truly are. Also I would advise, if i havent already, a MRI, and such. Talk to Psychiatrists, and Psychologists.

You know I found the hardest part of recovering from my attempted suicide was forgiving myself for being so selfish. I too had tried to kill myself. I have been sexually assaulted and instead of comfort in my (ex) husband I found that he blamed me. He threw me and my kids out in the street for it. I wanted to die so much because I thought then that it really had to have been my fault for him to have reacted that way. But it wasn't my fault and that has been almost seven years ago. I still have relapses at times blaming myself for not only standing up to the man that assaulted me but also for being stupid enough to want to leave my children alone in this world.

I must confess Nestorian that after you mention you was logging out to watch Max Payne I rented that movie the same day. I forgot about that movie but I love the video game. I don't know about you but the movie was a little disappointing. I thought it would have been more action pack but I love Markey Mark so I wasn't that disappointed.

Stac, that's why I believe in that saying "what don't kill you only makes you stronger". Wouldn't you agree?

Did you e-mail your husband what you had to say yet?

I must confess Nestorian that after you mention you was logging out to watch Max Payne I rented that movie the same day. I forgot about that movie but I love the video game. I don't know about you but the movie was a little disappointing. I thought it would have been more action pack but I love Markey Mark so I wasn't that disappointed.

Stac, that's why I believe in that saying "what don't kill you only makes you stronger". Wouldn't you agree?

Did you e-mail your husband what you had to say yet?

Yes I did and he was surprisingly excited that there was going to be some changes. He said he's ready. We'll see in two weeks when he gets back from China.

You know I found the hardest part of recovering from my attempted suicide was forgiving myself for being so selfish. I too had tried to kill myself. I have been sexually assualted and instead of comfort in my (ex) husband I found that he blamed me. He threw me and my kids out in the street for it. I wanted to die so much because I thought then that it really had to have been my fault for him to have reacted that way. But it wasn't my fault and that has been almost seven years ago. I still have relapses at times blaming myself for not only standing up to the man that assaulted me but also for being stupid enough to want to leave my children alone in this world.

Suicide is selfish, but that is not a conscious choice. Try to imagining a really bright, but not too bright, mesmorising light hanging in front of you, and you are darwn to it. Depression sucks you down, because we can not often get our minds off the pain, suffering, fear, doubt, and hoplessness. The light is depression, and there is no one else around to stop you on account that they too are far to selfish to realise what is happening. See, they are focused on the same things, but in a different way. I would argue that they who complain that the government is this or that, or drink too much and loose their car, or tell tails of their wild weekends, or talk about their "friends" behind their back, or judge some one who is dealing with depression for feeling that there is no other way but death. Because they are doing the same thing, only their minds are not as affected by it, I beieve it's because they have a "F*** you attitude". You know what I mean, they get mad and angery hurting those around them so that they don't have to feel misserable alone. This too is a matter of the subconsious mind.

Any who, Do not blam yourself for something you survived, where as those who would judge you for it, probably would be dead if they were in your "shoes". And if you don't know why you are depressed, no we know the basics for it but I mean if you don't know of a mental illness, conditioned respons, or what ever that is causing it. Then how can you deal with it, or over come it? “Named must your fear be before banish it you can.” - Yoda Be not proud for it often leads to ignorance, but be saticfied to have over come that obsticle. That helps me forgive myself.

As for you sexual abuse, I'm deeply pained that you were subjected to such an experience. I have not really bin abused in such, but I know many girls who have. I always comfort them as best as I can. I only wish I could do more.

Peace be with you.

I totally understand what you are saying. It terrible that as women we have so much control. We can ruin a man's life. My husband's in the military and we have heard of women stick holes in condoms so that the men can get them pregnant. Women need to look at it all around. I really feel that your husband should have had the opportunity to make a choice if he wanted the baby or not. Some women try to use the babies as a trap. If I were you I would try my hardest to get the child back with her mother. The reason she went looking for you is because she wanted someone else to take care of her.