Today's Gospel (Mk 3:7-12): Jesus and His disciples withdrew to the lakeside and a large crowd from Galilee followed Him. A great number of people also came from Judea, Jerusalem, Idumea, Transjordan and from the region of Tyre and Sidon, for they had heard of all that He was doing. Because of the crowd, Jesus told His disciples to have a boat ready for Him, to prevent the people from crushing Him. He healed so many that all who had diseases kept pressing towards Him to touch Him. Even the people who had evil spirits, whenever they saw Him, would fall down before Him and cry out, «You are the Son of God». But He warned them sternly not to tell anyone who he was.

Commentary: Fr. Melcior Querol I Solà (Ribes de Freser-Girona, Catalonia)

«A great number of people also came from Judea, Jerusalem, Idumea, Transjordan and from the region of Tyre and Sidon»

Today, the baptism by John in the Jordan still recent, we should all remember the kind of conversion of our baptism. We have all been baptized into one Lord, into one only faith, «For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body» (1Co 12:13). Here we have the ideal of unity: to form a single body, to be a single unity in Christ, so that the world may believe.

In today's Gospel we see that «A large crowd from Galilee followed him» and also «a great number of people» coming from other places (cf. Mk 3:7-8) are surrounding the Lord. And He paid heed to all procuring, without exception, their good. We have to keep this in mind during the Octave of Prayer for Christian Unity.

Let us realize how, throughout centuries, we Christians have divided ourselves into Catholics, Orthodox, Anglicans, Lutherans and a long etc. of Christian confessions. A historic sin against one of the essential points of our Church: its unity.

But, let us face today's eclesial reality. Our bishopric's, our parish's, our Christian group’s. Are we really one only thing? Is our type of unity really a motive for conversion of those away from the Church? «that all of them may be one, … so that the world may believe» (Jn 17:21), pleaded Jesus to the Father. This is our challenge. That pagans all over may see a group of believers relate one another, gathering by the Holy Spirit, under the Church of Christ: all the believers were one in heart and mind. (cf. Acts 4:32-34).

Let us remember that, as a fruit of the Eucharist, the unity of the Assembly is to manifest itself along with the union with Jesus of each one of us, as we are fed by the same Bread to be a one and only body. Therefore, what the sacraments stand for, and the grace therein instilled, demand from us gestures of communion towards all others. Our conversion is to the Trinity unit (which is a gift coming from Heaven) and our sanctified task cannot avert the gestures of communion, of understanding, of welcome and forgiveness towards our brothers.
So please...
:confused:What are your feelings, belief and thoughts about Christian unity? :confused:
:)Peace and kindness,:)
Fred (arcura)

Thank you for posting this Fred!
You may not get many replies but surely this will make people think!
God bless you!
The unity of The Church has not been accomplished... yet!We are living in the time of ''the altars'', waiting for ''the Temple''!Before the Temple ,there were many altars and the sacrificies that people made at those altars were acceptable.Three altars were the most important.The tabernacle,the threshning floor and the Ark.
I have heard this theory saying that the altar of the tabernacle is today's Catholic and Orthodox Church and the threshning floor is the Evangelical Church and the Ark is today's Pentecostal Church.Those three are the most important ''altars'' but still... no Temple!
And remember how The Temple was built!Pieces of it were made in many different places,then brought together in Jerusalem and matched without a single hammmer's sound being heard!
Now we , today , are those pieces being made in many different places(doctrines) and we will be called one day altogether to be matched in an exraordinary way and the Temple , THE CHURCH ,will be alive!!

Adam
I had not ever heard that before.
It is a very interesting analogy.
It makes one ponder.
Of course the major prophesy concerning the return of Christ Jesus is that the third temple must be rebuilt.
Efforts to do that have been in the works for several years with the Israelites gathering funds for that effort.
I hope that the beginning of construction begins soon, but I doubt that it will; for peace in the middle-east would need to be achieved and I fear that is a long way off.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

As I so often seem to be, I am reminded of what St. Ignatius of Antioch said: Nothing can ever justify schism. Christ's Body is one, and we are not to dismember it. Sadly, that is what has happened, to our eternal shame.

Let us realize how, throughout centuries, we Christians have divided ourselves into Catholics, Orthodox, Anglicans, Lutherans and a long etc. of Christian confessions. A historic sin against one of the essential points of our Church: its unity.

But, let us face today's eclesial reality. Our bishopric's, our parish's, our Christian group's. Are we really one only thing? Is our type of unity really a motive for conversion of those away from the Church? «that all of them may be one, … so that the world may believe» (Jn 17:21), pleaded Jesus to the Father.
Peace and kindness,:)
Fred (arcura)

So true is the reality of man's flesh of sin on this earth. Yet again in the simplicity of Christ we can find our way. (John 14:6) And in Christ we are unity!

Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

Matthew 11:26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.

Matthew 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all [ye] that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Matthew 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

Matthew 11:30 For my yoke [is] easy, and my burden is light.

Walk in Christ.... And by mouth proclaim His worthyness... And love Christ as He loved us....

Gal 5:5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

Gal 5:13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.

Gal 5:15 This I say then, [U]Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

There is no law against walking in the Spirit.

Gal 5:22-25 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Gal 5:26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.


Use your liberty as a servant of God, doing His will...to sever one another by love

1 Peter 2:15-16 For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men: As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God.

sndbay,
Thanks for that.
Fred

What are your feelings, belief and thoughts about Christian unity?


It depends upon what you mean by "Christian unity". If you mean unity amongst all who profess to be Christians or all denominations, I would disagree because not all who profess to be Christian truly are (see Matthew 7), and because scripture does not call for such unity. In fact the Apostle Paul disagree explicitly:

1 Cor 11:18-20
18 For first of all, when you come together as a church, I hear that there are divisions among you, and in part I believe it. 19 For there must also be factions among you, that those who are approved may be recognized among you.
NKJV

As for unity amongst all denominations, again scripture says nothing about that.

Regarding unity amongst all believers, that has already taken place - those who are believers are united through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

Tj3.
Thanks for your opinion.
Fred

Tj3.
Thanks for your opinion.
Fred

Fred, you give me too much credit. What I posted is scripture is what scripture says - I appreciate your kind comments but my opinion would never be equal to scripture.

Tj3,
I was commenting on t the opinion you stated, not scripture.
You said, "It depends upon what you mean by "Christian unity". If you mean unity amongst all who profess to be Christians or all denominations, I would disagree because not all who profess to be Christian truly are (see Matthew 7), and because scripture does not call for such unity. In fact the Apostle Paul disagree explicitly:"
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Fred,

Perhaps I am confused. I understood your OP to address ecclesial unity, and I understood the quote from Scripture, "that all of them may be one, … so that the world may believe" (Jn 17:21), to speak to this. It is for this reason that I took Tj3's post to be off-topic, as it either does not address ecclesial unity or seems to suggest that ecclesial unity is not important (it's hard to tell which). It was my sense, from your question, that you were taking it more or less for granted that ecclesial unity is important, and that Scripture tells us that it is (a reasonable view, which I share). Please correct me if I have misunderstood.

Thanks.

It is for this reason that I took Tj3's post to be off-topic, as it either does not address ecclesial unity or seems to suggest that ecclesial unity is not important (it's hard to tell which).

I did address all forms of unity. Fred spoke to the questions regarding denominations, which I also addressed:

"As for unity amongst all denominations, again scripture says nothing about that."

Akoue,
I hoped that I had posted it in the broadest general terms so that people could take it as they personally saw it. There are or can be several so-called types or sorts on unity. I was interested in seeing how various people took it and or understood it.
Tj3's view is well know to me after years of being on the same boards with him.
It is but one view.
Your view is of great and important interest.
I'm interested in all the views on that.
Peace and kindness,

Thank you, Fred. I appreciate the clarification.

Akoue,
What I was hoping for was answers that indicated a desire for all Christians to strive for unity and how they feel or think it could be done.
The view that we are all united via the Holy Spirit being in us seems to settle the unity question so there is no need for Christians to work for a different (that is personal) unity with all others.
I most certainly am not interested in judgmental disunity that so and so group is not Christian for some selected reasons for I am of the opinion that Jesus is the Judge of that.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Thanks again, Fred. That is very helpful.

It seems to me that central to any discussion of unity is the notion of communion: The communion of churches (ecclesial communion), Eucharistic communion, and the communion of saints.

The communion of churches is vital since we are to worship as one, as a single community of the faithful lifting our voices in praise together, in harmony, in a single voice.

It is in Eucharistic communion that we become one body with Christ and so become one body of worshippers. We are instructed to participate in Christ's Body and Blood in the Bread of Life Discourse of the fourth Gospel, and without this communion there can be no other since Christ is the source and summit of unity. Without Eucharistic communion, I cannot see how ecclesial unity is possible.

The communion of saints: We who are living are one with those who have served God faithfully through the ages. "We join in their unending hymn of praise."

As I see it, then, there cannot be unity without communion, and there cannot be communion without the Body and Blood of Christ. Participation in the Mystical Body of Christ cannot be divorced from participation in the Body (flesh) and Blood of Christ in the Eucharist.

Until modern times, only Gnostics ever thought otherwise.

Eph 4:1-4
4:1 I, therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you to walk worthy of the calling with which you were called, 2 with all lowliness and gentleness, with longsuffering, bearing with one another in love, 3 endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
NKJV

Akoue,
Yes that is true, but I think that there can be other forms of unity.
For instance all Christians standing together in opposition to those who want to severely minimalise or obliterate that faith.
I would dance and shout for joy if all Christians fought legalized abortion and same sex marriage. That is another of the unities I pray for.
Another form of unity would be that the various denominations quit their bigoted attack on others not of their beliefs but who do love and try to follow Jesus.
For me any friend of Jesus is a friend of mine.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Fred,

There are those who can say that they are friends of Jesus and yet not be Christians. Paul spoke of this:

2 Cor 11:3-4
4 For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted--you may well put up with it!
NKJV

Clearly Paul is not supporting unity in the faith with these people or churches.

Tj3
As I said,
A friend of Jesus is a friend of mine.
I'll pick my own friends, thank you.
I'll not toss anyone who loves Jesus away.
You can do so as you apparently want to.
Fred

Tj3
As I said,
A friend of Jesus is a friend of mine.
I'll pick my own friends, thank you.
I'll not toss anyone who loves Jesus away.
You can do so as you apparently want to.
Fred

Fred,

I said nothing of the sort. It is not appropriate to mis-represent what others say.

Tom

And such the reason there is not Christian unity,

Unity in Christ is to be yoked to Him. Never permitting the mind to be beguilded from the simplicity of Christ. In Christ we can find our way. (John 14:6) And in Christ one is united with Him ! (Romans 8:39)

In the Spirit of Unity...Gal 5:22-25
To love all men, and to be a servant at the will of God even to the wisked. (1 Peter 2:17-18) Should you suffer in that attempt of kindness, faithfulness, and goodness, do so patiently.... knowing that it is acceptable with God. (1 Peter 2:20)

Still Remember... discern from what is corrupt and use causion not to yoke yourself to evil, which causes unequal yoke.. Separate yourself from such.. ( 2 Coringthians 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?)

Question?

2 Corinthians 6: 16-18 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in [them]; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean [thing]; and I will receive you, And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

It is evil that separates the denominations, one from another. The evil that tempts the mind from the simplicity of Christ...

Should they preach The Word, should they open the door to Christ ...

All must overcome.. Revelation 3:22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

sndbay,
Thanks for your opinion on that.
Fred

There are some who take the view that when the NT speaks of unity it is speaking only of spiritual, and not of ecclesial, unity. This strikes me as a very selective way of reading Scripture, one which is not at all well-motivated or supported.

At Jn.10.16 Jesus says that there is one flock with one shepherd. I think all can agree that the one shepherd is Christ, but I see no reason to introduce into the verse a distinction which it does not itself make, i.e. between spiritual and ecclesial unity.

Eph.4.4-5 speaks of one hope, one faith, one Lord, and one baptism, and at 1Cor.10.17 Paul connects this unity with the Eucharist. Why, then, should anyone prise thema apart?

It is difficult for me to imagine anyone denying the importance of spiritual union. What strikes me as more than a little peculiar is the attempt to contrast this with ecclesial unity, as though the two do not go hand in hand.

At Jn.10.16 Jesus says that there is one flock with one shepherd. I think all can agree that the one shepherd is Christ, but I see no reason to introduce into the verse a distinction which it does not itself make, i.e., between spiritual and ecclesial unity.

Eph.4.4-5 speaks of one hope, one faith, one Lord, and one baptism, and at 1Cor.10.17 Paul connects this unity with the Eucharist. Why, then, should anyone prise thema apart?

We could get into the question regarding the linkages between baptism, communion and the church, but I believe that would take us off topic rather quickly and we have discussed that before.

The key point here is that not everyone in a pew is saved, and not all churches are following the one true God. In such cases, it would be necessary for a Christian church to be in concert with that which is not of Christ. We find nothing in scripture which says that we should be unequally yoked or united with that which is not of Christ. We find a great deal in scripture which speaks of dividing with those who do not hold to the doctrine of Christ. Where is there anything in scripture which says that we should compromise Biblical doctrine for the sake of unity?

Where is there anything in scripture which says that we should compromise Biblical doctrine for the sake of unity?

Why suppose we would have to?

Duplicate

Why suppose we would have to?

Do you believe in unity between churches which are Christian and those who have turned away from Christian teachings? I was once in a church where they prayed to a pagan god. Would you recommend that your church unite with that church or similar churches?

Originally Posted by Tj3 View Post
Where is there anything in scripture which says that we should compromise Biblical doctrine for the sake of unity?
Who or what are you referring to that does that?
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Originally Posted by Tj3 View Post
Where is there anything in scripture which says that we should compromise Biblical doctrine for the sake of unity?
Who or what are you referring to that does that?
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Fred,

We are discussing whether we should - we are not trying to string anyone up at this time. But an alternate question for consideration - is it even possible to have unity in the name of Christ between a two churches, one which denies the essentials of the Christian faith, without compromising the witness of the church which remains sound?

Tj3,
As I said in another post here I believe that there are several forms or kinds of unity.
Since there are over 30,000 denominations and still that number is growing I think that full unity is impossible particularly with those who not only teach their interpretation of scripture but also attack or misrepresent other denominations rather than try to get along.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Tj3,
As I said in another post here I believe that there are several forms or kinds of unity.
Since there are over 30,000 denominations and still that number is growing I think that full unity is impossible particularly with those who not only teach their interpretation of scripture but also attack or misrepresent other denominations rather than try to get along.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

So you do not believe that unity between churches is always possible. I agree.

That was my point.

Who or what are you referring to that does that?
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Fred, I feel the who and what are men with prideful ways. Those who boost of their own righteousness rather then being humble as a servant of God. Those who think they can role act as God, or commit idolatry by showing admiration to anything or anyone other then Christ.

To yoke yourself to Christ is knowing He alone can be praised and honored. That nothing or anyone comes unto the Father except by Christ. Faith without sight, meaning faith in knowing The Holy Spirit is with us, and we need nothing more in our presence.

Confessing that we "Love Christ" without showing any shame in that confession of love, is a work of righteosuness. And belief in His worthyness to wash our sins away when we repent is Faith in Him alone. (This is the Faith and Righteousness combined) there is no other way to the Father.Amen

Every man has the decision to make in whether to follow Christ or not.... That is where unity is found...

sndbay,
Thanks for your clarification on that.
Fred

The only unity that matters is spiritual, not earthly or mental.
Jesus prayed that His followers would become one as He and the Father are one. That is spiritual unity and has absolutely no connection with organization or denomination.

That said, some denominations hold closer to written scripture than others, and that becomes a bone of contention that will never be resolved until/unless everyone agrees on what the authoritative source of God's revelation is.

The non-Catholics say the Bible (if they believe in ANY authority beyond their own intellect), whereas the Catholics say the Pope trumps the Bible in any disagreement.

That gap will never be bridged.

galveston
Thanks for your opinion on that.
I find this statement of yours interesting.
"whereas the Catholics say the Pope trumps the Bible in any disagreement."
From where did you get that idea?
I as a Catholic have never said that or have I heard any others say it.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Judge not the hearts of man... For God knows those who hold the seal ..

The foundation holds the seal.. And they name Christ the Rock, and willing depart from iniquity!

2 Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Yet we realize in the great House of God.. there are both some that dishonour and some that hold the seal in honour.

2 Ti 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.

Discern and purge from dishonour to do righteousness in works

2 Ti 2:21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, [and] prepared unto every good work.


Call on Christ without shame, for it is righteous to do so!!!

2 Ti 2:22 Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.

As Peter and the apostles said: Acts 5: 29 Then Peter and the [other] apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

Psalms 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.

~Unity in Christ

sndbay,
Thanks much for that.
Fred