Hello! Thank you for responding!

I am having problems getting hot water to my kitchen sink (takes over 1 minute) and
I need to know if my water heater is on the same level as my kitchen sink, can I still get a Hot Water Convection Loop to work? Is there a trick of the trade? Or can I not get a Hot Water Convection Loop to work with my hot water heater on the same level as the sink?

I am aware pumps (not an option) and also of the Hot Water Lobster but was hoping to not have to purchase the Lobster if there was a way to get it to work on the same level.

Again Thank You In Advance!
Your time and knowledge is GREATLY appreciated!

If your water heater and sink are one the same floor it is possible to put in a convection cirulation system if you can run a hot water line in the attic and get it down in the wall to the sink water lines. The hot water would be supplied through the line in the attic and the line under the floor would become the return line. The return line would connect to the water heater at the point that the drain faucet comes out of the water heater.

The line in the attic should be gradually graded upward from the water heater to the point that it drops down to the sink. Then be connected to the hot water line that is already there.

If you live in a cold climate make sure that the line in the attic is well insulated.

There are 3 options you can utilize for your hot water delivery problem to your kitchen sink faucet:

1. Conventional hot water circulating pump with return loop to the water heater.
2. Install LAING retrofit pump under your kitchens sink. It will draw hot water until water reaches 96 degrees F. Then it will stop. Process repeats as hot water in the pipes cools down to certain temperature.
3. Install small, electric, Point of Use, hot water heater under your sink. These heaters may be 2, 4, or 6 gln units.Feed it with hot water to cold water inlet. Connect hot water outlet from the heater to your faucet.

No matter which approach you select, all three will solve your present problem.

There are 3 options you can utilize for your hot water delivery problem to your kitchen sink faucet:

1. Conventional hot water circulating pump with return loop to the water heater.
2. Install LAING retrofit pump under your kitchens sink. It will draw hot water until water reaches 96 degrees F. Then it will stop. Process repeats as hot water in the pipes cools down to certain temperature.
3. Install small, electric, Point of Use, hot water heater under your sink. These heaters may be 2, 4, or 6 gln units.Feed it with hot water to cold water inlet. Connect hot water outlet from the heater to your faucet.

No matter which approach you select, all three will solve your present problem.

As I said in my previous post, I am not interested in recirculating pumps at all, noise and non effiecient being my main concerns.
Not interested in the hot water heat at the point either asn I had one of those in a concession trailer and hated it.
From all three options ot offfered, they are also pricey. The Hot Water Lobster does what ll three of these do with no noise, no electricity, and no enegy consumption and it casts 50% of a pump.. The Hot Water lobster is my last resort. I really want to try to run an Hot Water Convection System if possible as that is the overall best choice.


If your water heater and sink are one the same floor it is possible to put in a convection cirulation system if you can run a hot water line in the attic and get it down in the wall to the sink water lines. The hot water would be supplied through the line in the attic and the line under the floor would become the return line. The return line would connect to the water heater at the point that the drain faucet comes out of the water heater.

The line in the attic should be gradually graded upward from the water heater to the point that it drops down to the sink. Then be connected to the hot water line that is already there.

If you live in a cold climate make sure that the line in the attic is well insulated.

Hey Thank You! This may just be an option for me asI think I can geta hot water line into my attic. And I know to insulate the my hot water lines up to the last 15 feet and then leave bare. I may try this in the next week and post back.

However if anyone else has a NON PUMsP OR NO SMALL HOT WATER HEATER AT THE SINK option please post and let me know your thoughts.

There is a pump option that is efficient because:

1. Pump is activated by a button (e.g. kitchen)
2. Pump is activated by a motion sensor (e.g. bathroom)

Thus it does not waste electricity, nor is inefficient. Just runs for a few minutes on demand.

At some point I plan to install one. Initially I am going to try using a wireless button system of my own choosing. The company doesn't offer this option.

If your water heater and sink are one the same floor it is possible to put in a convection cirulation system if you can run a hot water line in the attic and get it down in the wall to the sink water lines. The hot water would be supplied through the line in the attic and the line under the floor would become the return line. The return line would connect to the water heater at the point that the drain faucet comes out of the water heater.

The line in the attic should be gradually graded upward from the water heater to the point that it drops down to the sink. Then be connected to the hot water line that is already there.

If you live in a cold climate make sure that the line in the attic is well insulated. lSorry but not true!!

I had one of those in a concession trailer and hated it. Let me ask, are tou a carny? My early years were spent on a carnival read on; Gravity hot water loops work because the heated water, which is lighter, rises through the loop. As the water cools at the top of the loop, it falls and is thermo-syphoned back into the hot water heater. The water enters the bottom of the heater at the drain valve inlet. This flow of water is
Slow but constant.
For a gravity recirculating loop to work properly, the water heater must be located at the bottom of the loop. Ranch houses and two story houses with basements are perfect candidates. Houses built on slabs or that have hot water lines below the water heater must use a simple in-line recirculating pump.
All you need to complete your loop is a return water line from the far end of your hot water line. Locate the end of your existing hot water line. Cut into the pipe at this location. Install a tee fitting. One part of the tee will allow you to reconnect to the hot water line. The other portion of the tee fitting will be the start of the return loop back to the water heater.

Can anyone tell me why moy post to the question does not show up in the line up of post?

There is a pump option that is efficient because:

1. Pump is activated by a button (e.g. kitchen)
2. Pump is activated by a motion sensor (e.g. bathroom)

Thus it does not waste electricity, nor is inefficient. Just runs for a few minutes on demand.

At some point I plan to install one. Initially I am going to try using a wireless button system of my own choosing. The company doesn't offer this option.

An option to your pump is the here at HotWaterLobster.com I have been looking at one of these for a while now. No noise, no pump, it just works and no need for water heater to be on different level.

Can anyone tell me why moy post to the question does not show up in the line up of post?

I restored your post . Google disagrees with you and I have entered their answer in bold type.
For a gravity recirculating loop to work properly, the water heater must be located at the bottom of the loop. Ranch houses and two story houses with basements are perfect candidates. Houses built on slabs or that have hot water lines below the water heater must use a simple in-line recirculating pump. The asker has hot water lines under the slab and the heater's on the same level. Nuff said? Perhaps Lobster (see image) is the answer. Regards, Tom

As my post states I suggested that he put the return lines in the attic, and my drawing would not look anything like yours does. And the way I described will work, I know I am living with one that was installed by me over thirty years ago.

As my post states I suggested that he put the return lines in the attic, and my drawing would not look anything like yours does. And the way I described will work, I know I am living with one that was installed by me over thirty years ago.

And you disagree with Google? Tell me more a about this return line you insralled over thirty years ago. Was it in a two story house? Was a check valve involved? Where was it put? Did the house have a basement or was it on a slab?

my drawing would not look anything like yours does This was not my drawing. This was taken from the Lobster web site. Along with Googles response do you also challenge The Lobster solution as well? Inquiring minds want to know. Regards, tom

lSorry but not true!!
read on; Gravity hot water loops work because the heated water, which is lighter, rises through the loop. As the water cools at the top of the loop, it falls and is thermo-syphoned back into the hot water heater. The water enters the bottom of the heater at the drain valve inlet. This flow of water is
slow but constant.
For a gravity recirculating loop to work properly, the water heater must be located at the bottom of the loop. Ranch houses and two story houses with basements are perfect candidates. Houses built on slabs or that have hot water lines below the water heater must use a simple in-line recirculating pump.
All you need to complete your loop is a return water line from the far end of your hot water line. Locate the end of your existing hot water line. Cut into the pipe at this location. Install a tee fitting. One part of the tee will allow you to reconnect to the hot water line. The other portion of the tee fitting will be the start of the return loop back to the water heater.

Ok so I have 2 choices, 1. being the hot water lobster and 2. Installing a recirculating loop from my kitchen sink and then installing an in-line recirculating pump. My question is with the pump, does the pump have to be under the sink or can it be installed underneath my house near the water heater to cut down on noise? I have receptacle underneath my house already so electricity is not a problem. Are the pumps efficient or do you think the water lobster is going to be the better choice? The lobster is $175 the pumps are a bit more from what I am seeing. I have real concern for wasted electricity from the pump turning on and off and recirculating through the hot water lines and then cooling and having the hot water heater reheat the lines again, maybe I would be better off just leaving it as is, maybe it is just a catch 22 either have a higher water bill or higher electric bill, guess it really doesn't matter.

Your concerns is exactly why I recommended the d'mand system from Metlund. Advanced Conservation Technologies: D'MAND Hot Water Systems (http://www.gothotwater.com).

The system only circulates on DEMAND.

Push a button when your at the kitchen sink.

When you walk into a bathroom a motion sensor triggers the system. By the time your done doing your business, the water is hot.

The system is installed at the furthest fixture. It can work with a separate return loop.

Thermal convection (the rising of hot water and sinking of cooler water) used by the Hot water Lobster is generated within the hot water tank itself, and will work well with hot water tanks below the valve, on the same level as the valve as well as hot water tanks on levels above the valve, pipes in attics, pipes in crawls, pipes in slabs, manifold systems (PEX), expansion tanks, vertical runs over 5-stories and linear runs over 250 ft.

Hi DePaul and welcome to The Plumbing Page on AMHD.
You piggybacked on a 2 year old dead thread Before you post look in the upper left hand corner for the date.. However, your input is apprecated. Please continue to answer questions. Regards, n bTom