I have been with my girlfriend for two years, I have been engaged to her for approximately one year, and our wedding is approximately one year from now. Over the past two years, our relationship has been (for the most part) fantastic.

I love her with all my heart... and I am never shy to say so. I try and do my best for her... I support her financially and I am a true gentleman (doors opened, flowers delivered, napkins used, etc). We go to church together, we volunteer together, we pretty much live together. We both get along with each others families and are often described as the great couple. She is a very attractive woman and has been faithful.

We have never really had a 'yelling' fight, however, we have certainly argued. Personally, I hate fighting because it rarely solves anything... I prefer dialog and logical progressions of thought. She prefers raw emotion (which I understand to be a trait of many women).

So what is the problem? Every once in a while (spanning from a few days to a few months) she becomes depressed and hostile towards me (which leads to arguments).

In recent months, these arguments have become more intense, with her using such language as:


Sometimes I get the feeling that you're not the same person that I fell in love with.
I wish we had more in common... If we ever stop loving each other, I want to make sure we can at least get along.
Don't you ever think we might be making a mistake?


Our most recent argument (yesterday) used language such as:


Sometimes I feel like I am settling... I don't think I should have to settle.
I am unhappy and I am bored. Rather, I'm not as happy as what I think I could be.
You're not really in love with me... you're in love with being in love.


By admission, she is overly pessimistic and not a risk taker. She requires a back-up plan for everything. By the end of the argument, she came to the conclusion that she was upset because she did have a definitive answer of whether we were going to 'live happily ever after'. She says she is scared that we might stop loving each other in the future... and that she does not believe in divorce. She concluded that she had no guarantee that another man might make her more happy... and if she was going to be unhappy, she would much rather it be with someone that loves her (me).

By the end of the argument, she proposed that we forget that we had the conversation and go on living life like we had been (which is fantastic 85% of the time). She came over to my apartment... we ate some mac-and-cheese, watched TV, and went to bed.

Today, after the conversation has sunk in, I am distraught. It hurts very bad to think that someone that I love so much is unhappy, bored, and settling. I have poured my heart and soul into this relationship... I am a good guy and I am trying my very best.

What should I do?

Sounds like a typical relationship to me.

As a matter of fact, married couples who have been married for many years also sound like this.

I don't see a problem. Most men claim that their wives or girlfriends have PMS during these phases, and just let it ride.

You can never be 100% perfect and agreeable, so the percentage you have does have room for improvement.

What does she mean by 'having more in common'? It's OK to have different tastes in music, books, and hobbies, so where is the problem?

If you have not done so, try getting into comedy at least once a week - one about couples, like Jim, or another series like that. This might make things a little better as far as calming after a good laugh.

Wishing you all the best.
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/15/15_9_16.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZNxdm801YYDE) If you can laugh together, arguing together can be easier too.

Hi Legacy welcome to the forum. You seem to have a problem understanding where she is coming from and how she thinks. Well welcome to the man world of understanding women. You never will and you are not alone. There are hundreds of millions of us men who are in the same boat. I've been married 32 years and I still have no clue how the woman I married thinks sometimes. What should you do? Keep pouring your heart and soul into this as she will also and just try to understand that after she vented she felt better (but it leaves us confused, doesn't it?) Don't worry about fixing everything you can't, but you can accept her for who she is and keep being a good guy that tries his best. She will love you for it.

Does she know why she has these feelings that it won't work and she is scared? Coming from my experience in working with people, she has a different "life experience" than you do, for example... what were her role models' relationship like? Did her parents fall out of love at some point? Try asking her why she is scared now abuot something she has no control over later... ask more questions and see if you can help her figure it out.

I hear posts saying it may be normal, but I can see why it would be difficult to hear all this... it may be taken personal down the road... and you need a teammate... who believes in what she is a part of... so I hear the frustration. Ask more questions, and keep doing what you are doing...

Great post Dasy,
Tough one for me to comment on but I definitely agree that perhaps talking to her about these fears may help her to overcome them and you to understand them.
All of a sudden the problem has been averted.

But also you can't keep puring you heart and soul into something if you feel you aren't getting anything back. That isn't healthy.
BALANCE has been a word used here a lot lately and rightly so...
Is there BALANCE in your relationship.

I also like what Tal said though, you'll never fully understand hwy women think things. That's the fun part ;)

So maybe you are worrying a little too much. Maybe not! Communicate and you will find out!

I can see where you're coming from. I would also feel upset to know that my fiancé is feeling bored and believes they are settling. To me, these are red flags that she may not be committed. Like Chery said, every married couple goes through feelings of doubt and struggle. We don't always expect to feel as madly in love as the day we married but that's okay. The important part is that we behave as though we were. Eventually, those loving acts become real again and things are better than they ever were.

What concerns me is that she is saying that she is not as happy as she could be and that she wishes you two had more in common. That sounds to me like she is seriously doubting her decision to not only marry you, but to even be with you. One thing is cold feet, another is frozen-about-to-enter-cryogenic-mode. She goes as far as to try and tell you how you really feel about her, almost as though she is trying to convince you that you two are not a match. Comments like "if we ever stop loving each other, I want to make sure we can at least get along..." are not the most reassuring things that can come out of your soon to be bride's mouth. It's almost like she's planning on failing in this marriage.

Are you willing to live your life not knowing if one day you'll wake up and she'll be gone?

It's nice and good that 85% of the time your relationship is great, unfortunately, truly successful marriages don't survive too well on those kinds of ratios. I'm sure you love each other with all your heart, but I've said it before, love just isn't enough. It's the big "C" word, commitment.

Have a serious talk with her and ask her to be brutally honest. What she has told you is hard to hear, but she may be beating around the bush. After 2 years of being with this and knowing her the way you do, you'll know if she is being straight with you. If you are left with doubt about her intentions toward you, then you may need to walk away. It doesn't have to be permanent, but for your own well being, you may have to give her a little time and space to once and for all decide if its you she wants to spend the rest of her life with. I think after 2 years, she already knows the answer, and you do too, you just need to be honest with yourselves. Are you seeing what she's seeing? After being with someone that long, we are so happy to not be alone, to have someone to come home to and we look forward to a future together so much that our glasses tend to get a little tinted, rose colored if you will.

Maybe its time for a little re-evaluation of your life, what you expect from your spouse and what they expect from you. Then take a close look at your friend and decide if she has those qualities, and if you fit the bill for her as well.

Hmmm, I am going to have to disagree a little about not understanding how a woman thinks/feels for men or how a man thinks/feels for women. That is a learned dysfunction. I also believe it to be something of a cultural bias that men think and women feel. This is all about communication and very very few of us are taught by our families how to really do that, especially in the context of disappointment, disagreement or stress.

My husband and I come from such dysfunctional families we had to go to the professionals to learn basics, and let me tell you-- how to argue or fight was definitely one of them and not to be counted lightly either. How to agree to disagree without being disagreeable was another. How to feel safe and speak our truths was in there too. How to get to the bottom of it, which is often what was hanging it up, was another and a lot of what I see in this post -- not getting to the bottom of it. Humans are notorious for this and its not just the girls either, gentlemen.

What you can do about that is this: Find a soothing place where you both recognise you are on the same side and commit to having this really frank discussion. Then you each make as many "I" statements as possible about what you think it is. No cross talk, no solving, just sharing and listening, to each other and yourself too, digging and sharing. With as much suspension of judgement as possible.

You can't solve what you have not properly identified. And I am sensing you have not got it identified.

Momincali is right if you have questions now is the time to ask and get answers. COMMUNICATION-honest communications the basis for any healthy marriage.

Agreed. You can always understand HOW a women thinks... but sometimes you just might not be able in your own mind to comprehend WHY?
Communication will help you understand HOW and WHAT they are thinking and to a certain extent WHY... but the WHY bit still might never make complete sense to ones self!

But you are right Val in what you are saying!

Hmmm, I am going to have to disagree a little about not understanding how a woman thinks/feels for men or how a man thinks/feels for women. That is a learned dysfunction. I also believe it to be something of a cultural bias that men think and women feel. This is all about communication and very very few of us are taught by our families how to really do that, especially in the context of disappointment, disagreement or stress.

My husband and I come from such dysfunctional families we had to go to the professionals to learn basics, and let me tell you-- how to argue or fight was definately one of them and not to be counted lightly either. How to agree to disagree without being disagreeable was another. How to feel safe and speak our truths was in there too. How to get to the bottom of it, which is often what was hanging it up, was another and a lot of what I see in this post -- not getting to the bottom of it. Humans are notorious for this and its not just the girls either, gentlemen.

What you can do about that is this: Find a soothing place where you both recognise you are on the same side and commit to having this really frank discussion. Then you each make as many "I" statements as possible about what you think it is. No cross talk, no solving, just sharing and listening, to each other and yourself too, digging and sharing. With as much suspension of judgement as possible.

You can't solve what you have not properly identified. And I am sensing you have not got it identified.

Val you posted about the same time I did ,and for one when your young you really don't know anything about yourself you only have ideas. Most of us have had to learn on the fly so to speak and still we have no clue how things will work out. Its not easy to go through the stresses of life, but we deal with it and get better. The only way I can really explain it is to go for it 100%. There is always things that pop up and make us wonder if your doing right or not but it starts with the commitment to give all you got to a common goal. If you don't take the chance you will never know if it can happen or not.

You said she becomes "depressed and hostile", is depression part of it? I really agree you have to get to the bottom of why she feels this way. She needs to know we make our own life. If we choose to make a marriage work, chances are very good it will. Her feelings of doubt may not have a thing to do with you, she may be doubting herself and thinking a lot of negative thoughts.

Val is right, healthy communication is everything.

Us women can be a complicated breed, men don't always understand us.

Nothing is 100% perfect in the world.
So if you're close to that 100% keep hold of it and don't let it go!

PMS can do a lot to a women, it takes over her sometimes. In fact I've learnt that when I PMS I keep myself to myself and say the least to my husband because earlier in our relationship I used to question all of what your girlfriend is saying and doing and I knew it upset him and basically when I'm OK and not PMSing I used to feel so bad for speaking without thinking and basically with no meaning.
She he learnt to put up with me in those few days and I learnt to stay as quiet as possible!

PMS can be a serious problem. I was one of the fortunate ones that escaped those emotions. I had a friend that one week was going to divorce her husband and felt he was a lazy workaholic. A Lazy workaholic, ever meet one, well that is how distorted her feelings would become. A couple of weeks later she was in love again. He would call me and leave a message "it's bad".:) I have to tell you I immediately started laughing when she called him a lazy workaholic and could not seem to stop giggling. Luckily she does not get mad at me.

I would like to thank you all for you're feedback and advice, I truly appreciate it. I would like to provide you all with a little more information about my fiancé that might help...

Her parents began dating only a few months before her mother became pregnant (the notorious 'oops'). Shortly there after, a shotgun wedding took place. A few months later, my fiancé was born... both her parents were still in college and struggling financially. Apparently, their marriage struggled for many years (until they found religion). During the argument detailed in my original post, I used her parents as an example of a happy couple and she sharply replied, 'Oh yeah? If they were so happy why were in they on the verge of divorce six years ago? '. I think this might explain some of her fears.

Also, as I mentioned in the original post, she is an overly pessimistic person... she has been known to say things like 'If I expect the worst, I can never be let down... and if it turns out for the best, I can be pleasantly surprised'. For example, she is known for literally crying because she is certain that she is going to receive a 'C' in a class... she always receives an 'A'. You would think that all those A's (literally around 3.9 average) would convince her to eventually believe in herself... but it never happens.

Furthermore, she suffered from a rare disease when she was 16 years old that required her to take steroids (which caused a severe depression). She hated taking the depression medication because although she didn't feel so bad, she never really felt good. After an operation at 18, her disease was cured and she no longer has to take steroids. She is almost 21 now.

Does this change or reinforce any of the advice already provided? Does anyone have anything else to say? Once again, thank you all for your feedback.

Knowing what you know be patient and understanding, enjoy the challenge.

I guess my biggest concern would be the kind of life I would lead married to an incredibly pessimistic person like this. Being loving and all is nice, but the pessimism would wreak havoc and extremely strain the relationship, not to mention pass that pessimism on to our children.

I would seriously consider going to a really good family counselor for pre-marital counseling. If she's open, she will learn a lot about herself, about you, about what your life together would entail and you would learn the same. Going to an experienced therapist would answer a lot of questions she may have about why she feels this way and offer guidance on ways to eliminate those negative feelings. You can also find out of the steroids she once took are still causing certain emotions, like anxiety.

Her worries that her parents almost divorced 6 years ago are slightly justified, but only slightly. They stayed together through the roughest part (committment) and I'm assuming are still together now. That should show her what commitment is all about. Not just your feelings, but your obligations and what is best for the children.

You seem to truly love this gal and that's very fortunate for her. Based on your description of her, she seems like a lovely girl also. It almost seems as though she feels she is unloveable and unworthy. No one can convince her of that but herself. What a therapist may help her do is ask herself the right questions and force her to answer honestly. This may stir things in her she hasn't touched in quite a while. Is she open to seeing a therapist with you?

I agree with Momincali's suggestion about therapy but just for the record would like to gently offer that nobody forces anyone in therapy to do anything, including ask certain questions or get honest. Having been seen by professionals several times in my adult life, I can personally recommend it and see enough suffering taking place in the love of your life to think she would greatly benefit by it. So would you. Go with her and learn what we have learned -- how to get to the bottom of it and make the necessary changes in our thinking and behavior to live the happy, joyful lives we were intended to live. Everyone deserves a shot at that in my book.

I am certainly in favor of therapy, but I feel it might be a challenge to convince her. Communication is often a problem, especially with our love life. She does not believe such topics are supposed to be discussed, but rather such issues are supposed to be worked out naturally (without dialogue).

Personally, I see this approach as a complex and frustrating guessing game. It is difficult enough to convince her to talk to me about what's bothering her, let alone a stranger.

How would you suggest approaching the subject with her?

The real question is can YOU deal with this person. None of us is perfect so it always boils down to, do you accept her for better or worse. In the next year only you can answer this question. I think a sit down between you, your fiancée, and a trusted mentor could answer a few question and be good for you both. The more work you put in, the better the blessings. Your g/f is right about one thing though, There are no guarantees in life!

IHow would you suggest approaching the subject with her?
Say that you are the one who feels the need to go (make sure that is the truth too though--this is not about tricking or manipulating her, okay?) and ask for her help in this. Make it clear it's a "try-it-on" deal, as it should be. Let it be known that this is important to you and you don't want her to be left out in any way. The door only needs to be cracked a little.

I am certainly in favor of therapy, but I feel it might be a challenge to convince her. Communication is often a problem, especially with our love life. She does not believe such topics are supposed to be discussed, but rather such issues are supposed to be worked out naturally (without dialogue).

Personally, I see this approach as a complex and frustrating guessing game. It is difficult enough to convince her to talk to me about what's bothering her, let alone a stranger.

How would you suggest approaching the subject with her?
If communication is a problem you need to solve that soon as possible, as communication is a cornerstone of any healthy relationship. Val's idea is a good one. I hope you can convince her to go to counseling. No communication is a deal breaker in my opinion, and after 32 years of marriage, talking to each other honestly is a tremendous asset to a healthy marriage.

Yeah, She need sto be able to talk about things... what she is doing is dumping her thoughts on you, and expecting you to just sit there? That doesn't make sense and that isn't fair. You are not going to be able to hold all of her fears, wonder what she is going to do next, and not be able to talk about it rationally. That will be really difficult and unfair to both of you. Please reall ythink about the communication issue as being KEY in a relationship...