Have you guys ever think to it that our universe is one of billions of random universes? Like for example, maybe our universe is a marble. The marble is in a jar with millions of other marbles, which is like our marble, universes. Have you even think that, maybe the trillions of sands on the beaches are universes of different dimensions? Every dot of sand is another universe, with, their own laws and things like that? I know it sounds crazy, but I was just wondering so ferociously... Very mysterious... :rolleyes:

People have hypothesized exactly this. You can read about the "multiverse" here for example. Multiverse - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiverse)

Wikipedia talks both about science fiction and religious ideas and also the work of physicists.

This is exactly what happens at the end of men in black..

I am not sure I mentioned this. And the jar of marble is in a room of a family. Or, the beach where the sands is in a country of another earth, in a higher dimension.

It's like have you seen a magazine page where it shows a guy ripping a magazine with another guy in the magazine that the first guy is ripping, he too is ripping a magazine? It just goes on like that, each one ripping a magazine of a man that is too, ripping a magazine. This is what I am talking about...

I am not sure i mentioned this. And the jar of marble is in a room of a family. Or, the beach where the sands is in a country of another earth, in a higher dimension.

It's like have you seen a magazine page where it shows a guy ripping a magazine with another guy in the magazine that the first guy is ripping, he too is ripping a magazine? It just goes on like that, each one ripping a magazine of a man that is too, ripping a magazine. This is what i am talking about....

I personally think this is unlikely, even though it's a cool concept--universes within universes--because chemists and physicists who study molecules and atoms have shown what things are made of on a smaller scale and it doesn't appear to be more universes. On the other hand, subatomic physics is REALLY weird.

Watch this if you haven't already. :)
YouTube - Dr Quantum - Double Slit Experiment (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfPeprQ7oGc)

I love hearing all these opinions =)

I don't know about a universe within a universe, but one has to wonder what is on the other side of the border of our universe?

I can easilly imagine an endless vacuum of space and dark matter between universes. These universes, all expanding, yet trillion opon trillion opon trillion X10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,00 0,000,000, light year apart from one another, just an endess endless number of events happening.

SOMETHING has to be on the other side of the boundies of our universe!

What if one universe hit another?

What if it already has?

Nice speculation. But speculation only. We will never know, as we are part of this universe, with time and space as in our universe. So for us there is no outside of this universe. Also more dimensions are speculation. All we know we have for sure are height, width, depth, and time.

Nice speculation. But speculation only. We will never know, as we are part of this universe, with time and space as in our universe. So for us there is no outside of this universe. Also more dimensions are speculation. All we know we have for sure are height, width, depth, and time.

I'm not sure I agree with this. We can take predictions from theories that have multiple dimensions and test the ramifications in our 4 dimensions, that at least gives some credibility to extra dimensions, if it were to happen (I believe that the LHC will be able to test some of these theories).

I mean, we do the same thing with black holes. Nobody has seen a black hole, but we predict what we should observe if a black hole were there.

You guys all have great ideas. Maybe I should put this on discussion...

Okay, the vast spaces between universes comment makes me think of Doctor Who, the NEW series, "Army of Ghosts." I JUST watched it like, 2 days ago.

It's the same thing as to what we will see if we were to approach the speed of light.

Personally, I don't think our body could withstand such a speed and not be vaporized or something, but just to say we could survive in some sort of a space craft, what would it look like?

Also, I watched something on TV a while back, that apparently, some scientist thing there are "things" that CAN move faster than the speed of light.

I can't remember what it was, but it was something on the quantum level I'm sure.

Anyone know what I'm talking about?

Only thing that rings a bell to me that can defy the speed of light is whatever is involved with Quantum Entanglement. As a physical link, that is.

It's the same thing as to what we will see if we were to approach the speed of light.

Personally, I don't think our body could withstand such a speed and not be vaporized or something, but just to say we could survive in some sort of a space craft, what would it look like?

Also, I watched something on TV a while back, that apparently, some scientist thing there are "things" that CAN move faster than the speed of light.

I can't remember what it was, but it was something on the quantum level I'm sure.

Anyone know what I'm talking about?

Theoretically, tachyons can travel faster than the speed of light, but they're just theoretical at the moment, nobody has detected them.

Tachyon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tachyon) talks about them, but it's not an easy read! :)

Theoretically, as you approach the speed of light, all lengths contract to 0, so you can travel anywhere instantly. This is the idea behind the twin paradox, if you had a twin, and he travelled at the speed of light to somewhere 1 light year away and back, you would have seen him take 2 years for that journey, and you would be 2 years older. But for him it took no time at all, and he would be the same age as when he left.

Theoretically, tachyons can travel faster than the speed of light, but theyre just theoretical at the moment, nobody has detected them.

Tachyon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tachyon) talks about them, but it's not an easy read! :)

Theoretically, as you approach the speed of light, all lengths contract to 0, so you can travel anywhere instantly. This is the idea behind the twin paradox, if you had a twin, and he travelled at the speed of light to somewhere 1 lightyear away and back, you would have seen him take 2 years for that journey, and you would be 2 years older. But for him it took no time at all, and he would be the same age as when he left.


Would this fall into the same scenario as it is said time actually slows the faster one travels. So as one travels the speed of light, time all but stops?

It would go along with the "instant travel". Light leaves the sun, it takes eight minutes to reach earth, however if you caught a ride on one of those "light beams" (pardon my crude example) it would be instant?

I'm on the sun, my watch says 12:00, I ride the speed of light to earth, when I arrive, my watch still says 12:00, however on Earth it is 12:08. Is this how it works?

I don't even think that's a theory anymore, as it has been proven in GPS satillites which are traveling very fast around the Earth. (nowhere near the speed of light), but I watched a documentary where they said those satillites are programmed to calculate time so it stays accurate with Earth. Apparently, left unchecked, time on the satillites moves slighty slower than on Earth.

Not slow enough for us to notice. I think they said that the satillite may loose one second for every million or so years on earth, but it was enough to cause problems in computers which have to be dead on accurate.

Sort of like Horton Hears a Who! An amazing concept! But no, I don't think there are any other universes or other forms of life beyond our planet.

Would this fall into the same scenario as it is said time actually slows the faster one travels. So as one travels the speed of light, time all but stops?

It would go along with the "instant travel". Light leaves the sun, it takes eight minutes to reach earth, however if you caught a ride on one of those "light beams" (pardon my crude example) it would be instant?

I'm on the sun, my watch says 12:00, I ride the speed of light to earth, when I arrive, my watch still says 12:00, however on Earth it is 12:08. Is this how it works?

I don't even think that's a theory anymore, as it has been proven in GPS satillites which are traveling very fast around the Earth. (nowhere near the speed of light), but I watched a documentary where they said those satillites are programmed to calculate time so it stays accurate with Earth. Apparently, left unchecked, time on the satillites moves slighty slower than on Earth.

Not slow enough for us to notice. I think they said that the satillite may loose one second for every million or so years on earth, but it was enough to cause problems in computers which have to be dead on accurate.

Yes, that's exactly the same thing, length contracts and time slows. Someone watching you from Earth would not see the second hand on your clock move at all, even though they see it take you 8 minutes to get to them.

I'm not sure what you mean by "I don't even think that's a theory anymore". I think you misunderstand what a theory is (in the scientific sense). A theory is a framework of explanation that explains why the things that we observe are. We extend theories to say "if we look at this, then we should observe this phenomenon", and this allows us to test the accuracy of our theories. Theories are the highest held accomplishment of science, and nothing stops being a thoery unless it is replaced by a better (and different) theory.

I'm not sure what you mean by "I don't even think that's a theory anymore". I think you misunderstand what a theory is (in the scientific sense). A theory is a framework of explanation that explains why the things that we observe are. We extend theories to say "if we look at this, then we should observe this phenomenon", and this allows us to test the accuracy of our theories. Theories are the highest held accomplishment of science, and nothing stops being a thoery unless it is proven completely incorrect.


I stand corrected. I love this subject, even if my terminoligy leads something to be desired. :D

I came to site to ask the same question. But it's not really surprising that its here already.
Mine was specifically,, the origin of this big bang. So, the great mines did the math in reverse to bring it down to a massless point? That exploded? I simply want opinions.
(I have no kinds of superstitions in my head) But I think the whole sands on the beach thing is not without sanity. Who's is to say there are not a trillion universes on Earth in the sand? Or that we say that there are trillions in our fingernail?

In the words of Bill Mahre, WE JUST DON'T KNOW!

However I highly dought the Religious mumbo-Jumbo.

Any thoughts.

Yes, who know? Maybe every object on Earth is a universe in another dimension...

And what if, every object in another universe is another universe? And that the universe Earth is in is one of them?

I dont know about a universe within a universe, but one has to wonder what is on the other side of the border of our universe?

I can easilly imagine an endless vacuum of space and dark matter between universes. These universes, all expanding, yet trillion opon trillion opon trillion X10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,00 0,000,000, light year apart from one another, just an endess endless number of events happening.

SOMETHING has to be on the other side of the boundies of our universe!


We have seen the edge of the universe as we know it. What is beyond THAT? Even nothingness has to be something. A blank space is still,, space. Can it possibly end? Even nothing is something? Ouch, my brain hurts... What is infinity??
Answer that, you will become KING of the universe. I promise.

"SOMETHING HAS TO OUTSIDE OF THE BOUNDRIES OF THE UNIVERSE." Well put Andrew.

If that is not the biggest question we have, I don't know what is.

We have seen the edge of the universe as we know it. What is beyond THAT? Even nothingness has to be something. A blank space is still,,,, space. Can it possibly end? Even nothing is something? Ouch, my brain hurts...... What is infinity????
Answer that, you will become KING of the universe. I promise.

"SOMETHING HAS TO OUTSIDE OF THE BOUNDRIES OF THE UNIVERSE." Well put Andrew.

If that is not the biggest question we have, I don't know what is.

Something else I have to throw in. Religious folks will have a simple answer. "It's God." That's a cop out. I desire a scientific explanation. Which may never come,, however, I hope death treats us kindly and we will see the answer upon death. Our response might be,, "It was so simple all along." Either that, or we will simply rot and become smelly.

I love this subject!! Let's keep it going ladies and gentleman. :) Jim

It's the same thing as to what we will see if we were to approach the speed of light.

Personally, I don't think our body could withstand such a speed and not be vaporized or something, but just to say we could survive in some sort of a space craft, what would it look like?

Also, I watched something on TV a while back, that apparently, some scientist thing there are "things" that CAN move faster than the speed of light.

I can't remember what it was, but it was something on the quantum level I'm sure.

Anyone know what I'm talking about?

As far as I know, our best shot at surpassing the speed of light is, ANTI-MATTER. Please don't ask me to explain it, but many people are studying this. It's human nature to explore. Unfortunately, the playground is too vast for our small minds. Not to be insulting, but what the hell... Most of the people on this small planet think there a guy who lives in the clouds. Gimme a break.

We have seen the edge of the universe as we know it. What is beyond THAT? Even nothingness has to be something. A blank space is still,,,, space. Can it possibly end? Even nothing is something? Ouch, my brain hurts...... What is infinity????
Answer that, you will become KING of the universe. I promise.

"SOMETHING HAS TO OUTSIDE OF THE BOUNDRIES OF THE UNIVERSE." Well put Andrew.

If that is not the biggest question we have, I don't know what is.

Something else to consider:

I saw on a documentary once that we are actually bound by the mighty speed limit of light itself as to what we can see in our own universe. The physicist on the program explained it better than I can, in fact, I just tried to and got "tounge tied" so I had to delete it all.

But it has something to do with light rays that are so far away that the inhabitants of Earth will never see them.

"Have you guys ever think to it that our universe is one of billions of random universes?"

There is no "outside" for our universe, due to space-time.
So we can only know of the universe we live in.
All the rest is useless speculation.

"Have you guys ever think to it that our universe is one of billions of random universes?"

There is no "outside" for our universe, due to space-time.
So we can only know of the universe we live in.
All the rest is useless speculation.


Speculation yes, useless no. Humankinds curisosity of what lay out of our reach is what has driven most of the technologies we have today.

Will we ever see beyond our own universe? Nobody knows, but one thing is for sure, we will develop some cool stuff trying.

Andrewc : there is nothing wrong with speculation, unless that speculation is useless.
Speculation was at the basis of many scientific discoveries.

But we will never see beyond our own universe, as space-time limits us to this universe.
That is why I stated "All the rest is useless speculation".

As far as I know, our best shot at surpassing the speed of light is, ANTI-MATTER. Please don't ask me to explain it, but many people are studying this. It's human nature to explore. Unfortunately, the playground is too vast for our small minds. Not to be insulting, but what the hell....... Most of the people on this small planet think there a guy who lives in the clouds. Gimme a break.


I know, geez, no offense, but give me a break. A long time ago we though god was in the clouds. Then, we found out he wasn't. Then, we though he was on the moon. He wasn't. We though he might be in space, we found no trace of him. Now what?

As far as I know, our best shot at surpassing the speed of light is, ANTI-MATTER.
The only use of anti-matter is to convert mass totally into energy. Nothing else.
But there is no indication of any sort that the speed of light can be exceeded.
Can it be that you look too many Star Wars and Star Trek movies ? :)

C'mon guys! This thread is not a right or wrong thing. It's your opinions that counts! So just express yourself! Tell us what you think!

It's your opinions that counts! So just express yourself! Tell us what you think!
Random Universe
Have you guys ever think to it that our universe is one of billions of random universes? Like for example, maybe our universe is a marble. The marble is in a jar with millions of other marbles, which is like our marble, universes. Have you even think that, maybe the trillions of sands on the beaches are universes of different dimensions? Every dot of sand is another universe, with, their own laws and things like that? I know it sounds crazy, but i was just wondering so ferociously... Very mysterious....
As far as I am concerned your question should better have been posted on the philosophy board !
There is no serious (scientific) answer to what you suggested in your question.
Your "marbled random universe" filled with millions of universes could be excellent science fiction, but science ?
As I posted previously : for all of us living in our universe there is no "outside".
Just supposing there is an "outside" shows that you do not understand the basics of what is a universe.
We live in space-time (not in space nor in time but in space-time) that is valid only in this universe.
So for us there is only one universe and we will never know anything beyond/outside our space-time.

Again : your idea is an excellent basis for a science fiction story. Do you intend to write SF stories ?

As far as I am concerned your question should better have been posted on the philosophy board !
There is no serious (scientific) answer to what you suggested in your question.
Your "marbled random universe" filled with millions of universes could be excellent science fiction, but science ?
As I posted previously : for all of us living in our universe there is no "outside".
Just supposing there is an "outside" shows that you do not understand the basics of what is a universe.
We live in space-time (not in space nor in time but in space-time) that is valid only in this universe.
So for us there is only one universe and we will never know anything beyond/outside our space-time.

Again : your idea is an excellent basis for a science fiction story. Do you intend to write SF stories ?

I understand what you are saying. However to just dismiss the idea of "stuff" outiside of the boundries of our universe doesn't seem right. Just because we haven't figured out a way to put the area outside of the universe in a nice mathmatical formula doesn't mean there isn't something out there, or that a whole different dimension of space time isn't out there. That's just like what was said back when humans thought the world was flat, because they didn't know what was on the other side of the Atlantic.

Just because it escapes our mind, and we can't wrap our heads around it, doesn't mean it's impossible.

But I will say that we should focus on learning our universe before we worry about other ones, there is plenty here left to explore.

FWIW. I don't believe in the "marble" idea either, but that's not to say that its impossible. We don't know what lies outside of our light horizon, and probably never will.

... to just dismiss the idea of "stuff" outiside of the boundries of our universe doesn't seem right.
I do not dismiss the possibility that "there is more out there".
I say that because we live in this universe and are bound by it's space-time, there is for us no outside. We will never know if there is anything more than this universe.

Just as there is a maximum speed (light speed), there is also a maximum of information we can obtain, one controlling factor is the limits set by space-time.

Do not ask why the lightspeed is the maximum speed. We simply do not know. But so far all we know is that this limit exists, is confirmed, and has no reason or tendency to change. The same is valid for the limitations of space-time.

You say that "Just because we haven't figured out a way to put the area outside of the universe in a nice mathmatical formula doesn't mean there isn't something out there, or that a whole different dimention of space time isn't out there", but that is a misconception.

It's not a question of figuring out, it's a matter of impossibility to ever know anything outside the limits set by space-time.
Next to that you do not seem to understand the meaning of the word universe. It's the aggregate of all existing matter, energy, and space that concerns everyone and everything in this universe.

Therefore I always call thoughts about "outside our universe" pure speculation.

Out of all this talk about the universes and possibilities, I certianly think a creator is the least likely. I know that opens up a new perspective, but I'm not shy. In fact, it would ruin the dicussion..
Here is the honest question. How many people think that we will see the answer after we die? This has 0% to do with religion or fables. Rather a non-religious after-life.
Opinions please...

I do not dismiss the possibility that "there is more out there".
I say that because we live in this universe and are bound by it's space-time, there is for us no outside. We will never know if there is anything more than this universe.

Just as there is a maximum speed (light speed), there is also a maximum of information we can obtain, one controlling factor is the limits set by space-time.

Do not ask why the lightspeed is the maximum speed. We simply do not know. But so far all we know is that this limit exists, is confirmed, and has no reason or tendency to change. The same is valid for the limitations of space-time.

You say that "Just because we haven't figured out a way to put the area outside of the universe in a nice mathmatical formula doesn't mean there isn't something out there, or that a whole different dimention of space time isn't out there", but that is a misconception.

It's not a question of figuring out, it's a matter of impossibility to ever know anything outside the limits set by space-time.
Next to that you do not seem to understand the meaning of the word universe. It's the aggregate of all existing matter, energy, and space that concerns everyone and everything in this universe.

Therefore I always call thoughts about "outside our universe" pure speculation.

Yes,, it is pure speculation. My point is,, wouldn't you LOVE to know? I think it's the ultimate mystery. What will it teach us in our daily lives? Probably nothing.
But I have this unquenchable desire to try to find out. Sorry for being human. I am not someone who wants to die, but I don't thinks it's to be feared. If there is a conscienance beyond death, I think it will be a positive thing in some weird way.

Wouldn't you LOVE to know ? ... I am not someone who wants to die
Almost none of us want to die (well - at least not right now). But why would I love to know what is sure none of us will ever know, and what happens "outside" our universe is one of such thoughts.

I simply accept that there are limits to know. Please feel free to speculate, and feel free to design trillions of universes, positioned as marbles in a box.
But if you post such science-fantasy on the Science - Astronomy board, you should expect critical reactions.

As far as I am concerned your question should better have been posted on the philosophy board !
There is no serious (scientific) answer to what you suggested in your question.
Your "marbled random universe" filled with millions of universes could be excellent science fiction, but science ?
As I posted previously : for all of us living in our universe there is no "outside".
Just supposing there is an "outside" shows that you do not understand the basics of what is a universe.
We live in space-time (not in space nor in time but in space-time) that is valid only in this universe.
So for us there is only one universe and we will never know anything beyond/outside our space-time.

Again : your idea is an excellent basis for a science fiction story. Do you intend to write SF stories ?


Yes, I do intent to write SF when I grow up... maybe. But isn't theories almost all sound science fiction? I mean, string theory sounds pretty crazy to me. A string that plays music in atomic scale? What? Sounds kind of crazy.

What I mean to say is, there could be a possibility to almost everything. We do not know enough to say that it cannot happen. Our knowledge is not deep enough to say that. Einstein want to create the theory of everything, doesn't that sound a little SF?

Thousands of years ago, people though traveling to the moon was just a never-to-be-done dream. Even someone that say flying is possible is though to be a little doo-doo in the head. But now, we have done it, haven't we?

To me, it is same with space travel, hyper jump, etc...


DON'T STEAL MY IDEA FOR MY BOOK! ;)

I mean, string theory sounds pretty crazy to me. A string that plays music in atomic scale? What? Sounds kind of crazy.
Note : string "theory" is a thesis and NOT a Scientific Theory in the order of Evolution or Relativity.
No, the thesis does not propose that a string plays music at (sub) atomic scale.
The suggestion is that at the smallest level of matter there is vibration of energy.
Nothing new as for centuries we know that light is both a particle (photon) and wave (energy).
This could only be correct if matter is a format of energy.


What i mean to say is, there could be a possibility to almost everything. We do not know enough to say that it cannot happen
We know enough to say that in the case of the ''outside'' of our universe no information will ever reach us.
Not too bad, as the universe is more than big enough for us.


To me, it is same with space travel, hyper jump, ect.
Space travel is already happening on small scale. Man made systems are already on their way leaving the solar system. Manned space travel is more difficult, and exceed the problems of technique and finance.
Who is prepared to space travel and never see his dearest ever again?
Hyper jump? The speed of light is a given maximum speed. Anything faster is science fiction.

Note : string "theory" is a thesis and NOT a Scientific Theory in the order of Evolution or Relativity.
No, the thesis does not propose that a string plays music at (sub) atomic scale.
The suggestion is that at the smallest level of matter there is vibration of energy.
Nothing new as for centuries we know that light is both a particle (photon) and wave (energy).
This could only be correct if matter is a format of energy.


We know enough to say that in the case of the ''outside'' of our universe no information will ever reach us.
Not too bad, as the universe is more than big enough for us.


Space travel is already happening on small scale. Man made systems are already on their way leaving the solar system. Manned space travel is more difficult, and exceed the problems of technique and finance.
Who is prepared to space travel and never see his dearest ever again?
Hyper jump? The speed of light is a given maximum speed. Anything faster is science fiction.



And how do you know this for sure? You said that anything faster then light is science fiction, does that mean it is impossible? Nothing can go faster then light?

I do not think that.

And how do you know this for sure? You said that anything faster then light is science fiction, does that mean it is impossible? Nothing can go faster then light? I do not think that.
There is a lot of scientific support that the light speed is the maximum speed possible.
There is good reason to assume that the light speed can not be exceeded.
From cyclotron tests we know that with increasing speed matter is hardly further increased in speed, but is increased mainly in mass. The faster matter goes, the more it grows in mass.
Protons or electrons in a cyclotron never reach light speed, but grow in mass.
The nearer they get to lightspeed, the more mass they get.
The entire energy in the universe will not be enough to bring any matter - not even a single electron - to lightspeed.

"Nothing can go faster then light?"
Yes, I think that is correct !

Sarnian,

You obviously are well educated in this topic, and I respect your position, and for all intents and purposes, your comment do agree with what I have heard other physicist state.

However, that said, I don't feel we should ever dismiss any idea. For it is a fact, that 20 years ago, what was once considered science fiction, is now science fact.

I agree that we will never know, or need to know what is outside of our light boundary, or on the other side of the universe, however the mere act of contemplating it exercises the mind, and allows us to explore different theories in our head, and sometimes with others, on paper, on websites like this, etc.

Kids like survivorboi may very well be on his way to being the next Einstein, or Hawking, we certainly don't want to build walls of "impossibility" in his head.

How many failed equations did Einstein draft before he came up with the theory of relativity?

I have no reason to disagree with your comments. However I also have no reason to label the other idea's presented on this board as "impossible".

Just my two cents. No offence intended.

For andrewc :

what was once considered science fiction, is now science fact.
Only a very small part of what ever was considered SF is today science fact. Most is not.

I agree that we will never know, or need to know what is outside of our light boundary, or on the other side of the universe
Scientifically speaking there is no "outside" or "other side" of the universe.
Of course you may contemplate or believe there is, but that is speculation.

it exercises the mind, and allows us to explore different theories in our head, and sometimes with others, on paper, on websites like this
No problem on philosophical boards, but this is a science board.
No offence taken here, nor intended, either !

For andrewc :

what was once considered science fiction, is now science fact.
Only a very small part of what ever was considered SF is today science fact. Most is not.

I agree that we will never know, or need to know what is outside of our light boundary, or on the other side of the universe
Scientifically speaking there is no "outside" or "other side" of the universe.
Of course you may contemplate or believe there is, but that is speculation.

it exercises the mind, and allows us to explore different theories in our head, and sometimes with others, on paper, on websites like this
No problem on philosophical boards, but this is a science board.
No offence taken here, nor intended, either !

I understand, and you have made some good scientific points on your post. I myself have learned a little bit. I also enjoy hearing people well educated on the subject speak. That said, perhaps this would be a good time for the mods to move the thread to the philosophical board.

... perhaps this would be a good time for the mods to move the thread to the philosophical board.
That is up to the topic starter "survivorboi" to ask the mods to do.
In the meantime you can start such a (or similar) topic on the philosophical board yourself.
Or start a science-based astronomy topic on this board.