----------THREAD IS SOLELY MEANT FOR INDIANS,ESPECIALLY in INDIA-----

You know I just quit my job today, and I can't explain how relieved I feel about it.Used to work as a tech support in a BPO , outsourced in India with most customers calling from america .To a point where I realised that the job was getting way too frustrating for me ,was doing absolutely no good for me, demoralising me completely .By the way there is one thing which I can certainly say for sure --- I THINK MOST AMERICANS ARE *******S BY DEFAULT----------

With some customers using language like " This bastard router is not working, I'll f**k your wife if you dont make it work"
Even heard of Austrlians, New zealanders being super racists .

I just want to address this issue especially to Indians who are doing such jobs, "Guys common , wake up - think we deserve much better ", We live in our own country and do such derogatory work , such derogatory jobs. Its like living in your own country and lobbying the white man's *** , and sucking it hard and dry .And someone out- there just calls up and uses such language ,abuses us outright - and we do nothing !
Stop working in these so called MNCs , these so called tech support centres.Im sure we have better things to do , better oppurtunities .
I just heard about a certain Richard bouchman (apparently someone in the White house) who criticised India for accusing Pakistan of its involvement in the Mumbai Blasts recently, citing we do not have hard evidence ,when the fact is one of the key suspects himself has confessed of " The Pakistans ISi's involvement in these attacks .See how useless these people are ?, and we go lobbying after them , such useless people. We think of strengthening our ties with these guys. "Byall means remember one thing-we are the east and they are the west , and no matter what -the difference will always be there.common , at leat educated indians should not opt out for such derogatory work !"
Anyway I just wanted to make this one point straight from my heart,and anyway this thread is solely for anyone who has probably gone through the same harassing experience as I have.I don't care about anything else.

Do you maybe not feel that from your post you are being Racist to Americans ?

Are you being Racist to Americans

I totally agree with Jay Jay

2 wrongs don't make a right

So true!

Your talk is just as low, u sound like a racist too!

I agree with the original poster - they should stop doing those outsourcing tech support jobs if they can't handle the frustration at the other end of the line.

Oh, and by the way, there is a whole website dedicated to recordings from Australians abusing Indian telemarketers/tech support workers, abuse worse than Americans dish out.

Adityakalekar, can you summarize - in one sentence - what your point is?

2 wrongs don't make a right so true

I agree with the original poster - they should stop doing those outsourcing tech support jobs if they can't handle the frustration at the other end of the line.

Oh, and by the way, there is a whole website dedicated to recordings from Australians abusing Indian telemarketers/tech support workers, abuse worse than Americans dish out.

IMO the problem is that people are very, very angry because these jobs are being sent to India and taken away from there home countrys, which means to a number of people that they have lost there job just because they can pay someone in India very, very, very low salary :confused:

IMO the problem is that people are very, very angry because these jobs are being sent to India and taken away from there home countrys, which means to a number of people that they have lost there job just because they can pay someone in India very, very, very low salary :confused:Yes, that and the fact that many of the workers have a strong accent that is hard to understand paired with poor training that is mainly focused on following a script and not actually having the technical knowledge.

I THINK MOST AMERICANS ARE *******S BY DEFAULT

This seems to be the point. That is a very racist comment. There are racists in every country.

It's pretty sad that one would make a judgment like the above based on the bad conduct of a few.

That's why I said two wrongs don't make a right.

He is not right as his racist comments sound far worse then what he claims the americans said.

It is true that some Americans do get more upset than is called for when having to deal with outsourced tech support. However, I would be very surprised that anyone would make such a threat, especially at the beginning of a call. Especially such an obviously empty threat.

What I suspect is that our new member (note this was his first post) did not voluntarily leave his position. Rather he lost it as a result of HIS attitude towards customers. Maybe the customers he serviced got so abusive because a) he didn't know what he was doing, b) his accent was so strong as to make him unintelligible and/or c) his temper would flare at perceived slights.

As far as Americans being racist because of this, its not racism its simply anger over not getting a product to work properly. I've heard of callers who lose their temper when talking to an articulate american simply because they weren't getting the support they thought was warranted.

Well said scottgem

I won't guess as to any of the above, but one point stands out very strongly to me.

I get very upset when I call tech support and end up with someone who does not speak english clearly... and I must admit that I've probably been rude with tech support people who do not speak english clearly.

I suppose on one hand I cannot judge the support person for taking the job - and my real anger should be with the company that hired him or her.

In the future I will try harder to not take out my frustration on the techie, but follow up the call with a scathing email or call to the company for their hiring practices... or avoid buying the company's products in the future.

Linksys is #1 on my list of companies that tick me off for this reason. It's admirable that they have 24/7 free phone support, but I've called them a half dozen times over the past few years and have yet to get a native english speaker.

I'm very high on Linksys support. I've had a few occasions to call them and yes, I would get someone with an Indian accent. But I've never encountered someone that I had difficulty understanding. Most importantly, I've always had my questions answered completely and quickly by the first level support person. And when I have to call tech support its usually not a simple problem.

I remember when I added a wireless router to my network. I got everything setup, then called Linksys on a Saturday morning. Within a half hour, everything was setup and working.

Well I've got a perfect test for them. For months now I've resisted calling them to figure out why my laptop (wireless) and my son's PlayStation (wired) can't be online at the same time.

Up to now we've just lived with not being able to both be online at the same time. I'll give them a call.

Sorry to be a part of hijacking this thread, but I have a feeling the OP will not be back to comment anyway :D

Does anybody feel that these workers in India are being Exploited ??


After all the West business seem to view them as cheap, cost effective labour!

Does anybody feel that these workers in India are being Exploited ??


After all the West business seem to view them as cheap, cost effective labour !!I believe the other view is that they are getting jobs they otherwise would not have available to them.

I once had a problem with Front Page while building a web site. I called support and got a gentleman from India. He helped me with my problem and as a matter of a fact, he bent over backwards to help me. I was very happy with his expertise.
I think the poster here is probably of the same caliber as people that verbally abuse other people on the phone. Probably not well trained and inneffiecient.
I get the same type of people when I call Quest here in the United States. I cannot understand them and they are not well trained or just downright rude! I just hang up, wait a few minutes and then call back. I usually get someone different that I can relate to.
As far as people from India, I love them. I think they are, for the most part, kind gentle and decent folks just trying to make an honest living. If they are being exploited by Corpoate America then they need to organize and not let it go on. In a world where CEOs make millions more than their workers, I think we all need to organize! The common worker across the globe is being exploited, here and abroad.
I really do believe this poster is part of the problem and not the solution though.

When a major US call center came to setup shop where I live, it was supposed to be a "big deal" that was bringing "many, excellent jobs" to the community.

What it really turned out to be was nothing but minimum wage jobs, and the staff is squeezed to the legal and ethical limit. Now - It's well known as a place to get a temporary job, but not a place you want to work for in the long term (i.e. more than a year or two).

I can easilly see how in these overseas call centers, much of the same mentality is brought in. The call center company is bringing in these "great jobs" and thus they feel they have the right to squeeze and abuse the staff to the legal and ethical limits possible at that location.

It's no wonder they are feeling frustrated and abused.

Well I've got a perfect test for them. For months now I've resisted calling them to figure out why my laptop (wireless) and my son's PlayStation (wired) can't be online at the same time.

Up to now we've just lived with not being able to both be online at the same time. I'll give them a call.

Sorry to be a part of hijacking this thread, but I have a feeling the OP will not be back to comment anyway :D

Could it be an IP conflict? Does the PS require a hard coded IP or can it use DHCP?

If you do get someone you have trouble understanding I would not hesitate to politely explain, that you are having trouble understanding them and ask to speak to someone who can speak better english. Probably not going to sit well with the tech, but that's your right.

I will put on the most patient hat I've got in the closet before I call :D

Very well put. Sums everything up.

Yes, that and the fact that many of the workers have a strong accent that is hard to understand paired with poor training that is mainly focused on following a script and not actually having the technical knowledge.

You nailed why I get frustrated in dealing with them. I think the script reading is condescending and very impersonal, and thus insulting.
It's hard to be level-headed when you WAIT for longer than expected periods and then get served in this manner.

Most of my ire is directed to the companies that insulate themselves from the customer in this way.

OK, get this one. I called HP support for my wife's computer. She got a huge Monitor and new Video card. It went black and I couln't get into safe mode and I am not a computer whizz. The guy from India had me on hold for quite a while. When he came back, he said our HP desk top is too old for the new card and that we needed to buy a new computer and then proceeded to go into a sales pitch for a new HP desk top! Well, first off, the computer is 3 years old and the card will work. Secondly, I did not call support for a sales pitch! I am beginning to go sour on these companies and their approach to sale their stuff!

Just read this thread.Hmnn.My cousin Karen,lives in Perth,Western Australia,with her husband Rob.He is from Ohio,and is a very nice man.As were most of the folks I met in Orlando,a few years ago.As a Brit,I also have Indian sub-continent friends,who are great,and easy to understand.My on-line bank is in India.My local branch is two kilometres away from my house.If I have to use my cell (mobile) phone,to call Delhi,the call is free.Racism is pointless,immature,and shows a lack of understanding.Leave the bad language out please.

Well said.

OK, get this one. I called HP support for my wifes computer. She got a huge Monitor and new Video card. It went black and I couln't get into safe mode and I am not a computer whizz. The guy from India had me on hold for quite a while. When he came back, he said our HP desk top is too old for the new card and that we needed to buy a new computer and then proceeded to go into a sales pitch for a new HP desk top! Well, first off, the computer is 3 years old and the card will work. Secondly, I did not call support for a sales pitch! I am beginning to go sour on these companies and their approach to sale their stuff!

Without knowing the specifics, I would not be surprised that your new video card would not work. Three years is a fairly long time for computer hardware. I'm wondering how you "know" the card will work.

A local computer guy said it will. I don't really know for sure so I guess that makes the point for the quailty of support. The monitor is working fine with the old card back in so I am not sure if I want to give the new card another go.

Yes, most Indians from the sub continent (a.k.a. new arrivals) in the United States are being exploited and some seem not to care that they are exploited and are eager to express the same bias as some Anglo-and other European- African Americans . Not understanding that expressing such bias effects them also... I being of multi - nationalities... I am confused... and see no way of getting this message across that racism is a waste of time and delays the advances of humanity. For Indians in the United States are allowing them-self ( in my opinion) to be exploited for selfish reasoning's and this activity (of an allowing of exploitation)is non productive. However, there are websites and books that address the issues of exploitation and other social problems... one book I actual read is titled "Social Problems - A Critical Approach, by Mary Ann Neubeck... read it doing some down time and come back and let me how it addressed your problem... the book is used in higher learning classes and gave me restart. As far as Indian's in call centers there are many other places where they are being exploited... just think of a job...

In the future I will try harder to not take out my frustration on the techie, but follow up the call with a scathing email or call to the company for their hiring practices... or avoid buying the company's products in the future.
I really really really like your idea, Rick! It is certainly not good to dump on anyone and, although the OP had a very slanted view, I can see the poorly-made point that there is far too much casual rudeness growing in the US and that is pretty dismaying-- we even discussed that in another thread, I think? But I don't think lack of manners is really a racist thing. And it may be that we'll need to collectively look at how frustrated Americans are becoming over some real stuff too -- big stuff. I am still convinced that it would be very effective if Americans got in the habit of voting with their dollars.

A local computer guy said it will. I don't really know for sure so I guess that makes the point for the quailty of support. The monitor is working fine with the old card back in so I am not sure if I want to give the new card another go.

If the monitor works with the old card, then I suspect the card is the problem. Which would indicate the local guy may have been wrong.

Lunagoddess, you bring a very good point up in that I have seen many companies here in America out source entire departments to companies that employ legal aliens because it saves them a lot of money in wages and benefits. Sometimes racism is cloaked in good old fashioned greed. Its not the ones who take these jobs at a lower wage and less benefits it's the companies that hire them to save money.

Communisiom at its best!

Hi,
All I had to read about your post was "tech support".
Before I had to retire to stay home and take care of my wife with lung problems, I was a Cust. Care Representative for a large cell phone company for 9 months. I was asked to be a Supervisor, but had to quit and retire.
Being a Representative, taking phone calls from customers, is a very, very different job than most people ever experience.
YOU HAVE TO REALIZE THAT!
If I had taken personally everything said to me over the phone while talking with an irate customer, I would be like others who quit that same day.
The Call Center where I worked had New Employee Training Classes every 6 weeks! What does that tell you?
It tells you that one Cust. Representative quits every week! This call center had 350 people taking calls. In a month, they needed 30 new employees!
This is every month. They have 5 Trainers, who have 5 week sessions for new employees, starting every 5 weeks.
They called it "The Attrition Rate". I call it, quitting, for those who did not have the personality for it.
If you don't have the right attitude for this type of job, then you are much better off finding a different line of work.
It's just a job. But letting it get to you, is just like any other job. You won't like it if you take it personally.
I do wish you the best, and good luck.

Hi,
They called it "The Attrition Rate". I call it, quitting, for those who did not have the personality for it.I worked in a tech support call centre for 4 months just after the dot com bust layoffs. From what I saw the attrition rate was less about not having the personality for the job but more about having found a better job. Many are in those position for the lack of a better job, they don't really want to be there. I met a lot of people there and could see the smarter, educated ones leaving one by one. What's left are those that either a) have no better option due to a lack of decent résumé (lack of education, etc.) or b) they are caught up in the call centre circle - they move from one call centre to another because it's all they know or c) they actually like the job. There are very few people in the C) group. :)

A statement made by [email protected]
"… do such derogatory work , such derogatory jobs. Its like living in your own country and lobbying the white man's *** , and sucking it hard and dry .And someone out- there just calls up and uses such language ,abuses us outright - and we do nothing !" Your statement has hit me as interesting... it is not the work that I found demeaning... it is the wages for the job that I found is demeaning... what I found interesting is that I know that Afro-Americans and Native Americans have to endure hostile verbal abuse for centuries... understand the issues are the coloring of the skin and not a thing else... some people who desire to stay in the security of ignorance will express such hatred... those individuals are needing to hurt by what ever means necessary... in some cases it is the frustration of the individual about there situation... not you personally... the next time I hear from some one of another race whom had a conversation with an Indian and that Indian had expressed a racial opinion …then the problem comes back to me… why is it that a Indian feels so privilege that they can call me a N***** or lazy or lacking in intelligence or expresses an opinion that means why are you learning you have no future... I have to pay for that negative nasty response in my relationship with people of the Afro race... while the pain your going through is bad be careful not to fall into the trap of racism or... xenophobia... or inter social racism ( the hating of oneself)…call centers are not demeaning work again it is the accepting slave wages and making it difficult for the rest of us in finding work that will help pay the bills …to all others lets not run away from the problem face and address it…I learned that it helps to express an shortness in knowledge and finding out that all we want is to play futbol and learn to play tennis and buy computers and other electronics just for fun…

Sees the points made by Fred and Karma and would add this. A few years back, I naively agreed to work as a clerk in a retail music store during the Christmas season to help out a desperate friend who's business was struggling. Although it was fun on many levels, it was also an amazing education in double time! :eek:

Stress makes people rude and Christmas is sadly apparently very very stressful. Maybe this was not as rude as the anonymous phone call is, but it was enough for me to definitely cross it off my "Try Again" list! LOL.

And to top it off the friend went out of business anyway-- but to be frank, once I was closely involved, I could see why. Nature has a way of taking care of these things in a healthy capitalism environment. Trouble is, the whole world isn't necessarily healthy or capitalistic and we're in the global market now, like it or not.

Hello, I am canadian and I would like to say do not be hard on people with accents I call my internet company here in canada and I have the same problem with people who their first language is english, some they do not fix your problem or leave you on hold or say they going to call back to check on something to fix the problem and never call and all these tech support are canadian, I think this is kind of racism to go off more on the person who has an accent because some people just when they hear somebody with an accent they just feel irritated and that is why they go off easily on them, and these people do not take north americans jobs they are in the third world and the big companies exploit them to make more money and pay them practically nothing. My phone line company the people who answer most of them are indians when I have a problem a guy with an accent answer the phone just I get more frustrated and I am ashamed of that (though he was nice and fixed my problem and he was very calm in spite me sounding so mad) and I think this the problem and I am trying to change that and I will.and I guess every body should acknowledge that and try to be an understanding human beings, bad services could be found every where but do not blame it on the accent

Needkarma,

There may be a website that is dedicated to australians being rude to indian tech support but what are you insinuating here?

We are more racist than other countries.

Don't put us in that boat.

I'm sure we could find plenty of example out there of canadians racisit attitudes as well.

Sorry, little off topic but I don't think it was necessary to bring somehting like that up with the initial post!

Australia is a very multi cultural country and the MAJORITY of us are very accepting people and love our multi culturalism.

We just hate being pestered by sales people on the phone!

I think it is funny ( funny strange or sad not funny haha), how so many people will be racist about a race, and then claim it's because they are all racist. The thing is, when people call and are already frustrated, and then it is either hard to understand or your problme is getting fixed, it just begets more anger. True some Americans are racist, just like some europeans, austrailians, middle easterns etc are racist. Anytime you assume that all of any type of culture are one way, and you lump people into groups you risk being prejudice or rascist.
Rascist is thinking you are above a certain group/race.
Prejudice is thiniking certain untrue things are true based on stereotypes or other common misleading facts or assumptions.
And other times
For this indian guy... really it has nothing to do with your accent or that your indian, someitmes people are just rude regardless where you are from.
I have had Indian people be incredibly rude to me, especially males do I assume all indians are racist or all indian males are sexiest pigs no.
But if however this guy has only dealt with stupid ignorant americans then maybe that is why he would come to that conclusion. Anyway I hope this guy can realize that by him being racist too won't fix any of the problems.

That should have been problem is not getting fixed...

I feel sorry for any one who has a job where they have to put up with all kinds of attitudes and rudeness and anger. Not a good work environment. Sounds like the job I had for 30 years, no wonder I don't like anybody.

貴社ますますご盛栄のこととお喜び申し上げます。平素は格別のお引き立てをいただき、厚く御礼申し上げます 。

In japanese the statement means hello for the month of aug and how are you and how much you are appreciated... If all business could run this polite. Then threads like this one would not be necessary...

There are racists in every country-true. But there are more racists in some countries than in others.

That's because some countries are bigger than other countries... so yea big countries like europe and america and asia will proabbly have more racist then smaller countries because of the numbers invovled... though really if you mean percentile. I unno maybe the middle east is just trainded to hate us?? So they put them in crummy jobs where people are gone say stupid crap to prove to them that americans are stupid and we all deserve o die?? **goes conspiracy theory**

thats because some countries are bigger than other countries...so yea big countries like europe and america adn asia will proabbly have more racist then smaller countires because of the numbers invovled...though really if you mean percentile. i unno maybe the middle east is just trainded to hate us??? so they put them in crummy jobs where ppl are gone say stupid crap to prove to them that americans are stupid and we all deserve o die???? **goes conspiracy theory**



You are 100% correct. People are trained to hate. Sadly the training begins in the home where the parents pass on their negative opinions to their children who eventually pass it on to theirs. A country's historically -influenced culture determines its type and amount of racism.

BTW
Europe and Asia are continents.

I think it is funny ( funny strange or sad not funny haha), how so many people will be racist about a race, and then claim it's because they are all racist. The thing is, when people call and are already frustrated, and then it is either hard to understand or your problme is getting fixed, it just begets more anger. True some Americans are racist, just like some europeans, austrailians, middle easterns etc are racist. anytime you asume that all of any type of culture are one way, and you lump people into groups you risk being prejudice or rascist.
rascist is thinking you are above a certain group/race.
prejudice is thiniking certain untrue things are true based on stereotypes or other common misleading facts or assumptions.
and other times
for this indian guy....really it has nothing to do with your accent or that yoru indian, someitmes people are just rude regardless where you are from.
i have had Indian people be incredibly rude to me, especially males do I assume all indians are racist or all indian males are sexiest pigs no.
but if however this guy has only dealt with stupid ignorant americans then maybe that is why he would come to that conclusion. anyways I hope this guy can realize that by him being racist too won't fix any of the problems.

that should have been problem is not getting fixed...

QUOTE]

All right,
I think Im through with this one ,probably because Im tired of receiving e-mail alerts because of this thread every time I open my mailbox,and strange enough no Indian has commented on this post!

First and foremost I want apologize if I have hurt someone by posting this thread.Im not the kind of person who likes to harbour feelings of hatred regarding a particular caste.
My intention of posting was to throw light on the fact - that there are such people , and this is exactly the kind of language they use -and it is not a once in a blue moon kind of situation.So much so that the tech support executive literally feels threatened -emotionally black-mailed!
Every single thing mentioned in this post is nothing but the truth.I haven't lied about anything so how can someone even point a finger at me ?

And what's this whole thing about me sounding racist ?Even if I did sound like a racist t then I just have one simple question - Who sowed that seed of racism in my mind ? - It is people who represented your country right ? People from your country right !- because I was not always like this ,What caused to me to get so bitter -so anti american ?

Anyway I don't want to comment more on this issue. Because every time those painful memories flash in my mind ,it brings nothing but tears to my eyes.I have experienced female tech support executives in India literally crying on certain calls .Either ways in my opinion its not a good idea to have outsourced -tech support centres ,especially in India.

True there are racists in every country , but no one is taught to be a racist.
I personally don't think so.
If people in the Middle East harbour feelings of hatred for americans - then it is because of America's government policies in Iraq and particularly in the few arab countries, that have fuelled more hatred.Of those thousands of innocent Iraqi civilians who die almost every day in those suicide bombings -that has angered them -Its not only innocent Iraqis, but so many innocent americans who have become victims -you remember Daniel Pearl right ?

Anyway ,I don't want to stretch the topic more-
No more hard feelings
Take care
**********************
LUNAGODESS, -thank you for your advice also fred J, and couple of others.
Amethyst - I was just kidding -that last comment was a joke , nothing serious,
(hopefully this is my last post )

And whats this whole thing about me sounding racist ?Even if I did sound like a racist t then I just have one simple question - Who sowed that seed of racism in my mind ? - It is people who represented your country right ? People from your country right !- because I was not always like this ,What caused to me to get so bitter -so anti american ?


Racism: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities

Your original note condemned Americans, because of the actions of a few. That is racist. If you had simply wrote about the boors who treated you poorly, that would have been different. But you didn't. You condemn a whole country because of the actions of a few.



True there are racists in every country , but no one is taught to be a racist.
I personally dont think so.
If people in the Middle East harbour feelings of hatred for americans - then it is because of America's government policies in Iraq and particularly in the few arab countries, that have fuelled more hatred.Of those thousands of innocent Iraqi civilians who die almost every day in those suicide bombings -that has angered them -Its not only innocent Iraqis, but so many innocent americans who have become victims -you remember Daniel Pearl right ?


I totally disagree. There is a great song from the play South Pacific; "You have to be carefully taught". If you've ever looked at young children playing in a racially mixed environment you can see that they aren't racist. Its taught to them later on.

I am not a supporter of my country's policies in Iraq, but I suggest you look at WHO is doing most of the killing of Iraqi civilians! Who is setting off the suicide bombs! Its not Americans!

True there are racists in every country , but no one is taught to be a racist. I personally dont think so.Ok, let's explore that. If hate and racism isn't a learned behaviour then are you suggesting that people are born that way? Have you ever seen 4 and 5 year olds playing in a park with other kids? They don't care what colour skin their playmate has. They don't even care if they speak the same language.

I love your last sentence Scott... 100% spot on! Although I wouldn't say I'm not a supporter of your countries policies as I think they didn't have a wide range of choices really! So I SUPPORT them :)

And NK I'm with you also, of course people are taught, no one is born racist.

Racism: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities

Your original note condemned Americans, because of the actions of a few. That is racist. If you had simply wrote about the boors who treated you poorly, that would have been different. But you didn't. You condemn a whole country because of the actions of a few.



I totally disagree. There is a great song from the play South Pacific; "You have to be carefully taught". If you've ever looked at young children playing in a racially mixed environment you can see that they aren't racist. Its taught to them later on.

I am not a supporter of my country's policies in Iraq, but I suggest you look at WHO is doing most of the killing of Iraqi civilians! Who is setting off the suicide bombs! Its not Americans!

I still condemn it, because I have every reason to do so.And you really did not understand my point -
"no one is born a racist , no one is taught to be racist - if people become racist it is because of the reality they see,the experiences they go through,
.
So many Indians have become victims of racial profiling -like those 12 innocent passengers who were detained on board a Dutch flight because they were suspected to be terrorists - and what was their fault ?-
they were brownish in skin colour - do you understand Mr. ScottGem (Sir)

Right from the start I had a valid point and I still do so.
And Mr. ScottGem -why are Iraqi civilians being targetted ?-because of Americas presence in Iraq, - do you understand that?
what if you faced a similar situation in America ,where you had civilians being killed everyday in suicide bombings ? -Yes ,you have any answer for that-

Dont you point a finger at me,.To me you seem like those persons with typical mindsets - As someone has rightly said "Never cry in front of a person wo doesn't value your tears , or who doent understand your wounds" -

Is there anyway I can stop getting e-mail alerts - because Im sick & tired of this thing -
**

I still condemn it, because I have every reason to do so.And you really did not understand my point -
"no one is born a racist , no one is taught to be racist - if people become racist it is because of the reality they see,the experiences they go through,
.
So many Indians have become victims of racial profiling -like those 12 innocent passengers who were detained on board a Dutch flight because they were suspected to be terrorists - and what was their fault ?-
they were brownish in skin colour - do you understand Mr. ScottGem (Sir)

Right from the start I had a valid point and I still do so.
And Mr. ScottGem -why are Iraqi civilians being targetted ?-because of Americas presence in Iraq, - do you understand that?
what if you faced a similar situation in America ,where you had civilians being killed everyday in suicide bombings ? -Yes ,you have any answer for that-

Dont you point a finger at me,.To me you seem like those persons with typical mindsets - As someone has rightly said "Never cry in front of a person wo doesnt value your tears , or who doent understand your wounds" -

Is there anyway I can stop getting e-mail alerts - because Im sick & tired of this thing -
**

No, you mistated your point. Yes we agree that no one is born a racist but we disagree that they aren't taught racism. Whether its taught to them by other racists, or they learn because of experiences to fear certain groups, its still taught.

What about the passengers on that Dutch airline? If they were racially profiled, who's to blame? True, they aren't to blame, but the blame should be placed on the people who have committed the acts of terrorism. If people are being profilled its because they fit the profile of those who have committed these crimes. The blame goes to them, not the people who are trying to protect the innocent.

Ok, so your logic is that its OK for the Iraqi insurgents to kill their fellow citizens because the US freed their country from the oppressive regime that was in power? That actually makes sense to you? Sure doesn't make sense to me. My answer to that is for the duly constituted government to go after the murderers using whatever help they need.

I will point my finger wherever it needs pointing. When I see people who post things I can refute with facts and logic, I will do so. The facts here are that you expressed some racist sentiments by condemning all Americans for the acts of a few. And your defense of those statements shows a bias that ignores the salient facts and defies logical thinking.

P.S. just unsubscribe to the thread.

Please all americans you should know what is going on on the world and why are you so hated( for documented reasons) u have to educated and acknowlege what is going on and stop being ignorant to the fact that this is going on and you are the one who is going to change your government from causing pain and killing all aver the world and for adityak post, that was his experience may be it was generaized and it is not fair to the none racist but let me give and example if a kid from iraq his mom and dad were killed by an american bomb you think his hatred to americans has not merits? U all should be ashamed that some americans are racist and should condemn that istead of going off on him, be educated and know why americans are hated to change that, if americans are educated they would refuse to give there votes to presedents cause killing and poverty around the world (for oil and whatnot) because this pain will come back here eventually and it did(9/11) , I do not think you can call someone a racist with out bad experience and he had one but we all can change that by just at least acknowlege that and the change will come eventually.

please all americans u should know what is going on on the world and why r u so hated( for documented reasons) .

You are making assumptions here. I, for one, do realize that were are often hated in other parts of the world. I, for one, do realize that, while we try to help others, we often do it with an arrogant, overbearing attitude. And, of course, the child who's parent is killed by an american bomb is going to hate americans. But what about the child whose parent is killed by a suicide bomb from his own people? Who should that child hate?

The Arab world needs to wake up to the fact that terrorism is not the answer. That indiscriminate killing just gives rise to more. Committing such acts will usually strengthen the resolve of the victims to stand against the terrorists. The answer is NOT to hate. The answer is to look at motives and try to work towards peace!

BTW I did not vote for this president nor do I agree with or approve of his actions, but you are putting cause and effect in reverse. Afghanistan and Iraq (at least partially) are the result of 9/11, not the cause of it.

Instead of hating Americans you should be trying to stop extremist from blowing people up and allowing them to hide among you ,then maybe those bombs won't be aimed in your direction. If they had no where to hide and be protected then innocent people would have nothing to fear.

Before the Americans were involved in Iraq, they were killing each other, look at what Sadamm did to his people. Men in power will always cause war, because they want more power. It happens in every country. To blame the Americans for death and fighting throughout the world is so ludicrous. No one country is to blame if they are at war.
I have some wonderful friends that are from India. They are a peaceful people, if you were to ask them about me, they would say the same. It is too bad big companies have opened offices in India, but believe me, if the Indians did not want them to do it, they wouldn't. You will only be exploited if you allow it.

It saddens me that a whole race is judged by a select few and everyone is looking for someone else to blame. So, sir, you took a job that you are not tough enough skinned to work at. Accept that, and realize when someone has a problem, it is frustrating to begin with and when you are having a hard time communicating with each other it makes it worse. I am not blaming you, there are many people who love to argue and love to get those grumpy people calling so they have an excuse to be grumpy back.:) Let them have those jobs. Surely there are many jobs in India that you would be paid more money at and be happier at, because the big businesses are only exploiting the Indians with their companies there anyway. If the American companies are hated so much there you need to boycot them and they would leave if they had no workers. Right? I do know for a fact there have been lay offs of American workers because they have taken their offices to India. I have 2 friends that worked for a health care provider in the office and they closed it here and all billing is done from India. The Americans would be glad to have their jobs back. Do that for us, will you? Thank you and I truly wish you the best of luck with your new venture. I would never be able to work as you did.

o( blame the Americans for death and fighting throughout the world is so ludicrous) how could you say that? can you imagine some one come to your house and cause you pain by the premise they want to help u? Do you see americans help countries with dictators and cause havoc if they do not have oil or some kind of their benefit? Come on the issue is much bigger that bad attitude on the phone, like I said if you just admit the problem and accept why is happening is happening instead of just arguing for the sake of arguing and just being righteous death on any sides is going to stop, I think americans think the world is just americ, they do not know how their government operate and after 9/11 they start to have some ideas but denial will not solve any thing and for you to say america is not to blame this the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard, america is the bigget and most powerful country in the world and you want to know how they act in other countries you should just stop denying that the american policy around the world is biggest terrororist and the biggest bully, I can not talk too much here but there is a documentary you should all watch you might get the right pic I am not sure about the name but I think it is called (marshal war of usa) I am not sure I do not think it is the right name but I will get the name for you in the next 5 hours but just watch documntary movies from other countries instead of just thinking the world is only america and stop being self righteous, and I want to add something for the example I gave about the kid who will hate americans who caused his mom and dad death you have to go to the root of the problem istead of taking to problem from the middle and go from their it is like if someone punshes you and if punsh back you are to blame this exactlly how I see americans handle terorr they should know that they started the terror all those poor countries have no means in the beginning to come here to cause problems but the oil and what not made american government economic colonizatin for their own advantage, and for the bad attitude on the phone and some of them being racist it is just the tip of the ice burg and the others who clame they are not racist sure they answers as narrow as a racist

Are you trying to tell me that Sadamm did not kill any of his people? Are you trying to tell me that people in the "oil" countries are not constantly throwing rocks and grenades at each other? Constantly blowing up cars and busses and buildings with their own people in them? I am not saying America should or should not be there. I think ALL heads of government are too powerful NOT just the Americans. Look at the oil countries, the people are so poor and yet the heads of the gov't live beyond kings. What I said was, there is fighting everywhere all of the time whether the Americans are involved or not. Read all of my post and read the words, do not put words where they are not. I am not calling you a racist nor am I one. I am saying a fact, there has been war before America was even discovered and there will be war after. If America is so bad, why do so many foreigners want to live here?

Shah,
You seem to have a very narrow, egocentric viewpoint here. You need to look at the larger picture and maybe you will have some understanding.

I'll point out my very specific example. The tsunami of last year. Americans supplied aid to the victims of that disaster. Many countries that do not supply us with oil or anything else. No return was asked or expected. I'l also note that when we suffered through similar devastation as a result of Katrina, there was very little support provided by other countries.

You seem to think we are the only ones in the wrong here ("if u just admit the problem and accept why is happening"). I have already said, that I am aware of and understand some of the problems we cause. However, you make no attempt to see things from our side ("cause u pain by the premise they want to help u"). Did it ever occur to you that all we want to do is help? That we recognize the riches our country has been blessed with and want to help others achieve that? Maybe its not a "premise", but a sincere desire to help. Granted we often do it badly, but maybe if the people we are trying to help look past the mistakes and realize that's we are just trying to help, then maybe they might not resent the mistakes as much.

But yes I DO deny that America is the biggest terrorist and bully. That is just propaganda, that you seem to have been fed. We did not start terror anyplace.

If you want to look at root causes, try jealousy. A large part of the reason for the antagonism towards us is jealousy over what we have. Most countries have no problem in asking us for help when they need it, while at the same time biting the hand that feeds them.

You need to open your mind and try looking at facts. The facts are that the American people value peace and are generous and helping for the most part. But we also have backbone and will retaliate when we are attacked. The two largest cowardly attacks in human history were perpetrated against us (Pearl Harbor and 9/11). When attacked we WILL defend ourselves. An sometimes, the best defense is a good offense.

I realize in other countries that thoughts and ideas are not so freely expressed but, to just repeat the party line without really knowing what goes on in the world is so sad.

Oh my god that is the simplton would say that, I know you are not a politician you like to believe the good intention of america, any thing you said about why people come if america is so bad and people are jealous , is this the mind of an american( simplton) it is not what you want to believe it is pure politics of course you are an american you only hear the good things america does but you have to hear it from different prospective, it is not personal and I do not think people should kill americans it does not solve the problem but you should wake up and know that you do not live in this earth alone and protest your government your government does not care about you they send your kids to be killes. Like I said you want to believe the good things it is like your parents you do not want to believe they are bad (this is just an example, I am sure they are wonderful people) unless you go out side not being in an emotional state, I know there is war before america, I am against those extremist muslims I think they are very severe in their own religion I do not agree with the religion it self but this is not the point the point is you can not use every coountry to your advantage, so you know little bit about the soviet union and how they collapsed and please do not come back and have an attack on me and just act as a simplton american go and get more document and read a lot of history , I repeat it is not personal I just wish america become more educated about the world and stop being arrogant about it, my boyfriend is an american I just want to say that to let you know it is not personal

Ok, I see there is no point in discussing anything with you. You have a closed mind. You see only what you want to see or what the propagandists tell you.

Whether you believe it or not, I do see the warts. But I also see the good things. I survived 9/11 (I was in one of the towers that morning). I've seen the generosity and good heartedness of Americans. I am not blind to the excesses and abuses that we are also guilty of. You only see the bad and want to paint all Americans with the same brush. But you refuse to open your eyes to the facts. You accuse me of attacking you, when I have not come close to it. And then you make matters worse by attempting to insult me.

I was a political science major and am a history buff so I feel I know more than a bit about world history. If anyone needs to be educated, its you, I think you know very little about americans.

You are talking about the american individuals who like to believe that their conuntry is the best country and their policy as generous as they are inside and as the movies depicted it to others, I guess I was clear to say that americans should know what is going on from there country and to participate and to know every thing their government does, it is going to affect them sooner or later, and education has nothing to do with politics I know you are an educated man but do you really know any thing about why americans governmet is hated and please do not tell me it is jealousy I think we are not kids here we can have logical conversation , I repeat americans as individual are motivated by heroes from movies which is very good because as individuals they want to be good but do they know what they government is doing outside, that is was my only reason to write because I thought all americans live in this movies world and movies tell them their govrnment is so good to other nations and that is a shame you can not get your info from movies if you are scientist or a homeless you have to see different prospective, this is not attack on individuals american it is attack on their naivety because they are too victims of their government, do you know how many kids soldier died in the war? And please do not say they are defending their country americans and iraqees died in vain and who is to blame? The government, america is the most powrful country in the world and americans should have a say in what there government does like I said it is going to affect them and they should not clog their ears and just believe the good things. Do they stop and really think what our government did to be hated like that and for those people to come to our country and kill us? Think about it. I am not arguing for the sake of arguing I really believe that knowing the fact people in the most powerful country are powerful and can make change but by being believing one thing we are not going to have peace. Peace

You keep talking about me seeing things from a different perspective, yet you refuse to. And then you don't see how biased, closed minded and obtuse you are being. How many times do I have to say that I DO understand how Americans are perceived in other countries? How many times do I have to say that I know we have done things to deserve some of the antagonism you talk about?

But when are you going to get off your high horse and try looking at the facts for a change? Your perspective is just as, if not more skewed then you claim Americans are. Things are just not as black and white as you would like to believe. Until you try to view both sides as objectively as I try to, you are going to be off base.

Could you be more specific so I can understand your point,you do have a point or are you working for a terrorist cell, where everyone quotes the same line?

U do not get it do u? So what you think should happen to stop this chaos, I would love to hear what you think should happen or be done, kill every one threaten united states instead of go to the bottom of the matter? I really am eager to hear your answer

No you are the one who doesn't get it. You prove, each time you post, that you are close minded. I noticed you never responded to the point I raised about the tsunami. You can't since that doesn't fit into your narrow view of things.

I don't pretend to have a magic solution. I do know that the killing needs to stop on ALL sides. I do know that the terrorists and extremeists need to disavow their hate mongering and destructive agenda before any meaningful peace can be achieved. I do believe that people need to look for the good in others, not just see the bad (as you seem to do). And then try to work from positives instead of negatives.

I just have no clue how to make that happen.

Had to spread it around Scott but I agree. We know the right thing to do but how to do it is another matter. I think and hope the nut jobs who kill innocent people and themselves should be stopped and so far as hating the U S? That sounds like a lot of bitter feelings that have been ground into MUSH! I don't care at all how they feel and if Iran for example hates us so much they don't hesitate to take the aid we send after an earthquake. The middle east has never had peace so who's fault is that?

I don't care at all how they feel and if Iran for example hates us so much they don't hesitate to take the aid we send after an earthquake. The middle east has never had peace so who's fault is that?

This is one of the paradoxes of foreign policy that SHAHRAZAD refuses to open his (her?) eyes to. A lot of these countries have their right hands out asking for our help, while holding a hate placard in the left. If they hate us now, imagine the hue and cry were we to cut off aid and support.

If you do something good and turn to other side and do something horrible would that cancel the bad is that what you are saying? yeah united stated did somegood but can't u see the bad? vietnam, hiroshima, panama, chili, and so on doing something good does not erase the fact that you have a free pass to do damage somewhere else, I do not know what you all mean and argue about and refusing my point that americans have to be involved in any aspect in their government and the policy because policy is affecting any one when the government did some damage to other countries the pay back could be very harsh (september11) please watch ( the marshal law of the states), I am not close minded I happen to know facts

I will admit I'm having a hard time following your logic,but if your saying there are those that would try to kill americans that's not exactly a secret,but I doubt we will stick our heads in the sand especially since whatever they do to us payback WILL be harsh. The dates don't matter much. If you have any suggestions what we SHOULD be doing... I'm all ears and please go slow so my simpleton brain can follow.

I am sorry I do not mean to offend here but americans live in their world (and they have a right to be into themselves it a big big country and they did not feel the need to understand what is going on around the world actually most of them do not even know their government, I understand it a big country and the obsession is movie stars and show business and I think this is the time to know and defend themselves by going back to their government history and not to try to defend something they do not know about because the government does not want to show the bad pics to their people , like I said americans are not bad people I just hate the idea of defending something you have no idea what you talking about , think about it, if the government has bad policy around the world you do not say it does not concern u, I live in a peace country we all know from 9/11 we all vulnerable to any thing , and this thread started with a man is so upsetabout the treatment he got while he was serving them, and when every body went off on him it just hit me that you do not feel others pain you just want to defend and all americans like to be sympathetic why not here, I feel sympathy for every family lost a loved one due to politics and the people have the power to change that, so instead of defending try to know exactly what is going on then when you defend you are going to have solid argument, and I want to say about islamic fantic I think they are with out their hate to american they are nutcases due to being sooooo religious but they got a point though but actually this a defferent topic

You just don't get it do you. Vietnam? We were invited there by the South Vietnamese government. Hiroshima? What about Pearl Harbor? We were at war with Japan, a war of their own making. Were we supposed to let more Americans die in a drawn out war? Sorry, doesn't work that way. Panama? What about it? Are you referring to capturing Norieaga who was funneling drugs into our country? Chili? Americans love chili, especially in the Southwest.

Your betray a distinct lack of knowledge of American History and show an extremely biased and propagandized view of it. Are you actually justifying 9/11? Do you think a sneak attack that killed thousands of ordinary citizens was justified? I think you are referring to the Marshall Plan. This was a plan for the rebuilding of Europe after WWII. What about it. Have you ever read the Mouse That Roared? The premise of that was to attack and LOSE an war against the US so they would help rebuild the attacker. It was a satire, by the way.

You have NO idea what things are really like in the US, this is clear by your biased, misleading statements. You continue to ignore facts. Like why do so many people try to emulate western culture? Do we force blue jeans and rock and roll on other countries? No, they want it themselves.

When you learn what lifew is really like in the US, what the American people are really like, then maybe you can try discussing things with us. Right now you just don't have a clue.

I don't get it either. What do movie stars have to do with this? I don't know any and sure can't live by them.

I guess you donot have a clue and I think you are right wing because you refuse to know the negative and just believe what you know which is justified right by you and you will not listen to any one suffered from united states policy and by the same token if you are mad that united stated suffered from terrorist would you even admit that united states policy caused suffer elswhere, and for movies I mentioned I meant the culture here and the whole obssessin with movies would not allow people to look and be educated about other countries, and you say facts these are your facts, you live in the states you have not talked to people or know countries are suffered I mean you did not hear first hand that is why I suggested to hear other voices, you are the one who is very very close minded and your kind would not negotiate to have a solution you just want to be right and live by your right facts, and for 9/11 I do not justify any killing no matter what but all I was saying look at the root of the problem. With your kind we are not going to have peace in the world you just want to be right and would ignore others justified pain caused by specific policy.

The documentaries r, (martial law of the states, the control room, the illuminati, why we fight) and so many but with your attitude the war is not going to stop and [u have to have an opinion on every thing especially peace, do not say I do not know, and this exactlly how americans felt toward politics till they got 9/11, u should think of peace not just arguing and want to be right, I got nothing more to say here because having a discussion with a right wing person is so difficult to me, their mind is closed and you can not even see that what I am trying here is peace and you just want to be right does not matter what happened we can not change that but we can change the future

I got to tell you!! You have had every opportunity to make a point but all you have presented is generalities and inuendos. If you can bring specific facts to bear, we can have a dialog. Not a diatribe that you seem to prefer. So the ball is in your court, give us facts to back up your rhetoric or.. And who are you calling right wing? Do you even understand what that is? Or are you just repeating something you heard in terrorist school? Again what policies have caused harm to you or others that justify whatever it is your ranting about. Where do you live anyway? I am trying to understand but you aren't helping at all.

Believe me know what right wing is and I do no think( from what you insiunate) it is not about words or about appearing(know it all) I am not mad but your posts are missing the point getting in any details here there is no space and you would argue the facts from your comfortable place but this is not the point the point is , do you want peace then you have to listen to other nations and see things from different angles I know you want to be patriatic and emotional about your country by just defending but would that solve any things , and for you to say I am in terrorist school it kind of funny it is the easiest and the closest thing to say if someone just try to have you watch and listen to different documentaries. I know the drive here is patriotism and emotions but I think the real patriodic is the one is going to be objecteve and try to have solutions instead of blind patriotism, and it is not personal with me do not make that way, by arguing with me would not change what is going on it does not matter who is right here in this forum what matter is from this forum would people want really to have peace, I am not attacking any one but I feel you just want to argue and be right and you are going to justify any thing to your so called patriotism but would that help? Who is the real patriodic the one who is driven by emotions and just add more fuel to the problem or the one who is trying to be objective and see things for different angle believe me if you think that way that would not make you a treason but I think the opposite (do not be scared, I know what happened to dixie chics for what they said and how it is taken you think that was right to attack them which natalie said was right)insead of just hating and wanting to be right try to see and hear from different nations, I know they are fanatic but through that you have to find what the problem why these fanatic religious do what they do, and for the hating it goes both ways I think hate is blind and would only fuel the chaos

Whhhhhhhooooooooo Shahrazad I do believe that it is now time to calm down.
Your sentence structure, or lack of it, shows a very angry person.
Also at the bottom of the posting box are three buttons, one is a spell checker, please, for the sake of our sanity, use it.
That is all.

That is not the point, I think it is childish to go off topic to find something you can relate to, because you do not have a point or this the only thing you can talk about to find unrelated flaws , and if I made a mistake, I do not have a point? and by that all those other nations who do not speak english they do not have points and do not have a right to have their opinion heard? See the big pic, I think only kids would do that and why would you think am angery if you read my posts you would understand am not mad at any one I just want the world to be peacful and for you and come and mock whatever you relate to is weak, I am not trying to offend any one but you take it personally and I started thinking we will never have peace just from the a few persons who are missing the point here and just want to argue just to be right and have no idea how they can contribute evey body is responsible for world peace every body is affected and every body opinion counts, nations are individuals, just see the big pic and just ignore me as a person it has nothing to do with me persnally for you to say whatever you think is pleasing you at the moment and not related would not change that what is going on, I am only want people to know that every bosy counts, people can change regimes if they take it seriously and fairly

U just proved what adiket( I think, the gentleman who started the thread) said

Shahrazad,
Two things;
1/ I'm NOT American or even a resident of that continent
2/ Please pay attention to my position on this site, it's written under my name.

The use of simple sentences makes your diatribes (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=diatribe) easier to read for everyone.

Didn't Forrest say gibberish is as gibberish does?

Cyber I does not matter if you are american or not I do not hate individual americans I have been their many times and I think they are very nice but I thought what I was saying was clear and val what are you talking about do you know what I am saying? Attack in any way will not solve any thing but openness will , and for every one here missing my point and divert to other things in my post irrelevant that shows that there is no point in talking about understanding other nations and even radical americans you will call them traitors, I guess I am done here and I hoped every body would get what was trying to say here and advocate peace bigotry will not do that

I think many beauty queens have been hoping for World Peace for a long time. However, I learned one time, Philosophy I think it was that a utopian society is not possible and can even be more dedstructive to the human being as a whole.

but i thought what i was saying was clear Four people have now said that your ranting is NOT very clear. Maybe it's a language issue, maybe its your use of Internet shorthand and lack of use of a spellcheck. But your post are not very coherent or clear.



attack in any way will not solve any thing but openness will ,

So practice what you preach. Try being open to what other people are telling you instead of continuing to spout the same tired propaganda.


that shows that there is no point in talking about understanding other nations and even radical americans u will call them traitors, i guess i am done here and i hoped every body would get what was trying to say here and advocate peace bigotry will not do that

The irony here is that YOU are the one promoting bigotry not peace by your spouting generalizations and propaganda, instead of trying to learn from people with real knowledge and experience.


i guess u donot have a clue and i think u r right wing because u refuse to know the negative

Who are ypou responding to? Couldn't be me since I am no where near the right. How do you know I haven't had first hand contact with the people you state have been wronged? You continue to ignore everything I have said about understanding and acknowledging the wrongs that Americans have done.

I have answered most of your diatribes point by point. You, on the other hand, dodge most of the counterpoints I've tried to make.

You refer to martial law, what about it? Most countries have rules allowing for martial law. Most of the rare occasions martial law is invoked in the US its because of natural disasters. What about the illuminati? They are an anti-Christian group that originated in Europe!

All you have accomplished with diatribes like that is to show people who really know the facts that YOU don't.

Language is not the issue here or spelling check if this is the issue all those leaders who does not speak good english would not make their point across, there are other language and people still manage to understand each other politically and I just want to say, that val and j9 I really liked your advises on other posts I got good advises, I know I am not a good typist and I do not like to proof read what I typed but I still can, can't I and I understandable? How I am a bigot if all I want from you is just take a look at different perspectives and all you want to know and believe is your info which you got from where? from someone like u

i know i am not a good typist and i do not like to proof read what i typed but i still can, can't i and i understandable?

I am sorry, but it is not "understandable."

As a proof reader for many years, I have come to learn that a comma in the wrong place can change the entire meaning of the subject. If you intend to get your point across it is best that you do use the spell check as well as trying to stay away from your method of "shorthand."

Maybe that is one of the reasons everyone is taking what you said in a way that you may not have meant.

You're right language is not the issue, unless you make it one. But your disjointed diatribes HAVE made it part of the issue, since it has become increasing difficult to decipher what you are saying.

The reason you appear to be bigitted is not because you are trying to get us to see different perspectives, but because you refuse to do the same. Through this whole exchange, you have steadfastly stuck to the same line, despite points made to the contrary that you have refused to deal with, besides rants that are out of left field with little fact to back them up.

Looking at things from different perspectives is a two way street. If you ask us to do so, then you need to do so too.

You are right I have one line and you know what that is? And I think this one line is every thing

j9 sorry I meant (I think it is understandable), I missed (I think) but a lot of people in other threads make spelling mistake when they ask for different kind of advises and no body get on their throat and you all understand what they trying to say not every body is a good typist or a good speller why is it here instead of doing the same on other post you pick on things are not related, why can't u be consistent? I am sure what I was saying was clear because how could you answer if it was not?

Well, I do not really understand. I have to read through all of the rhetoric. If you "know" me, I am in the medical field, so I read the medical "terms" rather than the whole paragraph.

But what I have seen so many say to you and others on this thread is that they are having a hard time reading your internet speech, I don't mean to steal that from ScottGem, but he is right.

Correct use of punctuation and capitalization make your statements much clearer.

Politically and legally incorrect use of grammar can cause an idea turn into something that you do not mean to say.

For this thread it would be easier on the eye of the reader to use the word "you" rather than the letter u, the same with "are" instead of r.

And not to be mistaken, but those of us here, ScottGem and others (I hope) will agree that we ask to type not in internet "shorthand" but in real words so that your point will get across in the exact meaning intended.

I pick on everyone's chat-speak style when I run into it and I have seen many others complain of long diffficult-to-read posts, not just with you, with plenty of others too. So there goes that theory... LOL

1. What part of the world are you from?
2. What are your specific gripes with America?
3. How can you bring about world peace?
4. Can you answer questions that are simply put?
5. How can we understand you?
6. Are you on medication or alcoholic beverage (seriously)?
7. What is your real point?
8. Do you have any learning disabilities?
I only ask these question to find out why I can't understand your points that you make or anything else you've posted, Sorry please clarify.

That is funny, and I do not think you will understand because it was very simple what I was saying

Try answering those questions in plain english, if you dare. LOL
I think to hide behind the notion that we won't understand is a cowardly way to chicken out.

Its either that or here's another one thriving on any attention it can get... :eek:

that is funny, and i do not think u will understand because it was very simple what i was saying

Ok, what you appear to be saying is that Americans, for the most part, don't understand how they are perceived in the world at large. That Americans should try to see how other peoples feel about them. You are also saying that America is hated in other parts of the world because of some (unclearly stated) wrongs we have (allegedly) committed.

Do I have that right?

If so, I say to you (again) that I (for one) acknowledge that several countries do hate us. I also acknowledge that we have made foreign policy mistakes that have resulted in that hatred. I also acknolwedge, that Americans can be arrogant and overbearing in their dealings with other peoples.

But, I also say that is a one sided argument. Though it contains many truths its not the whole truth. And until you do what you ask us to do (look at things from both sides)m then your point is going to be swallowed by your narrow mindedness and bigotry.

Try answering those questions in plain english, if you dare. LOL
I think to hide behind the notion that we won't understand is a cowardly way to chicken out.

Its either that or here's another one thriving on any attention it can get.... :eek:

My sentiments exactly... :eek: :eek:

Scott I thought your are not an american, but any way I am glad you got some of what I said whatever you said about how americans are preceived around the world is just translated in this forum, I felt I was repeating myself many time just to say one thing because you refuse to hear any thing negatvie about america or even admit it for the fear of being not patriatic , I finally getting my point acroos and talaman why would I seek attention while I am not even visible? All I wanted to say was said and I hope all the people see things differently and fairy so we can have some kind of peace I know like j9 said it may be impossible but at least we try and I think the people make it impossible, peace

Oh that was val who said I like attention, any way I hate to say it but (typical)the arrogance just translated here and what questions are you say that I have to answer, these naïve questions, if I was those things you think this the point. You can make up your opinion about me of being drunk or whatever but still I find asking someone these question you know no body is answering is kind of simple minded, and you think you are mocking me actually you are doing exactly the reverse , because I want you all to see the big pic, be fair, know that every body counts in world peace and contribute u trying to mock, I do not get humiliated ( it is not personal people), and if you think I am drunk, some drunks see one thing clear that you the sober one can nitor do not want, lol. Let me ask you a question , asking you to be fair and learn about other nations and how american policy affected them and world peace not just for america because any thing is connected is that drunkenness or whatever else talaman said.

I give up. LOL

Shahrazad,

It is not the "people" that makes world peace impossible, it is human nature. There is no way that we can ever get as many people who are in the world to agree on one idea or another. This is a statistical impossibility.

That is why we must agree to disagree. I like that you agree with me, but there are so many people here who have either directly, or indrectly, experienced September 11, 2001, and we all have our viewpoints. That is why we must agree to disagree.

Also, I do not directly agree with your viewpoint. There we go again with how it is impossible to get everyone to agree.

There is no way to get a World "Group Hug" Everyone has a different opinion. If you want WORLD PEACE, understand that everyone has their OWN OPINIONS and we may not agree with that.

scott i thought your are not an american, but any way i am glad u got some of what i said whatever u said about how americans are preceived around the world is just translated in this forum, i felt i was repeating my self many time just to say one thing because u refuse to hear any thing negatvie about america or even admit it for the fear of being not patriatic , i finally getting my point acroos and talaman why would i seek attention while i am not even visible? all i wanted to say was said and i hope all the people see things differently and fairy so we can have some kind of peace i know like j9 said it may be impossible but at least we try and i think the people make it impossible, peace

This just shows that you haven't been paying attention. It was Ben who said he isn't an American. I've made it clear that I am. I have been saying the SAME thing since you started participating in this thread. I have never refused to listen to your point as you have refused to listen to ours. So if you are just now understanding what I've been saying it because you haven't been listening. I said from the very beginning that I am aware of how we are perceived outside this country and some of the reasons. So for you to say you are finally getting your point across is ridiculous. You have been repeating yourself because you haven't been paying attention to what has been said to you.

We have been listening to what you have had to say. I've just proven that. Now lets put the shoe on the other foot. Why not try reading and attempting to understand what we have said. Why not answer the specific counterpoints we have made instead of just repeating the same tired rhetoric.

You said that we should understand the root cause of 9/11. So tell us what you think that is. Explain to us what horrors America has done that would cause someone to commit mass murder!

Oh and try to do so, by writing like an adult, not some kid who writes like he's text messaging on a cell phone all the time.

Well, since this is in Members Discussions I could not comment Scott.

So I will do so now

WHAM BAM THANK YOU SCOTT!!

YOU HIT THE HEAD RIGHT ON THE FREAKING TARGET!!

U said you were in 9/11 and americans were generous to you so I assumed you are not american, and are you waiting for me to say here every thing? I thought I told you to watch the documentaries I sugested and I am not trying to make 9/11 less tragic than it is, I think, which I did not want to say that you all proved the first post on this thread and if you think my post is not written well is just avoiding the issue and sometimes you can get ideas from kids, lol. Adios

There are people in this world that are "drunk" on hatred for the USA. They won't see things any other way, no matter what other contradictory information is present.

I'm not an American. I can sympathize with the fact that the USA does sometimes "throw its weight around" at the expense of others. Of course I don't like that, and while I may be annoyed with the USA in general at various points in time, I certainly do not wish for "America to be punished" or harbor any hate for individual Americans.

I had a room-mate in university that would actually jump up and cheer anytime she saw a news story in which Americans were killed. She - and her friends - had that "drunk on hatred for the USA" attitude. That made me absolutely sick - but it taught me a valuable lesson about people who are "drunk on hatred".

u said u were in 9/11 and americans were generous to u so i assumed u r not american, and r u waiting for me to say here every thing? i thought i told u to watch the documentaries i sugested and i am not trying to make 9/11 less tragic than it is, i think, which i did not want to say that u all proved the first post on this thread and if u think my post is not written well is just avoiding the issue and sometimes u can get ideas from kids, lol. adios

I haven't a clue what I said would make you think I wasn't an american. I don't think I've said anything that wouldn't have indicated I'm not.

Just like I figured. When challenged to put up or shut up, you shut up.

I have never discounted anyone's opinions simply on the basis of age. I have treated you seriously and courteously, even though your writing has been juvenile and your writing style indicates a young age. However, a number of the issues being discussed here require some worldly experience to make intelligent comment. Being of a young age would, necessarily, limit that experience. Other factors like the lack of understanding of certain historical events and cultural issues also demonstrate a lack of experience.

But the real issue, that negates any good you might have done with your points, is your refusal to stand behind your position and back it up with facts. Plus your refusal to deal with any specific counterpoints made.

So, in the end, what we see is a kid who has been fed a lot of propaganda and saw an opportunity to spread that propaganda around. This, then, takes away from any value in your message and generally negates it.


There are people in this world that are "drunk" on hatred for the USA. They won't see things any other way, no matter what other contradictory information is present.

Hatred is a base and usually irrational emotion.

What you say is very true. People who hate like that are basically brainwashed. They have been force fed a line of propaganda, helped along by some of the mistakes made by American policies and actions. Such people exult in hating without examining why they hate.

She didn't even have the courtesy to spell my name right, that proves beyond a doubt she knows nothing about the American way!

Well I guess this a typical american way!! if I am a kid and as you say I do not have experience would that matter if what I am saying is toward something I believe would make a difference and it is not propaganda I am affected by it is truth and I thought americans are unaware and actually innocent and they need to know that because they have power ( being the biggest and powerful country) but from this forum I think if they (some, I don't want to generalize)) do they will not believe it and philly I do not hate individual americans if I was I was not going to have an american boyfriend, and talaniman is the spelling right? U knew I meant u, u seem to find other things to pick up on and make it your primerly argument, I think somebody call me here shah, would I say oh no you have to say my whole name? This is childish, and scott I told you to watch other documentaries but you do not want you just want to take personally with me, did you know long time ago what america did to algadafi and how his daughter was killed and do not give the old american government justification, every time they attack other countries they say we want to protect the people form this fascist he bad for their country and united state is coming to your home to correct that, and do you know how the soviet union really collasped and when bill clinton when he was in a mess in his scandel how he tried to divert the attention by sending a missile to sudan to hit a pharmaceutical factory and the justification was he thought it was for chemical weapons a lot of innocent poor people died in that and now iraq and the funny thing is that all with good intentions right, I am not denying good things but that would not deny the bad

iam saying is toward something i believe would make a difference and it is not propaganda i am affected by it is truth and i thought americans r unaware and actually innocent and they need to know that because they have power ( being the biggest and powerful country)

Well there is just an example. You have somehow got this idea that Amercians are unaware and innocent. But that's not a true reflection of Americans in general. Sure there are plenty who follow our leaders blindly. Look how many still support Bush! But, in my experience, Americans are more aware and worldly then ever before.


scott i told u to watch other documentaries but u do not want u just want to take personally with me, did u know long time ago what america did to algadafi and how his daughter was killed and do not give the old american government justification, every time they attack other countries they say we want to protect the people form this fascist he bad for their country and united state is coming to your home to correct that, and do u know how the soviet union really collasped and when bill clinton when he was in a mess in his scandel how he tried to divert the attention by sending a missle to sudan to hit a pharmaceutical factory and the justification was he thought it was for chemical weapons alot of innocent poor people died in that and now iraq and the funny thing is that all with good intentions right, i am not denying good things but that would not deny the bad

Why do I need to watch these documentaries (not that I won't or haven't)? Why can't you you just state your opinions. You are the one bringing this up.

Are you referring to the head of Libya (algadafi)? The one who funded and encouraged many acts of terrorism? As I recall his daughter got killed in a RETALIATORY attack. So?

"every time they attack other countries". Other than Iraq, when did America ever attack other countries? Every other war we have been involved in America or her allies was attacked first!

I believe I do know how the Soviet Union collapsed, but I'd be interested in hearing why YOU think it happened.

One of the things I like about Clinton, is that he was, for the most part, able to keep his personal life separate from his presidency. You claim the attack in Sudan was just done to divert attention from the Lewinsky mess. What proof do you have of that?

Again, I challenge you to deal with each counterpoint. So far you haven't strayed from your one-sided, propaganda fueled appraoch.

You still haven't said where you come from and I've seen your documentaries and so what? If Gadafi had not aided and abetted terrorism he wouldn't have been bombed end of that. A lot of innocent poor people always die when some slum lord oil dictator thinks he can take over the world and destroy or convert everyone to his rule. Some people just ain't going for it, and they will meet the same fate as innocent and the innocent and soon to be innocent who hide in among the innocent and everyone says oh woe is me. I've me a break if people would heed the warning and turn these jokers in you think they would have to tear up whole towns to get them to STOP shooting bombs at Israel? And if America is so bad does that make the middle east so good? As a matter of fact, what good do they do themselves or the world where they can even say the U.S. is so bad.

Scott, about gadafi that america was scared of him supporing terror did he come to america to kill he just had oil and some power over that and every thing is about oil, america imposed economic sanction on a lot of countries for bullies reasons , and for clinton it does not matter if he wanted to divert or no it just shows the power with disrespect to other countries america has, I talked to the people who lost relatives in that attack and it was senseless, in 11/9 those fanatic think it is justifiable because they lost close relative because of american policy what about what clinton did, it was without strong evidence and the response was oops we had info that was chemical weapons factory just like going into iraq again oops our info was wrong that is why I say america government is bully, they just say oops, and soviet union was powerful as america and communist. It all happened with gorbatchof who was duped ( I am not sure this is the right spelling) yes the soviet union was suffering financially but america's agenda was to destroy the competitor power even a previous secertray of the states wrote a book I am not sure what it is called but it has to do how to destroy communism, it was a battle between too powers and america wants to be the only power, gadafi was supported by the soviet union, and has weapons support from them that how america thought he had power and had to teach him a lesson actually it was simple as that, these are gadafi's words, if I say more I guess I gathered you will find your own excuse for american government, it is not about defending the past because no matter what you say or defend it happened and there are people know the truth first hand, by admitting and knowing the problem things could be fixed but by denying is not going to resolve any thing, wouldn't u be mad if some one try to make 9/11 less tragic or dispute the fact that innocent people died? At a personal level if some one come to you and say you did this to me and you cause me pain you think you would say you needed a lesson and I hope now you got it , u think that would stop that person from being angery and retaliate even in a bigger way when they get a chance and little power, deny someone's pain just because you are powerful and abusing it is not the answer, and what is going on with israel and plastine america's position is clearly biased, why would you think a 10 year old girl would be suicide bomber or you just brudh it off by saying she is just a little terrorist come on be fair and and consistente in fairness and sympathey, and taltniman why would you want to know where part of the world I am from would is that relevant?

More propaganda. Gadafi sponsored several acts of terrorism against Americans. The Pan Am flight that crashed near Lockerbie, Scotland was just one of them. Economic sanctions were imposed by the UN, not just the US.

First you claim Clinton attacked the plant to divert attention, then you say that isn't the issue. But the plant was attacked because intelligence showed it was being used to make chemical weapons. It had nothing to do with disrespect. It was part of the war against terrorism. Granted we should have done a better job in confirming the intelligence, but if the terrorists weren't consistently on the attack, there wouldn't be a need to defend. And it goes back to what Talaniman has been saying. If the countries and the people within them, harbor the terrorists, then they are going to pay the consequences.

I have said, in other places, that I never supported the Iraq war. That's one of the few places you have some fact and reason to support your point. But then 9/11 directly led to the Iraq war. If it hadn't been for 9/11, Bush would have never gotten the support to do it.

Boy have you got it wrong. It was the publicly stated goal of the Soviet Union to bury the US and the west. Look up Kruschev. The only thing keeping the USSR from attacking the US was the balance of power. The USSR instigated many skirmishes during the Cold War. The USSR fell because communism had failed as an economic system. Through the use of worldwide communications (specifically the Internet), Russian people began to see all the advantages of the west. They compared it to the little that had. The US contribution was simply to make information open to all. The Soviet Union collapsed on its own weight primarily from the inside. It was the Soviet Union that wanted to be the only world power, not the US. While there hae always been hawks in the US who feared the USSR, most people were perfectly willing to peacefully co-exist.

So, as I suspected you are being fed propaganda and are swallowing it hook, line and sinker. But you keep putting the cart before the horse. You seem to think that the US has committed some huge offense in the Arab world that justifies everything that follows. Yet you haven't been able to provide any clue of that.

Well I can tell you what it is. The US has supported Isreal. That's it, that's our big crime. The arabs have tried, on several occasions to bury Isreal and failed. Partially because of US support. So the arabs hate the US. That has led to their acts of terrorism.

Let me tel you I was in ussr and I know how things were in term of communism dictator and how it was no life for them interms of having more money or even having a pair of american jeans they did not have colorful life like americans did so they wanted that andit was economic collapse but you will not deny that direct or indirect america has a hand into it after ussr collapse now there no balance in powerthe us can do whatever pleases and then oops it was not like that when ussr had power. The soviet union suppored a lot of countries and these countries were a battle field between these two powers so there was war beside the cold one, you just want to have the US so innocent in the collapse I think you just believe like in the movies america are the good guy and you will not believe any thing and gadafi was supported by soviet union just like the war in afganista it was a battle field for them, and the factory in sudan that factory was in the middle of a resident area so please do not tell me it was suspected, if it was then the CIA is child investigation, you keep denying any thing like I said you will defend if you even hear it first hand, and the un and anan became a joke they are maneuvered by the us all I am saying has nothing to do with the media I have been in all those countries

When are you going to read what I say? I did not deny that we had a hand in the USSR's collapse, I even mentioned part of what that hand was. I do deny that we did anything directly to bring it about. Sure the Sudan factory was located in a residential area. That is a typical terrorist tactic. Try to protect the assets because they believe the US is too squeamish to attack in such an instance. Doesn't matter that they are putting innocent lives at risk!

Yes the USSR supported a lot of countries, but their demands for that support were a lot greater then where the US provided support. You don't talk about the USSR invasion of Afghanistan. What was the justification of that? At least the US had the pursuit of those behind 9/11 as justification.

No, I don't deny anytrhing you say, but you are spouting a load of half thruths, innuendo and propaganda. Notice that every time I respond with actual truths, you have to back off a bit.

SHAHRAZAD, I would like to know what part of the world you are from to try and identify the terrorist cell you are in contact with and the dictator who feeds you the misinformation and propadanda you have so tirelessly been aspousing on this forum. Also in the laws of nature When the big DAWG walks down the street the little pups stay on the porch. Now get with the program and have an intelligent dialog and leave that spoon-fed rhetoric to the dummies who believe it. I hope you grow up and find the truth for yourself and join the world community that what's peace, happiness, and respect. Till then just get your facts straight and use the computer you obviously have for a more constructive ppurpose than spewing garbage. And get the spelling right TALANIMAN!!

The engine to the spewing of the half truths and propaganda is that "yous guys" keep responding to it like it was a real debate :rolleyes:... look back and see the pattern for yourself:

More half truths and propaganda...

More reasoning discussion...

More half truths and propaganda...

More reasoning discussion...

More half truths and propaganda...

Reasoning discussion...

Half truths and propaganda...

Val,
I know you think we are feeding this by responding, but I think we are helping by debunking the propaganda. We probably will not be able to put a dent in Shahrizad's armor, but there may be other people, more open to truth, who may learn.

Okie dokie Scott

What half truth are you saying you are just are what you are and you are going to come back with this converstion tactics (typical) and taliman you just make me laugh, and for ussr invading afganistan I think it was not right and it was dictatorship although I was a communist at a time but I do not think if I was a communist I should support something I know it is wrong just because I belong to that party, I condemn any thing I belong too if they go against what I believe if it is my country or party not just because I belong I have to be blind and justify and just follow, and may be you should all listen to what val said and do not answer and I bet she does not know a thing I was talking about I guess she is just being patriotic! it is not about grammar and spelling and just arguing, and talitman I think you mentioned that a lot of innocet people are going to die when there is a conflict and that the way it is, do feel the same way about 9/11? Like I said your tactics in converstion and where you go and attack which is irrelevant and accuse of half truth and you know exactly what I am saying but I think this is the american way.

I don't have anything else to do this week but to disparage you yes I admit I could just unsubscibe from this thread and move on but the more stuff you write the sicker you look so for now till I have something better or you get a legitimate life the beat goes on...

oh talanman u do not have to unsubscribe, u all proved one thing and there nothing more ot prove so do not unsubscribe i will feel guilty if i make u go away from a forum u love there is no need so please stay!!!!!! and any way there nothing mosr i have to say to all of u

That's the whole point the world hates us but can never make us go away that is the American way to keep hanging on because we love you that's all. Just think if we didn't have to fight and could have one big party everywhere in the world... ahhhhhhhhhhh!! Now, who's sounding crazy??

I'm out, the last rant is just so disjointed as to be indecipherable. I also have trouble believing the story being told us. The use of Internet shorthand indicates a juvenile, yet we are being asked to believe this person is well traveled and knowledgeable.

Doesn't work for me.

The first post was about racist americans. Could a person be arrogant, bigot and racist and refuse to admit that even if they show in his or her action and words indirectly because these adjectives are not good? And scott you make me look up in the dictionary you have good vocabulary, I learned big words from u.I always want to learn and please do not tell me that learn how not to write shorthand, americans invented shorthand writing you even changed the spelling for words to make it easier (color-colour) I got only this right now but I guess you were right in that I liked it, why the you in there I couldn't get it no need for it, actually a lot of silent letters in words I could not get why they are there if they are not pronounced ,mmm just a thought