I will try to make this as brief as possible... although it's a long story. 6 months ago I had to move my Mother and her dying husband from VA to FL. My daughter, who lives about 35 miles from me, wanted her grandemother to live near her, citing that she would have more time to help them than I would. So we got them settled and no sooner than that my daughter announced that she was divorcing her husband. They have 4 children together... ages 5,4 and 1yr old twins. My daughter had not finished her education and wanted to go back to college and do that. My husband (not her father) agreed that it would be best for her and the kids to come and stay with us while she was in school... as we could help financially and with the care of the children. We spent six weeks working day and night to remodel our home and add another bedroom to accommodate 5 additional people. This took us a little longer than we had originally planned and when I told my daughter that she would need to let her husband know she was not going to be moving out of their house for an additional week she got very upset with me. I am used to this kind of attitude from her and just blew it off as there wasn't anything that could be done to speed along the process. The ultimate goal was to have them moved and settled before the school year started, which we did. We spent about $20,000 to do this work to the home, in addition to paying for her move. After moving in she never seemed to have any gratitude for what we did to help, it was more of an attitude that it was owed to her... again typical. Although stressful at times we enjoyed having my daughter and the grandkids here. We have always spent much time together and the kids have spent the night at our house since they were just babes. After moving them in we noticed that my daughter was very stressed out and not dealing with the kids very well... constantly yelling at them etc. Forgetting that their little world had just been turned upside down. She (my daughter) was also constantly talking negatively about the children's father with them around. I was always asking her not to do that, because although they don't appear to be listening... they do hear everything you say. She would always get defensive and tell me not to tell her how to parent her kids and that she knew what she was doing and what was best for them. Then my mother had a heart attack. I had to go and be with her and help with her husband who is at home under hospice care with terminal cancer. I was gone for 4 days but talked to everyone at home daily with updates on everyone. The second day I was gone I got a text message from my daughter saying that "if these babies don't stop crying or start sleeping i am seriously going to hurt them....I am DONE!" I know she didn't mean it but also knew her stress level was so high with the divorce and worrying about this new phase in her life. My husband took a couple days off work to help her with the 4 year old as he was out of school for 2 days. They spent the 2 days hanging out - doing guy stuff and being "partners!" It was a great two days for them. Then the 4th day my husband was going to take the two older kids to the park as he noticed that it was Sunday and they had not even so much as gotten dressed all weekend. He asked my daughter and she said yes. He asked the kids to make their beds and pick up while he showered. By the time he got out of the shower my grandaughter was hiding in bed with her head covered and my daughter had the 4 year old boy in the corner screaming obsenities at him because apparently he was not putting the toys away correctly. My husband came into the children's bedroom, took my daughter by the arm and was trying to get her out of the room to cool down. As my daughter is known to do... she went off in a rage at him. She called me while I was at the hospital with my mother and said just tell him to leave me alone and not to parent my kids. She was wscreaming and yelling and just totally out of control. Long story a bit shorter, the police were called, they spoke with both of them. I had heard this via the phone still and figured my husband would go to jail as that is what would normally happen just to defuse the situation... not that anyone was right or wrong. Well, no one went to jail. The police got to see first hand when my daughter snapped in front of them. My husband left the house until I got home. Apparently my daughter took the kids and went to a girlfriends house 40 miles away but was home when I got back after getting my mother settled in at home. When I came she was with a baby and the older kids came and told me what happened. The same story that my husband told me. When my daughter appeared she only wanted to show me some emails etc that she had gotten out of her husbands acct. It was an hour later before she attempted to speak to me about what happened, and she didn't have much to say. The next morning while getting the kids ready for school, and before I was up, she snuck the kids out of the house and I have not been allowed to see them since that time. Essentially her feelings are that as long as my husband is in my life her and the kids won't be. Her words were that " I was going to be the one to suffer" Meaning she knows how to hurt me by witholding the grandchildren. It has been 90 days today since I saw the kids last. I have had a couple of times to see my daughter, when she came to get her things, but she didn't even acknowledge me when she was here.

I have tried and tried to get her to see things clearly... but she can only see things her way. It has been suggested to my by two differently mental health counselors that she sounds like she has boarderline personality disorder. And anyone who knows her also know that she is very narcisissictic. I can occasionally get her to respond to a text message but it never gets us anywhere. I have never gone more than a week or two without seeing the kids, and even then we would talk on the phone. It has been 90 days today since I last saw them. The day after they left they were in a hotel and my grandaughter callled me that morning at 630 and said "i'm sorry i woke you up but i wanted to talk to you" She got in trouble for calling me and has no doubt been scared to deather to call me again. I am quite sure that my daughter has said all kinds of bad things about my husband and myself in front of the kids, just like she was doing about their father. I keep saying that I am done trying to make contact and fix this but then a week goes by and I try again. It feels like my heart has just been ripped out of my chest and stomped all over. A new wound every time I try and get rejected.

Here's the deal, as I wasn't in the house when the altercation happened I have to listen to all sides and make my own conclusions. My grandaugters story matched my husbands. My daughte won't say what started it only that he was wrong to "touch" her... even in defense of the kids. My husband has offered to take a polygraph. My daughter won't respond. I think it's important to know that my daughter at the age of 17 was in an abusive relationship. I know she has always regretted not standing up for herself at that time and not pressing charges. Now it would seem my husband is going to pay the price for that relationship as well. Although she did try to press charges and the police dismissed her.

I am so caught in the middle between them all. I miss my grandkids so terribly. This was the first year I didn't trick or treat with them, have christmas together and we are now getting ready to enter into a new year. I don't even care anymore if she wants to be mad as my husband... there is no point in punishing me. But she says, as long as we are together then I will talk to him and show him pictures and she wants him to have none of that. I don't know what else I can do. I don't want to spend the rest of my life like this... I don't want to be without the kids... but it seems I can do nothing to change it. And worse yet it seems that my daughter gets pleasure out of knowing that she is hurting me... or as she says "making me suffer."

Any suggestions, I'm open! Thanks and sorry for such a long post.

Hi Grammy, I read through your post the hard way and may I suggest you re-write your post in a calm manner. I think you will be happier presenting your problem in a condensed manner which will be easier for our members to understand and reply. :)

Ms tickle

Hi Grammy, I read through your post the hard way and may I suggest you re-write your post in a calm manner. I think you will be happier presenting your problem in a condensed manner which will be easier for our members to understand and reply. :)

ms tickle

I apologised for it being a long post but I truly was in no way uncalm while writing this. I just think it is difficult to understand without all the facts and perhaps I am not the best writer when emotions are involved.

Do you feel your grandchildren are in any danger at this time? Are you concerned at all about their well being? What is your gut reaction?

I can feel your pain and understand to well how you feel. But it is unfair of your daughter to be forcing you to make a choice between your husband, and your daughter and grandchildren. She needs help. It sounds like you have a wonderful husband. I personally feel she wants to hurt everyone and make them as unhappy as she obviously is. You have a lot of love to give, for now how about sharing it by helping those kids in facilities by being a surrogate granny. Might help your pain and definitely will help some kids in need

I think the key is the borderline personality disorder as you've been told by the counsellors. I really applaud you for going to seek some assistance, it is not an easy thing to do, and made even worse by knowing there is little chance that she thinks she has a problem.

I do not doubt for an instant that you and your husband have acted appropriately. The problem with people like your daughter is, they are very manipulative and controlling. There is no middle ground, or compromising, or understanding anothers point of view. They are right, all the time, without question. Nor do they accept criticism well, even if it is done in the best possible way. She doesn't have the problem in other words, everybody else does.

If she is able to manage on her own, out of your home, perhaps that is the best thing right now- for you, and your husband. It is more likely than not, that at some point, the authorities will be involved when your daughter is reported by school teacher, neighbour, or friend who witnesses what you have. She does not reserve her behaviour only in your presence, others have seen it as well, and will continue to, until she realizes she needs help.

You must think of yourself here in my opinion, and your husband. If you can live without your daughter, and arrange to have visits with the children, that would be in their best interests, and would certainly be good for you as well. See if this can be done legally through the court, to establish visitation. I don't know where you are, but many places will accommodate caring grandparents.

You are in a very difficult situation, but hopefully, you can reestablish a relationship with the grandchildren, and weather the emotional storms of your daughter when she is forced to comply.

Good luck to you, I hope you post with how you're making out.

Thank you to all who have posted. I have kept up to date on responses but just not had the time or energy to re-post. So this is an update.

To DulaLC- I have never felt that the children were in any physical danger, it is more about what is happening to them mentally.

To Jake2008- YOu are correct, she is NEVER wrong and it really seems that she has to spend her life angry at someone... guess it is now my husbands turn. We have no grandparents right where we live so nothing that can be done legally. The good news is that over the past 2 weeks I have been allowed to see the children. I had mixed emotions as I felt like I was betraying my husband and letting my daughter win but my husband does not want me to loose that relationship or contact with them and he is OK with it. Things are strained and far from the same relationship that my daughter and I shared previously but, I am hoping that it is baby steps and that some day things will be more back to "normal." But for now I will be satisfied with weekly visits... it's far better than nothing and not even knowing if they are all doing well.

Thank you all again. I will keep you posted on the progress.

Grammy,
I read all of your story and I could see the scenarios in my mind. It breaks my heart that your family has gone through all of this, but who suffers? The children of the mother, who is going though a divorce and trying to put her life back together. She is stressed out, does not know what to do.
At the same time she sounds like my daughter-- stubborn, opinionated, spoiled, manipulative and just plain vindictive!
I have not spoken with my daughter in almost a year, nor have I seen her; the same with my only brother and my Mom.
Let me tell you a shortened version and you will understand. I had my daughter at 28, raised her by myself on a secretary's pay-- her father was absent, but paid occasional child support. We moved around with my jobs a lot, but she never went without and I gave her everything she wanted that I could. I got married at 48 for the first time-- her and my husband became enemies, but my husband still tried with her. I had her and my 46 yo brother living in my 2 bdrm 1 bath house. My husband bought us a 4 bdrm 2 ba and invited my daughter and brother to live there. We could not get a job there so my husband did contracts and we would travel and stay in hotels for the contract-- my brother and daughter took care of the house. We came home permanently and we had words with my brother and he moved out-- he and my daughter had been badmouthing (adding to my venting to my mother when I was upset) about my husband and it all blew up!
I was stressed! I had to have an emergency hysterectomy (which ended my sexuality and my dream of having his baby!), I was a pressure cooker and it was building.
My husband traveled to Texas and came back with a car, bought by his sister-in-law (who wanted my husband) and I figured he was going to leave me. We were losing our home because no other contracts/jobs in my husband's field were coming in.
My daughter moved out after a huge fight with her stepfather-- she just blew up and said "f*&%" you to both of us and left.
She slapped a restraining order against my husband for her and every member of our family and friends. I called to ask her why and she told me "OH, I found information that (your husband) is dangerous and harms women." When I questioned her, she told me she would get it for me, but that I needed to leave. I fell apart. I packed what clothes I could take and started to take my Boxer puppy and she said "Oh you have to leave her. I will find her a good home." My mind just went blank and I was like a limp doll on autopilot. She drove me to a hotel far away and dumped me. It is a long, sad story after that, but my family abandoned me there, not caring what happened to me. I left my husband with no note, no idea of where I went. He eventually found me-- I had had a nervous breakdown. He took me back and nurtured me and nursed me back to health (I was very sick when he found me).
My daughter would not have any contact with me when I got back with him. She NEVER explained what she had found on my husband. She told me "Oh I was afraid he would hurt you or you would hurt yourself"-- When he left one time, I threatened to cut my wrists.

She has since married and moved to the midwest-- her husband is in the Air Force. She is 6, almost 7 months pregnant with my first grandchild and has said I will never see her (yes it is a girl! I had to be devious to find that out! She didn't tell me, or even want me to know she is pregnant!)
She tells me that unless I leave my husband of 4 yrs, she will never have anything to do with me, nor will she let me near whatever children she may have!
What can I do?? I don't know her phone number or her address, although I still have her email she has always had and her myspace. She won't talk to me. My mother will not help me. I have not talked to my brother since I left home.
Please someone, tell me what, if anything I can do to get through to her. My heart is broken and it is affecting my life, my marriage. I am so sad! Please if you know something that can be done, help me. I am all prayed out!

There is a newer therapy for those with BPD, and has had some success, according to recent research. I spoke with a psychiatrist about this type of therapy a few weeks ago, and the problem, at least here, are a lack of therapists familiar with this type of work.

It may be something that is available where you are, or at least it is another avenue to gain information:

Dialectical Behavior Therapy For Patients with Borderline Personality Disorder And Drug-Dependence (http://mentalhealth.about.com/cs/personaltydisordrs/a/dbtbrief.htm)